The White Sox are telling teams that they’re willing to trade any player on their roster who is under team control for less than four years, ESPN’s Buster Olney reports (subscription required). Chicago GM Rick Hahn has already spoken of wanting to pursue longer-term assets this offseason, while earlier reports have suggested that Hahn has been open to trading almost any of his current players.
The list of White Sox players with less than four years of club control remaining includes Melky Cabrera, Todd Frazier, Brett Lawrie, David Robertson, Jose Abreu, James Shields, Zach Putnam, Avisail Garcia, Miguel Gonzalez, Jake Petricka, Dan Jennings and ace Chris Sale (whose deal contains club options for 2018 and 2019 that look like no-brainers to be exercised). Jose Quintana, Adam Eaton and Nate Jones are all technically under contract for less than four years as well, though their deals all contain club options for the 2020 season and, for Eaton and Jones, options for 2021.
It remains to be seen if the Sox are planning to embark on a full-scale rebuild, though as Olney notes, other teams are becoming and more convinced that Sale will be traded this winter. “And once you trade him, why would you stop there?” one evaluator asks Olney rhetorically. As MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes pointed out in his preview of the White Sox offseason, however, the franchise has previously tried to both rebuild and reload at the same time, and the Sox could try to do so again rather than start from scratch.
There’s obviously quite a bit of talent in the aforementioned list of players, so Chicago could look to just deal one or two of those names to free up some payroll space for further moves. (The arbitration-eligible likes of Lawrie or Garcia could also be non-tendered to save some more cash.) Building on what the anonymous evaluator told Olney, it would only be clear that the White Sox are embarking on a major roster shuffle if a building block piece like Sale, Quintana or Eaton is traded.
I must say that all the talk of Sale makes me wonder if Dave Dombrowski values Sale more than Boston’s top five Prospects….i’m not so sure
Nice old English D in the background.
I hope the White Sox embark on a full blown fire sale if for no other reason than it would make for a thoroughly entertaining off-season.
I assume their fans feel differently though.
Pun intended?
A lot of their fans want a rebuild because they’ve shown year in and year out that this core isn’t good enough
being a Wsox fan Myself I would guess 3/4 of us want a full rebuild. We are just scared it won’t be done correctly
This x100.. The issue I have is I do not trust KW at the top of the org, and my support for Hahn is wavering as not many of his trades have worked out well. The finally have a good Amateur scout in Hostetler, but the rest of their org? Out to lunch for the past 5 seasons (if not longer)
It is because of this I say only trade guys that you have guys in the minors that can step up, like Davidson for Frazier, Abreu would not go anywhere either, nor would Quintana. Give Renteria a chance here and don’t sandbag him by moving EVERYONE. I think it is also safe to say that about 3/4 of the fan base believe Robin was a big part of the direction this club has taken in 5 years, along with the mismanagement at the top of the org.. Good news: Robin is finally gone (should have been gone two seasons ago). Bad news: Kenny is still here (how he is boggles the mind, considering he is the one who wanted Robin to be manager in the first place)
Given the Sox FO history I don’t blame you for being scared
You all act like rebuilds all work out in like 5-6 years. You need to have a solid GM who can pull off trades but more importantly scouts who can piece together prospects and the right farm system coaches to mature them. It takes more than just a GM.
As long as Williams is in control I guarantee it won’t be done correctly.
Exactly.
Totally agree it’s time for some new blood. Most fans can deal w/a bad team as long as there’s a plan in place ala Astros, Cubs & Royals. The Sox have proven over time they suck at drafting & developing position players, pitching on the other hand is a strength. Inject this club w/some young exciting players that learn on the field & develop together into a team.
Well I have hope in White Sox in they now have Hostetler (their new Amateur draft guy) doing their draft. Their first 4-5 picks in last years draft have looked really good, but the player development really stinks and they need to fix that (something that KW was supposedly doing for the past 5 seasons as VP of baseball ops)
I’ve been a fan all my life and I would welcome a full change. My concern is who is running that change. KW is not my choice. I would like to see Hahn handle it. I would be more excited to go to a game and watch young guys play hard rather than the bunch they have boot the ball around and strand runners.
Agreed.. your Angels really should do the same too.
No we don’t, Angels in the trout field. The vast majority of us W Sox fans are on board the full scale rebuild plan, but we don’t necessarily trust our lame ass Front Office people.
Pieces like Frazier, Abreu, and Sale could get the prospects needed to start a Cubs/ Astros style rebuild.
Didn’t the dodgers say they would trade Urias plus others for Sale at the deadline last year
Yes the did and I hope they do!
Yes they said they were open to it.
I believe Cub rebuilds take 100 years and Astro rebuilds take 20-25? Not the route I’d want my team taking.
As many people have said: If you are willing to deal Sale it makes the most sense to go ahead and do a full scale rebuild. It is obvious that what the White Sox have been attempting to do the last several seasons has not worked at all.
Chris Sale to the Astros for maybe Preston Tucker, Moran, AJ Reed, and a couple of other prospects
As for Todd Frazier , maybe the Giants
Gotta include pitching to get Sale. Makes no sense otherwise.
The White Sox would easily turn this down.
Lol
I’m just going to assume you meant prestons brother kyle but even still that’s so light.
Well I said others , obviously you’d have to include more, probably add on there top two pitching prospects and that could get it done
If the Astros are serious about trading for Chris Sale the conversation has to BEGIN with Alex Bregman. Starting points for other suitors expecting to contend in 2017 include:
Nationals…Lucas Giolito.
Dodgers…Julio Urias.
Cubs…Kyle Schwarber or Javier Baez.
Cardinals…Alex Reyes
Pirates…Tyler Glasnow
Red Sox…Yoan Moncada
If agreeable, the conversation continues with each team. If not, the White Sox simply hang up the phone and move on to the next club.
Bottom line: Sale does not have to be moved this offseason. Barring an injury, he figures to be at least as valuable at the summer non-waiver trade deadline and again next winter.
Who knows? With a new manager in place, an already solid MLB core (Sale, Jose Quintana, Jose Abreu, Adam Eaton), some productive recent top draft picks (Carlos Rodon, Tim Anderson) and more expected to contribute in 2017 (Carson Fulmer, Zack Burdi) the White Sox might actually have a chance to contend sooner rather than later with some shrewd additions this winter.
This^ (outside of schwarber) I’d rather keep Abreu then have him, he’s useless outside of being strictly a DH. Sorry cub fans, he’s terrible in the OF, and a sub-par catcher at best, and yeah I’m unfair going with 72 total games played, but the writing is (was?) on the wall (literally). Keep him. I’d rather have a DH that can pick up a position if needed and do it capably, and schwarber is not that guy, “beast” or not.
In his defense, he should be in the American League, just not on a cheap team like the W.Sox, though he’d flourish on the BoSox or Yankees however. They have the money to blow and are willing to do so.
My guess is Dom browsing balks at moving Moncada or Benintendi and Sale goes to Dodgers for a package of Bellinger, DeLeon and 2 others.
I’m pretty sure the Whitesox would balk at that dodgers package unless one of the two others you mentioned was Urias
That might get the conversation started. But I do agree that it would take another high level pitcher. Dodgers might be able to work in Holmes. But I just assume any deal with Dodgers would include ditching Puig and eating payroll so to speak for a Robertson
Holmes was traded in the Reddick/Hill trade. They white Soxs don’t need salary relief. Plus Robertson has Dodgers on his no trade list.
Do not prevent them no urias=no deal
Ahh, here come all the homer fans of other clubs to offer scraps for a guy like Sale.
As incompetent as I think the Sox org is, I doubt they would fall for something absurd like what most one sided fans come up with in their heads.
Also, I think the Sox are petrified that they make the wrong deal with Sale. Remember, he is an Ace. If you trade him you, are begging your fan base to trust your org to make the right picks in the other teams org, or you are likely going to be looking for work if that Ace wins a WS on another club and you got the likes of Avisail Garcia for him.
As for someone asking why stop there? You do not BUT you also realize you need good veteran leadership (which one could argue the Sox have lacked for 5 years with Robin mismanaging this club as much as the org was).
You do not trade both Sale and Quintana, as tempting as that may be. Keep one for leadership and for consistency in performance, in which case my vote goes all day to Quintana staying as well as Abreu at least. Eaton is just too good in RF to trade IMO, considering they really do not have anyone to replace him in the minors, and why go out and spend money on a FA when you have this guy right there? Melky is probably not going to get you a lot in the offseason, so use him as LF and DH. see if Morneau will come back for DH, and at least have something in place for Renteria to work with.
I think people and the Sox org, have to realize that for every success story like the Cubs, you see A LOT of teams try to tear it down and rebuild only to see 10-20 years of mediocrity in the org (Yes it could get worse Sox Fans, think Pirates and Royals in the mid 90’s up until about 4-5 years ago)
Also, most organizations can’t do a teardown/rebuild and expect 30,000 to show up like the Cub fans did. Typically, fans don’t throw away their hard earned money on crappy products. But Cub fans did for years.
It’s hard to drop that kind of money to watch your team lose. Not even Cub fans put up with it in 2013-2014.
Cubs fans don’t go for the product, they go for the party,and Ricketts and Epstein knew it, and knew it afforded them 4 years of sucking.
Let’s not let facts get in the way of anything. During the first five years of Ricketts ownership, which include the beginning of the Theo era, attendance at Wrigley dropped over 526,000 people. That’s more than a half million!!! So why they sucked, people did stop coming—however, when you have a fan base which is the largest in the sport you just might be able to absorb that.
The difference here is that the Cubs ownership and front office was very transparent of what they were trying to do to achieve long term sustainability. It just has happened to work so far, to the nth degree.
The White Sox on the other hand have not shown, to their fan base, any direction at all and just now almost seem to be in a mode where they are basing some moves based on what the Cubs have done.
Fact is that both the Cubs and Sox, just two seasons ago, won 73 games each. Since then the Cubs have won 200 plus a World Series. The Sox are just over 150 wins during the same span.
Cubs also have had a great manager the past two seasons. The Sox, well they had the clown and still have the clown that brought him in (KW).
IMO having a good manager could be up to a 10 game difference opposed to a team with a lousy manager. Fairly certain that Ventura’s silly moves in and outside of games cost the Sox about 5-10 games at least.
That’s only 105,000 a year. When you expect over 3 million, it’s not devestating. Besides, Nola is right: Wrigleyville is a place for the Bleacher Bums to get drunk and cheer every time the Cubs hit a damn pop-up. They kept coming to games because the on-field ineptness during the rebuilding years was no different than the on-field ineptness during any other era of Cubs baseball. And the beer didn’t change either.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
My original point was even these legendary Cub fans stopped showing up during rebuilding, what will it look like with less loyal fans. Sox were already 26th last year.
And Cubs dropped to middle of the pack for attendance in the rebuilding years. Taking you seriously, gojira, bleachers are some of the cheapest seats. It’s the suite and box level seats they had a hard time filling.
Wouldn’t mind seeing the Jays make a play for Abreu. If not him Frazier would work at 1B and 2017 is his walk year so may come cheaper than Abreu. Here you go Sox fans. Stroman, Tellez, Alford and a good prospect arm for Abreu and Quintana. That deal along with whatever you get for Sale goes a long way toward a good rebuild. Frazier likely starts the season in Chicago and gets traded at the deadline.
That’s not even enough for Quintana by himself.
Quintana is not that much better than Stroman. And he comes with control. It shouldn’t take 3 prospects on top of Stroman for him.
I would like some of what you are smoking. Quintana is light years better than Stroman
Yes. He is.
Jose Quintana and Marcus Stroman each remain under team control for four seasons, Quintana at $37..85 million (if options exercised) and Stroman for four arbitration years starting with a projected 2017 salary of $3.5 million.
Steamer projects a 2017 WAR of 4.0 for the 28-year-old Quintana in 32 starts and a 2017 WAR of 3.2 for the 26-year-old Stroman in 28 starts.
Quintana may well have more value but the discrepancy is not all that great.
You’re using Steamer projections to evaluate pitchers? That’s crazy. Quintana has 2 5+ win seasons, a 4 win season, and a 3.5 win season his last 4 years. Stroman’s best season so far has been a 2 win season, something that Quintana has never been below. When Stroman finally lives up to his potential/projections, then we can talk. But until then, Quintana will continue to be a much better pitcher.
And no, I’m not just using WAR to evaluate the two. Quintana is currently better in MANY regards. I just don’t feel the need to elaborate further when it’s really not even that close at this point.
No, actually Quintana is that much better than Stroman.
Also setting aside that Quintana has had outrageously horrible run production behind him where Stroman has had one of the best offenses behind him.
So is there really any chance eaton gets traded unless it’s a way overpay. Because I would really like to see Seattle go after him but it doesn’t look Seattle and Chicago are a much.
Would mind seeing the Sox and Jays hook up. Abreu and Quintana for Stroman, Tellez, Alford and one of our good young minor league arms. And will throw in Smoak as well. That haul along with what they get for Sale is pretty much the rebuild. Frazier likely goes at next years trade deadline since its his walk year and someone will overpay.
* Wouldn’t
I don’t know enough about the Jays farm to give my two cents about the deal, but why would the Sox want Smoak? If the Jays insist Smoak is included, they’d also probably need to include more.
I assume the Sox would need a 1B but that was more sarcastic than anything because Smoak sucks and he is any part of the Jays 1B plans for 2017, platoon or otherwise I will hand myself!!
Jays would have to eat part of the contract likely…if the Sox even wanted him.
They do not. Carry-on.
I doubt the Sox trade two major pieces in one deal. They can get more by spreading the trades around to get the top talent from as many organizations as possible.
That’s just way light. Stroman has same years of control as Q. Alford and Tellez aren’t elite prospects. Alford and Tellez may get Abreu – maybe.
And certainly Q is >>>>>>>>> Stroman.
BWhahaha.. ohh wait, you are serious? Why would the Sox trade two great players for a bunch of middling players?
Quintana is LIGHT YEARS better than Stroman and has near Ace Stuff and mentality. Quintana has long suffered due to lack of offense whereas Stroman has had some of the best offensive talent behind him and still has done as well as he has.
If they’re going to rebuild then go all-in on the rebuild and start trading anyone and everyone that brings back prospects. Build up a top 5 farm system and then come up with a 3 yr plan to getting back to the playoffs.
If you are speaking about the Sox, you have to have a great org to have a 3 yr plan. I love how everyone thinks that because the Cubs did it, anyone can. The Cubs have the best baseball org in baseball right now with the best manager as well.
The Sox do not have the right guys in place in the org. Not with Williams still running the show with an out of touch owner that keeps him around. Williams is far more adapt at trading talent away than getting good talent in return, and after Hahn traded for Garcia instead of Iglesias I doubt his skill right now in talent evaluation. I hope the Sox can at least get a great deal and get players that are impactful for Sale but I’m not holding my breath.
The sox have the cubs didnt – young controllable top tier talent, thus they can rebuild in half the time.
Trading all or some combination of eaton, sale, Quintana and abreau should provide the pieces to make them the top farm in all of baseball. But for a rebuild to be success, you must dive much deeper than that. However, the multi-million dollar question is will their personnel in player development transform the prospects into impactful players at the major league level?
All that young talent they get could make for a serious contender in the future or an awesome AAAA team. Buyer beware on prospects. Especially SP. Good examples are highly touted Giolotto and even Urias. They haven’t blown anyone away…yet.
No, BUT the Cubs DO have a top tier organization that the Sox clearly do not have. the Sox trading all of the talent they have for magic beans is not going to make the club better. The Sox really need to trade the owner away along with his VP lapdog in Kenny Williams before this team gets better any time soon. The Sox now have a good draft guy in place in Hostetler. It is a start, but a lot more needs to happen and I do not think it does until the owner gives up the team.
Only surprise in this article is they didn’t mention trading away there ball boys or food vendors. Maybe trade away some janitors. The whole white Sox organization is like the angels farm system…hopeless.
minus Sale
Your gang blew a 3-1 lead in the WS, Triber4life.One stinking win away and 2 home games left to get it, and NO SOUP FOR YOU. Eventually the Tribe will go back to being an after thought before they win a stinking WS.
If the tribe had a healthy Carrasco and Salazar in the rotation, it could of beena different outcome but the grind of the cubs won.
butt hurt much cause ur Sox suck? we lost to a better team. I am proud. we were in the playoffs, something your joke of a team won’t sniff for a long time.
Outside of the trade chatter, when was the last time the White Sox were relevant? I mean I guess you would know a thing or two about “after thoughts” since the White Sox have been one for a while now.
In 2o05 when they won the World Series. Something that the Indians haven’t done in almost 70 years…
Lets not act like Cleveland has been anymore than an after thought the last decade too up until this year.
no one even cares the white Sox are even in the league anymore. Chicago is cubs tiwn
town
Chicago has always been Cubs town. Nothing has changed.
I’d rather see my team not make the playoffs instead of blowing a 3-1 lead in the WS. Cleveland has good young talent, but I also think the stars aligned a bit for them to make it as far as they did last season. With a healthy club who knows?
The White Sox can both rebuild/retool this offseason AND reload at the same time with the proper trades. They simply need to make sure they receive quality and controllable players and/or high level prospects who are expected to make their big league debuts no later than the upcoming season.
The White Sox need to refrain from the “quick fix” approach they embarked on the past two offseasons and return to their philosophy of 2013 when they focused on acquiring longer term assets. That offseason they signed international free agent Jose Abreu and traded for Adam Eaton. FA signings and trades that only target these type players can potentially have them contending this season as well as upgrading their roster for the long term.
Whitesox just need to keep sale
White Sox need to trade Sale
Not for anything less than firstborn. Make it religious, it’s all they understand.
Wouldn’t mind the Yanks making a play for Shields. After his horrid season he could be a buy low option to fill a rotation spot. I have no idea what kind of prospects the White Sox would want for him though. Couldn’t imagine it be any of the top guys seeing as Shields had an ERA near 6. Maybe the Yanks take on his salary or something.
Yankees could literally just take him
He’s all yours. He’d be an absolute disaster pitching in the AL East at Yankee Stadium
Do not prevent them
Please just take him and throw the Yanks worst prospect at the White Sox.
How about they be nice and at least throw in a couple of signed A-Rod and Texiera balls?
White Sox would want a good young current mlb position player with at least 4 years of control, a mlb ready or near ready high upside starting pitcher, one highly ranked prospect and another good prospect for Sale. From Boston that would be Bradley, ERod, Devers and Swihart.. Houston- Bergman, Tucker, Paulino and Cameron. Braves- Inciarte, Albies, Wisler and Newcomb. Dodgers- Pederson, Bellinger, Deleon and Barnes. Nats: Turner,Ross,Fedde and Ward. Those are the only teams that can offer the right package of players while still contending and not totally empty their farm system. I left out the Cubs due to I can’t see the White Sox dealing him to cross town rivals and the Yankees I think want to continue to build up their farm while waiting for Harper and Machado to hit free agency.
The White Sox have no need for JBJ if they are rebuilding. Any deal starts with either Benintendi or Moncada. I assume it’s Benintendi. Then you move to ERod, then you move to Kopech then if I’m the White Sox I tell them I want Devers or multiple players.
Exactly, Bryce. Thanks
JBJ, ERod, Devers, and Swihart does not get you Sale. I’m guessing that one of Moncada/Benintendi must be included in any deal for Sale.
Everything Bryce said is incredibly realistic. But honestly, I really think the Nats should stay out of this conversation. They shouldn’t take anything of value (Turner)off of that roster this year. So sign Hill and take your chances. As for the rest, very reasonable.
Quintana to the Red Sox what would it take ? ERod and Bradley Jr. That seems fair.
Quintana to any other team would be difficult unless they could come up with a pretty decent pitcher. Strohman is possible but not sure if the Jays top prospect is good enough.
They do not have a Bradley Jr. talent.
No. Q is a top 10 pitcher with 4 years of cheap control. He is going to be v. expensive
Again, same goes for Q. It’s going to take Devers, Kopech, ERod and another good prospect. If not Benintendi, ERod and more.
If not more than this.
Never mind saving cash for other signings, that ship had “SALED.” The Sox need to sell off their assets for elite prospects to restock their farm system.
The Yankees assembled the #2 rated farm system in baseball by trading a couple of relievers. The Sox can, and should do better than that with the assets they have to trade.
The Yankees have traded off most of their worthwhile prospects. And their closer. For nothing. Salary dump Maybe.
The Yankees have a bunch of prospects, what are you talking about?
Bit odd to say, the Yankees did very well for themselves during this last trade deadline.
Here’s some fun armchair GM trades for Sale by team:
Braves: Albies, Newcomb, Maintan & Weigel
***Swanson’s not happening so let’s just throw that out there. So you get your future 2b combo w/Anderson. Newcomb is close to breaking thru to MLB rotation & has some great potential. The key in this deal is Maintan, 5 tool player at a young age, leave him in the minors & let him develop. Weigel is a potential end of the rotation starter or long reliever.
Dodgers: Urias, Bellinger, Calhoun & Barnes
***Urias slots into starting rotation, Bells get can play LF or 1b, let him do his things in the minors until he forces his wAy onto the MLB roster. Calhoun is the ultimate Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, dude flat out rakes & is a butcher in the field, he makes Schwaber look like a gold glover. Barnes is a stopgap catching option until Collins proves he can be an everyday Catcher. Dodgers have some other intangible projects to swap if this doesn’t hit close.
Nationals: Giolito, Robles, Stevenson & Glover
***Sox get a SP to slot into the rotation. You get a potential 5 tool OF for the future. Stevenson continues to hit & play great df & Glover is another power arm you can develop into a SP or back of the bullpen.
Red Sox: JBJ, Moncada or Devers, Kopech & Swirhart
***I don’t see DD trading Benintendi (Nintendo) so that’s why JBJ goes. If I’m Hahn I’m asking for both Moncada & Devers & build around that w/Swirhart & a lower level prospect.
Yankees: Frasier, Mateo, Acevedo & Adams
***Sox get their starting LF of the future in Frasier, Mateo can eventually slot into 2b. You get two you power pitchers to build into the a Rotation or Relief. This might not be enough, some will suggest you add Torres instead of Mateo & Judge for Frasier. Either way it’s interesting prospects to package.
Again, this is done for fun & probably a stretch or too light in some of your eyes (depending what team you cheer for). I left the Pirates, Stros, Rangers & Cubs off this list. Pirates won’t pony up & I think their in a bit of a identity crisis. Astros have made some interesting trades & FA signings + I’m not sure they meet the needs of the Sox. Rangers where a perfect fit during the trade deadline, but they traded some of the assets + they won’t trade any of their MLB talent. The shine is rubbing off of Profar & Casey at the Bat Gallo. Well that leaves the crosstown WS champs, need I say more? Theo hang ups when Hahn asks for Schwarbimo & Baez. As many of you’ve mentioned the Sox need to blow it up & rebuild. My concern (as many) is KW will have his say in this & that scares the SH!T out of me & all Sox fan. As he once told Frank Thomas “you better stay out of White Sox Business” take a piece of your own advice. Thanks for 2005 now go fly a kite. Let Hahn build his team, let’s see what he can do. Two things will help his cause: 1. Be transparent w/the players & fans. Fans will be more forgiving if your honest (Royals, Astros & Cubs as examples) w/them + I’d rather watch young kids learn & grow together as a team. Can’t stand the Cubs, but I respect their FO & players, their a young fun group to watch play the game. 2. Read my earlier comment, keep KW in Arizona on the golf course & as far away from Hahn & his crew. Hopefully after a couple years the Sox can develop their young talent & compete for a playoff spot year in year out…one can dream.
Cheers