The Tigers, Pirates and Indians are interested in Padres reliever Joaquin Benoit, CBS Sports’ Jon Heyman reports. The Padres have already shipped out one reliever with closing experience, trading Huston Street to the Angels, but Heyman writes that Benoit will likely fetch a less attractive return, since teams generally view him as a setup man, not a closer.
Heyman notes that the Tigers or Pirates could use Benoit in the eighth inning, allowing Joe Nathan or Mark Melancon, respectively, to continue to close. (Those two teams are also interested in Joakim Soria of the Rangers, Heyman notes.) It isn’t yet clear whether the Indians will be buyers.
Benoit is owed $8MM next year plus $8MM or a $1.5MM buyout in 2016. His 2016 option will vest if he finishes at least 55 games in 2015. Benoit has a 2.04 ERA with 10.4 K/9 and 2.5 BB/9 in 39 2/3 innings with San Diego this year.
I’d rather the Pirates go after a closer so Melancon can go to the 8th. Someone like Steve Cishek for closer…you could still get Benoit for the 7th inning if you really wanted to, to solidify the bullpen even further. All I know is Frieri just needs to not be allowed in the bullpen.
Cishek and Benoit would not only cost good prospects but a lot of cash, not something that NH traditionally likes to do with the pen.
I know getting only one of them is realistic, and two not so much. Just pointing out they could still get Benoit if they really wanted. It’d be great as Pirate fan, but obviously very slim chance for it happening.
Why does everyone want Melancon out as closer? I don’t get it.
He is way more comfortable it seems in the 8th. He’s very dominant in the 8th. While he has good numbers in the 9th too, his numbers are better in the 8th. And while he usually gets the job done most of the time in the 9th, it seems as if everything is hit hard and he lets runners on base.
I dun. . A whole lot of “seems” in that explanation. Tim Williams just posted a breakdown of his career numbers by inning the other day.
8th inning: 105 IP 3.00 ERA 4.12 K/BB
9TH inning: 106 IP 2.72 ERA 3.73 K/BB
And he’s had a couple of scoreless 9th’s since then.
It’s 60 feet 6 inches no mattef what inning it is.
Pirates get: Kennedy, Benoit
Padres get: Glasnow, Meadows, Heredia, Lambo.
Yeah that’s too much the pirates are giving up. Doubt they’d think about considering that.
Don’t mean to reply to myself but that’s 3 of their top 8 specs and most likely a top 3 in one of the best farms in the game. Kennedy and Benoit are not worth that at all.
Take off Glasnow and Meadows and we’ll give you a deal. Lol. They aren’t giving up a top 20 and too 40 prospect in the MLB for a relief pitcher and a starter who was kinda terrible last year…
And to add on to that, if they’re gonna give up those kind of prospects for that caliber of players, they might as well add a few pieces and make a run for a better caliber player like a David Price.
They could but the rays will ask for Polanco, Cole, or Marte as part of the deal including Glasnow, Meadows, Bell. Glasnow isn’t even in AA nor is Meadows. Bell just got there. The pirates don’t have the advanced pieces the Rays want for price thus it’ll cost them all those plus a young guy like the ones I mentioned. The suitors for price are the mariners centered around Walker, Franklin, and other pieces and the dodgers around Pederson, Seager, Lee. All those are Mlb ready. Kennedy is the best starter left on the market that won’t cost as much as price as well as Benoit is the best reliever. You could argue Hamels and Lee but the obligation and injuries aren’t enticing. And you’re not getting Kennedy and Benoit without giving up Glasnow and or meadows. The Indians do need SP. So it’ll be a bidding war. Desperate teams (see angels trade) that wanna go for it tend to give up more than they should.
I don’t think how close they are to the Majors really changes how the Rays look at the Price return. They are looking for the best players, not the ones that are closest to the Majors, but the best. Walker, and Franklin (who doesn’t seem very impressive to me) better have some other better pieces if they even want to contend for Price’s services. The proposed package of Lee, Seager, and Pederson is nothing the Pirates couldn’t match. Glasnow is a better pitcher right now, and has a higher ceiling. A comparable to Seager for the Pirates is Hanson. They both are projected to arrive in 2015. A comparable for Pederson is Meadows, who’s ceiling is also probably higher than Pedersons. The Pirates also have some other good pieces to add if needed. I’m not saying this will be enough, but it’s matching the offer you made for the Dodgers. Glasnow, Meadows, Hanson, and a couple other pieces might be able to get it done.
The rays traded shields for Wil Meyers and Jake Odorizzi. Both were major league ready. When they traded Matt Garza to the cubs Chris Archer was in AA and ready to be called up a year later. They want MLB ready pieces. Probably pitching rather than hitting but that means they’ll still want Cole Glasnow Meadows and Bell. The rays aren’t targeting guys that are 2-3 years away they’re targeting guys a year or less even ready now. Pederson is ready now mashing triple A. Far as the mariners Walker is better than Glasnow and ready, Franklin is iffy but they’ve got other mlb pieces like Paxton and Dj Peterson and Chris Taylor who are ready. Taylor is doing great in AAA and Peterson in AA.
Unfortunately the rays haven’t produced much from their farm system and drafts. They want guys that are ready.
Well all i know from the Rumors locally here in Cleveland that The Rays want the moon for Price which they should here is what a the rumored asking price was.
Carlos Santana who signed a very reasonable long term deal Danny Salazar I’m sure everyone saw him at some point last year and he will start tomorrow and has dominated 3 out of his last AAA starts # 1 Draft Pick from 2013 Clint Frazier who is 19 hitting 270 with 10 homers 11 doubles 5 triples and 9 Sbs in 11 tries in 350 at bats. 1st base prospect Nellie Rodriguez who has 16 homers and 54 Rbi’s and infield prospect at AAA Jose Ramirez,
For Price and a prospect
I personally do not believe that Price gets the indians over the top they still need hitting and more than 1 bat.
if you wanna go that route: Kingham Hanson Tony Sanchez and Bell could get it done, the Pirates could have david price if they really really want to, they have prospects through out all levels
I’d be happy with that deal but management will push Glasnow or meadows minimum. The pirates have great prospects but the rays have comtinuely asked for mlb ready guys for price. They’ll have to give up Cole, Marte, or Polanco plus prospects to get price. Surrendering Cole Glasnow Meadows and others for price for mainly a year isn’t the wisest investment. At least Kennedy has an arb year and may work out an extension and Benoit has 2 years of team control left. 0 chance price signs an extension if dealt.
You keep contradicting yourself. On one hand, you say the Rays want major league ready but you keep throwing Glasnow who is still in A ball. There won’t be any trades where the Pirates part with Cole and Glasnow.
Contradicting myself how? I constantly said they want major league ready guys. If you’re offering Glasnow Meadows Bell you’ll have to toss in Cole, Marte, or Polanxo. That’s the major league ready player they’d expect to go along in the deal. If it was the mariners Walker is the major league ready prospect. Just cause I say they want major league ready players doesn’t mean they won’t get guys in AA or A also. But just Glasnow Meadows Bell and prospects won’t get it done. You’ll be sending them Cole, Marte, or Polanco. Go read closer I’ve stated that multiple times.
There’s no way they give up that much for Price. I personally would not trade a pitcher with the upside of a number 1. They have never showed the ability to sign one on the free agent market. Developing their own is the only way they will have pitchers of that caliber. Even if they paid the insane price, they would only have him the one additional year. He will be a Yankee or Dodger once free agency hits.
Contradicting myself how? I constantly said they want major league ready guys. If you’re offering Glasnow Meadows Bell you’ll have to toss in Cole, Marte, or Polanxo. That’s the major league ready player they’d expect to go along in the deal. If it was the mariners Walker is the major league ready prospect. Just cause I say they want major league ready players doesn’t mean they won’t get guys in AA or A also. But just Glasnow Meadows Bell and prospects won’t get it done. You’ll be sending them Cole, Marte, or Polanco. Go read closer I’ve stated that multiple times.
Haha. No.
Then the pirates can look elsewhere for SP and bullpen help. Call up the phillies about Hamels and Lee. Give up Cole, Marte, or Polanco chasing Price.
“Then the Pirates can look elsewhere for SP and bullpen help”
As they should. Their rotation is fine (for this year at least) unless they want to add an ace. Kennedy sure isn’t one of those.
As far as a bullpen arm goes, Huntington will not trade considerable prospects OR dollars (let alone both) for bullpen parts. That is not opinion — it’s historical fact. They are doing their due diligence, but I do not suspect they have any interest at the current price, nor the bounty you propose.
Or gosh, maybe the Pirates could deal with the actual Padres GM to get a deal done, rather than an internet fan. Just floating that idea out there.
Padres get: Volquez, Wilson
Pirates get: Hedges, Wisler, Spangenberg, Kelly
Except Kennedy > Volquez, Benoit > Wilson, and we aren’t contending. Get the sarcasm but clearly you fail to realize 3 teams are interested in Benoit. Probably more. Least 3 teams are interested in Kennedy. If the pirates want them to help contend then out bid everyone to do so. If not they can go trade for papelbon and Lee/Hamels. Maybe get an Aj Burnett reunion going.
Also both Volquez and Wilson’s contract end this year. Kennedy has another year of team control and Benoit has 2 more. Didn’t even bother to take into consideration of team control did you. Epic fail my friend.
Just because teams are interested in him does not mean they’ll get the type of return you are suggesting/asking. I would bet exactly (0) teams are interested in giving up (2) BA 100 prospects for Benoit.
And as far as years of control? Years of control only add value to a deal when they provide surplus value. Jose Tabata has years of control. He does not have value. Benoit’s contract isn’t ridiculous, but it also isn’t a bargain. Based on how the Pirates have been building their bullpen, I doubt they would find much value in his 2015 number.
There was a lot of interest in Huston Street too. The best player the Padres got back in that deal was the #93 rated prospect, Lindsey. Yet you think somebody is going to give up the #21 and the #43 prospects for a back of the rotation starter and a setup man? Prepare to be greatly disappointed.
…and speaking of epic fails, Wilson is under team control through the 2018 season.
See, but all they see is “Padres trade Street for Angels #1 Prospect” in the headlines.
The only reason Lindsey cracked BA’s Top 100 is because he’s ML Ready. He defintely wouldn’t crack Pittsburgh’s Top 5. Maybe Top 6-10, but those guys have higher upside.
I know. I don’t even know why I’m arguing this. I don’t even want Ian Kennedy – he’s not really an upgrade over what the Pirates already have – including Worley and Cumpton. I just have a hard time letting these outlandish trade proposals go, I guess.
Actually no we also saw Keith law who just knows a bit more about baseball than you do say he wouldn’t have traded rondon straight up for street. Let alone for Lindsey, Alvarez, Rondon, and Morris. Which leads to believe that if you want Benoit/ Kennedy the return will have to be significant since the angels didn’t match up to get Kennedy. But again I’m going to trust Keith Law rather than you.
I don’t know if you realize it or not, but you just made a great argument for why Benoit isn’t worth anywhere close to what you’re asking for.
Ian Kennedy has put up #1/#2 numbers 9.5 K/9, 2.5 BB/9, 73.5% LOB, 3.24 xFIP, 2.3 WAR. Clearly better numbers than Volquez and Worley. Not even close. Kennedy has out produced both. Definitely not back end of the rotation and certainly better than the pirates 2 pitchers I mentioned.
Ian Kennedy has put up #1/#2 numbers 9.5 K/9, 2.5 BB/9, 73.5% LOB, 3.24 xFIP, 2.3 WAR. Clearly better numbers than Volquez and Worley. Not even close. Kennedy has out produced both. Definitely not back end of the rotation and certainly better than the pirates 2 pitchers I mentioned.
Justin Wilson RP for the pirates 1 yr 500k contract ends in 2014 according to sportsrac. Doesn’t say he has any arb years. How’d you get 2018? Unless you’re talking about another Wilson not on their roster.
This year is only Wilson’s 2nd season of service time. He isn’t arbitration eligible until 2016. He doesn’t become a free agent until 2019.He is under team control through the 2018 season.
Glasnow is just about untouchable and the pirates won’t trade prospects and take on that money for a reliever and a starter they don’t need
Tigers should get Soria not Benoit because the Rangers are more willing to move him it seems like from the comments from the front office. So Ramon Cabrera, Jonathan Maciel and Melvin Mercedes for Soria and a minor leaguer. Then maybe a Joe Nathan for Jim Johnson? Tigers eat 4 million of next years salary?
I’d love to get Soria. And that doesn’t seem to horribly far off. However, I believe we’re stuck with Nathan
Don’t think the Rangers would take that for Soria. It would have to be closer to what the Padres got for Street. Soria is still doing great as a closer with a very reasonable option for next year. So it isn’t a forgone conclusion the Rangers are going to trade him. Morosi thinks it could include Wily Adames since the Padres got Rondon from the Angels for Street and Rondon wasn’t the best prospect the Angels gave up. Basically Street and Soria have the same amount of control left for the same dollar figure next season. So the haul for Soria should be equivalent to the haul for Street.
Okay maybe Daniel Feilds, Drew Verhagen and Mercedes?
According to MLB.com Padres got 2 grade 50 prospects and a grade 45 for the Tigers to come close you would have to include at least 1 of Travis, Thompson, Knebel, or Crawford
If I’m the Phillies, I’d make the offer along the lines of Pap + Cash for Nathan + Jake Thompson. Gets the Tigers out from under Nathan’s deal while getting a good closer (at the same or slightly lower price – that’s about how much money I’m talking). Gives the Phillies a good prospect, and they save a some money in 2016.
I think that they would have to eat enough money for it to be a lower price.
In my scenario, I have the Phillies eating about $2 M this year (the pro-rated number to get him down to $9 M this season), $5 M next year (for $8 M for Tigers), and I’m not sure how eating money with a vesting option (without a buyout) works. I’m sure there’s a way to do it, but I’d essentially eat $3 M in 2016 (so he’s end up costing the Tigers about $21 M for 2.5 years).
Pap and Revere plus $8mill to Detroit for Jackson and pick one (Drew verHagen, Melvin Mercedes,Hernan Perez). Phillies get out from under Paps 2014-15 contract and get a quality prospect. Tiger get salary relief in cash and Revere/Jackson swap. Tigers deal with 2016 option. If you really want Thompson we include him and one of the other 3 choices and we also get Hamels.
Jackson has no long term future for the Phillies (since he’s a FA after next season) and doesn’t help us net anything extra (heck, I’d rather just trade Pap and $8 M for one of those prospects). Used correctly (not as a CFer) Revere is semi-valuable AND under control through 2017. Phillies only need to get out from under Pap’s contract in the idea that he’s a luxury they don’t need – he’s not really causing a gigantic financial burden on them that they just need to get rid of. I don’t think they mind having a great closer at $13 M a season. He just doesn’t do much when you have a 70-75 win team.
I don’t see the Phillies trading Hamels this year. I think they stick with him for the next 2 years, and then re-evaluate where they are as a franchise. If they aren’t where they want to be, they’ll shop him then.
an upgrade to Thompson and 1 other player gets you Hamels thrown in? hmmm
Pap and Revere plus $8mill to Detroit for Jackson and pick one (Drew verHagen, Melvin Mercedes,Hernan Perez). Phillies get out from under Paps 2014-15 contract and get a quality prospect. Tiger get salary relief in cash and Revere/Jackson swap. Tigers deal with 2016 option. If you really want Thompson we include him and one of the other 3 choices and we also get Hamels.
The Tigers have very good chemistry and Pap is too toxic for Detroit
From the limited time I’ve seen Pap – he only seems to be toxic when the team is losing. Unfortunately, that’s been basically his entire tenure in Philly. He was rather tight lipped at the start of this season (when we were still in pseudo-contention). There were even reports that he was working a ton with the young pen to help the kids out (maybe those were just sent out by the team to “boost” his chemistry value – who knows).
There was no love lost when he left Boston and there are too many good/very good options still on the market to take a chance with him. Now if you include Hamels and Revere we may be talked into taking that bad boy off your hands.lol
He also left Boston on a bad note (with the Sox going 7-20 in the last month of the season – culminating with him blowing the final game of the season to miss the playoffs). Very few players are going to leave that on good terms.
And I’m not saying you need to make a trade for him tonight – just wait on it a week. I don’t think Benoit is getting traded. Soria has a nice team option for next year, and the Rangers could very well see themselves as contenders then – thinking they’ll be healthy (so they might hold onto him).
This is a fair deal.
Tigers have a weak farm system. They have to give up someone to get Papelbon. Thompson looks like an overpay…but the Tigers #3 prospect is equivalent to other team’s #6 or #7 rated prospect.
The attitude issue is overblown. Papelbon did fine winning the WS with the Red Sox.
JD Martinez; too much?
It won’t work, if for no other reason, politics.
The Tigers choose Nathan over Benoit in the offseason.
If JD Martinez regresses to an average Outfielder offensively (.270/80RBIs), the Tigers will have an asset worth $40MM+ over 4-5 years (v. an equivalent free agent).
I’m a Pirates fan, and I like Joaquin Benoit a lot… but I don’t understand at all why the Bucs would pursue him unless the asking price is negligible, which it wouldn’t be. If the Bucs want to spend money to make a deeper playoff run, it shouldn’t be on the bullpen. They need a starting pitcher or 1st baseman a heck of a lot more.
How about AJ Burnett? It’d be a lovely reunion.
I’m not excited about that really but honestly as a Phils fan what would you think is fair?
Uhhh…quick look at your system (from various prospect publications). I’d say, Harold Ramirez (seems to be stuck behind a lot of good, young OFers in your system + the great ones already up in the bigs). Maybe throw in a guy like Adrian Samson/Chad Kuhl if the Phillies took on a large part of the money (like $5 M of what’s remaining).
Harold Ramirez is top ten guy and I complete find that alright. But adding in Sampson is too much in my view I think adding a guy with bad numbers at a lower level would be fair. For example, preferably Shane Carle or Dovydas Neverauskas, And at most Jason Creasy or Cody Dickerson
I’d be fine with Shane Carle or Jason Creasy. Knowing the Phillies, they’d go after the guy from Cali – so it’d probably be Shane Carle. Both have great K:BB numbers, which is something I (personally) put heavy emphasis on kids in the minors.
think the Pirates would be interested in Bastardo too? Adds a 2nd lefty to pair with Watson. I know Wilson was good last year but seems to have struggled this season.
I was considering this the other day not with Bastardo but with Mike Dunn but Wilson struggles were earlier in the year his last 5 outings or so he has been much better he had two soild years for the Pirates so I think there good as far as a lefy but im all for getting another righty reliever
Makes sense to me. I like watching and rooting for the Pirates. I find them to be a very likeable team and easy to root for. And what I wouldn’t give to have a future OF of Marte-McCutchen-Polanco, not to mention Meadows and Bell (if he sticks in the OF) in the system.
“It isn’t yet clear whether the Indians will be buyers.”
Wouldn’t interest in Benoit mean they’re buyers?
I have no idea why they’d be interested in him, regardless.
I’m good with Melancon closing so I like the idea of adding a solid set-up man. Watson and the Shark are an excellent 8-9 shutdown pairing, mix in another good reliever and the bullpen is totally solidified. They should be able to get him for a negligible price, too. The Angels traded a B- SS prospect barely on BA’s top 100 prospect list (Lindsey) and a few other mediocre guys for San Diego’s All-Star closer… By that reckoning, the Bucs should be able to get Benoit for something like Lambo and a couple middling pitching prospects. I’d rather pay that than overpay for a closer that they don’t really need.
Yeah, just what we need in Cleveland—another reliever. 🙁
I think the Pirates pen is fine as currently constructed. Melancon, Watson, and Hughes have been solid. Wilson has been better and I’m hoping Saturday was the start of something good for Frieri (his arm slot appeared to be lower which leads me to believe working with Searage is starting to pay off). Pimentel has been fine in long relief and Worley will need to go to the pen, too. Include guys in the minors like Mazzaro/Cumpton and I’m not sure where the huge holes are? An upgrade is certainly not worth giving up any top-20 talent, especially given what it would probably cost.
If anything, I’d be looking to upgrade the rotation, especially if Liriano continues to falter. Kennedy would be a nice option as he would give us a bridge through the end of next year to guys like Kingham and Taillon.
Can Benoit be the Indians #3 starter? Nope? Keep moving on then. Bullpen is pretty darned solid right now, we can’t field a solid 3, 4 or 5 starter right now.
I don’t know why the Tigers didn’t resign Benoit in the first place…
He wanted closer money.
1. Nathan was better (on paper).
2. Big Papi HR.
3. They had Rondon (they thought) to be the 8th inning guy.
Jacoby Jones and Blake Taylor for Beniot?
Nooooooooooo! The Pirates need Benoit like they need a fifth baseman.
I dont think the Padres will trade Benoit unless someone is willing to overpay
Forget Soria. Consider this? This would make sense. Im a tigers fan by the way. Move castellonas to outfield again.
Phillies:
jonathon papelbon, antonio bastardo, jimmy rollins FOR
Tigers:
Austin Jackson, Joe nathan, draft picks, one or two prospects
Opinions??