Entering the winter, it seemed to be a rather bleak trade market for starting pitching. That changed a bit when the Mariners opened up James Paxton for bidding. And we’ve seen some chatter on still-excellent but super-expensive D-Backs veteran Zack Greinke, though the latest indications are he could stay put. Ivan Nova and Tanner Roark have been dealt; Sonny Gray will be; and a few other bounce-back candidates (e.g. Marcus Stroman, Robbie Ray) have at least been talked about in negotiations.
There are some quality names on that list, to be sure. But none come with anywhere near the allure of Indians ace Corey Kluber, who checks more boxes than all but a few starters around the game. He’s extremely effective, with outstanding strikeout ability and elite control (career 9.8 K/9 vs. 1.9 BB/9). He’s a proven workhorse who’s rarely sidelined (five-straight 200-inning seasons). And he’s controllable at a very reasonable rate of pay ($52.5MM over three years, two via option). Though he’s already 32 years of age, that’s really the only flaw in the profile.
In some respects, it’s a total surprise to see Kluber’s name continuously run through the rumor mill. In others, it makes sense. The Indians have other needs to address and have already moved some prospect assets in recent seasons. No doubt they see the remainder of their pitching staff as an ongoing strength. And perhaps there’s also a belief that this is a clear opportunity to cash in on a not-youthful star hurler who comes with all the same risks of any other such pitcher. Indeed, at one point, it seemed nearly a fait accompli that Kluber (or rotation-mate Trevor Bauer) would be dealt this winter. Then, the Indians swung some other trades to shave payroll, perhaps enhancing their leverage with their key pitchers.
All things considered, it is presently unclear whether and how a deal might come together,. Recently, the Dodgers, Brewers, Phillies, Reds, and Padres have been connected to Kluber to varying extents. It’s certainly not hard to imagine other clubs having interest at this stage of the winter. But the Indians surely won’t move Kluber unless they not only achieve commensurate value but also accomplish their roster goals — presumably, boosting the immediate outfield mix, trimming salary, and enhancing the organization’s long-term outlook. The ask will be high, but it surely ought to be. And teams considering Kluber won’t have any open-market alternatives, with Dallas Keuchel representing the best-available free agent hurler.
So, given where the market stands as a whole, do you think the Indians will end up dealing Kluber? (Link for app users.)
James J.
Nah.
xabial
Yes. For nothing less than a king’s ransom.
After the recent Yonder/Encarnación trades, any prospective Kluber trade, or any stud SP, won’t be financially motivated.
JKB 2
Agreed. Without the financial necessity they previously were up against they have no reason to trade him at all. They should be going for it and in doing so they need to keep him.
xabial
Indians shed the following salaries:
$8M trading Yonder Alonso to the White Sox
$7M after they traded Yan Gomes to the Nats
$8M in the Encarnación three-way trade
And that’s only the 2019 payroll, Indians shed!
They still make playoffs so need to trade SP will not be financially motivated. I count 22M in 2019 payroll alone not counting 2020 buyouts or options
xabial
22M saved* in 2019 payroll
jbigz12
8+8=16 16+7=23.
xabial
Thanks! I was wondering why all the dv 😉
Adam6710
Personally the more downvotes I get the more right I know I am.
fmj
I never understood why. They’re the “powerhouse” in a weak division. Almost a lock for postseason play. In a world where the hottest team generally wins, why trade your ace? We’ve all heard the arguments why, but it still makes no sense given the Indians current position and potential window of opportunity closing. If they stumble out of the gate and look bleak by the deadline, blow it up then.
Samuel
Because their line-up is terrible after the first 3-4 hitters.
In the playoffs – and only teams with strong SP make the playoffs – the Indians simply do not have enough offense to win a series.
xabial
They also have the worst OF out of all playoff teams
Indians’ division saves their @ss every year. tough choice to make for one of longest suffering fans in history (longest WS drought after Cubs broke their)
I think they get King’s Ransom due to SP market, and Eventually opt to trade him
sufferforsnakes
At least they win their division, and at less cost than the Stankees.
xabial
The Rays won 90 games and missed playoffs.
The Indians won 91 games and won division.
think this makes decision to trade SP trickier. Personally, Yanks, I think will cost Andujar, at the minimum and then some. With financial motivation no longer a factor, think CLE gets an amazing package. I meant no disrespect.
Empire Exoticz
Maybe because all the teams suck in the Central.
JKB 2
You think they will trade him before the season starts?
johnrealtime
I do. It would mess up their clubhouse bad if they were to be leading the division and they traded him then. It wouldn’t affect them so to trade him before the season. They have some great young players in Jose Ramirez and Lindor. They are trying to ensure that they remain in contention throughout their primes, not just right now, they need more prospects to do that.
This is a tough position that CLE is in but I think it’s the right choice. Plenty of pitchers have started to fall off in their age 33 year and if he starts declining this year then everybody crying that this is a terrible idea to trade him will say that the GM is an idiot for holding on to him too long
ColossusOfClout
At least 20 other teams in baseball could have won that Garbage Central division, genius. Cleveland stunk against the rest of the league!
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Didnt the giants win 86 games in 2010 and win a world series. Same with the 2006 cards. The 2010 giants and 2012 giants team were the worst teams ever to win a championship. When your best clutch player is marco scutaro you have major offensive issues.
StrawbarryBonds
The 2010 and 2012 Giants had more than 90 wins each and won the West. 2014 Giants won 88 games and were the second NL WC.
bababooeytoyall
Yeah but they don’t go farther than that.
Padres458
As the Indians are no they will lose a 4 game series to the Red Sox, Yankees, and Astros.
hockeyjohn
The Astros lost Marwin Gonzales, Dallas Keuchel, and Charlie Morton to free agency. They also lost Lance McCullers to Tommy John surgery they have some questions. The Red Sox lost Kimbrell and Kelly from a weak bullpen. The Yankees pitching staff has a lot of health concerns in Sabathia and Tanaka. Paxton has never pitched near 200 innings in a season. Happ is 36 years old as well. Why can’t the Indians compete with that?
Samuel
If they don’t get what they want now, their price will be met sometime during the season due to a contender either losing a SP due to injury or one of their starters having a bad year.
JKB 2
Yea Samuel your right if they wanted to do that during the summer. But they have a good team in a weak division so I do not expect the Indians to be in that position but time will tell.
MetsYankeesRedSox
Yankees!!
Robertowannabe
What all prime pieces do you think the Yanks will move to get Kluber?
xabial
Hopefully anyone but Andujar
They were willing to trade Andujar for Thor…
Thor’s better cuz he’s 26, Kluber entering age-33
Both come with three years of team-control. Indians fans will think differently, but Cashman should say no, if Andy is the cost IMO
PinstripedPride
Personally I would trade Andujar for Kluber if we get Machado. Kluber is an amazing pitcher that could make New York’s rotation the best in baseball
sufferforsnakes
Thor’s better because he’s younger? That may be the stupidest comment all year.
Dagoat
Thankfully its not your call.
Andujar rakes. Id rather see how he develops and spend money on SP.
rocky7
Don’t disagree but “spend money on a SP” like WHO?
rocky7
Well sufferfortribe, maybe but yours comes in a close second for stupidity.
Every post concerning pitching always mentions age and years of control.
Kluber, while proven, is over that golden age of 30 when pitching performance is supposed to begin to change and wane.
Thor, alternatively not a polished as Kluber and certainly not having the past accomplishments as Kluber checks off the new age Holy boxes of years of control, and age together.
YOu’re kind of the frying pan calling the pan black buddy!
ScottRolen
Mitch Haniger to the Dodgers makes a lot more sense. Perhaps the rumor creators should leave Cleveland be for a spell and check out what The Dream Team and Jerry the Dealer are up too?
throwinched10
Braves have better pieces for the Mariners.
FWIW, I think Verdugo will be a AAAA player. It’s a gut feeling but I don’t think that he will have sustained success in the MLB. He will be in the same boat as Brinson and Jesus Montero.
Bringbacktheblue
Some Yankee fans say Verdugo alone is good enough to net Kluber. But the Padres don’t have “the prospects” to get Kluber. Yankee fans want us to send Tatis and Gore to even get a conversation started. Lol
24TheKid
Urias and Verdugo seems fair.
sufferforsnakes
No, it doesn’t.
titanic struggle
I’d have to say yes, they will, because someone (Dodgers) will over pay to land him…
bravesfan
Braves sneaking in the background waiting to pounce at any moment… am I right?
holycowdude
i hope you’re right! they’ve got more than enough to offer and could certainly use a legit ace to lead the young staff.
PhanaticDuck26
yea, I’m not going to pretend to know the first thing about trade/FA prognostications, BUT… the Braves were, and still are, my guess as the team with the most chance of getting Kluber.
sufferforsnakes
Pache?
goldenmisfit
Not sure at this point. They have had over the past month or so excellent offers from the Yankees, dodgers and Phillies just to name a few but no matter what the offer they keep asking for more. It is Jeff like they are just looking for a reason not to trade him. It would take an absolutely ridiculous offer in my opinion for the Indians to say OK.
Miguel Jr
Angels?
cowdisciple
Fangraphs rated Kluber as the 12th most trade value in baseball. Close behind him were Matt Chapman, Acuna, Vlad Jr., and Soto.
Those are the kinds of players you’d need to offer to get Kluber straight up. Cleveland is right to want a huge haul, although it still isn’t clear to me why they seem so fixated on trading him.
Cashford64
The reason is that they have a solid rotation even without him. If they move him, it will likely be for major league ready players to improve their lineup or bullpen or both.
cowdisciple
Right, but you almost never see top end MLB players traded for each other. You see expensive stars for prospects.
Subtracting from the rotation to improve the lineup doesn’t really improve the team, and no one with a Soto or Acuna or Gleyber Torres is interested in moving them. Unless SDP or ATL is really willing to deal multiple guys from the top of the system, I dont see him moving.
robb5215
Looking at long term. If they cant win it all now, better to move pitcher for younger talent. 2 years from now the return wont be near what it is now. If they are all in to win now by all means keep him but will need to add pieces for that.
Slipknot37
I think they will for the right return. They dont need to now they their financial situation is figured out. But with how much pitching depth they have, they can trade him. And if it can improve their offense with someone like verdugo, i would say go ahead.
cowdisciple
I don’t think Verdugo is good enough to headline a Kluber deal.
I think he can be an average MLB regular, which is a good outcome for any prospect, but I’d want two prospects of that caliber and another interesting piece to really consider it.
Slipknot37
We dont know if he will be traded at all. We dont even know if the Dodgers will try to acquire him. But in my opinion, verdugo is better than margot and those are the biggest names that have come up in trade talks. And by the sounds of it it will probably be two prospects of that caliber considering their asking price.
cowdisciple
I’m with you. I just don’t think either of those players are even close to getting a deal done without adding one or two prospects as good as they are.
I don’t see him getting traded. At least not for the packages that have been rumored so far.
SeanBeezy
Dodgers overpay with Verdugo, Pederson and Lux for Kluber…..
cowdisciple
Still not enough. Pederson doesnt have much value.
Verdugo, Ruiz and Lux would get their attention.
Brixton
wouldnt necessarily say Pederson doesnt have much value.
cowdisciple
I’m sure the Indians would be mildly interested in him as a throw in, but Domingo Santana just got traded for peanuts. They are pretty similar players.
fox471 Dave
Bull!
MahatmaGagne
Joc Pederson has value simply because he is better than any outfielder Cleveland has
sportsnut969
I agree with you I always have thought unless the Dodger sign Harper and come off of Bellinger plus for Kluber that the deal with the Dodgers would look like this.
Verdugo, Ruiz, May, Lutz and one of there major league releifers
For the Who do not know Verdugo he way more advanced in his major league abilities than Grady Sizemore was at the same age.
Verdugo would be the best most exciting outfielder that has worn I Indians uniform in the outfield for the last 15 years with the exception of maybe Michael Brantley.
Payne Train
I’m actually surprised that they haven’t traded either pitcher yet … they could trade both of them and get two MLb ready players and a few really really good prospects … it would be tempting !!!
driftcat28 2
Doubt it but if he is traded it’s to the Dodgers
Phillies2017
I really don’t understand how the Indians are still as tight on money even after dropping Alonso and Gomes and having Brantley, Miller and Allen leave. Adding onto that, they would have been much better off financially without the horrendous three-team trade. Right now, they are over $10 million shy of their 2018 payroll and would have been able to have more flexibility without the Santana deal.
Obviously, I’m no expert, but it seems as though it would have made sense to move Ramirez to second, Diaz at third. If the Sox are still down to take Alonso, fantastic! This market is saturated with very strong first base stop gaps who could have been had for nothing in preparation for Bradley.
I would have tried to use Kipnis and a prospect or two (Civale/Chang) in a deal similar to that of the Reds deal with the Dodgers- get an outfield replacement like Puig using Kipnis and a prospect or so.
As for the bullpen, grab Perez cheap and then go for buy low options. more often than not big reliever signings dont pan out (especially looking at set-up to middle relief).
You have Perez and Haase behind the plate, stop gap at first (Wilmer Flores, Mark Reynolds etc…), Ramirez at second, Lindor at short, Diaz at third and an outfield consisting of Puig, Leonys Martin and whoever waits out the market too long and has to settle to a below market deal. Always happens
EE is DH-ing and you still have your draft pick. Meanwhile, Kluber, Carlos, Bauer, Bieber and Clevinger are in the rotation and you have Plutko, Hand, Cimber, Salazar and some buy low guys serving in the BP (Salazar and Plutko as multi-inning flex guys).
I feel like they over thought it and while they’ll be fine for 2019 based on the fact that the division is garbage (CWS about a year away IMO), their errors could potentially close their window sooner than it would have otherwise closed. Just my two cents.
cowdisciple
Based on how they’re acting, I wonder what they really think their window is.
If they’re this broke/cheap, they may not be willing or able to extend either Ramirez or Lindor. If they’re going to blow it up and restock, they’d need to trade those two with a year or two of control left to restock the system.
They really need to be going for it in 2019 and 2020. I mean, 2/25 for Brantley isn’t exactly stupid money.
I really hate what they’ve done this offseason. And I love what the Mets have done. Never thought I’d say that.
sufferforsnakes
They think their window is every season, because of the maneuvering they always do. Seems it’s been a successful style.
Oh, and I guess you forgot, they just recently extended Ramirez.
James97M
That extention just covered his arbitration years plus 1 free agent year
sufferforsnakes
2019 Contract Status: Signed thru 2021, 5 yrs/$26M (17-21) & 22-23 team option.
Controllable through 2023. That would be considered a long time to most people.
hockeyjohn
I like Bauers better than Diaz and I think the Santana EE part of the trade was a wash. Bauers has more upside and potential and is only 23 years old and can also play outfield. Diaz hits the ball hard, but rarely in the air. Diaz also lacks a true position and he fought trying outfield which would have gotten in the lineup sooner with the Tribe.
sufferforsnakes
Since they traded my favorite player (Diaz), I’m looking for a new favorite player. I’m gonna give Bauers a chance to be it.
DjRed
Still feel the Reds are in on Kluber. Unfortunately it will cost something like Winker, Trammell, and Sandilin (SP). Both Winker and Trammell will be all stars soon, in my opinion.
sportsnut969
I believe you are on this right track but most likely will take a package at least of Winker, Senzel, Trammell and Garrett
coldbeer
Keep Kluber, trade Bauer!
Brixton
gonna be hard to trade a dude who said he refuses to sign a long term deal
PhanaticDuck26
not many sign long-term deals prior to FA anyway, so Im not sure how Bauers comments affect the likelihood of a trade. An acquiring team gives up prospect talent for two years of Bauer and then that’s it–pretty simple, and happens all the time… Now in the discussion of a FA contract when he hits the market in two years, that’s when it’s gonna get weird with Bauer…
coldbeer
Maybe a change of scenery will change his mind.
clubberlang
Astros will snag him
sufferforsnakes
No they won’t.
astros2017
I have felt all offseason that he is the prime target for Luhnow
Brixton
unpopular opinion:
A 33 year old Corey Kluber owed 52M over 3 years isnt worth multiple elite prospects/good young big leaguers.
Hes not Sale in terms of value.
cowdisciple
Perfectly reasonable opinion, but I’m sure the Indians don’t agree.
coldbeer
Also an unoriginal opinion…
bobtillman
Again, he’s only owed 17M for this year…that’s it. The next 2 years are at the team’s option. So the full exposure is 17M.
But no, he’s not worth what Sale got, because of the age difference. But he’s worth pretty much more than what has been suggested here. The Sale return looks bad because the White Sox picked the wrong guys. The Indians are smarter than that.
Priggs89
Think it’s a little early to say the White Sox picked the wrong guys…
Moncada was a ~2 win player in his first full year despite struggling with his approach at the plate, and he flashed MANY signs of elite talent. I’d recommend giving him another year before getting too down on him.
Kopech looked really good and appeared to figure out his command issues until his elbow gave out on him. We’ll have to wait another couple years before judging him.
Basabe made SIGNIFICANT strides in High-A and held his own in his first taste of AA ball at 21 years old.
Benklasner
Is it crazy to think the Cardinals couldn’t work something out centered around O’Neill, plus other lesser pieces headed to the Indians? This is the kind of of immediate upgrade and roster consolidation move they have been needing to make, even after the goldschmidt trade.
cowdisciple
I still think it’d take 2+ guys of that caliber. O’Neill and Reyes, plus a lesser guy, could open a serious conversation.
Swinging Friars
O’neil, Martinez, & a pitching prospect or two?
sportsnut969
Not sold on O’neil he barely hit 250 , Andujar, Winker and Verdugo all blow him away a front liners headliner part in a Kluber package deal.
Martinez is just Ok if he was that good the Cardinals would not have went out and replaced him most Gm’s will see it the same way.
IMO Reyes would have to be the #1 return guy in a Kluber deal and I do not know where you go from there cause IMO O’Neil if they were interested is maybe the 3 guy in a Kluber package with the 4th piece being the relief pitcher like Austin Gomber.
IMO a 3rd team would have to be involved for the Cardinals to end up with Kluber.
Hanawi
As a Reds fan, I’d give up Iglesias, India, and Schebler. Could throw in an additional lottery ticket as well. That helps the Indians bullpen, outfield and gives them a long-term piece, who might be ready in the next year or two to help at 3B or 2B. All of them have multiple years of control.
hockeyjohn
Schebler is a 4th outfielder and not interesting, Other teams would beat this offer.
Central Valley
Madison Bumgarner is the SP teams should be lining up for.
James97M
Why? His value has plummeted
sixpacktwo
Kemp, LF,DH, Gennett, 2nd, Pitcher, India. Two young, you vets to fill missing spaces. Lots of offense.
sportsnut969
The only hope that the Reds have of obtaining a stud starter like Kluber is if they are willing to headline a package deal starting with Senzel , Trammell and Winker then they will have to include one of their relief pitchers at the major league level like Garrett this is the type of complete package offer I believe it would take any team to obtain Cory Kluber.
billneftleberg
i want no part of Kluber if im cashman, not a yankee fan, but didnt they rock him in both starts in the Division series 2 years ago? the man couldnt get through 3 innings in game 2 and in gave 5 couldnt get through 4 innings. then this season he was out in the 4th again
im sorry but thats not good enough when the season is on the line, he pitches great in the weakest division in baseball where he faces crap teams 20 starts a season but if youre tradng for him you want him to pitch like an ace when it matters
and outside of one year he hasnt done that, even in 2016 Kyle Hendricks out pitched him in game seven when the title was on the line
great pitcher when hes facing the Whitesox Tigers and Royals, not so much when it matters
Polish Hammer
Sounds great, now go look at his numbers split versus opponents (especially the Yankees) and tell us that again…
Goose
It seems like a natural match up with the Padres. They could deal from their excess OF and C, that have majors experience and controllable. It is a question of the xtra that does into the deal.
billneftleberg
To illustrate it further the Indians played 76 games in division and those teams won 262 games total. thats an average of 66-96. If you pitched half of your games against teams 30 games under .500, you’d win a lot of games too. I’d just rather not over pay for a pitcher like that
RedRooster
Methinks Bauer is more likely. Closer to free agency, still going the arbitration route which means the Tribe gets no cost certainty on his remaining years and not as iconic in Cleveland as Kluber.
sportsnut969
Bauer will not cost as much as Kluber but it will still take a package of at least 3 quality players Imo 2 young quality position players outlielder, 3rd Base plus a quality young relief pitcher and still may need to throw in a mid level infield prospect with some upside to land Bauer.
James97M
Why? His value has plummeted.
KD17
With only about 10 elite SPs in baseball and Kluber being in the middle to upper part of the 10, the Indians would be idiots to trade him. If their analytics show that the guys they lost could be replaced with cheaper players, great! Kluber can’t be. They have a two year window of domination if they don’t drop off too much and that creates an annual long-shot chance of getting hot at the right time and getting back to the series. Why give up the locked spot in the playoffs? It makes no sense.
Alonso and Gomes can be replaced easily. Encarnacion, must have been replaceable too.because he is the one guy that suggests that a shake-up might be happening. But I don’t think it is. Encarnacion’s money wasn’t that much so they must have metrics that show his numbers are going to head farther south fast and liked cheaper alternatives with greater expected values..
My guess at this trade rumor is that either a writer is trying to create story or a fan of a big market team (or writer) is hoping to build some momentum for his team to acquire an elite player since it’s been so very long since they have won the series. If the front office in Cleveland trades Kluber or Bauer, it’s simple, they should be fired. The Cleveland fans deserve to be treated to the long-shot hope of winning the world series by having an annual playoff spot. Who knows, maybe they can develop some players and do some smart FA pick-ups and earn a legitimate spot in the playoffs and then win it all.
This appears to be one of the worst trade rumors of the off-season. The probability should be 0 and if it’s not then Cleveland should prune the front office prior to the team.
Swinging Friars
If Kluber is as good as you say, he’s worth a good haul of talent. The Indians have a ton of pitching talent… This move is as logical as they come. Deal from a position of depth. This way it’s just a retooling of the roster and not a full on rebuild. Teams in smaller markets should be grateful they take this strategy. “Rebuilds” tend to last over a decade in the smaller markets
bcap
No way they trade Kluber, they are built to win right now.
Solaris601
Tribe has one of the very worst outfields in the Majors at the moment. If that wasn’t the case they wouldn’t even be listening on Kluber right now.
billysbballz
If the Indians are still shopping Kluber it’s more because they are maximizing his value before he regresses more so then cap restraints and he’s starting to show regression already in big games. Hard pass on the prospect haul it will take to acquire a 33yo pitcher with a ton of miles on his arm. As a Yankee fan I’m much more interested in Bauer for a multitude of reasons: age, big game performance, and cost of prospects it will take to acquire him will be less then Kluber.
Teator
As an Indians fan, they should trade him. Their window to compete is over when Lindor and Ramirez walk. Theres no way the Tribe can afford to keep them. Trade Kluber/Bauer to fill some of the big holes over the next few years. Then get ready for the rebuild. Unless Indians fans suddenly start going to games, its inevitable.
thefenwayfaithful 2
I was about to vote “no” thinking that in 2019, the AL Central is pretty weak and they could make a deal or two and make 1 last run. But what you said is 150% correct when I stopped and thought and voted “yes.” The Orioles strike me as a similar type of team a few years back that had a lot of assets and wanted to try to take advantage of a few last compete years. It cost them everything.
The tribe has less financial muscle then the O’s do, so making the same mistake would cost them significantly more. The O’s are in a hole with no path out right now unfortunately, and I’d hate to see the Tribe make the same mistakes and wind up on the 7-8 year rebuild plan.
Its also not fair to put it all on the fans. The median household income in Cleveland is 27k and in New York is 58k. The New York / Boston fan (on average) is going to have more money to throw away AT the game and on jerseys, gear, memorabilia, etc. If the fans don’t have money to spend, they can’t spend it.
billysbballz
But the turn around with the farm system is allot quicker nowadays and the difference to me is Indians have some youth and are the best in their division right now. Playoffs are a crap shoot so I don’t understand why they wouldn’t go for it this year.
sportsnut969
Comes down to money and fan attendance.
The fans not showing up to sell out the stadium drastically hurts what the payroll amount they have to spend on players from year to year ends up being set at.
thefenwayfaithful 2
Remember the fast turnarounds these days are because teams are getting value for their Klubers and Bauers. The teams that hold onto them are like the O’s. The Indians have more farm talent for sure but it’s not enough to rebuild a team. Can’t let them walk for compensation draft picks or worse get hurt and walk for nothing.
Teator
Exactly. I was naive back in 2007 or so when the team was doing well. I always though success fills the seats which pays for more success. The 90s and the sellout streak did not seem that far away. It was obvious after 2007 that success wasn’t going to be enough.
This past years attendance again shows it. I’m not from Cleveland and cant comment on its financial state, but it obviously has something working against attendance. Theres nothing ownership can do outside of trying to operate and plan for lower revenues until the league stops up to level the playing field. I dont think it will ever happen though. Too much money to be made from the Red Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers being successful.
billneftleberg
Except none of this is true teator,every major league team got a 100M in New revenues this season from the bamtech sale and the new streaming rights deal and national tv revenues are around 60 million then each team has their own local tv contract. So that comes out to 200M before ticket revenues. As a senior tax Analyst at the IRS I’ve seen The returns. The amount of deception delivered to fan bases is obscene
The problem is owners not reinvesting in their products. The teams that were smart built their own regional networks to expand their revenue base
You forget that Larry Dolan your Indians owner is brother to Charles Dolan who built cablevision into a huge conglomerate, optimum online in New York by leveraging the Yankees broadcast rights.
The problem isn’t lack of revenues it’s owners pocketing those revenues for their own purposes like Ed Rogers did in toronto. His 5.4 billion NHL tv deal was funded largely from Blue Jays revenues.
Swinging Friars
well….close to nothing ownership can do…
How about not raising the price of everything this year? That would be a good start. It costs way too much to see this game live now-a-days
Robertowannabe
Yes, the median income is higher in New York/Boston but the cost of living is higher accordingly. Disposable income ends up being the same after you pay for the necessities (home pmt/rent, food, utilities, transportation,) The game tickets and the items for sale at the games are higher in NY so that end kind of equals out to what the fans spend based on their income..
hockeyjohn
There is also many, many more people to draw from. Cleveland is the smallest market with three pro teams. That has to be taken into account. The Indians will never be able to spend like NY or Boston. Their payroll has been at record levels the last 2 years. They are trying to use a strength to fix a weakness. They want to compete in 2019 and try to extend the window beyond.
tiredolddude
Exactly right. It’s hilarious to read the constant blather from the major market fans. It’s like a combination of rooting for your favorite billionaire or your favorite metro population. In MLB, the rich get richer and ensure the status quo. Free agency and mid/small market teams constantly being faced with the realization that they have to trade their stars is symbolic of all that’s wrong in the sport. Ownership doesn’t seem interested in balancing things, but they’ll wonder why attendance continues to drop
thefenwayfaithful 2
Rather than control it at the top, I think they should tinker at the bottom and mid levels. Spread out the competitive balance taxes better to the lower mid market teams with the condition that it MUST be used on payroll. Don’t let teams take in that tax to make their owners more profitable. Put in a legitimate penalty for tanking like they do for overspending as well. How can owners expect people who don’t make much to spend all that hard earned money to watch a team tank for 5 years when they rebuild. Meanwhile some owners are pocketing huge margins. The Marlins pocketed money that was supposed to help them compete for years before MLB stepped in. Misallocated funds must be repaid to the tax the following year with a 50% penalty for standard violations and give Manfred the jurisdiction to highten it for serious offenders.
MLB also has to take a serious and honest look at markets like Tampa Bay and Miami that are unlikely to ever turn around and become more comfortable dissolving or moving teams. I have a place down there and it’s all Boston and New York fans with the occasional Cubs or Braves fan.
thefenwayfaithful 2
I understand that but Cleveland really never fully dug itself out of the recession the way the rest of the nation did. If you’re familiar with the area it’s not in a good place right now. Cost of living still far, far outweighs the median income in Cleveland. They have some new folks in politics so hopefully the people of Ohio will see a bighter next few years. Wish them the best. Some beautiful areas in Ohio.
tiredolddude
But in itself, you’re describing Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, KC and save for a richer owner, Detroit, too
MLB is the only sport that is geared for championship series being played in major markets on a consistent basis. Once in a while, you’ll have a feel good story like the Indians going to the WS, but the deck is stacked unlike any other major sport
billneftleberg
Tired old dude,your argument is tired, the Dolans are in the top 5 for richest owners in sports. The Indians issue is they pocket the revenues just like many owners do.
Robertowannabe
I have been thinking that the the only way Kluber or Bauer get’s traded is if some team really wants one of them and they knock the Indians socks off with some major league current roster players or major league ready players that would fill the holes in the lineup immediately. I do not believe that they have to trade either right now. It is a matter of if a trade comes along that involves one of them and it is a great deal for the Indians to improve now. If they do not get such a deal, I don’t think a deal happens.
sportsnut969
You would be correct
However I do believe that either the Dodgers, Yankees or the Reds will realize this at some point and do just that knock their socks off with a offer for one of Kluber or Bauer,
I believe that after the Reds Dodger Deal it actually could be the Reds because they can afford to deal the type of guys without hurting their team this.
Winker – Outfielder now lost most of his playing time to Puig
Senzel – top ready 3rd base guy blocked by Suarez
Add in a top outfielder prospect 12 to 18 months away in Trammel with a young relief pitcher like flame throwing lefty Garrett
Then I believe you just may have a Kluber deal. I do not believe Bauer would bring as much as Kluber but it would be pretty close maybe minus Trammell.
cowdisciple
That package would get it done for sure. Might even be a little too much – I think three of those four would be enough. Even two of those four plus a smaller piece would be better than anything we’ve heard about so far.
Swinging Friars
Replace the Yankees with Braves
Dodgers should be the obvious frontrunners even after their trade with the Reds. They still have a ton of good players and just 7 places to put them
thefenwayfaithful 2
Too many teams need pitching. They will get an offer. However the Indians also need to live in reality. Teams aren’t coughing up 2-3 top prospects for starting pitchers at klubers age. With his declining advanced metrics, the Indians should jump at the first offer that offers at least 1 close to sure thing MLB talent. It will still be better then the compensation pick or anything they will get midseason. If they aren’t careful he could get hurt in the early season and they get nothing at all.
hockeyjohn
Kluber has 3 years of control and won 20 games last year and finished 3rd in the CY Young Award. How is that declining? Teams are throwing around money to pitchers 3 – 5 years older than Kluber. He should at least get 2 elite pieces or they should just keep him.
Burgeezy
What declining advanced metrics?
RealCarlAllen
The Reds showed in their move for Wood/Puig that they’re trying to contend now. But they’re not close yet. They have PLENTY of prospects to return Kluber…it’s just a matter of asking price.
Winker is a high OBP COF bat, still very young and several years of control. Winker + Trammell + x?
Or are the Indians holding out for Senzel?
Swinging Friars
“They have PLENTY of prospects to return Kluber…it’s just a matter of asking price.”
Nailed it
Reds, Braves, & Padres should be the ones getting calls. However this point is why nothing gets done.
Dodgers have the MLB talent to get this done right now with an over pay. This is the next headline i fear…. Dodgers get another TOR pitcher and still field an all-star caliber player at every position
sportsnut969
The Padres for a Kluber trade would most likely have to part with Franmil Reyes , Ty France, Travis Jankowski, Outfield Prospect Buddy Reed and Relief Pitcher Brad Wieck
hockeyjohn
Sportsnut969 you have to be drinking to think that package would get Kluber. I can not even try to explain to you how lousy of offer this is,
Priggs89
One of those guys *might* be good enough to be the third piece going back in a Kluber deal.
RealCarlAllen
Here’s a thought: even without Kluber, the Indians might have the best top 3 in the AL in Bauer, Carrasco, Clevinger. They need some major help in the outfield, catcher, and the bullpen.
If they can fill all those needs for the short term, AND add a high end prospect, that’d be a win for both short term and long term.
Reds: Winker, Barnhart, Hernandez/Hughes, Trammell.
debubba
Disagree about where we are with catchers. Perez may not hit as many homers but he calls a good game and the pitchers trust him. Hassle has some pop and caught both no hitters for Pluto and Bieber at Columbus. I think he may be the starter by All-star break.
hockeyjohn
I believe that the Indians catching prospect Haase that will replace Gomes on the roster was just voted the best defensive catcher in the minors. Cleveland values defense. Also Haase has some HR pop in his bat.
sufferforsnakes
Also, they have a guy at AA who’s quietly progressing up the ladder, and had a decent AFL showing — Li-Jen Chu.
And their first pick this past draft was a catcher — Bo Naylor.
RealCarlAllen
I like Perez but not as a #1 guy. He walks plenty and plays decent defense but doesn’t hit for power. Haase might hit for power but doesn’t hit for average or walk much. It might not be as big of a need as OF
Moonlight Graham
I voted “yes,” but It seems like a toss-up. Cleveland likely won’t trade him unless they’re blown away by an offer. So they’re fishing, but they’re being discerning.
Frankly, San Diego probably needs to include Gore, along with a couple of their MLB outfielders (pick two out of Renfroe, Margot and Franchy Cordero…they shouldn’t let Franmil Reyes go) if they want a top-5 ace like Kluber.
Meanwhile, if Cleveland is serious about competing, they shouldn’t even be talking to the Dodgers. Imagine reaching the World Series, only to be going up against Kershaw-Kluber-Buehler-Kuo/Hill/Urias/Maeda. I realize that’s planning far ahead, but it’s a very real possibility.
Coal tender
Being a follower of Ranger baseball, I think Corey Kluber would be a nice addition to the team as the star “starter” in their inaugural opening of their new stadium in 2020. But what would be the cost to acquire such an ace? Rangers are midway “rebuilding” their farm system and would hate to send the Indians some of their cream of the crop to get him. On second thought, lets just forget that idea.
believeland
I think they’d trade him, but only for a haul that improved multiple positions for next year. He’s likely to age better than most pitchers as he gets older because he knows HOW to pitch. Regardless of velocity loss (which happens with age), he’s going to continue to pitch incredibly well because of a skill set that ages well.. As such, If the Indians trade him, they’d have to improve several spots on the roster. Ideally, that would mean 2 outfielders and another bullpen arm.
It’s difficult to find a good comparison for him in a trade. He’s clearly one of the best pitchers in baseball on a reasonable contract (and if his arm falls off, only one more season is guaranteed, everything else is an option year). He’s a more established pitcher than Chris Sale when he was traded, but also older and more expensive. But he’s also younger than R.A. Dickey was when he got traded a few years ago (which the extension made him only slightly cheaper than Kluber, and Dickey brought back two top 20 prospects).
At the end of the day, top-5 pitchers in baseball don’t come up very often and here’s a chance to get one. Trading for him is going to hurt. Your team will have to give up more than you’re comfortable with. It likely means a young major league player with a high ceiling, a top prospect, a bullpen arm, and a lower level flyer type prospect.
Oh, and there is no chance he becomes a Yankee. He’d likely go to a. N.L. team, my guess is the Reds (centered on Winker, Senzel, a pen’ arm, and a minor league guy).
Sum Guy
I personally don’t think anyone logical will acquire Kluber. The Indians clearly have a steep asking price otherwise I think the Yankees would have already pulled the trigger. The problem is is that Kluber is now 33, and he’s already starting to show signs of decline. How many years of “ACE” are you going to get from him? And with that being said is it worth giving up major league ready talent or top notch kids for that. I don’t see it. The package Seattle got for Paxton seems par for what I think Kluber is worth at this point.