Considering the bevy of rumors linking Marcus Stroman to the Yankees before July’s trade deadline, it wasn’t a surprise rebuilding Toronto sent the right-hander to New York during the summer. It was, however, unexpected that Stroman ended up with the Mets instead of the Yankees. It turns out the Yankees’ interest in Stroman – although real – wasn’t especially high, general manager Brian Cashman reveals to Yahoo Sports’ Wallace Matthews in a quality piece profiling the longtime executive.
“We were interested in Stroman but we didn’t think he would be a difference-maker,” Cashman said. “We felt he would be in our bullpen in the postseason.”
That’s an eyebrow-raising quote in regards to Stroman, who was plenty effective in the Yankees’ division – the American League East – from 2014-18. Despite Stroman’s successful track record, his remaining year and a half of affordable team control and the Yankees’ apparent need for starters, they held firm when the Jays “were demanding” outfielder Clint Frazier in a package for the hurler, Matthews reports. Frazier drew plenty of rumored interest from around the league before the deadline, at which point he was languishing in the minors, but he stayed put. While Frazier’s latest recall didn’t come until rosters expanded at the beginning of this month, he has picked up some starts of late as the Yankees’ outfield deals with injuries to Aaron Hicks and Mike Tauchman.
Whether the Yankees were right to seemingly prioritize Frazier over Stroman is up for debate. No matter which side you’re on there, it’s hard to have complete confidence in the AL East winners’ rotation – something they didn’t address at the deadline – as the playoffs approach. The Yankees just lost Domingo German for the season because of a domestic violence investigation (though Cashman obviously couldn’t have foreseen that), and CC Sabathia will end his illustrious career in the bullpen after a rough, injury-plagued regular season as a starter. Sabathia’s fellow aged lefty, J.A. Happ, has joined him in struggling for most of this year, but Happ has rounded back to form lately. Even better than Happ’s recent success? Ace Luis Severino just debuted last week after a season-long battle with injuries, and James Paxton has been on a roll since mid-August.
In the event the Yankees need four starters in a postseason series, Severino, Paxton, Masahiro Tanaka (who hasn’t been great in 2019) and Happ will present their four best traditional options. While there’s a strong case that Stroman’s preferable to at least one member of that quartet, the Yankees didn’t regard him as enough of an upgrade to surrender significant young talent for him over the summer.
Kind of agree with him sentiment. And remember that they just spent a bunch on Happ and still owe Tanaka a lot and so anyone usurping the would have to be really significantly better and Stroman is arguably not.
Don’t you think Cashman was an idiot for extending Sabathia and acquiring Stanton for so long at such a high cost? Not to mention the complete lunacy that must have been involved in the Ellisbury deal?
Considering Stanton will opt out next year, CC wasn’t extended he signed a one year deal
There’s not a chance that Stanton opts out. He would get nowhere close to what he’s getting now. That is a crazy comment.
Statistically, the odds of him opting out are the same as him flying to Mars on a tricycle.
Seriously. There’s no way he’d get 7/$218MM at age 31 if he opted out after 2020.
Made me chuckle.
Keep dreaming dude! Zero chance Stanton opts our!
No way he opts out man…
Well buckO lets not give Cash credit for all of the amazing moves he has made. As an angry Yankee hater you bring up the shortfall of Stanton. Is it because your preseason angry rants about not signing Manny Machado and Harper didn’t please you?
Go pound sand as we move towards #28
Ellsbury was a superstar when he signed with NY no one could have predicted his injuries
No one that the Ellsbury signing made sense. No one, that is, except for Cashman. It was widely criticized at the time.
Ellsbury had exactly one “superstar” season (2011) with Boston,
And he disappeared in September that year, and the Red Sox had a massive collapse that month. Ellsbury had five big months, April – August 2011.
Ellsbury missed significant time at least twice in Boston. Being injury prone should be a surprise to nobody.
Signing Ellsbury was a rivalry related move and more of jockeying for position with the Red Sox. I don’t think the Yankees believed he was worth or would live up to 7 years/$153M, but they definitely hoped to get some value out of him….
You may want to check the splits on that. Ellsbury had a slash line of .358/.400/.667 in September for an OPS of 1.067. He was one of the few who actually did perform that month.
What are you talking about? September was his second best month of the season behind July. He hit .358 with a 1.067 OPS lol
Thanks Vinny. How are the red sox doing? You are so perfect.
And he was the lesser of two evils. So they appeased Yankee fans and saved three extra years of Cano. Let’s go Muts
@StandUpGuy
-In 2018 CC was one of the BEST 5th starters in all of baseball and might have been a #3 or #4 on some teams. He only gave us 150 IP and need an occasional DL/IL stint but he was well worth the $1/8 mil based upon his 3.65 ERA (43rd overall), 4.13 FIP (74th), 153 IP (74th), 2.2 WAR (61st), 8.4 K/9 (69th), 140 Ks (70th), 3 BB/9 (75th). Considering there’s 30 teams in the majors and they historically carry 5 SP then CC would rank in the top half of a pool of 150 SP last year. As a #5 he did just find and deserved another roll of the dice with a 1/$8 mil deal. Sabathia’s troubles this year would not seem as if a big deal had Severino been healthy and Paxton, Happ and Tanaka pitched better this year.
The Stanton deal wasn’t a need but they fell into acquiring the reigning NL MVP who hit near 60 hrs. He’s young and there’s plenty of time for him to justify his contract.
Now if Stanton’s money prevented Cashman from splurging on a high-end SP then the trade would prove unjustifiable, but it doesn’t seem that’s the case. The failure to overspend on Corbin seems more to be about how they value him rather than just the sticker price.
The Ellsbury deal befuddles me. I felt that was a mistake from the moment it was done. Not sure if this advance analytics played a part or if it came from someone else in the FO (like Randy Levine when Boras went over his head and dealt with him instead of Cash on the Arod opt-out/extension). It just seems that if he were to splurge it wouldn’t have been for a 30 yo whose game was dependent on his speed.
The Stanton deal was bad. He will most likely not opt out and he was not added to a position where there is/was a need. That deal was made to make headlines and nothing else. In hindsight, they would have been better off signing JD Martinez in lieu of Stanton if they thought they needed a hitter. hopefully that deal doesn’t hamper them from fixing their starting pitching in the future.
Stroman is arguably significantly better than Happ.
Not even close, Stroman is garbage
Stroman is nothing special, but he’s a better bet than Happ in the postseason. And Frazier is no longer a serious prospect.
+bucnole31658
Is this a joke? Happ is posted up with an ERA of 5.00 on the season while Stroman has an ERA of 3.23. I dont think Stroman is necessarily an elite pitcher but compared to JA Happ Stroman he might as well be.
@bucnole31658
It’s hard to say Stroman isn’t better than a SP with a ERA and FIP over 5.00.
Aside of age between the 1 I agree.Ll
Arguably and significant kinda fight each other in that debate
How so? Stroman is significantly better than Happ and its arguably clear as day. Or do you not that think a ERA+ of 137 on the year is not better than an ERA+ of 89?
Yeah Wright look the records and then you said that stupid coment dahh
Tanaka has one year left and is lights out in the postseason, Happ has 1 year then a vesting option for another if he reaches 165 innings or 27 starts in 2020.
I think the Yankees have a bad habit of re-signing guys they traded for in a second half push, that worked out for that rental period. They need to be better about viewing guys as rental pieces. Look at what a non-factor Chase Headley was after re-signing for FOUR YEARS.
Stroman was pitching well in Yankee Stadium *this season*. That’s why they wanted him. I don’t think they were willing to trade anybody that could be a major league starter or already is one, which includes Frazier.
Please stop calling Frazier a major league starter, because he’s not, or has he proven enough to be.
Seems like that Quadruple A line is as blurry as ever. And I believe he’s on the 40-man roster, which makes him a major leaguer.
Being on the 40 man makes him a major leaguer? Lol, perhaps in some people’s minds. I’d say that Frazier playing in AAA makes him a minor leaguer. Scores of minor leaguers are on 40 man rosters.
Okay I’ll just ask, if someone or multiple people are willing to answer thoughtfully: Why do people not believe in Frazier? I’m not that high on Frazier, I’m rather indifferent to his presence in the line up or in the club house. He’s not a personality I’m particularly drawn to nor do I think he will blossom into a .325 avg .a .355 OBP but I am convinced that if the Yankees trade him he will explode into a valuable multi-tool player with a solid 7+ years of decent WAR generating productivity in him. I know he isn’t directly home grown talent, but he’s pretty close to someone the Yankees have developed in house. He hits for power and can hit for average if given regular at bats. Is it his hesitancy in the field post-concussion? Is it that people think his bat’s upside is overrated? Is it his personality and relationship with the media?
+Trillionare
Its mostly the latter. Media wrote a lot of hit pieces against the kid and a lot of people ate it up without question, even if its a high possibility they only read headlines on B/R. Its the common outrage based on knee jerk reaction stuff that is so common in sports discussions.
@PopeMarley
Willie Calhoun, Eloy Jiminez and Alex Verdugo are similar highly rated prospects that have about the same amount of at bats as Frazier and about the same OBP/OPS. Are they not major league starters? Your point is so absurd because it’s understood that they are still young and working on their craft. I don’t get the hate. No one is claiming he’s anywhere near a star. But he was an elite prospect with the Indians and if he had come up with any other team we wouldn’t even had this conversation..
@TrillionaireTeamOperator
By your logic you’re saying if it ain’t broke give/trade it away?
What are the factors that bother most failed SP for the Yanks? Ability to prevent runs from scoring, health and ability to handle pressure. The old “AL BEAST” think isn’t really as much of a factor of late considering the teams in rebuild mode in the East (O’s, Jays).
Happ had a relative health (5 straight 25+ start seasons). He had a history of success in the AL East as he has a lifetime ERA of 3.00 in 141 IP vs Boston, 3.60 in 137 IP vs Baltimore, 3..72 in 58 IP vs Toronto (who he pitched for so that’s why it’s a smaller sample size) and 4.15 in 95 IP vs Tampa. He came to the Yanks last year and was lights out going 7-0 with an ERA under 3 and great overall peripherals.
This is a case were people are killing Cashman in hindsight.. There’s no way he could’ve prognosticated that Happ would have a brain fart of a season. In contrast, every thought Lance Lynn was doo doo and wanted nothing of him for 2019. Yet, he’s the guy with the 200 IP, +5 WAR and a respectable 3.76 ERA and 3.15 FIP.
I really can’t fault Cash for what happened to Happ this year and Gray last year. Both examples of how tough Yankee Stadium can be for some guys. Pitchers come to NY and struggle and go elsewhere and thrive. No way to know if it’s the pitching coach or philosophy, the stadium or a inability to mentally focus pitching in the Bronx.
Brian Cashman is the most overrated GM of all time.
Not really. He isnt perfect but he has been a very good GM. I mean, look at all the depth he was able to provide. The team set the record for most injured players in one season and yet they have won 102 games to this point (with a less than good rotation for the most part, too). He has hit on too many player acquisitions this year alone to even be slightly overrated.
Set the record? Just curious, who held the record previously? Does anyone know or care? And, isn’t this the first year of the IL?
Is this your first year watching baseball? If so, welcome!
So… no one knows and no one cares.
2016 Dodgers had the previous record with 28 if you needed to know. And people care, you’re just not one of them.
Where does it say the Yankees broke any kind of record for “most injured players in one season”?
Yanks setting record for most injured players in a single season is well-documented and I’ve heard it mentioned on multiple local and national broadcasts. I’m surprised some people here thought it was made up.
cbssports.com/mlb/news/yankees-set-mlb-record-for-…
I knew the IL started this year, so for the Yankees to have the most players ever on the IL really means nothing. The DL and IL are two different animals. There are many players that went on the IL that never would have gone on the DL. MLBTR even talked about it earlier in the year.
+PopeMarley
It says it in my comment. But enough with being cheeky, the Yankees have had players miss a cumulative 2,556 days due to injury this season thus far. No team has even clipped 2,000 games lost to injury going back as far as 2015 (Spotrac doesnt go back any farther than that, does anyone else have a decent injury-by-team tracker?)
What are you talking about? The DL and IL are the exact same thing, They just changed the name this year to be more sensitive towards people with actual disabilities
@Melchez
The difference between the DL and IL is 5 days. If a player needs 10 days to recover from an injury I can almost guarantee you they would’ve gone on the DL. They just changed the name for PC reasons and the length because some guys didn’t need the full 15 days and 10 is sort of a mid point. What advantage do they have for putting key players on the IL if not for a real need for recovery? Also, consider just the key guys lost for significant time. Andujar, Stanton, Voit, Betances, Didi, Judge, Hicks and Severino all missed a month or more.
Give an average GM the amount of money and talent Cashman has had since he took over the GM role and he cashes in more titles. No pun intended.
You think the talent the team has had just magically appeared and he had nothing to do with it? Funny how someone like Epstein gets credit for building talented teams (and he should) but at the same time Cashman builds incredibly talented team after team and gets no credit.
@WereAllJustGuestsHere
I honestly feel like Cashman became a much better GM once Hal voiced a desire to not necessarily spend less but to spend better. Hal’s said that if the team just had to have THE GUY then he would pony-up (Stanton had the largest contract in sports history before Harper/Manny/Trout). Also, I think he’s caught up to other organizations and went all in on analytics and how they valued certain players.
Since 2014 he’s been some what of a savant and the main pieces of this team were acquired in ways that most other teams could’ve duplicated.
Acquired Didi, Hicks, Green, Voit, Paxton, Gray, Robertson and Kahnle via trades using their own prospects.
Thru trades or good scouting/drafting valuable prospects have debuted as a Yankee like Torres, Andujar, Judge, Sanchez, Severino, German, Frazier and a whole squad of others they’ve traded away. And they have a solid mix of good performing prospects and a lot of high risk/high reward arms in low A and AA.
He’s shown an ability to know which prospects to keep and which to let go. So far, the only ones that might hurt a little are Taylor Widenor who had a great 2018 but has struggled off and on this year and Nick Solak now with the Rangers. But Solak was blocked so it might not heart as much.
We can point to Ellsbury and say that most other franchises couldn’t not have swallowed that failure but more than likely he never would’ve signed a guy like Ellsbury on almost any other team.
It seems that Cashman has become a better GM the last 4 years and I think that aside from splurging on the bullpen like he has he replicate a lot of the same success in any moderate size market. I don’t think any GM short of Jesus Christ could do anything to help the Marlins.
Right because he didn’t build this team from scratch lol
I actually think Cashman is a pretty good GM, but…
Let him work for a Bob Nutting type owner and then let’s see how good he is…
Cashman may have made some errors in judgment with his free agent signings, but I think that his biggest foible now is that he overvalues “his” prospects. Gerritt Cole sure would look good in pinstripes for at least the past couple of years, and could have been acquired inexpensively by the Yanks. Four second tier prospects is all that it would have taken.
There is no way of ever really proving this, but Im not so sure Cole would have done as well in Pinstripes as he has in Houston. People seem to give nothing but praise to Houston’s pitching coaches for fixing/maximizing production out of their pitchers. Yankees pitching coaches are known for the opposite. Yet people seem to forget this and just assume Cole wouldve played exactly the same in NY.
Also, it wouldnt have taken four second tier prospects. Pirates asked a lot out of the Yankees. They demanded Andujar or Gleyber (and its even rumored that they demanded both). Houston got a great deal that the Pirates werent going to offer NY. Just like the Mets got a great deal for Stroman that the Jays were never going to give to the Yankees (Jays asked for Garcia, and if im not mistaken Gleyber too)
Asking and doing are two completely different concepts. Gerritt Cole is/was going to be an outstanding pitcher wherever he was destined to play outside of Pittsburgh. He would be the number 1 starter for the Yankees today if there had been any better offer than 4 second tier prospects that Cashman would not offer. Possibly, this missed opportunity to acquire one of MLB’s best pitchers for minimal cost may not have gotten the Yanks another WS title, but it sure would have increased the odds.
I like how you just completely ignored the points i made just to repeat the points you made that i’ve already challenged.
Again, the Pirates werent willing to give the Yankees the same deal as they gave the Astros. They accepted a much lower package from the Astros than they had asked of the Yankees. The Yankees most likely matched Houstons offer in terms of value but because it wasnt Torres & Andujar they never struck a deal.
“Gerrit Cole is/was going to be an outstanding pitcher wherever he decided to play”
I seriously disagree. Again, Houston is known for getting the most out of their pitchers. They took a struggling Verlander and made him have a late career resurgence. They took Charlie Morton, who was a sub-par SP his entire career, and made him into a low 3 ERA pitcher. Meanwhile, the Yankees take Sonny Gray and almost ruin his career and the moment he leaves Rothschild and gets back with his old pitching coach in CIN he puts up a sub 3 ERA. Gerrit Cole, at the time of his trade, came off the worst season of his career, posting highs in HR’s with a HR/9 of 1.4. Do you think the Yankees wouldve fixed him or just made him worse? My bets on the latter. Houstons pitching coaches/staff is known for getting the most out of their SP, the Yankees pitching coaches/staff is known for the exact opposite.
I agree with you. I think one of the biggest problems for Yankees pitchers is the stadium itself. That short porch in right is a killer. Turns too many fouls and outs into home runs.
A struggling Verlander? The guy was second in Cy Young award in 2016 and was having a decent 2017 before he was traded.
Verlander is a Hall of Famer who was playing on a last place club in the middle of a teardown and rebuild.
Of course, he is going to play better on a star studded/loaded team like Astros or Yankees.
Cashman outsmarted himself there.
Verlander has been a “Yankee killer” with both the Tigers and the Astros.
+Melchez
Well, struggling to his standards. 3.82 ERA on the year prior to being traded to HOU, where he immediately did so much better (posted an ERA of 1.06 in the remainder of that season). Hey Melchez, how about you actually respond to the many of the counter points brought up against yours in this thread alone instead of pretend you never revisited the thread to only regurgitate the same incorrect conclusions time and time again and make corrections based on semantics. You, out of all people, should remember the headlines about Verlander that year before he was traded. I shouldnt have to explain to you that by “struggling” that i meant was playing worse than he normally did.
+SportsFan
I dont disagree with the first paragraph, but what are you even referring to in the second paragraph?
In 2016 JV had an era of 3.04… Sanchez had the lowest at 3.00 2016 JV was 2nd in Cy Young to Porcello. JV 2016 WAR was 7.2. Next best was Kluber at 5.8. Led league in K’s… had the lowest WHIP.
Struggle?
The next year the team was in full dump mode. Trade rumors, Injuries to VMart and Cabrera, ineffectiveness of Sanchez and Zimmermann… the team was in free fall in 2017. A change of scenery helped JV and the best place to go was Houston where they had a solid team and an excellent track record of helping pitchers.
Struggle? The only “struggle” he had was deciding to leave Detroit.
JV was struggling in 2017 compared to his usual standards. I like how you continue to refer back to 2016 as if thats the year i’m saying he struggled in (im not, btw). In 2017, he has an ERA of 4.96 in the beginning of July, and an ERA of 4.20 in the beginning of August. If thats not struggling, i dont know what is. He was able to return back to form starting around Aug 9th, where he pitched 8 shutout innings and only had one bad start throughout the rest of that season.
“Struggle?”
Yes, posting a ERA around 5 by the midpoint of the season and 4.20 by the start of August is indeed struggling. Especially when youre a player like Verlander. To say he didnt struggle would be a lie and you know it.
“A change of scenery helped JV where they had an excellent track record of helping pitchers”
THATS EXACTLY WHAT I’VE BEEN SAYING THIS ENTIRE TIME. Youre such an idiot and its not even funny anymore.
P.S
Dont even bother bringing up 2016, im not saying Verlander is/was a bad player, all im saying is Verlander was struggling in !!!2017!!! and when he, like many other pitchers, went to Houston, they performed much much better.
Well then explain how he “struggled” Did he forget how to pitch? Did the hitters finally figure him out and then they forgot when he went to Houston? I think what you mean to say is Verlander had a couple bad games in 2017. He had 4 games where he did terrible. He had a bunch of games where he did great… typical JV pitching.
If you take out his worst 2 games from 2017… they were doozies. A 4 inning 9 run game and a 3 inning 7 run game (both against cleveland) his era goes from 3.36 to 2.75. His Tiger era would have gone from 3.82 to 3.11. Two bad games!!! And what type of manager leaves his ace out there like that when he’s getting killed?
+Melchez
He struggled by putting up some bad performances which are clearly indicated by the numbers. Also, struggling does not mean completely unraveling. I dont know why youre assuming that I’m saying something equivalent to he forget how to pitch or got completely figured out. When you put up an ERA near five by the start of July, youve struggled, again, especially for Verlander’s standards.
“If you take out…”
Yeah I guess youre right… if he didnt struggle his numbers wouldnt have indicated that he struggled. Go figure. His 2017 season, up until the end of July/beginning of August, was like his Jun 6th to July 5th stretch of this year (you know, when he struggled.)
Listen, he struggled, get over it. Anyway, the original point of this whole thing was that Houston takes pitchers and gets the most out of them and that still rings true.
JESUS CHRIST! Are you guys still debating Justin Verlanders performance from right before he got to Houston? This conversation has been going on for several days now. Clearly neither of you are going to budge in your opinions. Just agree to disagree and move on!
I concede… Verlander struggled in two games over a 2 year span. 2016, he did very well. 2017, he had a couple bad games. Even Bob Gibson struggled.
“Houston takes pitchers and gets the most out of them and that still rings true.”
Except guys like Wade Miley, Hector Rondon, Ken Giles, Mike Fiers,.. but yes, those other two guys, that is true.
Agree….with unlimited resources he is allowed several screwups and still be successful. Operate with the Rays budget and still do what they do almost every year. Pretty amazing.
i think you have to look at Cashman’s tenure in two parts. one with George and one with Hal. George enforced the acquisition of superstars, which require terrible contracts. If you look at the Hal era, analytics, player development and smart trades dominant versus aggressive contracts.
Sure, the Stanton trade doesn’t look amazing, but I’ll tell you one thing. the amount of young talent he’s accumulated over the past 4 years has been up there with the rest of baseball.
@Pingleja
Well said. I simply can’t imagine George allowing Cashman to be a seller at the deadline and moving “big named vets” like McCann, Chapman, Miller and Beltran that kicked start the rebuild (or re-tuning).
The Yankees are having a great year; much of the starting roster is and was on the IL; the replacements and their replacements have been perfect are also on the IL. If you give no credit to Brian Cashman, then who? Dave Dombrowski is available.
Yankee fans said Stroman would definitely be a yankee. He was the best option available. Hes a new Yorker and he had success. Now that hes not a yankee…. “ehhh, we didnt want him anyway.” “Hes a bum”.
Typical yankee fan double talk.
Mlbtrs,there were 28 other teams that didnt trade for Stroman…. wonder why they didnt get him? Does anyone care? I mean really… they aren’t the Yankees, so who cares right?
Maybe the next article will be why the Yankees passed on Greinke? Keuchel? That’s okay… yankees will sign Cole and every other top free agent.
Since you mention Cole, refusing to give up mediocre prospects for him when the Yanks had a chance to get him is arguably Cashman’s biggest blunder over the past 5 years. The last couple years would have played out very differently if Cash had made that trade … and he obviously should have. But as a Sox fan, I’m glad he didn’t.
I don’t believe the Yankees will pursue Cole. Cashman is one of those people who holds grudges and when Cole was picked in the first round out of high school back in 2008, he opted for college and didn’t sign with the Yanks. Cashman remembers being burned on this and this will, IMO, prevent this deal from ever coming to fruition.
You’re delusional if you don’t think the Yankees will be in on Gerrit Cole.
He tried to trade for him but the Pirates had a better offer from the Astros… no grudge whatsoever. And you can’t really hold a grudge against someone for wanting to attend college.
Cashman will probably offer Cole a 3 year $50 mil offer, just so he can say he tried and that Cole isn’t worth THAT much.
Cashman tried desperately to trade for Cole when he was on the Pirates, so you are wrong.
That is a little unfair because they were heavily linked to Stroman at the deadline. Hence no Greinke article.
And Grienke has said in the past that he doesn’t want to pitch in New York.
Yeah people miss this point a lot. Grienke has a partial no trade, the Yankees are on that list, and he wasn’t waving it. So there was never even a conversation about him.
The only player the Yankees were talking to AZ about was Robbie Ray, and they only reason to bring in yet another starter with an ERA north of 4 (in the terrible NL) would be to pretend they did something. I am glad they didn’t.
After Stroman came off the board there really wasn’t a difference maker to be had. Also, while I was waving the flag strong for Stroman, I am glad the Yankees didn’t get him. Not due to any sour grapes, but only because is he really hasn’t been very good since the deadline.
If people want to shit on Cashman, it should be for passing on a young guy with great stuff in Patrick Corbin which was simply a matter of spending money they had and didn’t want to spend. That guy is 14-7 with an ERA of 3.05. there is your difference maker.
@Melchez
Can you stop insisting the Yanks “passed” on Greinke? It’s been talked about a gazillion times that a) he had no trade and b) in the past years Greinke and Cashman have both expressed how they wouldn’t be a good match. It was never a possibility. Kudos to Greinke for knowing what’s best for him.
As for Keuchel, 29 other teams passed on him as well and it was clear that Boras and him were asking for way too much. Are the Yanks supposed to fork over the 5/$100 mil contract he was demanding? His peripherals aren’t looking so hot 4.49 ERA, his velocity is under 90 mph (although he’s more of a finesse guy) and his homer rates would likely be a lot higher at Yankee stadium. No reason to overpay for him. That’s EXACTLY what the old Yanks would’ve done.
You can scream “sign him sign him “all you want but what do you say if he ended up the same way as Gray while with the Yanks? I’m sure that if he could’ve been had on a 2 year deal he would’ve had more offers.
Marcus Stroman loves Marcus Stroman. Overrated.
Shouldn’t we all love ourselves? We’re stuck with ourselves for a really long time – it can get really awkward if we don’t get along with ourselves.
Puff Piece with little revealed other than Yankees won’t move Clint Frazier at a discount. A guy that has no real position, has concussion issues and doesn’t get on base enough to warrant putting up with his subpar Defense in left. Yankees will be lucky to turn Clint into a similar haul they returned for Sonny Gray last offseason. Seriously- could Frazier return a top 40 competitive balance pick? Doubtful.
Yes, he could. The issue is not Frazier’s play. The issue is that he’s on the Yankees, who at this point, won’t run out a starter that isn’t virtually a complete player, where you can safely profile his performance for years to come and most guys over perform more so than under. The Yankees are not shy about flipping guys they don’t see a ton of value in for themselves, even knowing that player might blossom elsewhere. I think Frazier is a victim of timing and a funky injury. He also clearly has the Yips. I don’t think the guy is depressed or anything but he’s gotta be overthinking his performance at this point.
I honestly think they’re terrified that if they give up on Frazier, he will go to the next club and immediately become a reasonably well rounded and productive stud that perhaps beats them or helps a different team win their division and have a strong showing in a playoff run. I also don’t think they think his issue is the pressure and atmosphere of New York, unlike with Sonny Gray and a few others. I think the Yankees are keeping Frazier like a patent being held by a company out of spite and caution rather than being put to functional and profitable use,
His Yankee career thus far seems to be turning into a Joba Chamberlain/Andy Phillips/Greg Bird type except it’s not exactly his fault and I think the Yankees figure a few things:
1) Clint Frazier is still a kid. Just look at his face. That’s not the face of a man. He’s still getting bigger and stronger, probably. He’s still got another year or two before they seriously begin to write him off.
2) Gardner is a stud whom Yankees fans love and are so happy is still around and literally playing better than ever. A lot of guys hope he re-signs next year and for big ‘we owe you one’ money. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if Gardner retired after this season depending on how everything shakes out. I also am sure Gardner retires to resumes the same role he figured he’d play this year when he re-signed. So that’s one starting outfielder who will need to be replaced or platooned.
3) Hicks is a career injury risk. As great as he was last year and as good as he was this season when not on the IL, it looks like one of the reasons the Yankees and him signed that deal was to have a starter quality bat hanging around the 40 man roster for the next decade, not necessarily to be their number one starting center fielder of the next decade. Frazier is a a few years younger than Hicks with a way higher offensive production ceiling. Heck, he could become the first baseman if Luke Voit fades into a void from the Luuuuuke chants, Greg Bird flies the coop and Encarnacion pirates away with his parrot. Seriously though, his bat and his age have too much upside for the Yankees to trade him.
TTO, I agree that Frazier has marginal value. On Sonny Gray, to date, the Reds got the better of that deal.
so did Seattle. shed long looks good. what did cash the genius pull in?
@fitsiqis65
So odd that you make a big deal over Shed who’s only been up for two weeks. It’s too early to say anything about either. Josh Stowers, the guy they acquired, is having a good season in low A. He was only drafted in 2018 (2nd round). But so far .273/.386/.400 with 33 xbh and 35 sb. There’s room for improvement but not bad considering he’s in his 2nd year in the minors.
genius- am not making a big deal at all, just pointing out the FACT that the guy the yanks acquired is is 22 years old and sitting in low A, while the guy the Mariners got is 23 and in the majors.
@Socrates Curveball
Can we please stop acting as if the league is devoid of bat first OF who are liabilities in the field but contributing with the bat. The fact that he’s cheap and at an age where he can improve works in his favor.
He clearly has to improve in areas of his game but he;s only 25. Elroy JIminez has the same obstacles to overcome and I don’t hear anyone bashing him. I could list a whole bunch of stars that took a year or two or three to blossom into what everyone thought they would be, But in his 425 at-bats spread out over 3 seasons and in between injury stints his .766 OPS is not exactly horrible. Even with some of the mental/personality issues and lack of everyday playing time his .265/.310/.489 slash shows he’s got real power. His 1st half slash of .283/.330/.513 in 53 games is not something that should be ignored. I don’t like the way Cash handled him because one of the vets should’ve told him hot to handle the media. I feel he was coming into his own at the time. But I don’t get the hate on this guy. You say he was overrated but that’s not what he was thought of as the two or three years he was with the Indians and a top 25-75 prospect with great bat speed and other qualities. I think he’ll get better once he can settle in and play everyday.
Given Stroman’s numbers this year and his playoff performances, Cashman’s sentiment seems….odd. Reads more like a, “We didn’t want him anyways” comment.
Cashman speaks with confidence. That’s nice. His Yankees better win this year. Otherwise he should be scrutinized.
@WereAllJustGuestsHere
As a Yanks fan it’s win or bust but honestly, I feel like the GM’s job is to put together a winning team and address needs as you go. I thought Happ, Paxton and Severino all came with some amount of risk but expected them to be much better than this. The one guy thought of as a health risk (aside from CC w/ of course we knew what to expect in terms of health) was Paxton and he’s managed to stay relatively healthy and has matched his career high of 28 starts this season.
It’s fair to say he should’ve signed Corbin but all it takes is a bad year or a poor health for people to critique him for signing him to a $150 mil deal?
A GMs job is almost always judged in hindsight and honestly, at some point it’s up to the player to do their job.
I don’t understand Cashman’s reasoning. Stroman is not, by any means, a front-line ace, but he’s certainly very good, and he’s controllable for one more year. There has to be more to this than just some intense feeling for Frazier. Maybe they saw something in Stroman’s advanced metrics that caused them to be concerned. In Yankee Stadium (small sample) he hasn’t been at all good.,
Cash sees himself heading into a postseason with no starting pitching and just a bet that slugging away will beat the astros. He had to make an excuse. Stroman would easily be a top three pitcher on the Yankees. No excuse no to trade Frazier for him.
“Stroman would easily be a top three pitcher on the Yankees” no he wouldn’t. Stroman is not better than Paxton, Tanaka, or Severino.
Stroman is better than Tanaka.
at the time, the yankees didn’t know if severino would even be healthy this year.
In the regular season, you can make a case Stroman is better than Tanaka, but Tanaka has a much better postseason track record than Stroman. The Yankees know Tanaka can be trusted in a big game in October. They don’t know that about Stroman. That’s a big difference.
Career WAR..Tanaka 17.1. Stroman 14.5
Postseasons..Tanaka 30 IP ERA 1.50 Whip 0.800
Stroman 30.2 ERA 4.40 Whip 1.174
Tanaka>Stroman
Famine – Tanaka has been a mediocre pitcher for the past three years. Stroman would’ve been an upgrade to the rotation, and is a similar pitcher to Tanaka in 2019 performance.
Tanaka – 1.6 WAR in 2019
Stroman – 4.1 WAR in 2019
Stroman>Tanaka
Please stop misleading people. There are children your age on this site.
-earmbrister..Not according to advanced metrics, and especially when it comes to the playoffs.
-WereAllJustGuestsHere. Trolling as usual with sss like your manhood
Using 1 season in an argument is feeble.
Still waiting for a real baseball take from you Bocephus. On second thought I don’t care. This year you’d like to see the Yanks win the WS. I guess Cashman doesn’t.
Famine – Having a baseball angle on a take isn’t trolling. When you become an adult and have your first adult beverage you might understand real life.
Prepare for another ALCS loss kids. If your team makes it that far.
+WereAllJustGuestsHere
Though Stroman has put up a better season than Tanaka, when Tanaka is on he is a lock for at least 7 shutout innings. Maybe gives up one run. Problem with him is his consistency to be ‘on’. However, he does seem to show up for big games most of the time, carrying an ERA of 1.50 of all his post season games (30 IP)
@findingnimmo
Paxton (10-2 w/ a 3.44 ERA and good peripherals in the 2nd half of the season). Happ (1..61 ERA in his last 4 starts), Tanaka (3.41 ERA in his last 5 starts) and Severino has been very sharp in his 2 starts this season. And would of imagined we wouldn’t have German now? All the Yanks need is to roll into the post-season with a few guys with the hot hands and everyone healthy and we have a great shot.
Clearly, the Astros and Dodgers are the two teams that pose the greatest threat but if our pitchers can keep it close I like our chances. The Yanks of 96-2000 didn’t exactly win 4 chips off the strength of their starting pitching staff.
The reason why stroman became an issue is b/c once again Cashman failed to successfully solidify the SP in the off season. So prior to the deadline Yanks were desperate. Passing on stroman was smart (he was not worth the price nor an upgrade). Not signing corbin/morton or pulling past triggers on pieces like cole, scherzer etc was not smart.
In any event, lets just pray pax keeps it up, seve’s stuff translates against MLB team in October (not the AA angels and Jays he’s faced) and Tanaka figures it out. Better to have the pen come in when we are up or at least tied than the usual down 5-1 in the 3rd……
This team not signing Corbin or / and Morton is gotta be one of the biggest mistakes I have ever seen.
After they signed CC I said this guy will not last an entire season and only win 5 games.
Corbin has pitched almost 200 innings…..
How was it possible to look at the their five man staff at the deadline and somehow come to the conclusion that Stroman would be in the bullpen come playoff time. Paxton is the only one who is arguably better.
Sour grapes from Cashman. No class.
It wasn’t really “eyebrow raising” at all. You MLBTR kids get surprised too easily.
C’mon. Of course he says that, his team is about to go to the playoffs, should he give an interview and identify which of his pitchers he wanted to replace?
Stroman isn’t a Yankee because Cashman’s read of the market was that no one else was going to give up a package as valuable as Frazier. Arguably, he was right.
The problem is that sometimes you have to overpay, and Cashman (who I’d rate as a very good GM) didn’t seem to recognize it. When he extracted Frazier, Torres et al from the Indians and Cubs for Miller and Chapman, they were overpaying, because that’s what the market conditions dictated. Yankees have had a remarkable season given the injuries, and if they come up short against the Astros because of a lack of pitching, Cashman is going to have to answer for that.
The pair of pitchers they got are probably better than a Frazier led package the Yankees would’ve had to give up anyways.
No, Just no.
It easily is. Don’t respond to me with your well thought out comments like this one.
Anthony Kay will be a #4 at best, if he can stay on the field.[TJ surgery] How has that worked out for Merryweather?
Simeon Woods-Richardson is a lottery ticket that has a 50/50 shot at ever making it. He has a power fastball. He is raw and years away.
There was much better return for Stroman than what the Mets offered out there, but my point is Atkins doesn’t have a clue. Let’s trade a bonifide prospect, Aaron Sanchez and Biagini for a guy[Fisher] that doesn’t not belong in the Major Leagues and most scouting types new that at the time the trade was made..
Atkins trade of Stroman falls into that bungling category. He is a laughing stock inside professional baseball circles.
JD, Please don’t buy into the “RARA media BlueJays we are building” crap and “acquiring great players”. Listen to people who know. Sure don’t listen to me, whatever, but google what other professional baseball people think of the returns like what Atkins got for Stroman.
This is highly suspicious.
That’s what the guy who didn’t get him is supposed to say. We didn’t want him anyway. Stroman to that point was better than every starter they were rolling out there.
Stroman is a #3 when he is on. As we all have seen he has sucked with the Mets, that is because Stroman is an emotional mess of a little boy. He lost it in the room when he was told he was traded to the Mets. He would inwardly lose it on the mound for the Jays every 2 or 3rd start and have a blow up inning. He has been doing it his whole career.
The Jays picked up two pitchers from the mets. One is a lottery ticket and the other is #4 rotation guy. Another Atkins serious screwup.
The trade from the Yankees for Stroman would have been much better
Cashman is correct. I have been calling Stroman as a late innings relief guy since he was a rookie. He has an elite sinker and cutter when he his is right and in a closer type role he would be awesome where he wouldn’t have to worry about all the other innings and let it fly. Stats guys can’t see that but Baseball types can. #Scoutseyes
Cashman has built a very nice Yankees team.
That said, Cash has scrimped and gone cheap on the Starting Rotation.
I guess the Yanks are happy with just making the playoffs and don’t care if they win a WS title!?
Cashman has dropped the ball on so many starters that I have lost count
Verlander, Gerrit Cole, Dallas Keichel. Patrick Corbin , Marcus Strohman
the list is too long to list here..
I am sure the Twins, Indians, Astros, Rays, A’s etc are very happy with the Yankees playoff rotation..
Every time we trade for a picture he hardly ever comes in and do what Paxton is doing Paxton struggle but I guess he found his groove but all these other pictures we trade for seem to collapse under the pressure of playing for the Yankees I’m glad we didn’t get him because I’m a big Clint fan and I think Clint will be good for us but we have some good young arms in the minors and I think will be great going forward what we got