The Padres and Indians remain engaged in “continued discussions” regarding Cleveland’s group of high-quality, veteran starters, according to a report from Ken Rosenthal and Dennis Lin of The Athletic (Twitter link). There’s no expectation that a deal will come together by the start of the season, but the ongoing chatter remains notable.
When the Friars first started inquiring on high-end pitching, it was arguably a premature pursuit for a team whose best prospects are still filtering up to the majors. But the club’s MLB talent base was improved substantially with the stunning signing of superstar Manny Machado — a decision that raised expectations and enhanced the merits of surrendering future assets to improve the existing pitching staff.
The San Diego rotation is not without promise, particularly in the long run. Trouble is, it’s more or less completely lacking in established MLB rotation pieces. The club returns only two pitchers that took at least twenty starts in the bigs last year; neither of those hurlers (Joey Lucchesi and Eric Lauer) had previously thrown a pitch at the game’s highest level.
While it’s easy to dream on players like Chris Paddack, who seems on track to earn a big-league job, the Padres would surely like a more established arm to anchor the staff. The Indians have those in spades, with Corey Kluber and Trevor Bauer seeming to represent the likeliest trade candidates. The former is controlled for three seasons at $52.5MM in total (the final two seasons via option), while the latter is earning $13MM this year with another arb season left to go.
The Indians are said to have lowered their asking price somewhat since the sides’ earlier discussions. That fact does at least speak to the organization’s motivations. Evidently, it still thinks there may be an opportunity to trim some financial obligations while maintaining a still-strong rotation and adding talent in other areas. Just what Cleveland really needs to make a deal obviously isn’t known, but it stands to reason that controllable talent in the outfield would be of particular interest.
As before, the Padres are loaded with young talent of nearly every imaginable asset class. Top prospect Fernando Tatis Jr. is surely off limits; perhaps the same holds true of a few other premium young players the club holds most dearly. But it is still possible to imagine several pathways to an agreement. After all, these teams have lined up on a notable deal involving a top prospect, valuable young player, and excellent veteran in the not-so-distant past.
When did the Padres decide that Robbie Erlin is going to the pen instead of starting?
Probably when he got shelled last week.
Erlin got the start today and went two scoreless, sounds like he’s still in the mix especially with Nix out.
Why? Add another lefty?
Outside of paddack they all throw left
Another reason I’d guess SD may want Bauer. His trade value is lower than Kluber’s, he’s a righty, and his past season may have the Friars seeing him as a nearly an ace to upgrade their rotation and bolster the ‘pen by bumping whoever Erlin to the bullpen.
Watch the Padres swoop in and take Gio right out from under the Spankees!
that would be a blessing in disguise for the yanks
They didn’t. If they are unable to add a starter Erlin will be part of a group of openers that will go 2-3 innings. Very similar to what happened in yesterday’s game.
The Padres are talking to the Indians about Kluber, even though rumors were that they were not interested in the older starter. Bauer’s declaration that he was going to go through arbitration each year and would not sign an extension before hitting free agency seemed to turn off many teams that were interested in trading for him earlier in the offseason. With Preller, you never know.
Mike Chernoff spent much of yesterday at Padres camp. He watched a game on the back fields and then took in the Padres game against the Indians. The interest seems very real and there must be specific players being discussed or the GM would not be spending a day scouting them one final time. This type of late in camp trade seems to be part of Preller’s M.O. Going to be interesting watching the Padres this season. Without a vet starter to anchor that staff, they are in for a tough year. 75-78 wins probably. With a top notch starter on board they could see mid 80’s in wins.
Probably, when he was born..
Bauer over Kluber please
+1
+2
+3
You are an Indians fan? It’s going to be very hard to get true value for Bauer after he announced that he would not even consider an extension and would go to arbitration the next 2 seasons before hitting free agency.
Not really. Smart GM’s don’t give up extra value in a trade because they think a player will sign an extension. Bauer’s 2019 and 2020 seasons have plenty of value on their own. I’d still rather the Padres not trade for him though.
They do give up less value when they know they will have to go through the hassle of an arbitration hearing each season and are guaranteed that they have no shot at signing the players to an extension. If Bauer had 3+ years of control, it would be a different story. He has 2 years.
No, if the thought of extending a player is a must for them, they either make the trade contingent on an extension or wait until he is a free agent. No GM is giving up anything for a hypothetical intangible and if they are you have a GM that is incompetent and needs to be replaced.
You are missing the point. Teams give up LESS for guys that they see as having to fight every step of the way for every dollar and that refuse to do things the team way when it comes to training and pitching philosophy. Bauer is one of those guys. A GM would overlook his offseason comments if they were getting him for 4 seasons. For 2 they will not overlook his comments. The Indians will get less for 2 years of Bauer than they would for 3 years of a 33 year old Kluber.
Again, if a GM trades for a player (or gives up more in a trade for a player) because he thinks he will be able to extend him he needs to be replaced. You trade for what you are objectively getting. If Trevor Bauer’s 2019 and 2020 seasons hold no value to you, don’t trade for him!
Again. you missed the point entirely. Not worth trying to explain it to you again.
No I didn’t. You’re just wrong.
And Trevor Bauer’s 2019 and 2020 seasons are plenty valuable as it is.
You don’t understand and that’s ok. Keyboard warriors like you rarely do. GM’s will not pay as much for a guy that will take them to an arbitration hearing every season as they would for a guy that is at least reasonable. A guy that has said he will only sign one year deals his entire career is not being reasonable. GM’s want to lock in their costs and their roster. With Bauer they are guaranteed that neither will happen. GM’s are not willing to pay as much for guys that are not willing to be team players and adhere to the team pitching philosophy and training procedures. Just look at how little the Indians had to give up in that 3 team trade to bring Bauer there. Bauer had a 4.36 career ERA prior to last season. 2018 was his only season that was better than MLB average. Bauer only has 2 seasons of control. For all those reasons the Indians will get more for Kluber than Bauer. If that goes over your head again, there is nothing that will help you understand.
Or MAYBE, it is pompous, obtuse windbags like yourself that don’t understand…
Unless the player agrees to an extension AS PART OF THE TRADE there is never a guarantee that the team will be able to lock in their costs and roster. GM’s know this. But the thing is they are trying to make their teams better NOW and Trevor Bauer will make a team better NOW. So what you do is give up whatever you think 2 years of Trevor Bauer is worth. And if he happens to stay longer than he is contractually obligated to, then that’s just icing on the cake. This goes for every player unless they are willing to agree to an extension as part of the trade.
You really should apply for one of the GM jobs. I don’t know if you’d do a good job but at least we wouldn’t have to read your continued drivel on here.
Here again, Koamalu, just because Padresfanatic doesn’t agree with you, you talk down to him. Apparently, you are one that misses the point of respect. Try learning it, then we can have a respectful conversation about baseball,
Some people just don’t have the necessary social skills to interact with others properly. I probably should have just ignored him but I was bored.
*shrug*
Cleveland must have interest in getting Mejia back after they dealt Yan, Renfroe to decrease the outfield log jam and throw in either Allen or Weathers for either one of them
Yes thinking Roberto Perez could replaced Yan Gomes was a drastic oversight by the Indians front office.
Austin Allen could be that guy
Many do not project Mejia as a mlb catcher. Like Santana, his skills behind the plate are not as effective as his bat. If they did trade for him, it would be for a corner outfield spot in the long run.
it’s not like OF is one of their strengths either
Exactly, except he refused to play there to get to the majors. I’d be extremely shocked if they wanted him back in Cleveland that bad.
Mejia only has high value if he stays at catcher. I don’t see Cleveland wanting him back.
Mejia’s only value is as a hitter and he is a good one. Wherever he plays he is going to hit well and will have value. I would predict somewhere around a .280/.330/.450 hitter. That is valuable. With that kind of bat, he would be one of the better hitting catchers in MLB if he is eventually able to learn how to play defense. So far this spring he has exhibited no improvement in games. Noisy glove. Not good at blocking pitches. Footwork is bad. Pitchers call him off 5-6 times each at bat. Maybe there is something the Padres are seeing in backfields action, but he is still awful in game situations.
the kid has a cannon for an arm. He should be given as much time as he needs to improve as a catcher. It’s not like Hedges is nearing his retirement. .
Always heard about his arm and then when I saw him in person at games guys were stealing easily on him…
I don’t know which game you watched but the kid has a cannon much stronger and accurate than Hedges. Not sure why people are down on him. He’s still very young.
Teams are not running much anymore. Brock, Henderson, Raines, Coleman, Grissom, and guys like that stole more bags in a season than entire teams do today. No team in the NL West had more than 95 SB last season and 3 teams were in the 70s. A cannon arm is just not that important anymore. Pitch framing is. Blocking balls is. A quiet glove and good footwork is. Calling a great game is. In his last start, Austin Hedges had pitchers shake off his pitch 4-5 times in the game. In his last start, Mejia had pitchers shake off his pitch calls more than that per at bat. He is just not on the same wavelength as his pitchers when it comes to calling a game. I agree that Mejia should be given time to improve his defense at catcher. In a couple of years he could improve enough to be considered average behind the plate if he really sets his mind to it. Ideally that time would be in the minors.
Last season Mejia graded out as one of the worst defenders in AAA. Hedges is an exceptional defensive catcher and was one of the best in the majors. Mejia is young and that is why most people felt that the Padres picked up Stewart to backup Hedges in the majors and that Mejia would spend another year in AAA to try to get at least average behind the plate. Mejia has hit so well in spring training that he may have won himself a backup spot behind Hedges. But he is not a competent catcher at this point, just a good hitter.
Saw him live and the opposition thought nothing about running on him. Again, I heard he had a gun and wanted to see it but didn’t.
Best case scenario is to have a catcher who is sneaky good at throwing out baserunners. A guy who can get the job done when he has to but is nondescript enough that baserunners still try to run on him. There is nothing a baserunner can do that helps the opposing pitcher more than running into an out.
Can’t see the Tribe being interested in Mejia. He doesn’t fall into the mold of catcher that Francona prefers.
If I’m the Indians I left Kluber go for anyone that can play the outfield and can at least hit their weight at the MLB level and a top end reliever.
NIck Williams, Pat Neshek or Tommy Hunter, Dylan Cozens, and a bag of balls.
Wouldn’t doubt the Indians do that deal for Kluber considering the ownership group is trying to cut costs at the sacrifice of winning.
They are not sacrificing winning. They’re trying to operate a ball club within certain financial parameters, now and for the future.
Ok Kool Aide drinker.
Steal that from a press release?
I’ve been a fan since the 60’s. I’ve gone through some horrible times with some horrible teams. Now they have finally set themselves up to where they’re at least competitive enough to have a shot at the post season every year. I’ll take that. In fact, I went from hating how they run the organization to respecting how they do it.
There’s lots of teams out there that haven’t been to the post season in awhile, yet we’re becoming regulars. What’s wrong with that? At least it gives them a chance to win a World Series. More than you can say for a lot of other teams.
At the end of the day, the Indians haven’t won jack squat since you’ve become a fan.
You’ve just moved to the stage of acceptance in mediocrity. If not for the AL Central being so laughably bad they might have really started to blow it up once again.
Thank you, Dr Freud. I never realized that’s how I was feeling.
smh……
Trading away your best pitcher usually doesn’t help you win the World Series.
-1
Consistently in the playoffs is excelling. Can’t win it all unless you are there and the Indians are there. Got to give kudos to the FO for keeping them relevant in one of the smallest markets in baseball.
It does if you have an abundance of riches and huge holes elsewhere. They went to extras of game 7 in the 2016 World Series with their rotation totally depleted.
I’d probably want more for Kluber than that. An outfielder, top end reliever and another top prospect would be my floor.
Kluber is too valuable just to give up for anything short than a massive haul. I know their rotation is strong but Kluber is probably their strongest and most consistent pitcher in that rotation.
This falls in line with baseball true conspiracy too. All owners met in basement of Sacramento Dave and Busters. Padres agreed to make one big money bad signing per off season and trade young talent for old talent. Then lose with expensive old team. Then Padres are trumpeted as example for why big money old teams don’t win at next CBA negotiate.
Indians send Baurer to Padre and extension signs at 7/140. Padres send back Mejia and Urias.
Kluber is 33. Not getting a “massive haul”. Sale got a massive haul. Kluber will bring back substantially less than that.
Matt Klentak…..wake up and grab either one of these guys quickly before the Padres steal your man again. The Phillies need pitching. Outside of Nola we are in bad shape with the current starters in the rotation. Bauer or Kluber would be a nice #2 and Keuchel/Arrietta #3/4…… with Pivetta at #5.
a package headed by Williams, VV, and salary relief would be a perfect swap in my mind (as a Philly fan)
Dont know that the Phillies are a good match. Do this trade and I assume the last of the Phillies top 100 prospects, Bohm and Medina would be part of the packageb but the Indians need an oitfielder so maybe Williams? I still dont know if that gets it done.
You expect to get a 200 innings a year perennial Cy Young candidate (he’s won 2) for a 4th OF and some secondary prospects….of which the Indians already have a dozen?
lol
Do you know how to read? You might have noticed my skepticism in this package. I was describing what the best package the Phillies can put together.
But even though I doubt this gets it done, you still overstate your case. Both prospects are top 100. Williams was previously a top 100 prospect.
Lastly, Kluber is almost 33. He has more cy young like years behind him than ahead of him.
But if you need things spelled out, no I dont think that package gets Kluber.
I still think the Indians have the right to ask for a ton for Kluber or Bauer, but I also understand that their price has rightfully gone down a little since the winter. That said, I wouldn’t be opposed to them making a move given the depth they have in the rotation when everyone is healthy.
Plutko would be deserving of a spot in the rotation if need be, and obviously Triston McKenzie isn’t too far away once his back heals up. Salazar could potentially be an option too if they wanted, but it makes way more sense to put him in the bullpen and I’d like to hope they don’t try stretching him out as a starter again.
Obviously there’s no sense in forcing a deal, but if they can get a legitimate package back for the present and the future, there’s no need to hold back either.
If Kershaw struggles to get back I still see the Dodgers take a shot at him mid- season.
I agree, I just can’t see the Indians making a move like that once the season starts
Austin Allen, renfroe, and maybe a relief arm
Or Getty’s
He could be a 5 tool player if he cut down on those strike outs and started to hit for average.
Indians could have taken Gettys in Rule 5
They could have yes. I’m actually shocked no one took him. He killed it in the Australia league and still hitting during the spring.
Gettys is a very overlooked prospect. I think he can be quite good.
Australia…..that hotbed of outstanding baseball players.
He was viewed as a 5 tool player when drafted. He just cannot hit for consistent average. He is a natural center fielder with an arm
Indians have Allen. He’s better. So are 3 other guys.
The Indians have a need in the majors and Gettys is not ready for that. Renfroe plus Allen and a relief arm is a pretty good package. Renfroe was a top 50 prospect and hit 26 HR in just 403 AB with a ..504 slg and .805 OPS last season. He is a good player that would benefit from playing in Cleveland.
Padre fans with ridiculous proposals as usual
That wasn’t even ridiculous
Two weaknesses in Cleveland plus an relief arm
Getty’s was a if they didn’t want froe
That is an ideal package for both teams.
When a team that isn’t rebuilding trades a face of the franchise who isn’t really close to FA, they aren’t looking for a “fair” or “ideal” trade.
Which means they have no reason to trade him and are only in this discussion because SD keeps calling.
Between Paddack allen quantril nix Lauer lucchessi plus Baez Patino working up padres have enough to part with gore for an established ace.
I’d rather they offer the Mets Gore Mejia as the center pieces plus cordero and other prospects to round the package out for Degrom but Gore Cordero Arias Austin Allen and Weathers makes sense for Kluber.
The Mets have banked everything on doing something in the next two years at which time Degrom will reach free agency Wheeler will be gone and they’ ll be on the hook for the last three years of Canos contract. Why would they give up Degrom for a catcher who hasn’t proven he can hit MLB pitching yet a real good pitching “prospect” and lesser players.How does that fit for the Mets. Mind you I really don’t like the Mets but that makes no sense. Especially since the Mets signed Wilson Ramos in the off season
Haha the Pads aren’t trading Gore, and especially not for Kluber. Kluber will bring a decent package but not a top 15/20 headliner like Gore. Age, diminished velocity and modest team control in comparison to Gore… no way
Indians dont have to trade Kluber and Padres need an ace.
Yeah, the pitcher whos under team control for 3 years, at market price, coming off 4 top 3 CYA finishes in 5 years, 5 200 inning seasons straight is not gonna cost an arm and a leg…..RIGGGGGHHHHHHT. Team just give those kinds of player away now a days.
Chris Sale netted the Sox a top 3 overall prospect and another top 100, whos improved his stock. A top 15-20 overall prospect is what it will cost for kluber.
Gore will be current Kluber in 3 years anyway
No, not at his age, and not with his diminished velocity. Gore has twice as much value right now as Kluber, and I’m not a Padres fan. He’s not going to bring an elite pitcher package. He absolutely, positively, nowhere close to Chris Sale value. You won’t get one prospect of Kopech/Moncada value, much less two. Teams don’t pay for past value, they pay for future value, and that doesn’t look nearly as good. Neither team really needs to make the trade, the Padres certainly aren’t going to desperately give up too much for him now.
I think the best Cleveland can do is a player like Francisco Mejia, although obviously he’s not the player because Cleveland was unhappy with him. But that’s the best case scenario for the Indians, getting a very talented but flawed top prospect like Mejia in return.
And because of this, I doubt Cleveland trades him, unless the motivation truly is financial.
I think a lot of you guys are out of your mind. Right now Kluber is an ace with three years control at a decent price, You guys are clearly over valuing prospects, Not every prospect becomes good in the pros, I see where somebody said Gore will be Kluber in 3 years. I guess you’re better at predicting these things then anybody else. A couple of years ago Dansby Swanson was the number one rated player in the minor leagues. He now has a 243 lifetime batting average.. I remember Dylan Bundy was going to be unbelievable. Before that it was Kevin Gausman. How have they done in Baltimore, Then there was Joba Chamberlain for the Yankees. Prospects even highly touted ones don’t always develop the way people think, Kluber is a proven stud
Padres gave kluber the tribe for a box of balls
They got a lot out of him so what’s your point
Yeah but Kluber screams decline, his velocity is down big time, and the 3 years control you’re trading for are his age 33-35 seasons. I wouldn’t be so adamant otherwise. That said, when’t the last time you’ve seen TWO top 50 prospects traded for anyone… anyone? Besides Sale, that may be it recently. You’re going to get one real good, but flawed prospect. I’m not arguing whether I would do it or not, although I wouldn’t. I’m arguing that they won’t. 7 years of Gore at his current value is way > Kluber’s current value for 3, ages 33-35. I’ll bet the moment Gore comes up, Preller says its a non-starter. There’s not going to be a Tatis/Gore/Paddack type prospect in here.
Like most stat-oriented geeks, you don’t know the difference between a thrower and a pitcher.
When you get older and stop with the infatuation, have a critical look at exactly how accurate projection systems prove to be. One can attain the same accuracy by throwing darts against a chart of numbers.
Like stock pickers, these people trumpet most of their wins, admit to a few misses that even the casual follower sees, and withholds or skews the overall results.
I very much do, and was a pitcher myself, albeit not at a very high level. Was a pitchability guy too, low velo, 2 breaking balls, don’t walk guys, don’t give up homers.. Teams trade based upon probability of outcomes, especially smart teams like the Padres. And there is a reason metrically inclined teams usually are the best teams in the league. His probability of positive outcomes is lower than probably any pitcher close to his recent performance in the game.
Chris Sale netted the Sox Moncada, top 3 overall prospect in baseball at the time, and another top 100 prospect.
Kluber easily gets a top 15-20 prospect plus other pieces to round out the deal. Cordero, Austin Allen, and Gabriel Arias arent among the “elite” or 2nd tier prospects San Diego has. In fact, each is blocked in the organization.
“future value” well since you can see Gore won’t flame out and will be elite and kluber is gonna diminish mind posting the next powerball numbers?
Gore is a highly regarded prospect in single a who wasn’t all that good but has tons of upside. Kluber is an established ace/workhorse. If youre goal is to compete the next 3 years Kluber is your guy not Gore. Anderson Espinoza was suppose to be the next Pedro Martinez……look at where he is now. There is no sure thing as a pitching prospect.
Only takes 1 GM to make a stupid deal. Just look at the Pirates in the deal for Archer ( Meadows, Glasnow, and Baz.)
Sounds like someone is bearish on Gore…
1) Anderson Espinoza was 17 years old at the time. Gore isn’t, he’s much closer and much better currently.
2) Gore’s value is not how good he currently is, it’s how good teams project him to be. Different teams will view him different ways, but overall I think you’ll find his perceived value greater than Kluber’s substantially. It appears what you are saying is that because he’s a prospect, he can’t have more value than Kluber. If that were true then all prospects would be available.
3) I don’t think the Padres are intending to contend for 3 years, I think they intend to build a sustained winner. It’s not all in for three years.
4) I think there is a good chance Gore is as or near as valuable as Kluber for even the next three years if he comes up this year. This is the combination of us having a pretty good idea that he has a fairly high floor and a fairly high ceiling, and the likelihood of at least a partial decline over the next three years from Kluber. Plus Gore will have near 4 extra years control. We don’t know Gore for sure, but most of the scouts feel that way, particularly the smart ones, the analytics guys. Not certain, but again, value is about projected talent, not current talent.
5) I know what they got for Sale. Kluber isn’t remotely close to as valuable as Sale. Not even in the same ballpark given his age and diminishing velocity.
6) I actually agree that the other guys you’re talking about are reasonable, that’s not what I’m saying. I do think Kluber can get a top type 15-20 prospect, but zero chance it’s Gore, and I think it has to be someone with a lot higher risk profile. Mejia, had he not cone from Cleveland, would be a perfect example of that type… great hitter, but serious questions about his position. This is the type of high end talent they could get as a headliner. There’s not two headline prospects in any Kluber deal. The Padres would part with an MLB OF though.
Now this is true, Pads aren’t poorly run like the Pirates though.
Bencole, If Meija is the best prospect that Cleveland could get for Kluber then they will just keep Kluber and their will be no trade, That would be the best case scenario in that offer.
Actually, the major projection systems are very accurate, and have proven to be over a ten+ year (that is, not small) sample size.
What you say might be so but I have not seen that in many of the trades and predictions in recent years. With real studs that might be true but just consider: In the Yankees acquisition of Sonny Gray they gave up 3 good prospects Kaprellian Mateo and Fowler. Its not clear any of them will make it in the pros. The Sale trade was called an overwhelming haul by almost everyone but so far the results have been underwhelming. In the RA Dickey trade to Toronto. the highly rated prospect was D’Arnaud the throw in was Thor. Dansby Swanson was a number one prospect in the whole league in the Shelby Miller trade. He now has a 243 lifetime ba. Andujar was never ranked higher then 64 in the prospect list. Do you really believe there are close to 64 players in the minor leagues better then him
@pitches. Kluber is 33. 33 year old Gio Gonzalez just signed a minor league deal. 31 year old Dallas Kuechel, who has a 3.37 ERA over the past 4 seasons, is still unsigned. 30+ year old starters don’t get paid and teams don’t trade elite prospects for them. Straight up Gore may be too much to give up for him. Because of the depth they havee in the OF, the Padres might be willing to send Renfroe, Austin Allen, and a bullpen piece for him, but no top 10 prospect in that organization should be part of any trade for Kluber. let alone Gore.
Verlander is 36 and still pitching well. Kluber won 20 games last year and had an era of 2.89 in the American League. He most certainly should get one or more of your top 10 prospects.
The Indians do not need Austin Allen. We have our own catching prospects. Cleveland also values defense at the catcher position. They will not want Meija back for that reason. That is why they traded him in the first place.
@willy Kluber is 33. Because teams know that players decline in their 30s, no one is going to pay much in terms of prospects for his 33-35 year seasons while he is making $52.5 million for those 3 years.
There were TWO 33 year old pitchers that had a qualifying number of innings last season. Only 4 the season before.
At no point was Swanson the #1 overall rated prospect. He peaked at #4 on the MLB.com list in 2016. He hit .302 in his first taste of the majors that same year. This last season he had a 2.3 WAR and hit .238 while playing exceptional defense. Most teams would call that a success for a 24 year old player.
@hockey Bo Naylor is in rookie ball. He is a decent prospect, but not one that would make the Padres top 10. Haase is not really a prospect. 26 years old and can’t hit. That’s it in the Indians system. Austin Allen has a great bat, he has hit at every level, and is MLB ready. Allen’s defense has improved each of the past 3 minor league seasons and he has done well in spring ball. He quieted his glove, his footwork has improved, and he is blocking well. The Indians do need someone like Allen.
@pitches Chris Sale was 28 when the Red Sox traded for him. In his prime. Kluber is 33. 2 years past prime. All he can do from this point on is decline. His velocity has already started to decline. His ERA, FIP and xFIP declined from his CYA 2017 season. It’s not smart to expect Kluber to maintain his level of past performance for his age 33-35 seasons. Teams have departments of extremely smart people feeding them the data to make those types of decisions. Kluber is not going to get the Indians a return anything close to what the White Sox got for Sale. If a trade is made with the Padres the Indians may get a deal headlined by Renfroe, a former top 50 prospect that hit 26 HR in 403 AB with a .504 slg and .805 OPS in the majors last season. The ancillary pieces are going to be lower value guys. The Indians needs are OF, catcher, bullpen. The Padres can fill all of those and not touch a single top 15 prospect in their system. I am sure that is what they are holding out for and that is the best the Indians can realistically get for a 33 year old Kluber.
Cleveland’s priority #1 with their catchers is defense. According to MLB pipeline Haase rates as a 50 field with a 55 arm. Austin Allen is a 40 field with a 50 arm. As I said before, I don’t think that Ausitn Allen would be of interest to the Indians.
Wins are a team stat. Not a pitching performance stat. Verlander was 35 years old last season. He was the only 35 year old pitcher with 180 IP or 32 plus starts. Kluber had a great ERA that was .60 higher than in 2017. His velocity declined by more than a half mile per hour. His K/9 dropped. FB up in the zone got hit for HR at nearly double the rate of 2017. He showed decline. He will not get better at age 33-35. He will further decline. Will he still be good? Yes. Will he get a Sale type return for the Indians? Not on your life. He is 33 years old.
@hockey I am not with the Padres. What you seem to be missing is that the Padres top 10 prospects would be #1 or #2 in just about every system in baseball. The Indians #3 prospect would not make the Padres top 10, possibly not the top 15. They are that stacked with great prospects. Xavier Edwards, the Padres #14 prospect is more highly regarded than Tyler Freeman, the Indians #3 prospect.
Jim Callis of MLB Pipeline talked highly this spring about the Indians farm system. He commented that they would likely be a top 10 system next year as the strength of the system are players that are just teenagers. This was mentioned on the Indians 30 for 30 show on MLB Network. Koamalu, the Indians are just not going to give Kluber to the Padres. Even at 33 years old, I would rather have Kluber pitching for my team over most other pitchers in baseball. He was 3rd in the AL Cy Young voting. Yes, he will decline as he gets older as we all do. He still will likely be a valuable pitcher that will be a good role model for your younger players. He still has more value than many of the trade proposals made on here. You still have to give something of value to get something of value.
@Koamalu, I am not with the Indians and I am quite aware that the Padres have an excellent, highly rated system. What you have to realize is that there are other teams that can offer Cleveland a package for Kluber such as Atlanta that also has an excellent, highly rated system. San Diego would not be the only tream that would want Kluber or Bauer. With demand, the price will rise.
With that said, I don’t see a trade at this time. From what I have read, these latest rumors came from Preller going back to the Indians, not the other way around.
Also, stop talking down to me. I have been a baseball fan for over 50 years. Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean that I don’t know baseball..
We’ll just disagree about what Kluber is worth in the open market.However about Swanson,say he was a 4.My mistake was he was the number one player drafted that year You can talk WAR all you want he is a good defensive ss who hit 238 last year with few sbs and no power. Most experts don’t see his ba going up much.In todays game a 240 hitting ss without power or speed doesn’t cut it for that highly rated a prospect period
While other teams do also have highly rated farm systems and are capable of putting together a worthy package for Kluber, no one except the Padres seem all that interested right now.
Unless Preller suddenly decides to cave to the Indians FO’s demands I don’t see Kluber being traded right now. And I certainly don’t see him being traded this summer when the Indians are in the middle of a playoff push. Were I Preller, I’d use 2019 to let guys like Paddack, Quantrill and Allen show what they’ve got then if they still think they need a veteran starter from outside the org next winter, make a play for Kluber or Bauer then.
Okay, cool. Enjoy third place in the NL West.
Why would the Padres part with Gore at all, let alone for a starter like Kluber that is 33 years old?
Why would the Mets trade deGrom for prospects when they have 2 years of control of deGrom and are trying to contend in 2019?
None of your post makes sense for either team.
Cue all of the awful trade proposals
Kluber for Myers, Franchy, and Kinsler!
And for some reason Padres fans lead the league in ridiculous ones at that…
Padres should trade Pirella for a muzzle for Polish Hammer. With his consent of course.
Hilarious…
Kluber for Machado.
Beat me to it.
Only if the Padres eat 60% of Machado’s salary….and take on Kuiper.
days like today make me wish jank was healthy and spang were still in the organization. those 2 alone would have help preller to nab bauer already
Ender Inciarte for Corey Kluber straight up. Indians pay ALL of his remaining salary. Braves move Markakis to center (he covers a tremendous amount of ground anyways AND has an OUTSTANDING throwing arm) Pull a Coppy and rush Pache to the majors and put him in right. His defense is still a work in progress anyways so he should be fine in RF. Indians slide Inciarte into center and call up the Pirates about reacquiring Chisenhall to play right. win/win?
Lol.
I think Ender fan had too much green beer over the weekend.
The Indians aren’t taking Wil Myers in a Kluber/Bauer trade!!!!!
The Indians aren’t taking Wil Myers in a Kluber/Bauer trade!!!!!
The Indians aren’t taking Wil Myers in a Kluber/Bauer trade!!!!!
WCR?
I don’t see the Padres passing the Dodgers this year, but the Rockies could go either way, the Giants are rebuilding (even if it’s not their preferred terminology), and the Diamondbacks are likely to finish near the bottom of the division as well, making it an interesting time to bulk up the roster and potentially make their case for an underdog in the Wild Card race (I still see them as a .500 team, but they have some very intriguing young players).
The Indians definitely need some OF help and I think they can get it without detrimentally damaging their 25 man roster. They’ll probably end up the champs in the Central, but complacency won’t serve them well, nor will it please their fans.
Your last sentence is spot on. As an Indians fan, I feel pretty confident they’ll win the division, but that isn’t good enough at this point (especially given the current status of the AL Central where there’s a legitimate possibility 85 wins could be enough). They shouldn’t just be “happy to be here” anymore; this is the time to put the foot on the gas. It’s unfair to ever expect a title or nothing, but I don’t want to see another pathetic first round exit where everyone but Lindor forgets how to hit.
I also don’t think you can discount the impact of the Browns in the city too. Obviously Cleveland has typically been more of a football city anyway, but when it’s mid-March and the vast majority of the city is significantly more excited for football, it’s a problem for the baseball team.
weathers naylor franchy baez
2 top 100 prospects is a big ask all by themselves.
If they were Lefties, Phil’s would be more engaged, but they arent.
pass. No need for that this year. This isn’t a playoff team yet, you don’t need that “one pitcher” a la Justin Verlander to the astros to get them over the hump. They basically need an entire rotation at this point. Pass on Bauer/Kluber
The rest of the central is trying to hand the division to the Indians. The Indians better be careful or they are going to give up that gift.
Their lineup is not as great as a lot of people think. An injury to Lindor (longer term than this one) or Ramirez and their lineup is bottom third of the AL. With them both in it, it’s still not all that impressive.
The rotation is already unlikely to repeat last year’s performance, because it’s hard to repeat historic levels. If they start dismantling the rotation the way they have with their pen and lineup, then there is a decent chance someone else surprises and takes the central.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think they were still among the team leaders in runs last season if I remember correctly. But it’s a very top-heavy lineup (and roster in general), and I completely agree that a prolonged injury to Lindor or Ramirez would be catastrophic. The two of them will carry the lineup, and I see Santana chipping in around 25 homers and 80-90 RBI like usual. After that, I see some upside potential in a few guys, but not much in the way of certainty and there isn’t a lot of depth either.
I disagree that the rotation is destined to regress (assuming they don’t trade anyone away); if anything, they could be even better with a full season of an improved Shane Bieber, because no one else in their rotation did anything that seems overly unsustainable. But yeah, it just doesn’t make sense how little urgency they’ve shown in addressing the bullpen and outfield.
I definitely feel that the Indians see something casual fans don’t and that there’s a chance they find a legitimate contributor or two because they’ve had success like that in the past, but it’s a risky bet.
Kluber’s diminished velocity is the big concern with your rotation. Other than that, you’re right in that their success should be sustainable.
Kluber’s “diminished velocity” had him make 33 starts, pitch 215 innings, K 222 batters, and finish with a 2.89 ERA in the DH American League.
Reading too much Fangraphs will rot your teeth.
Dude, I agree he’s still a good pitcher. But there’s a far better chance than most of the other aces out there that he’s not a great pitcher any more or at least won’t be by the end of this contract. You’re not trading for the controllable 26 year old for 3 years with Kluber, and he won’t net that kind of return. Most of the velo drop happened later in the season, and his swinging strike rate plummeted. When that happens, the majority of pitchers don’t get the same effectiveness out of their curves or sliders. He’s still good, and coming off an (near) ace-caliber season, but no one’s trading for what he has done. They’re trading for his age 33-35 seasons, and he’s showing warning signs that don’t always apply, but they often do. He is valuable, but honestly I think even Syndergaard brings probably twice the haul Kluber does. Kluber probably has less trade value than any recent top 15 pitcher in the game,
That’s essentially spot on, because that’s how trades are being evaluated now. Kluber is still a stud, but as we continue to see those massive amount of innings especially with deep October’s tend to catch up. If you’re attempting to trade for Kluber you’re probably attempting to limit his innings and pull the reigns to hopefully allow his stuff to play up when it matters. Velocity isn’t necessarily the end all be all, but in today’s game it is a premium in the postseason. And there is the effective velocity pitchers have to adjust to late in their career in terms of separation in breaking balls/fbs. Kluber requires a haul, that much is non debatable. But the type of hall is dependent upon how teams view him going forward from age 33-35, not what he was. Especially seeing as guys who lose velocity don’t tend to regain it as those stressful innings pile up regardless of being a late bloomer or not. Yes there will always be exceptions to the rule, Verlander, but certain red flags depressed the potential package.
Indians were probably hoping for a Sale type return, but there were multiple factors involved as to why it was unrealistic. Makes sense that they were with their depth/needs trying to cash in a year to early rather than late. It’s an interesting topic, as the Indians completely regain leverage at the deadline if he returns to form. The guy is a stud and has been a complete workhorse, there’s no denying that in any sense. I just don’t think he’s going to return the close to the same package as Sale, and I’m sure the package would most likely outrage fans.
Are you really suggesting that Kipnis isn’t a stud?
Best news I’ve heard since the Manny became a San Diego Padre. Bring Kluber back to this team.
I think the Indians should have interest in a deal starting with Gore, they will probably want Reyes or Cordero, and all three of those guys make me think twice about making any deal.
Eh pass on a trade for now. Rather see the Pads acquire Keuchel.
Get Keuchel to stabilize the rotation. Supplement the rotation with young talent and let the season play out.
Let Renfroe build value. Hesitant to trade Cordero and certainly not Gore or Weathers.
Don’t give these guys away. Let teams come calling Preller. This organization has the pitching within its ranks.
No not a lefty
The starting rotation already gots 4
Seems like the Padres’ prospect depth would better serve them on hitters. Pitchers over perform there don’t they? Scrap heap guys can be serviceable in that park.
ducksnort69, I agree that scrap-heap pitchers can be serviceable at Petco but do you really want to depend on that? If the Padres can get either Kluber or Bauer without giving up any of their top five or so prospects then I see it as a major coup for the Padres. they are in dire need of veteran established SP’s IMO. At least one of Kluber or Bauer would be major for the Padres. The fan base would get even more excited.
If you think they’d get either one without giving up any of their top 5 prospects, you’re dreaming.
If MLBPipeline is any indication, the Padres’ top 5 prospects would all be #1 in the Indians organization, their #6 and 7 prospects would both be #2 and then #8-10 and possibly one or two after that would be #3.
Just something to think about bro…
I do think Indians fans are going to be very disappointed with the return for Kluber if he’s traded.
The Padres #14 would probably be #3 in the Indians organization.
Were I Cleveland, I would trade the entire farm for some established stars with two more years of control at positions of need and go all in on 2019 and 2020. Now is not the time for half-measures. The division is theirs to lose this year and probably next year but getting bounced in the first round isn’t going to cut it anymore.
Padres Please do add another pitcher. You may have promising rookies, but not that promising lol. Besides, they need more experience before becoming potential top of the line starters, even if you add at least 1, doesnt even have to be Kluber quality since that would require a lot in return, that would be great. Pads are seemingly hoping that some of their rookies shine or veterans have bounceback years but if you look at the rotation right now, its just too much risk all at once. And preferably some team control, not just 1 year. To say “we feel good about our rotation” is complete bs and needs some definite work.
Humor me on this 3 for 2 trade and tell me if you think that it would be fair.
Fernando Tatis Jr. and Franmeil Reyes and Cal Quantril, in return for Kluber and Bauer.
Yes, you are acquiring two top pitchers at reasonable prices, but you are getting back a top two prospect in all of baseball, a serviceable #5 starter by next year, and an corner outfielder with some potential.
Why it works – Indians cut salary and are unlikely to make it past Red Sox Yankees and Astros this year.
Padres become the best team in the NL overnight. Kluber, Bauer, Luch, Padd, Strahm, Yates, with Mejia, Hosner, Kinsler, Urias, Machado, Myers, Renfroe, Margot and Cordero. Padres still have Gore and Morejon so they can part with Quantrill.
1. Hell no
2. Indians don’t need to cut salary
Are you saying my proposal is unfair, or just that you think neither team should go in that direction, even if it is balanced?
I guess both are true
Anyone else but tatis I’m your trade proposal
Yeah, Pads aren’t trading Tatis for anyone. But yeah, Cleveland is talking about Kluber to cut salary. That’s the whole point.
If they trade Kluber his production will just have to replaced. And doing that will cost a lot more than whatever they are paying him.
If Indians trade Kluber, the idea is to cut salary and so they only replace him with an inferior arm.
And Gore, Morejon and Quantrill combined might be enough for just Kluber, but I think the young arms are more needed for future Padres’ teams that just Tatis Jr.
Maybe the Padres just stand pat, win 85 games, and hope that in a couple years the kids can make them better. Or maybe they go bold, trade Tatis, and could be a 95 win team in 2019.
And give up on a generational talent in favor of a 2-3 year window? I’m gonna go with “no.”
I am definitely not saying that you are wrong. But a prospect is a prospect. Will Tatis Jr. be better than Javier Baez, who knows? And the Cubs would trade Baez for both Bauer and Kluber I suspect.
I don’t think the Cubs do that and they are in a better position for such a move than SD. Like, a lot better.
They don’t have to replace a #1 with a #1 arm, but luckily for them they actually have Bauer and Carrasco as guys that could be aces. If they trade Kluber everybody slides up one slot in the rotation they will be just fine.
Then they have no depth. If any one of those other guys gets injured or struggles they’re gonna wish they still had Kluber.
They went to game 7 of the World Series with nobody left in the rotation.
It sure helped having Miller for multi-inning stints. But the Red Sox, Yankees and Astros have all improved since then.
#1 Cleveland already cut the needed salary and have stated that salary relief would not be part of a trade of a pitcher. #2 From what I have read is that Preller contacted Cleveland not Cleveland contacting them. The Indians need a solid package to make a deal, not some of the poor ones proposed here. Verlander is 36 and he hasn’t diminished much.
As a comparison, Chris Sale went to the Red Sox in a blockbuster deal that sent Yoan Moncada, a consensus top 2 MLB prospect, and three other prospects to the White Sox.
Just give the young guys a shot and then if they still think they need to add a starter from outside the org next offseason, trade for Kluber or Bauer then. Their trade values will be lower as they move closer to free agency and it’s not like CLE is about to trade them to someone else if the Padres don’t swing a trade now.
Although to be perfectly honest my preference would be for the Padres to go after Cole or Wheeler next offseason.
You know, Keuchel is still out there, and he wouldn’t cost you any prospects.
He costs the Padres a draft pick because Houston gave him a QO; that’s a significant loss to the Padres, who have been building through the draft very well since Preller took over. There is a date in-season after which the draft-pick penalty for signing a player who had received a QO goes away, but I don’t think it’s until May or June.
QO goes away after the draft
Kluber to Reds for Schebler, DeSclafani, and one of Trammell/Ervin.. and luckily I use the app so I won’t see the hailstorm of downvotes
DeSclafani has less club control remaining than Kluber. Indians would have no interest in him if they trade Kluber.
Why would Cleveland want a 3-4th outfielder in Schebler and a 5th starter on an average at best staff for Kluber. I think you too had too much green beer last weekend.
I could see the Orioles trading Cobb to the Padres and no asking a lot in return. Take his salary and send back Meyers?
You know Spring Training has gone on too long once we’re discussing trades between the Friars and the Tribe.
PLAY BALL!
And this is coming from a Padres and Indians fan.
Some of us (most likely yourself included) can multitask and watch Spring Training games and post entries during the breaks/commercials. But, yes, me, too, looking forward to start of season and Opening Day! Indians have a good shot at winning the weakest division in baseball. Padres will be an exciting team, but with their starting rotation, it is hard for me to see them winning 80+ games even if Machado, Renfroe, Myers and Reyes all hit 30 home runs each.
Why not sign a front line starter to bring a veteran presence to the young pitchers? Just as the Pads have brought in Kinzler and Machado for their talented infielders, a Keuchel or Kluber could serve the same purpose along with adding a few wins in the win column to keep us fans interested and excited. To be honest, our young talent is not going to win us alot of games this year. With only a few exceptions, I can’t say that the pitching prospects they brought up this spring training looked promising. I say sign a veteran pitcher and let’s get this party started.
Keuchel would be a good signing, but at some point money becomes an issue. Seems like Gio Gonzalez would have been a good get at the Yankees’ price. Easy to be an armchair quarterback when the Padres have made so many other good moves, but Hosmer is still hard to fathom. They have plenty of league average outfielders so Myers at 1B was as good as Hosmer at 1B. You don’t pay $100+ million for a clubhouse presence and Machado found $300 million to be bait enough. Center depth with Margot Cordero and Jankowski. Renfroe and Reyes as starting corners if Myers at 1B. And Hosmer’s cash for two frontline starters. But maybe the plan is to be a sub 0.500 team until around 2021 when hopefully Gore, Morejon, Quantrill, Baez, Allen and Paddack are the rotation with Logan and Espinoza are depth. But that is asking a lot from the pitching prospects.
Wil Myers looks really really bad….
Stop the nonsense already SD! Sign Keuchel for 3 years to guide this young pitching staff
Bauer and Machado spells a recipe of disaster in the same club house. Kluber is not worth the cost of acquiring. Grab the guy(keuchel)that’s on a silver platter