It’s already known that the Yankees pursued a trade for right-hander Gerrit Cole last winter before the Pirates ultimately sent him to the Astros in mid-January. Ken Davidoff of the New York Post sheds more light on the talks between the Yankees and Pirates, reporting that the Bucs wanted both outfielder Clint Frazier and third baseman Miguel Andujar in exchange for Cole. The Yankees were willing to part with Frazier, as was previously reported, but weren’t on board with adding Andujar to the package. Consequently, the Pirates chose the Astros’ four-player offer, one which yielded modest returns in 2018. Cole has enjoyed an ace-caliber season in Houston, meanwhile, and concussion issues prevented Frazier from making a big league impact this year. Whether Cole would have performed similarly had he gone to New York is anyone’s guess, of course, and the Yankees can take solace in knowing they made out well by keeping Andujar. The 23-year-old’s a strong candidate for top rookie honors in the American League after slashing .298/.328/.527 (128 wRC+) with 76 extra-base hits – including 27 home runs and an AL rookie record-tying 47 doubles – en route to 2.7 fWAR.
More from around the game…
- There’s uncertainty in the Mets’ search for a new head of baseball operations, Mike Puma of the New York Post hears. It’s possible the Mets will tab both a president of baseball ops and a general manager, but club officials have gone back and forth on that lately and are leaning toward hiring only one person, Puma reports. Moreover, the Mets remain unsure whether to tab an old-school or new-school mind for the role, per Puma.
- The Mets had now-successful Brewers GM David Stearns under their employ as an intern a decade ago, Tim Healey of Newsday notes, pointing out that Stearns is a Manhattan native who grew up rooting for the Amazins. During his short time with the Mets, their baseball department – led by then-GM Omar Minaya – “badly wanted to hire” Stearns on a full-time basis, according to Healey. However, they couldn’t get approval on adding another full-time position from owner Fred Wilpon and COO Jeff Wilpon, Healey relays. Stearns went on to a few other jobs elsewhere before becoming the Brewers’ GM in September 2015. No one knows where Stearns would be now had he risen to a more prominent role with the Mets all those years ago, but it’s an interesting what-if.
- Trey Hillman announced Saturday that he’ll step down as the manager of SK Wyverns of the Korea Baseball Organization after the season, citing family reasons, the Yonhap News Agency reports. Hillman left his post as the Astros’ bench coach in 2016 to immigrate to South Korea, where he has led the Wyverns to back-to-back playoff berths. The 55-year-old is likely best known for his stint as the manager of the Royals from 2008-10. Kansas City went 152-207 under Hillman, whose reign directly preceded the ongoing Ned Yost era.
Andujar and Frazier.. Astros trade package that much better?
Musgrove and Moran had really good seasons.
Surely you’re joking right?
no
No. And don’t call me Shirley.
Looks like the Pirates picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue = )
The pirates traded for two low ceiling high floor prospects instead of going for a package from New York with a potential high ceiling guy like Frazier and some other prospects. Musgrove is probably a pretty decent 3 or 4 starter and Moran is a 3B platoon option but neither one of them will make a big impact. It depends on what else they could’ve gotten from the Yankees with Frazier before you can really judge if they made the right call but it just doesn’t seem like they got the best value.
Huntingdon asked Houston for Tucker and Whitley. No reason not to ask for the moon to start out.
So, no, the package the Pirates ultimately got from the Astros was not as good as Andujar and Frazier, but they were never on the table and Musgrove and Co. were better than what the Yankees were actually willing to offer.
Looking at this years results Andujar alone was better than the entire Astros package.
The Bucs wanted to fleece Cashman and he wouldn’t go for it even for Cole.
Probably not which is why the Pirates would have taken Frazier and Andujar but the Yankees said no.
That’s my point… Seems like Pirates blackballed Yanks. Surely a compromise could’ve been reached, when seeing what they got from the Astros.
Great points above. Truth is we never know what was really offered but ib my view even then, Frazier had little value other than to trade him for a similar hotshot who disappointed to date be it injuries or priduction
Strange, considering the history these 2 teams (Pirates, Yankees) share trades Lol
Maybe we can get that guy to hack the ‘Stros again, for old times sake.
No one blackballed anyone. Didn’t realize this was such a difficult concept to grasp but apparently it is.
This happens routinely across the entire league. When a team is looking to move someone they set out their asking price with several teams. Those teams being negotiating back and teams go back and forth. Then a team will ask for final offers and pick the best one for them.
This is called “Negotiating” pirates asking price is obviously going to be high, there probably was several different variations of the trade. They liked HOU offer better than whatever the final offer was for NY. There’s no conspiracy against NY relax, read up on basic negotiations it might help
Yankees fans are entitled to everything, even their own reality.
Every Yankees fan before the Cole trade “no way Cash is giving _____ for a 5th starter like Cole. We have Sevy, CC. Gray, Monty and Tanaka, we are fine.”
K. How’d that work out?
No one wanted to offer what Cole was actually worth because he had two straight down years, fine.
But, when someone else offers a few more crumbs than you don’t whine when miss out.
I’d argue teams offered exactly what Cole was worth at the time. Players don’t have “two straight down years” and retain all their value. His performance this year has little to do with what he was worth last year when traded.
He wasn’t an ace, but they weren’t exactly down years. He was a bit HR prone last year after coming back from an injury shortened season, but the rest of his peripherals were still there and both seasons were in line with his production every year other than this year and 2015, which were exceptional.
Even if he did get traded to us, there is no way he would have been as productive as he has been for Houston. Their org improves pitchers, the Yankees org kills them.
FWTBT – Nobody is “whining” except you as usual. Get off the Yankee hate train and stop being jealous of our success.
Yankee fans realize that trading for Cole was a leap of faith….were you getting the guy from 2015, or the guy from 2016 and 2017 which were down years on comparison.
Great pitchers offer consistency and that was the primary concern for who they were willing to trade.
And the few more crumbs is accurate as far as what the Astros fleeced the Pirates into getting.
How’s this working for you Bub!
^This comment seemed to be filled with a lot of whining. Glass houses son….
Us? What’s your position with the Yankees?
Frazier’s value was down because of his injuries even then and while Andujar was known as a Yankee prize, he wasn’t thought of as ready and perhaps other teams weren’t as impressed. Just a guess there but clearly no one saw his great ROTY season coming ib 2018.
In a lineup that didn’t have Judge, Stanton, and the season Didi just put up, Andujar likely doesn’t have the season he just had. Teams had to pitch to him because the rest of the lineup was so good. And I don’t even like the Yankees.
Problem is the Yanks never agreed to trade Andujar so why are people comparing him in a trade. If it was Frazier and 3 other prospects in a trade Pirates fans would be upset with Frazier as the center piece. He looks like another failed prospect because of injuries. I wouldn’t be all that excited about Andujar because his defense is not very good. They need to replace him in late innings. Wouldn’t be surprised if NY signs Machado for 3B switching Andujar to 1B and Voit to DH where he belongs.
Wait a second Frazier wasn’t hurt when the Cole trade was being discussed so your comment about him not being acceptable as the centerpiece isn’t accurate. And, do you really think Musgrave is the better centerpiece here…..Pittsburg wanted the farm from the Yankees , the original request was Torres and Andujar, (as usual when teams look to trade with them) and the Yankees said no given Cole’s performance over the previous 2 years.
Sometimes you have to be lucky in trades and this one worked out great for the Astros.
“He looks like another failed prospect because of injuries” again this is rich coming from an A’s fan, who’s team traded for Fowler-injured at the time, Mateo-injured a lot of his minors, and a pitcher Kaprielian coming off TJ surgery. Than of course they try and laugh about Gray with the Yankees, but when he was with Oakland they say he was one of the top aces in MLB. Finally they’re not moving Andujar to first base…
Didn’t pitchers have to pitch to Brandon Drury and Neil Walker? Greg Bird? by that logic how come they didn’t put up, any numbers? The Yankees knew Andujar had a good major league bat, it was and still is his glove they were worrried about.
They didn’t know they had an .858 ops rookie.
Frazier has had multiple injuries that it’s hard to keep up but I do believe he was hurt.
Slight correction: *runner-up* ROY season for Andujar.
Carry on.
The Yankees, obviously, valued him quite highly since they wouldn’t move him for Cole. The Pirates, obviously, valued him quite highly since he was the player they wanted in return for Cole. Fangraphs rated Andujar as the 16th best prospect in all of MLB heading into 2018.
No.it wasn’t better. But it was the Yankees that said no to andujar being included.
But Yanks refused to trade Andujar!
It wasn’t not including Andujar that doomed Cashman. It was not coming up with a package Pitt wanted. A few yrs ago Rick Hahn wanted Todd Frazier but the Reds did not like the package he offerred. The Reds wanted Peraza and 2 other LAD prospects but the LAD did not want Frazier. So Hahn traded 3 prospects to the LAD for Peraza and the other 2 players that the Reds wanted and the deal was done. Cashman had lots of prospects he could of used to trade for a package that Pitt would have taken for Cole.
On opening day all the Yankee fans were talking about how the Red Sox had no prospects to trade for help; yet, DD was able to get Eovaldi, Pearce and Kinsler by trading prospects that were not top ranked .
You can’t compare acquiring journey man types vs a potential 1-3 guy who misses bats. Cashman has certainly proved himself 27th the trades he’s made for others but sometimes you come up short.
No Astros package was not better than the package the Yankees were not willing to part with. That is why the Yankees did not obtain him
Worse. There are no reports I’m aware of that the Yankees offered Andujar and Frazier. They offered Frazier as the lead, but the Pirates wanted Andujar as the lead. The Yankees didn’t want to move Andujar.
In the end, this is a Pirates issue related to what they asked for and valued. It’s not an issue that the Yankees decided to keep Andujar and Montgomery when the Pirates were focused on getting a 3B’man and a young, controllable starter. The two sides didn’t match up.
Frazier is overrated – signed a Yankee fan.
Life is all about being a minute too early or a minute too late. Much the same there are so many variables that can exist for one player going to one city and the same player going to a different. Would Jeter be seen as this iconic figure if he was drafted by the Cleveland Indians, a team with a significantly less winning profile? Same could be said of “what would Cole have done if traded for by the Yankees”? I really think Verlander’s mentoring, the Astros advance analytics system and winning culture were the main reasons why Cole has succeeded in Houston. The Yanks can offer two of those three elements but I Verlander is a significant difference.
And I hope this all makes sense. #420Saturdays
Agree on Verlander being a positive, thought CC could also be. But NY vs Houston media Edge Houston.
So you’re saying Cole couldn’t handle the pressure of being in a real market?
If it was all the Astros and Verlander’s influence how do you explain 2015, which was right in line with the season he just had? It is more likely he got hurt in 2016, had some rust after the recovery in 2017, and finally felt good in 2018.
Agreed. People look at Cole’s 2018 (2.88 ERA, 1.03 WHIP, 12.4 K/9) and his postseason success and harp on the Yankees failure to give up the talent to get him. But when he was traded, he was coming off two years in which he posted a 4.12 ERA, 3.81 FIP, 1.32 WHIP, 8.3 K/9. Nobody knew he was going to come back like this.
And you can’t say with confidence that he would have been nearly as good in New York. The Astros have completely transformed several pitchers.
Just look at Verlander. He had a HoF career with Detroit, but in his final four years there, he managed a 3.59 ERA, 3.65 FIP, 1.17 WHIP, and 8.7 K/9 (119 GS). Since joining Houston, he’s posted a 2.32 ERA, 2.77 FIP, 0.87 WHIP, and 12.1 K/9 (39 GS). Charlie Morton is another. He was a career 4.54 ERA, 4.10 FIP, 1.44 WHIP, 6.3 K/9 guy in 9 seasons for the Braves, Bucs, and Phils. He’s posted a 3.36 ERA, 3.53 FIP, 1.18 WHIP, 10.4 K/9 through two seasons with Houston.
The Mets should go into complete rebuild mode.
They have 4 starting pitchers they could get over 10top 30 prospects for.
They also could get a buttload for Conforto too for teams needing a corner outfield bat but not wanting to pay $35 mil a season to Bryce Harper.
If the Mets could show some measure of organzational commitment to win and offered big market money for their main players then I think the Mets could be back in contention in 2 to 3 years. They have a core, they should have the money, it;s about staffing the right people and spending the money wisely.
The Nats Phillies and Braves each have better teams and have tons of prospects.
Look at the Cubs, Astros and now Braves they went into the rebuild and made the playoffs 2-4 years later and are set up to be contenders for a long time.
But do you trust Wilpon because it seems he just messes things up.
Again? They’ve been in retool mode since the offseason of ’89. How long are the fans supposed to wait? It’s a disgrace that a major market teams conducts business like it’s in Missouri. Make the weekend at Bernie’s ownership sell and get someone in who gives a damn about winning.
They did make the world series in 2015. Harvey fell off and became a diva and Cepesdas can’t stay healthy and his contract is an albatross now. Plus Todd Frazier is a shawdow of his former self. They have a lot of older players who can’t stay healthy. So you can get out of big contracts but you have to give something to sweeten the bitter pill. Like the Braves had to do to get rid of BJ Upton they had to trade Kimbrel along with him.
You might have to add Cespedas to a deGrom or Syndergaard deal and take less in return in order to clear the money off the books.
Harvey fell off because Sandy embarrassed him to ignore his innings limit based upon medical opinion. So he blew past the maximum in the regular season and then pitched right up to the last game to prove that he was a team player.
Bad decision. This destroyed his career earnings potential. So stop the diva comments.
Cespedes is your boy, brought in by your favorite owners Abbott and acostello
Were they retooling in ’15 when they were one game from an World Series title? The narrative would be drastically different now had the outcome of game 7 been changed.
Voice of a mets fan spoken, my. Home of the would haves and should haves, the point is that they didn’t win AND followed up the next three seasons without hope. That is unless you are a mets fan, right My?
They have had some good arms, ruined a few as well, and have not built a solid base. Each year it’s a bandaid approach. When they were forced to spend significant money, Mutt and Jeff pissed it away on Cespedes, a player traded many times for the same reasons.
“Whether Cole would have performed similarly had he gone to New York is anyone’s guess,..”
My guess is that he would have been Sonny Gray 2.0. Cole found a PERFECT situation for himself in Houston. He certainly took advantage of it.
I think the Mets make a run for it next year. Sign a 2B,sign a C, and bring up Alonso. Get a couple bullpen arms. That really isn’t to hard nor to expensive to accomplish. The 4 SP are to good not to at least give them a chance for a year. If they are out of it by the all star break they start a rebuild. They had a lot of bad luck last year.
I agree. You have a starting rotation that can carry the team. Add a couple relievers and a couple hitters and you are a contender. You had some players that will get healthy… Bruce and cespedes… you have some interesting young players… McNeil, Alonzo, d. Smith, nimmo. Mets are pretty close.
I do think that the Mets will TRY to be a very competitive team in 2019, but I also think that they SHOULD tear it down because whatever they try will fall apart because of injuries and mismanagement. Sell the parts while they have high value now, then in 4 years when others are starting to wind down they should be starting to come into their own.
Methinks Hillman may be getting a nibble from an MLB team….55 is pretty young as things go nowadays….
As for Sterne being in the Mets FO, that happens quite a bit. Back in the day, Dave Dombrowski worked for Bill Veck (tho DD’s duties more involved going to the packie when everyone else was too soused to). White Sox fortunes may have changed if DD stuck around, like Tony Larussa (another member of the “after-game” club) did.
As for the Mets, ya, they have some pieces that almost make you think that they’re not that far away. But given what Philly and the Braves have coming, and the ever-present Nats (who are going to be a .500 team almost by osmosis), they’re probably better blowing it up. Those pieces will yield HUGE returns, if the right guy is steering the ship. And they have a decent system; put them both together, and it’s a rebuild toward a really solid team.
Yeah Bob-except steeler is a hopeless Mets supporter. Armed with his Wilpon juice, he makes believe that guys in the minors will play to the same stats in Flushing that they produced in Vegas, a notorious delusion.
Of course praying to find the pieces up the middle, where the Mets have been porous is absolutely laughable.
Your point is well taken. Given the up and coming status of the Braves as well as the Phils, and knowing that the Nats are there to show up stronger in any moment blowing the Mets up and rebuilding makes sense.
Except for their ownership, desperate for another cash cow season where they can use smoke and mirrors to lure dummy fans in so they can rob them of their hard earned money.
Optimism reins in the winter season, even though the Mets will come up short for the right free agents (NOT Cespedes-lol) and they spring training they are banging their fists in their chests and proclaiming a championship. Time has proven that by the time the flower buds open, so does the porous defense, and spotty offense. Once the starting pitchers start their annual visits to the DL, the season dissipates until nothing matters and they orchestrate a spate of wins when it is too late.
As long as Mutt and Jeff own the team it will be more of the same.
Ya, I could never understand how if you’re going to build around pitching (a notable goal), you go out sign Cespedes, Bruce, and live with those middle infielders. And this stuff that they’re only 2 or 3 players away….sheeeesh! Sure they are….3 players being Trout, Betts and Altuve.
Add in that the crosstown Spanks are good, and are going to stay good for a while. And while the Mets system isn’t bad, there ain’t any Vlad Jr.’s sitting there either; kind of high floor (in the majors) but low ceiling (average player) types.
Also add in the time line. deGrom, Thor et al will never be worth what they are today, given service time considerations.
Perfect time to blow it up.
I am not a Met supporter I am actually a Brave fan if you can’t read my name but anyway my point was that they don’t have to start a rebuild this offseason they can actually make an attempt to compete this year and if they fail to their best assets are signed for a few more years with the exception to Wheeler but you can move him at the break and then move the others in the offseason.
I agree the defense is horrible but if Alonso is a product of the PCL they move can move Bruce there. Rosario is a ball player the 2nd half he turned it around. So is Nimmo it seems. Gsellman & Lugo are good bullpen pieces.
The 2nd half the Mets played good ball.
Watch when I tell you Chernoff from the Indians is getting that job. His father is the program director for WFAN the sports station here in NY I bet it is the job of his dreams. It was the voice of the Mets for years until the Yankees bullied their way in.
If you’re not a mets supporter then why do you have such deep knowledge and skewed opinions. Real Braves fans spend time on their own team, not defending the hapless Mets.
It’s unwise to take stats from a player who had a good half season and project it to the next season multiplying by two.
Had they done the smart thing and
flipped one of their pitchers, they would have received greater value then they will this offseason as it gave the other team an extra pennant race and post season of contributions.
The Mutt and Jeff plan for spending last season was sloppy. When you go to a thrift store for players, they are aged and not desired by good teams. So at least they had some retirement announcements.
If Chernoff is half as smart as you allude he will avoid the Mets as the job could rob him of his reputation. All that he has to do is alphabet a heart to heart with Mickey and he will avoid the road hazard ahead.
There’s a difference between an old dream of a job and reality. Ask Stearns, who with a little investment could have been the front office leader to develop in the ranks.
Watch yesterday’s NLCS game Steeler? You know where the hero, Justin Turner grew up? Too bad that Mutt and Jeff didn’t want to invest in him for another season…especially with what happened to 3B anyway!
If you look ahead at the NL east, it’s a division where two teams are climbing fast towards the top. The Mets are in a row boat that is sinking and the only equipment that their Abbott and Costello owners provide to management are Dixie cups.
MY55. SteelerBrave lives in NY. I’m a Packer football fan in NY. Due to the local media, I probably know as much about the NY teams as I do Green Bay.
@ MikeYanks55 You keep running your mouth about the guys who put up stats in Vegas that won’t show the same power or translate here. The only person I can think of in the last 4-5 years is Dom Smith that’s it. For a yankee fan you sure do spend a lot of time worrying about the Mets. Did you even look at Alonso’s power numbers in Double A and Triple A? Almost identical that guy is going to Hit, And Hit with power. He is the Number 1 first base prospect in all of baseball lol. You are beyond clueless when it comes to this guy.
They took garbage from Houston. Musgrove is good but other than that they got nothing notable
The only bad player the Pirates received was Feliz. Moran had a pretty decent year batting .277/.340/.747 with 11 homers and 58 RBIs mostly hitting in a platoon role until late August and September, Musgrove will really help the Bucs next year probably be the number 3 man in the rotation behind Taillon and Archer if he’s healthy and throwing well he just had one big injury that held him back for a good bit of the first half, and Martin hit .337/.429/.767 between AA and AAA. Martin didn’t hit well at first at AAA but started to get into things at the end of the season (59games at AAA). While he dominated AA (68 games). Please look at the facts before you say “the return was garbage”…typical “you can’t get rid of Cutch and Cole” bandwagoner…..
Moran was a barley above average hitter for a position you need a lot of bat from. He is just that a platoon bat. Martin is meh. Just a 23 year old prospect who hit well at AA. These arent valuable pieces to get for your ace. Musgrove is nice but he is a downgrade from Cole. It made zero sense to sell low on Cole and thats what they did. And then overpay to get Archer. McCutchen trade was great but their 2 pitching moves were terrible.
There were Pirates fans on here saying Martin was a justification for trading Meadows to Tampa.
Not a justification per se but Martin and Reynolds coming over in the Cole and Cutch trades made the outfield a position of strength to deal from especially with Marte and Polanco under contract for 3 or more years. Also Martin has very similar minor league numbers to Meadows for what its worth.
Musgrove is LITERALLY what we got out of Cole the last two years and that was dealing with injuries all year we saw what he did when he was healthy and that was dominate. He’ll do more of that this coming year.
Didn’t strearns try to trade Carlos Gomez for a then mets injured zach wheeler only for the deal to fall though then traded Gomez for hader? Seems like the two don’t mix by fate.
No
No, that was Doug Melvin.
Mlbtr, we get it, you love the Yankees. 5 of the last 6 articles feature Yankees and the one that doesn’t still mentions them. If we want to know about the Yankees, we’ll watch ESPN. There are 29 other teams out there that you can talk about. Every team has a sonny gray they want to trade. Every team has a player they wanted to trade for but wouldn’t include their top prospect. Every team has a player that was injured and didn’t produce as expected. Every team is looking for add pitching but not sure if they should invest in an aging veteran…
I know right? It’s so annoying, and it’s not even important stuff..
I could see if they were making moves… this is almost everyone’s off season… every team is having the same decisions to make. If you want to go into such detail.. do it for EVERY team.
Articles honon cycles. There’s been a lot of Yankee and Cub articles recently probably because their seasons just ended.
Here we have fans suffering from a serious case of small-market inferiority complex, whining in a NYY article, counting # of Yankee articles.
Comparing MLBTR to ESPN in ANY aspect hahahahaa
It is not the fault of this site that every free agent gets linked to the Yankees. Get mad at the idiotic writers who decide to fill space by creating bogus rumors.
The biggest difference between the Yankees and the Red Sox teams in 2018 was in the strength of the starting pitching.. Cashman passed on the potential 2018 World Series title when he passed on trading for one of baseball’s best starting pitchers. Yes, Andujar can be a potential star, but to keep him in the fold, the Yanks failed to address their only major flaw. Sorry to say, it is going to be tough watching the WS without the Yankees being there., and knowing that Gerritt Cole could have been wearing pinstripes.
Yankees didn’t need a “5th starter” like Gerrit Cole, said every single Yankees fan a year ago.
Oooops.
Cole has out preformed expectations by leaps and bounds.
Except he didn’t pass on one of baseball’s best pitchers. He passed on a guy that had been pretty mediocre for the last 2 years.
If anybody valued Cole even close to where he has performed this year, the Pirates would’ve gotten a LOT more in their trade.
The biggest difference is that Cashman was unwilling to mortgage the farm to win this year. Dombrowski has pretty much destroyed one of the top farm systems in baseball in order to win now. They have elevated their payroll to around 40M over the luxury tax threshold with no way to get underneath in the next few years without letting their cornerstone players leave.
As a Yankees fan this season ended on a down note but I would rather have a perennial contender for the next 5-10 years than a team that is going to down the same road as the Detroit Tigers.
Really? Since the Lux Tax began before 2003 the NYY have been over every year , paying over 350 MM in Lux Tax; more than 23 MM per yr. The BoSox have never been over more than 2 yrs in a row and have paid only 25.1 in Lux Tax — less than 2MM a yr.
The Sox have 48 MM coming off the books for Hanley, Pomerantz, Kimbrel & Kelly — only Kimbrel needs to be replaced; every other important player will be back next yr from a team that won 108 gms. Another 18 MM comes off after 2019 for Panda. That hardly seems to be a team that can not compete in the future.
In those 15 yrs the NYY have won one WS , the same as KC, Fla, Phi,Hou and the 2 Chi teams, while the Bo Sox have won 3. times.
Let me guess the next article will be involving the Yankees. Already at 6 straight.
Get out and vote!!!
Completely unrelated to the post, but I wonder if the Yankees would sell low on Frazier this offseason. I’m thinking a prospect for prospect swap with the Braves for Gohara? Might make sense for both sides.
No they won’t sell low and Gohara is low.
They will do what has to be done!
The Yankees still believe Frazier has the stuff to start in left and be an important part of the offense….certainly Cashman will not sell “low” on him, nor Sonny Gray for that matter.
Frazier won’t be with the Yankees when camp breaks in the spring, unless he learns to switch hit.
That may be very true….depends on moves they make this winter but we’ll see. My comment was based on everything staying status quo through the winter.
Let’s trade him to the Pirates for Taillon so @FWTJBT head can explode…
Yeah i agree they need a lefty bat in there especially with Didi hurt.
Don’t necessarily agree with you. If Harper is signed that gives them 4 outfielders. The bench usually carries a fifth outfielder a super utility type infielder and a back up catcher.
Nothing particularly new here regarding the offers for Cole. It was reported at the time the Pirates wanted Frazier and Andujar. Frazier was regarded as the single best player offered, but the Pirates preferred the volume deal the Astros offered. The Astros are almost certainly happy with how the deal turned out. The Yankees didn’t get their man but have to be happy with how Andujar turned out and they still have Frazier as a strong rebound candidate post the concussion. The Pirates? Time will tell. I think they should have gone with the best impact talent, and that was Frazier. It would have been good for him too. The concussion likely never happens.
Good comment man, as I said earlier in this string, sometimes timing and luck are everything. Think that if Pittsburg really wanted Andujar as the centerpiece with significant others, they could have sweetened the pot and done more to force the Yankees hands.
I’ve read the Pirates try and “win” every trade. The questions is do you think the performance of Musgrove, who seems pretty pedestrian, and the rookie 3rd baseman would qualify as a “win” given what Andujar did this year, and the fact that the Pirates could have secured additional players from the Yankees that would have plugged additional holes on their team.
At the point of this deal, the Yankees had (and still have) one of the deepest farms in the game. I’m sure a Frazier++ deal could have been worked out, and certainly an Andujar++ deal could have been worked out if the Yankees were open to moving Andujar. I do think what you said about timing comes into play here, on both the Pirates side and the Yankees side.. They Pirates wanted a 3B’man more than they wanted an OFer, yet I also think the Yankees really liked Andujar. The Pirates also wanted a young, MLB-ready pitcher they could slot into the rotation and the Yankees weren’t going to move Montgomery along with Andujar (I certainly don’t blame them), so the deal fell into the hands of the Astros who had more of what the Pirates were seeking.
The issue to me, though, is I still believe the Pirates should have gone for the potentially higher impact player in Frazier and picked from the volume of arms the Yankees have in the lower minors. They should have entered negotiations with rebuild-thinking approach, but instead they were trying to get players for Cole who could help them immediately, yet they players they got were pedestrian. Musgrove is pure backend (if not bullpen) material. Moran is 26. Not a great glove, which is Andujar’s main issue, but he doesn’t have anywhere near Andujar’s upside with the bat. The Pirates may try to win every deal, but in this case their volume play won’t help. They don’t have the resources teams like Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, etc. have where they can bet big on a player. If the player busts, they lose, so they structured a deal based on multiple pieces, but the multiple pieces were blah, IMO..
I’d have rolled the dice a bit and tried to make the Frazier deal work. It’ll take another couple years to see how it plays out for all the teams, but I suspect the Astros will be pleased by the two years they get from Cole, and the Yankees will be pleased by keeping Andujar and Frazier, even if one or both end up being moved in a future deal(s). The Pirates take here is cloudy.
Cloudy, heading toward stormy. I’m not a big fan of Musgrove.
Agreed. There was definitely a timing issue in play here.
Did anybody see how Machado “hustled” to first base in Sat. playoff game vs Brewers? And that’s in a playoff game. So Yanks are going to sign him to a 250 mil. contract? Its crazy to pay him and Stanton almost 600 million. No way anybody would take Stanton off Yanks hands. Yankee fans are dreaming if they think Dodgers would ever go after him. I thought Machado was a great player until I saw him play everyday for Dodgers.Better defensively than I thought but not as good a clutch hitter as I thought.
I have this gut feeling that if Cole did go to the Yankees he wouldnt have had a good year like he has had in Houston. Whether it’d be pine tar or great pitching coaches, Houston seems to have figured out how make a pitcher perform at their very best.
It’s more on the analytics end, identifying pitchers with high spin rates, getting them to use their breaking ball more. In that sense, the Yankees and Astros are quite similar. They both identified Cole as someone who could significantly improve away from the Pirates. The Pirates liked the Astros offer better.
I mean, yeah, they are both analytics driven. My point was that Houston seems to do a better job executing and making a pitcher perform their best. They took a bunch of buy low pitchers and made them all top notch. The Yankees on the other hand struggle with pitching. Had nothing to do with what was offered for who. My point was simply that Cole probably wouldnt have done as well on the Yankees as he has on the Astros. Possibly the same with Verlander and if he went to NYY or HOU. I mean, HOU took Charlie Morton and made him perform very well.
If Yanks feel Andujar can improve defensively at third then we don’t need Machado. First base has to be an available open option for Andujar or Sanchez slow transition down the road late in games to create a better defense on the left side and behind the plate if both don’t improve substantially.
We do need left handed bats, Pitching, and an upgrade defensively which will be your role players off the bench!
Left field is open so Harper fits that need.
Having Stanton clogging up the DH spot is a true dilemma to be honest with you. I’m not 100% sold he likes being the full time DH either? He carried the team as the everyday RF when Judge went down. I feel if a trade to Dodgers was an option the Yanks would no doubtingly make it to free up money and create a more balanced lineup! I don’t think that’s an option.
Stanton doesn’t have to be the full-time DH. I don’t really like full-time DHs for the reason you mentioned. They clog up one spot, removing roster flexibility. That’s not Stanton. He’s actually a decent OFer. Think of RF, LF and DH as three spots occupied by three players who are interchangeable. They’re all big men and can use “rest” at DH. Give Stanton 40 games in RF, 40 games in LF, and another 70 at DH. He’s in the field approximately half the time, and that way Judge and Harper could be limited to 110-120 games in the field, with another 30+ games at DH. No clogging. Actually, greater flexibility and protection for the team. (BTW I’m not advocating the Yankees signing Harper necessarily, but I can certainly see how the Yankees could make it work.)
It’s still clogging if Stanton is getting half season as DH and the other half us going mostly to the two other outfielders. What about recovering Didi, Andujar, Sanchez, and even the lefty bat they bring into the team like a Daniel Murphy type?
Coles spin rate would not have gotten better in NY.
The Pirates were looking for a third baseman in the trade for Cole,not an outfielder.They had just acquired Dickerson,and had Meadows in the minors.They did not need Frazier even though he is a good young player.They replaced Cole with Musgrove,and took a flyer on the other two.The Yankees obviously did not offer enough to make up for not including Andujar.
Love it when sports fans, Yankee fans in particular, use possessive pronouns, I.e “our” “we” “us” about their teams, as if “you” have anything to do with how well a team plays.