Off to a major league-worst 14-24 start, the Giants look like sellers in the making. The problem is that the veterans they could attempt to move are lacking in trade value, observes Buster Olney of ESPN. The best of the bunch is Johnny Cueto, but the offseason opt-out clause in the right-hander’s contract takes away some of his appeal. Then there’s righty Jeff Samardzija, who owns a 5.44 ERA in 46 1/3 innings (albeit with a 3.43 FIP) and is due upward of $60MM through 2020, as well as aging outfielders Hunter Pence and Denard Span. The 34-year-old Pence is making $18.5MM both this year and next, while Span, 33, is on a $9MM salary through 2018 and has a $4MM buyout for 2019.
More from the West divisions:
- The Dodgers will keep left-hander Alex Wood in their rotation when southpaw Rich Hill and righty Brandon McCarthy return from the disabled list next week, manager Dave Roberts told reporters Saturday (Twitter link via Andy McCullough of the Los Angeles Times). Wood opened the season in the bullpen, but the results have been too good to ignore since he moved to the rotation in late April. Across four starts and 22 innings, Wood has allowed four earned runs (all in his May 2 outing), with a whopping 34 strikeouts against four walks. Given that Wood, Hill, McCarthy and Clayton Kershaw are presumably on the cusp of occupying four-fifths of Los Angeles’ rotation, either Julio Urias or Hyun-Jin Ryu will end up as the odd man out.
- The Mariners’ top four starting pitchers, James Paxton, Felix Hernandez, Hisashi Iwakuma and Drew Smyly, are all on the disabled list, leading general manager Jerry Dipoto to tell Bob Dutton of the Tacoma News Tribune: “You always try to be prepared for the worst-case scenario, but this has set a new bar.” In the latest blow to Seattle’s starting depth, fill-in Ryan Weber left his season debut in the fourth inning of the club’s loss to Toronto on Saturday and is now on the DL with right shoulder tightness. While Dipoto has a reputation as a transaction-happy GM, having averaged one move every 15 hours, 45 minutes since the Mariners set their Opening Day roster (per Dutton, on Twitter), he doesn’t expect to bolster his rotation from outside the organization. “It’s a tough time of year to find external help,” he said. “Our most realistic and best options remain those in house.”
- Rangers third baseman Adrian Beltre continues progressing toward a May return, writes T.R. Sullivan of MLB.com. Beltre, who hasn’t played this year because of a strained right calf, took batting practice and fielded ground balls on Saturday. Manager Jeff Banister called the workout “very positive” and added, “It was as good as he has felt through this entire process.” Upon his return, Beltre will take over for Joey Gallo at third base, though the power-hitting 24-year-old should still rack up plenty of at-bats at other positions, including the corner outfield and/or first base.
If you think Julio urias will end as the odd man out you’re insane. He’s been untouchable so far and even Roberts said he’s going to remain in the rotation it’s going to look like kershaw , maeda, wood , urias then rich hill and McCarthy have to fight for the last spot
Maeda should be put in the bullpen right now. So you can have Kershaw, Wood, Hill, Urias, Ryu/McCarthy
Too many lefties get rid of Ryu and Maeda and get a named player pitcher righty
They are going to manage Urias carefully. If you look at his work, for all the clear talent, he still pitches like a rookie. Lots of wasted pitches. We need to remember, he’s still only 20 years old. They will get him the polish he needs anywhere and any way required.
Could the Dodgers fetch Cueto/Darvish with Calhoun Diaz?
Sounds more realistic for Darvish. Besides trading Cueto within the division, Calhoun needs to go to an AL team where he can DH.
Calhoun can play second defensively just as good as a third of big league players.
“Amateur scouts had difficulty deciphering where Calhoun would ultimately fit on the defensive spectrum and an answer to that question still eludes pro evaluators. The Dodgers are hoping he can pass at second base but scouts outside the org aren’t optimistic. The lateral range and quickness fall quite short of the norm there. The arm is light for third base and Calhoun, who is already a 30 runner, arguably already lacks the foot speed to play an average outfield corner and is only going to get bigger than his current 5-foot-6, 200-plus-pound frame.” link to fangraphs.com
But I’m sure you know better than them.
Doesn’t mean his bat doesn’t play..kinda like what I said 1/3. Oh and those guys are always 100%. WTH
Scouts aren’t always correct, of course but 5’6″, 200 pound second basemen are…well…nonexistent.
Well he’s more like 5’8. Ronnie belliard did ok.
I think the point we are missing here is what he looks like towards the end of this year. I can think of countless guys who have transformed themselves defensively around this point in their careers. With advanced coaching and essentially it being his profession I wouldn’t short sell a grinder like him. He dropped around 20 pounds in the offseason and the reports seem to be positive about his defensive progression. Now I’m not fooling myself into believing he’s going to be a gg caliber mif, but his bat provides him leeway. With shifts and def positioning his defensive deficiencies can somewhat be hidden. Only time will tell.
“Calhoun can play second defensively just as good as a third of big league players.”
“Doesn’t mean his bat doesn’t play..kinda like what I said 1/3.”
Cuz his bat allows him to play defense better than 1/3 of the 2b in MLB? Wtf are you even talking about? And while evaluators are certainly not 100% correct, I will take their observations and opinions over yours, the random internet commenter who is just moving the goal posts for his argument that was clearly uninformed.
None of this changes that he is slow and lacks lateral speed and quickness. None of it.
Let me inform you of the Dodgers having scouts and talent evaluators. They are paid to make these decisions for their organizations and not the sites you read. Yea you’re that guy that can do better research then the Dodgers,but I’ll stick with them..thanks for your thoughts though!
I have a feeling they will get a better package than that from someone for Darvish. Rangers already have a young controllable 2B
Who? odor?
Yes
No such arms would require premier arms that I’m pretty sure the Dodgers would be unwilling to give up in a rental situation. I’d also have to believe the Dodgers being more apt to trade Verdugo than Diaz. With Calhoun’s bat I’m not so sure they wouldn’t be willing to give him up in a rental situation. It may just end up playing out like a Schwarber situation. It’s a premier middle of the order bat with some defensive deficiencies. With his offensive output you can live with a passable lf/2b. With shifts in play they can cover up a lot of issues. It also helps that his work ethic is off the charts compared to some of the youthful immaturity and questions surrounding Verdugo. If anything I can see them trying to obtain one more lock down reliever than an ace type of pitcher. To be honest I’d like to see them kick the tires on Estrada.
They already traded Holmes, Cotton and Montas for a pair of rentals last year
Look at the profiles though, none were premium prospects and none really had clearly defined paths. They were good prospects, but Cotton had the highest upside of maybe a mid rotation guy if all broke right. Holme’s stuff had backed up and was looking more so like a RP. He still continues to see his fair share of struggles. Montas was coming off injury and a 2 pitch profile with command issues. Granted Montas does possess a big fastball but fb/sl rep is not really that much different than Baez. Yet Baez ch appears to be progressing. Cotton wasn’t going to break the rotation and he didn’t have the ability to get hot quick to potentially contribute in a relief mode. Plus their view of relief arms is more that they are expendable.
When discussing prospects the Dodgers are more than willing to trade prospects that they don’t feel are elite type guys. Clamps are on the Seager’s, Bellinger’s, Urias’s, Buehler’s, Alvarez’s so on so forth. Although, I could realistically see them moving a guy like Alvarez for a controllable young arm. Now I don’t believe they view Verdugo or Rios in much the same light. So yes they are motivated in a sense for rentals, especially if they are trying to steer clear of big contracts, but I don’t see them unloading the farm of those they view as having an elite type skill set.
Alvarez has an elite skill set. There are few if any pitchers in the world who are more projectable than Alvarez.
They sure did, and that didn’t work out too well for them.
If dodgers want cueto they need to get another team to trade for him first. No way they would give their prospects to the giants
Yea a deal w/San Fran isn’t gonna happen, NO WAY their gonna watch their farm grown kids come back to haunt them for years wearing a Giant uniform. Would love too see Kershaw-Darvish 1-2, at what cost..? Been real payroll conscious 4 awhile now, no high ticket players, get Darvish n pay em, make it happen, 1988 was along time ago…Go Dodgers!
If the Dodgers are to spend big bucks, they’re better off waiting until after the 2018 season when some real big names are free agents. Guys like Harper, Machado and others including their own Kershaw.
gawd harper in a dodger uniform would make a big douchebag an even bigger douchebag – I don’t even want to imagine it.
Doubtful. In a deal for Darvish, I think the Rangers will hold out for Yadier Alvarez or Walker Buehler.
As if the Dodgers really need more starting pitching.
I didn’t say they needed to make that deal, it’s just what the Rangers would do.
Pretty sure the Dodgers are hanging onto Alvarez and Buehler
Completely agree.
You are going to need a lot more than that
I doubt that the Giants would trade anyone on their team to a rival especially the Dodgers. That’s like saying the Red Sox should trade Price or Sale to the Yankees. And that would never happen
Darvish sounds nice, but someone like Marcus Stroman sounds more realistic, beneficial, and financially reasonable, especially with an old Blue Jays team struggling.
Anybody who helps, even better, cost less in prospects n contract, Darvish is just a very high startin point, lotsa good P’s out there, believe only 2nd tier prospects available to deal anyway, look at dividends Urias, Bellinger, Seager already payin, these kids are foundation for future…Bleedin Blue!
11-4 last 15. Stroshow ain’t going anywhere.
They are only called league worst bc d comes before f
But they are tied for the league worst
Doesn’t take a genius to notice that
Well The Padres are 4-2 in the 6 games between the two teams this year. And the Padres are 11-14 in division games vs 10-17 that the giants have. So the padres have the better record
Better record is the wrong word.. but at the end of the season, the Padres would be ahead of them for those reasons
Fister back home to the Mariners?
By the time Fister could be ready, they may get 2 of their starters back. They need help they can put in the rotation now, not in 2 or 3 weeks
Buster ought to be smarter than that. Why would a contending team trade for Samardzija? His performance is one of the reasons the Giants are in their present predicament. Guy has great stuff but can’t command any of it, therefore it doesn’t play.
I think that was Olney’s point. Record wise, the Giants should be sellers but they really have nothing to sell. Even their obvious trade pieces are not going to be terribly appealing for prospective buyers. The only pieces that other teams may be interested in are the inexpensive, controllable pieces that the Giants will need moving forward.
The Dodgers would be smart to try to unload an OF this offseason. The only other option would be to try and move AGone, they need to find a way to keep Puig Pederson Toles(when healthy) and Bellinger in the lineup. And the only way I could see that happening is if they move AGone in the offseason. Because Toles is out for the year they should keep AGone and have Bellinger play left but next year when Toles is back have Puig in right Pederson in center and Toles in left and have Bellinger at first. Then add Seager and Turner as well as Grandal and who ever is the Dodgers second baseman next year(wouldn’t be surprised if they give Taylor the job and move Forsyth) then obviously have Kershaw and Urius in the rotation and they could try to get someone like Gray from the Athletics and then Janson and company in the bullpen. The Dodgers are built for now and for the future with a good combination of young players and veterans
They’re pretty much already doing all of this
I think they’ll keep Forsythe through next season though, doubtful they go after a high priced SP, also I think they’ll keep Gonzo til his contract is up. They had Toles, Pederson, and Puig as their most used outfield, Taylor is in while Forsythe is injured, Bellinger is in while Gonzo and Toles are injured.
I still believe Puig is on the move if they have a chance to unload him in a deal for a rental OF. Gonzo receives 10-5 this year and no one is realistically looking for a 21M first baseman. You’ll see Taylor continue in his inf it’ll role spelling everyone.
The writing is on the wall…the organization, someone high up does not like Puig, know a bunch of his teammates have been critical of em in past. He’s a great talent when focused and playing w/purpose. If they do move em, they better get a good haul, and can we please stop mentioning, hinting, breathing the name Ryan Braun…know he’s a local boy, valley kid, maybe if he were on the juice again u know n maybe if he were let’s say GOOD again n not incredibly overpriced, so please, NO…STOP!!! Let’s trade away good young talent, Lilly, Wetteland, Konerko, Pedro, for washed-up turds ala desperate Lasorda days…NOT.
They aren’t getting a haul for Puig. He’s most likely a secondary piece in a bigger trade, but definitely not a headliner. He’s an average player, with an above average skill set, who offers little in the way of controllable years.
There is absolutely zero trade market for Adrian Gonzalez. He’s done.
A Team that needs a DH.
Jose Quintana/Frazier from the White Sox for Vergo,Diaz,Alvarez and so on?
Not sure I see how DH is going to help. His defensive skills are a plus. It’s his hitting that has suffered, but mainly due to the tendonitis, which does generally improve with rest.
Why not stay with a six man rotation. Kershaw, McCarthy, Urías, Wood, Ryu, and Hill? Everyone has a chance to contribute, everyone has an extra day of rest (especially Kershaw!!!), keeping their arms fresh for the postseason. When Maeda gets back, replace him for Urías and they can move Julio to the pen until another pitcher gets hurt. This puts him in high pressure situations to develop while also saving his arm as well for what matters, the postseason. Or trade some surplus pitchers (they also still have Kazmir) and a prospect for a starter like Marcus Stroman or a really good reliever like Felipe Rivero.
Oh boy you don’t go to a 6 man bc that’s the easiest way to blow the pen, especially if you’re not sure 5 of them can go deep into games. A 6 man entails one less pen piece or a short bench.You also don’t want Kersh throwing significantly less games. You don’t move Urias to the pen, because he needs to pitch. He eventually needs to develop a full starters workload. Kaz is still in extended topping out at 84. Lastly you can trade surplus, but you’re surplus isn’t going to land you anything close to Stro or Rivero. They are controllable young pieces and the excess brings negative value. I agree there is going to be a backend of the bullpen need and it’s going to cost. The other issue remains with injuries they’ve sustained it’s not a good plan to throw Ryu,McCarthy, or even Maeda for that matter in the pen. The surplus is interesting it’s just going to be a juggling act.
Thinking about it, it would be silly to do a 6 man rotation for the whole year. My main reason for putting out this thought was for Kershaw, who almost yearly goes through an enormous workload in the regular season it’s preposterous to ask him to perform the same or way better come October. But maybe for the majority middle part of the season, at least until around the All Star break or trading deadline, it would work and really preserve arms. My thinking is that with a 6 man rotation, we would still have the traditional 7 man bullpen. Similarly, we’d still have the short 4 man bench Doc has had for most of the year. I know these starters (Kersh’s excluded) are capable of going deep into games, but at times they’ve also shown the incapacity to get out of the 5th. If the bullpen does get burned, simply move the 6th man into the pen. For me this is Julio bc of what I said, put him in major pressure situations to learn to work out of. But in the rounds that the BP is fresh, he can be put right back into the rotation to develop that starter workload, like you said. That gives the Dodgers a very enviable 2 for 1 weapon. Messing with the rotation like this week in and week out will be exactly that: messy. And I’m not saying it should be one week 6 man, one week not. But a specific routine would possibly help the transition, which could also be influenced by playing on the road and against a certain opponent. Like you said, it’s just juggling right now.
The starter surplus we have, with the contracts and age, I know is hard to get rid off and almost foolish to try to with their constant injuries. I was just throwing it in there as part of wishful thinking as part of a package to get rid of an underperforming pitcher for someone who could really help us out, like Stroman. Obviously the Blue Jays would never take one of the surplus pitchers straight up for Stroman. I know a package of prospects could possibly do the trick, revolving around names like Calhoun and Yadi Álvarez, but maybe they would also like a proven major league starter as they close out the year ( I really don’t think they’ll be above .500 at years end). Stroman has a good track record both regular and postseason, he’s young and, being able to say this from actually being there, he fed off the energy at Dodger Stadium really well during the WBC, almost the way José Fernández did in Miami. I just don’t want to see the Dodgers put together a big package of prospects for a pitcher like Ervin Santana, who looks real good to start off the year but has not been nearly as dominating in his overall career. The Dodgers have made mistakes on pitchers like that in the past and have been burned badly. Lastly, Rivero, I don’t know how to get him, especially if something similar to the Stroman trade works out. I know they could use a hitting prospect but that won’t be enough. Thoughts?
Stop talking about Stroman. It’s not going to happen.
I get it. I think Urias needs to pitch. Part of ineffectiveness this year is he hasn’t really thrown. He didn’t throw in ST and he was in idle at AAA. I would like him to throw every 5th day to get a rhythm. Obviously there are going to be instances where he is 10 Dld or skipped to check his innings. I just think in order to go to a 6 man it’d have to be a rotation of 5th guys. It’d be nice to have that 6th/7th have option able years. Although that may be a reality when Stewart and Oaks are deemed ready.
I’d love Stroman, but he’s going to clean out your farm for ML ready and elite prospects. Which in the same sense TOR has no reason to trade. In terms of SP the Dodgers might target you’re looking at expiring contracts. It’d be similar to Late inning relief guys. Like I’ve stated before I think Estrada/Watson would be a perfect matches. It’s also going to get interesting when Stewart is healthy and if he takes another step forward. I just don’t think it’s in the FO’s DNA to unload a major potion of their system, because as we know pitchers break.
The one thing I would say is I think Wood is a weapon in a potential playoffs series as he can be used as a Miller “lite”. But all in all this rotation could rival anyone if Hill sees health and Urias develops. In an optimistic another reality world you would like to be able to trade some of this excess for younger optionable pieces.
All very good points. And looking at the same teams for trade options, I do think Estrada and Watson are the second-best choices, you know, at least compared to who I mentioned. Whatever it as, we definitely need a really good bona fide reliever to back up Kenley in the playoffs. Last year was basically the same group of relievers and we saw quickly that the only reliever that could be trusted, again, was Kenley. A starting pitcher would be nice, preferably a good right handed option to complement the lefties. There’s Archer and Cobb in Tampa, and Gray in Oakland, heck Matt Shoemaker is pretty good down in Anaheim. We all know how much Friedman likes to deal with the 2 former organizations, especially since their FO’s are constructed the same way. Or maybe we could get Greinke back (haha).
I didn’t think about it before but Wood actually reminds me a lot of Miller and paired up with Stripling, they’d make a really good 1-2 punch as long relievers, or, begrudgingly (cause that would mean management didn’t make any moves), set up men. Anyways, good points! Maybe when all starters are healthy though, the six man rotation can be tried just every once in a while, to take away the strain of the arms. Doc has used it once or twice this season, and a few more times couldn’t hurt.
Archer is not going anywhere and even if he does the Dodgers no longer have the prospect package to land him especially with what they asked Houston for. Cobb is a decent mention, but I could argue Estrada is better than Cobb at this point and 100xs better than Shoe. Although the same could not be said on potential long term contracts. Estrada also provides a different look as a RH with the fb/ch mix. Beyond that he has a proven post season track record. Gray is still going to require a substantial package they aren’t selling low on him. You also have the arm injury question with Gray.
I think you’re truly short selling Estrada and Watson. And you’re also not taking into account teams willingness to actually part with said players. The graduations of Seager, Urias, and in the short term Bellinger leave the Dodgers sort of short of elite prospects required to make such deals for controllable big upside players.
If there all healthy do it! Maybe Kershaw only gets cpl xtra days off, how does it not benefit whole team in long run..? Want too keep Urias’s innings dwn cause ur gonna need em big time in play-offs, keep staff healthy n manipulate 10-Day DL n minors transactions…what Friedman was brought in for!
Mariners situation makes me wonder why more pitchstarved teams don’t switch to a eight-man four-day rotation? Four innings each for the two starters of the day. It must be less strain on their arms to go 50 pitches every 4th game rather than 100/5.
the rockies tried that a while back and it didn’t really work out – what may make more sense in the future is to have 2 or 3 long men and start limiting guys to 5 or 6 innings as they age, which I have heard mentioned.
It sounds doable, but a little too risky. If I were a manager, I’d try it for the heck of it, but our starters get hurt too much and it can’t be an experiment for a team looking to go deep into October. It’d had to be proven to work at the major league level.
.”The best of the bunch is Johnny Cueto, but the offseason opt-out clause in the right-hander’s contract takes away some of his appeal”
Riiiight. Because nobody in a pennant race would give up much for a frontline starter unless he was controllable.
Idiotic.