The Mariners have a "strong" trade market for Nick Franklin, as several teams have shown interest in the young second baseman, FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal and Jon Morosi report (Twitter link). Franklin went from being Seattle's second baseman of the future to an obvious trade candidate following the team's signing of Robinson Cano, and given his pedigree, it's no surprise that teams are looking to acquire a promising, controllable talent.
Franklin, 22, was taken by the Mariners with the 27th overall pick of the 2009 draft and he entered the season ranked as the 47th-best prospect in the game by MLB.com and as the 79th-best by Baseball America. The 2013 Baseball America Prospect Handbook ranked Franklin as the fifth-best prospect in Seattle's system, saying "he profiles as a solid regular who could play in a few All-Star Games." Franklin hit .287/.360/.459 with 46 homers and 63 steals (out of 81 chances) over 1756 minor league PA, and then hit .225/.303/.382 with 12 homers in 412 PA with the Mariners in 2013, his first taste of Major League action.
Since Franklin has a lot of minor league experience at shortstop, the M's could also make him Cano's double play partner and shop incumbent shortstop Brad Miller instead. Miller, however, actually outhit Franklin in both the majors and the minors and (while he isn't a great defender) is better suited to shortstop than Franklin, so Miller could have more value to the Mariners going forward.
With Cano, Omar Infante and even secondary options like Kelly Johnson, Mark Ellis and Brian Roberts off the board, teams looking for second base help have precious little left on the free agent market. The Blue Jays stand out as a would-be contender with a hole at second base, while teams like the Braves and Mets could have a need for a promising young second baseman if they move their current keystone position stalwarts (Dan Uggla and Daniel Murphy, respectively) who have been rumored to be on the trade market themselves.
Player might be available? Link him to the Blue Jays!
Really need to turn Franklin into a valuable piece. RH OF preferably CF or a SP.
Chris Denorfia and Robbie Erlin for Frankiln. This fills holes for Seattle and enables Padres to move Gyorko to third and Trade Headley.
Seattle would not do that. Denorfia is a nice player but Franklin has legit potential.
Eh, I think it’s Padres who turn that down. Franklin had 0.4 fWAR last year and most teams try to avoid poor defenders up the middle. M’s won’t get that much. His prospect history don’t mean beans anymore.
his 5 years of club control, age and potential might argue otherwise.A 33 year old OF whos a free agent next year for that? Pass
And a SP that is ML ready who projects mid rotation who has appeared on top 100 lists as well.
Mariners really don’t need young pitching.
Yes agreed. I don’t see a fit with San Diego whatsoever. Unless they offered up Max Fried.
They need any SP they can get. They’re looking at starting two rookies next year. That usually doesn’t work out well.
That would be fine by me. I don’t want Denorfia or Erlin for Franklin.
I don’t think Seattle could get significantly more value than that. Plugs two holes using surplus. Franklin is nice but he’s not all star ceiling, IMO.
I really strongly disagree. A top 50 prospect who plays up the middle. Showed power potential at 22 years old. High ceiling guy.
Erlin is an interesting piece, but I think you’re overvaluing Denorfia a bit. He had a nice season but he’s more of a righty platoon guy, and the Mariners just picked up Guti for that role, plus he only has one year of control
Eh, we will give you Liriano for Franklin
Franklin is a more highly regarded prospect than Gyorko is/was…fyi. What would you trade Gyorko for? Would you trade him Denorfia/Erlin?
Doubt it.
Wow. Prospect rankings don’t mean much. Gyorko is better offensively and defensively than Franklin. Gyorko was a top 50 Prospect before he was promoted anyways.
And Franklin was 22nd. 3years younger than Gyorko.
How will Franklin’s numbers look to Gyorko’s in 2years when he’s Gyorko’s age 25 as Gyorko was this season?
Franklin has a very high ceiling thus his higher ranking over Gyorko let him progress.
The question to you was would you trade Gyorko for Denorfia/Erlin?
Baseball America ranked Jedd Gyorko No. 71 and Nick Franklin No. 79 in its 2013 preseason prospect rankings. Gyorko, however, is two-and-a-half years older than Franklin.
Your argument is like me saying Bauer is a more highly regarded prospect than Tony Cingrani and then equating the two. SMH
He fell off in the 2nd half of 2013, but his 1st half numbers in 2013 were an amazing replica of his entire Minor League career with a 290/360/480 slash line in the majors. That…along with all those club controlled years is some Very valuable with the salaries that are getting dished out these days.
Legit potential or not, the rest of the league is not blind either. They know Seattle has to move either him or Miller or else that legit potential will get wasted on the bench or in AAA. The Mariners are not going to get the same type of deal for Franklin that they could have gotten before the Cano deal.
Hmm, one possibility- maybe try to trade for Justin Upton?
A cheaper trade option would be Joey Terdoslavich, who might hit well in SEA, and nab a decent prospect for Terdo+Perarza maybe?
Gose and Drabek from the Jays sound good?
Not really.
I think Franklin is a *stud*.
It SHOULD take a ton to pry this kid from the Mariners.
You’re right, it should. But given Z’s track record with trades, I don’t think it’s likely.
Studs usually hit better than .225 in the major leagues with a 96 OPS+. At the moment he is either bench fodder or a AAA second baseman hoping for a Cano injury. The Mariners will never get a good deal for him because the rest of the league knows they need to trade him now.
Actually, they don’t *need* to trade him. He has at least one option left, and considering that he looked quite strong soon after his call-up, some seasoning in AAA might do him some good.
But even if some seasoning does do some good, he won’t be displacing Cano anytime soon. In other words they need to trade him or he will lose all value.
I actually do agree with this statement (mainly). He’s still young. One more season at AAA wouldn’t KILL his value, but if he underperforms even slightly, it really could.
He was 22 last season. Most players don’t see the bigs until 23-25. A 22-year old rookie middle infielder who OPS+’d 96 (slightly below average for ALL MLB players) and hit 12 HR while stealing 6 bases in 102 games? That sounds like a pretty damn valuable player if you ask me.
I’m not saying that he is not going to be a very good MLB player. I am saying he is not going to be a very good MLB player for the Mariners. He does have value, but he doesn’t have as much value as before the Cano signing. MLB general managers are pretty astute people. They realize that the Mariners don’t have a place for Franklin and are going to try and buy him low. The Mariners will eventually have to sell him low because otherwise they get nothing for him but a AAA second baseman or a utility infielder. Franklin is better than that, but not on the Mariners.
for rasmus? although i think hes a FA soon
It’s such a logical fit for both teams. Yeah, Rasmus is a FA after 14 so It’d probably have to involve other players. M’s aren’t giving up 5 years of team control with Franklin for one year of Rasmus straight up.
Ackley?
But that 5 years of control is on the bench for the Mariners. Franklin is not going to displace Cano and the rest of the league knows this. Someone is going to get Franklin for pennies on the dollar.
I like that, but because of the soon to be FA status of Rasmus I think it would take more to land Franklin.
The Mets are a little expendable in the pitching department and need a better shortstop…
Franklin really shouldn’t play shortstop, he wasn’t even very good at 2B last year
The Mets could take him as their short stop in the short term until next offseason (when there is a deep SS free agent class) and then shift him to 2B in 2015 or trade him
Why put him at short? Keep him at 2nd & see what’s out there on the SS trade market. Last I checked, Texas still feels inclined to deal Andrus, even after dealing Kinsler, and should Texas eat a chunk of that contract, I see a match. As far as Franklin not being good at 2nd last year, at least he would be a huge step up from Murphy.
Defensive WAR:
Franklin: 0.7
Murphy: -1.5
Trading for him with the intention of putting him at 2B completely defeats the purpose of trading for him all together. Why would you trade a prospect of equal value so that you can acquire a guy for the one position you actually have depth in?
Guys like Herrera & Mazz are years away and you don’t exactly know what you’re gonna get from them yet, so let’s take away the depth perception for a minute. Between Flores & Franklin for 2nd base, I’d take Franklin because of his advantage on defense, power, and speed. It really says something when the Mets rather look at Eric Young Jr of all people to start 2nd base over Flores. As far as Murphy goes, I see him going to 1st base because of the good chance of the Mets trading Davis to Pittsburgh. The idea of a Andrus-Franklin defense up the middle ultimately makes them that much better & fills a big void in our infield.
So, in a team with multiple holes, you want to trade at least one prospect to obtain a guy to play a position where there are already 3 different options on the 25 man roster? On top of that you want to trade multiple prospects for another guy who you have to commit $126.75M to over the next 9 years? Also, where are you getting the money to pull this off?
The biggest hole(s) they have is up the middle! Where is the defense? Sure, you have Murphy, EY Jr and Flores as options, but be real. Murphy is not defensively sound (he plays his position in shallow RF!), only thing EY Jr brings to the table is speed, and I’ve already explained the difference between Franklin & Flores. As far as Andrus goes, any team that takes interest in him, Texas realizes that they’re gonna have to eat a chunk of that contract owed to Andrus if they’re gonna move him. Let’s not forget about that little opt out clause in 2018 & 2019.
The only reason Andrus is going to opt out is if he thinks he can get even more money. Why would a team give up 3-5 prospects for Franklin AND Andrus when they can give up no prospects, settle with internal options at 2B and get a SS at a much more reasonable contract next offseason. Your plan only benefits for 2014, which is really a lost season, making this very short sighted
Are you serious? You are worried about giving up PROSPECTS for a 22 & 24 year old, who are nowhere near their primes, would be difference makers in the present & future (not just 2014) & would be more beneficial to the youth movement the Mets have been building for years? You’re being prospect drunk on guys who are years away! There’s nobody among SS FAs who will be within the defensive caliber of Andrus next offseason. Think about this: Even if Andrus opts out, and I expect him to, being that he’ll still be in his prime, by then, Amed Rosario will be ML ready. Rosario is the only middle infield prospect I see in our system who I believe will be a stud. I dont see 2014 as a lost season as Puello will be up a few months into the season, giving us the OF power bat they need in the middle of the order, so they could be in the mix. Only thing they need from there is a late inning veteran reliever.
No, I’m not worried about prospects. I just don’t see the need to get rid of them when there are capable SS free agents in 2014 and internal options at 2B. Your need to satisfy your immediate gratification in 2014 is short sighted. Even if it wasn’t, the Mets don’t need to be committing $15M a year to a SS when they could sign one for significantly less and keep their prospects
How do you say in the beginning that you’re not worried about prospects, but say in the end about going cheap & keeping prospects? Tell me exactly who would be available in next offseason’s FA market that would be so much better than Andrus. Hanley? If you’re worried about committing $15 million a year to a player, then he’s already out of your range. Then what? Asdrubal? Aviles? A declining Jeter & Rollins? Hardy & Lowrie will most likely decline QO’s so they’re out. Nothing is out there. I’m tired of the Omar Quintanillas of the world. That’s what you’re basically asking for: Cheap backups that will give us no real solution, just another hole. As far as internal options at 2nd base goes, remember years ago how our “internal 2B option” Reese Havens was gonna take Castillo’s job? Look at him now. This is why you shouldn’t hype up guys that are years away.
1. I’m not worried about prospects but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to be reckless with them
2. Hanley might cost the same in salary but he won’t cost 2-4 prospects
3. What do you have against Asdrubal?
4. Why are Hardy and Lowrie out? I would much rather give up ONE draft pick that might be 3-4 years away then the 2-4 prospects that you have already developed that it would take for Andrus
5. I (as well as you) just named 4 SS that will be on the market that would be serviceable along with 3 others that are less desirable, making it a buyers market. With just one SS left in free agency this is clearly a sellers market so you are going to overpay for anyone you get
6. Reese Havens at AA is a lot different then Murphy, EY Jr, who are proven major leaguers, as well as Wilmer Flores who has had a taste of pro ball
Did you happen to catch Riccardi’s recent comments? He’d rather have proven ML guys than prospects, and here you are worrying about losing 2-4 prospects for a proven defensive stud like Andrus.
Might? Hanley is gonna command at least $100+ million next offseason, especially if he has a better year injury free from last season. Cabrera doesn’t get on base enough (last 3 seasons, .324 OBP), strikes out a ton and his power has declined. Hardy & Lowrie are in their 30s and won’t be worth the multi-year deal they will be commanding next season over $15 million, different from what the Mets gave up for Granderson already this offseason. All Murph & EY Jr have proven to be are one-dimensional players, and the Mets may not even be all that confident in Flores’s defensive ability. Why else would they consider EY Jr, who can’t do nothing much other than run, over a kid like Flores?
I didn’t realize we were comparing Riccardi’s comments about giving up one draft pick that may be years away from the MLB to giving up 2-4 prospects that have already been developed to some extent. Not exactly the same thing…
Yea, you can argue that Andrus is a better player than all those guys but you could also argue that Miguel Cabrera is better than all of them. That doesn’t mean the Mets should trade the entire farm system for Miguel Cabrera. Your right, I don’t want Hanley but the beautiful thing about that is someone else will and he will fill a hole for another team with a SS need, and most likely it will be a big market club such as the Yankees, taking them out of the running for the other SS. The fact of the matter is that you aren’t getting Andrus for anything less then Syndergaard and 1-2 other premium prospects. There’s no way I’m doing that. If they sign, let’s say Lowrie (I don’t go into specific players because a lot can happen in a year), they would give up substantial money, but not $150M, and a draft pick that in all likeihood would be a high school player that is 4-5 years away.
You also completely disregarded my original proposal. Trading for Franklin would make him the SS in 2013 and give them a options in 2014 because they can either move forward with him at SS, trade him, or move him to 2B if you really aren’t happy with Murphy/Flores/EY Jr. There is no reason to be committing to guys like Andrus in a year that is still a rebuild year. Flexibility is underrated because everyone wants immediate gratification. Personally, I’m happy with the infield as is. Tejada is 24. The average AA player is 23 so as far as I’m concerned he’s just a prospect who has been developing at the major league level. Give him this year. If he fails move on. If he succeeds you just solved your problem for no prospects and virtually no money
You’re seriously happy with the infield as is? You do realize if they get rid of Davis, you’ll have Tejada, Murphy, AND Duda in your infield? That’s another 70+ win season there, if that. Also, Andrus wouldn’t cost us Syndergaard. Texas doesn’t have someone big enough that would cost us someone like that. Maybe Montero, but not Syndergaard.
It would, ubdoubtedly, take Syndergaard. There is just no debating that. If you think otherwise you clearly must be one of those fans who thinks every other team is just waiting to hand over their players for the Mets’ sake. And about the infield next year, why wouldn’t I be happy with that? The Mets are not contenders next year so they could run out my local little league team for all I care
Stop saying stalwart
Going through these pages is a joke, To be honest, between Getz, Casilla, whoever is available it’s all the same. Stop tricking yourself. Franklin for who? A reliever, prospect, infielder? No chance.
C’mon Hahn… Pull off another big trade here! Chi Sox!
What about Gordon Beckham?
Was given a fair shot… every day looks like another Chris Getz…
Trade Ackley instead and put Franklin in center since he has experience in the outfield.
Did Franklin play in the OF in the minors? I know he didn’t in the Majors and if he did in the Minors it wasn’t much. Not enough to throw him out there without some seasoning in the Minors, especially up the middle in CF.
Franklin did not play the outfield in the minors. Just 2b and SS. Switching Ackley all over the field did not work out well, I would be hesitant to do the same with Franklin as well.
Him raising his average to .253 from a measly .200 by going down to the minors and focusing on not being a 2b seemed to help.
I disagree with your thesis, good sir.
Well I just mean that switching young players to play a different position can effect them at the plate. as well as their confidence. I will say though that I think its much easier for a natural middle infielder to play the outfield than visa versa.
0 innings logged in OF.
“Round 1: Nick Franklin, SS, Lake Brantley High School (Longwood, Fla.): Franklin is a versatile player who started at shortstop for Lake Brantley’s 2008 state title team, hitting .433 with six home runs, 12 doubles and 38 runs scored. He also can pitch and play the outfield. The switch-hitter has verbally committed to play baseball at Auburn University.”
Just high school but if the Mariners plan on using him as a super utility player, chances are, he’s going to get some outfield rust out of the way. Maybe not throw him into the fire right out of the gate but the Mariners can platoon Gutierrez and Franklin for awhile. Cannot be worse than Ibanez and Morse.
M’s have a lot of trade pieces in Ackley, Smoak and franklin. If Jack Z is smart, he can flip them for some good talent.
Ackley’s not worth anything to speak of. Smoak maybe a reliever. Think about it this way, what teams don’t have a 1B better than Smoak, and a 2B better than Ackley? Very few. Brewers and Pirates for 1B, Blue Jays and Braves for 2B. Might be about it. Very small market.
The perception that Ackley is horrible is exactly why the M’s should keep him and allow him to develop.
That’s because he is horrible.
It’s true.
Cubs for the 2B department
Maybe for Lake and a bullpen arm?
Ackley? No I wouldn’t give up Lake, I think he’ll be a utility guy or solid OF, but I’d probably wanna give them someone a bit older with a guy like vogelboch.
Vogelbach? So you’d give up a guy that Mariners have absolutely no need for. Which would make the Cubs a club that is not ideal to trade with. The Mariners do not need a 1B/DH. They have way too many. Mariners need a RH major league ready everyday OF who is healthy and can defend and hit some.
Franklin should be a very solid #2 or #7hitter for a team. He’ll warm up in the offensive categories.
I’m surprised Miami wouldn’t be in on him nor, San Fran.
I would love to see San Francisco make a move for him.
Don’t they already have Scutaro at 2b? Don’t see a fit
Scutaro is signed through the end of the year. Even still, with his age, his declining ability to play 2nd, and his injury-status from last year, I think Franklin might actually see more time at second if Scutaro can’t stay healthy.
Scutaro is a band-aid at 2b. Franklin is a cornerstone to build with beyond just 2014. San Fran could really use some offensive potential on their team
Scutaro isn’t that bad, he’s been a 2+ war player every year since 2008. I love Franklin a lot but he’s still relatively unproven in the majors while Scutaro has been solid for years
Scutaro is also 38 and has 2 years left on his contract. His age and his injuries from last season could be a problem. Franklin would make a great platoon piece until he’s ready to start, or to have on hand in case of injury.
Wow, didn’t realize his age was getting up there and didn’t know about the injury issues. Maybe Franklin could make some sense for SF, I’m not very familiar with their team though
Given that Scutaro can play 2B and 3B, and a poor SS, I’m sure they could get enough ABs for everyone…even if they all are healthy
With Sandoval and Scutaro having injury issues in the past, it may be nice to have a better option than Abreu or Arias.
Scutaro is 38 years old and couldn’t get an extra-base hit if there were no outfielders. His place is on the bench at this point in his career, with a younger guy like Franklin or Ackley starting. But the Giants are extremely loyal to their veterans, so their next move is to extend Scutaro through his age-45 season.
What are the Mariners needs? I would love my Chisox to get him.
SP and OF. I would love a deal involving Quintana but maybe something involving De Aza is more realistic…
A deal like that makes sense.
No to De Aza Franklin has way more value than what De Aza does.
Seattle needs an excelling OF blocked.
Joc Pederson from LAD?
I don’t love De Aza either, but I was just looking for a fit between the teams. Certainly not an ideal choice. Pederson would be a great pick up.
I would love that too, but I don’t see it happening since Franklin would be blocked for the future there. The Dodgers signed Guerrero long term to play 2B.
Oh dang, I keep forgetting the Dodgers picked Guerrero up.
Guerrero could move to 3B, or he could move to SS and have Hanley move to third. It’s not like Uribe is a long-term option.
A lot of Franklin’s value went out the door with the Cano signing. Everyone now knows that Seattle pretty much has to trade him. Someone will get him relatively cheaply.
Pederson would be to much
What, How do you figure? It doesn’t matter, I’ve been told Alex Guerrero is the Dodgers 2b of the future so Franklin doesn’t really fit with LA anymore
You are 100% right, I think they value him very highly as well though and would only move him in a deal for a proven impact player. Just a hunch though, everyone can be wrong. Didn’t think Towers would give Bauer up that easily, but he did so.
Outfield
Viciedo or De Aza for Franklin
I think the M’s would listen to Viciedo. Could build something around those two guys.
I wouldnt do it…I just think the Mariners would listen on it. They love power
Actually, I think that they would listen to De Aza
Viciedo’s OBP is horrible. De Aza would have to be involved, not Viciedo. Plus, the White Sox really don’t have anything else the Mariners need.
Franklin’s OBP was .303, a little lower than Viciedo, do you really think you are going to get someone with a .400 OBP for him?
And Franklin’s batting average was .225 compared to Viciedo’s .265 with a OBP of .304. Do you really think you’re getting anywhere with this? Viciedo cannot take a walk, Franklin can. Franklin usually struggles his first year at a new level. After that, all he does is hit.
So you argument is that Franklin is better BECAUSE his batting average is lower? That makes perfect sense.
Singles are better than walks, no matter what Moneyball says. A walk doesn’t advance runners unless they are forced. A single/hit advances any runners on base. A single following a double probably gets your team a run. A walk following a double sets up a double play/force out at third.
But I’m sure there is some theory out there that will refute everything I just said.
No, my argument is walk rate and OBP. Players with low walk rates or declining walk rates do not age well in the long run. Viciedo is far below average on walks taken by a MLB player. Even in the minors, Viciedo cannot take a walk. Adam Jones is one of the few but Viciedo is not an Adam Jones. My point is, Franklin gets on base just as much as Viciedo with a lower average. And I also added the little bit that Franklin improves greatly in his sophomore year of any level. Which means his average is sure to go up. Viciedo’s defense isn’t very good either, Franklin’s is.
But Franklin’s defense isn’t going to help on the bench. Viciedo is a proven major league outfielder. Sure he’s not the best ever, but he is probably around league average.
Players usually don’t improve in their sophomore seasons in the big leagues. In fact, they usually get worse. It’s called a sophomore slump. You can’t compare getting better in the minors in your second season because the guys you struggled against in your first year were probably just promoted. They aren’t promoted out of the big leagues, they just figure you out even more. The best players usually overcome that sophomore slump and improve after that.
Yes it will, as a super utility player. He won’t be a liability to put out there no matter where you put him. Everything I’ve read about Viciedo’s defense has been bad. He’s probably below average. I also realized that he’s being paid like a veteran.
Also, I know about the sophomore slump. Nick Franklin, however, has thrived through the minors and I have no doubt he’ll avoid it. Viciedo, on the other hand, isn’t looking any better than he did in the minors.
A super utility player? If you think that even the best SUPs are better than a starting outfielder/DH with 25+ homer potential, then we are just done here. We will just have to agree to disagree I guess.
The Mariners have already said they’ll use Nick Franklin (If he doesn’t get traded along with Ackley and Miller) as a super utility player after they signed Cano….
They need speed on the basepaths, outfielders, a defensive catcher to help Zunino and possibly Montero if he catches again, another bullpen arm or two, and maybe a 3-5 starter.
Viciedo/De Aza and Matt Lindstrom
Let me rephrase that, a good bullpen arm and they don’t need De Aza because he’s a lefty who had reverse splits last year. Viciedo is bad and Lindstrom, lol.
Montero is converting to 1B/DH and will not catch again except in an emergency capacity.
J.A Happ, Colby Rasmus, Sergio Santos and Sean Nolin for Franklin and Paxton.
ha
As a Mariner fan, I would take that trade in a heartbeat.
As a Jays fan so would I.
Ok. Let’s hope the GM’s make that trade
And thats why you are not GM. Nolin is arguably better of a prospect than Paxton, and Happ, Santos and Rasmus is way too much for a potential ~2-3 WAR player.
Santos is a ticking time bomb, not to mention Jays are dealing from strength from the BP. J.A Happ is no more than a 4th to 5th SP, Rasmus if he puts up similar to greater numbers this season, will probably price himself out of the Toronto Market. As far as Nolin goes, you have to give up something of value to gain. I’ll roll the dice on filling a hole by shoring up 2B for the next 6 yrs by acquiring Franklin, and bet on Paxton developing to a 2 or 3 SP. That’s why YOU are not a GM. You have zero imagination.
I tend to not get into arguments, but please never say Nolin is in the same class as Paxton prospect wise. Could he end up having a better career? Sure. However as a prospect Paxton has the superior stuff. If you go off of numbers that would mean Kyle Hendricks is arguably a better prospect than Stroman, and Sanchez. Not going at you just explaining that numbers don’t always tell the story in the minors.
I would if a Rasmus extension happened.
terrible deal. maybe Franklin and Smoak for Nolin and Rasmus
Nick Franklin for Ichiro haha jk. But maybe Gardner?
Only if Gardener signs a 5 year extension for less than $15AAV
I don’t see him going all Brady Ellsbury and jacking HRs to drive up his price ne time soon.
As an elite defender who is an OBP machine, in a year that is pretty barren for FA talent, he won’t need to.
Two OBP machine years in 5. And you can really throw out 1 in 2012 b/c it was 16 games and throw out the .283 rookie year b/c it was 42 games. So 3 good, 1 machine haha. But Bourn is the ceiling on any contract really. I can’t see a team going beyond that.
That’s more of what I was thinking. We need a future CF and leadoff guy. Yankees want more for Gardner though.
More than Franklin for Gardner? I kind of doubt it, and I’m a Yankee fan and Gardner fan (I don’t really want them to trade him). But since they signed Roberts (and also have Johnson and Ryan) I’m guessing something with Franklin couldn’t be worked out, if it were even discussed. Right now I think they would only trade Gardner for a starting pitcher.
Some of these proposals are horrible. The Mariners arent just going to give him away. If they don’t receive a quality big league OF or SP or a controllable asset, they will just put him in AAA. Franklin is the best trade chip they have that they are willing to part with. They are not going to waste that on Chris Denorfia or Brett Gardner.
They will for a young outfielder or a starting pitcher with plenty of control left.
did i not say that?
Nick Franklin and James Paxton for Bautista
I don’t think the Blue jays would do that, but the Mariners probably would.
Interesting Proposal
I think the Blue Jays wait until the 2015 season to trade Bautista. FA in ’16, they will try and get all they can out of Bautista before they trade him.
Paxton previously refused to sign with the Jays so I am not seeing the happy reunion… despite that being a terrible offer
Doesn’t need to be happy. He has no trade rights. Obviously the Jays wanted them if they tried signing him so this way they get their man and mariners get a corner power OF. We’ll add Saunders in there too to make it a little more fair
I’d do this. For both sides.
That doesn’t mean the Blue Jays are going to rush out and trade for him. If they know he’ll hate it there, that often means poor performance. Toronto won’t add a guy who doesn’t want to be a part of their team.
Who says he hates it there? Maybe they just couldn’t work out a deal they both agreed on. I doubt he would put his whole career on the line and start pitching poorly anyways
Paxton refused to sign a deal with Toronto when he was drafted. I don’t think he would desire to go there still.
He was holding out for money.
Would you want a guy that you drafted very high, offered tons of money and he turned it down cause he wanted more? I would think the Jays might take that into consideration, yes they loved the player but the player made it clear he didnt want to be on their team… he has no rights here but might not be someone they want now
Heck yeah!
Exactly Jordan. For 1 yr of Gardner, sending Franklin would be too much. Ackley for Gardner is more like it, with Franklin being reserved in a more meaningful trade package. Guys Seattle has that I can see in a major package deal…and NO Seattle needs to keep Walker/Paxton & Zunino out of the trade block:
1. Franklin
2. Ackley
3. Smoak
4. E-Ramirez
5. Mauer
6. Saunders
7. Noesi
8. Montero
That’s a Lot of MLB ready talent and potential. I got a feeling TB ends up trading Price to Seattle WithOut getting Walker/Paxton Or even Zunino. They’ve been very disappointed with all the offers from other teams around MLB for Price. Teams are valuing these young and controlled players a lot more than a few years ago. We all have admired how TB has been successful in landing these club controlled players, and continue from year in and year out have one of the best farms in MLB.
No way TB gives up David Price without Seattle giving up either Paxton or Walker… never, ever, ever, ever. Ever.
There’s a way. It would probably just be a 5 for 1 deal with Franklin and guys in the Mariners’ top 10 prospects. Franklin, Taylor, Marlette, Diaz, and Sanchez might get it done.
I agree, the Mariners won’t give up Walker Zunino, and probably not Paxton either. Fact is, the Rays don’t have any teams that are desperate, and the ones that are don’t have the prospects.
I bet they could. The Rays are not in a good bargaining position at all. No teams are desperate, the ones that are don’t have good prospects, and everyone has already seen what happened with Sugura-Greinke and then Myers-Shields. And, everyone knows the Rays have to give up Price, and he won’t extend with the Mariners.
No way Walker is in a deal, and probably not Zunino either. I’d even bet Paxton wasn’t involved. Rays will have tough luck finding anything. Who do you think would realistically offer more?
If Price goes to the Mariners for Paxton or Walker and couple other players, who would be available in 2014 MLB Draft that will be ready to pitch in MLB by 2016 either Rodon of NC State or Jeff Hoffman of East Carolina? Baseball needs to change the draft system similar to the NFL/NHL to make trades and drafting easier. One of Roger Goodell’s assistants as the deputy that is ready to be a commish can take over Selig once he retires.
How about the Twins offering Aaron Hicks in a straight 1-1 deal. The Twins could really use him at ss and they do have alot of young outfielders in their system.
I reckon you’re a Twins fan?
Hicks is a 5 tool player who had a bad start to his major league career last year. I don’t know if the Twins would even trade Hicks.
Probably not, since his value is so minuscule.
Bingo … it’s hard to find a more comparable value, given each team’s respective needs, than a trade of six years of switch-hitting infielder Nick Franklin for six years of switch-hitting Minnesota centerfielder Aaron Hicks.
Oliver projects a five-year WAR of 14.7 for Franklin and 14.8 for Hicks, who is 17 months older than Franklin. Franklin has 126 days of MLB service while Hicks has 124 days of MLB service.
Hicks is listed behind Josh Willingham, Alex Pressley and Oswaldo Arcia on the Minnesota depth chart in the outfield (with top prospect Byron Buxton waiting in the wings):
Hicks flopped in his MLB debut in 2013 (making the initial jump from Double A), while Franklin faded down the stretch.
In its 2011 preseason prospect rankings, Baseball America had Hicks at No. 45 and Franklin at No. 53. Neither player was ranked in 2012, but in 2013 BA had Hicks at No. 72 and Franklin at No. 79.
In 102 games this season, Franklin was valued at 0.4 and 2.3 WAR by FanGraphs and Baseball Reference, respectively. In 81 games this season, Hicks was valued at -0.7 and 0.7 WAR, respectively.
Steamer projects a 2014 WAR of 0.2 for Hicks in 32 games and 0.1 for Franklin in 50 games while Oliver projects at 2014 WAR of 2.8 for Hicks and 2.6 for Franklin in 143 games apiece.
Hicks was the 14th player taken in the 2008 draft while Franklin was the 27th player taken in the 2009 draft.
And the minor league stats for Hicks and Franklin:
AH 2192 PA, .269/.376/.418/.794, 323 BB (14.7%), 446 K (20.3%)
NF 1756 PA, .287/.360/.459/.819, 168 BB (9.6%), 338 K (19.2%)
Franklin generally played in hitter-friendlier leagues in the minors, although he typically advanced at a younger age.
How about Ichiro and Wells for Franklin? Seattle gets their hero back, plus a power bat in Wells. Yanks get a 2nd baseman and the future at SS for Jeter?…………………………………
Sarcasm ends.
I was thinking a 3-way trade between the Angels, Yankees, and Mariners.
Yankees get Kendrick, Montero, Saunders
Angels get Franklin, Paxton, Walker
Mariners get Trout.
It’s a typical trade idea we read on the comments anymore.
Do the Yankees actually give anyone up in this proposal 🙂
Haha. I forgot to add Ichiro and Pineda both going back to Seattle as well.
rymier liriano for franklin
M’s will want someone more MLB ready for Franklin+
Mariners, Pirates, and the Phillies can make a three team trade.
Mariners acquire Cliff Lee & Carlos Ruiz.
Pirates acquire Smoak & Dominic Brown.
Phillies acquire Nick Franklin since Utley is aging, Pike or Smith, Wilhelmsen to replace Papelbon, and Tabata or Marte.
Choo can also sign to return back to Seattle for 75 million for three or four years before re signing him later for better deal (that’s why of including Ackley or Saunders in the trade). Who do you think would work in this multi trade?
don’t the Braves have a bunch of young starting pitchers? I’m not going to try and come up with some proposal.
options for the Braves rotation next year..
Minor, Floyd, Beachy, Teheran, Medlen, Wood. there is 6, and they typically only use 5 in a rotation.
Mariners: Price
Rays: Betancourt, Paxton, Pike, Montero
Braves: Franklin, Wilhelmsen, Goraha Vettleson
Why would Tampa take on 2 more catchers? They just made moves to trade for Hanigan and to re-sign Molina.
Those are really good long term options……
Hanigan is signed through 2017… Molina got two more years. Betancourt would be waiting and Montero would be platooning DH.
Montero is not a C. Betancourt has 10x more potential than those two guys. Come on man.
Montero’s Baseball Reference has him at catcher and DH.
He is not a C. Trust me. He will never play there again. The mariners have said so.
He played 26 of his 27 games last season at catcher. Whether or not he’ll still be a catcher, I’m not sure… but he played the bulk of his games at catcher last season… I’ll leave it at that.
Dude. You are helpless. I can’t put it more bluntly than that. He is no longer a C.
Just read the article. Chill out.
LOL. Paxton, Franklin, Pike, Wilhemsen, and Montero (whatever) for Price? No thanks.
Seriously? Paxton, Franklin, Pike, ++ is LOL outrageous? I will try to remember you said this, (but almost certainly will not).
Jays have a history of ripping off the Mariners dating back to the Jose Cruz Jr for Mike Timlin deal in the early mid 90s to the Steve Delabar for who? To Brandon Morrow for Brandon League.. point being, down vote all the Jays/ Mainers proposals you like, chances are if the Jays deal with the Mariners again, the Jays will fleece the Mariners again. lol
Like the Blue Jays fleeced the Mariners with the Randy Johnson trade?
Mariners got Johnson from the Expos.. epic fail on your part, are you a fan of baseball?
Expos, buddy.
one of those Canadian teams, same thing eh lol.
This is a lousy, heartless way to state fact.
Don’t feel too special. Everyone has a history of fleecing the M’s. That’s what happens when a team hires two horrible GMs back-to-back and hangs onto them for a combined 10 years and counting.
What would it take to get Colby Rasmus to Seattle?
Franklin, Almonte, and maybe a good young prospect like Tyler Pike?
With only 1 yr left prior to being a FA Rasmus isn’t enough for Franklin straight up and all the years they’d be getting club control on Franklin.
Ah yes you’re right, Rasmus would have to agree to an extension with Seattle, probably not going to happen.
This would be true if franklin showed anything yet as a big leaguer and Rasmus wasn’t coming off a career year.
Just because he experienced a tough couple of 2nd half months, doesn’t discredit what he did in the 1st half of his 1st exposure to MLB. His 1st half numbers are Very similar to his stellar Minor League. With a late Spring callup, he’s still got 6 years of club control too.
Oliver projects Rasmus for 3.3 WAR in 2014, Franklin 2.6 WAR. Exactly how is this trade fair in the long run?
Pirates are looking for a platoon partner with Gaby at 1st. Could be interesting to go after Nick Franklin and move Neil Walker to 1st. Walker had an .805 OPS against RHP and a .518 OPS against LHP last year, and Gaby had reverse splits with a .987 and .619 OPS – so the platoon would work really well there. A little outside the box, but it might be a better option than rolling the dice on an Ike Davis.
He isnt free you know
Pirates have a pretty good system you know
I know that. I’m just saying you’d have to give up something that is valuable to you. As in something that is ML ready or close. I dont see how the pirates match up with the Mariners in that regard.
I feel like that was pretty obvious that they would have to trade a player to get him.
The pirates dont have an obvious trade piece the Mariners would want that Pitt would be willing to give up. Thats the problem. They need OFs, which Pitt isnt going to deal and a #3 pitcher. Not seeing how Nick Franklin could be a Bucco if they dont match up in a trade.
Polanco or Marte if the Mariners added some non Walker/Paxton pitching to the deal. Sanchez and/or Pike and/or Diaz.
How about six years of righthander Brandon Maurer and three years of firstbaseman Justin Smoak, who mashes righthanded pitching, in a platoon with Gaby Sanchez, for three years (plus three option years) of outfielder Jose Tabata and another player?
Chase Headley + Burch Smith for Nick Frankin, Tyler Pike, and Ketel Marte.
Chase Headley + Robbie Erlin for Nick Franklin, Tyler Pike, Ketel Marte, and Carson Smith.
If the Mariners acquire a SP along with Headley they add a bat to pair with Cano and can feel better about moving someone or even Smith/ Erlin for price.
Why would the Mariners want Headley with Seager already at third?
Switch hitting DH with some power. That and they can always move him to 1st and get rid of Smoak. I’m sure mariner fans would love Headley as a DH or their 1B instead of Montero, Morales, Smoak.
No. They have Morrison Smoak and Hart.
Where would you put LoMo and Hart?
Here’s how I’d look at it
Hart DH, Morrison Right, Headley 1st. Headley can DH if/when hart gets hurt or needs days off. I mean Morrison is already projected in right with Saunders and Ackley at the other spots. Headley has hit in the 3 hole and a 3-6 line up of Headley cano hart Morrison is better than Smoak Montero and morales.
So we are trading away franklin and pike for one year of headley at 1b?
And Montero is not going to be on the ML team or Morales. Morales wont even be a Mariner more than likely.
I’d give up Franklin, or any bench/AAA guy, for one-year of Headley… not Pike though.
I’m not giving up Franklin for anyone with only 1 yr until FA. Price for 2 years yeah, but Headley for 1 yr? No way. Rasmus I’d love, but for only 1 yr until Rasmus is a FA next offseason…for 6 years of club control on Franklin? No way.
Hell, if that was the route, Id rather just resign Morales and trade Smoak. Then flip Franklin to someone else. Stupid trade idea for the Mariners
Heck, Id rather resign Morales and trade smoak. Then flip Franklin elsewhere. Bad trade for the Mariners.
If I were a Padres fan I’d also want Franklin, Pike, and Smith for one year of a decent third baseman and a #3/4 SP prospect. Who cares if the M’s have a comparable player already at 3B, younger and cheaper, and about six pitching prospects better than Erlin. That shouldn’t matter to some guy proposing trades on the web.
Clearly you, nor anyone else, read the kicker to acquiring Erlin/Smith. They can ship them off in a deal for Price instead of Paxton, Hultzen, or whatever pitcher the rays want aside from Walker. Clearly I’d expect the M’s to extend Headley before making this kind of deal which I’m sure they would. Btw Erlin/Smith are MLB ready controllable talent, you know what the rays want for price not prospects that will be ready in 2 3 years from now which aside from Paxton, Walker, Hultzen the M’s don’t have. Send Walker, Erlin/Smith, and Zunino plus another prospect to the Rays for price.
I’ll say what no Mariners fan will, Danny Hultzen has bust tattooed on him. Rays know pitching. They’d ask for more than the package you purpose.
mets really need to get miller trade gee/montero/degrom any 1
Before Peralta signed, I said last year that the cardinals should offer Adams for either miller or franklin.
It made sense for both clubs then. Still makes some sense today, but less for each club
Franklin for BJ Upton
Ugh. Why not XB for Pujols?
Franklin needs to get out of Seattle. In the last few years.every good young hitter turns into a bad hitter there. Their hitting coach must really stink.
Schierholtz for Franklin? Cubs could use a 2B, even with Alcantara on the way.
I think the Cubs would do that in a heartbeat. The Mariners wouldn’t
I hope Franklin is on the Mets radar. If/when the Mets move Murphy, this is the man I want at 2nd base. Mets severely need to upgrade in their middle infield, and I believe they’re a couple trades (or perhaps one should they go the 3-team trade route) away from accomplishing that.
Franklin does look like a guy without a position in Seattle, but if they can’t get a good return for him now they could hang on to him until the trade deadline. It’s a gamble, but it’s quite possible he could have more value then than he has now.
Franklin, Smoak, Pike or Carson Smith, Romero, Taylor, and Wilhelmsen to the Phillies for Papelbon or Cliff Lee & Carlos Ruiz or Dominic Brown would be a great trade for both teams as Utley is getting up in his age and to get younger for the Phills. Smoak then gets traded few days to a week later to the Pirates for Tabata (if Dominic Brown is packaged w/ Cliff Lee to the Mariners) or a minor league player. Lee & Brown/Ruiz makes sense for the Mariners to get back competing for the wild card playoffs to save GM Jack Z’s job in Seattle just like what the Pirates did to Huntington after making the playoffs this past season. 2014 Mariners season will be similar to the 2013 Indians/Pirates season.
If the ChiSox can pry either one of these kids from the M’s, it would fit perfectly into the youth plan. They both have great potential, though I would have a slight preference towards Franklin as opposed to Miller due to the fact that he’s a bit younger and is higher ranked, he’s also a switch-hitter. However, I really like that Miller is able to play multiple positions though and has flashed some power too, he’s also a lefty bat as well, which we definitely need. Both would absolutely rake in the Cell, they definitely have a lot of power potential. Defense might need work for both players, but I think a solution could be found in making Franklin play SS primarily and Miller 2B primarily. Just my thoughts, I really hope that Rick Hahn is looking at these boys to see how to bring either of them to Chi town.