The Red Sox announced today that they have relieved pitching coach Juan Nieves of his duties. Nieves joined the Boston coaching staff prior to the 2013 season and assisted the club’s World Series run in a year in which the team’s pitching staff posted a collective 3.79 ERA. GM Ben Cherington and manager John Farrell spoke to the media on a conference call today to discuss that change, the club’s rotation and a few other notes. Here are some highlights and a bit more on the BoSox…
- The Red Sox have a very small list of replacement candidates for Nieves, Cherington said (Twitter links via WEEI’s Rob Bradford). Boston is considering at least one internal and one external candidate. The primary reason for Nieves’ dismissal was an inability to get through to Boston’s current group of starters, Bradford tweets. Cherington stressed that there was no singular incident that led to the decision to let Nieves go, the Boston Herald’s Scott Lauber tweets. There will be no further changes to the coaching staff, he added (via Bradford).
- Despite struggles within the rotation, there will be no changes to the starting five, according to Cherington (via the Boston Globe’s Alex Speier). Rick Porcello, Justin Masterson, Wade Miley, Joe Kelly and Clay Buchholz have combined for a 5.54 ERA that is the second-worst rotation ERA in the Majors, with only Colorado’s 5.59 mark coming in above Boston’s starting five.
- Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports that Indians Triple-A pitching coach Carl Willis is a consideration to replace Nieves (Twitter link). Willis, who has formerly served as the Major League pitching coach in Cleveland, worked with Farrell in the Indians organization in the early to mid-2000s, Rosenthal adds in a second tweet. Willis was also the Mariners’ pitching coach as recently as 2013.
- Jarrod Saltalamacchia spoke with Bradford yesterday and told him that he “was definitely hoping to come back” to Boston after initially learning that the Marlins had designated him for assignment. However, Saltalamacchia was told that he’d have to search elsewhere for employment, and he tells Bradford that he understands the Sox’ decision in wanting to give Blake Swihart a chance behind the plate. “I can completely respect that,” said Saltalamacchia, in regards to Swihart. “As a player you appreciate something like that, when a team has a homegrown, young guy they want to give an opportunity to. That’s what every player hopes for and wants, that opportunity to prove himself.”
Juan “Scapegoat” Nieves
He simply could not get through to them. Can you imagine the scene where he suggested to Clay Buchholz that he may want to stop throwing hanging sliders? “But coach, the hanging slider is my best pitch.”
Scapegoat implies its other people’s fault, not his. Almost every pitcher is having a below career average or worse season. If not the pitching coach, then who else should bear the blame first? I consider him less a scapegoat, and more of a first domino to fall.
If not the pitching coach, then who else should bear the blame first?
How about the pitchers?
So you’re going to DFA the entire rotation?
You know, that’s actually not as crazy as it sounds. They’ve been that bad.
Can’t argue that they don’t deserve it. Porcello and Kelly are the only two I look forward to seeing.
so you look forward to seeing kelly and his 5.72 era ok then
I expect he will improve on that, which is more than I can say for the other three.
I think that Nieves probably was failing to really get through to the pitching staff, but I also think that if Buchholz weren’t continually given chances or if the offense weren’t so anemic lately he might not look so bad.
It’s like every other season you want Bucholz on some DNP list (do not pitch) where he can be replaced by ANYONE else on the roster and banished to Pawtucket and the nest season? he’s like the best, or next to best the Sox have.
I just don’t get how they can make an example out of Nieves, and not even acknowledge considering making some changes to the rotation, when that’s clearly what needs to be done. I’m not even saying to actually make those changes yet(though making SOME type of move soon,be it minor or major, may not be a bad plan), but at least acknowledge it to be a thought. Maybe pride is a factor here and he doesn’t want to admit he may have miscalculated by hoping too much from the group he himself assembled? Either way, shame for Nieves to lose out because of something he can’t control.
I think when as a group the pitchers have having a ton of issues with LOB% and are grossly underperforming their periphials you can start to wonder what the pitching coach is doing. The rotation isn’t the most talented bunch but they aren’t this bad and I think its fair to let Nieves go if the team thinks he can’t get through to the SP.
I’m not exactly sold on the fact that Nieves getting the boot was necessary though, he wasn’t exactly handed a gem of a rotation to polish up and make shine. You make a fair point that it’s fair to question what the coach is doing behind the scenes, we don’t know the full extent of that and maybe there’s something to that point. At the same time, there’s absolutely no way that changing pitching coaches is going to stop 5 starting pitchers who are all underwhelming from pitching the way the staff has, at some point it comes down to the player, or in this case, players, performing.
Cherington handed NIeves an average or below-average staff. He’s getting results that are among the worst in the majors, despite a SIERA that is solid. Hard to know what to make of it, but everybody on the staff is underperforming one way or another.
With Mujica being let ago “around” the same time, have to wonder if the FO wasn’t wanting to let him (Mujica) go a lot earlier and Nieves telling them he could be salvaged.
Also? We don’t know how much input (recommendations) Nieves had on who to bring in over the winter either. For all we know? Ross, Varvarro etc.. Could have all been his and he was against Ogando.. just saying…
If the pitching coach is having input in personnel decisions, there’s a lot more to worry about than the pitching staff.
Every starting pitcher is pitching worse than last season. And even last year, the pitching staff pitched well below projections. How is that not partially the pitching coaches fault? I’m not saying others are without blame, but “make an example” of him? No way.
To a degree, sure, you can put some questions on the coach, wonder what it is he’s doing to try to help the situation, we don’t know about that as fans, and it’s fair to wonder, I’ll give you that. Is it his fault that the pitchers are throwing the way they are? Not so sure about that. It seems like a case of “somebody has to take the blame”.
Now you’re being more reasonable. In your first comment it was “shame for Nieves to lose out because of something he can’t control”. My analogy would be if I were a foreman of a group of guys and for two years, and that set of workers was well below expected output, I’d probably be in danger of losing my job. Whether it my fault or not, that’s where the axe is going to fall first. They aren’t going to give me a pass and fire my bosses first.
Let me play with that analogy just a bit! In this case, I would have liked for the set of workers to have been reassigned or moved around a bit before turning to the Foreman to fire.
In other words, I’d have been more understanding of this move had they done more to address the actual players first, being it via call up or outside acquisition. Give Masterson some competition for his rotation spot, look into cheap ‘pen arms, just something player related that would at least work towards a real resolve for the base issues the pitching staff is having.
they did move the players around. they were horrible last year. absolutely horrible. they moved on from 4/5 of the rotation that they started with last year. new pitchers same results. time to go.
They may not have been great last year, but they weren’t worst in the league-bad as they’ve been so far. Sure, they turned over the staff from last year, but that’s not exactly saying much considering who it was they brought in to fill the staff out. There are some good arms on the team, but none of them are rotation toppers right now, let alone looking remotely ace like. I don’t think they’ll be THIS bad all year, and I’m sure they’ll eventually do something substantial, but you can blame Cherington for betting on the best case scenario early on and leading to these results, it wasn’t Nieves who built the team as is. As I said, common case in baseball of “somebody has to take the blame”.
the point is that the sox are now in their second year of their pitchers performing worse than expected. the pitchers they have are not as bad as they are playing for the second year in a row. more than enough reason to move on from their supervisor.
I disagree with the thinking that changing pitching coaches is the right move here, no matter how you cut it, it doesn’t tackle the root of the problem in my mind. When you set up a staff without without a single guy who has yet to consistently show front of the rotation performance, and with a group that all had questions going into the season, there’s not much a coach is going to change. If it makes Boston fans feel better and makes them feel as if something is being done to right the ship right now, great. Is it fixing the real problem the team is facing? Nope, not at all. That’s why I don’t like the move this early, particularly without an effort to do something more tangible to the roster first.
seriously. if the sox were firing him because none of them are pitching like aces then he should kept. what is happening is that the entire rotation is under-performing. it’s his job to make sure they are ready to perform at a high level and he hasn’t been successful
We’re just not going to agree here, and that’s fine. The pitching coach isn’t going to make or break a staff in any case, if the talent is there, he’ll help make the most of it, but he won’t be the reason a team fails ultimately. There comes a point where the pitchers are accountable for their outings, and where a GM becomes responsible for building the team. It’s as simple as that.
don’t come back without facts? how about:
1. every starter is performing below their career numbers
2. questionable pitch calling. the only pitcher who seems to have a plan is masterson.
3. this is the second year that both of these things are true for multiple starters.
1/2)That’s on the pitchers, they’re responsible for their performance and particularly now with a rookie catcher, they need to have a plan when on the mound. The only thing the PC can do is advise the staff, whether they chose to take the advice is another question.
3)You said it yourself, this is a different staff than last year, so comparing the two is a null point. I don’t like your logic here because it’s lacking to acknowledge the real problem and putting it on a scapegoat, but I don’t have to, just as you don’t have to like my view point.
Joe Kelly should be their future closer, Bring up Johnson, Masterson mid relief
I’d like to see them try Barnes or Workman as the closer. At this point, yes…bring up Johnson at least, if not him and Rodriguez.
Tim Wakefield???
Pedro Martinez. 🙂 Kids would sure listen to him!
Ha, Pedro was such a freak of natural talent that I’m not sure he’d have anything useful to teach. “Hmm, your slider isn’t working too well. Try teaching yourself three other dominant pitches.”
Nieves or not I don’t see that rotation improving much.
Who thought the Red Sox would go to the mattresses so suddenly and emphatically?
Me
Wonder if maybe Ferrel is also an issue? Could he be on the hot seat next?
There’s no question the rotation is performing poorly so naturally the pitching coach is partly accountable for that. Obviously, the pitchers are too. I’m surprised, though, that no has suggested the catcher situation might also be part of the problem. The relationship between pitchers and catchers is often overlooked…when the Red Sox had Varitek, for example, he really knew how to call a game and give pitchers confidence. There’s a reason David Ross basically became Jon Lester’s personal catcher, and it’s not because he can hit (he is often described as being like another coach on the field). With all of these young inexperienced catchers Red Sox have been using, I wonder if that is part of the problem as well.
Also to note that they are on their third catcher, they haven’t had much continuity since spring training behind the plate which is needed since they have a lot of new pitchers on their staff.
Whatever he was saying to them it just was not working. If any one watched Sunday night baseball this past week (Yanks/Sox) Schilling and Kruk were praising Joe Kelly’s 4 seam fastball, and showing during the game that the hitters could not hit his 4 seam but were smacking around his 2 seam. They could not understand why he wads still throwing it…it was actually frustrating to them. How does Nieves not pick up on this, and tell his pitcher stop throwing it??? He still has 3 pitches w/o it.
is it just me, or could we use a little help on offense as well?