Dodgers manager Dave Roberts’ decision to pull Ross Stripling 7 1/3 innings and 100 pitches into a no-hitter led to jeers last night at AT&T Park, as Andy McCullough of the Los Angeles Times writes. Chris Hatcher quickly gave up a two-run homer to Trevor Brown, and the Dodgers lost 3-2. “Under no circumstance am I going to even consider putting his future in jeopardy,” Roberts said of Stripling, who had Tommy John surgery in 2014, had just allowed his fourth walk, and was making his big-league debut. “For me, it was a no-brainer.” Via FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal (on Twitter), Roberts says Stripling’s father thanked him for helping preserve his son’s health. It was, regardless, a memorable debut for Stripling, who spent the 2015 season coming back while pitching at Double-A Tulsa. Here’s more from around the NL West.
- The Dodgers have placed outfielder Carl Crawford on the DL and recalled Micah Johnson to take his place, MLB.com’s Ken Gurnick tweets. Crawford will receive an MRI on Monday on his injured back, tweets J.P. Hoornstra of the Los Angeles News Group. Crawford started the Dodgers’ first three games this season and is batting 3-for-11 so far this year.
- The Giants remain interested in bringing back Tim Lincecum, but as a reliever, not as a starter, Jon Heyman writes (Twitter links). Lincecum, though, would like to start. Lincecum has been the subject of an incredibly long series of updates about a mysterious showcase that has yet to come to fruition, but he’s reportedly doing well while working out at a variety of locations in Arizona. (Last month, the Royals found out about one of those locations and were kicked out, via Heyman.) Lincecum, who posted a 4.13 ERA, 7.1 K/9 and 4.5 BB/9 in 15 starts with the Giants in 2015, is attempting to return after having hip surgery in September.
- Padres outfield prospect Jose Urena has been suspended 80 games for use of metaboline of Nandrolone, as noted in a staff report at Baseball America. Urena (not to be confused with the Marlins pitcher of the same name) is a genuine prospect who batted a solid .258/.390/.409 last season as a 20-year-old in the short-season Northwest League. The Padres had purchased his rights from a Mexican League team for $550K.
I hope the Giants can bring Timmy back. There is just something wrong about not seeing him in the dugout with his hoodie.
I just don’t see where he fits on the Giants now, or in the future. I do wish Lincecum would consider relieving, he could be very good if he stays healthy — someone please remind him about Dennis Eckersley and John Smoltz.
If the game of baseball has gotten to the point where 20-30 more pitches will ruin a guy’s future, then we just need to stop playing it., because it is just way too dangerous. However, this was just stupid. His future was not in jeopardy. This was far worse than the Armando Galarraga game because that was simple human error, this was done intentionally. We apparently have no concept of pushing your limits as an athlete anymore. At one time, people thought your head would explode if you drove a car faster than 80 MPH, but then people started pushing that limit. This is even worse because guys used to throw 150+ pitches per game and be fine other than a sore arm which was fine in a day or two. Stuff like this just makes me want to stop watching baseball altogether because Roberts seems like he would happily do it again because he made the Dad happy. If he his goal is to make fathers happy, then he needs to go manage Little League. I don’t care if this comes off like an “old man rant” because it just disgusts me at how much of a “Nerf the world” move this was. Even though I can’t stand the Dodgers, I feel horrible for this young pitcher because he will probably never be as close to the chance to pitch a big league no hitter ever again and he will never have the chance to do it in his first game ever.
The problem is it wasn’t going to only take 20-30 more pitches. He was struggling at that point, and was 8 outs away still.
Hes a young kid whose not very far removed from TJ, who didn’t throw 100 pitches in any single game in the last 3 seasons. Not to mention its his first start, as in he was barely stretched out well anyways.
No he was 5 outs away 7 1/3 innings. Average of 4-6 pitches per out means 20-30 pitches. If they are that worried about him pitching so much, then why not make him a reliever? If they don’t think he can do the job physically, then don’t let him start in the first place.
Its not only that he’s gonna break its also that any pitcher will struggle going through the order for a 4th time. It would’ve taken minimum 20 pitches and more likely 30-40 to finish that game off. It was a smart move, but that doesn’t mean I wish he wouldnt have done it
It would have taken a minimum of 5 pitches, not 20. But the average is around 20-30. No one has any idea how he would have done the fourth time through the order because he wasn’t allowed to do it. Statistics say that he should have struggled the THIRD time through the order, but he didn’t.
And statistics say he would be even worse the fourth time through. Its Roberts’ job to win the game, not try to get a rookie a no no.
Well Roberts didn’t win the game either, so it seems like he didn’t do his job all the way around.
It was the bullpen that failed, miserably, second game in a row.
He was 5 outs away but I agree, he had been showing major signs of fatigue. Not only was this to preserve his health but also a move to win the game. He was coming up on the 4th time through the order and was having trouble throwing strikes. 2 outs from Hatcher and 3 outs from Jansen is a recipe for success most of the time
Giants fan here….thanks Dave Roberts
1) it’s not your arm or career in danger. 2) he’s coming off tommy john & has never pitched more than he did yesterday. 3) If he does pitch a no-hitter 120-130 pitches, by July/August his arm is tired/sore causing the Dodgers to shut him down & he’s never the same. You’re taking away guaranteed MLB salary (min. $507,000)
1) Like I said, if it is too dangerous, then we need to ban the game for our own safety.
2) Then make him a reliever. You won’t have to worry about pitch counts or innings limits all season.
3) That is ridiculous. You think not throwing 30 more pitches is going to allow a pitcher to not be tired/sore in August and September? You are making so many assumptions that it is just, I’ll just stick with my earlier term of, ridiculous.
You’re claiming that if teams want to try to manage injury risk that we should just ban the game of baseball, yet calling other peoples’ arguments ridiculous?
Ya, I think he’s trolling
No he is not just trolling. Just because you don’t agree with me, does not make my argument meaningless or a troll.
Of course I don’t think the game should be banned. I think if the game was as dangerous to the human body as people seems to think, then it should be banned. It was roundabout way of saying that people are way to scared of injuries.
You really don’t seem to know much about the game do you? If you’re so much smarter than the entire managerial staff and medical staff how vote you don’t have a team under your control?
“WE” need to stop playing it? Didn’t know “YOU” played. Not your decision to decide how many pitches someone can/will throw. Guys like you always telling organizations/coaches/player what they think is best for them.
Yes I did play it into college, and still do in fact, albeit in a far less formal setting. But regardless, I was using the term “WE” in regards to the human race because if WE are worried OUR safety then WE should take care of OUR appendages.
Well when you run a team you can let all your pitchers throw 150 pitch complete games
Tommy John (the guy that was the first to have the surgery) pitched 200+ innings every season for 5 consecutive seasons after missing the 1975 season with his surgery and it would have been 8 consecutive if not for the player’s strike in 1981, so don’t tell me that these players can’t pitch a lot after their surgery.
And for every John Lackey, there are 10 Ryan Madsons, Brian Wilson, Jarrod Parker, Brandon Beachy, Jonny Venters, Josh Johnson and Joel Hannrahan.
It depends. Some pitchers are down for TJ 2-3 more times, others, never need it again. On what it depends nobody really knows. As far as Stripling is concerned, he’d just walked his 4th batter in the late innings of a close game, so it was time to pull him no matter what else was going on in the game. The issue for the Dodgers is they have too few middle relief rocks to hang onto, mostly just a bunch of loose gravel. I don’t blame Roberts for this problem any more than I blamed Mattingly for dealing with the same one last year. I blame the people who should fix that problem but don’t.
Tommy John threw about 85 MPH btw.
Dodgers should have let him pitch until he gave up a hit or walked another batter. Simple as that.
It was his first start of the season, meaning his arm isn’t anywhere close to stretched out. Not to mention he had TJ surgery two years ago. Who cares if he doesn’t get a chance at a no-hitter again? Risking blowing his arm out and jeopardizing his career isn’t worth it during the first week of the season. I am pretty sure the kid would rather pitch 10 years in the majors without a no-no than going for a no-hitter and risking his career.
So you would rather be mediocre for a long career than be at the pinnacle of your profession for a short time? Your defeatist mindset is just sad to me. Most athletes become athletes to prove they are among the best. The ones that are just doing it for money aren’t worth worrying about anyway.
Would you rather have one year of MLB salary, or 10? And one start in April does not a pinnacle make.
As I said, anyone doing it for just the money isn’t worth worrying about anyway. If all you care about is money, then why should I care if you are healthy? And to answer your question, I would rather be remembered as a guy that pitched a no hitter instead of a mediocre pitcher for 10 years so in that instance I would take the 1 and be thrilled.
This is their career, Ray Ray, so of course they are doing it for money, just like whatever you do for money is your career. The two things (being an athlete, making money at it) are not mutually exclusive.
The easy reply to your ironic sense of a defeatist mindset would be that you don’t believe he can pitch 7 1/3 no-hit innings again whereas Stripling and Roberts do. A winner believes that they can dominate their opponent every night.
Don’t agree. It would have taken at least 20-30 more pitches to get those last five outs. He has never thrown 100 pitches before in a professional game, he is coming off of Tommy John surgery, and it is literally his first start of the pro season. History or not, it’s not the time to be tempting fate with his health or “pushing your limits as an athlete.”. His arm has already imploded on him so you want him to go even harder/farther than he ever has before? It was the right call that Roberts had to make. If anything, if the hard 100 pitch count limit was decided upon by the organization, it was a mistake to let him even come out in the 8th. Honestly, it’s not even that much of an issue if the Dodgers bullpen doesn’t let the game get away. You still have the combined no-hitter.
Yeah but the Giants have been hitting really well lately and he could turn out to be a very valuable piece in the at rotation since after kazmir and Keyshaw and maybe maeda everyone else in that rotation sucks
The only reason Stripling was even pitching is because the Dodgers couldn’t keep other starters healthy. Why does everyone think that they have all of a sudden figured out the recipe for maintaining a pitcher’s health? If pitch counts and innings limits stopped injuries, then why do relievers get hurt? They get hurt just as often as starters.
Go run a marathon without any training. Tell me how that goes. Odds are you’re going to get hurt, or quit before you finish.
Stripling wasn’t ready to handle a 120-140 pitch game in his first start because he wasn’t stretched out all the way, has a history of elbow injuries, and never went that far in a game.
As for your “pushing the limits” comment, he should be pushed at some point, but not in his first start. Every pitcher needs to be eased into the season.
It seems your whole argument is over the no hitter, which really doesn’t mean anything. Want to see what modern mechanics and 150+ pitches does to your arm in modern MLB? Go ask Tim Lincecum.
The same reason you think you’ve figured out what’s best for the GAME. These players are investment, not exploited college kids.
They had training. They just had a month of it in fact.
Yes I am angry about the no hitter, because there are so few things in the game of baseball that have never been done and this could have been something this guy could be proud of for his entire life. If that doesn’t mean anything, then why do we even bother? However, iit is really just the straw that broke the camel’s back. Sorry if it seemed like I was in attack mode, but everyone seems to be ganging up on me so I fought back.
BTW, Tim Lincecum is a 2 time Cy Young Award winner that has had a 10 year MLB career, so far. Seems it didn’t hurt him too bad.
That isn’t an answer, just an attack. Players are athletes, not an investment.
Your time is OVER. You keep speaking about how you played college ball or whatever, but so did a lot of other people. This isn’t the 70-80’s, where you seem to be stuck in. Neither you or I know what it’s like to get to that level, or what it takes. Pitching 6-8 mediocre yr in ML’s damn sure is better than pitching a No-Hitter and having a second TJ surgery.
When guys threw 150+ pitches, as you write, how long were their careers? Sandy Koufax hrew pretty hard, was worked like a pack mule. His career was over at, what, age 29? I’m glad we’re taking care of the people who have made this their career. Roberts’ decision is only being criticized in hindsight, because the Dodgers lost the game, but the guy was clearly gassed; that last walk he gave up it barely looked like he could throw the ball to the plate. To wreck a guys arm over an utterly meaningless early-season game would have been incompetent management.
I couldn’t agree with you more! Roberts is a dumb ass. Let the kid pitch and try and make history.
It took Crawford 5 gms to go in the DL
Ray Ray go away way.
If you don’t want to read my comments, then don’t read them. I promise that I won’t miss you.
Regardless on whether it was the right call to go to the bullpen, I think we can all agree that that moment with a man on and up two with one out in the 8th is the most important moment of the game up until then.
Unfortunately, Dave Roberts showed himself to be a formulaic manager in such a crucial moment by going to the “8th inning guy” instead of his best arm to put out the fire. With five outs left why not bring in Jansen to get the two most important outs of the game up until that point?
This phenomenon of specializing bullpen roles and dogmatically making choices regarding its use handcuffs teams’ ability to win. The ballgame was in the line there and Roberts didn’t use his best possible weapon in his arsenal.
In the playoffs yes, you bring in Jansen. The problem is in the regular season you can’t constantly rely on Jansen for 5 outs. You need other relievers you can trust otherwise you’ll end up throwing Jansen 100+ innings
OMG, not 100 innings. That would kill him.
Throwing 95+ MPH max effort pitches? Yes he would tire out his arm. Do you not watch what happens when pitchers throw too many innings? Arrieta was so tired by the playoffs cause he threw too many regular season innings
Do you not pay attention to baseball history? Nolan Ryan pitched 284 innings as a 25 year old and it ruined his arm so bad that the next year he was only able to pitch 326 innings. And yes he was throwing 95+ as well.
Arrieta was so tired by the playoffs that he shutout the Pirates in the WC game. Sorry that one is not flying. Yeah he lost a game against the Mets, but that’s just an excuse and a poor one at that.
You understand, Ray Ray, that no two people are the same, right? For Every Nolan Ryan there are ten Dizzy Deans or Sandy Koufaxes or Brandon Webbs. This absurd notion you have that every pitchers arm is the same is absurd.
The idea that every pitcher’s arm is the same and should be treated as such is absurd, Ray Ray. For every Nolan Ryan, there is a Dizzy Dean, Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Brandon Webb…you get the point, right?
Now tell Mark Prior’s story.
Im with you in this one ladfan!
He goes to Jansen in the 8th because he lacks a reliable setup man? Only goes to show that there’s only so many roster problems a manager can paper over.
Two separate issues.
One, you’re totally right that the front office has been inadequate in constructing a bullpen that can maintain leads and get, roughly, outs 19-24. What makes it worse is that they tried to address it with the Chapman deal. Therefore, they cannot claim ignorance to the necessity of a more reliable arm. It’s shameful and the front office has to be held accountable for this. You are spot-on in this perspective.
But two, because we have what we have when we have it (i.e. last night’s higher-than-normal leverage situation and Jansen rested since Tuesday), my opinion is that Roberts should have gone to Jansen in the 8th with one out because he is his best weapon at that moment to put out the fire.
This whole notion of a setup man, loogy, roogy, 7th inning guy, etc. is a fairly new phenomenon in baseball and not necessarily evolutionary. Someone needs to tell managers that it’s ok not to manage in a formulaic manner. If not, you might end up waiting for a 9th inning with a lead and it might never arrive.
One on, one out in the 8th with a 2-run lead is hardly a high-leverage situation. Not in April it sure isn’t. No matter what you call middle-relievers, that is precisely the moment when you need them to get some outs, or at the very least, not give up homers. Call it formulaic if you like but I doubt any manager of any team would have handled the situation much differently.
The sad part about this entire debate really is the quickness with which so many call for a manager’s head for doing nothing more than playing the assets they’ve been given to play. After last season the FO got away with blaming their failures on the coaching staff. So here we are again, situation unchanged, and too many people are still looking the other way.
They R smart they R good. Even when they aren’t? Nope. No sale to this customer.
Nice riddle at the end
As fan of the sport and he was playing our the Sfgiants. I would have let the rookie pitch until the giants got a hit of him or got into some more introuble. I mean he was only 5 outs away.
Imagine that, Carl Crawford injured. A bigger worthless piece of trash baseball player never walked this earth. Referring to him as a baseball “player” or an athlete is an insult to members of both groups.
Can we refer to you as disgruntled “non” player, “non” athlete?? People like you give real baseball fans a bad name. No need for insults, so you sound like more of a piece of trash than anyone.
You are referring to the Carl Crawford with a career 291/332/437 line with almost 2000 hits and is the active leader in career triples? That’s more than a bit hyprbolic. Crawford is a good player who gets hurt more than average. That hardly makes him “trash.”