This season has been a horror show for the Mets, who entered the campaign with designs on a playoff berth but have stumbled to a 39-48 record thus far. With the July 31 trade deadline just over three weeks away, the Brodie Van Wagenen-led club looks like a surefire seller. However, the Mets have told other teams they’re still in wait-and-see mode when it comes to the deadline, Buster Olney of ESPN tweets.
The Mets have shown no real life since a decent early start to the season. As lousy as they’ve been over the past couple months, though, the Mets still aren’t completely dead in the National League playoff race. While New York is 12 1/2 games back of Atlanta in the NL East, it’s a more manageable 6 1/2 out of a wild-card spot. That’s not an insurmountable total with three months remaining on the schedule. However, as the NL’s second-worst team, it’s going to be a massive challenge for the Mets to hop over 10 clubs with superior records in order to earn a playoff spot.
The greater likelihood is the Mets will indeed wind up selling off select veterans by the end of the month. Doing so would enable the team to somewhat improve a farm system that’s lacking – especially after the Mets traded top 100 prospects Jarred Kelenic and Justin Dunn to the Mariners in a winter deal for Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz. Three months into the season, the disappointing performances of Cano and Diaz are among the reasons the Mets are in this unfavorable position.
There are two obvious trade chips on the Mets in right-hander Zack Wheeler and third baseman Todd Frazier, both impending free agents. Multiple teams have already shown interest in Wheeler, arguably the best rental starter who could change hands this month. Lefty Jason Vargas has perhaps pitched his way onto starter-needy teams’ radars, meanwhile, and there has been speculation about the Mets trying to move catcher Wilson Ramos. They may have buyers’ remorse in the first season of Ramos’ two-year, $19MM contract.
Those contending Mets. Lel.
I’m in the minority but their farm is only “lacking” in the pitching department. Every day players have recently done well and my guess is players that were stuck behind McNeil, Alonso, Smith et al. will do fine if given an opportunity. Cano can’t be moved but they should give others a shot and rid the roster of Frazier, Hechevarria, Legares and even Conforto. By including.Conforto whose value is not as great as fans might think, they might though get a prospect back that could help in the future. Maybe even package some with Wheeler or Thor to create a package like the Yankees got from the White Sox a few years back. Any return will be a gamble as none of the above will bring a stud back in return. Sorry Mets fans but that includes the pitchers. Thor is so inconsistent that he may be favorably compared to former Red Sox pitcher Joe Kelly. Great power arm but with it he brings a lot of frustrations. Favorably compared but compared nonetheless. In the past, I never would have even thought of the two as a comparison.
You need to brush up on your trades.
Yanks didn’t get prospects from the white Sox.
Yanks sent Rutherford, Clarkin,clippard and Polo for Todd Frazier, Robertson and Kahnle. You must be thinking of Miller and Chapman trades
You misread my post. They got multiple valuable but not superstar players in one trade for prospects not counting Clippard. Regardless of how it worked out for Chicago, they got prospects back.
U keep Degrom, Alonso, McNeil. Why move Conforto, Thor n Diaz. There still under control. Next summer trade Thor because he will be pitching for a new contract (the size of Degrom) and the Mets won’t pay him.
Send Ramos and Frazier to Padres for Hunter Renfroe and Kirby Yates. Padres have been looking to unload both. Send Wheeler and Lagares to Twins for their top catching prospect n a AA Pitching prospect.
Lol
I remember when some people said the Mets robbed the Mariners. How is that working out guys. Cano is done only their to collect that huge paycheck. Diaz might bounce back but I bet he misses Safeco field. And for a pitcher to do worst going from the AL to the NL not a good sign. Hey at least you guys got those amazing aces right. If they could ever last a full season with out getting hurt.
Mets o Mets I still remember you guys saying you had a dynasty team after losing that world series the best pitching ever. What happened…
They went back to being the Mets.
Yet again, who said this? No one.
I thought everyone said that. All the closet mets fans. It was a big deal.
im not gonna say i remember hearing it, but it sounds plenty plausible.
They disappeared in mid May and have been noticeable this holiday weekend wearing green helmets.
Those on here that are still defending it are in deep denial and desperately in need of therapy.
Todd Frazier to the Rangers. 3B has been a weak spot without Beltre.
Stop pondering and sell. You don’t want to be the Tigers.
Tigers are in the early stages of a rebuild, not trading Top 100 guys for Robinson Cano.
The Mets are snaked bit….maybe they should consult with their investment banker Bernie Madoff.
That was over ten years ago…proof how inept the Wilpon’s are that they can’t right their finances after milking Mets fans for a decade.
That was over ten years ago…proof how inept the Wilpon’s are that they can’t right their finances after milking Mets fans for a decade.
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That seems to be a problem in NY when rich dads give their sons a sports team for their birthday. At least they didn’t Dolanize the team.
Yet.
Everyone said during the offseason that the Mets should have rebuilt and sell off assets like Wheeler and Syndergaard. But Van Wagenen sold Wilpon a bill of goods and made him think they could contend. So they spend big on Ramos and made that backbreaking trade for Cano and giving away their top prospect in Jarred Kelenic for Diaz who isn’t playing at the nearly impossible level he did last year.
So now the Mets have added a lot of dead money gutted the farm system and are still in 4th place. Thor and Wheeler have lost a lot of value and if it wasnt for Alonso they would have nothing to really cheer for.
The way I heard the story the Wilpons were looking for a GM who felt like the Mets could win and not have to rebuild.
Yeah Salcapmyth has it right per reports
Then the Wilpon’s were successful in finding what they were looking for.
“Everyone said during the offseason that the Mets should have rebuilt and sell off assets like Wheeler and Syndergaard. ”
I couldn’t disagree more. They had the rotation to be one of the best teams in BB. With a market as big as NY, they badly needed to add salary, not tank. Their mistake, imvho, was trying to gt a little cheap, and trading prospect(s) for what they needed, instead of simply buying it on the open market.
And a lot of bad execution. Signing Lowrie for $10M, to back up McNeil, who himself is a backup, was a waste of money. Trading for a 36 y.o. Cano, just after getting busted for PEDs, was a mistake.
All these moves worked out worse than they should have, but the NYMs should’ve been adding salary years ago.
Every account I’ve read says the Wilpons have no money to add salary because they lost just about everything to Madoff. They’re apparently having to operate the team on a cash-and-carry basis. TV money has to be keeping them afloat now.
Small sample size, but BVW (like Dave Stewart before him) suggests former agents may be lousy running front offices because they can’t get past their own BS about how valuable players really are.
The Mets should demand high returns but sell, sell, sell and plan to compete again after restocking the farm.
I don’t know where you read what you read but from what I hear living here in NY is that there is a strong sense they actually profited off the Madoff scheme.
The Mets problem is the money owed for their new stadium. Just look at the insurance money collected by the Wilson’s for Cespedas & Wright and that money not reinvested into the team. That just shows you how cheap they are.
Brodie messed up
LaMeiu > Lowrie
Ottovino > Familia
Grandal > Ramos
Also you can’t have a team full of corner OFers & 3rd baseman.
Also continuing to bat Cano 3rd
Hey joe-the Mets HOF rotation was a one year blip in 2015 season. Since then rarely have two been good in the same season. So these misdescriptions only sound good.
Hey joe-the Mets HOF rotation was a one year blip in 2015 season. Since then rarely have two been good in the same season. So these misdescriptions only sound good.
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2018 ERAs
1.70
3.31
3.03
3.77
5.77
Vargas was the only weak link, and he’s pitched well.
JoeBrady did you just call McNeil a backup?
Sure, the way it was set up. It was going to be Alonso-Cano-Rosario-Frazier, with McNeil backing up everywhere on the diamond.
That rotation everyone keeps talking about just can’t seem to get it together other than de Grom. After several years of watching these guys, I’m really starting to appreciate something I heard Davey Johnson say this spring on a radio interview: player makeup counts more than talent. I thought at the time he just sounded like an old curmudgeon who was romanticizing the past. But at this point, I think you can say that Wheeler, Thor, and Matz all lack the makeup to be dominating pitchers. You have to look at makeup as just as important as talent. To me it looks they suffer from pure immaturity. Will they ever grow up? Who knows, but most of us are way tired of waiting.
spending on Ramos was not a bad idea. its not like he was blocking anyone of value, and would, if healthy, be a good trade chip.
I agree. His catching skills are not the best, but put a runner in scoring position and he seems to be able to focus and drive him home. Bases empty, meh.
I agree. Ramos has been a solid pickup. You compare him to other catchers he’s right up there with RBI’s. He for sure has not been the reason the Mets are a disaster. What is really frustrating is when they put out the offensive lineup like they did all Phillies series they have a formidable lineup from 1-8. I mean even the pitchers are hitting. Then the bullpen comes into play or The starting staff just finds a way to be mediocre. This bullpen is a complete embarrassment. No lead is ever safe. I mean Degrom feels like he has to throw 9 innings every time.
McNeil has been amazing. That dude can fall out of bed into 3 hits in a game. And the part that pisses me off is that McNeil and Alonso and Degrom seem like the only players that are still playing with heart. I know there is moments from other players that play with it. But for the most part them 3 is the only ones I see it every game they play. Cano could careless if the Mets are winning or losing. And for the love of all that is holy can we please just get rid of Familia!! I literally turn the tv off when he comes in. As bad as the Cano pick up is Familia is equally terrible. He can come in with a 7 run lead and still make it a nail brighter. Disaster!
McNeil, too.
The Mets are just what the Mariners would be had they chosen not to rebuild. So maybe the hate on Jerry Dipoto should stop a little.
I think DiPoto had a lot of guts to make the decision to rebuild. A skin deep evaluation may have lead everyone to think that the Mariners are just a small step away from competing but then you have no reason to believe Cano or Diaz would have been better with the Mariners.
Paxton has been completely mediocre for the Yankees, Haniger is injured, Segura has been okay leaving really only Nelson Cruz who is still humming right along. He couldnt have carried the team that far though. Had DiPoto not rebuilt there is no way they wouldnt still be under 500.
Yea they should have traded Haniger. And they could have gotten a better return than the Marlins did for JTR.
Diaz is just the latest example of why teams shouldn’t invest heavily in one relief pitcher. They are just to volatile.
I’ve said it before but a reliever is just a failed starter. Either durability, stamina, stuff, or repertoire keeps them from being successful multiple times through the order. It’s just a matter of time until they lose it, Some guys don’t for a long time, but eventually the league catches up. Look at the postseason performance of closers when teams see them a few times in a row.
the difference here is that Diaz isnt just any relief pitcher. he was probably the second best RP im baseball last year and was just 24. he has been pretty strong in his previous seasons too. its fair to point to volatility, but Diaz’s stuff and prior track record were pretty darn good. add in the fact that he has plenty of control left, and its easy to bet on a bounceback. yes relievers are volatile, but at the same time look at plenty of teams in recent years and tell me they wouldnt have wanted a guy like what Diaz was known to be to open the season. maybe he has a down year this season, but he could very well make up for it next year. (when the Mets may actually have a chance to contend) who knows, maybe its the Ramos effect the rest of the staff is feeling.
Diaz record isnt as spotless as you think. His 2017 production isnt so dominant. His 3.27 ERA is pretty close to average for a relief pitcher and his 4.02 FIP is pointing to some amount of fortune.
There are examples of relievers that have had long periods of success but predicting that after just 1 season of real dominance is hazardous.
I hope the Mets win 8 of their next 12.
Theyll still be 5 under and thinking about actual trading prospects.
Clueless organization
I hope the Mets win 8 of their next 12.
Theyll still be 5 under and thinking about actual trading prospects.
Clueless organization
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If the RS tank, and I figure that is about 50/50, the NYMs are the second team I’d call after the Padres. They need a RH CF. Then convince Wagener that Betts can be re-signed, become the face of the NYMs, etc….
Doubtful prediction.
The Mets need to rebuild and trade Degrom to the Braves for Drew Waters, Kyle Wright, and Johan Camargo.
The Braves aren’t the Mets. For DeGrom, a 31 year old pitcher whose ERA has nearly doubled from last season and is owed $128.5M over the next 4 years, the Braves might give up Kolby Allard, Alex Jackson, and a player to be named later.
It’s not hard to double your ERA and still be the ace when your ERA was 1.70 last year. DeGrom isn’t going anywhere.
DeGrom isn’t going anywhere.
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And that’s the problem. Mets are far removed from 2015 and really have no realistic chance at improving on this season. The Canó deal was brutal, not as bad as Bobby Bonilla, but a step in the wrong direction. Freshman manager should have been talking about a three-year retooling / rehab plan, not a win-now promise. As part of that, DeGrom and Syndergaard should have been salable assets.
That’s what happens when you hire a commission sales guy to be GM and all he knows about is making players sound more attractive than they are.
This guy knows nothing about running an organization, scouting, player development or the next dozen qualities needed.
He did have a handsome, confident look in the camera.
That one is not happening. They are not selling off deGrom. As bad as they’ve been, they’re not going to blow up the future of the team. Their record could easily be reversed had their bullpen not blown 20+ saves this season (not all on Diaz; it’s any lead after the 6th). Even getting half of those back would’ve had them in striking distance of Atlanta.
I do expect them to try to move their expiring contracts to get something for them. Wheeler and Frazier will probably be moved. Vargas’s play has improved greatly, but his foolish behavior in reaction to that reporter may have made most starter needy teams think twice. Lagares likely won’t draw interest. The younger players I could see them being open to move are Dom Smith and Amed Rosario since current and future stars are or will be ahead of them on the depth chart. All three all-stars will stay put.
The one I could see them trading to Atlanta is Wheeler since that’s his hometown team. He might be open to signing there long term.
Rosario should go. Not sure if anyone would value him, but i have had enough of his game.
The Mets should sell anyone that a team wants besides McNeil, Alonso, & deGrom.
Those are the only attractive players Oxford.
So Thor, Confroto, Wheeler, Diaz, Lugo, Vargas, and Dom Smith aren’t interesting at all?
Diaz would be a good fit for Twins, but how much would he cost??
Royce Lewis or Alex kierloff
Pondering?
Oh right, the Mets decided to contend this year despite all the warning signs. They had a chance to fleece a team dealing DeGrom. Syndergaard still had appeal. Wheeler would have garnered a nice return.
Nope, gotta go trade for a fading mid-30’s second baseman with a PED pop last season. Nope, gotta go hire DeGrom’s agent to run the Mets. No conflict whatsoever. Hand deliver an extension to his former employer and everyone wins. Except Mets fan.
A team that could have been ready to compete in 2020 will now have to wait much longer. This situation is a total mess.
It is and it isn’t a mess, at least long term. When you’ve blown over 20 saves from leads in the 7th inning on, that means you easily could have flipped the script with competent coaching and bullpen play.
It’s more than just blown saves. 21 blown opportunities is the norm for teams with a bad bullpen or just bad teams in-general.
Boston’s blow 18. Atlanta 16. Nationals 17. San Diego 16. Jokeland 16. It’s more than the bullpen issues and coaching.
The mess is something I didn’t say; to allow the agent of a current player to be the GM means there is a story there, and it’s not good for the Mets. Huge conflict of interest and MLB shouldn’t have allowed it.
You are right, Reaper—MLB should not have allowed if. Just like the MLB should not have allowed the Wilpon’s to continue to own the club after the Madoff failure.
The universal solution is staring everyone in the face. It’s time for NL baseball fans in NYC to take control and boycott the Mets.
No tickets, no SNY.
That includes no tv watching.
Are you giving any more money to the Wilpon’s Reaper, or are you joining the boycott?
I’m not a Mets fan Fits. Since I’ve never been to Citi Field or Shea I’d say I’ve contributed what they’ve earned.
Anyone who thinks the Mets don’t need to rebuild, and rebuild now, is drinking too much of Brady’s Kool-Aid. Their biggest problem is guys like Wheeler and Thor aren’t gonna fetch as much now as they might have in this past off-season. They should get whatever they can for guys like Frazier, Ramos, Lagares (Yuck!) and a few others. Mets are stuck with Cano. Bad move by Brady, there.
I could see next year’s outfield lining up with D. Smith, Nimmo and Conforto. Got Alonso at 1B and McNeill and Rosario at 2B and SS, respectively. Let Nido be the primary catcher. What he can’t do with the bat he makes up for with game calling, pitch framing and defense.
That leaves an empty spot at 3B, but 3B, save for Wright in his prime, has been a black hole for the Mets since Day 1 of their existence. But Mets aren’t making the playoffs this year, so play the youngsters you have; trade off the vets and get ready for 2020.
Please take Rosario off of the Mets hands.
Anyone who thinks the Mets don’t need to rebuild, and rebuild now, is drinking too much of Brady’s Kool-Aid.
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Brady’s not a NYM fan. But with a good rotation (#4 in 2018, virtually tied for #2), you don’t dismantle that rotation, especially in NYC. Like it or not, mega-markets demand a lot of spending.
One of the things that kinda suck about being in the east in recent years, is the teams that are terrible and good trade partners seem to always be in that division. So the braves have this uphill battle to start to make any deal happen. Miami for example demands a kings ransom for every possible trade we inquire about, but this outside the division the basically give away there superstars for free
@bravesfan, a reliable sports source in Atlanta said a few days ago that the Marlins have said they would take 2 Braves pitchers out of Wilson, Gohara and Ynoa for Caleb Smith. I would tell them they can have Wilson and Ynoa for Smith and hang on to Gohara at least through spring training next year. If Gohara can get healthy he has the potential to be probably a #2 or #3 starter but Wilson I don’t think would ever be above a 4 and I’m not sure about Ynoa’s potential yet. It was also said here on trade rumors last week the Marlins said all of their young starters are available and Yamamota looked awesome last night and has in 5 of 5 starts.
#1 Priority – DUMP THE LOSER MATZ. He stinks up this rotation year after year. They need to get rid of as many Losers off their roster as soon as possible. Unfortunately I see no indication BVW is the person to do it correctly.
Matz is a loser? Is he in trouble legally or did he beat a woman tha I missed? No, he’s a major league ball player. I’m curious what you’ve done with your life that’s SO superior to Matz that he’s that far beneath you???
Sure, the Mets probably should deal Matz at some point, but not anytime soon; his stock is too low for what he’s capable of. How does next season’s deadline sound??
If they are “losers” why would anyone want them?
Time for the Mets to go in a different direction, time to rebuild. Trading deGrom and Thor would help, I would put them both out there now and see what they can get. The Mets also have the problem of being compared to the Yanks,
Hey Slider. You ignored the major Mets’ problem; the Wilpon’s ownership. Nothing will change until they fold their cards and stop bluffing that they care about the team or the fans.
They have been robbing fans for decades.
Alonso and McNeil are great to watch, but Cespedes puts a bad taste in your mouth.
We already traded the “The Franchise” and Doc Gooden ruined his Met career. They should have had a babysitter for him. That’s besides the point. Never trade Degrom! BVW gets 1 more year to try being a GM but he can make a strong move now. Fire Callaway during the All Star break and bring in Girardi.
Since the Mets post season run they’ve been saying “we’re going to go for it again this season” and then by mid season an article like this always comes along. They should have sold a while back imo. None of the starting pitching is getting any younger. And they’ve never shown a willingness to spend or make a trade that makes you go “oh, that’s a great add, he’s really going to help this team”. No. They bargain bin shop and make puzzling trades. Even if the Cano trade was centered around Diaz, did anyone really believe they were on bullpen piece away from making it?
The Mets need to operate more like a small market team since they aren’t willing to spend the money to supplement good players in at positions of need. Even if they aren’t a small market team. Which makes me believe they should have sold a year or two ago.
Brodie for baseballs.
Mets get what they deserve hiring an agent as the GM. They won’t contend until he is out.
I am the expert. No more need for discussion! Here’s the deal with the Mets.
They are not yet out of this thing, but, yes, they need a small miracle and some breaks.
Offense: there is enough offense here to compete, but, it needs to be augmented with a “Donn Clendenon” type of outfield bat. (Do you like the reference to 1969?!) If Cano doesn’t wake up FAST, he’s got to sit. I don’t care how much money he’s making. (Could we find a team foolish enough to take him off our hands?) McNeil needs to be at second and the new bat goes in outfield. There is not much else we can do.
Pitching: trying to keep this brief…I am PRAYING the return of Familia, Wilson and Avilan at least calms the situation in the bullpen. But, they must be healthy. It’s paper thin out there. The Mets didn’t do enough in the off season to strengthen the pen. If they could pick up an arm later this month, they should. The starters are the starters. They have underachieved, but most teams would love to have our starting pitching problem.
So, I think the Mets can climb back in this because if you look at the teams ahead of them in the wild card (everyone except the Marlins), almost all of them are vulnerable in ways not dissimilar to the Mets. Sorry, the Mets are better than the Giants, Reds and Pirates. The Cardinals, Diamondbacks and Padres do not scare me. NEITHER DO THE PHILLIES, NATIONALS OR CUBS. Remember when the Nationals were eleven games under .500 earlier this year? They are four games over now and leading the wild card pack. If they can, we can.
If they crap out, and I am wrong: they should trade Frazier and maybe Vargas. As for Wheeler, they should only trade him if they are going to get a couple of can’t miss prospects who are close to major league ready. I would also make that trade with the idea of resigning Wheeler in the off season. Our starting pitching isn’t perfect, but, I’d rather have it than not in 2020.
He is preller 2.0
lol
You should have sold in the offseason
Not sure how the Ramos signing equates to buyers remorse. He’s in the top 5 at his position in average, OPS, SLG, OBP and RBI. His defense is not great but he’s always been somewhat limited in that category.
He would be a good fit on an AL team as he could also slot in as a DH.
theres nothing to ponder..team stinks. get rid of the gaebage!!!!!
The Mets should trade degroom to the Yankees or another high bidder that would guarantee his sixth year. From the Yankees they could ask for Florial, and Frazier, a near ready starter or two and a lottery player or two. The Yankees would be crazy not to do it. They would finally have the ace they haven’t had in a long time and would match up against any team and in my opinion even overtake the Dodgers chances of winning the WS this year and years to come.
Think degroom, Severino, Paxton, Tanaka, CC, Happ, German. All of a sudden that’s a formidable staff. Even if Sevy doesn’t make it back this year.
Plus degroom would stop being wasted on the Mets moving across town not so bad. Family probably doesn’t need to move. The Mets improve with players like Florial and Frazier giving them a real centerfielder and left fielder. Plus two good pitching prospects and a lottery ticket or two. Crazy for both teams not to do it.