DEC. 23: The White Sox seem to be aggressively going after Encarnacion, as they’re “very serious” in their pursuit and look as if they’re “at the forefront of talks,” Jon Heyman of MLB Network tweets. However, Heyman notes that it’s doubtful a deal will come together until after the holidays.
DEC. 22: The White Sox are showing interest in free agent slugger Edwin Encarnacion, reports Bruce Levine of 670 The Score.
The South Siders have already made a couple of high-profile acquisitions this winter, dishing out multi-year contracts to catcher Yasmani Grandal and lefty Dallas Keuchel. They’ve also added Gio Gonzalez and Nomar Mazara in a pair of lower-profile moves. They’ve been one of the most active teams this winter, and there might still be more to come.
While the additions of Gonzalez and Keuchel—along with the presumed return of touted prospect Michael Kopech and the expected progression of Dylan Cease—figure to provide a healthy boost to the starting rotation, the White Sox could certainly stand to improve the lineup, which in 2019 put up the third-fewest runs in the American League. While Grandal is an unquestionable upgrade, he and Mazara alone are surely not enough to vault the offense into the league’s upper division.
Yoan Moncada and Tim Anderson are premium talents on the left side of the infield, and they showcased their talent with a pair of breakout seasons in 2019. Top prospects Nick Madrigal and Luis Robert loom as likely solutions to the vacancies at second base and in center field after putting up video-game numbers in the minors.
Between Anderson, Moncada, Madrigal, Mazara, Jimenez, and Robert, the upside of the lineup is undeniable and the best-case outcome is a lineup that goes nine deep, but Sox fans will more likely have to wait a couple years for that reality to actualize. As far as this year is concerned, the volatility of that group equals its potential. With that in mind, the veteran combination of Jose Abreu and Encarnacion looks like as good a pair as any to teach the young guns.
Enter Edwin? Encarnacion, who will play the 2020 season at age 37, is still among the finest designated hitters in baseball and could probably roll out of bed and put up 30 homers and 100 RBI. He would surely serve as a fine anchor for a youthful lineup that seems to lack a “sure thing.” And he won’t cost a fortune. Even if the Sox, after inking Grandal and Keuchel to hefty deals, are nearing their spending limit—Roster Resource estimates their current 2020 payroll at $112MM, compared to $96MM at the end of 2019—Encarnacion is an affordable option; MLBTR projected that he would earn a one-year deal worth $8MM in free agency.
It appears EE’s only options are Rangers or White Sox. No?
Blue jays have also had interest
Nomar Mazara is a zero profile acquisition.
You might be a “StandUpGuy” around here but I’ll bet you’re a sit down guy when you pee.
Haha comment of the day.
And a kneel down guy when he pukes
You had him at kneel down guy.
LMAO
/thread
Nomar Mazara represents a significant upgrade over White Sox RF’s that combined for .249/.296/.340, 71 wRC+ and -1.3 fWAR. The second worst production in MLB, behind only the Pirates. . Both Leury and Engel are fine backups. Leury for his versatility and Engel for his excellent defense. Depth is a good thing. There is opportunity at DH also, a position that collectively produced even worse than RF for the White Sox in 2019.
Over four years, Nomar’s cumulative career WAR is 1.8. I hope he finally breaks through as he will be such a fun player to watch if he does. Always seems to be right on the verge of figuring it out. But don’t get your hopes up too high as you’ll be sorely disappointed. This coming from a diehard Rangers fan who has learned that lesson the hard way with him.
@CursedRangers: Understood, but with the Sox lowly output at RF last season, even Mazara’s career numbers are an upgrade. Even so, sometimes a change of scenery is all a player needs, that and some guys take longer to develop than others.
Nomad has a 1.4 WAR, the combo of Sox RF’s over the last 3+ years is -4
No, he’s not Mookie, Judge or Harper, yet a real MLB player. It’s fine.
Jays signed Travis Shaw this morning possibly taking that EE role
yeah but the Jays just signed Shaw which doesn’t entirely take them out of the running but makes it far less likely given the presence of Tellez (whether or not you think he’s actually good enough to start is another thing BUT he shows good power and for a young team I suppose he’s worth giving continued ABs to in hopes he develops)
Rangers have Choo, so EE is not going to Arlington.
Choo and Encarnacion still own gloves. I’m not saying they’re great, but there is certainly a way to fit both of them in lineup. Whatever deficiency Encarnacion might have in the field, he more than makes up as an offensive upgrade over Ronald Guzman.
I want to think Guzman has some upside, but that’s probably somewhere between James Loney and Brandon Belt, at best.
Must be a slow day. Nothing new here.
Let’s post and comment again after the Sox sign him.
Hopefully a cheap 1 year deal.
Red Sox could happen if they move the Price contract
The idea of cutting significant payroll usually doesn’t including throwing 8-10 mill at a guy who won’t add any wins to the ‘20 club and is pushing 40.
Eddie hasn’t even turned 37 yet. He was worth 2.5 wins. He was 42nd in wRC+ and his UZR 150 the last 2 years suggests he’s still a competent first baseman. The theoretical value of positional adjustment comes in round numbers. The guys job as a DH is to hit and he still does that much better than league average. There’s a ton of value in Eddie at 1 and 8 mil. Thanks to fWAR the value is probably a lot higher.
J.D. Martinez says hello.
Lol exactly
If they were to trade Betts, Martinez can play 80 games in the field between lf and first. Encarnacion can still play 60-75 games at first. Chavis covers the rest.
It seems like the Red Sox want to shed salary to cut payroll for now, not to immediately start reinvesting it back into different players. Very unlikely they move all of Price’s contract too. If Betts follows Price out the door in another trade their basically punting on 2020 anyway so they won’t have much reason to boost the payroll for this season for an old DH.
The Red Sox have the highest ticket prices in baseball.
If they move $60 MM in payroll (Price & Betts), they will have $40 MM or so to spend.
They would 100% be looking to compete in 2020 and would re-invest in the club, as long as they stay under the $208 threshold.
EE would be a nice, low cost, one year option if they move Betts.
Yup spot on, people on here get obsessed with narratives all the time – They would no doubt scrape the 208 and would love Edwin on a 1 yr 9 mill if they could
I agree with JD; spot on. A lot of the people that think the RS are punting on the season if they trade Betts, don’t understand what his anticipated $27M+ salary can buy. Something as simple as trading Betts to SD for Margot plus prospects, would then free us to trade JBJ. Betts + JBJ less Margot is probably +$34M.
In any case, 2020 won’t be about Betts. It’ll revolve around the health of our rotation. If Sale, Price, and Eovaldi are healthy, we’ll win a lot of games. If those three repeat 2019, then we could keep Betts, add Trout, and still miss the playoffs.
The Sox don’t save 60 mil by trading Price and Betts. No one is taking on Price’s full contract. I love Eddie, but the idea of trading Betts at 27 with so much surplus value and competing is ridiculous.
I read Edwin loves Fruit Loops
Captain Crunch with crunchberries rules!
I like your style
I hear Batarlo Colon prefers the International House of Pancakes…the ENTIRE International House of Pancakes……
Cinnamon Toast Crunch
That’s the only wrong answer here, King. I’m sorry.
Doesn’t hurt, they could trade him if he’s doing ok and they fall out of contention
Nice outlook ha.
he is still a good slugger. he would hit a ton of hrs at the rate.
Should b solid DH for Sox who are starting 2 look like the new leaders in the Central or soon 2 b
If healthy, would rather have Cespedes
Yo is getting an extra 10m if hes ready out of spring training. He will be ready and will put up monster numbers I dont want to trade yo his value is too low we gave the tigers a decent package for him
If alive, I’d rather have Ruth. Oranges and grapefruit, I know but, I’m trying to say Cespedes is not going to healthy enough to contribute ever again.
Huh? You realize that Edwin had an .875 OPS last year w/ a 129 wRC+ and a 2.5 fWAR right? Cespedes can’t be trusted to run to first base. Edwin would be a perfect fit for the White Sox.
Look at this possible lineup and this is how I’d line them up
1. Robert CF
2. Moncada 3B
3. Eloy LF
4. Grandal C
5. Abreu 1B
6. Encarnacion DH
7. Mazara RF
8. Anderson SS
9. Madrigal 2B
That’s a really good lineup.
If the EE news is true that lineup will be so underrated! I wouldnt keep the AL batting champ batting at the bottom of the order though.
BABIP of near .400 last year is unsustainable. He sets up the top of the order nicely. I expect BA regression to around .280-.290.
I think everyone is expecting regression from TA but I still think he could hit above .300. If you think the player the Sox started this rebuild around should just be a below average SS batting .280 at the bottom of the order than that would mean TA should be another hole we will need to fill soon. Robert and Madrigal batting 8th and 9th everyday would be great and exciting just for this year while they grow. But if TA ends up batting 8th that means were looking pretty good. Im pumped!
You don’t hit the batting champ 8th and you don’t put pressure on a top rookie like Robert to hit leadoff. I would switch those 2 otherwise it looks fine. As long as they don’t sign a DH to more than 2 years, need a spot for Andrew Vaughn and Abreu for 1b/DH very soon.
Not so sure about Mazara, but the rest of the lineup looks really good.
Who leads off, Robert, Madrigal, or Anderson?
How about none of them?
Best option would be Moncada, followed up by Grandal, since they are only two who can consistently get on base without only relying on base hots.
Robert has no business leading off.
Yeah, put Moncada back in a place he struggled and said he didn’t like… That’s a horrible idea.
maximumvelocity: “Robert has no business leading off.”
Ha-Ha! Those “video game” numbers Luis Robert posted last season at three different levels came almost exclusively as a leadoff hitter. Madrigal’s “video game” numbers were mostly as a #2 hitter. It may not happen off the bat but I’m guessing that at some point in the near future Robert and Madrigal will be atop the White Sox batting order. I also like Yoan Moncada batting third and Eloy Jimenez hitting cleanup down the road but suspect they will keep Jose Abreu at #3 as long as he continues to generate big RBI numbers since that has been his accustomed spot in the lineup for some time now.
So you would rather have a player who will have an inferior OBP?
I don’t trust Anderson to hit 330 again, and Robert could very well have an OBP if under 300 this season and strike out 150 plus times.
Madrigal is a moot point, because there is zero chance of him making the opening day roster.
If you’re asking me, yes, I would absolutely take a player with an inferior OBP at the top of the lineup if it keeps Moncada in a place he’s comfortable.
Would you rather have 2018 Moncada than 2019 Moncada? That’s what you’re risking.
Put Grandal at leadoff if you care about nothing but OBP.
Robert walked 28 times last season. It’s safe to assume he will struggle once he is elevated, and pretty safe to assume he won’t suddenly start walking in MLB.
Madrigal would be fine in theory, but I still doubt his immediate OBP skills as a rookie. And, he won’t be on opening day roster.
With Moncada, you get someone who can work counts, has good speed, and pop.
There are also plenty of guys who can hit him in on the roster who can be plugged in the three/four/five hole, especially if they add EE.
Moncada
Grandal
Abreu
Encarnacion
Jimenez
Mazara
McCann
L.Garcia/Robert
Anderson
It also places less pressure on Robert to produce immediately and less stress on Anderson.
Yah, I understand the concept.
I also understand that worrying about working counts was a big part of the reason Moncada struck out 30+% of the time in 2018. I also understand that he has said he doesn’t like leading off and would rather not do it. That’s enough for me to find an alternative.
Sorry, but the batting order argument is nonsense.
The reason Moncada struggles last season is because he was playing his first full season, and hadn’t adjusted to major league pitching. He had already started to show enough improvement by September 18, and his numbers that month were similar to what he did this season, while battle leadoff, and while playing second base.
I seriously doubt he is so weak-minded that he will regress and change his approach.
And yes, I do care about OBP, because it has a clear historical impact on runs scored.
Until Madrigal is promoted, Moncada and Grandal have best chance of getting on base in front of players with more power. Let Moncada vat leadoff until they find a suitable replacement, and have Grandal, who is slower, bat second.
Moncada will be just fine.
Paraphrasing – “I don’t like batting leadoff. I prefer not to do it.”
Ok, go bat leadoff.
The game isn’t played on a spreadsheet. The coach’s job is to put players in a position to succeed, and unless Moncada says otherwise, I’m keeping him out of the leadoff spot. There’s more than enough evidence to suggest he’s significantly better when not leading off.
And he struggled in 2018 because he was far too passive at the plate.
Mccann wouldnt be in that lineup. Need a 2nd baseman.
They have a 2nd baseman. His name is Nick Madrigal. They need a filler for like 2 weeks – and they have Mendick/Leury, which will be fine.
You don’t need the OBP of the player constantly beat out infield hits. What people need to realize is that infield hit percentage is directly tied to BABIP. BABIP will remains inflated as long as they are beating out infield hits which both Robert and Anderson do. They have the speed.
Luis Robert had an astounding 2019 season. Too much emphasis is being put on his BB/SO ratio. He finally put in a full season without any major health issues in the states and he was in full swing mode trying to amass the PA’s necessary to make the jump to the big leagues. All one needs to do is look at Robert’s track record prior to 2019 to know that he has been a more patient hitter in the past.
As a 15-18 year old ‘professional’ in Cuba for 4 seasons and playing against men who averaged being 11 years his senior in the CNS he drew 81 BB’s versus 112 SO’s in 711 PA’s, posting a .314 BA and .409 OBP. In his first taste of MiLB ball with the White Sox DOSL affiliate Robert drew 21 BB’s versus 22 SO’s in 114 PA’s. posting a .310 BA and .491 OBP with a pretty substantial layoff between his defection from Cuba to his Dominican debut.
Robert missed most of his 2018 stateside debut due to a twice injured thumb but still managed an OBP 64 points higher than his BA but with virtually no power. In 2019 he came out swinging and posted one of the best seasons seen in MiLB during the past decade, split over 3 different levels.
There is little doubt that Robert will have to continue making adjustments once he makes his White Sox debut but his hit tool suggests that he will not be the second coming of Tim Anderson when it comes to plate patience and getting on base by means other than base hits. Robert’s elite speed and his ability as a prolific base stealer also profiles very nicely atop the White Sox batting order. Of course, his enormous power would also play just fine further down in the lineup. That’s a nice problem for the White Sox to have with Nick Madrigal and Yoan Moncada also capable of hitting at or near the top with their speed and OBP’s along with a bevy of power hitters from among Eloy Jimenez, Jose Abreu and Andrew Vaughn available to follow them.
The guy put up a .328/.376/.624 slash line across 3 levels as a 21 year old and we’re worried about not taking enough walks? Numbers like that make you forget that 99% of players struggle their first time at a new level.
Maybe next year he can try to turn some of those base hits into walks.
That is an ok lineup.
They still would be loaded with low OBP players, and people are expecting way too much out of Robert and Madrigal in year one.
Mazara is vastly overrated.
And let’s not get into how bad this team would be defensively in the outfield.
They still need a RF to round out the lineup.
@maximumvelocity I don’t think anyone is overrating Mazara. Unless McCann is starting at C, Mazara figures to be the biggest hole in this lineup. Only thing I will say for him is he’s an improvement over last year, but that’s saying very little because last year was a train wreck in RF.
I’ll play along because it’s fun when we don’t have to include names like Yolmer Sanchez, Yonder Alonso, Jon Jay or Daniel Palka. Wow… what a difference a year makes!
Here’s my projected lineup by June if we signed EE:
1) Anderson SS (.357 OBP LY)
2) Grandal C (.380 OBP LY)
3) Moncada 3B (.915 OPS LY)
4) EE DH (.875 OPS LY)
5) Abreu 1B (.834 OPS LY – less K’s than Eloy right now but I can see Eloy moving up to 5 quickly)
6) Eloy LF (.828 OPS LY)
7) Robert CF/RF (I want Robert and Eloy hitting B2B as often as possible – they’ll push each other so much)
8) Mazara RF/Leury Garcia CF (Platoon: Mazara LY .844 OPS vs RHP, Garcia .786 OPS vs LHP)
9) Madrigal 2B (love two high contact guys hitting back to back with TA7 due up next)
Current team- VS LHP:
Anderson
Grandal
Abreu
Jimenez
Monada
McCann
Robert
Madrigal
Garcia
VS RHP:
Moncada
Grandal
Mazara
Abreu
Jimenez
Collins
Anderson
Robert
Madrigal
Even if you add EE, it doesn’t get this team past 85 wins and the Sox waste $100mil+ that’s better spent next offseason when the prospects have some seasoning.
The FO is copying the flops of the Reds and Phillies.
The Phillies and Reds don’t have half the position talent the Sox do. The Phillies have assembled retreads around a weak core (no depth). The Reds have pitching and not much else (some power but no skilled hitters in their prime). 85 wins in a division with Det, KC, and Cle? You’re basically saying all the players they added via free agency and callups only net them 13 more wins over last season. In a weak division no less. Like, what? You don’t really believe that.
Wsox05- swap Mazara out for Castellenos along with E.E. there are no easy outs in that lineup or Mazara batting 9th on rest days for either Abreu, Grandal, E.E. or Castellanos, scary. Don’t see Eloy hitting in the 3 hole though until he swings a lot less at pitches over his head or in the dirt.
“Don’t see Eloy hitting in the 3 hole though until he swings a lot less at pitches over his head or in the dirt.”
Have you not watched Abreu at all over the last 2 years?
I agree Abreu is no longer a number three guy. Jimenez is suited for that slot. Abreu is a good number 4 guy.
White Sox hitting looks top notch. Hows their rotation and more importantly their bullpen?
@VegasSDfan: I think that is why the Sox are going for pop, they know that some games will be won by a score of 10-9. I think the rotation should be fine, but the one Achilles’ heel the Sox have had has been run production. While Ok last season there were some games where you would watch and just felt like the Sox were done, or they would come up a run short here or there.
In general, I think Madrigal solves the lead off question, so this talk about Anderson Vs Moncada is fairly moot in my opinion.
Last year’s lack of production was due to having Moncada, Anderson and Jiminez all out for three to four weeks at the same time while replacing them with scrubs. The White Sox are going to be a dangerous offensive team when they stay healthy.
2 years ago maybe!
The parrot would be a good addition for the White Sox. I have them winning the division this year unless the Indians make some moves.
The only moves the Indians will make are moving Lindor and/or Clevinger for prospects. They’re no threat.
You stay classy Windy City…. I’m Edwin?
Seriously though EE would be be a great steadying presence to that young lineup.
For what position? Abreu is at 1st, McCann at DH. Maybe trade McCann?
McCann should not be an every day player not to mention a DH. One good half shouldn’t be relied on when the second half was more indicative that he’s likely going to continue performing at his career numbers.
He was an above average hitter last year (118 wRC+). That could have value on the trade market as catcher, but less so at DH.
His OPS as a DH was in the .500s last year.
Signing EE means that the catchers can just worry about catching instead of making a whole bunch of extra appearances at 1B and DH.
EE would be a substantial upgrade. McCann is perfectly suited for the role of backup catcher.
I think that if EE is DH then McCann is going somewhere else as not I’m sure sure that lack of playing time is going to help his bat. Then again, injuries being what they are in the league these days, maybe he will still be around.
White Sox need a Manager !
Here is a Fun Fact…….Cubs will win more games in 2020 than the White Sox !
lol there’s always one buffoon who makes an irrelevant comment. The White Sox signing FAs has no impact on the performance of the Cubs.
And if the Cubbies trade Bryant they’ll be a third place team, in which case the White Sox very well might win more games.
The lowly Cubbies are already a 4th place team with Bryant !!
Here is a fun fact, it doesn’t matter cause they are in different leagues
we need one more trade with the Cubs to put us in the world series..
Ross Detwiler for Bryant!
I think they do it.
LOL….
Of course the Sox would do it but only a fool thinks it would happen
Theo needs to move $$ and get under the luxury tax. Heck, Theo may even throw in Schwarber so Encarnarcion becomes a non concern.
How do you know the Cubs will win more games than the White Sox? Cubs have won less games for their season 3 years in a row and have done zero this offseason while the Sox are on the upswing
Here is a fun fact… neither team will win a World Series in 2020. Congrats on more wins.
The White Sox right now are similar to the Cubs of 2014, making similar off season moves, a young core of talented everyday players. Except 1 important difference. The White Sox have young, in house, pitching talent coming through their system.
Here’s a FUNNER/IRRELEVANTER fact:
The Cubs spent $2.61M per win LY
The Sox spent $1.24M per win LY
Imagine those two being businesses: which CEO is getting fired unless things change quickly?
Here is another fun fact, Cubs fans must secretly love the White Sox since all they appear to do is read, and comment on, White Sox stories. Thank you for your support!
Amen!
Hope they pass on EE. Allow Yermin Mercedes to shine during ST and earn the ABs. The guy can hit .If he doesn’t, the whole flexible DH of Grandal/McCann/Collins/Abreu can work.
Yermin Mercedes? Yer serious?
Yes. Mercedes can hit and confident will prove it further in ST. Even those that scoff or are scared about that calculated risk, WSox don’t need a full-time DH anyhow. IF they are overachieving come July, the unneeded DH money can go toward taking on a reliever in the groove of a good season.
Yermin Mercedes rakes, takes walks, and doesn’t strike out a lot. What’s your problem with him? He absolutely deserves an opportunity to hit at the big league level.
And based on highlights I’ve seen, he might be one of the most fun guys to watch in baseball.
Edwin and Donaldson. Head to playoffs.
Gotta love those playoff tix printed in December. Always a good look.
True dat, dog. True dat.
Brodie says “Go get ’em.”
Learn from past mistakes and better small/mid market teams, save the money, rotate DH’s with matchups, and invest the money in your bullpen or another starter… already spent enough money on hitters this off season.
MLBTR has EE slotted at 1 yr, $8 mill. If the Sox could get him for this, they should jump on it.
Here’s a fun fact. I’m read for baseball and it’s only December. Uggggg
Man I don’t understand how some fans don’t want a DH who had a .875 OPS last year with 34 HR.
I think my barber hit 34 homers last year.
418 AB’s. Not bad at all. 1 every 12.3 AB’s. Don’t think your barber did that.
That’s true. But to be fair, I’m a lousy tipper so what do you expect?
/chuckle/
In all seriousness I didn’t realize hust how valuable EE was last year, thanks for the knowledge.
Age.
His production could fall off a cliff at any moment. He’s perfect for the White Sox, though.
Just like 2015.
You are either the biggest Cubs homer out there (in which case thanks for taking time out of your day to support the White Sox since all you apparently do is read the Sox articles!) or you are a White Sox fan like that character Randy Quaid played was an Indians fan in Major League II (yknow that sad sack that was always dumping on the Indians even though he was a ‘fan’), in which case you are just a laughing stock. Either way, thanks!
Don’t stop now boys!!!
One year deal for EE, then either Vaughn or go all in for JDM with Vaughn coming up later to split time at 1b. I wouldn’t mind this at all. Biggest hole in the lineup would be Mazara or McCann on days he’s catching. That’s not too bad.
“Biggest hole in the line-up would be….” That’s putting an awful lot of faith in Robert and Madrigal, who have zero MLB appearances. As well as Jimenez’s Sept, being his true talent, Moncada’s and Anderson’s BABIP and Abreu halting his decline.
Let’s see: last year, Abreu’s OPS+ was 119. In 2018, it was 117. Yep, a real nose-dive there. And so close to Mazara’s 96. I expect Anderson’s and Moncada’s BABIP to decline – near .400 is unsustainable – but Anderson is fast and Moncada makes solid contact, which helps and both are better hitters even with significant regression than Mazara. As for Robert, call me crazy, but yeah, I expect a guy who had an OPS over 1.000 last year to be better than a guy who couldn’t break an OPS of .800 in a juiced-ball year. Eloy had two hot streaks last year; both came when he had been in a number of games in a row and gotten accustomed to the game at that level. I’m not going to say he’s an MVP candidate or anything ridiculous like that, but if he remains healthy, a .275 BA with 40HR is a realistic stat line, which would be way better than Mazara has ever done. Which leaves Madrigal. I admit, I expect a lot out of Madrigal and his weak contact is his biggest flaw, but he has plus speed and incredible contact skills. If there’s a guy in this group who will be a worse hitter than Mazara, it’s probably Madrigal, but I don’t think so.
Impressed w chi Sox rn…
I’m happy with the degree of risk taking towards contention Hahn has done this winter.
I’m realistic though. I think odds are Giolito will digress some to where the team doesn’t have a true ace. The AL was stacked last year to where 95W was the bar for making the playoffs. I don’t see any reasons why that won’t be the case again.
So let’s just focus on 90W which I’m sure will be more than the CCubs. (Crappy Cubs).
To get to 90W, Rodon must return soon enough & dominate. When healthy he’s done it before & this time they’ve finally corrected what was wrong. I expect him to return stronger than ever & that added velocity should boost his dominant starts.
If this team enters Aug with a debate over who’s the ace (Giolito or Rodon), this team will be on track for 9oW+ & in the conversation for contending for the division.
Both the DK & GG signings are all about keeping the team a dozen or so games above .500 until Rodon is dominating. Imagine this rotation in Aug.
Giolito, Rodon, DK, Kopech, & GG. That might be the strongest 1-5 in the division.
It certainly helps that for soft-tossers like DK & GG, Cooper might be the best in
MLB. Interestingly DK had a higher rate of dominant starts than MadBum. He also had more horrible starts. That’s why I don’t put much stock in avg stats for starters.
DK had 9 dominant starts, & 6 more quality starts last year even with the late season signing. If he can produce 13 dominant starts & 10 more quality starts, he’s a worthy signing.
If most of the starts are 5ip+ & 3runs or less, the bullpen & the lineup will generate the wins. While this article focuses mostly on EE & JA filling the 1B/DH duties I’m thinking more about PH options for the manager. I think this combo could wreak havoc on bullpens.
If the White Sox were to sign Encarnacion that might wind up making McCann a trade asset. Because if you now have Abreu as 1B and Encarnacion as the full time DH that really limits the chances of McCann being able to get any ABs other than when he spells Grandal (which doesn’t figure to be all that often given the amount they’ve invested in him – and how good he is) – not sure what his trade value would be as other than the first half of last season he hasn’t exactly been all that great – the lack of other solid C options in FA or via trade could make him valuable enough for the Sox to get a decent player or two in return which could be worth doing!
I don’t think they would, or need to trade McCann. Grandal will play some 1B. The drop off between, him and Collins or Sevala is significant. McCann will get at least 50 to 60 starts behind the plate and will most likely be Giolito’s personal catcher given their work this past season.
Any good ball club utilizes two quality catchers. Grandal and McCann could be the best catcher corps in the league. The Sox will keep both.
McCann has no trade value.
One BABIP fueled half season by a horrible defensive C doesn’t fool modern FO’s.
A catcher who can hit always has trade value.
Agreed. Hitting is always s plus especially for a back up catcher. McCann has value
EE would be solid acquisition and perfect bridge for one year as Vaughn gets ready to take 1B and Abreu transitions to DH. Make it happen and pick up one more bullpen arm and Sox will be decent for 2020
Please No. Collins is going to be a Star and nothing should get in the way of his development.
McCann’s signed to a 1-year contract. That gives Collins time to develop, and possibly take McCann’s spot. I haven’t heard too many good things about Collins’ work behind the plate though. If he can’t catch, he may not be a good fit with the Sox longterm.
They need to fix their defense. Not bring in another player who’s ideally suited to DH.
Love the moves the Sox are making this off season; exactly what my Blue Jays should be doing.
White Sox are putting a nice little team together.
One year deal with performance incentives. Still a basher at age 37 next month. Can’t play defense but would definitely help the offense.
He would be a great add. I honestly think the Sox have made some dumb long term moves this offseason but this would be a homerun on a short term deal. A cheaper big bat in the middle of the order. Guys like EE and Nelson Cruz put the NL teams at a big disadvantage with no dh
Which dumb longterm moves have the Sox made?
Asking a troll to explain themselves is illogical
The White Sox have been aggressive and their longest deal is 4 years with dollar amounts that are really not that bad in todays market.
I’m good with the White Sox signing DH Edwin Encarnacion to an inexpensive short term free agent contract this offseason. I’d prefer they first target RF Yasiel Puig for a similar deal before settling on EE.
I’d like to see Puig as the White Sox primary RF over Nomar Mazara because he is a better defender and has a stronger throwing arm. With Puig in RF, lefty hitting Mazara can be his backup while also becoming their primary DH with excellent splits versus RHP.
That’s not to say the White Sox couldn’t sign both Puig and EE but that might be overkill trying to find enough PA’s for that trio between two positions with other candidates also in the mix to DH like 1B Jose Abreu and all three of their anticipated catchers for 2020. I also chose both Encarnacion and Puig to sign with the White Sox in the MLBTR 2019-20 Free Agent Prediction Contest giving me additional motivation for them adding both. Thus far, the White Sox are the only team I have guessed correctly on with multiple picks. I had Yasmani Grandal and Dallas Keuchel each signing FA contracts with them as well as Abreu returning. I think I’ve only picked 4 additional free agents correctly thus far.
Puig almost certainly will not be signed by the Sox for a reason that you didn’t mention. Puig is a clubhouse cancer. The Sox have a core of young Latin players who will be one of the keys to their success, along with a mentor in Jose Abreu. Puig would be nothing but a disruptive force and is not the long term solution in RF, the Sox have several candidates including Mazara for the spot
Mazara isn’t a longterm answer either. The Sox need a RF who can provide good offensive production and play the position competently.
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I think Puig is the best option. He’s matured since his time with LA, and I think Renteria and Abreu could have a positive influence on him enough to keep him focused. It’s too late now I guess.
Hard pass on Puig. He’s proven to be too big of a distraction.
A counter to that is IF Puig can’t do much better than a 1yr deal with the WSox to provide solid defense in RF (help rookie Robert already covering for Eloy’s poor LF defense), he should be motivated to be a good teammate with tolerable quirks to restore his value next offseason.
Probably moot since someone will offer him at least a 2yr deal.
The last guy I want mentoring any one of the our young players is Puig. That’s like asking Antonio Brown to mentor a rookie WR. Noooo thanks.
If any of you cared to read the Bruce Levine link he also mentions the possibility of the White Sox having interest in Yasiel Puig as an alternative to Edwin Encarnacion. His reasoning for adding Puig was as a platoon option with Nomar Mazara in RF. That notion makes less sense than my idea where Puig would become the White Sox primary RF with Mazara his backup with the latter also assuming regular PA’s as the White Sox DH versus right-handed pitching because of his great splits as a left-handed hitter versus them.
Puig actually hits right-handed hitting better than southpaws which is why I had him as the White Sox primary starting RF in addition to his superior defensive skills over Mazara.
If Yasiel Puig was in the NFL he would be called Antonio Brown.
There is a reason he is still rolling around.
BEWARE.
When he is motivated to play well. Puig is a child sometimes, and that will not bode well in a clubhouse of younger players.
The team should absolutely take a look at Puig.
He has never been on a team lead by a Latin coach, and would be surrounded with fellow countrymen and veterans.
They also need to address the fact they will feature two beer leaguers in the corners.
I think Puig is well worth a one-year deal with an option, and frankly, old prefer him to EE, whom they can sign next year. Or, take both, as Puig will come cheap.
This is a much stronger clubhouse than the one with Sale and Eaton.
No deal for Puig in Chitown. Sox traded for Mazara when they knew Puig was available. The younger lefty hitting Mazara has good power but needs to cut down on his strikeouts. He is a work in progress. Puig brings in his noisy drama king persona and who needs it? Not the Sox front office. EE would be the better choice at DH for a year or two.
Aaron, no, no, & no on a wildcard like Puig. Dude is a headcase. For these people wanting to add C. Dickerson, NO. Maybe 2 yrs ago okay. E.E. can hit 41/123 in 120 games at Comiskey, sign him for 2 yrs. I’d rather have Nelson Cruz but Rick let the Twins snatch him up last yr. Landing E.E. & Castellanos would be great. Sox lineup would be ferocious.
The White Sox are going to be talking with the Mets about Céspedes!
If the Sox sign EE they will not sign Castellanos or Osuna since the DH spot was suppose to help accommodate both players (Mazza / RF) using a righty / lefty strategy
That’s why I don’t really want EE. They really should be looking to rotate DH and for guys with greater versatility.
Castellanos can probably play first, since he was 3b originally.
This is setting up for baseball to be on strike when the Sox are ready to win.
Wouldn’t be the first time
Ok. I want to throw this out there and hope it is not taken wrong. Are our 2 Chicago teams racially identifiable in there lineups? The Whitesox assuming they add Encanarcion, Castellanos, or Osuna will have counting the DH 8 out of 9 starters that are Latin. The starting pitchers look half and half. The Cubs on the other hand have only 2 Latin players currently in Baez and Contreras. Thats assuming Almora isn’t your starting centerfielder. Are the Cubs predominantly White and the Sox predominantly Latin? Is this a coincidence or is management playing to their base? I personally only care about winning so please don’t accuse me of being a racist. I just thought it was an interesting topic to discuss
@Rhino25
There might be a little something to it on the Sox end because of the strong Cuban connection, but overall I think it’s just the way things fell over the last several seasons. There are so many good Latin players, that’s probably why it seems like there are so many on certain teams.
Just touching on a few players: for the Sox, they signed the best young Int’l player at the time when they got Robert. Ditto for Abreu. Their 3 big trades netted Yoan, Eloy, Lopez, and to a much lesser extent Basabe, which was due to them being great prospects that were available in those trades.
It doesn’t hurt the Sox to have strong lines in the Latin countries (especially Cuba), but I’m sure that’s not the driving factor in getting a player.
That’s a pretty racist thing to point out, to be honest.
Yah, that’s not really racist at all…
It’s not racist. It’s marketing and good business. The Cubs own approximately 60% of market in Chicago. The demographic that has grown the most in Chicago in the last decade? Latinos. The Sox are trying to grow their business and targeting people that are not already Cubs fans.
chicagobusiness.com/article/20150314/ISSUE01/15031…
Prepare to get lit up by cubs fans, lifting the veil like that. Truth is, the cubs have always been a mostly white club. At any given time, they might have A black position player, and A blackish pitcher, but that’s about it. They remind of the Bears with QBs. They won’t draft a black(ish) QB no matter how talented they are (Mahomes, Watson). But I digress. The White Sox have always fielded a diverse roster.
@Rhino25, This is an interesting topic. Last time I went to GRF it was me and my 70yr old mother about six rows back from 1st base. She hasn’t really kept up with the White Sox since she moved to Florida in the 90’s. The Ballpark has a very different vibe, playing mostly latin or salsa music for walk ups. I found myself talking up one player after the next, who are all Latin Americans, to the point I almost felt uncomfortable that I don’t speak any Spanish at all.
But coming from a culturally accepting family, I did take Argentine Tango lessons for a couple years, a very seductive and passionate dance. But it is a different vibe from the North side, where they still sing kinda cheesy songs from local folk singers and Eddie Vedder.
Don’t get me wrong, we still have moments of “Thunderstruck” and “Enter Sandman”, but the rest is mostly an ethnic sound which adds a new spice to watching the game. Not to mention a whole new variety of eating options. For me, the tacos just taste so much better than the nasty hotdogs and pizza. So we are entering some new and exciting times.
FIRST—the Sox position players in 2020-2024 look to be at least 2/9 American. You said it would be 8 out of 9 but it’s 7 out of 9.
Tim Anderson and Nick Madrigal are both American.
Tim, obviously though is black — so it is safe to say that the Sox will be only 1/9th white american position players for most as the roster is currently constructed, with the exception of backup catcher James McCann who is gone next year.
SECOND— By 2021 Andrew Vaughn should be up and Sox position players should be 3 American and 6 Latino.
THIRD—-
the most important pitchers in the rotation and pen for the Sox for the next 4-5 years are: Lopez, Gonzales, and Colomé and then Keuchal, Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Bummer, Stiever, Dunning, Rodón.
After Colomé and Gio Gonzales leave next year, Lopez will be our only really important Latin American pitcher left.
FOURTH— the league as a whole is divided about 50/50 between international players and us-born players. So it is really just that the cubs are out of sync with the league. The White Sox are only a little more tilted towards international players than average.
FIFTH— I don’t think that is because the Sox have intentionally tried to get more Latin players, it’s because our attempts to draft homegrown players have sucked so bad. Noticeably, all the American players on our team were guys we drafted. Bummer / Timmy / Madrigal / Vaughn.
Everyone saw we had to trade for in the rebuild.
SIXTH —- it’s not racist to talk about this stuff. *talking* about race is not racism. Quite the opposite. You can’t confront real racism until you talk openly about race. For example, I am only just now realizing that the entire white Sox pitching staff is kind of slanted towards white starters. Maybe the reason Lopez has been having so much trouble developing as a starter with the Sox is that he doesn’t feel comfortable there? Our team is so segregated between its position players and its pitchers.
Also— the cubs are reallllllly white. What’s that about?
The White Sox primary starting lineup in 2020 figures to have 7 hispanic players.
The White Sox expected starting rotation for 2020 figures to be 7 deep once Michael Kopech and Carlos Rodon return fully healthy and ready to go after their TJ procedures. All but Reynaldo Lopez are American born including Gio Gonzalez who was born in Hialeah, FL. The other Americans are Lucas Giolito, Dallas Keuchel and Dylan Cease. American’s Dane Dunning and Jimmy Lambert who are also rehabbing from their own TJ surgeries would be next up on the SP depth chart at #8 and #9.
The White Sox expected 2020 bullpen is a mix with Dominican closer Alex Colome, setup man Kelvin Herrera and perhaps Jimmy Cordero along with maybe another hispanic in Venezuelan Jose Ruiz. The remaining relievers and top candidates are all American. They include southpaws Aaron Bummer and Jayce Fry along with righty Evan Marshall. Dylan Covey and Carson Fulmer figure to compete for the long man role this spring while Zack Burdi and Ian Hamilton also vie for spots in the bullpen. The White Sox also figure to add one more significant bullpen arm via free agency or a trade before spring training.
The White Sox are expected to carry 3 catchers in 2020, Two are American in James McCann and Zack Collins.
The White Sox remaining expected bench is 2/3 American with INF Danny Mendick and OF Adam Engel. The third is versatile INF/OF Leury Garcia who is Dominican.
Bottom Line: As we post, the expected White Sox 26-man roster looks to be split pretty evenly among American and foreign born players which is probably in line with most other clubs.
I’m not sure what to think of this. In isolation, EE would be a smart add at DH.
I guess my problem is I’m not sure what direction Hahn’s going with the offense as a whole. It seems like he’s just plugging holes.
The Mazara trade was a head-scratcher. He’s technically an upgrade at RF, but that speaks volumes about what they had in RF. Personally I would’ve went after Avi, assuming he would even want to come back to Chicago. I’d be more comfortable with Avi than Mazara in RF.
Who plays 2B until Madrigal comes up? I’m not very confident in Mendick/Leury manning 2B, let alone a dumpster dive. Unless they can sign Yolmer back, which I’m not holding my breath.
Now back to EE. If they sign him, what are they going to do with Collins? Yes, EE’s an upgrade right now, but you’re either going to trade Collins (even though he has little trade value right now), send him back down to AAA (which will further kill his trade value), or play him once or twice a week (we saw how well that worked out for him in June/July). Again, EE’s the obvious better option right now, but it’s a little early to give up on Collins with his whopping 86 career AB.
Maybe I’m overthinking this and should take the easy choice at this time and hope they sign EE. Or sign a RF and hope Mazara cuts it at DH if they can’t sign EE. Maybe the offensive blueprint will make more sense to me when I see it in March. Pitching looks set, outside of maybe a reliever or two. Regardless, the offense should be better than this past season, hopefully by a lot.
Now I see they are linked to Cast again. Don’t know how serious it is, and more importantly, is it going to be one or the other (EE and Cast) or are they trying to go after both.
If it’s both, it makes Mazara an even bigger waste of a trade. And it makes me wonder if they will try to trade Mazara, since I can’t imagine they want a $6MM bench player (otherwise they would’ve kept Yolmer).
If this is the case, they better send Collins down, because he won’t sniff any AB at the DH position, and at this pace he would be lucky to match his 68 career AB in ’20.
This did absolutely nothing to clear the confusion I have toward Hahn’s line of thinking regarding the offense. I suppose I should treat these for what they are–rumors. I gotta quit reading these rumors until these guys get signed.
Mazara, Waste of a trade already? 1) Sox didn’t give up the next Konerko, not by a long shot 2) taking a flyer on young left handed power is never a bad idea. Keep calm and Sox on.
@Whifff
OK, you got me there, sloppy phrasing on my part. Though I think Mazara would’ve been a better add last Winter (or the Winter before). If the Sox are going all in this year, and it looks a lot like they are, I don’t think this was a great move, especially since it looks like they’re already looking to supplant him in RF before he’s ever swung a bat in a Sox uniform. He’s a pretty big gamble or the Sox.
Personally, I think it’s a year too soon for them to go all in. Not that I’m complaining as long as they can pull it off and not ruin the team long-term. I think even if they add Cast and EE, they’re about an 85 win team. They could win more since they’re in MLB’s toilet division. Too many guys are still uncertainties or at least will have their share of struggles in ’20 (Kopech, Cease, Lopez, Madrigal, Robert, etc).
I hope I’m wrong about Mazara and all he needs is a change of scenery (you never know), and I hope I’m wrong that they’re an 85 win team. I’d love to see this team in the playoffs in ’20, but right now I think it’s a year early for that.
I suppose the one thing you can’t blast Hahn for this off-season is sitting on his hands.
I think they should trade for a 2B utility player to hold down 2B and eventually platoon w/ Madrigal until he is ready. I am all for signing EE to a 1-2 year deal if the Sox are going for it this or next year. If they are going for it then the Sox also should pick up another OFer capable of playing all 3 positions well defensively w at least average batting skills. It would also not hurt to pick up some more pitching just in case the new guys still need to iron things out or someone gets hurt. As for the current players on the ox roster most can be back at AAA , DFAed or traded for needs. Collins though maybe should be held onto as a replacement for McCann next year unless they think Zavala is the next catcher up. After the current moves this off season the Sox have put together a good team but they need a veteran SP, OFer & DH to finish filling the holes in the roster and they will be stacked.
The interest is puzzling. They would be better served to have the DH spot open for many of their players to fill. They sacrifice versatility and defense by plugging encarnacion there for the year. There’s only so many at-bats to go around. Mistake.
Get a real DH
Every time they put Abreu there he doesn’t hit same with Eloy
Just sign him and try and hit 300 hr
The rotating DH is never a good ideal. We have tried it a couple times in the past. It’s a free spot in the lineup the plug a .900 ops guy like EE. That is far more valuable than defensive versatility
We have only really tried it with bad players…
If the plan is to sign Castellanos or Ozuna and rotate him with Jiminez/Abreu/Mazera at DH then fine. That seems like a bit of a luxury to spend that much more just for defensive flexibility but its not my money
If the plan is to rotate with McCain/Leury types then I think it’s a huge mistake.
Not racist at all. Never said anything negative about anyone’s race. Stated that upfront. I guess it wasnt politically correct enough for you. I tried to word it the best I could. At least one person gave an intelligent answer in regards to the Cuban connection with Abreau/ Robert etc. Disappointed you went there Moneyballer
Forget the Old EE.
Still has pop but White Sox have had too many decades of almost done players.
Young team needs an age ceiling when possible.
2019 Salary $114 Million. 2020 Salary, as of 12/23 $140.Million
Two White Sox must haves:
Nick Castallanos RHB Corey Dickerson LHB
27 years old (cost ???) 30 years old, (cost $15 mil two years)
2019 Stats
At Bats 615 / *260
Runs 100 / 33
Hits 178 / 79
Singles 90 / 37
Doubles 58 / 28
Triples 3 / 2
Home Runs 27 / 12
RBI 73 / 59
Stolen Bases 2 / 1
Caught Stealing 2 / 0
Walks 41 / 16
Strikeouts 143 / 56
Batting Average .289 / .304
On Base Pct .337 / .341
Slugging Pct .525 / .565
On-base Plus Slugging .863 / .906
just sign him
White Sox are going to end up with EE or Castellanos by morning. This sounds like some agent/GM gamesmanship happening.
DEC. 24: The White Sox are now very very serious.
Very
EE hit 34 HRs in 418 ABs last year. That’s one per 12.3 ABs. I’m surprised more teams couldn’t use a DH like that.
BLUEJAYS!
I don’t care if the Sox field a team of Tele-tubbies as long as they win a W.S. or 2 in the next 6 years
I hate this. Collins is going to be very good and taking AB’s away from him is a mistake. There is still development to be had this coming season, Collins, Madrigal, Robert, Cease, Kopeck. These guys are going to struggle but it has to happen. The real window is 21-25.
These are short term contracts, so Collins still has a shot. He’ll have to earn it. If he can’t catch, he might not fit the roster. Remember Vaughn’s an elite prospect too.
Are you related to him, cause there are absolutely no indicators that collins is gonna be “very good”. None. Zero. Zilch.
yeah, let’s not sign up 40hr on an 1 year 8 mil deal after making moves to compete now after years of total crap so Zack Collins can strike out 178 times with a dozen homers.
EE would actually be best move for collins cause he should be catching every day in minors… still has a ton of D work to and lets face it, he hardly tore up AA/AAA pitching those would not be wasted AB’s…
Collins hasn’t had enough At Bats to make a determination whether he will be good or not. Maybe after 500 plate appearances. If he’s still not making solid contact, send him down or trade him.
The problem is, he won’t get those AB’s if they sign a DH. He clearly won’t be catching with grandal signing, so 1B/DH are going to be his only opportunities on this team. Vaughn will be here soon, which leaves only DH for him. With the signings this offseason, they pretty much HAVE to trade Collins because he will have no spot on the team. He’s an older prospect too, so sending him to AAA for another couple years doesn’t make any sense at this point.
He’s gotta compete like everyone else.
If ee plays say 3/4 more years and hits 500+ homeruns is he a hall of fame candidate? Pretty strong resume late in his career
We were promised player development, more analytics and better drafting and scouting to achieve a “critical mass” of quality young talent.
Instead it’s more 30 somethings, bounceback, BABIP mirage or fliers on late bloomers and a fatal lack of depth.
Fingers crossed is no way to build a legitimate multi-year contender.
Why do you even bother being a fan? Must be a barrel of laughs at the Ppalma residence.
The “30 somethings” won’t be around for long (short term contracts). You can’t waste time developing everybody. Once you have a core of cheap, young talent, you go for it.
Ok. If the Whitesox get Castellanos there remaining need is a relief pitcher. Would you package Collins and Basabe for Hader? Or is that not enough to get him?
Hader has been used and abused. Stearns is very smart to float his availability/sell high.
WSox can wait on bullpen until midseason if they are overachieving. Rodon could be a candidate for some electric BP work when he is ready.
Yea if they get him and NC then they will have like 5-6 ideal DH hitters on their team
Honestly Castellanos played a pretty decent right field for the Cubs last season
Short sample size. He’s a below average fielder according to metrics. Not ideal in RF.
Yea he’s not tori hunter but Detroit has to be one of biggest RF in baseball
White Sox have opened contract extension talks with outfielder Luis Robert. No details on willingness or expectation but the deal would likely be in the 8 year $80-$90 million range.
That means no delay in bring him up. Robert would be in CF at the Opener 2020.
Now package Engel, Fulmer, Garcia and Mercedes or Zavala for Josh Harder
Keep Adam. Trade Gio!
Trade Engel sign Dickerson
You do realize that Harder is with the Brewers.
Gio was on the Brewers in 2018 and 2019.
Gonzalez was not resigned by the Brewers and did not receive a qualifying offer from Milwaukee,
My question is why would the Brewers trade Harder for a pitcher they just cut loose?
Being a Cuban free agent he had a payday already like Moncada. I don’t see him signing an extension. I wouldn’t.
As a White Sox fan I hope we sign EE for 1 year with a club option for next year, since Vaughn will be coming up next year so.
Very serious- of course they are. That Ricky is a baaad man!!!
Vision of a chainsmoking Rick Hahn channelling his inner John Candy as Uncle Buck, finishing his shopping in one fell swoop on XMas eve at the White Hen, holding up the line as he keeps adding to his purchases, slapping down greasy $20 bills on the counter earned from a really good afternoon playing the ponies at Maywood
Lol!
The Pale Hose are quietly getting MUCH better!!!
White Sox are going to be serious contenders in the central!
Dang dude, the ChiSox are killing it this offseason. Kind of reminiscent of their efforts in 2005. Good job ChiSox and fans, your team is serious about winning. Love to see that in competing teams!
Edwin doesnt have it anymore — couldnt catch up with the fastball in the playoffs — Sox would be better off signing an OF
With stories out about EE and Castellanos being linked to the Sox, that means that those two have 0% chance of signing with the team and that there’s a strong chance of Ozuna signing with them instead.
Dang. I missed the obvious. You’re right. Well played.