Both the Mets and Yankees have already made notable signings this offseason, but both Big Apple franchises still need bullpen help, according to Andy Martino of the New York Daily News. Mets GM Sandy Alderson told reporters that his team would "take a hard look at" adding veteran relief arms, and to that end, Martino reports that Alderson met with the agent for John Axford and Kevin Gregg on Wednesday. The Orioles, Cubs, Mariners and Indians are some of the many teams who have shown interest in Axford while Gregg's market has been much quieter.
Here are some more items about the Amazins…
- "I think it's more likely if we come up with a 'high-end' shortstop or someone we like, it's more likely to come in a trade," Alderson told reporters, including Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald. This seems to hint that the Mets have moved on from Stephen Drew, though Silverman wonders if Alderson could simply be engaging in some gamesmanship. The Mets have been linked to Drew this winter but aren't eager to give the shortstop a two-year contract.
- The Mets feel like they would have to overpay to sign Drew and keep him from re-signing with the Red Sox, FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal reports (Twitter links). The Mets' next move, therefore, is to acquire a young shortstop in a trade. Rosenthal cites the names of the Diamondbacks' Didi Gregorius and Chris Owings and the Mariners' Brad Miller and Nick Franklin as shortstops who could be candidates to be dealt, though Seattle might not be open to such talks right now since they're "currently preoccupied" with trying to acquire David Price from the Rays.
- With Johan Santana and Jason Bay off the books, the Mets are closer to finding the so-called payroll "sweet spot" when no single player accounts for an overly-large percentage of a team's payroll, Newsday's Marc Carig writes. David Wright accounts for roughly 24% of the Mets' projected 2014 payroll, and while this is a larger share than most teams would prefer, Wright is at least the Mets' best player, Carig notes.
The Mets passing on Drew I think would be wise. He’s going to command a lot of money, and he doesn’t bring much of a bat/OBP with him. I would like to see them get Yunel Escobar, but the ideal SS would be someone that could play the position and leadoff. They desperately need a leadoff hitter, and Eric Young is not the answer.
Except there aren’t a lot of great hitting shortstops out there. It’s a position where defense matters more than offense. Which is what Drew brings to the field.
Absolutely, the only problem is that the Mets lineup is still a little shaky. I would concede offense for a solid defensive SS, but I don’t know if the Mets are in that position. They are conceding their CF for defense and they are putting a lot of trust in an unproven catcher.
Ok good point. But who do you think the Mets should invest in?
The more I think about it I think if it’s possible try to obtain Hak-Ju Lee or maybe Chris Owings, but I don’t know if that’s possible. If Castro is on the market, that may be an option but it will cost them despite a poor 2013. The only thing I like about Y. Escobar is that his numbers are somewhat comparable to Drew and I don’t think it would cost the Mets a ton to get him if Ike Davis is one of the players. Of course, Escobar would be viewed as a temporary solution. The problem is that they don’t have any middle infield depth. They drafted Cecchini in the first round, but he is nowhere close to being considered in the next few seasons.
On defense, he wouldn’t be that much of an improvement over Tejada, especially considering the price. He’d be a much better hitter.
I have been saying wait until next off season. Most of the SS on the market are FA next off season. Why give up prospects to get a SS now? The Mets won’t be competitive this year anyways
The main thing I would not like about the Mets signing Drew is that they’d probably play him every day instead of platooning him with Tejada. Tejada, as bad as his offense is, has close to a career .370 OBP against lefties – much better than Drew.
” David Wright
accounts for roughly 24% of the Mets’ projected 2014 payroll, and while
this is a larger share than most teams would prefer, Wright is at least
the Mets’ best player, Carig notes.” hmmm maybe if they had a reasonable payroll for a NY team it be more around 10-15%..
Exactly. Wright’s contract was extremely fair at the time it was signed and would probably be considered team friendly now. If he continues to produce, it’s going to be a very team friendly contract. The Mets are only paying 20M a year for one of the best 3B in baseball. Just look at the list of players making more than 20M a year. The fact that he takes up a quarter of the Mets payroll does not mean he is getting paid too much, it means the Mets aren’t spending enough. If ownership doesn’t realize this then the team will never be good. Unfortunately, they probably do understand it, they just don’t care. Sigh.
Great point. It’s not so much that Wright’s salary is too high; it’s that the overall payroll is too low.
If you’re going to have to overpay for Drew in terms of years and/or money, he’s probably not worth it. Trading for a young, controllable SS who can lead-off is probably the way to go. I’m not anti-giving Ruben Tejada a shot in 2014, but assuming he’s not part of a trade, having him as a backup infielder strengthens the team that much more.
I’d also prefer the Mets to trade Duda over Ike, since Ike has more upside. Yes, Duda might be mediocre in 2014, but Ike might be completely terrible, so I understand the Mets’ thinking. I think either guy at worst can land the Mets a decent reliever.
Dude, the Cubs and the Mets need to be trading partners. Our MIs for your pitching prospects.
Is Castro on the trading block? I could see the Mets trying to buy low on him even though it would most likely cost them Syndergaard.
The Mets won’t trade Syndergaard or Wheeler, they wouldn’t even do that for Giancarlo Stanton. I like Castro, but I don’t think Montero + would get it done.
I don’t even think the Mets are all that eager to trade Montero in a deal for a SS. I think they’d prefer to give Tejada another shot. If the team is competitive in 2014 but Tejada is completely awful, I think down the line the Mets would then consider trading surplus pitching for a quality young SS.
If they could get a guy like Hak Ju Lee, they do it in a heartbeat. They’ll give Tejada the starting role entering 2014 whether or not they acquire HJL. If Lee struggles against lefties, a Tejada/Lee platoon could get plenty of production for the team considering Tejada’s career .367 OBP against LHP.
That is not a bad suggestion.
Imagine if the Mets do that, and trade Murphy and say Ike, then you could potentially have 3 platoons on the IF:
SS Lee/Tejada
2B EYJR/Flores
1B Duda/Satin
I’m generally for not trading Murphy though, unless the Mets are overwhelmed by an offer, or are doing it to clear salary for something bigger in the works (as opposed to dumping salary for the sake of dumping salary).
Why would we platoon Flores at 2B, though?
Assuming the Mets don’t acquire a second basemen not currently on the roster, it’d be to give him a chance to play, at least vs. LHP. EYJR (on a good team) is not a full time starter — but still has value as a backup/platoon/utility player.
Flores has had 95 career AB’s — I’m not ready to judge him on such a SSS. My hope would be that he starts to rake, and eventually could become the full time second baseman (if Murphy’s traded, and they don’t bring in someone else, etc etc).
Flores, with 0 MLB at bats, was already a better hitter against RHP and LHP than EYJ. I’d have Flores start and keep EYJ to pinch run or play 2B/OF in a pinch. It wouldn’t be a platoon situation.
lol, sounds about right. But I’m not anti-giving EYJR some starts, especially if the Mets have absolutely no leadoff hitter at all (and Flores isn’t hitting a lick). His stolen base ability does compensate for his low OBP to some degree. Plus I would assume EYJR is a better defender than Flores. We’ll see how things shake out.
This is the most hypothetical thread ever btw — Murphy is the second baseman. But I guess that’s what da hot stove is all about, hypothetical stuff.
Wilmer was crushing the ball before he messed up both ankles, and was one of the best hitters in the entire PCL, all at a really, really young age.
Flores, with 0 MLB at bats, was already a better hitter against RHP and LHP than EYJ. I’d have Flores start and keep EYJ to pinch run or play 2B/OF in a pinch. It wouldn’t be a platoon situation.
Why would we platoon Flores at 2B, though?
They will have to trade either Syndergaard of Wheeler to get a great position player prospect.. They should make this move this year.
Look at the projections for both Castro and Tejada. Castro’s better, but barely. It just wouldn’t be an upgrade from an organizational standpoint once you take into account the opportunity cost of losing Montero for Castro as opposed to him staying on the team or being used in a trade for someone else. Let’s face it – Castro’s a lot worse in reality than this imaginary “prospect upside” world we like to live in and would only be a minor upgrade for the team. The power never developed, the guy doesn’t get on base, his attitude is terrible and the asking price is too high.
What do you see in him, exactly?
He’s not as management is giving him another shot with a new manager. I also think it’d cost a bit more than Snydergaard (like add in a top 10 and top 25 spec to the Cubs), even selling low on Castro, since he’s locked up cheap for 7 years.
I would think it would cost Syndergaard and another top 10, and it may end up being a good trade for both teams. I would be surprised if Castro was dealt, and I would also be surprised if Syndergaard is dealt. He has looked scary good in the minors.
All I know that the 2015 rotation is going to look vicious with Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, Niese, and Colon and 2016 is going to look even more vicious when Harvey has a full year back from injury under his belt and Sydnergaard has a full year along with Montero. I just can’t wait to see how they turn out.
How do you know that when Syndergaard has never thrown a big league pitcher? Colon I am a little nervous about because of his age; plus, it seems like whoever the Mets signed are destined for disaster. Wheeler we need to see a full season from, but he looked encouraging down the final stretch of 2013.
I’ve watched Syndergaard pitch. His progression is scary. He reminds me exactly of a mixture of Harvey and Wheeler. Long and lanky but great power and filth breaking pitches. I think he’s above the minor league level. He’s going to be good, from what it looks like. As for Wheeler he went 7-5 with the run support of the Mets. His ERA was 3.42 and was shaky in the beginning. He’ll turn it around.
Even if all those pitchers max out they aren’t better than the Nats pitching on paper!
Was anyone saying they would be better the the Nats pitchers?
Hmmm – a question that nobody is asking, and an answer that is undoubtedly wrong.
I’ve watched Syndergaard pitch. His progression is scary. He reminds me exactly of a mixture of Harvey and Wheeler. Long and lanky but great power and filth breaking pitches. I think he’s above the minor league level. He’s going to be good, from what it looks like. As for Wheeler he went 7-5 with the run support of the Mets. His ERA was 3.42 and was shaky in the beginning. He’ll turn it around.
Colon’s old but he’s been successful and durable as of late. Knocking on the Mets’ luck is delving into mythology, which I can’t really comment on. Syndergaard hasn’t thrown a pitch in the Majors but the question there isn’t about his stuff; it’s about his health. If he stays healthy, he’s a Major League-caliber pitcher. Not necessarily an ace, but at the very least a cost-controlled Majore League pitcher who throws a sinker at 95 with a hammer curve. Wheeler, if he can stay healthy, is also a Major League-caliber pitcher. Both Wheeler and Thor have 1/2 upside.
Add Montero into the mix, and then wild cards like Mazzoni, DeGrom, and Gorski who all could be #5s, #6s, or relievers, and there’s a decent bit of depth.
Yeah, but you still need an offense.
You gotta hope at that point the Wilpons open up the checkbook as you guys don’t have a lot on the farm for position prospects.
They’ve already started doing that.
IT’s all fantasy when you talk about pitching a year ahead of time. Harvey may never be the pitcher he was last year being injured at such a young age, and Wheeler Syndergaard are un proven. This is not a sure thing by any means.
Yeah, it’s not going to happen. But it probably should. Especially if your window with Wright/Granderson is open now and the pitching won’t be here until 2016 fully, after the Wright/Granderson time is on the downward spiral.
Baez projects to be better than Syndrgaard!
Baez is not a pitcher!
Annnnnd?
Baez is someone the Mets would undoubtedly trade Syndergaard for. The Cubs consider him untouchable, though, and rightly so. Baez projects to be better than Castro in 2014, let alone when he has a little bit more seasoning.
The guy hit 37 home runs in LESS THAN 600 PA. That’s mind-boggling. It’s Giancarlo Stanton playing SS.
The Mets don’t need a defensive specialist. They need offense at the position. Castro’s easily better than Tejada offensively but at the same time, he’s not so much better that it makes sense for the Mets to trade one of the best pitching prospects in the entire game to get him.
lol the Mets are not going to trade Syndergaard straight up for Starlin Castro, let alone give up even more beyond that. From all accounts he has ace stuff, and not that he’s gonna be Harvey (or Wheeler), so far he’s exceeded the numbers they both put up in the minors. I’d rather overpay for Stephen Drew than trade Syndergaard, especially in any trade that doesn’t bring back some impact bat that brings a minimum .850-.900 OPS with it.
It’s ridiculous that your comment even needs to be made, since it’s so obvious. Hear hear!
You do know you’re talking about an SS who has gotten worse offensively the longer he plays in the Majors, right? The guy put up a .280 OBP last year. The Cubs should bail on him the second they have another SS ready. The Mets need an offensively-minded SS, not a defensive specialist, which Castro is well on his way to becoming.
Why Castro? He’s not even on the list of Cubs middle infielders I would consider trading for. I’d take Alcantará 10/10 over the overrated and regressing Castro. Castro was going to be the next “Reyes” but he’s fallen far short of that and between his problems on and off the field just isn’t a guy the Mets should go after.
Zilla, I’ve been saying this for along time, the Mets should trade some of their top pitching for either Castro, Almora, or Baez
Castro, no, since it’s not much of an offensive upgrade over Tejada. Baez, no, because there’s not a chance that the Cubs trade him. If they were to consider it, though, the Mets would be justified in packaging at least one of Wheeler or Syndergaard + Montero + somebody else to get him. Guys just don’t hit 37 homers in less than 600 plate appearances, and less so while fielding at 2B or SS. Almora is an outfielder.
The heck with this discussion — I love your name.
The Mets are not in a payroll “sweet spot.” They are located in the largest city in the US, their team is the 6th most valuable franchise in baseball, and they have a payroll in bottom half of the league.
Are you surprised though? The Wilpons have been trying to sell this narrative that the Mets are a financially challenged team and have to operate like they’re in a small market for YEARS. It’s absurd, but sadly it looks like they are beginning to convince people. When will MLB intervene and give the franchise to someone who wants to operate it like a franchise located in NYC that owns its own tv network?
The Mets have been in the wait till next year mode for the last 4 years.
maybe once selig steps down. He and the wilpons are close friends and the only reason they still own the franchise when he loaned them money a few years ago
Here’s a dose of reality: The “small market” theme has only been post-Madoff. Wilpon bought out the team completely from Doubleday in 2002. Here are the Mets’ payroll ranks, in terms of spending, from 2002 on:
2002: 6th
2003: 2nd (after the Yankees)
2004: 4th
2005: 3rd
2006: 5th
2007: 3rd
2008: 2nd
2009: 2nd
2010: 5th
2011: 7th
2012: 14th
2013: 23rd
The Madoff scandal really started affecting the team’s finances in 2009-2010. Before that point, the Wilpons had ALWAYS poured money into the team. The bad product they consistently put out was due to poor front office/drafting/player development/etc but not due to the money.
Gregg has Frank Francisco Part II written all over him. Axford on the other hand would be a pretty decent pickup
I said this a while ago but the Mets going after Chris Owings would be an excellent move to the D-Backs who need a starter which the Mets could give with Montero and maybe Fulmer or DeGrom
Of course the Mets would have to overpay for Drew. Bad teams with little hope for contention need to pay more for free agents. That’s how free agency works.
The Mets have to over pay for any player at this point, who wants to play for the Mets. They are like Seattle.
Oh really? And why is that?
I’d be very happy with this offseason if they get Gregorius or Owings. I’ve been saying for a long time to pair up with the D’Backs because of their surplus at SS.
Drew costs too much. Rather trade for Nick Franklin.
Would like to see the Mets pick up a reliever with closing experience but hell no to Kevin Gregg. Would like to see them take a flyer on Andrew Bailey or even Ryan Madson.
Not sure Nick Franklin projects as an SS moving forward but the truth is I think he could be a very solid piece for the Mets at second, allowing them to trade Murphy. Taking 2013 as his offensive floor, he’s really not that far off from Murphy’s 2013 numbers and could probably put up better defense than Murph at 2nd.
How about Chris Owings and Charles Brewer for Jon Niese. maybe the Dbacks can add another prospect as well
I’d only trade Niese if I were the Mets if Harvey weren’t hurt. I think their rotation needs Niese with Harvey gone.
I wouldn’t trade Niese in the mets perspective because he’d be your only lefty.
If you’ve got 5 righties better than your lefty, you use the 5 righties.
I don’t think I’d do that for Niese. He’s a nice pitcher but he’s pretty much a #3 right? The Dbacks have those guys.
Nurse is the inly lefty in the rotation
Nurse is the inly lefty in the rotation
Chris Owings and Gerardo Parra, and it’s closer to something Alderson would accept.
I could see the Dbacks and Mets matching up. Owings for a SP prospect.
I proposed a Chris Owings and Charles Brewer for Jon Niese trade, which I think makes sense for both teams
Yeah I saw that. I was thinking something more involving Montero, Nimmo or make it a bigger deal for Syndagarrd.
That could work too but it would take a lot to pry Syndagarrd away from the Mets
I think Owings is a pretty highly thought of SS prospect. He has decent value. I don’t think the Mets will trade Syndergaard though.
Montero and Nimo on an Owings deal would work. Maybe throw in a SP prospect from the Dbacks to even it out.
I doubt the Mets throw in the towel on Nimmo, they invested too much stake in him. A different throw in like Plawecki could make it work.
The reason I went with Nimmo is because he fits the Dbacks farm. They have zero outfielders in their top 20 prospects.
Good point. D’Backs have a lot of interesting arms in the system. Even a guy like Evan Marshall as a bullpen arm could be interesting, never can have too many of those around.
Sure, makes sense. You’d have to give up Lamb, probably, to get Nimmo AND Montero, though, considering Bradley’s untouchable and Shipley can’t actually be traded until next year. There are certain moves that the Mets, due to lack of talent at the Major League level, just can’t make since they’re counting on the Minor League depth.
I just don’t see the teams lining up on a Niese trade. I also don’t think the Mets have enough depth to do that trade.
Montero and Nimmo on an Owings/Lamb/Barrett deal would work for the Mets, perhaps.
I think Owings is a pretty highly thought of SS prospect. He has decent value. I don’t think the Mets will trade Syndergaard though.
Montero and Nimo on an Owings deal would work. Maybe throw in a SP prospect from the Dbacks to even it out.
That could work too but it would take a lot to pry Syndagarrd away from the Mets
No way the Mets deal Syndergaard. Montero and other parts, on the other hand, might work for one of the spare SS’s.
Nimmo and Montero for which players on the D’backs?
That simply doesn’t get it done, going by Alderson’s MO. This is a guy who got Dilson Herrera and Vic Black for a couple of weeks of Byrd/Buck and got Wheeler for a couple of months of Beltrán.
Realistically, it would have to be more than you’d expect/accept. From what I see, the D’backs and the Mets don’t line up well on a Niese trade, period.
Somehow I see this Thornburg thing turning into a SS.
A trade for Asdrubal Cabrera could make sense. His value is pretty low considering he is coming off a bad year, is a free agent next year, and Lindor is coming up. Don’t know how we would match up though, maybe a three team trade.
That definitely makes sense. Just had a bad year, on decline, and is a free agent next year so let’s give away valuable prospects for one year on a make or break player. I’d much rather get a controllable, inclining, young SS with great fielding and hitting upside.
Good points, but I think that this puts us right into the Wild Card chase for next season, and a prospect doesn’t. Cabrera, Murphy, Wright, Granderson, C Young, Duda, d’Arnaud, and Lagares would be a really solid lineup.
There would have to be bounce back years from Cabrera, d’Arnaud, CY, and Murphy for that to happen
It would but I think Sandy is looking to have spots filled not just for 1 year unless it’s for pitching or there is always a solid market out there. OF there’s going to be a pretty solid market every year. SS we already saw dwindled down with one of the top FA SS being Drew. I’d like to see a younger guy to fill up SS.
If we don’t get a shortstop this offseason and have to stick with Tejada I would really like it if they trade Niese and or Gee at the deadline when Syndergaard and Montero come up.
If we don’t get a shortstop this offseason and have to stick with Tejada I would really like it if they trade Niese and or Gee at the deadline when Syndergaard and Montero come up.
I don’t see the big deal about Thornburg. Brewers don’t match up well with us in a deal unless Segura is available. Let’s hope they sign Loney so the Pirates and Rays, who have much more to offer, are left fighting for Ike
Just spitballing here but does anyone think this would be a good trade:
Mets get: Aaron Hill and Gregorius/Owings
Diamondbacks get: Montero, deGrom, Matt Reynolds, Flores
Mets put Hill at 2B Murphy at 1B
lineup goes:
Gregorius/Owings SS
Murphy 1B
Wright 3B
Granderson RF/LF
Hill 2B
Young LF/RF
TDA C
Lagares CF
Pitcher
Maybe different prospects would get it done? I’m just spitballing here like I said. Feel free to criticize.
The Dbacks can’t give up two MI’s. Not until Davidson proves he can handle 3b every day.
Hill or Prado could be traded at a later date if Davidson does well.
Right. Then maybe switch out Plawecki and put in Flores to play 3B or 2B?
Thats really just adding to the list of unproven players though. The Dbacks are trying to win now, so I don’t see them moving Hill till they’re sure whoever else they have or get, will produce.
Check out Hill’s numbers compared to the other 2b in baseball in 2012. He’s near the top of the list. He missed half of last year or he would have been again.
Thats why I suggested just trading prospects for prospects to fill team needs.
I personally wouldnt do it from the Dbacks perspective, just because they would be trading Hill, who won Silver Slugger in 2012, AND gregorious or owings who are both solid players. And Hill is one of my favorite players, so I would hate to see him go.
Matt Reynolds is way too valuable to give up.
I am talking about the Matt Reynolds on the Mets. He’s a 3B. He’d be no use since Wright will be around for a while.
I was being sarcastic. Matt Reynolds isn’t even on our prospect radar…he’s #34 in Amazin’ Avenue’s top 50 after posting .702 in 2012 and .639 in 2013 while being old for his league. He’s not even a throw in.
My snarky way of saying there’s no way the D’Backs blow up their entire middle of the infield when we deal them Montero and spare parts (the bloom is off Flores’ rose, and deGrom has no prospect profile right now).
On the other hand, a Montero for Owings or Gregorious trade (perhaps with a little sweetener from the Mets like Plawecki) has a chance.
That’s what I’m really looking at Montero and a prospect for either Owings or Gregorius. I was just throwing something out there. I pretty much got bored because nothing was going on.
Great minds think alike. I hadn’t seen you propose that below too.
It’s such a no-brainer…and after the D’Backs emptied out their young pitching to get Trumbo, it makes even more sense. Either Sandy is dreaming of Montero being the chip to land some elite bat…or he’s flat out overvaluing him and wants too much in return right now…or the D’Backs don’t like him. But I hope something gets done soon, we’ve got no in-house SS option and it’s just a big black hole in the lineup and on the field right now.
The longer these rumor mills keep saying the M’s are working hard to get David Price to Seattle, the more I believe it will happen.
Price will not sign an extension with the M’s, at least not right away, so….
Fair trade for Price? I’d give Paxton, Franklin, and maybe Smoak to the Rays. They might demand Zunino or Walker, but they ain’t gettin’ ’em.
The Rays don’t care if Price won’t sign an extension, that’s between him and the M’s. Accordingly, they won’t take less of a package.
Yeah, the Mariners are hoping that if they trade for him, they can convince him to stay and sign an extension within that two years. It’s going to cost Zunino to get him though, which is why I think the Mariners should just try to get Cliff Lee back. Hernandez, Lee, Kuma, Walker, Paxton looks just as good as Hernandez, Price, Kuma….especially when subtracting Zunino.
The Mariners should just forget Price and get Lee back from the Phillies. They could keep Walker and Zunino and maybe even Paxton if they traded Pike, Romero, Hicks and took on Lee’s salary. If they can keep the big three and Zunino, you’d be looking at a rotation of Hernandez, Lee, Kuma, Walker, Paxton, and Hultzen would probably be ready in ’15 or ’16.
And, as I read somewhere today, if the Phillies really wanted to shed salary, they could pay $6M of Papelbon’s salary and send him too. That puts Pap in the same price range as the top tier of closers on the FA market now.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think Dee Gordon would be a decent option to go after? He’s got speed and decent defense. Only problem is his bat but maybe he could tweak his stance and then he’s all good.
What good is speed when 70% of the time, you’re motoring back to your own dugout after making an out?
Montero must go in a trade for a young SS.
I’m of the opinion that either the Mets are overvaluing Montero, or they are holding tight hoping he can someday be the premier prospect in a deal to get a big time player. I think both courses are wrong.
The Mets need a young competent SS with upside. In an extreme rarity, both the D’Backs and Mariners have them to spare. Let’s make a deal!
The mets should do a three team trade with the Cubs and D-Backs.
something like:
D-Backs get Jeff Samardjiza
Cubs get Randall Delgado,Rafael Montero and two prospects (one Mets, One D-Backs)
Mets get Chris Owings
I have been wanting the Mets to try to get Chris Owings for a while. I think he is a good young piece.