The Rangers have been discussing long-term contract extensions with several core players this offseason, but talks with one of them have been put on hold indefinitely. Josh Hamilton and GM Jon Daniels confirmed to reporters today that talks about a new deal have been tabled for the time being.
"We'll put that on the back-burner for now," said the outfielder while Daniels noted there are "more important things to deal with." The quotes come courtesy of CBSSports.com's Danny Knobler and The Fort Worth Star-Telegram's Jeff Wilson (Twitter links).
The "more important things" Daniels referred to would be Hamilton's admitted relapse from his drug and alcohol addiction recovery earlier this week, which Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports says could cost him millions. The club was already eyeing a conservative contract while Hamilton's side reportedly had Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder money in mind. Hamilton has said he will not discuss a new contract once Spring Training begins, and he can become a free agent after this coming season.
This is the second time the two sides have tabled extension talks this offseason. Negotiations were put on hold while the club worked out new deals with their arbitation-eligible players and Yu Darvish a few weeks ago.
Whoever signs Josh needs to put a provision in their contract that says if he relapses hard his contract will void. If he ever fails another drug test he is banned for life.
I agree with the first part. But doesn’t he have one more oppurtunity before banishment.
Hmm, I cant find that he failed two tests but I thought I read in his book that he cant fail another which is why he was being drug tested 3 times a week for a while.
Yeah he still gets tested 3 times a week.
do you remember reading in his book about not being able to fail another drug test? I cant remember
It’s a drug test though, not alcohol.
He failed one when he was with the Devil Rays. Then he was suspended by the team and never really came back.
His actions need not our condemning. Leave the man alone.
nonsense, everyone is perfect and Josh should be held to a higher standard and should be condemned and judged for his actions.
When Josh learns to be perfect like everyone else, then people will like him
I agree
Hear hear!
I’ll drink to that!
I support Josh 100%. Alcoholism is not a habit, it’s a serious disease that isn’t easily cured. He’s bound to have relapses like this but come on, the dude has avoided every champagne party in the past two years. He deserves nothing but our respect and admiration. All the stress of being a big league ball player and the tragedy he had to go through last year? I’m surprised he’s lasted this long.
I agree. Long before this I wondered what’d feel like to toss the ball to the gentleman in the stands that made him reach over, ultimately contributing to the man’s death. Past history or not, his fault or not, it’s still a heavy burden for anybody.
Alcoholism is not a disease. A disease is an abnormal condition affecting the body of an organism. Cancer is a disease. AIDS is a disease. TB is a disease. Alcoholism is a choice. It can lead to disease like heart disease and strokes but it itself isn’t one.
I am not making light of Josh’s fight against alcoholism. It could be linked to an addictive nature or something sociological. I am sure his struggle is massive. I am just saying that we have to stop calling it a disease.
I do hope he gets better and beats his alcoholism though. For his sake and the sake of his family.
No offense intended, but I’m curious whether or not you’ve never witnessed someone with a serious addiction or you have and were deeply hurt by that person (yes, this is pop psychology).
There is a choice involved but until a person has seen another start to detox from a serious addiction then you can’t understand. I’ve seen enough in my life to not judge a person fighting an addict. Is it a disease, I’ll leave that up to a semantic argument. But I’ve seen enough people in my life to say a serious addiction is up there in the category of disease.
As I said I am not belittling his struggle and his family’s struggle. What I object to is the use of the word disease. I know I have an addictive personality so I stay away from drugs. I am 38 and I have never used illegal drugs. I do drink but I am able to control my drinking by only doing it socially. I never drink at home or alone. I do not abuse drugs or alcohol because I chose not to do drugs or overuse alcohol. Not everyone can do that and I appreciate that. But it is not a disease.
I find that by saying it is a disease people tend to dismiss their own personal responsibility and say that since it’s a disease they are not in charge of what they do. Instead of coming to the realization that they ARE in control of what they do and can do something about it. Not a higher power, not those around them. But they themselves. That is what I believe.
You really underrate the addiction to alcohol and drugs and overrate people’s power to choose.
Actually you underrate people’s power to chose. Everyone has a choice of what they do. They just have to recognize that.
Note: I’m not attacking your opinion, just making a counterpoint, if anything I say sounds like a direct attack I mean it more of a debate point.
I think you overrate choice. Nature and nurture do play a role in how and why we choose. I agree there is some personal responsibility but I believe you overrate that ideal. Choice is not an absolute.
I know it’s not a personal attack. We generally agree on baseball.
But I do believe in personal choice. There is some nature and nurture of course, I don’t deny it. But I am tired of people who don’t take responsibility. It’s the government fault. It’s my parent’s fault. It’s not me, it’s the demon drink or drugs. Just a bit tired of it.
When has Josh Hamilton ever deflected responsibility?? In his book the general theme of it is I MADE MY OWN CHOICES.
When people call it a disease, its because it is.. There is a reason why some people do a line of a coke at parties for fun on weekends in college and move on from it, and other people do it once and it instantly takes control of their life.
you can’t be that naive to honestly believe that in the midst of a drug addiction a user is making a conscious decision to destroy themselves by continuing.
Personal choice, if it were all personal choice and addiction is not a disease then how come babies can be born addicted to crack? Seems like a disease to me, those babies didn’t choose anything and are diseased or “addicted.”
I understand where you are coming from, and in fact I used to view addiction in the very same way. However, I have since learned that substance abuse is widely held to be a disease in psychological & medical circles nowadays (I draw on the knowledge I gained from when I had a job working with substance abusers and their issues a few years back. It was a major eye-opener).
While nothing is conclusive yet, researchers are finding evidence indicating that genetic predisposition seems to be involved. Researchers have also found that after a time the substance being abused gets incorporated into the body’s chemistry and replaces other bodily chemicals. In effect the body becomes dependent on it in a way that bypasses “personal choice.”
Have I ever used? Never. However I have definitely come to understand that there is much more involved in battling addiction than just “will-power.” In any case, it is a very sad problem to have.
That’s kind of hilarious. “I’ve never done a drug and have never drank to excess in my life, so i know exactly what it’s like to be an addict.” You are a joke.
ummm…you are kind of wrong when it comes to quitting alcohol as being something to choose to do. I hope you’re familiar with delirium tremens which is the most severe form of alcohol withdrawal. it is potentially fatal, and its effects on someone is debilitating. Even if you have a normal alcohol withdrawal you’re still subject to seizures and convulsions, as well as the fever, and flu like symptoms, but just not as life threatening. If you want to stop drinking you better be able to afford a hospital that can ween you off with a benzo or go to a clinic that’s prepared to deal with it.
Crack babies choose to abuse crack is what you are saying.
Let’s see. The entire psychological community, or random guy from the Internet? Entire medical profession, or random guy from the Internet?
No, sorry, I’m going to have to go ahead and go with “alcoholism is a disease” on this one.
Yes, there is personal responsibility involved. In fact, that kind of responsibility (with help and support from others) is the only thing that one can do about it if one wants to remain sober. But no, that doesn’t mean it’s all a matter of willpower. The fact that you talk in a subsequent post about how you control your addictive personality by only drinking socially should be commended, both for your realization of the way your brain works and your steps to avoid negative consequences. But due respect, it is simply proof that you are not an alcoholic.
There is no such thing as one drink for an alcoholic. No such thing as “only drinking socially.” That is the disease. It’s why recovering alcoholics can’t drink–ever–not socially, not once or twice every once in a while. If that’s all they did, nobody would give two craps and they wouldn’t label it a relapse (or alcoholism to begin with). But they can’t. One drink is never one drink for an alcoholic.
Further, addiction itself is a disease on top of being an alcoholic. It is a real, chemical dependence so strong that people can literally DIE from detoxing from certain drugs. Some drugs form stronger addictions than others, some aren’t addictive at all, but it doesn’t change that basic fact.
People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. The very real possibility of serious medical problems, acute pain and even death when trying NOT to do a drug anymore should be plenty of evidence of what the facts are surrounding these issues if the decades of science and medicine aren’t.
You don’t have to take my word for it. Look at addictioninfo website and check to see if they think it’s a disease. It says it isn’t.
>It’s why recovering alcoholics can’t drink–ever–not socially, not once or twice every once in a while.
Actually, uh, that’s not right. There have been three major studies that include in part or in whole information about the ability for recovered alcoholics to drink. All of them showed that it was possible for many recovered alcoholics to drink in moderation.
They also showed that abstaining completely was the far safer choice – with one showing that attempting to drink in moderation resulted in nearly 30% more relapsed than abstaining – but they all showed that one quarter to one half of recovered alcoholics can control their drinking and keep it to safe levels. The only exception to that is that one of the studies contained two groups being followed. One of people who began abusing in college, and the other of people who began abusing at an even younger age while in poverty. The group that began abusing at a young age and lived in poverty had next to no success with people attempting to drink in moderation.
So while I applaud your quest to enlighten people of the facts, please verify your own statements before you make them. Read into the NIAAA studies from 01, 04-05, etc.
Alcoholism= disease.
Do you feel the same way about obesity?
I think I know how to end the choice/disease debate. It’s a choice to get started but it becomes a disease that’s very difficult to drop
But you can’t stop or start a disease. It is something that happens to you. You can’t stop or start cancer. You can’t stop or start AIDS. That is my point.
You can, however, make choices that lead to disease. For example, choosing to smoke can lead to cancer, sharing needles or unprotected sex can lead to AIDS.
Just like how making the choice to abuse drugs/alcohol can lead to an actual disease such as heart disease.
no offense to you. but you’re stating an opinion that is widely considered to be false..
A disease doesn’t always have to be something as concrete as cancer or AIDS
there are mental diseases, physical diseases, some you are born with, some you develop through decisions or bad choices, and some just happen.
The real debate is not whether alcoholism/drug addiction is a disease or not, but whether its preventable or not. The ‘addict’ trait is very much a real condition, it just has different ways of showing.. Some people hoard, some people wash their hands thousands of times a day, and some people become addicted to substances..
Belittling Josh’s condition is borderline offensive to anyone who has had to overcome an addiction.
Alcoholism is considered to be a mental disease, and could be considered a psychosocial disease also.
Having said that, alcoholism is a disease because I say so. End of story.
well said.
No you dont star it. You drinkas every person but unlike the others you cant stop
Yes.Diabetes can cause it. Endocrines problems can cause it.
disease – (figurative) a particular quality, habit, or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people.
“Disease” can be interpreted different ways. Alcoholism, in my opinion, can be more dangerous because you can’t see it, like cancer. Yes, it can lead to other things, but it affects people differently, however it mostly affects people psychologically, making people make choices, and say and do things that wouldn’t normally happen.
I don’t care what you call alcoholism, but I think people labeling it a disease gives a proper mindset of just how dangerous it can be.
“Alcoholism is not a disease. A disease is an abnormal condition
affecting the body of an organism. Cancer is a disease. AIDS is a
disease. TB is a disease. Alcoholism is a choice. It can lead to
disease like heart disease and strokes but it itself isn’t one. ”
why are you only focusing on alcoholism, josh is a former addict, as a former addict, any mind altering substance gets banned, including alcohol..
In any case, you’re completely wrong.
Wrong by far. Addictions have organic origin. And alcoholism is classified as as disease.
It is nobody choice
I really hope Hamilton really just overcomes this bump in the road with the relapse. His book was really moving….and I am sure his story has helped numerous people.
Serious stuff… God speed & best wishes Josh; the game, let alone the contract, come in a distant second.
best of luck to hamilton battling his addiction. i know alot of people admire the strides he has made so far, but its a never ending battle. if your lucky enough to not have an addiction or know someone who has one, then you have no clue about how much of a daily struggle it is. and to those of you bashing him for relapsing, shame on you. just because hes a professional athlete, doesnt make him any less human than me or you.
I would love to see the public reaction if Miguel Cabrera was caught drinking in a bar. Something tells me it wouldn’t be this, “I hope god helps him with his demons” BS
Josh Hamilton needs guidance and hopefully he’ll be able to confront his demons and beat them once and for all. I for one wish him all the best in his attempt to do so.
With C.J. Wilson off the team, however, having essentially gone home to SoCal to pitch for the Angels, Josh Hamilton will need a better support system (Wilson had the same lifestyle as Hamilton). That said, if there is any good on this—that he drank a little bit is all that it is.
I don’t think CJ and Josh ever hung out together. I know Hamilton and Kinsler hang out, but never heard CJ hanging out with anyone. He was more of a loner.
I don’t think CJ and Josh ever hung out together. I know Hamilton and Kinsler hang out, but never heard CJ hanging out with anyone. He was more of a loner.
Miguel Cabrera is not a known drug addict, and who knows if he is even an alcoholic. he might just lose control when he drinks. There is something completely different with being an ex-addict/alcoholic even if you disagree. Two completely different things. Josh needs all the support he can get and yeah, he needs people to baby him. Sad reality but thats how it goes. Good luck to him.
I agree, and Miguel has plenty of other problems, like hitting his wife. Josh only has hurt himself
He did not hit his wife. She hit him
That’s because they are very different situations. Cabrera has had a minor drinking problem. People like to freak out and exagerate it to the fullest extent because he got a DUI and got slapped by his wife. On the other hand, Hamilton had a very serious drug and drink problem. He was in the gutter. Cabrera’s minor drink problem never affected his on field performance and Hamilton missed 2003-2006.
“Cabrera’s minor drink problem never affected his on field performance…”
Please don’t tell me you honestly believe this. You think he was good to go after the 2009 incident? Or after he was at the Hard Rock Casino in Tampa until 5 am the night before Garza’s no hitter?
Cesar Carrillo was the one who got arrested in Tampa. Not Cabrera. Carrillo has never pitched for Detroit and it did not occur the night before the Garza no-hitter. I have no idea why you would make up a story like that. I think it speaks pretty low to your character when you start making things up to slander someones name.
By the way, the thing in 2009, occured the night before game 162 vs. the White Sox. Detroit won that game. And he went 2-5 with a homer and an RBI double in game 163.
Still waiting for Miggy’s book or otherwise spilling his guts about his struggles. Other than that, nice pose for the mugshot. Sure, Hamilton, Straw, and to a greater degree Doc Gooden have had just as bad go’s of it as Cabrerra, but they also have humbly tried to make a difference.
I don’t understand why he would think he could get Prince/Pujols money. He’s had a known drug problem which could come into play and unlike Hamilton, Prince/Pujols play everyday. Not 130 games per season, but 155-162.
Yeah…. there’s no way he gets even close to Fielder/Pujols money. When he’s healthy he’s as good as anyone, but too many variables with him that can go bad.
he doesn’t do the negotiating…
I know… I don’t see what your saying.
Keep on fighting them demons Josh.
Josh Hamilton needs Tim Tebow
Don’t bring God’s susposed Golden Child into this
It’s obviously his agent’s job to say he deserves ~$200M but nobody and I mean literally nobody would probably even go over ~$100M for a (former?) addict center-fielder who can only stay on the field for half a season.
Not sure what Josh Hamilton’s support system is like these days, but as I see it, what needs to be addressed here is that support system, and to figure out what caused the relapse. Then take it from there.
It was family issues according to him. He wouldn’t say what happened though. I don’t blame him.
It was family issues according to him. He wouldn’t say what happened though. I don’t blame him.
My worry is what happens after baseball when teams won’t care if he relapses.
this is a very real concern. Hopefully by that time he’s all better
Sober or not, how does Hamilton see himself commanding a Pujols/Fielder type salary?
That is the part that seems to get lost in all of this relapse business. Does Hamilton seriously think any team is going to give him a 7-10 year contract in excess of $200 million? If so, he has more problems than just drugs and alcohol. A 3 or 4 year contract tops is about all he will get.
Yeah, I expect that each one of those beers he drank cost him probably $15-20 million dollars.
he’s got a year until free agency. he can float all the high numbers he wants.
High numbers get cut down to reality fast on the market.
Pujols and Fielder didn’t even deserve the contracts they got. As we all know, all it takes is one team to fall in love.
Pujols and Fielder didn’t even deserve the contracts they got. As we all know, all it takes is one team to fall in love.
Whether he is clean or not he doesn’t deserve AP5 or Prince money.
Whether he is clean or not he doesn’t deserve AP5 or Prince money.
I wish Hamilton the best in his recovery. It is too bad that Narron, his sober-buddy/positive reenforcer on the team, left the Rangers recently. This might have been averted. Nonetheless, it is ultimately up to Josh.
I do wonder if Ron Washington is the man to helm the Rangers, in some part because of his own past substance abuse problems. People deserve a second chance, sometimes a third chance. I think that applies even more so to people with a unique skill–artists, performers, perhaps athletes. People who are entrusted with management/decisionmaking responsibilities on the other hand–top business and military leaders, for example–deserve another chance too but not necessarily in the same positions of responsibility on which the overall succcess of the organization may depend on a single decision.
Would the idea of Nolan Ryan (or some other former Rangers standout who has remained in baseball after his playing career) putting on the manager’s uniform be worth considering? If Nolan is prohibited because he has an ownership stake, perhaps he could put that into a blind trust temporarily or sell it with an option to buy it back later after stepping down as manager eventually.
As an Angels fan I would love it if Nolan Ryan could be manager of the Rangers. Sadly, it won’t happen.
How much, if any, of Josh’s problems are from the guilt of the fan dying going after the ball he tossed into the stands? I’m probably getting really Freudian here, but he’s had more time to dwell on it in the off-season. Any which way, I hope Josh beats this thing. He’s a great player and seems like a terrific guy.
Not really out of the realm; I was thinking something else related to the team, as I stated prior.
How much, if any, of Josh’s problems are from the guilt of the fan dying going after the ball he tossed into the stands? I’m probably getting really Freudian here, but he’s had more time to dwell on it in the off-season. Any which way, I hope Josh beats this thing. He’s a great player and seems like a terrific guy.
He’s human. He made a mistake. Then he manned up, did not try to hide the fact that he made a mistake, and decided to face it head on just like he did 3 years ago. I have nothing but respect for Josh for acting like he did after his relapse went public. This is his contract year. With so much on line, it takes a better man than most to act like he did.
Even with this recent event, Josh Hamilton is still likely less of a drinker than 75% of major league baseball rosters. If the Rangers or MLB really wanted to deal with the issue of alcohol they would stop speaking out of both sides of their wallet. Baseball is run on beer money. Hamilton is a human being, which sometimes we fail to realize that our supernatural athletes are. 40,000 people at a Rangers game can go home from the ballpark and have a bad evening with family and go out and have a drink and nothing will get said.
I’m not even sure why this recent incident warranted a press conference. Unless, of course, there is more to the story and some of the bad PR is trying to be headed off early.
The truth is. With many of our athletes, and people in general…..if you want to dig for dirt…you’re going to find it.
Because the media probably would’ve found out anyway, and it looks much better to address it now and before some tabloid runs it as their cover story.
Even with this recent event, Josh Hamilton is still likely less of a drinker than 75% of major league baseball rosters. If the Rangers or MLB really wanted to deal with the issue of alcohol they would stop speaking out of both sides of their wallet. Baseball is run on beer money. Hamilton is a human being, which sometimes we fail to realize that our supernatural athletes are. 40,000 people at a Rangers game can go home from the ballpark and have a bad evening with family and go out and have a drink and nothing will get said.
I’m not even sure why this recent incident warranted a press conference. Unless, of course, there is more to the story and some of the bad PR is trying to be headed off early.
The truth is. With many of our athletes, and people in general…..if you want to dig for dirt…you’re going to find it.
I am a recovering addict. Whether I have a disease or not is not something I care to debate. If I know anything about my condition it is this – I have a choice whether or not I decide to use drugs again – PERIOD. What makes me different, maybe diseased is what happens AFTER I make the first choice to use. After I choose to use I lose all ability to choose anymore and my condition/disease takes over. Once I take the first drink, pill, injection w/e it is, I no longer can choose what to do – I am compelled by the illness to keep using at ALL COST and will find a way to do it. If it means my kid goes without new shoes or my ailing mother without pain meds I will get my fix. Call it what you will but YES it does come down to a choice for me. I deal with this choice every single day of my life and it will always be that way. I can say that it is the same for Josh.
Shoeless Mike