The Braves are “moving on” from their pursuit of Ryan Dempster, GM Frank Wren said yesterday. That leaves the Dodgers, the right-hander’s preferred team, as a potential suitor. The possibility of a trade exists, but the Cubs are said to be frustrated by their lack of leverage in talks with Los Angeles. So Dempster might stay put after all. Here’s the latest with the most recent updates up top…
- The Cubs offered to send Dempster to the Dodgers straight up for right-hander Allen Webster, but the Dodgers turned it down, writes Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com. People briefed on the talks say the Dodgers have thus far offered a couple of lesser prospects who may project as relievers instead. It now seems that the Dodgers are more interested in Matt Garza than Dempster.
- The Cubs are moving closer to sending Dempster to the Dodgers and are discussing various trades including a multi-team deal, tweets David Kaplan of CSNChicago.com.
- The Dodgers and Cubs continue talking and “might” be getting closer to a deal involving Dempster, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets.
- Rival executives say the Dodgers are projecting an air of optimism about their chances of obtaining Dempster, ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark reports (on Twitter).
- The Cubs are running out of desirable choices as they consider their next move, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports. The Cubs could keep Dempster and make him a qualifying offer after the season, but one executive says there’s “no way” the Cubs would make such an offer because the risk isn’t worth the reward.
- One executive wondered if the Cubs might offer Dempster $1MM to go to Atlanta if the Braves are willing to surrender considerably more than the Dodgers, Joel Sherman of the New York Post writes (Twitter links). Someone like Randall Delgado might be worth enough to make up for the one-time cost of $1MM.
- Dempster and Matt Garza are seen as more likely trade options for the Dodgers than James Shields, Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com reports (on Twitter).
- The possibility of the Cubs and Dodgers completing a deal involving Dempster remains in limbo, Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports reports (on Twitter).
Is the “Moving on” title a remembrance of superb actor Sherman Hemsley from his great show “The Jefferson’s” by chance?
If so.. Frank Wren could play Paul Benedict AKA Harry Bentley 😉
Bud Selig can play Tom Willis aka. the Honky.
LOL. We could have a entire cast filled out in NO time .
Wren hate to be suckered….if u remember the furcal signing he was so upset he said he wouldn sign any of that agent players again…..moyer is a client so hes gone after the year……
Except in this case, it’s “moving on down,” instead of up.
he’d look good on the South Side
Sox do not have the Cubs would want. The Sox do need another dependable starter though.
He has a liftetime era of 4.78 against the american league passssssss
If the offer doesn’t beat 2 compensation picks, then I don’t see how its such a horrible risk to offer him a qualifying offer. If he winds up accepting, then he can be traded next year as well. Perhaps he won’t perform to such a high degree but I doubt he regresses such that he’s not worth at least something to a contender/injury riddled team.
Its only 1 supplemental round pick. I could see why management could be scared Dempster takes the $12.5 mill if a better long term deal doesn’t surface.
Does Dempster have a limited time to accept or decline the qualifying offer?
I’m glad Wren has killed it. As a Braves fan I don’t want someone who needs to keep getting incentives to move here, especially a freakin’ million bucks, haha. Even if the Cubs come back now and say that they’ve “convinced” Dempster to come to Atlanta you have to think the Braves now have the upper hand; and could give up someone less than Delgado…
Delgado will be a better pitcher than dempster next year so I would trade tehran for grienke
Dempster’s worth Delgado- Dimaster Delgado.
Exactly!! Wren pretty much said that Delgado is off the table now even if they did resume trade talks. The Cubs need to just accept whatever the Dodgers are offering because Dempster has tied their hands.
This is ridiculous. How many more wins would the Braves get from Dempster though 2 months vs who would have pitched in his place? Maybe 1 or 2 at the most? Would that make much difference in the end? Maybe, but probably not. Shouldn’t the Braves try to get someone who may energize the team and/or may be a long term replacement? Otherwise, what is the point? Anyway, hopefully the Dempster thing with the Braves is dead but who knows…
Just got off the phone with the 2011 Braves. They said 1or 2 extra wins is more important than you think.
I said “at the most”. Could be zero. Given that he is at his peak, what is the likelihood that he is going to continue this streak through the rest of the season. I don’t think Dempster is a good deal at any price–not for a rental that is probably not going to make a big enough difference.
Why would the Braves still offer Delgado? It’s becoming quite obvious the Dodgers aren’t really that interested, from what they’ve been reported as offering… so why would the Braves keep the bid so high when that deal is off the table and there’s no one to bid against but themselves?
Dodgers might be Dempsters first choice, but clearly and understandably he isn’t the their priority. Will be interesting to see what Dempster does if/when the Dodgers land someone else. Pitching in ATL seems a lot better than finishing the year at Wrigley.
he better becareful what he ask 4 dempster….he might be playing with his buddy after the season cause nobody mite not trade for his since he said he wants the dodgers
If I’m the Cubs, I’ve gotta be pretty pissed at Ryan for keeping us from getting a top 50 prospect in Delgado.
debatable whether he is top 50 anymore but definitely get a middle to back of rotation arm with some major league experience is better than what dodgers will probably offer
He’s no longer considered a prospect but he has done nothing to hurt his status. His career ERA is over a quarter point lower than Dempster’s. He is only 22 with ceiling of a high 2 low 1 pitcher and even a possibility to exceed that. He’s already a 3 or 4 pitcher.
His value is probably slightly down cause of his surprising walk rate
The Cubs aren’t going to get a pitcher as good as Delgado from the Dodgers.
Agreed, just saying it is debatable whether he would be a top 50 prospect if he qualified.
Keep the bum we don’t want him! Why in the world would we offer them anything close to the same package again?
Can the Cubs get/want two out of Reed/Webster/Gould/Martin instead of Lee? Because I would take a deal like that.
Doubtful. Remember, rental.
Well the Dodgers obviously want Dempster, he’s a definite #3 for LA for a playoff run, LA doesn’t want to give up Lee, LA has a strong chance to re-sign him, he wants to play in LA, LA has a ton of top-200 type pitching prospects and the rental thing obviously didn’t stop Atlanta from offering Delgado who is a top-50 prospect.
The Cubs lost a lot of leverage, but it’s not like they’ll trade him for nothing and playoff-contending teams tend to overpay for help.
The Cubs getting two solid prospect arms, even if neither is a likely TOR type… seems like a good deal for both teams at this stage.
First, what Atlanta offered isn’t relevant. That deal is gone, and it’s unrealistic to expect the Dodgers to bid against themselves. They aren’t in the business of humoring the Cubs. Second, when Dempster goes to free agency at the end of the season, where he played the prior year is not relevant to where he signs for the future. Third, there’s no reason to think that the Dodgers are trying to sign him “for nothing.” Just because the Cubs don’t get they player they covet the most doesn’t make it nothing.
Well Atlanta’s offer is relevant in regards to what teams will pay/have to pay to acquire deadline talent. The Dodgers don’t have to bid against themselves, but they do have to bid against not acquiring that talent, Dempster changing his mind, the Cubs expectations of what they could have received, the Cubs deciding to keep Dempster and offer him a qualifying offer (though unlikely).
Again, it is relevant in regards to where Dempster plays the this season. If he moves to the Dodgers before the deadline, they can now talk extensions as the season is going, Dempster clearly wants to play there, the Dodgers should be a playoff-caliber team next year as well, and at this stage in Dempster’s career… in all likelihood it’s either Chicago or LA. As a family man who has made a lot of money in his career, I’m sure he’s not looking to shop himself to every team in the majors and move again.
Third, “nothing” is a relative term. I imagine if the Cubs are unable to move Dempster due to his apparent sudden change of heart, I’d guess the most likely scenario is not to move Dempster for a prospect they don’t want (“nothing”), and make Dempster a QO in the offseason to get a sandwich comp pick, and get a player they do actually want. Just because the Dodgers offer the Cubs a player doesn’t mean it’s worth something to the Cubs.
The Cubs lost a lot of leverage, but they aren’t going to trade Dempster to trade him. They need back at least one quality piece.
I appreciate the thoughtful views. I don’t really disagree with any of this. Where I disagree is with those who argue that a player has set value, which the acquiring team has to pay or they won’t get that player. It’s an auction. Seller asks, buyers bid. The more bidders the higher the selling price can go. If they find mutually agreeable terms, they transact, if they don’t they don’t. Funny, but these pages are full of fans complaining about teams making “massive overpays” to get a player, but almost never do I hear that they got a bargain because the market for the player didn’t develop as expected. The Cubs hoped to be in a seller’s market for Dempster, but because of circumstances peculiar to him, it became a buyer’s market instead. So the Cubs appear to have the choice of selling lower than they expected, or not at all. I’d wager they go for the no-risk guaranteed return, even if it’s not what they really wanted.
I think Gould and Martin is definitely a doable package for Dempster, from the Dodgers’ side.
I think Reed and Webster are guys the Dodgers would rather hold on to OR trade for a player who is NOT a rental, like Dempster is.
I agree, but from the rumors it looks like the Dodgers want to play relative hardball now that the Cubs have lost most of their leverage.
Actually, I think its the Cubs playing hardball by insisting on Webster to be in the deal.
I think 2 out of Gould/Withrow/E.Martin is a fair deal for Dempster.
That could be. Don’t know much, haven’t watched anything about Withrow, but I think two projectable arms (top 200) should be good… I would hope we wouldn’t pass on that.
With the new collective bargaining agreement, it almost makes more sense for the Cubs to keep Dempster. He’ll be at least a type B and possibly a type A free agent.
There are no Type A/B FAs in the new CBA.
You have to offer a one-year, top-125 salary ($12M-$13M in all likelihood), and if it’s rejected and he signs elsewhere you get ONE compensation pick between rounds 1 and 2.
That has value, but obviously getting two decent arms or one very good arm is probably more valuable.
The question is leverage and if Dempster would accept the $12M+ if offered. If this is a case where management did get a bit screwed over by Dempster and the Cubs ultimately can’t move him, I’d tell him not to accept the qualifying offer or get ready for a long year in the bullpen and boos from crowds. But no one wants it to get that messy.
There are no longer types of free agents. The new collective bargaining agreement allows for a supp pick no comp pick only if you make a qualifying offer estimated at 12.5 million.
BREAKING: Dodgers and Cubs may or maynot make a trade involving Dempster
I seriously doubt it.
good job Frank Wren..you know you almost overpaid when you offer a guy money to make a trade. Or the the Cubs got a little you-know-what for Delgado ;D
Cubs talked to Dempster about being traded, how could this be so messed up. Either the Cubs should have told Dempster about the trade first, or Dempster should have honored the trade. It just looks like a lack of communication.
He probably said he’d “consider” a trade to certain places in place of a guarantee that he would go.
Dempster certainly hurt the Cubs’ leverage by torpedoing the Braves trade, but I’m not sure I agree with the folks who think the Dodgers have the Cubs over a barrel. They can push all they like, but if they scuttle this deal trying to pay as little as possible, their other options all will cost substantially more (Greinke, Johnson) or are considerably less appealing (Liriano, Vargas). The Cubs don’t HAVE to trade Dempster. They can just take their draft pick.
the cubs won’t risk offering him arb
I can never figure out how to post links here without getting censored, but there are at least a half dozen sources online who say they will make him a qualifying offer (the new CBA equivalent of offering arb). So indications are that, yeah, that is exactly what they would do.
the link to rosenthal’s article above says that they won’t risk it
Actually, the Rosenthal article quotes one exec’s opinion that they wouldn’t risk it. Olney’s recent article on the matter says Cubs sources say they will. Local media here in Chicago have the same story.
In any case, the important point I was making was that if the Dodgers won’t agree on a price with the Cubs, they’re either going to have pay much, much, much more or settle for much, much less.
You mean make a qualifying offer? This has to be the Cubs’ party line if only because it’s their best play from a weak hand. Ned holds the higher cards. I’d call the bluff.
The thing to remember is that if the Dodgers aren’t comfortable paying a second tier price for Dempster, all of their other viable options are considerably more expensive.
You have to wonder how satisfied with themselves the Dodgers would really be if they walked away from the Cubs’ table congratulating themselves about not giving up one of their top four prospects for a rental… then sat down at the table with the Brewers for Greinke and were promptly told they’d need to give up two or three of those guys.
They could always deal for Vargas or Liriano, but it’s not real clear that either of those guys is a real upgrade.
That’s true, and a good point. Yet I suspect the Cubs gain little from this knowledge as they really can’t be sure what the other clubs are demanding for their starters, or if the Dodgers are willing to give up more to get more. This is where a GM has to be a real poker player. The analogy keeps coming up because it’s a good one.
But the cubs are terrible at drafting and developing players.
You understand that they changed their entire management and development team this last offseason, right?
Hopefully it works out for them they’re going to need it.
No guarantee on that pick either if Dempster accepts the qualifying offer. Then your right back where you started and no potential young arm for the future.
I am not sure I agree that Dempster has high odds of agreeing to a one year deal at a 10% pay cut, coming off his best year as a starter.
Not many pitchers are going to get offered more than $12-13m for their age 36 season…
and lose a 1st round draft pick
You’re right but 3 years, 27 million is 15 million more guaranteed dollars than that qualifying offer. He’ll easily find that on the open market.
they’re not getting a draft pick… I doubt Dempster turns down 12.5 mil for another season.
This is his last shot at a good multi year deal and he is probably going to pitch his best season. No way he accepts qualifying offer.
Being paid 13 mil/year on his current contract and 14 this year. He may take a pay cut but he is going to leverage this season into a 3-5 year contract with another team.
he may be able to get a 2 year deal… maybe
but as he continues to regress to his career norms over the second half, it’s not going to be for anything near what you think based on his first half #s.
Hah… “Bye!” says Wren…
If its multi player deal i can see Dempster and Camp being packaged to LA. Because the Dodgers traded Eovaldi. they could your another bullpen piece. Not to mention Camp has been good this year he is probably the team mvp of the first half (tho that isnt saying much) Dodgers could send Allen Webster and maybe 2 other prospects and call it a deal? idk what to expect back in any Dempster trade now of days
Eovaldi was a starter, and the Dodgers got Choate in the deal. If anything, the Dodgers might trade away a reliever. They have Jansen, Belisario, Lindblom, Choate, Tolleson, Wright and Guerra right now. Elbert just hit the DL, but it is a phantom injury to make room for a spot starter (Fife). They also have Guerrier, Coffey and Hawksworth working their way back from the DL.
good point i forgot about Choate. and i see your point, when i saw the dodgers play the cubs back in april/may the pen was hit with the DL. so thats why i figured camp
Let’s be honest, the Cubs ARE going to move Dempster and it’s most likely going to be LA. They won’t risk offering him 12-14M in a rebuilding season next year just for a pick.
I see it as sell low on Dempster, no choice being a rental and leverage gone.
Once Dempster is dealt, Garza will be a top target for many. If he can prove healthy on Monday he could be a last minute move and bring in a nice return from the losers of Greinke/JJ/Shields.
Dempster will never accept a 1 year qualifying offer. He’ll want a longer term deal with more guaranteed money overall.
A qualifying offer would be around $12.5MM. I doubt there’s much “risk” he’s going to agree to a one year deal at 10% pay cut coming off his best year.
He may be willing to take a pay cut but it would have to be over a longer period than one year. I could see him taking 10 mil a year for 3-5 years.
Heyman posted in his article, which MLBTR links to in the post, that Dempster told Braves players he would accept the deal, then told the Cubs he wouldn’t.
The more I read about him he’s got no class, no morals, no honor. I understand he has the right to block a trade, and understand his daughter has serious medical issues, but Dempster was the one telling the Cubs 2 months ago and again 2 weeks ago (according to Frank Wren) that he would accept a deal to Atlanta. If he didn’t want to go from the start he could have just said so.
“The more I read about him he’s got no class, no morals, no honor.” is a bit extreme (many Cubs fans are losing their minds over this).
First of all this decision has nothing to do with morality. This was a lousy move and backtrack by Dempster, especially if what is being said is true and not rumors/speculation by the media.
Up until this point I’ve heard nothing but good things about Dempster. This whole situation tarnishes that, but it doesn’t make him some sub-human monster as everyone wants to make him out to be.
It seems it was a man going back on his word to accept a deal to Atlanta if the Cubs could make it. It’s lousy and I guess you can go so far as to say dishonorable, but that’s about it.
I imagine Dempster burning a ton of goodwill with fans in the city he loves is probably adequate crow to eat when he gets booed during starts in Chicago.
Does have a little to do with morality. He has a duty to be honest with the cubs and not talk about business decisions with outsiders. He should have told Theo he only wants to go to LA. That way Theo could have acted like Demp was being shopped to other teams then taken what the dodgers had to offer.
Well from my understanding Dempster said he was open to considering Atlanta, but eventually changed his mind. We’ll never know if he was being irresponsible, lied outright or what the exact circumstances were. It’s possible he really did feel open to going to Atlanta, but when he heard a deal was imminent he ultimately changed his mind.
I don’t think it makes him a bad person or has anything to do with being “good” or “moral”. I think at MOST he lied and/or went back on an oral agreement with Cubs management… which if true… is a lousy thing to do, but I think it’s a stretch for anyone to call him a morally questionable person based off of one poor decision when he’s been lauded throughout his career and we don’t really know the exact circumstances other than the rumor mill.
In general I am questioning the amazing amount of high horses people seem to be riding on. It was probably poor decision-making and a bit of going back on your word here, but I would hardly call someone a bad or immoral person because they change their mind and exercise their contractual rights.
Think its pretty well verified and even Wren discussed the trade that Dempster is the person who held it up. I don’t know how you suddenly change your mind and you should do that before the deal is in place and at least limit the general public’s knowledge to he doesn’t want to go to Atlanta not he only wants to go to LA.
LOL at the Cubs!
I wonder if the Nats’ are still interested in Dempster…though it’s hard to say if he’d accept a trade there. Just need ONE other team to show interest in order to get the Dodgers to quit playing games. When it comes down to it, I think the Cubs would be far better off making an offer at season’s end for a comp pick, which is basically a 1st or second rounder than to take two mediocre prospects from LA.
I believe Dempster only wants to be traded to L.A. The Cubs don’t have to trade him, though. They can make him a qualifying offer after the season and when he rejects it, they get a compensatory draft pick. If they use that pick wisely, that player might turn out to be a Major Leaguer someday.
i guess demp isn’t the team first guy he made himself out to be the last 9 years. this whole situation is absolutely ridiculous
Truly a classless move by Dempster. His next start at Wrigley will be a boo-fest.
they won’t be yelling “boo” – they’ll be yelling “boo-urns”