The Red Sox will meet with the agent for C.J. Wilson and Roy Oswalt at the winter meetings in Dallas next week, reports Michael Silverman of The Boston Herald (on Twitter). Both pitchers are represented by Bob Garber.
Most of the recent reports involving the Red Sox have focused on their now completed managerial search or their still ongoing closer search, but the club is also looking to solidify its starting staff. Clay Buchholz will return from injury to join Josh Beckett and Jon Lester atop the rotation, but both Daisuke Matsuzaka and John Lackey are out following Tommy John surgery. Alfredo Aceves figures to be given a chance to start, but Boston still needs to add depth beyond those four.
The Rangers, Nationals, and Marlins are said to be pursuing Wilson, who is looking for something close to a six-year deal worth $120MM. The Rockies had shown the most interest in Oswalt so far this offseason, but they've recently dropped out of the running.
And the Phillies didn’t offer Oswalt arbitration why?
Because they didn’t want to pay him $16 million next year?
Yea? Do they give out NTC’s in arbitration now? On a one year deal, someone would trade for him, and the Phillies could have gotten something in return, as opposed to nothing.
Yes but they would have to eat a fair amount of the contract in order to trade him.
Couldn’t risk him accepting and having to pay another pitcher 15+ million. That would mean 3 at 15+ and Hamels around 14. That’s just ridiculous.
But adding a pitcher who will likely pitch less than 60 innings at $13M makes sense?
We both know it doesn’t. Thats why the Sox let him go…
I agree to an extent…all contracts today seem to be HEAVILY bloated. But whereas Oswalt has seen his better days pitching, has back issues, and is older, Papelbon is in his prime and a top 3 closer in baseball. I’m not justifying Ruben’s decision, but it makes a lot more sense than giving a pitcher who is your number 4 starter 16-18 million for a year when he is no longer the pitcher he was just three years ago.
The Papelbon contract is baffling because of the years, not because of the average salary.
If Crawford returns to normal and I have a feeling he will, the Red Sox sign Wilson, and Valentine gets control of that clubhouse, look out.
I’d rather the Red Sox re-sign Ortiz and convert him to a pitcher than give Wilson the 6/120 he’s looking for, or even the 5/85 he’s more likely to get.
or even the 4/$62mm which is what he is worth, at best.
At 4 years I might start to consider it, but he still wouldn’t be my first choice (or probably in my top 5 choices).
I’d love Oswalt on a 2/$24mm contract with a club option. The last thing the Sox need is to overpay for CJ Wilson and have yet another bad contract on the books until 2016.
Yep.. Oswalt over 2 years, even if paying him market rate Like
15-16m or so is a far better option than giving Wilson the 4-6 years he is thinking of and Oswalt has more than the track record, not to mention crucial game success stories to back his getting it up.
Oswalt is another of those salary redirects would rather see Boston use with whatever they could save if Ortiz refuses arbitration, they just have to wait until 12/7.
Red Sox most likley to trade for pitcher or sign some other pticher They are asking for big disaster if they give out another Lackey contract (or more in Wilson’s case) to not an ace pitcher. Yanks finally realized that another Burnett contract to a guy like Wilson is not worth it.
Man, this Red Sox team is all over the place right now. Is this an intentional sinking of the ship? I haven’t been able to figure out any, almost none of the moves they’ve made in the last year or two and even now with new management, the trend seems to continue. Perhaps this meeting has more to do with Oswalt than Wilson, which Boston fans can only hope for. I don’t see Oswalt signing with the Sox however. Its just not a great match for either party. Wilson, well, I think that speaks for itself, unless they want Lackey 2.0. In a time when it never hurts to “meet” with an agent, this is just a waste of time for the Red Sox. Poor asset allocation and poor time management.
back up your claim statistically that Wilson will be ‘Lackey 2.0″
That isn’t really fair to ask. It wasn’t possible to predict Lackey 1.0, how would you predict 2.0? What I think IS fair to say is that paying a pitcher, who hasn’t proven himself in the AL East, big money over a lot of years has the potential for being a disaster.
Dude you make no sense. It’s their job to look at every possiblity. You see what you want to see. It’s not poor “asset allocation” at all. Do you want them to just not even check in on two top pitchers when they need pitching bad? Your comment is just bewildering.
Yankee fan, obviously. So you’re saying Cashman didn’t even bother talking to Wilson’s/Oswalt’s agent? Just because of his great time management? I think it’s any GM’s duty to at least ask about a big market FA even if they don’t have much interest in them.
Yeah Boston has had a roller coaster of a Offseason so far but this has nothing to do with that. You insult the Sox whenever you have the chance.
“So you’re saying Cashman didn’t even bother talking to Wilson’s/Oswalt’s agent?”
Actually yeah, in case you didn’t read the other day, Cashman rejected a meeting.
More power to him though, but I still don’t think that at least meeting with their agents is a bad idea nor doesn’t attribute to the rocky offseason they’ve had so far.
And another thing, I’m a bit tired of the “Yankee fan, obviously” remarks. Its not always about my team vs yours. Sometimes its about the business of baseball and regardless of my disdain for anything Red Sox, my opinion has been they are not well run in recent years and they continuously make poor roster moves. I’m allowed that opinion and its not really far off from the opinions of many others.
I don’t know how going in to 2011 as clear cut favorites in the AL can happen from ‘continuously making poor roster moves and not being run well’
To be precise, Cashman rejected a request for a visit to Yankee Stadium. I don’t think that is exactly an equivalent to rejecting the possibility of discussion at the Winter Meetings, or elsewhere. It certainly does mean that he’s not interested in signing CJ. These guys are basically going to be operating turnstyles at their hotel room doors this week. Practically everyone sits down with everyone, at least once, for 10-15 mins., just to gauge interest. Those who get invited back are given serious time and consideration. One never knows when that same agent will be in a position to return the consideration that he’s now being extended.
Well thats just stupid!!!! Considering the Yankee pitching is worse than boston’s all last season………hey what was the yankees record against Boston last year?? What was Cupcake’s? We had one bad month but we beat up on NY most of the year and if we got in we would have beat them like we did all year……..I really donnt think boston is going to sink……they have had 1 full season to play together. You add 2 decent pitchers and a power right handed bat we are way better than the old nursing of a lineup the yankees have. Hey there pitching is really bad right now……after CC there are some big ???? Hughes? Hasnt pitched a full season yet……Nova??? Still really young and was decent but not a #2 yet……..Garcia????? Whats he like 40??? Burnett??? Do I really need to question that??? You yankee fans talk a lot of smack but you have a lot more problems on your hands right now…….like a 37 year old playing ss……like a 36 year old steroid user playing 3rd……..and Texeira he strikes out way too much…..the upside for boston is they will fix there holes…..the yankees they have a lot of them
lulz, where to start with this silliness.
1- Head to head meetings, yes Boston won it, but if you didn’t notice, they lost to the Yankees in the 2nd half of the season and lost 4 of the final 6 games to them. And they would have lost all 6 if not for 2 fortunate extra inning wins for Boston.
2- Boston with the better pitching? HA. Yankees had the 4th best ERA in the AL, the Red Sox were 9th. The Yankees starters had the 5th best ERA, the Red Sox were 9th. The Yankees had the the best bullpen ERA in the AL, and 4th best in MLB. The Red Sox were 4th in the AL and 13th in MLB.
3- Yankees pitching is bad? At the moment they have 5 starters for next year but probably will get someone else, the Red Sox have 3. 1 is coming off an injury and 1 is inconsistent. The only starter you have that has been consistent is Lester.
Yes yes, the Yankees have a lot more problems. I guess winning 97 games was not enough, compared to 89 for Boston.
Yankees offense doesn’t really have any holes. Texiera is going to drop in the order next year and bat 5th and will still give 35/100 which is what all teams would ask from a #5 batter in the lineup.
Are you just bitter because the Sox collapsed and the Yankees didn’t?
Nice username, sweetcaroline2011? You must have came here in February when the Sox were in the process of booking a World Series parade.
I gave you a like just for the fact you put so much effort into responding to a commenter that wrote that using a lego computer. It’s very evident he’s a young fan, so I can’t really faulty him much for knowing, uh, absolutely nothing yet about the business of baseball. He was more enamored by the Yankees 4-11 record in season.
Starting pitching I’ll give you because all of the peripheral stats agree with ERA, but I have to disagree about the bullpens; literally any other stat you want to look at aside from ERA has the Red Sox bullpen actually pitching better than the Yankees ‘pen: tERA, SIERA, FIP, xFIP, K/BB, WAR, BAA, WHIP…
Fair to say, although I don’t use WAR for pitchers on Fangraphs really at all. But I would have ot say by far the Yankees had the better back end of the bullpen. Bard I think had a good year but he lost 9 games (yes you can use W-L for setup-men and closers because they have 1 duty), and I’d say Papelbon and Rivera were about even.
Papelbon actually had the 2nd worst LOB% amongst all full time closers. But his K/BB was amazing.
Try not to stress too much over just meeting with an agent. In an offseason that goes on for months it doesn’t hurt to spend an hour or two with any given agent.
Most teams are “all over the place” this time of year. That’s what free agency is like, teams talk to everyone’s agents, particularly teams with multiple starting positions open.
As far as the moves they’ve made in the last year or two: two years ago they needed a starting pitcher, a 3B, and a SS, so they signed Lackey, Beltre, and Scutaro. Lackey was the biggest name FA starting pitcher that year, and they knew he wouldn’t be an Ace, but they had no reason to believe he would be anything worse than a good #3; Beltre was an outstanding acquisition, providing them with 7.0 WAR and the picks that got them Blake Swihart and Jackie Bradley Junior; Scutaro has been nothing but a steady, reliable SS for them and was a solid pick up.
Then this past off season they needed either a 3B or a 1B so they traded for Gonzalez in a deal that people were claiming was so lopsided that it was collusion and the only reason that Hoyer went to SD. They also needed an outfielder, and knew they were going to need another in a year, so they signed the biggest name FA outfielder available in Crawford and despite a poor year this year he still has the ability to be one of the top outfielders in the game.
Century…
This is just a story. You know good and well the Steinbrener duet have yet to make an appearance on stage this off season to make their signing. Wilson fits their mold and you know what I mean by that also.
Boston is not going to sign Wilson and you know it, but Steinbrener’s, over Cashman’s head? Never rule anything out.
You may disagree, but I think the Red Sox Might need Wilson more than the Yankees do.
Well, I think that the Red Sox need starting pitching worse than the Yankees do, but I think Wilson would make more sense for the Yankees than he would for the Red Sox if that makes any sense. And not even because the Yankees spend more money.
For the Red Sox they already have four out of five rotation spots full until at least 2014 (they only have two open for one year since Lackey will be back in ’13), so signing Wilson would lock up their entire rotation for the next 3+ years, giving them zero flexibility in the future, and blocking any of their pitching prospects who could be ready before then. I don’t believe the Yankees have the same issue long-term, but I’m not as familiar with their contract situations, so correct me if I’m wrong.
Who is the Sox 4th starter? Aceves is not projected to be in the rotation, and Lackey and Dice-K are out for the year aren’t they? It’s hard to say who will need him in the long run because that depends on when Betances and Banuelos are ready to pitch in the MLB full time, unless they get traded, and if they do it’s certainly going to be for a starting pitcher.
That’s just it, they don’t have a 4th starter this year but Lackey is coming back next year and will be here through 2015, so if they sign Wilson to a long term deal their rotation is full, and wont have an opening until at least 2015 (Beckett and Lester’s contracts end after 2014).
I do know what you mean. It is always possible the call comes from ownership versus the GM, but after just re-upping for 3 years, I have to imagine Cashman has 100% authority this time around. Anything is possible and I think the rejection to meet with Wilson was more chess than checkers, if you get what I mean. In terms of Boston, they really need to focus their efforts elsewhere. Sure it doesn’t hurt to talk, but my opinion, which is just one, is that they would be better vested in talking with the agents for Edwin Jackson, Mahlom, and really a bag full of others or comparable ability. I also don’t believe a trade is the best route for the Sox at this time also.
Well, I don’t think Cashman’s contract situation changed anything, but perhaps they learned their lesson based on the mediocre results they achieved at phenomenal cost. Cashman is the consummate professional. Its his job to weigh the cost vs. the value of a signing. History says he had that analysis correct last year, and the Steinbrenners did not.
We should find out this off season and yep.. U R right there with him signing a 3 year, LT deal that imagine that SHOULD have been the 1st thing he set in place with them, problem could be is IF they will honor it in when THEY thing they know better.
NY deserves better than that, you know it and most knowledgeable fans know it. they have (so far) not made 1 even decent $$$ wise deal yet.
let Cash make them please?? Can hear the echos every time they are announced.
edit
I love how everyone just talks in fact that CJ Wilson will definitely flop.
Is he going to be overpaid? Yea probably, but that doesn’t mean he’s going to be a terrible pitcher moving forward, comparing him to AJ burnette or John Lackey is completely baseless
I understand that some people don’t want the contract, but that’s independent, or atleast should be, of his performance.
Also his stats from last year are pretty darn good. People saw the playoffs and just decided he wasn’t good. Small sample size people.
Speaking of small sample size… Wilson has had how many good seasons to earn himself the “really good pitcher” title? One? Arguably two? And that merits giving him a 6 year contract?
When he gets up to 4 or 5 good seasons I think that it would be fair to say that he probably won’t flop but coming off of the limited amount of good seasons combined with potentially changing teams and playing with the pressure of proving he is worth the contract he signs… let’s just say that I wouldn’t bet the farm on him winning the Cy Young Award next year.
I think you’re losing sight of the conversation. There is reason to worry that Wilson could flop considering he’s only been a starter for 2 seasons after years in the bullpen. It doesn’t account for everything, since he does have a few pitches and can be a solid starter, but who knows if he hits a point of dead-arm or worse a serious injury. These are legit concerns. And yes, he will be severely overpaid and he’ll be looked at for his contract and nothing else, like Lackey and Burnett. If you wanted to put all three on a piece of paper in front of me with a price tag and said pick one. Burnett would be the clear choice based on pure stuff.
“Who knows if he hits a point of dead-arm or worse a serious injury”
Logic fail. This is a concern for ALL pitchers, not just CJ. If anything, CJ could actually claim that he is less likely to run into such problems since he has only two years as a starter and, thus, less mileage on his arm than other typical SPs around his age. I can understand the concern for overpaying him and I really don’t want the Rangers to bring him back for that exact same reason but going beyond that to suggest that he is a sure bet to bust or to get injured is baseless and absurd. There are precious few SPs in the league who can claim they were better than him during the last two years.
Logic fail. While I agree that you can’t base acquiring a player on whether he will get injured I don’t think that you can say that he has less wear on his arm because he has only been a starter for 2 years. Appearing in 44, 66, 50, 74 games as a reliever along with all of the times he would have warmed up without actually pitching in the game might have taxed his arm more than starting once every 5 days and throwing a side session in between starts.
Yeah it’s pretty funny considering that no team outside of the Tigers, Yankees, and the Angels had a better pitcher than him in 2011.
Well, you forgot the Dodgers and the Phillies (who had two), but yeah, he’s been a top 10 pitcher since becoming a starter.
I meant in the AL and forgot to include that part. If you include NL, yeah there are a few more teams that had a better pitcher than him.
Ah, makes sense.
Most free agents are over paid, it comes with the territory. If you don’t want to over pay you shouldn’t go after the top ones.
It’s been strange not hearing about the Yanks and Red Sox connected to all the top FA’s so far. About time they let someone else have some fun. I’m not too sold on either of these guys for Boston though. I just don’t see Oswalt staying healthy, and with all the injuries and inneffectiveness they had last year, they need a guy who can take the ball every fifth day, first and foremost.
Last year was the first time in 8 consecutive seasons that Oswalt pitched less than 180 innings. It was his first and only year in which he was sidelined with an injury. He’s not injury prone and his numbers are right in line with a solid middle of the rotation pitcher. I think he’s a pretty solid bet at age 34 to give whoever signs him a solid 180 – 200 innings.
I think middle of the rotation stuff is the “safe” expectation from Oswalt, but he’s shown that he can give a team top of the rotation stuff.
I’m actually kinda thinking that if I were in charge I’d be looking to get Oswalt and bring back Bedard to fill out the rotation. The nature of Oswalt’s back issues is concerning, and Bedard is a walking injury magnet, so you’d want to have a couple of reasonable replacements who are able to step in and fill rotation spots; but when all of them were on the field a 1-5 of Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, Oswalt, Bedard would be killer.
The only one in that group that hasn’t been injured is Lester. It might be a killer for the Sox.
Having been injured and being prone to injury are two completely different things.
Bring back Wake for his 18th straight year?
nope. no lackey daisuke or wake starts for at least half a season. it will be glorious
I’m open to both Oswalt and Bedard, but I think that they’re both solid performers, not willing to compete for a spot in the rotation. Neither would accept a minor league contract. We need at least two guys who will take an MILB contract and compete for a fifth spot against Aceves. That would give us the depth we need to go forward in the event of injuries. For that reason (to keep competition open for the fifth spot), I wouldn’t re-sign Bedard. I’d just plug Oswalt in at No. 4, and sign two or three 5th starter candidates to MILB contracts.
I think with those two both in the rotation, and Aceves and Doubront both in the bullpen as long relief/swing men, all you would really need is a guy or two to stash in AAA just in case of a disaster like this year.
If only one of them goes down you could piece it together with Aceves and Doubront; if both go down, and it’s only for a short time, you could get by with both of them in the rotation; the problem would come if they both go down for an extended period, or if they are both out and a third pitcher goes down too.
the sox have a lot of money to spend now that i think about it.
While it may seem like the Red Sox rotation has been demolished with both Dice-K and Lackey out due to big time surgery it actually might be addition by subtraction in a way. Those two are nowhere near as strong as the “surviving” three and adding CJ Wilson to that mix could make the Red Sox a very scary team this upcoming year
I agree with everything you said, including Wilson making them a very scary team, however I hope they don’t sign Wilson simply because of the contract. 5-6 years to a pitcher on the wrong side of 30 is almost always a bad idea.
Even for a few years it just seems like that kind of rotation is worth it. How long is Beckett under contract btw?
Beckett is under contract through the 2014 season.
Oswalt is a NL-lifer he is gonna suck just as bad as Penny & Smoltz did.
Penny actually put up 2.1 WAR in the partial year that he pitched in the AL. If Oswalt could give us 3 WAR out of the #4 pitching slot I’d take that all day.
Is 7-8 with 5.68 ERA and lousy stats really a 2.1 WAR? Or is that including the 4-1 2.68 ERA he posted once back in the NL?
His 6-9 6.27 ERA record the season before with the Dodgers is more telling.
To be fair Smoltz was 42 and coming off a season where he had made only 6 appearances due to injury. Roy is 34 and 23 starts last season.
Oh God not this crap. Smoltz was already washed up and Brad Penny was awful in his season with the Dodgers before joining the Red Sox. Barry Zito and Edwin Jackson are the reverse of that story. As much as I loathe the DH, you AL fanboys will never stop till the DH is expanded in both leagues.
Wow, your last sentence really came out of nowhere.
You went from god to crap to the DH! HAHAHA!!
I have Wilson going to the Nats, and Oswalt is a big ? I think the Sox could be in trouble if Beckett gets hurt again, and Buckholz is coming off an injury. Pitching is just too hard to predict. The Sox went from the best team in baseball to the biggest collapse of all time last year. That being said, the Sox next two starters, a right fielder, and some relief pitchers, plus a closer. Cherrington has alot of work to do.
I do think the Sox pitching is in a bit of a hole. Maybe it will be better than teh Yankees, but at teh moment the Yankees have a 5 man rotation (although I doubt it will be theirs but we shall see), the Red Sox only have 3.
With that said, I’m almost sure both these teams will acquire a free agent and/or trade for somebody for a starting pitcher since I don’t see them being all that confident with their active rotations.
Wilson or Oswalt is not the answer. Sox need to step up and trade for a Gio Gonzalez/Haren/Garza or at the very least a guy like Danks/Saunders.
Aaron Harang is a great pitcher that no one is mentioning.. Pitched better than Oswalt last year with no run support
Aaron Harang is a great pitcher that no one is mentioning.. Pitched better than Oswalt last year with no run support
Bring in Oswalt and Madson? No.
Oswalt won’t stay healthy and Madson will be a vast overpay. I agree that we need to bring back Ortiz. If we sign a pitcher, I hope it’s Beuhrle.
if he can be kept to a 2-year deal, oswalt is probably the best option on the SP market
buehrle’s stuff is not going to play well in fenway. 200 reliable innings would be nice, but no need to pay out that kind of money for a #4
Because Colon worked out so well last time.
The difference is that Crawford has a track record of being a very good player while Figgins had a track record of being mediocre and then put up one huge season before going to the Mariners.
In other words Figgins was reverting back to about what he had been for most of his career, while Crawford would have to become a completely different player than he ever has been to continue sucking that bad.
The problem is that Figgins practically crippled the M’s. The Sawx will barley be affected. They have the money to take risks and have it blow up.
Very good is a high praise for someone who can’t hit lefties
Hits worse against lefties =/= can’t hit lefties; he has a .301 wOBA against lefties, and .348 against righties, for his career and basically every lefty in the game hits worse against lefty pitchers.
Platoon splits don’t necessarily keep players from becoming “very good” or even great players: from ’04 through ’10 Crawford averaged 5.0 WAR per season, splits be damned.
C.J. Wilson is NOT lousy pitcher. He had a horrible post season. He’s put pretty solid numbers the last two seasons. However, he looks to get over paid, and probably will be over paid. That’s the only resemblance he has to Lackey.
The Sox have been good in spite of the players they sign though, not because of them.
It’s the Pedroia’s, and Ellsbury’s, and Lester’s who were drafted and developed by the team; along with the Beckett’s and Gonzalez’s who were traded for with players drafted by the team, that keep them in contention every year.
Buehrle has thrown a LOT of innings for a LOT of years. people would be wise to begin to wonder (not you of course) when that tank is going to start running on empty anyway.
Agreed a junkballer type like Buehrle might not also play up very well at Fenway.. He reminds me an awful lot of “Iron” Mike Torrez….
Ha, fair enough
Well our definitions of mediocre are vastly different then..
Since becoming a starter he’s been a top ten pitcher in baseball.
Agreed.
I agree, but I think Buehrle would be more for the money than Wilson.
CJ is good at working thru a game even when he doesn’t have his best stuff – to bad for us that there is not more completion for FA SP THIS YEAR or we would be able to keep him – if the $ is there he has to take it- may not be another opportunity
Competition