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Email a copy of 'NL Notes: Pirates, Cardinals, Urias' to a friend
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ronnsnow
Curious to know where the money saved from the Liriano dump went? Typical PR statements the Pirates make every year, yet payroll never goes over 100mil
clepto
Apparently you do not follow the Pirates too well then…that Loriano savings has been well documented.
leefieux
They signed Hudson, Freeze and Nova. Now you know. 🙂
TrollHunter
Ok if that’s how you see it, but there were other salaries that came off the books. The fact is that payroll has steadily decreased each year AFTER winning 98 games. Nutting is a joke of an owner, and he should be forced to where a “ski mask” when addressing the public he continuously robs!
Retired NFL Player
He should be forced to sell. He can’t actually be forced but the fans and residents of Pittsburgh should boycott the team completely until he sells. Don’t buy any gear or tickets. Keep that up a while and he will notice. Make it clear that you demand ownership willing to spend money and go all-in. Not a guy who wants to make as much money as possible and if they win too, cool.
TJECK109
You fit your name well Troll. So tired of so called Pirates fans complaining about Nutting. Here is the bottom line TROLL he is a business owner. He purchased the team with HIS money. HE has the right to make a profit off of HIS business. Baseball is no different than any other business in America. Owners are in it to make MONEY not to make sure TROLL is satisfied with how much is being spent on payroll. Just a typical uneducated and ignorant fan.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Still waiting for the first yinzer to notice the Pirates have one of the lowest average ticket prices instead of just one of the lowest payrolls and demand that Nutting raise ticket prices.
Yinzers want a $150 million payroll and $10 tickets.
All with one of the lowest local TV deals in the game.
Yinzers aren’t very good at math.
halos101
troll, as much as fans want to see owners go all in too win, their are a ton of owners that prefer money over winning. Nutting is one of those owners
Retired NFL Player
No one disagrees with that, but if you were a Pirates fan would you be satisfied? Fans want wins and championships. Maybe you are uneducated and ignorant to that?
Every fan of any team in any sport just want to win. That’s all. Same for me. I’ve always been a winner.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
How much more would you be willing to pay for Pirates tickets to help deliver that championship?
Teams like the Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers have between between 500% and 1000% more revenue and resources than the Pirates despite having tickets that are only 200-300% more expensive.
How much do you want that winner? What’s it worth to you?
Polymath
Would it be acceptable to you if he sold the team to a great owner who moved the team to another city?
troll
TJECK10913, his name is TrollHunter. i’m troll
TJECK109
I’m not uneducated and ignorant to that at all Retired. But throwing money at a team doesn’t guarantee a winner. I sat through an NHL team in Pittsburgh that went through bankruptcy because of ownership spending.
If Nutting ups the payroll and the team doesn’t win a championship then what? Keep spending till you are broke but hope you won a title?
Robertowannabe
The yinzers forget about all of the trading of prospects and the signing of veteran free agents in the early 90’s that did not bring a winner but did bring on 20 years of losing because they gutted the farm system and signed guys who could not produce. Teams like the Cubs, Yanks, Dodgers etc can afford to sign the wrong guy and eat a few years of bad contracts. Mid market and small market do not have that same luxury.
joew
pretty sure freeze extension was before frankie leaving but could be wrong, novas deal is a modest one and hudson is a good example of how pen arms are paid too much.
also have to factor in that hutchison still has a contract for some reason and reduced that savings a few million
they could have done all of this pretty comfortably with out trading liriano.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The return on trading Liriano was getting rid of Liriano. He was hurting the team every 5 days.
He was done in the NL. They figured him out. He needed to change leagues again. Any success he has with the Jays is irrelevant, he would still be getting lit up in the NL.
joew
you can justify getting rid of Liriano but you cannot justify the cost to do so.
but whatever keep trying
Robertowannabe
Freese was extended after.
mlbtraderumors.com/2016/08/pirates-extend-david-fr…
Robertowannabe
Ok, so instead of the deal that Huntington made, you had two other options. Eating Liriano’s contract and cut him and not having that money to extend Freese, sign Nova, and Hudson..
Let him pitch out his contract, giving the Pirates a loss pretty much every time he took the mound. Still no Freese, Nova, or Hudson.
Huntington had to do what he did to move Liriano. The Cost? McGuire still his hitting horribly in AA .216 in AA ball and currently on the DL. Ramirez is .219 in AAA ball. :Liriano was doing in Toronto this year what he did in Pittsburgh last year. Either gave up a ton of runs early and run out after a couple of innings. Doing ok for a time or two going through the order then getting shelled. or doing well and giving up nothing and leaving after 5 because he already threw over 100 pitches then still killing the bullpen. At least Hutchison is 2-1 with a 3.74 ERA in AAA..
Now tell me, Was that deal really horrible??
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Yinzers were told once that Reese McGuire was the catcher of the future so the fact that now he MIGHT be the next Chris Stewart at best IF he pans out means nothing to them.
At the same time, the Pirates traded two absolute nobody prospects for a #2 starter who they resigned on a barren pitching market for peanuts, but why notice that when you can whine about trading nothing to get rid of a guy who was hurting your team?
TJECK109
What was the cost Joe W? Please enlighten us with your chat board based opinion.
joew
cool thanks. also well after Mark and Jon’s Trade too it seems
joew
Thats just not true Gozurman1, they had the money to sign freese and nova which pretty much blows everything else up in your comment.
But the point was it wasn’t an either or situation, never was.
Hudson shouldn’t have been signed for the money he signed for to begin with.
Meadows is barley hitting .200 now in AAA as well. Lets trade him and Antonio B. and see if we can get some other overpriced busted prospect and then watch Antonio B. go on to win the reliever of the year award ( sarcasm is thick there but just in case.. here is the sarcasm sign.. /s)
They should’ve just kept Liriano at the price it took to get rid of him.. still extended Freese. The least they could’ve done is non-tendered Hutch to save those few million as well since it was a salary dump. The pirates probably could’ve found a better deal in the offseason and still saved 13M (which is about what they ended up saving cash wise for the dead line deal)
joew
numbers numbers numbers business 😀
EDIT: took me a minute to figure out which comment you where replying too..
Cost of loosing to of the top 30 prospects and getting a busted prospect and paying his salary. EVEN IF the prospects we gave up now have a ceiling of bench role payers.. its still much better than what we got. (including the salary dump)
leefieux
Note to NH: Nice sentiment, but $5 mil doesn’t buy much these days.
bastros88
I agree, what could they possibly get for 5 million
desertbull
$5 million will get you 2 beers and a pretzel at Yankee stadium
CubsFanForLife
One day the fans will protest these ridiculous prices to pay for insane contracts. Until then, I’ll bring my food and drinks to the ballpark from home.
JFactor
That’s not what’s paying for the contracts
SuperSinker
The money is still being made regardless. I’d rather the players get more money than owner pocketing it.
JKB 2
Thank you JFactor …. its the TV money that drives contracts not the ticket revenue
Robertowannabe
But if you are in a mid to small to mid market city, you do not get huge TV contracts for your local games. You need ticket and concession revenue to help pay player contracts as well. You are correct that TV money drives the contracts. That is why the large market teams can shell out for the big contracts while most others can not. They get a ton of TV money.
CompanyAssassin
Typical Mozeliak, “addresses” the problem by saying he thinks we’re fine and does nothing. Obviously something has gone wrong in the bullpen when suddenly ALL of our normally good players are having problems. Cecil is either spot on or awful, along with Siegrist and Rosenthal, Socolovich is literally worth at least 2 runs for the opposing team in every appearance, Tuivailala isn’t much better, Broxton is worse than Socolovich, so that leaves us with Bowman and Oh as our only somewhat stable players, and both of them aren’t as sharp. Soco needs to go as soon as Lyons is back.
Ithink it would be worthwhile to invest in a somewhat decent bullpen arm. We have the money/prospects to do it, and I’m not talking a Greg Holland or Jansen, but I don’t think Watson is out of the realm of possibility. Maybe not the smartest being he’d only be a rental, but right now, something is better than nothing.
desertbull
I understand your frustration but almost every team thinks their bull pen sucks. Even the best teams have about 3 guys they can count on and the other 4-5 guys in the pen either cant throw strikes or cant keep the ball out of the bleachers.
CompanyAssassin
No I thought pretty highly of our bullpen coming into the season. Loved Oh, Bowman, liked the Cecil signing, Rosenthal looked good in ST, was excited to see Lyons return, Soco also looked good in ST. Only had doubts of Siegrist from last season and Broxton (Tuivailala wasn’t on the roster). I feel like the coaching staff broke our guys or something.
desertbull
If he needs money he should write a book about how he skirted the roids testing for 3 seasons.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
If (and this is far from a given) the Pirates actually want to spend some money…lock up Bell and Taillon long term.
SuperSinker
Taillon hasn’t been able to stay healthy for better or worse. I’m not sure it would be wise to invest money in him. And Bell has a couple years or minimum salary before they have to think about extending him
joew
with the heart Taillon has i’d offer him a 20 year (very) low ball extension with modest guaranteed money loaded with incentives that could earn him record money. if he is healthy and in cy young contention…. but that’s probably why i’m not a GM 😉
66TheNumberOfTheBest
I don’t mean right now.
But, once they get a new local TV deal (2019) many of the excuses dry up and then it’s time to bump up the MLB payroll and stop the constant churn of players or else the Nutting bashers will be proven correct.
We’ll see.
Cardinals17
Personally I’m sick of the Cardinals General Manager’s excuses after excuses, his don’t care attitude and his obtaining low leaf players for top tier prices. His lame excuse this time is “They look good on paper!” So does Donald Duck, but he can’t play baseball!!!!
Cardinals17
Bring Jockerty Back!!!!!
mbgutt
I’m a recovering pirates fan, but I simply don’t watch or care because I feel ownership is not committed to winning. Glad the penguins do well and Steelers start in august. Slowly beginning to not care much about baseball.