There has been much speculation about a David Price trade this winter but very little hard information about interested teams. CBS Sports' Jon Heyman explores the seemingly quiet Price trade market in his wrap-up of the latest news about the Rays southpaw…
- "Five or six" teams have made offers involving Price but the Rays haven't seen anything that piques their interest. The Rays "seem slightly shocked" that they haven't received better offers and people within the organization are now discussing keeping Price through at least the start of the season.
- Taijuan Walker seems to be an untouchable for the Mariners, with a Mariners source telling Heyman that "Taijuan Walker will be on our roster come Opening Day." Another M's source says Seattle would prefer to keep both Walker and James Paxton, and instead trade young position players for Price. A Rays official hinted that Seattle could offer an acceptable trade package without Walker, with Heyman noting that Paxton and Mike Zunino would seem to be logical candidates.
- "Tampa Bay's position is that they need one huge prospect or at least a trio of very good ones" for Price, so a Mariners offer based around the likes of Dustin Ackley, Nick Franklin and Justin Smoak wouldn't be enough to get it done.
- The Royals have "had mostly just internal talks on Price" and haven't exchanged any "meaningful dialogue" with the Rays about a possible trade. That said, Heyman notes that Kansas City has the prospect depth to make a trade possible, though Price's rising salary through arbitration over the next two seasons makes a deal a "tall order," according to one Royals source.
- Trading Price within the AL East is "not ideal," according to one Rays source, though the idea wasn't dismissed outright. I'd guess that Tampa Bay would want an even higher premium for Price from a division rival than they would from a non-AL East club.
Its a high Price to pay Mariners
Lame! But I “liked” it anyways. 😉
I wonder how a team that sent in a trade proposal(obviously not wanting to let go of their prospects) feel if david price pitches better than his 2012 stats and miss the play offs by a game or two. Just curious hmm
They won’t feel worse than the Tigers who traded John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander. Alexander got the Tigers into the playoffs, where they were bounced in the first round. Then they had to watch Smoltz pitch like the Hall of Famer he is for 20 years.
You are not trading for Price, you are paying for an expensive two year rental.
Price’s agent has made it very clear they will sign a multi now if the numbers are right. I get the sense that a low of people feel Price will be washed up after 2 years.
Price ends up in St Louis
Only room for Adams or Taveras to start.
Ellis brought in to “compete” with Wong.
A dozen MLB ready SP
They’ve got tons of expendable pieces and need a LHP in the rotation
Perfect fit!
I think the Rays should deal with the Mariners. Mariners give up Justin Smoak, Jesus Montero, Nick Franklin or Brad Miller and LHP Tyler Pike for David Price and a throw in player. The Rays need offense and somehow have the ability to make good hitters great hitters.
they just signed loney though why the need for smoak ? just because they are good at it doesnt mean they should accept a bunch of coal hoping to find some diamonds
They need a DH. Smoak is a switch hitter with power and whatever they are doing in Seattle isn’t working for him. The Rays can make him better.
lol reminds me of carlos pena to be honest
No team needs to give up an ace for a Dh…..because no team needs a Dh like that.
That’s a massive overpay for maybe 2 wins over a FA starter. The M’s should just forget about Price and sign Garza or Jimenez or something. I’d rather give Ramirez another shot than give up loads of talent for two years of Price.
It may sound like an overpay, but really, it’s not. Fact is, Franklin is now blocked, Smoak hasn’t panned out, and if you give up Pike, he’d be blocked anyways by a rotation that would include one of the best in baseball with Hernandez, Price, Kuma, Walker, and Paxton with Beavan and Maurer waiting, and Hultzen still a possibility in ’15. So actually, they’d be trading their guys that are blocked at the major league level anyways.
The only problem with his trade is that the Rays won’t accept Smoak, Montero, Franklin, and Pike. One of Walker, Zunino, and Paxton will have to be included, if not Zunino and Paxton….and that’s where I would balk if I was the Mariners. Offer something close to the same package with Romero to the Phillies and get Lee. Hernandez, Lee, Kuma, Walker, Paxton sounds way better than Price, especially when considering that you’d keep your best prospects.
It’s still an overpay. Just because a player is “blocked” doesn’t make them less valuable. Miller is our SS. Franklin can always learn a new position. To be honest, I don’t even really want Price. He’s good, but he’s not a monster, and I know it will cost more than I’m comfortable with.
I agree he’s not less valuable. But he has nowhere to play. He’s already not projected as a SS, and he won’t play OF or 1B, so he’s not really a good candidate for a utility role. I totally agree that he isn’t less valuable, I just think that they would be better of trading for another position of need for him….like a reliever or closer. I love Franklin, and I didn’t want them to sign Cano because of him….but now that Cano is there for 10 years, he’s a bench player and he’s more valuable than that. Might as well cash in on that now.
Personally, I think they should have traded for Fielder since he could DH/1B, Make that trade along with one for maybe Lee, and all of the sudden maybe Ellsbury likes the idea of Seattle. You get Ellsbury and Fielder for the price of Cano, add Lee and another RH bat to protect Fielder. Maybe still Hart and LoMo.
Lineup of: CF Ellsbury, 2B Franklin/ Ackley, DH Fielder, RF Hart, 1B Smoak, LF LoMo, C Zunino, CF Saunders, SS Miller
Rotation: Hernandez, Lee, Kuma, Walker, Paxton
Why trade Franklin for a reliever when they grow on trees? Just tell Franklin to start practicing the OF and throw him in AAA for a few months. There’s no way this team could afford to carry Felix, Ellsbury, Cliff Lee, and Prince Fielder. That’s like $80MM with 21 other positions to fill.
It’s a lot, but the Mariners also don’t have anyone that costs money, and won’t for a long time (at least until those big contracts were off the books). You’d have the big contracts, but Walker, Paxton, Zunino, Seager, Miller, Franklin, and Saunders won’t be making much more than league minimum until around 2018. By then, Lee and Fielder would have been off the books, with Ellsbury shortly after. And, the Mariners can easily get to $110 M payroll.
I got the feeling that Lee wasn’t too wild about pitching in Seattle. He went to Philadelphia for the environment, something Seattle didn’t have to offer. Hamels would be the guy I’d want. Paxton, Franklin, + for Hamels… that might work. I don’t know.
You have made my head hurt
My apologies…for whichever part caused the ache.
And we clear some roster space. I would like to see Cliff Lee back for a full season without injuries. Still kills me we traded him to Texas and didn’t get Chris Davis instead of Smoak. Or if Franklin goes to Toronto, bring back another former Mariner in Brandon Morrow.
Royals even talking about Price? What universe did I wake up in?
Teams are starting to get wise to the “many good prospects for one great player nearing free agency” scam. The Shields deal might have been the last of the breed. Whether high prospects are now overvalued (probably) or not, I don’t think the Rays are going to get their mother lode from anyone.
I get your point but people say they same thing about teams giving players big, long contracts but yet they keep happening. All you need is a desperate GM and those prospects for star player deals will still happen.
I agree on both, I think both will be coming to an end very soon. I think that the Shields-Myers deal is going to be the end of giving up top prospects for a rental, and I think Pujols and Hamilton are going to be the last couple of straws for long term contracts with a lot of money. I don’t put Seattle and Cano in that because they had to overpay in order to start being relevant, much like the Nats did with Werth at the time.
Also, I bet Price gets traded only when the team can work out an extension with him first. I think the Mariners actually would have considered giving up Walker if Price agreed long term first. Much easier to give up a top prospect when you know you’d have Hernandez and Price pitching long-term, and even better if Kuma was there long term.
The R.A. Dickey deal also netted quite the haul for the Mets it was pretty similar to the Shields deal.
Add to the Grienke deal the Angels made. How bad could the Angels use Jean Segura?
I think also money is an issue. Taking in the expensive guys while giving up 3years of super inexpensive ML quality players?
Honestly, Tampa isn’t in a great position here with the teams that are linked to him. They aren’t the types that can take in Price’s salary this year and then next year’s which will be what? 20mil?
I think there was a pretty good Fangraphs+ post on this a couple days ago
The Rays don’t really need offense unless you’re talking about a real star. They have at least a decent player at all 8 positions and the only thing they could probably use is a DH. But there are better options than Smoak and Montero.
Even Longoria and Wil Myers don’t justify a good offense. Ben Zobrist is the only other player that is above average offensively. James Loney was good and a plus defender, but Matt Joyce, Desmond Jennings, Yunel Escobar, Ryan Hanigan have not been productive offensively.
What are you talking about?!? Those guys are clearly not Miguel Cabrerra, Trout, CarGo, etc but every Rays position except catcher has an above average offensive contributor. And only half a dozen teams are lucky enough to get big offensive productions from the C spot (Posey, Molina, Santana, Castro, Lucroy, maybe AJ on a good year)
Player / wOBA / wRC+
Loney 339 118
Jennings 330 112
Joyce 330 112
Escobar 311 101
DeJesus 326 110
Most teams have a “decent” starting lineup. The Rays and Mariners actually match up well with a trade, just not for what the Rays want right now. I’m sure the Rays would love to have Zunino, Franklin, Smoak, and someone like Pike.
But, teams are starting to see it’s a bad deal to trade for a rental. Giving up Segura for a couple of months with Greinke, Myers for Shields. If teams aren’t giving up their prospects now, they aren’t going to get more by holding onto him and making his time under control even less. Maybe someone gets desperate, but I don’t see it happening. And, I sure hope it’s not the Mariners. I’d much rather have Walker, Paxton, and Zunino long term. Go trade much less talent and get Lee.
I totally agree on “Go trade much less talent and get Lee”, or even Hamels. That won’t require a Walker/Paxton OR Zunino. I say whatever of those 3 SPs they can land without giving up Walker/Paxton OR Zunino is the player Seattle needs to go after and pursue.
I just think TB will end up getting a great package from Seattle without Seattle having to give up Walker/Paxton or Zunino.
Right, I agree. I just think Lee would be more beneficial overall. Price is amazing, but he’s going to cost way more than Lee, and, I actually think Lee would be a great mentor to their younger pitchers on top of being amazing too, especially Paxton and Hultzen whose style is more like Lee’s than Price’s. Between Paxton and Hultzen learning from Lee and Walker learning from Hernandez….man, that’d be dangerous.
If the Royals were going to trade for David Price, they would have done it last year.
Instead, they got Shields.
The Mariners would be not be wise to trade for Price.
Price had a slightly off year and he did lose a bit of velocity during the season.
Maybe by the season end it was back, but who really knows since no one really talks about it. All anyone wants (well some) is a super huge trade to talk about.
That’s not good for baseball imo. Also, if the Rays can’t afford an extension with Price, why should a team bail them out? If you really want him, patience is critical here! That and see if he’s still healthy by the time free agency rolls around, then get him!
Exactly!!! Screw the Rays’! Walker, Paxton, and Zunino aren’t going anywhere! Why trade for an injured 2year rental ace when he’s not interested in negotiating a contract and yet Tampa is asking for the moon! Lol well they can keep asking. Franklin is gonna be a stud. So is Brad Miller. That’s our future core. And Nick could probably be turned into a super utility like Ben Zobrist with a better bat and less defense.
Granted Dayton Moore is an idiot, but if I were the Rays and I have a track record of getting really good return on players… Yeah, I’d keep asking for the moon.
Yeah, I agree with Miller being part of the core along with Walker, Paxton, and Zunino, but Franklin is gone. I think maybe Ackley becomes a utility guy since he’s already played IF and OF. I guess Franklin could be a utility guy, but they’re better off trading him to help with other needs since he’s probably their best realistic trade piece.
Not to be mister obvious, but why would they trade Price without Walker.
I don’t think that’s obvious at all, and they would because the Mariners talked about a package around Zunino….which is one position the Rays don’t have anyone long term at, and Zunino could be one of the best. Realistically, if the Mariners built a package starting with Zunino, Franklin, Smoak, and Pike….it wouldn’t be far off, since the real question is who is really going to offer them a better prospect?
They got Myers from KC last year (which I’m sure KC regrets and most teams know that), they aren’t getting Profar, they aren’t getting Tavares. Teams watch the Cardinals and realize saving prospects works out better, and teams know the Rays can’t afford Price and have to trade him so they aren’t going to blown away. Especially after the Segura-Greinke deal and now the Shields-Myers deal.
So to answer the question of why wouldn’t you trade Price without Walker, it’s because they probably can’t get anywhere near that for a return this time around. And, the longer they hold out, the less the return will be. Especially if Price goes around saying he won’t sign an extension with the new team.
The M’s never brought up Zunino, it’s just speculation. The M’s aren’t trading Zunino.
seriously. all these mariners fans on here are hilarious with suggestions of Smoak, Franklin, Ackley, etc. all failing prospects that are destined to be DFA soon anyways. Walker is absolutely necessary for any deal involving Price. Anything less than that might get you Hellickson, but not Price.
Franklin just got a cup of coffee and already he’s a failed prospect. Alright you lost all credibility to this conversation. Have fun getting scraps for Price from someone else at the deadline.
Rays want like an entire teams core for price. Asked CLE for Salazar, Santana and more
I never really understood why trading within the division wasn’t “ideal”. The idea of the trade is to gain an advantage over your competitors, receiving a division rivals highly regarded prospects hinders that team and could vastly improve yours. That coupled with the fact that there is no guarantee to Price signing an extension with the new team make it even more desirable.
And losing Price doesn’t hinder the rays for prospects that may or may not have an impact in the next 2 years? Pretty sure this vastly improves the team that acquires Price immediately.
definitely. but by trading price for prospects kinda throws the towel in for the season anyway, no?
They were still tough without Sheilds , they’ll remain competitive without Price as well but ofcourse losing two aces back to back wouldn’t make them favourites.
The Rays retool their teams fairly quickly every year and still have made the playoffs for the past few years now they will be fine.
Rays are also in somewhat of a “win now” mode and trading Price in the division makes it harder for them to win it. Obviously they would like to keep him and win with him, but they know they can’t afford to do that. And while taking prospects from your division rivals COULD hurt them, there is a great chance that it won’t as well.
Rays are expecting too much for just two years of Price.
Price is a lefty ace in a tough division with playoff experience. I’d say asking for the moon is fairly justified.
Danny Salazar, Carlos Santana, and Francisco Lindor? Those three were all asked from Cleveland…
Tampa Bay has a better shot at getting 20,000 in Tropicana Field than they do getting that return for Price.
It’s called negotiating. Plus, if I were the Rays and just got Myers less than a year ago, I’d be asking for the moon every time. I understand that was most likely a fluke deal, but what’s the worst that can happen asking for the moon? You have to settle for a few stars instead? I’d take that
The Rays got Wil Myers and Odorizzi, a premium prospect, and a good prospect.
Asking for a highly rated 1B/C/DH in Santana, a young stud like Salazar and a premium prospect in Lindor is just absurd.
What’s wrong with asking for the moon every time? Sometimes guys hang up the phone, and they hang up the phone for good.
And you act like Wil Myers wasn’t one of the best prospects in baseball last year I mean he was only in the top 10 of every respectable baseball prospect list. The Rays have every right to ask for one of the best prospects of any team they are negotiating with as they are dealing one of the best pitchers in baseball.
I acknowledged that Myers was a premium prospect… those were my exact words. Not once did I say anything about Myers’ performance or abilities, just that he was a premium prospect.
You do know that a Rays “source” refuted that rumor, right? It’s probably just Cleveland’s way of saying “We tried but they asked for too much”.
And then you have 28 other teams still out there with the lines still connected.
If the Rays don’t balk at lowering the price, than sure hang up and block their number, but I’m sure the Rays would be willing to listen for other offers.
If I were any other team, though, I’d probably not want to deal with the Rays at all anyway.
No one will deal 3-4 of their prospects for him.
Because you say so?
Kansas City just did it.
Texas did it for 3 months of Garza.
The odds are in Tampa’s favor.
That’s the cost for a proven Ace. This isn’t a vacuum, Price is HUGELY better to the current FA alternatives. 28 year old Cy Young winners just don’t go on the open market. Even middle market teams lock them up right quick (Felix, Wainright, Verlander, etc) A team like the Cards doesn’t have to make a deal since they are stacked with pitching, but teams like M’s, D-Backs, LAA, TX who NEED better pitching to contend. Would you rather two years of Price at $30m and a possible extension if it goes well, or 5 years of Garza/Santana at almost $100m? You have to give up something of value to get something of value
Friedman is just as good as Beane when it comes to getting value for players so its no surprise that the Rays always for the most part get great deals for their players.
That rumor has already been shot down. Didn’t happen.
Why would the Mariners even think about trading Zunino?
They won’t. Zunino is not going anywhere, nor is Walker or Paxton. And I’m still confident with guys Seattle will make avail we will land one of Price/Lee/Hamels/Scherzer…and Tanaka “if” posted.
Seattle has some serious talent coming up and giving any of it away for a two year rental considering both Walker and Paxton will be as good as Price this year does not make good sense.
You made me laugh
We will see about that..
“Walker and Paxton will be as good as Price this year”
O_o
I don’t know about this year, but I agree it’s not worth trading either one for Price. When you count cost-controlled years, Walker and Paxton are more valuable in WAR than Price, and for that fact I’d hang onto them.
I can’t imagine the return the Rays will get for Price, but I’m thinking it won’t be much. They need to trade him, and teams won’t give up top prospects….bad situation for the Rays. I bet the best prospect they could get would be Zunino, and I don’t even think the Mariners would do that. Won’t be Walker.
Are people seriously forgetting Shields?
The Rays, albeit hard pressed for cash, don’t ‘have’ to trade price the same way they didn’t ‘have’ to trade Shields. They did because they were getting expensive but also because they could get good value for him.
The Rays have even doing this for awhile. They aren’t in a bad position at all.
Right, and pressed for cash means they need to trade him, because that is how the Rays have to operate. If they hold onto him longer, his value just goes down because it’s less control. No teams are desperate, and the ones that are don’t have prospects.
And I’m not sure what you mean in forgetting about Shields. If you mean what the Rays got for him, I would actually argue that that trade is exactly what is hurting the market for Price. Every team now saw what trading prospects for a big pitcher did for them long term. Every team now knows how the Segura-Greinke trade worked out for the Angels, how the Dickey-Arnaud + worked out for Toronto, and how Myers-Shields worked out for the Royals. I bet all three of those teams would take those back, and teams know that.
That is why, despite the praise of Price, no team is going to offer the likes of Walker, Zunino, Tavares, Profar, etc. The Rays will demand all they want, but teams are smarter this time around. Especially since the teams that want Price can also just sign Santana, Garza, or Ubaldo and keep their farm.
ok everyone, too much optimism?
Unless they get a truly amazing offer the Rays will just hold Price till the 2014 trade deadline. He will be worth as much or more to a team in the playoff hunt.
By the time Walker is up to Price’s level Cano will no longer be in his prime and he will be bleeding the Ms for money just like all big contracts. They need to do whatever it takes to win in the next two seasons. Yes Walker is cheaper and has the potential to be better then Price in a few years, but realistically all Walker has right now is a lot of hype and good stuff. He has none of the experience, command or ability to deal with pressure that can only be gained with time. David Price is a proven commodity and if you want to win right now go get him.
Agree with the win now thing, but not at the price of Walker or Zunino. Walker could do the same thing that Harvey did this year, and has that potential. Look at both Harvey and Fernandez this year. Potential 6 years of that worth Price for 2 years? I think not. Plus, the Mariners will be better this year, but they aren’t going to the World Series. Cano will still be good for 3-4 years, and in that case they could add a piece or two and Walker and Paxton would have more experience.
You have to remember that the window of contending for the Mariners is just beginning, not at the end. the Mariners are still extremely young, and the core isn’t going anywhere until after 2018. By then, plenty of pieces can be added, but if Walker is traded, you lose either an ace or an extremely valuable trade chip. Someone that maybe next year could be traded for Stanton if he doesn’t extend. Much easier and cheaper in terms of prospects to go get someone like Cliff Lee, who wont cost any of Walker, Paxton, or Zunino but would still make them start contending this year.
Hernandez, Lee, Kuma, Walker, Paxton is still better than Hernandez, Price, Kuma, Paxton, Beavan/Ramirez/Maurer
Can we put an end to the fallacy that a Tampa is received “6 years” of Wil Myers for 2 years of James Shields? Because if Myers turns out to be real good, Tampa will be forced to trade Myers when he still has 2 years of Arbitration left. Therefore, Tampa only received 4 years, not 6… so 4 years of Myers for 2 years of Shields doesn’t sound like so much of any over-pay anymore, does it?
If your scenario turns out to be true, you are forgetting the players the rays will receive in return for myers. 4 years of Myers + a good package for 2 years of Shields.
Myers has proven to be useful with the bat, but there are still questions over his glove and his arm.. hopefully he will grow out of it, but the Rays are a team built on defence so expect Myers to spend time at DH if this doesn’t improve.
This will reflect in any future trade for Myers.
The glove I’d agree with but for a converted catcher still learning to play the field, he’s not too bad. The glaring mistake in Game 1 against the Sox is not indicative of his ability. Even Maddon, who is almost never negative about his players in public, admits there is some work to be done. I’m betting he’s doing it as we speak.
I’ve never heard anyone call Wil’s arm into question though. Nearly every prospect evaluation I’ve ever read, and that’s more than one mind you, suggest that he is above average to plus.
Net, I’m not sure the Rays will be quite ready to move Wil to DH based on some weak sabermetrics numbers over less than half a season and one fly ball mistake in a tough situation. As Steve Spurrier says “just gotta coach him up a little bit.”
If that’s what it takes to make you and Moore feel better, sure. Fallacy ended.
Forced? LoL.
but what about the players the Rays would receive if Myers does turn into a stud? those have to be counted in the total value of a player as well, and again back to overpay. I think unless the Royals can extend Shields, (unlikely) or Myers absolutely busts (50/50 at best) the Rays will come out on top when it is all said and done.
I think its past the time to trade him now, he won’t go anywhere. Too many look at the Rays and say they are asking for too much. Take a look from our perspective, we are trading away 2 more years of a Cy Young calibre ace SP who is also a clubhouse leader. Although the salary is high, that is still pretty valuable to the Rays as the aim is the get to the playoffs.
With Cano signed and a number of the top FAs off the market, we’re going to go back to having daily “David Price Rumors” stories. LoL. All the little Junior GMans posting here must be very excited. I see many posts from JGMs offering up their team’s detritus and players voted Most Likely to be DFA’ed Anyway for Price and angry that the Rays won’t accept that deal. Those Rays are asking too much, like when they insulted Cleveland. Oh wait, that didn’t actually happen.
I’m looking forward to Opening Day at the Trop with David Price facing the Blue Jays. If he ain’t there, then I’m looking forward to Opening Day at the Trop with Matt Moore or Alex Cobb facing the Blue Jays. Cheers, boys. You make for some entertaining reading.
I can’t get over the people here who are downplaying what David Price does for your rotation. He is clearly one of the top starters in the majors. The numbers he puts up are in the AL East, against some monster lineups.
I am guessing that his value to any AL team is huge because he is one of the guys out there who can throw 9 innings and shut a team down. His value to an NL team is also great, but he will need to bat… and NL pitchers don’t often pull as many complete games because of this. A move to the NL would make him even more dominant and could extend his career. Think of pitching to lineups of 6 good hitters rather than 9.
This guys is a game-changer, and I would be happy to have him on my team. Remember, winning isn’t just about dollars and cents value over contract. A guy who is 7-12 with a 4.00 ERA making 1 mil a year may be producing more than he’s being paid, but he is not going to win you championships.
Another thing that shocks me is the package they offered for Justin Upton was considerable and yet they won’t move him for Price? Hmmkay. I still think Atlanta will make a serious offer I mean we have Minor (his one-time roommate (?1) and college teammate) as well as an opening for him at least for awhile. Plus Atlanta is Price’s team and he’d probably sign a long term deal (give him Lee money…he’s worth it) Even with Floyd signing (who probably wouldn’t be in the rotation for a few months (?2) to start the year there’s an opening…not to mention Beachy’s probably not at 100%. To start the year they will have an opening in the pen for the extra starter to head there (beachy or even medlen could potentially pitch out of the pen short term)