SATURDAY: In return for Cole, the Pirates have been pushing for infielder Gleyber Torres (MLB.com’s second-ranked prospect), per Jon Heyman of FanRag (Twitter link). Heyman doubts the Yankees would give up Torres, though, and he notes that it’s more likely a deal would include Frazier and at least one other piece. The two teams are continuing to negotiate.
THURSDAY: The Pirates and Yankees are discussing a trade that would send right-hander Gerrit Cole to the Bronx Bombers in exchange for a trade package that includes outfielder Clint Frazier, George A. King III of the New York Post reports. The Bucs are also reportedly looking for a young starting pitcher who is on the verge of being ready for the big leagues; righty Chance Adams may be the Yankees prospect that best fits this description, though there isn’t any indication the Pirates are specifically targeting Adams.
Cole has been linked to the Yankees in rumors throughout the Winter Meetings, though New York was (at least at one point) under the impression that Cole wasn’t being made available. Then again, Pittsburgh hasn’t given much indication all offseason if the team plans to start selling off pieces or if it still plans to contend in 2018. Cole, Andrew McCutchen, and Josh Harrison have drawn the most trade buzz this winter, with the consensus being that McCutchen is the likeliest to be dealt regardless of whether the Bucs are going for it or not. Since McCutchen is only under contract through 2018, adding a big league-ready young outfielder like Frazier would seem to fit right into the Bucs’ plans.
Trading McCutchen or Harrison would free up more money from the Pirates’ 2018 payroll, though dealing Cole would also be the bigger indicator that Pittsburgh will explore at least a soft rebuild. Cole is also set for a pretty healthy salary next season (projected by MLBTR to earn $7.5MM) in his second year of arbitration eligibility, though hardly a big sum for a team like the Yankees, their desire to get under the luxury tax threshold notwithstanding. There is no shortage of teams that would be interested in two years of control over a 27-year-old who has shown ace-like stuff in the past — the Twins, Rangers, and Orioles are a few other teams known to have checked in with the Pirates on Cole this offseason.
Cole posted a 4.26 ERA, 8.7 K/9 and 3.56 K/BB rate over 203 innings for Pittsburgh last season. It was the second time Cole has topped the 200-inning mark in his young career, as he bounced back nicely from an injury-shortened 2016 season. One worrisome number, however, was a big spike in home runs allowed, as Cole’s 1.4 HR/9 rate was more than double his 0.6 career mark prior to last season. He was hardly the only pitcher to run into trouble with the long ball in 2017, though it is a bit of a troubling statistic if Cole is moving from pitcher-friendly PNC Park to a hitters’ paradise like Yankee Stadium.
Frazier has already been part of one blockbuster deal in his young career, as he and Justus Sheffield were the headliners of the prospect package the Indians sent to the Yankees in the Andrew Miller trade in July 2016. The fifth overall pick of the 2013 draft, Frazier has long been touted as one of the game’s best prospects, ranked as high as 16th in the sport by the Baseball Prospectus top 100 list prior to the 2017 season.
For all of Frazier’s promise, however, he may be an expendable part in the Bronx. Giancarlo Stanton and Aaron Judge look to own the corner outfield slots for years to come, with Aaron Hicks, Brett Gardner, and Jacoby Ellsbury in center field and in reserve roles. (This doesn’t even account for other prospects like Estevan Florial, or the possibility that the Yankees could pursue another star outfielder like Bryce Harper in free agency.) New York’s farm system is more than deep enough to withstand the potential loss of Frazier or a pitcher like Adams for a young arm of Cole’s caliber, as he would slot right into a scary starting five that also includes Luis Severino, Masahiro Tanaka, Sonny Gray, and Jordan Montgomery.
If the trade happens, that rotation looks scary good
Scary good?! Really lol…
Let me get it right.
Severino – ace material last season, (also the only solid complete season of career so far)
Tanaka – (4+ era and looked like his arm was ready to fall off for 75% of the year
Sonny Gray – consistently pitching to a 3.50-4.00 era at best over the course of years now
Cole – 4+ era in the national
League, two sub par seasons in a row
I am not a Yankees fan (In fact I am the complete opposite) but that rotation would be very good
Severino
Cole
Gray
Tanaka
Montgomery
I’m sorry if I’m missing someone because again, not a Yankee fan, but regardless, that is an elite rotation
My friend that is good not elite
dellin betances
Sabathia
What?
It is pretty good
It wouldn’t be the best starting pitching in baseball, but along with the relief core they would have one of the top pitching staffs in baseball.
How is that elite? Because some have big names as in they were once elite
Considering the national league is the premier league and the American league is the junior circuit, even mediocre stats from the NL are better than “good” stats from the AL.
You know this is the opposite of true right? The AL is the “Junior Circuit” because it was created second. There’s no DH in the NL so pitchers stats include an almost guaranteed out once every 9 batters. The AL East has long been the toughest pitching environment in all of baseball.
This toughest in 2017 would go to the NL West
Look at batting stats for #9 both leagues. Very little difference.
Oh wow Mack guy. 1 whopping year!
Thank you.
Not now….what year do you think this is?
Cole is not good enough to deal Frazier for. Frazier could develop into a George Springer type talent. Adams is ordinary. His “stuff” does not profile any better than a #4 or 5 in Yankee Stadium and the AL East.
Frazier could be great, but where are you going to play him ? Better for him and NYY to address ‘18 needs
If it was a straight swap of Frazier/Cole, it would be a slight overpay, in that Frazier is a highly coveted, young, cheap and controllable outfielder with speed who can hit for average and power, but is still an unproven prospect.
Cole is a proven #2 starter, with ace potential.
But Frazier AND Adams? That’s TWO of the Yankees top 5 prospects, both major league ready. I think that would be a steal for the Pirates.
If the Yankees only had a 2-3 year window I think it would make more sense, but they seem to be building for a sustained run. I think they’d probably be better off putting Adams in the rotation and trading Gardner to make room for Frazier in center (either mid season or when Gardner leaves next off season).
yeah i if it was cole/frazier straight up the pirates would be overpaying like crazy.
Frazier is young, cheap and controllable sure, but not only is he unproven there are some big question marks. In AAA hes .248/.323/.446/.769 in 449 plate appearances and then continued to throw up stinkers in the MLB at .231/.268/.448/.715 in 142 PAs.
Sure way too early to call him a bust but his value is no where near a mid rotation starter with two years of control… at least until Clint figures out how to hit.
Yeah also Cole’s value is a bit lower due to his HR totals, but that is probably a fluke. Realistically the yankees wouldn’t have gotten this far if they thought it wasn’t a fluke as well.
Think more like a Sonny Grey type deal.. only that the pirates are less motivated to trade.
Two top 100′ prospects + some change is what it is going to take. As a pirate fan, I hope one of those top 100s is not Frazier.
That sounds good, to slot Adams in the rotation and trade Gardner to clear space for Frazier to play. But you know once they made that Stanton trade they are not doing that. They are looking bigger. As a Yankee fan I don’t agree with it, because I’m not a fan of the Stanton acquisition either, but the yanks always have to go all in. And they will just continue to replace bad contracts with more of them.
Gardner has a team option for 2019 which will probably picked up if he isn’t traded, the guy I would trade unless it’s ellsbury would be hicks. He is nothing more than a platoon player
You can keep cole
Thank you. Finally somebody who stated the truth
No. They won’t just replace bad contracts with others. Why do so many people have the wrong perception of the Stanton deal? It was pure genius. They gave up basically nothing. It’s basically guaranteed that he will opt out after 2020. No reason to think otherwise.
If you run out a pitcher every day that pitches to a 4 ERA with that bullpen and offense, yes, they are scary good.
Cole’s 2016 I don’t put a ton of stock in because there were a lot of reports he pitched through a bad shoulder most of the year. 2017 He was definitely not as good as his 2015 but he did have a career high strike out rate. He needs to work on keeping the ball in the yard. I suspect pitching in Yankee stadium won’t help that much.
> (also the only solid complete season of career so far)
Also the only complete season of his career.
Who are you kidding that’s not a good rotation that’s a fair rotation
Maybe not scary good, but very good non the less. Era in the 4.00 and above isn’t necessarily bad. Sometimes it bad luck. Cole still threw over 200 innings and had 196 strikeouts. That homerun spike is worrisome, but still a very good pitcher. Gray was good last year too and looked like his old self. Despite a bad opening day and a may, tanaka was still good. Pitched 175 innings with 196 strikeouts. Again homeruns are worrisome but was very good otherwise. You know about severino. To me, that would be good pitching, especially if the Yankees do acquire cole
If by “consistently pitching to a 3.50-4.00 era at best over the course of years now”, you mean 1 1/2 years, then sure.
Frazier, Adams/Sheffield, Andujar.
Done.
They would need to throw in Harrison if they wanted 2 elite prospects and one potential elite
Harrison isn’t worth it, in 2016 they were trying to dump his salary.
2016: .283/.311/.388 WAR: 1.8
2017: .272/.339/.432 WAR: 3.3
He’s definitely not worth a top prospect.
I’ve seen you post on several “yankees and Gerrit cole” threads threads that Harrison isn’t worth anything and the Pirates were trying to give him away last year. Neither is true, at all.
This site literally had an article last year talking about how the Pirates were trying to dump his salary. Harrison improved his stock but to say he’s worth a top prospect is silly and ignorant. Also I never said he’s not worth anything, just that his value is far lower than a top prospect.
*about how
Trade him to the Mets they want him.
Idk what your definition of elite is but I can only count 1 in that trade.
Elite = ANY yankee prospect
Cole isn’t worth all those guys, Harrison doesn’t sweeten the pot at all
I think he would certainly be a useful player for the Yankees. He plays good defense at 2nd and 3rd. He is a solid hitter.. In Yankee stadium I think he could put up 15-20 homers consistently.
Highly doubt Harrison would put up that many homers. Maybe 12-15 at the most.
Done.
Entirely too much for Cole, two arb years or not. Frazier + a fringe prospect or two gets almost any other starter. Think more like Frazier + MAYBE Domingo Acevedo. No way two of those three you listed get moved in the same trade, Andujar is set to take over third right now with Torres at 2b.
Frazier + maybe Domingo Acevedo or another B-grade starter + maybe a fringe prospect. If the Pirates ask for Frazier + Adams/Sheffield + Andujar for Cole, they can take Ellsbury’s contract too. You could easily trade Frazier anywhere else and get a similar controllable starter for him straight up.
Exactly.
could not agree more. Frazier is too good. Or at least good. We need more than Cole if we’re giving more than Frazier. Cole just came off a not so good season I might add.
Steamer600, which assumes 600 plate appearances for each hitter, project Clint Frazier with a 2018 WAR of 0.4:
http://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&type=steamer600&team=9&lg=all&players=
Steamer600, which assumes 200 innings for each starting pitcher, projects Gerrit Cole (who posted 3.1 fWAR in 203 innings this year) with a 2018 WAR of 3.2:
http://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&type=steamer600&team=27&lg=all&players=0&sort=19,d
You do realize that these projections don’t matter right? Cole is a #2-3 starter with 2 years of control. Frazier is a top prospect who isn’t even arbitration eligible. Bryce Harper is projected to have more WAR next year than Carlos Correa, which one do you think will cost more to acquire? (Obviously neither is getting traded). If Cole had 3-4 years of control but he only has 2 years left.
You yankee fans are so deluded. Your not getting a ace on a down year for less than two elite prospect especially with 2 arb years. Darvish fetched one elite for half a season. On top of it all the yankees farm is vastly overated and most never pan out. Id look for another team if i was the pirates.
he might be an ace in a pirates rotation but not in a Yankee rotation. He’s not that goods. He’s a 3-4 starter. Stop getting emotional about it by saying we’re just Yankee fans. They are facts. Clint Frazier and a combination of any of our top prospects should not be traded away for a SP that can’t go under a 3.00 ERA. Has a spike in HR’s (Especially in the AL and even worst the AL East). He was just injured last season. Now his full season back he has a 4.00 + ERA. Even the writer if this column pointed that out. Cole is not that good.
The Yankees got Sonny Gray for 2.5 years and only gave up 1 Top 100 prospect , and that Top 100 prospect was and is still injured.
Vastly overrated? Judge , Sanchez , Severino and others have done just fine for the Yanks. Pretty funny for a Dodger fan to say this by the way. As if your team hasn’t had overrated prospects either?
You guys are throwing out the word elite like it’s nothing. Willie Calhoun isn’t an elite prospect. Neither is Chance Adams or Justus Sheffield. They’re top 100 prospects but I wouldn’t consider them to be elite. Elite prospects Ahmed Rosario, Acuna, vlad jr etc. Even calling Frazier elite is up for debate. Not those guys.
East coast bias. How many rookie of the years has the dodgers had? Yankees cant develop there own talent so they poach other teams best players for there overrated prospects. New yorks a huge market so mlb cant afford to not rake in on the market revenue by having yankees be bad. The jury is still out on judge and sanchez. There second half and playoffs were pretty awful to be honest.
Judge got Player of the Month in September and despite all the strikeouts in the playoffs , he still put up a 113 wRC+
Also, I wouldn’t talk about another team choking in the playoffs. Dodgers are still titleless since 1988. 17 teams have won the WS since they last won.
LOL…. How many rookie of the years have the Dodgers had? You rhetorically, and sarcastically, (oh and completely idiotically) asked while ignoring who the reigning AL Rookie of the Year is. 2nd in the MVP voting. A player who inarguably had one of the greatest seasons by a rookie ever. Period. I guess it sucks for me that the Yankees didn’t draft him though. Oh wait. They did. How many World Series have the Dodgers won in the last 25 years? Oh wait. 0. How many have the Yankees won? Who are the supposed “Core-4” and who drafted them?
What an asinine post. Seriously.
in what world is cole an ace? His ERA+ has been average every year except his rookie year and his FIP has been trending down every year since hes been in the league and he gave up the most homeruns(31) in his career this year. He also puts on way too many runners for a guy who is supposed to be a front end starter.
At the time of the trade, Frazier was a top 50 and Fowler #89 on Baseball America’s mid-season top 100 list. In addition, Kapriekian and Mateo each appeared on top 100 lists in 2016 but slid down due to injuries and a sub-par 1st half. It was only 1 year ago when Mateo was considered our best prospect. If it weren’t for the fact that Kap and Fowler were traded while already on the DL did it NOT feel as great a package as it was.
That being said, Cole is a top 30 pitcher in the majors by WAR (would’ve ranked behind Severino only on the Yanks,
As a Yanks fan I would feel comfortable giving up Frazier and Adams. Any other prospect among our top 15 would require a low level prospect back from Pittsburgh imo.
Also, let’s not be so dependent on a top 100 list. It’s best used as an easy guide, but most teams, including the Yanks current farm, have tons of guys that make you wonder why they weren’t on a top 100 list. Nick Solak, Domingo German, Thairo Estrada and Miguel Andujar are examples of promising prospects that haven’t been featured prominently on any top 100 list yet. So Bucks fans shouldn’t turn their nose at them either.
Not all of us are deluded, just the ones who end up commenting here or another all-MLB focused site instead of the better NY-specific sites., although I posit that he Dodgers’ farm was nothing in comparison to NY’s at the time you traded for Darvish, and maybe your team wasted talent and didn’t get enough in return for it.
The Yankees landed an arbitration-eligible ace for two broken prospects and a busted one at the trade deadline this year. Yu got whirling Darvish for a couple months and managed a good record while playing in a talent-hungry league.
this is really ironic coming from a dodgers fan. The team that spends the most, but can’t get anywhere.
Is Cole an ace or is he a pitcher that’s only had 1 year with more than 22 starts and an ERA under 4.2?
The Yankees don’t need Cole. They could easily sign CC and rely on several guys, including Adams, waiting in AAA as their 6th starter.
Its easy when you buy the best players, I believe the dodgers have had 7/8? Homegrown talent, most of there roster is atleast cant say the same for the yankees. Stanton further proves that point. Its bad for baseball because how does a team like the padres payroll or tampa bay rays able to compete? Have no fear just go buy the best players and hope for the best, the yankees and the fans who support them are the absolute worst.
Severino, Gardner, Judge, Montgomery, Chad Green, Sanchez, Bird, Torres & Andujar (the most likely candidates to be the starting 2B and 3B) have all gone through the Yankees farm system. So i dont see where the “no homegrown talent” argument is coming from. Lol and a Dodgers fan is complaining that small market teams cant compete and yet the Dodgers spend the most money, they buy the most players and you cant tell me they dont.
Also, Judge had a rough month and a half and bounced back in the second half and Sanchez had a killer August. Judge had a bad ALDS but a good ALCS and WC. Sanchez had a decent post-season. You must have watched baseball last year with your eyes closed. Typical of a bandwagon Dodger fan to not know a single clue about what he spouts.
Oh yeah? They just got the NL MVP for nothing.
Who has actually seen Justus Sheffield pitch? I have several times in the Eastern League. Strong little lefty with #2 or #3 potential. And remember, lefties are always more valuable pitching in Yankee Stadium . Adams? Disposable. Sheffield? Keeper.
You collect those rookie of the year awards. We’ll continue to collect championships.
LA is west coast New York for Christ sake.
He’s a 2 or 3 not a 4 tho
He didn’t make it to the World Series
The irony of a Dodger fans saying the Yankees buy players, have bad fans, and have a high payroll and that it’s bad for baseball
BooHoo. The Yankee haters should stop whining and concentrate On their own teams
Willie Calhoun is not elite, he wouldn’t even be in yankees top 10 prospects
This is so hypocritical coming from a fan of a team with a $250mil payroll.. the only player on yankees roster they “bought” is ellsbury.. every other position is either home grown or traded for with prospects.. if a team sells low on a player (Chapman, Stanton) and Yankees make a trade to bring a player Bc they take their trade you can’t hate them for making smart deals while other team is too stupid
Wait, wait… is this a Dodgers fan complaining about the Yankees’ payroll? LOL. One, your team is higher. Two, before Stanton the Yankees’ 3 best hitters all are making minimum wage and so is their Ace!
Gardner, Robertson, Betances, Romine, Warren, Bird, Andujar, Sanchez, Judge, Severino and Montgomery are all from the Yankees’ system. That’s 11 players.
Stanton, Hicks, Torreyes Kahnle, Torres, Didi and Gray are all products of trades from the Yankees’ farm system.(Torres being traded for Chapman pre FA contract, who was traded for Yankees’ prospects)
That’s 18 players with direct ties to the Yankees’ farm system, It’s very likely two more relievers will be from there as well..
Ellsbury (4th OF), Tanaka, Chapman are the only big money contracts I can think of on the team at the present where they were acquired as free agents,
…and Frazier would only be Pittsburgh’s 4th OF right now if not in AAA. And Adams will never be an ace. So your point is…
3-4 starter? That’s just silly.
holy crap dude, you must be ignorant as hell. the dodgers don’t have the highest payroll in baseball because of “homegrown talent” especially when the majority of their homegrown players are on original contracts. agon and Austin Barnes were drafted by the Marlins. Chris Taylor, Justin Turner, Alex wood, McCarthy, Kazmir, Enrique Hernandez, Grandal, Brandon Morrow, Utley, Logan Forsythe. nevermind past guys like Crawford and greinke… yeah, homegrown… buddy ok that’s a joke right. hopes that “homegrown” joc pederson, guy can’t hit worth a damn. you point out judges struggles in the second half, didn’t pederson get sent down, and bellinger struggled every other month. you’re just pissed the Yankees stepped up and took Stanton’s contract when all you naive dodgers fans thought Miami was gonna cave and trade him to la for 0 prospects while eating 80-90% of his contract. and this is from a Marlins fan.
holy crap dude, you must be ignorant as hell. the dodgers don’t have the highest payroll in baseball because of “homegrown talent” especially when the majority of their homegrown players are on original contracts. agon and Austin Barnes were drafted by the Marlins. Chris Taylor, Justin Turner, Alex wood, McCarthy, Kazmir, Enrique Hernandez, Grandal, Brandon Morrow, Utley, Logan Forsythe. nevermind past guys like Crawford and greinke… yeah, homegrown… buddy ok that’s a joke right. hows that “homegrown” joc pederson, guy can’t hit worth a damn. you point out judges struggles in the second half, didn’t pederson get sent down, and bellinger struggled every other month. you’re just pissed the Yankees stepped up and took Stanton’s contract when all you naive dodgers fans thought Miami was gonna cave and trade him to la for 0 prospects while eating 80-90% of his contract. and this is from a Marlins fan.
Yankees didn’t give Stanton that contract, the Marlins did.
Nobody is saying Cole is an ace. However the Yankees would have 6 very good starters and will be the favorites in 2018. Your Dodgers now that is a story of failure for 30 years.
Imindless….you don’t know much about Yankee baseball. I guess you post because you know Yankees will kick the Dodgers ass in 2018.
Darren Dreifort, Edwin Jackson, Andre Ethier, Joc Pederson, James Loney… really lived up to the hype huh? Don’t be bitter that the Astros are the best team in Baseball.
Joc Pederson, Urias!
If you think cole is just a 3-4 starter, you might not be a “Yankees fan” but you are stupid.
Not much poaching in last 20 years. Quality home grown talent that played for the team or was traded for quality players. Some home grown talent from last two decades – Jeter, Mo, Pettitte, Posada, Soriano, Cano, Gardner, Judge, Sanchez, Severino, Bird, Betances, Robertson, Warren, Kahnle all came through Yankees minors. Acquired by trading homegrown talent – Granderson, Swisher, Didi, A-Rod
The Yankees paid over 50 million in tax last year that went to smaller market teams. You can’t buy anything anymore. You’re ignorant if you think so. Players become FA far later now and all the incentives are for growing your own talent. Stanton was an anomaly because the marlins are doing s fire sale. And more importantly he will be opting out after 2020. The Yankees were able to take his salary because they’ve been financially responsible finally and have been purging their bad contracts slowly. It’s been proven over and over that spending the most gets you nowhere. Hence the Dodgers finally competing after hiring the Rays GM and most of their money committed to players who don’t even play for them. Please educate yourself. The Yankees are going to spend the least this year in payroll than they have in a decade but they’re buying players LOL. Idiotic.
Uh, nobody is trading their 1st 2nd or 3rd starter with 3+ years of control in a 1 for 1 deal with clint frazier……
Frazier and 2 fringe prospects doesnt get them a front line starter with 3+ years of control. Itll get them a 2 with 1 year left or a 3 with 2 years left. Certainly not an ace with 1 year nor a 2 with 2 or more years.
im assuming fringe means outside top 30
Cole has 2 years. Not 3. And he may be the Pirates ace but it doesn’t mean he’d be the Yankees ace. He would probably be their #3
@bringintherelief….I agree with you, .If I am the Pirates Gerrit Cole will cost you Clint Frazier and one other top level prospect……no way the Pirates trade a proven MLB pitcher for a guy, Frazier, who has less than 150 major league at bats, no matter how impressive his short mlb stay was…..but I think that Gerrit Cole team control is only two years but the same concept applies in my opinion
Frazier hit .234 with 4 hr at the major league level, how is that impressive?
Cole has two years of control left, not three. He’s a free agent after 2019, and just posted an ERA north of 4 in the NL Cental, in a pitcher’s park. Inflate that for the AL East and Yankee Stadium specifically and he probably adds a full point and gives up over 40 homers.
Just because he’s an ace on the Pirates doesn’t mean he’s an ace in baseball. He’d be #1 on a handful of teams, but he’s #3 everywhere else. The Yankees are not trading two elite prospects and one who is borderline elite for a #3 starter. They could trade Frazier, Adams/Sheffield + Andujar for virtually any proven ace, and all four gets you pretty damn close to Bumgarner tbh.
cole is at worst a #2 pitcher.
2 years of a #2 costs more than just frazier and fringe stuff.
Frazier and 1 of Adams or Sheffield
or
Frazier and two lesser pitchers like acevedo and perez plus maybe a 15-20 guy
that’s about what cole is worth.
my op pointed out that nobody is lining up to trade front line starters with 2 or more years of control for frazier and scraps. maybe if he had 1 year left or was a 3 with 2 years then possibly.
Judge sucked when he was brought up in 2016, do you think he sucks too?
as a rookie with all the peripherals? Have you seen the guys the Yankees have brought to MLB from their farm system recently?
Agreed…I love these prospects…not for cole
So you’re saying you wouldn’t deal Miller for Cole…
Have fun watching Frazier play left bench
Nope
Right…
Why stop there? Torres should go too! And Florial! And why not deal Judge while we’re at it… /s
Idk that’s steep for a guy who’s been unpredictable at times… wouldn’t mind it if he shows the promise he was hyped up to
And what has Frazier done?
Hit at every level. He showed he can rake at the MLB level and never got a fair shot with the Yankees, at least not so far. Frazier + Adams/Sheffield + Andujar is way too much for Cole. At that point you call up Brian Sabean and ask him how much more he’d want for Bumgarner.
Those are the kinds of prospects you’re talking about here. Frazier + Adams/Sheffield + Andujar gets you pretty close to Bumgarner, and I wouldn’t mind including all four if it got him, but those three are a massive overpay for Cole.
Thank you!!!!
you understand Cole is an MLB all star and a 19 game winner only 3 seasons ago right? Sheffield or Adams and Frazier should be the deal. not andujar
Only 3 seasons ago? As if 3 season ago is a short amount of time. Since then he’s show he’s been injury prone andd that since then he’s given up alot of home runs.
he gave up a ton last year yea. the year before he was at 7 in 21 starts. you know who was garbage in 2016. severino. looked how that turned out.
yeah but severino went bad to good. Good and injured to Bad
Frazier has not hit at every level… he has never hit above .300 at any point during his pro career. He has a career slugging % of .452 in the minors which is good, but not something where I would say that he hit at every level
Frazier has not shown he can hit for crap lol
He had a .231 avg for the mlb club last season
And his minor league stats are mediocre at best
And Rick Porcello was a 22 game winner and Cy Young winner just 1 season ago.
@Allrise…..no disrespect, but everyone who makes it into MLB has already “hit at every level” and that is why they made it to MLB, but that really never proves anything until you STICK in MLB, and Clint Frazier has had LESS than 150 major league at bats…….no way any team would trade a 200 inning front end starter like Gerrit Cole one for one for Clint Frazier, in my opinion…..
Frazier hit .263 in 2016 minor leagues
Hit .256 in 2017 in aaa
And .231 in 2017 mlb
I guess it all depends on what you consider “hitting”
ThePriceWasRight. Yeah, Severino did turn it around. But would you trade 3 of your team’s top prospects for the player he was 12 months ago? Because that’s Gerrit Cole right now. At least, potentially. It’s just not worth it, there are more reliable and smarter options available for that sort of package.
Regardless of how these prospects turn out, prospects have an established value, and it’s not small. We should be making a smart value trade, (IF WE SHOULD EVEN BE MAKING A TRADE AT ALL)… Gerrit Cole for a package of 3 of our best prospects is just an overpay. No way of arguing that really. If he has a Cy Young quality season next year, and re-establishes himself. Then it’s fair value, or maybe it’s an underpay then. But there is no such thing as “potential value” for established MLB players like there is for prospects. You are your last season in the Majors. You don’t get paid in trade value for a player’s “potential” to rebound. You get paid if they in fact rebound.
At midseason KATOH projected Clint Frazier with a six-year WAR of 8.0 to rank 35th of its list of prospects:
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/katohs-midseason-2017-top-100-lists/
Streamer projects Gerrit Cole with a 2018 WAR of 3.8 after the right-hander posted a WAR of 3.1 this year in his “down” season:
https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13125&position=P
all stars and wins? and from 3 years ago….i dont know if you can point out any two more meaningless stats for a pitcher.
Bumgarner? The guy who missed half of 2017, is a complete tool and a free agent after 2018?
Frazier has widely been considered a top 60 prospect for a while, way before he was traded to the Yankees. That being said, he will never be a high batting average player. But most prospect forecasting has to do with projection and he has the ability to be a solid .275/.340/.450 guy with 25-30 hr power and good defense in the OF.
Aaron Judge hit .176/.263/.345 during his debut in 2016. You really can’t judge a rookie by there first 150 AB.
Really? We’re analyzing Frazier’s BA now? Try watching him play at least once before chiming in or you’ll embarrass yourself. He has elite bat speed and the athleticism to be a stud. 1 for 1 trade is not enough for Cole, nobody is saying that. I’d throw in a lower level prospect but not Adams or Sheffield.
Yes! Exactly! That package is crazy. But a lot of people here seem to think the Yankees should give up the whole farm just cause
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. I wouldn’t call a .715ops killing it.
I don’t see a an 82 wRC+ and a .298 wOBA as raking at the MLB level. Now you can say he played well before he got hurt but if we are cherry picking sample sizes then I would say look at Cole’s 2015. He can certainly pitch like a #1 starter. His home runs spiked but I don’t think that will stay the case. I think Cole is a legitimate MLB #2 starter.
no. my argument is trade Cole for 3. it’s that Frazier and Adams or Frazier and Sheffield is likely a strong enough package.
ok in a down year he was just shy of 200ks, has had 200 is before.
and Frazier has done what exactly? wait I can’t even throw out a star for him.
Madison Bumgarner’s club holds a 2019 option for only $12 million on the 28-year-old left-hander who has already posted 29.4 fWAR.
Frazier has not exactly torn it up at every level in the minors, nor has he “raked” at the MLB level. I think he CAN, and likely WILL, but he has not shown that yet.
He has six years of control. What has Austin Meadows done? That’s the better question unless the long game is giving up Cole for free
You can say that about the majority of prospects. Although we live in a world of analytics, mlb is loaded with players whose major league numbers were much, much better than what they posted in terms of their slash line, and in some cases, their hitting approved and power surfaced once they were around big leaguers and pitchers who had better control of the strike zone.
MadBum has two years of control at 24 million (club option for 19). Plenty of tools in baseball, but is better in Yankee Stadium than Cole? If you’re going to give that package of prospects, I’d pick a proven Ace with postseason success and is a power lefty.
And you wouldn’t even get the giants on the phone if you didn’t offer Torres in any package.
Cole’s HR spike worries me. Have a bad feeling he’d have a 5+ ERA. Could be basically Javy Vazquez all over again.
lol your comparing Cole to Porcello? Let’s be serious now. Everyone knows that Porcello’s Cy Young season was an anomaly. Cole is a much better pitcher.
No but my point was that anything can happen in just 1 year. I agree Cole is better. But you shouldn’t bring up how good a season one had Three seasons ago to prove how good a player is.
Obviously it was a Down year for Cole , but past success doesn’t mean good things will happen again.
Especially moving to a hitter friendly park. It would make it harder for him to lower the HR/9 rate pitching in Yankee Stadium rather than PNC Park, a pitchers park.
That’s debatable. I get the aura of the AL east but let’s look at the division. take the Yankees out if he’s on them. the red Sox hit little HR last year and while that should improve, it’s one team. the rays may rebuild so if you lose Morrison and trade longoria their goes power. machado could be dealt, the jays no longer have Edwin or Bautista and likely see regression from smoak.
I would like to keep Adams. I think he’s not as close as Sheffield and Sheffield is not homegrown talent. Adams has scrapped and defied all the odds. Keep him in the minors and see if he can succeed at AAA.
He succeeded in AAA all year. Do your homework
Wait hitting .256 in aaa is success now?
Who cares if Sheffield isn’t homegrown talent?
Yankee fans have always taken pride in winning only with homegrown talent.
Idiot
He’s already succeeded, time to give him a shot, let’s keep our prospects sign Sabathia,bring up Adams and see where Yanks are at the trade deadline.Also what is Yanks infatuation with hicks,he’s nothing more than a platoon player. Trade hicks and Ellsbury and rotate Frazier,Gardner,Stanton and judge
oh just trade ellsbury. wonder why they haven’t thought of that yet.
Because he has a full no trade clause and a terrible contract? Are you being serious?
If you can’t understand the sarcasm in song know how to help you.
Hicks is good. When he was playing he was good. He had a high batting average, high than judge at the time. He can rake. we just need to clear space so he can play every day.
Yeah yeah give them the ring they need it like I need a hole in my head. Baseball is gonna become like the nba in a few years. Yankees Dodgers World Series for the next 3-4 years
Houston just won the world series
I said the NEXT 3-4 years, not last year.
I’ve been seeing comments similar to this quite frequently as of late, and while I do understand the impulse, this is almost measurably false. The World Series has been played and won by a multitude of different teams from different locations over the last 5-10 seasons. Particularly, citing the Yankees as a recent super team is just ironically odd. This argument would have made much more sense in any time but the last 5 or so seasons, which has seen the Yankees fail to make at least the ALDS in 3/5 years, along with no World Series rings or appearances. The Dodgers too, is a weird choice. Outside of 2017, they haven’t exactly been playoff superstars either. They both spend money, they both have marquee players, which gives them better overall opportunities in theory. But, as history has shown, those opportunities only guarantee so much. The NBA, this is not.
Again the NEXT 3-4 years. Dodgers are already the cream of the crop in the Nl and now the Yankees are in the AL.
The MLB is not as locked down as the NBA in terms of how many teams have a legitimate shot at winning the World Series. A Yankees-Dodgers WS wouldnt prove your point either unless it happens like 3 times in a row.
no other major sport can touch the hype/happenings of the winter meetings. no sport is even close.
nfl draft day > mlb winter meetings by a landslide in terms of attention it gets and coverage
Yes true but that is a different type of event to me. You can’t really televise the Winter Meetings like you can the NFL draft.
The competitiveness in MLB far far far exceeds the competitiveness in the NBA
The rich getting richer
Since I’m a Pirates fan I want Frazier and Andujar in the deal. We got enough pitching here.
You are not getting Andujar, who is slated to slot in as the starting third baseman unless the Yankees make a corresponding move to acquire one. You can take Ellsbury’s contract back if you want Frazier and Andujar.
Ellsbury would need to approve.
face it you’re stuck with him
Then your not getting cole.
Except that you don’t get to decide that.
Here’s that Yankees fan that throws Ellsbury into every trade everyone! Hoo weee we got a smarty pants here!
Not really, but if you want two of our best prospects you can have our albatross, too.
Well like he said above Jacoby has to approve all trades and I am pretty sure I read he isn’t willing to approve one. That being said last time the Pirates too the Yankees “albatross” it worked out for us pretty well.
I’m a Pirate fan too, and I’d just take Andrujar, and a mid level prospect or two. That would really help put a solid answer at 3B, since Kang’s chances of coming back are slim still.
That would also be selling low on Cole which is something the small market Pirates can’t do.
I’d be happy with just Andrujar, but I think they can get Adams too.
nooo don’t do this! trade for Fulmer instead, even if it costs alot more
There was a report yesterday from one of the Tiger’s beat writers (please excuse me for not remembering his name) that they absolutely won’t trade Fulmer. Take it with a grain of salt but it does seem that it would take more than a king’s ransom to get him.
I’d rather not deal Red Thunder for Cole. Adams I can live with I don’t see future stardom from him, maybe the Yankees can work in some different pieces? I’d be ok with Adams, Betances, McKinney, and Wade if that somehow worked for the Pirates.
How many OF do the Yankees need? I know ellsbury and Gardner are older and judge doesn’t move like a cheetah but 6 of is probably pushing it.
It’s not about need, it’s about the Yankees not HAVING to trade Frazier for Cole. I don’t think Cole is going to be that great in the AL East. Forget Cole if you’re trading Frazier, Frazier and more gets you Fulmer.
And your reasoning for Cole being bad is???
Everyone’s stated reason on this thread. Just scroll up. or read what the writer of this column said about his last three seasons
Stanton and Judge should be counted as 1/2 an outfielder each. Both those big bodies need plenty of Dh time. Neither of them are good bets in the Stadiums big left field. Gardner is in his last year, and Ellsbury doesn’t belong on the team and certainly should not be starting. They are going to need another starting caliber outfielder as soon as next year.
yeah. If only they had money to go after one.
When all else fails, use that money line and you don’t have to give any actual intelligent opinion.
Gardner has an option for 2019 which I’m positive Yanks would pick up. Don’t know Yanks infatuation with hicks,he’s only a p/t player. I would trade Ellsbury and hicks. If Yanks eat everything but 8 million a year, would t a team take him. There are plenty of players making more than 8 million with the same numbers as Ellsbury. So now you keep Frazier who came up as center fielder and you rotat Frazier ,Gardner,Stanton and judge. Give Adams a shot he has nothing left to prove in triple A,sign C.C. ,and a stop gap third baseman,hopefully Andujar can get integrated into the lineup sometime mid season or sooner and see where they are at the trade deadline……sorry for the rant
funny because theybdont need an of this year and picked up one. So imagine if only they actually needed one. sorry but when your team flaunts it’s financial muscle, spending money is easy for them is a suitable response.
No option on Gardner, this is his last year and he’s free as a bird after this season. He certainly might come back if the team makes him a good offer but would have to think it would be as a semi regular player this is probably his last year as a full time starter. Agree with everything else you said, someone will take Ellsbury if we pay his contract down to a point he actually provides VALUE. Personally I think his value is in the 6/8 million per year range. He could be plugged into plenty of teams as a CF and leadoff hitter. Of course he will get hurt and miss 50 games but that’s why we would be paying off so much of his ridiculous contract.
Yankees did just get a gift from their former captain and have to pay 350 mil to get Stanton. But they don’t spend!!!
I really don’t want this trade to happen I don’t trust Cole’s 31 HR’s in YS3
If they do it I hope Cessa is that main pitcher going back with Frazier.
I know he’s not a top prospect but he’s ready.
I do not want to give up Adams/Sheffield or even German
Final offer
Frazier/Cessa/McKinney
I agree with you.
But then I have to keep reminding myself, as much as all these prospects have promise – there’s no room for them on the team. I still believe Frazier could be LFer in ‘19 to replace Gardner. But that’s not a good outlook for his ‘18 unless 2 long-term injuries hit their OF.
Cole is not the pitcher the Yankees need. They should just see what Chance Adams can do as it is the smart prudent move. Sign CC to a one or two year package of 10 mill or so a year. Give themselves depth without forcing it. Demote Ellsburry to AAA in the hopes he doesn’t want to go and refuses the assignment. Keep Andujar at third this season and see what he does for you if nothing can always sign Machado next year. Play Torres at 2ndbase and things should be fine a great quality young team with a future.
What is the point of demoting him to force him to refuse the assignment? Nothing good comes of it. He’s still on the team and you still have to pay him. You just make the younger players mistrust the front office by showing up a veteran.
Because Ells has 5 yrs. MLB service time the NYY can not send him to AAA without his consent. If they try and he refuses the assignment he gets the 68.5 MM and it all counts against the NYY’s Lux Tax. The reason the Red Sox could option Craig and Castillo off of the 40 man roster and not have their $$$ count towards the Lux Tax was that neither had 5 yrs. MLB service time. If a player with less than 5 yrs. refuses the assignment the player gets no $$$ and the team is relieved of all contract obligations.
Idk why the Pirates want another pitcher near the big leagues, we have enough depth there. I’d rather go with Frazier, Andujar, and a lower level pitching lottery ticket.
Is there any reason the Yankees don’t just go and sign Cobb? They can probably figure out a way to sign Cobb and CC if they truly want 6 starters for 5 spots. The team probably would have to go without a safety net for young players at 3rd and 2nd but resetting the luxury tax blah blah blah.
Best part: Frazier wouldn’t be forced to get the hair cut again.
cole that good?
Really depends. Are you going to see the Cole that showed up between 2013-2015, or 2017 Cole, where he gave up 31 home runs?
Yankes’ OF is an embarrassment of riches after the Stanton trade. Big fan of Frazier but somebody’s gotta go…. He will surely be missed. He was their 5th OF because of contract. (See: Ellsbury who iis owed $21M annually for the next 3 years as their 4th OF)
Frazier’s 10+ years years younger than Ellsbury, and essentially their biggest trade chip they could be open to dealing because of Stanton trade.
I mean, just have Frazier start the season in AAA if Ellsbury cant be moves. He needed to work on a lot anyway. Im not sure if hes really big league ready yet.
Maybe I’m prospect hugging, but I feel like we will regret trading Frazier and Adams for Cole. Frazier has elite level bat speed and Cole seems like a pitcher that would struggle in Yankee Stadium.
I don’t want to trade Clint at all to be honest. I like cole but I’d rather just hold on to Clint and start Adams over cole
I’m a Yankee fan and I have to say that I don’t like the thought of trading Frazier. I think they should sell high on Florial instead. Florial has some success in A ball, albeit with a 31% K rate. He’s a long way from the majors and has a lot of development to go before reaching the Majors. Have Frazier play CF in AAA for a while. Plug him in the lineup this year when there’s the inevitable injury, and have him on hand to take Gardner’s roster spot next year if they don’t land Harper.
I blame this all on Ellsbury.
Blame the Yankees they handed him that contract after that steroid fueled last season in Boston,going to Dr ortiz
Florial is said to have a much higher ceiling than Frazier. Power, speed, defense and arm. On top of that he plays a premium position, so his value is high.
Yankees and Angels are making moves. Cubs, Rockies, Cardinals and Mariners are all definitely upgrading this offseason as well. While my Dodgers sit idle. In my eyes you either get worse or your get better but you can’t stay the same so my Dodgers need to make some moves. MKes some trades, we got guys we can move like Joc and Grandal and some minor leaguers. Anyways..good job this offseason so far Yankees and I’m sure you’re not done yet. Congrats Yankees fans I’m sure you’re gonna have a good season so should be fun for you guys especially with Judge and Stanton hitting back to back. That’s gonna be crazy to watch lol
im available
Lol
@ron cey…..excellent, now grab a broom and get to work……
Yankees are making a mistake if they trade Clint Frazier.
@snowjev……Frazier is hopelessly blocked for at least a yr or two and will not see any significant playing time while in a Yankees uniform…….he seems like an excellent PROSPECT(139 total career mlb at bats) but right now he can either wait for the Yankees to suffer a RASH of OF injuries or hope that he can be traded to a place to play everyday….
The interest makes sense. the Yankees originally drafted Cole our of HS.
Please cashman don’t trade Clint 🙁
Please Cashman don’t trade for 2years of Cole.
That’s what concerns me the most. Frazier’s 23 and made his MLB debut…. gotta’ give something, to get something.
Cole has made a major league all star team. Frazier has made a major league lineup.
take off the blinders.
Not sure if you realize this Yankee fans (like me), but Clint Frazier used to play 3rd base and CF. The 2 positions we need. Trade Gardner and his salary. Trade Betances. Do not trade Clint Frazier!
No one wants ellsberry or gardner. Frazier/adams/andujar.
I like Frazier but I feel like he could easily be a Travis Snider type player who might frustrate you. The Yanks do have a history of helping hitters improve at the mlb level.
In my opinion, don’t send Frazier to Pirates, send him to the Orioles with Beltances, Adam Warren and Miguel Andjuar for Manny Machado. If not Adam Warren, then include Luis cessa. That would give Oriole’s another strong outfielder, a real good reliever, a 3rd base prospect and a good 6 starter/middle innings reliever..
The o’s owner won’t deal machado because he thinks they may flip machado to the yankees after…. you’re not getting him straight up
Orioles will not make a deal and send Machado to the Yankees.
Frazier back to Cleveland for Salazar?
Yankees fans wouldn’t do that. the way their talking it would be Frazier for carrasco.
Yankees should trade Frazier, Andujar, Cessa and Sheffield to Toronto for Josh Donaldson and Stroman
thats not even close to enough for Donaldson AND Stroman
Yes it would be. JD is a rental, and the Blue Jays will probably not be contending. That deal nets a rental and a good pitcher, especially if half that gets you Cole+ alone.
I think it’s closer than you think. Donaldson is older and a free agent. Stroman is the difficult piece. Andujar, Frazier, Adams, and mckinney along with some low level prospects should get the job done.
can’t wait to see the Yankee fans respond to this comment.
JD is still a top 5 3B in baseball (KB, Arenado, Machado, JD imo) and he would attract a similar package to Machado (slightly less). Stroman has 3 years of control so he would cost more Cole but not by much. “Not even close” was the wrong wording but I would replace Cessa with a guy like Montgomery or Adams, and add in a low level guy to get it done
How many players do you want I got an idea keep Donaldson and stromen
So you think that’s not a fair package? let me guess Frazier for JD and stroman?
Half that doesn’t get you Cole anywhere other than message boards though. Otherwise we’d all be posting on a “Yankees acquire Gerrit Cole” post.
Cole has a down year but from what I see his only problem this season was the home run ball which can easily change this season. I would love cole but I reeeeeealy want to keep fraizer, his bat speed is amazing
Cole has had injury problems and multiple bad years. No thanks.
so you think a solution to a guy who struggled with giving up the long ball is to move to Yankee Stadium to fix it??? Thats rich
it was a season. by that logic I’m surprised the yanks didnt rush to deal tanaka.
ppl need to face it Clint Frazier isnt that good right now and wont be unless he gets consistent at bats. The Yankees are contending next year and with Stanton, Judge, Gardner taking up the two corner OF spots and Hicks turning into a solid player there is little room for Frazier to play. His value is on the decline and it can go down even more. It is best if they move him now as a part of a trade for a guy who can help them this year. Add a guy like Adams into the trade and that is enough to get it done for Cole who only has 2 years left of control. Sure that is worrisome for teams giving up prospects that are close to contributing, but with teams like the Yankees, if the guy plays well they usually have little to no problem resigning them.
The Yankees have always liked Cole too which makes it more likely that I think this trade will get done..
Also, I doubt the Yankees would want to sign Alex Cobb because he is probably going to get a 5 year deal and does not have the upside of Cole.
For the Pirates, the Cubs, Cardinals, and Brewers are all better than you right now. You need to get young, controllable players who will hopefully grow into good players in a few years when the Cubs pitching gets old.
thank you for being the voice of reason.
You know who isn’t that good too? Cole…. he’s been mediocre and injury prone and you one to give up one of the best pitching prospects in baseball and and Clint Frazier for him. I understand Clint isn’t that good, but those two for him is a joke.
Frazier’s value is not on the decline. Cole’s is because he is the one whose numbers have been going down. You are judging Frazier based on a couple of games in the majors which makes no sense, because Judge sucked in his first try when he was brought up, and look at what happened in a full season. It’s about his talent and his abilities, which haven’t decrease. On the other hand, part of Cole’s value is in “what if he comes back to 2 years ago” . Part of his value is in his name.
Frazier looked over-matched in the big leagues last season, and had never truly lived up to the hype in the minors as well. He never hit above .300 in the minors and has a career slugging % of .452. And he’s 23 and will be 24 at the end of next year. At that point if he is still either in the minors or not getting playing time in majors he will not have that premium trade value that most yankee fans think he has.
Judge was different because he took type to get used to pitching in each level and showed the signs of what he did in 2017 at different times while in the minors.
When teams have long been looking at a guy they look at his entire career, if they think they could help him regain his form from a few years ago they will take it into consideration.
So you are saying that every single good prospect need to got over 300 to live up to the hype? Again, look at Judge and look at Severino when they came up, and loon at them now. Heck, look at Hicks.
To say a prospect hit at every level that usually implies that they hit above .300. Like Benintendi when he got called up to the Sox he hit .312 and .313 in his two seasons in the minors. People then said that he hit at every level.
I’m not saying Frazier is already a bust, but if he gets no playing time it will be nearly impossible for him to establish himself as a major league player. Judge got his shot and made the most of it after showing that he could make the adjustments in the minors. Judge and Frazier are the complete opposite, Frazier usually starts out strong in a level and then the pitchers adjust to him, Judge starts off terrible and then he adjusts to the pitching. Severino dominated the minors with ERAs in the mid 2s with a WHIP under 1.1. It was more then likely that he was going to figure it out, especially after showing so much promise in ’15. Hicks never got consistent playing time in Minnesota, which hurt his development, thats what is going to happen to Frazier in New York. He’s not a center fielder and even showed that he struggled at the corners last season. Gardner still has a few years left in him, Hicks is the best bet for the Yankees moving forward because of his great defense and streaky bat (similar to JBJ). Judge/Stanton have two of the spots locked down. And its going to be nearly impossible for Ellsbury to waive his NTC
NO Benintendi didn’t hit .312 and .313 in 2 minor league seasons. Check your stats.
And don’t you think that any new player to the league has to make adjustments after pitching makes adjustments to them.
And Frazier didn’t;t struggle at the corners last year…..where are you getting this bogus info. His energy, and batting carried the team at times.
Left Field in yankee stadium is one of the most challenging left fields in the majors Bub. Don’t think he did too bad at all for the time he played.
Frazier defense per pinstripe alley on July 28th: “Next is his defense. Frazier has made some flashy plays in the outfield, but he still produces a -0.6 UZR. Compare that to his contemporaries, and he looks like the odd man out. Aaron Hicks has a 5.0 UZR, Aaron Judge, 3.4, and Brett Gardner, 3.7”.
Benintendi played 2015 and 2016 in the minors. Sure it was not the full season but he still finished the years with averages of .313 in 2015 and .312 in 2016. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beninan01.shtml if u want to check my info.
Yankee stadium left field is not challenging, Fenway or Minute Maid park those are challenging.
I’m not saying he wont turn into a star im just saying i dont see the same makeup with him that I see with guys like Judge or Benintendi
Frazier’s value will decline though. He can mash at AAA this year and all that gets him is a year older and no more certainty of MLB success. Unless he produces in the majors this year, in an outfield he doesn’t have a spot in, his star will fade.
Exactly what minor league player coming to the majors for the first time doesn’t need consistent at bats.
I wouldn’t call CF the second coming of Babe Ruth but you statement that “he isn’t that good now” is way off base. I guess you’re another fan that become an. expert on Yankee baseball by watching ESPN.
The point of whether or not to trade for Cole is simply this….who can they get that they figure can give the team more in 2018 and beyond and cost them the least in value they give up. Simple math. And given that I’ve read that Pittsburg tries to “win” every trade that should make sense to any Pitt fan.
There’s plenty of time between now and the trade deadline this summer to include CF for pieces that the Yankees need. No need to panic and meet an unreasonable price.
nobody seems to be in on lance lynn
Why is cole still considered an ace. First off, he has been struggling with injuries recently. Also he has only had one dominate year and two decent years. The last two years he is pitching to a 3.88 era and last year 4.26 era. Last time I checked, even in the NL, that is mediocre. They would honestly be lucky to get Frazier and a bag of baseballs for him. Stop hanging onto past performance. He’s lack luster, and is just about the same as sonny gray. Get real.
dumbest comment of evening.
good pitchers more valuable than good of. young SP better than young of.
And? What’s been so good about him? Durability and lack of performance? He is currently overvalued based on a couple good seasons and one dominant one. If you have to give up adams and Frazier, walk.
His value it’s all tide up to his name. He could easily be a Javier Vázquez for the Yanks
It’s a team option,guess what Yanks ain’t picking it up
Oh yeah? See NY Mets! I’ll take good position players over sp any day of the week
What about trading Hicks for Cole…would free up an OF spot and then Gardy could slide to CF or have Frazier up with the team then. I’d hate to see them lose Frazier for Cole…I think he’s worth more. I’m not sold on Hicks…he’s hurt a lot and I think his value is higher now then it’s ever been
joking right?
NO he’s not.
Hicks has yet to prove that while he seems to have tremendous upside, he can’t stay consistantly healthy. He’s no good to them if they can only get 100 games or less from him.
That forces the team to carry a legitimate 4th outfielder that probably could start on lots of teams, which creates playing time issues and grumpy ballplayers.
Obviously not a Yankee fan.
If the Pirates were to trade Cole I think it would be to restock the system. They wouldn’t want a player so close to FA as Hicks. And Hicks probably wouldn’t be enough for Cole either.
Cole was a Yankee fan. He’d likely sign long term after they reset their luxury tax.
The Yankees don’t need Clint Frazier unless they are going to field two teams, Yankees #1 and Yankees #2 in MLB next year.
An outfield of Marte, Polanco and Frazier with Meadows coming up at midseason means the Pirates can trade Cutch.
Frazier, a pitcher (Adams/Sheffield) and a lotto ticket for window dressing for Cole.
If Cole is successful in NY for the last 2 years of his control then he’s a slam dunk to resign
Just how deep is the Yankee farm that they can keep trading?
On a side note, anyone else using the iOS app having these pop up ads?
Judging from recent history, you’ll never get equal value in trades with the Yankees.
Think about it… when have any of their prospects panned put for other teams in trades with the Yankees. They’re the sole reason there is no salary cap in baseball. #runningjoke
james pazos, nick goody, richard bleier, ben gamel, off the top of my head from 2016.
Who?
you have google. just because you dont who they are doesnt mean they didnt pan out.
Keep trading? They traded two non prospects for Stanton. Did not put a dent into their fsrm
I meant in the last year or so including the trades for Gray and Garcia.
Ells isn’t going anywhere. He demanded a no trade as part of his deal because he has a wife and 2 kids. He has stated several times he doesn’t want to move his family. This is his last contract — he will be 38 when the option yr. is over. The Yanks benefited from Stanton’s no trade but they will pay dearly for giving Ells a no trade contract.
It’s a team option,guess what Yanks ain’t picking it up
Ells gets 5MM as a parting gift for not playing when the option is declined.
Ellsberry to AAA I like that .That would be funny as hell showing up in a limo at Rochester.LOL
I would so go watch a game to see that.
Ells would get the whole 68.5 MM and never have to play another inning if the Yanks tried to send him to AAA. The Yanks would not only have to pay every penny to Ells but every penny would also count towards the Lux Tax. This whole argument just shows how little some people know about the CBA.
We paid millions to kei igawa just for him to break pitching records at Scranton so I don’t see why we can’t do it for pillsbury
Cause he can reject being sent down, become a free agent and the Yankees still need to pay the remainder of his contract.
I know we have some Yankee haters in this thread (Thepriceisright). However, I don’t know why you guys are so high on Cole. Even calling him an ace. In most teams he would be slotted to be your No.3 starter. If you want to see if that is true, look at the top 25 starting pitchers for the last 3 season and see if his name shows up? In fact match top ten in each pitching category for this year and see if he shows up on any besides innings pitched. Honestly he’s not an ace. If he was, we would not saying he has an all star appearance 3 Season ago. We would be saying, “he’s shown up the last 3 seasons as an all star” You are as good as the last thing you did. And his last season his home runs spiked and he has a +4.00 ERA. No ACE would have a ERA like that. Why on Earth do you think they are trading him, because you can’t build a team off of him. He’s not a stopper. He never logged a vote for a Cy Young mention. How is he an ace?
so he’s not an ace. he is a #2. the package of frazier and Adams is still the correct value.
btw this isn’t about hating the Yankees. it’s aboit the blind loyalty Yankees fans have. some of the comments here you’d think frazier was the next can’t miss prospect. as someone mentioned, you could also be looking at Travis Snider 2.0
Gerrit Cole was 4th in Cy Young voting in 2015. Arrieta won, Greinke then Kershaw both in LA at 2 and 3 (Greinke should’ve won but probably split votes with Kershaw) and Cole was directly above Scherzer and MadBum.
lol never logged a cy young vote. blind loyalty rears its ugly head.
I wouldn’t trade Clint Frazier, he can take over as the 4th of, he has better promise then Aaron Hicks, plus why not see what u got in Adam first, may be better then cole!!! Keep him Cash
I would sign CC just in case Adam doesn’t produce right away. Give him CC as a mentor.
This entire thread proves the point I made in another post the other day. Big money clubs want the talent, but don’t think they should have to pay the price for it. Just think about it this way—If the Pirates were looking to acquire Cole from the Yankees, which Pirates prospects would Yankee fans want in return? I’d guess the first 2 names out of most fans mouths would be Meadows and Keller.
And who is forcing to pirates to make the trade? And why should the Yankees offer their best talent?
The economics of modern baseball are forcing the Pirates to trade Cole as they know they can’t offer him a realistic extension and would like to recoup some value before he leaves for free.
This thread proves that Yankees fans value their prospects just as much as anyone else. If the Pirates were looking the acquire Cole from Yankees, you would be saying no to giving up Meadows and Keller, just like we’re saying no to Clint, Andujar, Chance.
I’d say no to anything beyond 2 of my top 5 prospects. Otherwise 2 of the top 5 is fair for Cole.
Did you see the cost of Sale and Darvish? Or are you just conveniently forgetting those?
The Sox should have gotten more for Sale.
I have a simple question, who looked Beyer Javier Vázquez in his good days or Cole?
What does that have to do with anything? That was so long ago lol
Cole for Ellesbury and $2 million.
Why would The Pirates accept that? That doesn’t benefit them at all, and only benefits The Yankees. Ellsburry is older, and would still cost a fortune.
Give Frazier with a smile. This kid will be average at best during career. Take advantage of the over value hype that goes along with him.
Delicious tacos.
Cole would win 20 games or more on run support alone. if that lineup hits for him
Games won are meaningless. Talk to me about his era, whip, Ks totals.
His ERA was 4.26 WHIP was 1.25 and his k% was 23.1%. He had a 3.56 k-BB ratio. I think it is obvious last year the one problem he had was his homers. If that normalizes to his career average you are looking at an ERA below 3.50. He had given up 36 home runs in ~575 career innings before last year and he gave up 31 in 203 last year. That has to be an anomaly.
Agreed. Plus probably better defense.
I’ll go ahead and say it now—the MLB is rigged. It’s become obvious the league has established strict spending controls for all but three teams (NY, Bos, LA). In effect, there is a reverse salary cap. It’s the only logical explanation why a team like the Cubs still operate on a small market team at this point. It also explains why no other team is able to re-sign their elite players once they reach free agency. Lastly, it explains the laughably unbalanced trades and draft picks going to NY and Boston, despite their enormous payrolls. If you think I’m full of it, keep your eyes on Harper and Machado, the latter of whom the White Sox are rumored to be attempting to acquire and flip to NY.
Here’s a tissue.
Been a Pirates and Yankees fan my entire life. Would love for this to work out for both teams. My framework proposal would be this… Cole, Harrison for Frazier, Andujar, Sheffield. Could see some salary (whether a small bad contract or just money) or lower level/ceiling prospects or reliever exchanging hands as well.
Why this works imo…
Pirates get 3 ready or close to ready potential starters and just as importantly kick off a full rebuild. I believe all 3 prospects *can be* average to good MLB players, but no stars. Could one turn out to be great? Of course, but they could also fail horribly. That’s the risk with prospects. Frazier’s style of play will be a fan favorite in Pittsburgh and he can replace the OF void for the coming McCutchen trade. Andujar could possibly immediately start or rotate at 3rd base and Sheffield can provide the LH starter the Pirates lack in the future.
Yankees get a #2/3 starter with ace stuff. Cole is coming off down years, but still is damn good and if he improves at all a playoff series facing Severino, Cole, Gray… that’s pretty terrifying not considering the run support they should get from the lineup. Harrison is the player I most want to see in pinstripes. He’s the kind of spark plug the Yankees need. Good bat, good fielder. Can play 2nd/3rd and even OF. Great energy, good speed, very good on the base paths. Going this route also doesn’t touch the Yanks top prospects of Torres, Adams and Florial. The day 1 potential of the lineup/pitching staff would be incredible and you wouldn’t have the question marks anywhere on the diamond. The money hit doesn’t hurt the lux tax and leaves room for a big move next year. Also retaining a potential CF in Florial for the future, a mid year call up of Flores to play 2nd/3rd and your top pitching prospect for a cheap starter in the future or injury insurance.
I know Pirates fan want more, Yanks fan want to pay less. But this would be my dream scenario for both
Well said- value on both ends!
Why include Adams in a Cole trade? Just promote him instead.
As a Pirates fan I would be happy with Frazier a fringe prospect and a lottery ticket. Still a good deal for the Yankees. Pirates get a top prospect who is near MLB ready
no interest in Cole for Frazier. He had a great ’15 & has gotten AGGRESSIVELY worse – and w only 2 yrs of control, it spells disaster. If he had a 16% HR/FB in pitcher friendly PNC with mythical Ray Searage in the NL, what the hell is he going to do in YS3?
Not really too interested in cole. But since I imagine this trade will get done, it should only be Frazier for Cole straight up.
Frazier and Adams for Michael Fulmer.
Not even close to a big enough return for Fulmer.
I’d prefer the Corbin/Drury package, but I’d like Cole also. Get it done Cash!
Why not just resign CC? They need a veteran influence in an otherwise young rotation. Sevy ((24), Gray (28), Tanaka (29), and Montgomery (25), are all still fairly young.
Heard yesterday on wfan they plan on CC and a guy like Cole to give therm 6 solid starters for injury protection and they can store Montgomery in Scranton if necessary
Don’t see the Yankees giving up both Frazier & Adams for Cole. Maybe Cole and Germa but that’s it. Frazier and Adams combined and a lower lever prospect should be enough to get the Tigers in a serious conversation for Fulmer, IMO.
Exactly, why give up Adams for cole when they can just promote Adams
When I see Cashman dealing with Pittsburgh, I always worry. How a coldly rational, often excellent trader manages to get fleeced time after time when the Pirates are involved….
Meanwhile, Pirates’ “fans” think Huntingdon is a dunce.
4th best record in baseball the past 5 years working with what would be couch cushion money to most teams, but…hey.
I don’t understand that one at all. Pirates have a very strong FO.
But really clueless fans and a media that seems to revel in burying them for anything and everything.
Trust has been so badly damaged in Pittsburgh baseball that it may never fully be repaired. After 2015, the team needed to fortify in order to maintain its momentum, but it did not. It almost seemed to purposely make moves to take steps backwards (ie, inserting Vogelsong into the rotation). Then, after 2016, rather than taking steps to rectify the situation, they stood pat, and they sunk further. Now, we’re hearing, “should we make changes ‘in the margin’ and ‘expect everyone to be better’ next year, or move towards a ‘soft rebuild.” First off, “changes in the margin” is a joke. That’s not going to compete with the Cubs, Cards, and Brewers. If that’s a business tactic for leverage, then fine. But after years of failing to make any bold moves to improve the team, it gets frustrating. A few years of winning after 20 of horrible losing baseball and baseball leadership/management doesn’t seem to be enough to quell our insecurities.
And I’m actually someone who maintains a little more faith in Neal Huntington than others. I’m more expressing the thoughts of Pirate fans generally here more so than my own. It can still affect me at times, though.
Interesting thought…I’ve read that Pittsburg always tries to “win” the trade rather than give an asset to gain an asset they can use.
Any thoughts from Pittsburg fans?
I think you need an “H” on Pittsburgh.
And the Pirates have lost plenty of trades, which makes sense given that they are almost always giving up the best player in the deal.
Also, what trade did NH rip off the Yankees? AJ? Yanks didn’t want him. Jose Tabata???
Yeah, it’s spelled Pittsburgh, Also my view is you take the best package of talent you can get.
The only real problem Cole had was his hr/9. if you cut it down to 15 HRs instead of 33 his ERA would be down to 3.56 ish (guestimate didn’t’ pop out the calc). NO LESS than two top 100 prospects and some change for 2 years of Cole.
Sheffield and Andujar would fit nicely. Andujar could fill an immediate hole at third and with some luck Sheffield will fill a rotation spot next season and is a lefty. Both prospects have their issues, Sheffield had a setback in performance last season and Andujar is inconsistent in the field. (according to reports). both of them though seem relatively minor problems though just from eyeballing it.
As a Pirates fan, i’m not too keen on Frazier. Sure hes got a lot of potential but i’m not sure he is a fit for Pittsburgh (right now anyway)
Keep dreaming. That is randsom for a two year rental.
two lower top 100 prospects for two years of a experienced mlb mid/top rotation starter is a steal for the yankees.
I wouldn’t want Frazier either. He didn’t show too well in his debut year, and didn’t show too much in Triple-A. We would basically have 2 Austin Meadows, or 2 Clint Fraziers. I would be ok with Adams, and Andrujar though.
Sonny gray got back ONE top 100 prospect (who was injured) (# 70-80 range) and 2 in the 10-15 range from our system for 2.5 years. Sonny also has put up better numbers than cole the last 2 years. What makes you believe cole for 2 years demands a much bigger package than sonny gray did.
I’m not too sure why The Yankees might be interested in Cole. Yea, he hasn’t been so homer prone in the past, but playing in Yankees Stadium isn’t going to help bring his HR/9 rate.
What is it about Frazier, other than his top 5 in draft history, that makes him an elite prospect? Is it the low 800’s OPS in AAA? Or the below replacement debut in the majors?
The pinstripes. They say black makes you appear slimmer and Pinstripes make your prospect stock shoot through the roof.
His lack of ability to hit for average – consistently through his minor league career – seems to be discussed less than his high ranking as a prospect.
No one here is “deluded.” It’s just that Pittsburgh has a starting position, New York has a starting position, and they will inevitably move towards the middle. When that happens, both teams will have to decide if it’s close enough to feel comfortable pulling the trigger. For the teams, it’s a business, a game, a dance–so to speak. For us, it’s emotional, a pure desire to be the best we can be at almost any cost. Of course Pirate fans (myself included) are going to overvalue Cole. I thought the suggestion of Frazier and Adams sounded fair. Of course Yankee fans are going to overvalue Frazier and Adams and believe that Cole is not worth it. I understand that thinking, too.
At least the Pirates are finally to the point that if they do pull the trigger on a trade involving Cole, they are not going to be left without any top quality pitchers. For years, the minors were so thin on talent that if anyone on the MLB roster got traded, there would be no one ready to take that spot in the lineup. If they traded those few talented minor league players, the cupboard would be empty. This has been how the Cards have operated for years and how they always seem to be in contention. Most Pirates fans have no experience in how this business model works as they never have had at least a decent MLB roster and a very full cupboard in the minors. Hope the Bucs can pull off a quality return for Cole and keep pushing forward.
Thank you for a well reasoned point.
Andrujar+Adams for Cole. I’d make that trade. Gives us a long term solution at third, and a potentially solid starter.
Bad trade.. Frazier is more valuable, Chance Adams more than Cole.
Yanks fan here. Adams has lots of potential but together better than Cole is a bit ridiculous.
I like Frazier but if he can only be an MLB corner outfielder he has no spot on the NYY team. Yanks need an innings eater but Cole is not my #1 choice so I would not want to part with Adams or Sheffield.
Frazier+Adams for Cole? Seems like way too steep of a price to me. Maybe Frazier and a low level pitcher would work. Cole isn’t worth 2 top prospects.
Frazier + freicer Perez + Thairo Estrada
There seems to be some interest in the Yankee prospects by teams like the Pirates, D-Backs, and Tigers. Cashman has a lot of irons in the fire right now, he will make a deal on a good young controllable starter if somebody what 3 good prospects. If not, he will hold on to them. Either way, the Yanks are in good shape going into the season and will add CC. They will use Cessa and Adams as their 6th starter. I would expect Frazier, Adams, and Acevedo to be in a deal along with other lower prospects.
This is what I was afraid of the worst GM in Pirates history getting another chance to prove it. He lucked into Dave Littlefield prospects maturing at the same time he was allowed to spend money and the ended the losing streak but after almost 10 years he has nothing to show for his failed record spending drafts and poor trades. If they trade Cole to the Yankees for young players/prospects it shows just how big a failure Huntington is. 10 years of high draft picks and trading off players and the minor leagues are bare with no real prospects while the Yankees who draft late have the young pieces to trade and still have a more prospects. At most Huntington came out even tied on only 2 trades but lost all the rest and the best players he drafted were not signed even while spending record money on the draft or they would have Lamb, Trey Turner and wouldn’t have to give away failed 1st round picks to dump salary..
There are no words for someone who thinks that Dave Littlefield did a better job.
But, most likely, this is just a bandwagon fan with no knowledge regurgitating the same “Tomlin won with Cowher’s players” argument in a new context who has been misinformed by years of reading DK’s word vomit.
Yeah only tied the Melancon deal, the Burnett deal,…. Drafted no one…..Taillon, Bell, Glasnow(Yes he will be very good) Garrit Cole for goodness sakes……just have to shake you head and laugh heartily a the sill logic. Could have had Turner?? He was gone to SD before the Bucs picked. Nice to make up stuff just to try and make a post look good. Try getting the facts right……
Trea Turner was originally drafted by the Pirates in the 20th round of the 2011 draft out of high school but because they Pirates dropped 5 million on Josh Bell in the second round to make him break his college commitment (and broke the draft system by spending top 10 pick money on a “2nd rounder”) they didn’t have money to sign Turner so he was drafted by the Padres out of college years later. By the way Gerrit Cole was the 1st overall pick by the Pirates that year.
You are a Moron!! Littlefield…. really??
Don’t do it Yankees! Do not trade Adams! He’s ready to pitch in the majors now. Offer Sheffield instead. Heck, it would be better to offer Montgomery than Adams. Adams will be better than all of them including Cole.
I don’t understand trading for Frazier, obviously it means Cutch is gone, but we have the same problem later on next season, or in 19. Too many OF, are they gonna trade Marte or Polanco to make room for Meadows?
Guessing they would not worry about Meadows till 2019. If they got Frazier, they would be able to give Meadows the year he missed at AAA and not have to rush him till he was ready unless there would be an injury or another suspension, god forbid. If Meadows can stay healthy all year and put up the numbers he is supposed to, they can worry about a trade this time next season.
I don’t care about Cole . I’m willing to wait to see how Chance and Sheffield turn out . I think that Cole would be rocked at the stadium. If I’m going to start thinking about trading Frazier plus plus . I want Duffy or some other power guy .
Would be a steal for Yankees and the biggest move of their offseason, other than Stanton. Major steal, if they get Cole for Frazier and Adams.
They could sign CC with same era and keep prospects. Chance Adams projects to be better than a 4.26 era and will be ready this year. Fulmer in Detroit would be better but I would bring up some arms and see what they have. There aren’t any great pitchers to sign or trade for that I’ve heard off. Sign cc and another good bullpen arm.
Lol. I like your sense of humor.
Torres has always been very overrated. I would trade him in a second for Cole. They hype up players just to trade them like that. The prospect ranking system is very political in nature where they hype players they dont like as much in order to trade them.
You hear that on Alex Jones?
They did re-sign CC (1 year $10MM)
In my biased opinion, this trade is already an overpay with the Pirates getting Clint Frazier (+ prospects) trading 2 years of Cole.
Based on the latest update, Pirates want Torres too? -_-
My question is why would they get 6 starting pitchers. They don’t need to send Montgomery back to the minors. I thought the Sabathia signing was the end of their talks for pitching, and frankly for anything else except maybe a 3rd baseman.
Severino: 209.1 total innings (previous career high: 161.2 in 2015)
Montgomery: 163.1 total innings (previous career high: 139.1 in 2016)
Source- https://riveraveblues.com/tag/jordan-montgomery/
Also, good to have insurance fort injuries that inevitably hit.
This still doesn’t change the fact this is an overpay (without Torres) trading Clint Frazier for 2 years of Cole (after Cole had down 2017)
good to have insurance for* injuries
I’ll be pissed if they make this trade for what is likely a fifth starter in this rotation. HR/9 was 1.4 last year in the NL in a pitcher friendly park. Losing Gardner’s replacement alone- straight up is an overpay. Adams may be just as good as Cole. He and Frazier would be a huge overpay for a guy that you’d hope to buy low on.
I think Huntington understands he’s only getting one of Torres and Frazier plus one or two lower level prospects. It isn’t like Cole is an elite SP. His results the past 2+ years have been pretty pedestrian. PIT should feel fortunate to get Frazier.
It would be a package centered on either Torres or Frazier, not both. That would be way too much. Figure Torres and a lottery ticket or two OR Frazier and another top 5 prospect. Either of those would be fair.
Weak no way we move Torres
Then… go away. Torres is who the Pirates have been after all along. They have no need for Frasier and Adams has the ceiling of a #3.
Torres or bust!
Bust then lmaoo the Yankees don’t have a second baseman and you think they’ll trade their primary option their to make an even bigger hole
If they give up torres for a pitcher who had a 4 ERA last year i’m gonna shoot up a school. i rather see Chad green or sabathia in the rotation than give up torres. Who’s gonna be the future 2b?? Wade? Good but needs to develop.
If Torres is in the deal then Pittsburgh is going to have to give up more than just Cole.
They don’t have any worth giving up torres or frazier for. You don’t need to deal those guys to get cole. Adams,Andujar and maybe 3 mid level guys and even that is alot but I think it gets the job done.
Frazier is expendable. No way the Tanks should give up Andujar.
If Cole is in the deal then the Yankees are going to give up more than just Torres.
I get its hyperbole, but “shoot up a school”? You’re just discrediting anything else you have to say with a comment like that.
To me, this is what I see. Pirates don’t want to give up Cole, but if they are given an offer they can’t refuse, they’ll accept it.
The Yankees should say yes to Torres. It’s not like the Pirates aren’t going to trade him back after a few seasons once they realize they can’t afford him.
No way we trade Torres !!!!
Clint Frazier + Prospect + Jacoby Ellsbury at 50% off.
Better not be giving up torres or frazier. Cashman can’t be that foolish those 2 guys have the chance to be big time players. I can definitely see Chance Adams, Miguel Andujar and maybe two other mid level prospects for cole.
lol Pirates are delusional if they think a top prospect like C. Frazier or Torres is worth a pitcher with an ERA over 4.00. The Yankees got Gray for less. Hey, I’ll be ok with trading Clint for Cole if they take Ellsbury and most of his contract too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We get it. You think the Yankees shouldn’t have to pay more than a third-string Low class A catcher for ANYBODY. If Cole is so bad, why is Cashman so interested? And remember this: there are quite a few other teams involved in the Cole negotiations. So pay the price… or hit the road.
I’d be inclined to hit the road.
I get that you’re a Pirates fan and overvalue Cole, but he’s a year removed from an injury and posted an ERA north of 4.00 in the weak NL Central, making half his starts in a hitter-friendly park.
That’s not an ace by any stretch of the word. Just because he’s an ace in Pittsburgh doesn’t mean he’s more than #4 on the Yankees, and the Yankees should treat him like a #4 starter because he’d be moving to the AL East and pitching in Yankee Stadium, where his ERA would likely be a full point higher and he would have allowed almost as many home runs as Judge hit based on his fly ball rate and homer totals from 2017.
The Yankees aren’t interested in getting Cole to be #1 or #2 and should pay accordingly or move on.
I get that you’re a Yankees fan and VASTLY overrate your prospects but all of your guys are totally unproven, including Torres and Frasier.
But you are right about one thing. Cole’s ERA might very well go up. After all, other than Tampa, all the fields in the AL East are Little League-sized.
But, by all means, feel free to move on. Try for Fullmer. Or Archer. See how
much you will pay there.
I dont think Cole is a bad pitcher. I just dont think he is worth TOP prospects. Does that mean he is worth A-Ball catcher with no potential? No. You’re arguing a strawman, pal.
Cashman has even more leverage now that we have our starting 5. No need to give up Clint for a pitcher, especially a pitcher who has been trending downward
Pirates are on crack if they think Cole deserves Gleyber Torres in return.
Fleece em pirates!! Yankees think they can get an ace for nothing gtfo
Cole is a ace ? Lmaoooooooooooo !!!!!!!!! Torres and Clint have more value than cole. Gray is a better pitcher with the same amount of years of control (2) and we have up less
Hum…..mindless says it all!
Could you imagine the nuclear meltdown on here if the Yankees trade Torres?
Thankfully cashman isn’t stupid lol. If he was then good lord the site would shut down if Torres was delt
Phils should step in and snag Cole. Yanks aren’t going to (and shouldn’t) give up Torres. Frazier and some prospects is nice, but some combination of Herrera/Williams/Altherr/Franco and some prospects is better. Hernandez plays 3rd if Franco goes and Phils bring in a cheap 2B (Utley?) until Kingery is ready. Phils may not be high on Cole though.
That deal could work imo
Pirates aren’t hurting for OF’s though, that’s why they pivoted from Frazier to Torres. They would need INF and P – not saying Phily doesnt have those, but Herrera, Williams and Altherr aren’t getting Cole.
Cole is a proven mid tier ace/excellent #2…
Frazier has proven nothing and Adams barely proven more…..
I think Pirates should aim higher…maybe not Torres…but Frazier..Adams AND either another fringe major leauger or a low minors lottery ticket…
Id be a little weary with the league change…but you can bank on 12-15 wins (with the NYY offense) a high 3..low 4 ERA and close to a strikeout per inning….
Frazier and Adams is a good package..but for a #1..#2 starter…id ask and hold out for more
I would be willing to deal Adams and mc kinny for cole (plus another prospect or two thrown in)
What mid-tier ace do you know of that goes out a throws a 4.26 ERA in 2017 and a 3.88 in the season before that? CC is probably going to be 4th in the rotation and posted a 3.68 ERA. Cole at this point is an innings eater. You do not trade your best prospects for an innings eater. In 2015 you could say that he was an ace, but we are not in 2015.
Also, why do you use so many ellipses in place of other punctuation marks?
Cole may or may not be an ace but he is a pitcher who has performed as an ace and will give 200 plus innings every year. Pirates should hold out given the years of control left. At the same time he probably needs to be dealt now.
He performed as an ace once and hasn’t given the pirates 200 innings every season. Also despite being in his 20’s he’s heading downward. No way he is worth a top notch package like some are suggesting imo
200+ innings every year?
117.1, 138.0, 208.0, 116.0, 203.o
I definitely wouldn’t count on him for 200+ innings every year…
Frazier, Betances & Adams for Cole & Harrison
Who says no ????
I don’t think either GM would do that trade. I would be interested in including betances in a trade for a good starter though since we got kahnle back this past season
The Yankees say no. You are either over-valuing the Pirates players or under-valuing the Yankees players in this swap.
probably the Yankees. I think the players involved are fair but with the Sabathia signing they are inching closer to the luxury tax and they wouldnt want to take on Harrison who is making about 10 million next season
Cole and Harrison for Torres, and Schmidt
Dont give them a good deal Pirates, make em pay for it.
Do the Pirates have to trade for Frazier because the Yankees want them to? The Pirates have Polanco, Marte, and Meadows. Sure, Meadows had a down year but giving up on a top 10 prospect after one down year doesn’t make a lot of sense. Can the Pirates ask for other players?
They want Torres
If I’m the Pirates I hang on to Cole, hope he gets off to a strong start, and trade him at the deadline. They can get a couple of top 50 prospects from a desperate contender.
Maybe a trade of Frazier, Estrada, and Acevedo would do it.
I really thought Cole was going to turn into something special. Now I’m sure someone is going to google a bunch of stats to argue this: IMO he is extremely overrated. id take him in a rotation. But as a #3. He isn’t close to Ace status. His stuff is but that doesn’t always translate.He’s not even a #2. And may be a bit of a head case? IDK for sure but I’ve seen some pretty bad meltdowns out there. But he can give you innings when healthy and an ERA in the high 3’s if your lucky. More than likely low 4’s in the AL East. Yanks have the offensive firepower and pen to make that work. But if I were a NYY fan, I’d be very weary of who we might give up to get him.
DO NOT MAKE THIS TRADE!!!!! Remember Clint “Red Thunder” Frazier was more highly touted then Judge. Has shown extreme power already, I rather give Adams Sheffield or a kid a chance as the 5th starter this year then make this trade!!!!
Pirates need to make this trade. Cole has been trending down and will start getting expensive. Take advantage of the Yankees aggressiveness
They haven’t been aggressive at all except for Stanton but that was due to the marlins being trapped in a corner. Cashman has been smart and patient
And the Red Sox are sitting on their hands. I give Cashman a lot of credit. This team is solid and like able. This from a Sox fan.
Yankees re-signed CC. There shouldn’t be a need for a sixth starter when Chance Adams set to be in the bigs in 2018
The Yankees must think the Jeter is running the Pirates as well.
I don’t know why the Yankees just don’t get Yu Darvish, who costs nothing but money or even Arrieta which just costs their 1st draft pick.
Luxury tax that’s why
That hasn’t stopped them before.
They are trying to get below so they can reset the tax rate.
Wow I thought steeler fans were whiners guess I never paid attention to yankee fans til now lol. But I’m all seriousness being a pirates fan if this were to actually happen which I’m not holding my breathe bc NH has let me down plenty of times I agree torres is probably asking a lot! But that’s what you do in trades you shoot and ask for the stars and see where it goes and you negotiate from there who knows maybe it ends up being Cole plus j hay for Torres and some or just Cole for Frazier and some. To say Cole is garbage or isn’t worth it is asinine he is a front of the rotation guy. Maybe not Kershaw but he has ability to be great he has had multiple 200ip years in the cy young race before and then he realized he was a pirate and it seemed the fire kind of went out and he realized he had minimal run support. This trade again if it happens can go either way for him just like most players he can be great with that run support and bounce back to be a cy young type guy or stay in the 3-4 era range. And yes his hr given spiked but as did plenty of pitchers around the mlb. I hope we do trade Cole to the yanks as I do feel prospects wise it’s a good fit personally I would like andujar,Frazier and maybe Adams or Montgomery bc maybe this trade makes him available idk but def andujar as that’s are biggest need and Frazier bc our of needs help.
Steelers fans are definitely whiners. Yankees fans are just driving a hard bargain.
Before every trade, they say the guy the Yankees are looking at is garbage and every Yankee prospect is a future all star.
After the deal, it’s “Cashman is a genius! He got a stud for a pile of nothing!”
Jordan Montgomery and Frazier. Send it NY.
Or we can just keep Monty who has much more team control left and fraizer. Fraizer takes over for Gardner full time when Gardy walks after the season
Keep Gardy trade Hicks and let Frazier take over for Gardy after next season
Hicks gives us a power hitting switch hitter off the bench who can pinch run and play very good defense if you want a late game defensive replacement. Plus he’s much younger and cheaper. I will always love Gardy but to me keeping hicks after this upcoming season over Gardy makes more sense. Now if Gardy was willing to play part time ……
Cashman already said Hicks is the starter. It makes more sense. Younger…. Better defensively…. Higher upside and cheaper.
Lol. Yankees aren’t giving up a Future Hall of Famer in Torres for Cole.
Wow…….
That’s a pretty bold prediction I would enjoy the facts to back this up? How many gold gloves has he won? Or mvps? Or silver sluggers? I mean judging by your logic you’re telling me he is gonna go the hall based on the cy Young’s he’s won right? Lol
Death is a trolling Red Sox fan pretending to be a Yankee fan. He/She commonly says this nonsense despite the fact that the future hall of fame joke started with Peter Gammons and other Red Sox writers talking about Boston’s future HOFers
Our rotation would be good. But our bullpen is the best bullpen in baseball. So that is what makes this pitching staff elite. It also has to do with the fact that we have so much depth with the addition of cole and resigning CC. So yes that is elite. If we keep Chance Adams it would be even better because that would add even more Depth.
Frazier, Montgomery, low level guy… After resigning CC I think they can get creative. Montgomery is something the pirates don’t have a lefty with alittle experience to add to all there rightys.
I like that Neal is trying, but he’s not getting Torres.
Frazier, a pitcher (Adams/Sheffield/Montgomery in that asking order) and a lotto ticket prospect.
I’d rather get Andujar than a pitcher, he’d fill the glaring hole at 3B and we have some upper level pitching depth, that’s likely why Neal wants Torres. Frazier + Andujar + lotto ticket
Pirate fan, but agree that Torres for Cole is asking too much. Andujar (or Frazier) and Adams or Montgomeryseems fair. Cole HR problem last year was an aberration, and he’s more likely to be a 2 for NY than a 4. Whatever the deal, I think Cole is going to NY as it seems both teams highly motivated.
Is there even a rumor that NY interested in Harrison?
Need to get two good prospects . A shortstop/ third baseman or a outfielder. We have enough pitching in our organization
Cole has only pitched 200 innings twice. First time was a jump of 70 innings and he followed that up with a 21 start 116 inning year. Last year was 2nd 200 inning year.. It was a jump of 87 innings. How many innings are you betting he pitches in 2018?
@BarrySparks……Espn.com shows Gerrit Cole with 4 yrs MLB experience, so two 200 inning seasons is actually quite good…….what would the Yankees give to get just one more 200 inning season out of CC or the Mets with Matt Harvey?