1:40PM: Momentum towards a deal is building and there’s increased optimism that a trade—or trades—will take place, and there’s a chance that an announcement could come as early as today, according to Neal. The Twins and Dodgers are in direct discussions and Heyman reports that their part of the deal is “pretty set,” with Maeda heading to the Twins and Graterol going the other way. For what it’s worth, Neal adds that the Twins are now “expected to get a little more” than Maeda. If Heyman is correct, then the last remaining hurdle will be for the Dodgers to refine their package for Betts. Speculatively, that could involve Graterol being flipped to Boston, but the Boston Globe’s Alex Speier tweeted earlier that Graterol isn’t expected to be dealt to the Red Sox as part of any trade.
10:11AM: The Twins are indeed still involved in talks, though that doesn’t necessarily mean a three-team trade is happening, as Jon Heyman and The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal explain (both links to Twitter). The Twins “are working hard to satisfy [the] Dodgers and the Dodgers are working hard to satisfy [the] Red Sox, ” Rosenthal writes, but negotiations could result in two separate trades. One deal between the Dodgers and Red Sox would send Verdugo and prospects to Boston and Betts and Price to L.A., and another swap between the Dodgers and Twins would see Maeda go to Minnesota and Graterol possibly be part of a trade package going to Los Angeles. As Heyman notes, “non-Boston docs seem to have no big issue with Graterol [medicals],” so the Dodgers might be satisfied in accepting the young righty in exchange for Maeda.
TODAY, 8:51AM: The involved parties are “hopeful” that a Betts trade can be worked out, MLB Network’s Jon Heyman tweets, as there has been “progress” in talks. Notably, Heyman tagged the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Twins in his tweet, which could hint that a three-team arrangement is still possible.
FEBRUARY 8: The Twins’ portion of the proposed three-team trade that would send Mookie Betts to the Dodgers is in jeopardy, according to La Velle E. Neal III of the Star Tribune. Talks between the Twins, Dodgers, and Red Sox are ongoing and the current iteration of the trade is not entirely dead, according to reports from Joel Sherman of the New York Post and others, but the Twins have requested a prompt resolution one way or another. It seems there’s growing pessimism about the Twins’ involvement in the trade, so the Dodgers and Red Sox may have to explore alternative pathways towards its completion.
As part of the trade, the Twins were expected to send right-hander Brusdar Graterol to the Red Sox, receiving Kenta Maeda in return and allowing the Dodgers to acquire Betts and David Price. However, after the Red Sox balked at Graterol’s medical history with questions about his long-term role, they requested another prospect from the Twins and talks have stalled. MLB Network’s Jon Heyman suggests that the Twins have expressed a willingness to include one of their top-20 prospects to push the deal across the goal line, but even that hasn’t met the Red Sox’ heightened asking price.
If the Twins do indeed back out of the deal, the Dodgers and Red Sox could still try to complete the trade themselves or rope in a new third team to facilitate the mega-deal. For the time being, though, the prospect of a Betts trade appears to have hit a considerable setback. With the Red Sox’ insistence on acquiring another of the Twins’ top prospects and Minnesota’s reluctance to concede, little progress has been made since the deal was first reported on Tuesday and something will have to give if the trade is to be completed.
In its entirety, the trade would have sent Betts and David Price to the Dodgers, while Alex Verdugo and Graterol would wind up in Boston with Maeda joining the Twins. In addition, the Dodgers and Angels had agreed in principle to a separate trade that would send Joc Pederson and Ross Stripling to the crosstown Angels in exchange for Luis Rengifo and unidentified prospects. That deal, though, was contingent on the completion of the Dodgers/Red Sox/Twins swap and now itself appears in limbo.
Many around the game have voiced their frustration with the drama that has resulted from the Red Sox’ hesitation. MLBPA head Tony Clark, agent Scott Boras, and Angels owner Arte Moreno have all commented on the wide-ranging consequences of the delay. And with pitchers and catchers reporting to camp in the coming days, some of the players involved could be placed in awkward situation in which they would return to a team that has essential already agreed to trade them.
So while the Boston faithful may rejoice that their star outfielder remains with the team for the time being, it’s hard to envision a scenario in which Betts, or any of the players involved, reports to Spring Training with their original teams. That alone should provide ample impetus to finalize the trade in short order. Whether that means the Red Sox following through with the trade as originally agreed to, or the inclusion of another piece to appease Boston, we’ll have to wait and find out.
Wtf! Ouch
I did not like that trade at all. The Red Sox needed to acquire more for Mookie Betts.
BOS should have asked for a manager.
I can only imagine there’s still a trade getting done
Rocco Baldelli would go to Bos in a heartbeat
Why? He did great where he’s at…..and Boston is home to more cheaters.
If Dave Roberts was mine to give , you could have him.
Hey, Roberts is a good possibility. Dodgers could have Babe Ruth and Roberts would figure out a way to screw it up.
Bwahaha!
Send them Roberts for Mookie!
Boston is home for cheaters ? I guess Cleveland is home to wife beaters and domestic abusers!
I also forgot that Lebrun James left Cleveland twice for a reason !
Who is Lebrun James? Maybe edit before you decided to provide nothing but negative thoughts to a conversation.
So you really don’t know who he’s referring to? Or just want to add to the negativity as well?
Red Sox general manager should be fired
That is so funny because its so obvious…and no one thought if it…
Well Done!!!
Fire the GM?..How’s that?…each team doesn’t get the players medical information until they have agreed to a deal in principle..and submitted it to the commissioners office.
That’s like you being fired because you didn’t do what your boss wanted…before he even told you.
Fire the GM?..How’s that?…each team doesn’t get the players medical information until they have agreed to a deal in principle..and submitted it to the commissioners office.
That’s like you being fired because you didn’t do what your boss wanted…before he even told you.
Ruth doesn’t hit like he used to
Agreed. Chaim Bloom has done a poor job. Passed up on Holt and Shaw and said Shaw was too much money yet signs Peraza (who isn’t as good) and pays Mookie and Benintendi. Now he can’t get the Betts trade done. I knew we couldn’t accept the trade until it was absolutely certain.
Dave Roberts and Joe Kelly to Boston.
All these comments including many of my own. My personal assessment has changed to something so simple that others have inferred but not said this way: despite last years injuries, the team thought he could be a starter. That changed after seeing his medicals and they then must have thought “been there, done that” already. From envisioning another Nolan Ryan or pre-PED Roger Clemons, their assessment became another Joe Kelly or Matt Barnes.
@stepup
Maybe shut up before you provide nothing but negative thoughts to a conversation as well
Exactly…louie, they don’t get the medicals until the deal is agreed to in principle and submitted to the commissioners office…
Your trading for a starter…who was used as a reliever but the medicals indicate he was being used that way not because he was a young pitcher getting his feet wet in the bigs…but because of medical reasons.
Ha perhaps, but that should be coming from the Dodgers not the Twins.
Now Boston is back in Luxury tax problems without the bailout by the Dodgers and stuck with unhappy Price with that massive contract which means that they will be out of the Mookie sweepstakes next year with less money to spend on him when Mookie tests free agency.
Frank… you are exactly right.
Great well they go for a title this year with basically their title squad in place. And they don’t get stuck paying a 5’8” speedy outfielder $38m when he’s 38 years ten years into the future what a tragedy.
Bailout by the Dodgers?????????
Price was already unhappy. He liked his big fat contract but never liked Boston.
Dodgers send Dustin May and the Red Sox agree to accept less of a bailout the next time – the third time – The Dodgers and Mark Walter bail out the Red Sox and John Henry.
When is someone going to demand an answer from Mark Walter and John Henry as to how much Mark Walter owed John Henry and what is the nature of this sum owed from?
Lol cause speed is all Mookie brings to the game
That’s been the word on the street, yeah.
Lol…..Dustin May is not going anywhere for anyone.
Not May, but I think the Dodgers should go ahead and include Gonsolin IF they can keep the Twins in at and acquire Gaterol themselves for the bullpen.
About the dodgers give us pederson and a top prospect
I agree. Maybe Santana and Busch. Not as though la couldn’t use him in the bullpen.
That’s…..right! Lord help the big priced pitcher in Boston, who never earns his pay. I’ll give you 2018 Price pitched them to a WS win, n the fans loved him for that.
Love getting a bailout from a team owner who hasn’t won since purchasing the club. I hate arrogance from fans who are simply jealous. Imagine that other teams fans are jealous of Red Sox fans. Times have changed since I grew up with those 1918 chants at Yankee Stadium in the late 70s.
Cause the RedSox need 4 LH OF?
Not true. They could keep Mookie and trade Price and JBJ and still be under the $208M and avoid the CBT penalties. That includes paying 50% of Price’s contract. Then they continue to negotiate with Mookie. They can pay them what he wants if they so choose. That’s up to ownership. He’s under contract for this year at $27M. I believe the Dodgers trade still happens in one form or another. We shall see.
Mookie & Boston are done. This year, next year, doesnt matter. The trade is still gonna happen with or without minnesota.
The feeling was mutual.
We were out of the Mookie sweepstakes regardless. We aren’t outbidding the Yankees or the Dodgers.
Then no deal
Love your username, McBride. You should upload a picture of Bake and his afro.
Oh so Price was happy but now is not? Oh that is a surprise
Frank…the part of the deal with the RS and Dodgers is fine…Betts, Price and Verdugo will go…but now the Red sox will receive 2 prospects from LA… not the Twins
They needed a new set of trash cans.
Wrong team ace.
Two top 100 prospect and 45 million toward proce is a great deal.
No it’s not. There’s a reason no other club has met the price Einstein
RS are not eating $45M of Price contract.. they are not doing that.. Price and Betts were due $49 this year..Sox Sending $9M back to LA this year..2 remaining years of Price after that to be determined based on availability.
If you think the Dodgers are going to go over the threshold for Price, you are crazy.
No one wants Price.
Dont force the team getting him to absorb Price and you will get a better number for Betts!
It would’ve been nice to have Betts I don’t know if the Dodgers really need them but it would’ve been nice In the dodger line up
The Red Sox are not just trading Betts, they forcing a team to take on Price. No one want’s Price. Betts for five years of Verdugo and a top 100 prospect isn’t a bad deal, may be light, but once they include Price, they were lucky to get that.
Not when they are paying half of prices contract it isn’t
Not when they are paying half of prices contract it isn’t
No wants Price at half his price.
Price us a valuable pitcher, everyone forgets that. The Dodgers are a helleva team with Orice n then Mookie too. They need to get it done. The Twins just wanted to not give quality for quality. Trades supposed to help BOTH teams not just one or another. Will some of the teams please think about the fans for once n not one up man ship.
The Red Sox have been trying to dump Price for four months. They have been willing to eat a great deal of his salary. No one wants him.
You know the word “and” exists, right?
Excellent Point! The Dodgers certainly do not want Price and the cost on Betts for the Dodgers would have been much higher if Price were not attached.
Clearly, if Price at half his Price were available all off season for a marginal prospect, no other team was interested in taking Price off the Red Sox hands.
Seems like they could find several teams that would want Maeda besides the Twins.
Exactly that’s why there’s not a lot of prospects involved in the Betts trade If the Red Sox weren’t tagging Price with Betts you would get more prospects And the Red Sox desperately need to cut payroll right now there handcuffed
I think the Dodgers are better off just hanging on to their great starter depth by keeping Maeda and Stripling. That’s better than taking a chance on Price for $16 million a year or whatever they end up paying him.
They were getting fair value for a rental
Sure. Wait another year and get nothing and still have an overpaid pitcher.
And yet now they are probably going to get much much less.
They won’t and you should look up the definition of the word need. He’s not worth more than that and that’s not an opinion.
Except now they’ll get pennies on the dollar at the deadline, …or nothing if they play him out; and are stuck with Price’s 90m… if there was a better offer on the table, …it would’ve been done. Theyre not going to improve on it and they’ve burnt the bridge to resign betts in the offseason. Brutal.
Nope, only in your dreams.
Once the Sox became hesitant about Graterol, I wished the trade was just adjusted with how much of Price’s contract was covered in order to balance it out.
However they adjust it, it’s not going to work unless the Angels, Dodgers and Red Sox can all stay under the cap. I don’t think you can adjust the salaries enough to make that happen.
I wasn’t talking about anything drastic. Something more like the Twins kicking back 5 mil/yr to Boston or 2.5 mil/yr from both the Twins and LA for the last 3 years of Price’s contract.
I think the only team that can kick money back in the deal are the Twins. The Angels maybe a little, the Dodgers and Red Sox are so close to the threshold I don’t think they can kick back anything.
But I’m all for the Angels and Twins ponying up a little money. But are they? Is that all the Red Sox want?
4life- I don’t think the Sox care about the money once below the threshold. Boston was hoping they were getting a prospect from Minnesota who had potential to be an ace… or at least a quality piece in the starting rotation. Instead best case his potential seems to be a closer… or at least a middle reliever. Getting 5M extra doesn’t make that ok… they aren’t getting that starter with that money.
They would care if they were in the playoff hunt this year and looking to add at the trade deadline. That 5 mil could make a big difference on what kind of player/players they could add to the roster.
Twins are under no obligation to help bail Boston out of their financial crisis. From their perspective, they were dealing away Graterol for Maeda. That was the value assigned and agreed to. They owe Boston nothing. But there is nothing to prohibit Twins from making a separate deal straight up with Dodgers while Boston can pay some big taxes and watch Price and Eck land on the Jerry Springer Show..
They’re getting salary relief.
No doubt! how is it that the Dodgers having great prospects and the Red Sox are not demanding not one and to boot the fools are handing down 50 mil to the Dodgers. The Sox are asking just lost
What more can They ask for? They’re already getting a huge amount of salary relief plus a top proven Prospect in Verdugo. It’s basically a salary dump and a one-year rental for a five year player and the opportunity to spend hell of money later
They did, they got rid of Price.
I agree, The Twins are trying to get a #3 starter for a pitching prospect who may be damaged goods. They should add P Jordan Balazovic to their part of the swap.
And what else should the Twins get in return then in addition to Maeda? Graterol and Balazovic for Maeda is a massive overpay.
I’m biased about Balazovic, but also correct.
HaHa, anything else you want?
Just add to cart.lol.
Hilarious. Why should Boston be concerned about what MN pays for someone like Maeda. Twins have no skin in the financial bail out game. They have no responsibility for the BSox financial mess and poor farm. Graterol looked good against the Yanks last fall. Minnie will be happy to keep him.
Only a Red Sox homer would have that take. Absurd
1 year of Betts, Sox are screwing the pooch in the end.
Yeah if he had more then one year! 1/2 of Price contract & $27 million-you ain’t getting much more! + Verdugo is a great fun young talent!
Why? He’s a one year rental. Boston is smart for doing this.
Understandable that you may not liked the trade, but for the Red Sox to agree then turn around and ask for additional compensation and saying it’s Graterol’s medical status when it may be Boston fan reaction, doesn’t drip with character.
Well the adding of Price and his 36 million is what stops more.
francys08, I keep hearing the argument “the Red Sox should’ve got more” from all the sports pundits.
Dammit people! If you only have 1 team ( ok, 2 if you really count the Padres, but c’mon…grow up!) that’s is willing take on the salary, and only 1 year control of Mookie Betts, what did you really think was going to happen here?
And please remember, the Dodgers were one of the teams “affected” by the Red Sox sign stealing scandal. We’re the Dodgers attitude towards the Red Sox going to be: “oh don’t you worry about that silly little sign stealing thing. Here’s our minors, just take what you think is fair.”
Grow up pundits and fans. That fact that Bloom was able to get what he got is to be commended, not condemned.
Think about it.
Grew up and thought about it Pucker. But maybe you should too if you think Dodgers make a trade offer based on anything other than how they feel about that individual deal.
As for what we feel about these players worth, it’s our own opinion. If Sox offered all teams Price alone at 3/$48M and a low level prospect… would any other team be interested besides LA? Or would teams expect the Sox to pay more $$?
Don’t include D. Price & they easily can
The Sox got salary relief as part of the trade. That’s an asset, too. So, they were getting 2 high-end prospects & salary relief for Betts. That’s plenty.
You would get more if David Price $96 million wasn’t attached to Mookie Betts
Hahahaha Boston sucks the big fat one on this debacle. Next time don’t handle your biz based off public perception
Yes. Watching this forest fire of a team is great. Burn Boston burn.
I would think if this deal somehow doesn’t get done – Boston isn’t the biggest loser here.
Really – what is the issue with how events occurred? Teams agreed to trade, Medicals of Graterol weren’t good… showing his odds of ever becoming the player Boston was hoping for was greatly reduced. Wouldn’t anyone here playing GM change their opinion of Graterol and either want someone else or something more as Bloom has?
If not – why?
I don’t think it’s crazy to ask for more. The crazy part is to ask the Twins for two top 10 prospects and the Twins only receive Maeda in return. If the Twins have to kick in more specifically THAT much more, then they should be getting more back in a trade as well. Either more from the Dodgers or more from the Sox.
If there’s a real injury worry, how is he still a top 10 team prospect?
No matter what happens with this deal, Boston RedSox are losers and cheaters (In life and in baseball) and nothing will ever change that.
Because he’s always been an injury worry and was still a top 10 team prospect?
Yea but guys rankings those prospects don’t see the medicals. The entire point of this medical hold up is that the medical risk appears much greater than the public perception of it.
The crazy part is Boston still wants Graterol. If he is “damaged”, why insist on keeping him included in the deal?
True, the rankers don’t see the medicals but they will never see the medicals so it doesn’t change much on their end. They were already knocking him down for being a reliever only and likely knocking him for the TJ and then shoulder issue last year.
They can only judge by what they do know. Hypothetically, If Graterol does well this season and is still eligible to be ranked (he probably wouldn’t be eligible due to innings, but just go with my point) would he be knocked down to a lower ranking? No, and the medical issue would still be there. So nothing changes. If he gets hurt again or is bad, he’d rank lower, but that’s the case anyway regardless of what this issue is.
At least they have a forest to burn. Unlike the land of cleves.
Red Sox Losers Triber? I guess I can take your word for it -4 championships in 15 seasons doesn’t sound like a loser baseball team to me.
Small market revenge! I love it!
They probably have traders remorse before the trigger got pulled and someone leaked the trade. It seems rather light for a year of one of the best players in baseball and control of David Price for 3 years (who is still a serviceable starter).
This wouldn’t be a story if “sports reporters” weren’t in such a rush to get stories out there. Report what happens, don’t report what might happen.
Wow now what
Anything is on the table now.
Would love to see another team step in for Betts, but will likely be another team steps in for Maeda
Yanks get Maeda. No doubt.
For who though? Red Sox want a young topline SP in return.
That the yanks don’t have.
And even if they did, there’s no way the Yankees would trade a top prospect – at any position, much less SP – to their biggest rival.
I could see a scenario where the Dodgers pivot over to the Reds and get them involved. Possibly a deal of Kenta Maeda to Cincinnati for Nick Senzel, the Dodgers send Senzel to Boston with Verdugo. Thoughts?
Love it! So impressed with the twins front office right now. Boston should feel embarrassed
The twins front office is getting dragged through the mud because they concealed medical records of the prospect.
They didn’t conceal medical records. They shared them and the Sox balked at it. Twins are annoyed that the Sox likely leaked the info to gain leverage.
And to be clear, Sox may have had a good reason to not like the medicals. Twins just didn’t like that it went public
Exactly, you agreed to a trade, do your homework on a prospect you are receiving. I liked getting maeda but I’m glad the twins didn’t fold over to Boston’s BS demands
sometimes the best way to answer a question on the test is by looking at your answers to the rest of the questions.
You do realize that medical records can’t legally be shared until the trade is agreed to in principle, right? After the trade was agreed to, the Red So saw the medical records and were scared off. Blaming any of the teams involved for wrongdoing is absurd and trollish.
Teams should no longer get any medical info without consent, and consent can’t be coerced for a contract. either that or start paying income taxes and property taxes like the rest of us.
Exactly. Medical files don’t get sent over until the trade is complete. The problem with all of this nonsense was that it involved so many different teams. Trades getting nixed for medicals is not uncommon.
Ignorance is enormous with this one.
Huh?
Stfu
They leaked that there’s a problem with Medicals. It’s 100% BOSTONS FAULT
Somewhere, graterol’s medical was printed long before this occurred.
Only going by what has been suggested. That his TJs was publicly announced years ago.
Just sayin’
The TJ surgery and every injury that puts him on the IL is public knowledge. The Red Sox and every other team know about it. That isn’t the issue.
Graterol’s MRIs and all other scans are NOT public knowledge. That can only be shared to the public by Graterol himself. When a player is traded, it’s contingent on medical review. That includes these medical scans and any other time Graterol has seen a doctor. Those aren’t publicly available. Those documents go to the team acquiring him and they have their medical people determine if it’s okay or not.
The Sox weren’t objecting to his TJ surgery or his shoulder injury last year. They were objecting to something in the medicals that we have zero knowledge of and will likely always have zero knowledge of until he gets another bad injury or Graterol tells us himself.
twins33 – that’s the only thing that makes sense. Anything else is speculation. Every trade that is reported is always contingent on review of medical reports from a new physical exam. No one is doing anything wrong. Boston didn’t like the report from Graterol’s exam so they are rethinking the trade. When I buy a used car, I test drive it and take it to my mechanic for a once over. If the mechanic finds problems, I either negotiate a lower price or look for a different car.
Didn’t the Red Sox use them tactic on JC Ramirez and Mike Napoli they agreed on there contracts cut money from their contracts that they agreed upon
Bro you stfu you got no clue what your talking about moron
What difference would it have made? Sox have to announce why they no longer are making the deal. Could have been the same issue if the Dodgers looked at Price’s recent medicals or compared his last two MRI films and found something that was worse than they expected.
We’re you on the phone Christian? How do you know what was said? Sox got burned with the trades with Seattle and Milwaukee regarding the health of pitchers they received. Nothing alarming was found then but it likely caused them to look mor3 closely this time given how last season ended for him.
Doofy – who is your anger aimed at? You didn’t specify which moron.
If that’s the case then why did Boston still want Graterol in the deal?
Boston’s GM should get the Fired ….Betts Doesn’t want to play for the Red Sox anyways Bean Town cheaters
Since when is reviewing medicals a tactic Geno? All agreed upon contracts are contingent upon a medical exam which includes a review of records. If it were indeed a tactic, the MLBPA would have grieved then and now.
Then why does Boston still want him?
Geno – Why should he get fired? He is following the advice of his medical team who are telling him there are potential issues with Graterol. There’s no evidence of anything else going on to delay the deals. He’s doing his job.
He agreed on Graterol Why not ask for different prospect why keep Graterol and ask the twins additional prospect if the guy has a bum arm Graterol
because he while he may be damaged it is most likely they are willing to chance him making a full recovery but they cant make him the main piece in the deal from min. it would have to be another top prospect and him as with whatever medical problem they found they view him as a lottery ticket that may spend more time on the DL and never be more then a middle reliever
Of which Betts was one.
That’s not remotely what happened. The Red Sox are taking the heat
Funny thing is, most red sox fans feel the same way, proud of Bloom for not blinking.
Sincerely, good luck with graterol. I’d like to see what he can do as a closer in mlb.
For whatever reason he wasn’t right for the sox in what they needed in this trade and thought based upon past years -apparently like boras – that he could be (a 2020 starter.)
@jwardrip – nothing anywhere, NOTHING, says the twins concealed or lied about anything. We don’t know what the records said, different doctors give different prognosis every day looking at the same case.
Problem now is the Red Sox essentially told Betts they don’t want him and now have to deal with a disgruntled player who will soon be a free agent. The longer they wait the price will drop in terms of prospects and his price goes up on any chance of his resigning there.
They never said they didn’t want him. They are adults – except Price. He wants to test FA. They can just as well try again then if they want to do so. Keep spinning. There is no rush to get this done. They have a week to figure it out. Different players will be dealt. The pressure is on LA IMO. Mookie was proclaimed a Dodger.
he told the world he is looking forward to free agency and turned down 10yrs 300mill extension offer and asked for 12yrs 420mill so its no surprise that they are trading him because they are smart enough not to offer him more than 30mill a yr
I see no pressure on LA at all
LA will be fine. Better with Betts but fine either way.
Still you are right I am proud Bloom is standing up n not caving in like DD did when the Padres LIED to DD about PomPom being hurt. I think the trade will get done. Lord help the team when Price arrives in camp.
How many starts did Pomeranz miss? None you say? What was his ERA the first 2 years? 3.94? Wow. He must have been hurt badly. He never missed a start and the only Red Sox pitcher that was better was Sale.
How many games has the guy they sent to the Padres made? None you say?
Pull your head out @pasha.
I love how you’re cheering your stats here. He was garbage in his first half season after the trade, had a mediocre Dice-K esque second season where averaged 5 1/3 innings an outing, then proceeded to go back to being an utter disaster in his third.
“Pull your head out!”
“Pinche Verde is the worst manager ever!”
“Chase Headley is my hero!”
“Giancarlo Stanton’s opt-out clause benefits the Yankees!”
“Padres should extend Carter Capps!”
“Padres should QO Tyson Ross!”
“I sat next to Dan Lozano on a plane and he told me Manny Machado was signing with the Padres!”
“I’m not Koamalu!”
“Everyone who disagrees is wcr!”
All this spin is making me dizzy.
Bloom would look pretty foolish later if we learned about these medicals after another big Graterol injury
He’d look just as foolish IF Graterol turns into a solid starter for a few years. Then Graterol gets injured and becomes a lock down closer. Remember the only player to be 100% voted into the HOF was a FAILURE as a starting pitcher.
Mariano was not a failed starter. he made a total of 10 starts in his rookie year and was a good starter in the minors the reason he ended in the bullpen in his 2nd year was the rotation was full. The Yankees saw him turn into a SOLID setup man to wetteland and when wetteland left they decided to let Mariano close as he was a solid setup man and they knew from that he had the makeup to close. had there been an opening in the rotation at the start of his 2nd year he most likely would have been starting.
He had an ERA over 5.00 as a starter, so I would say he was a failed starter.
Impressed with The Twins because they tried to off load with a ssd’s suspect arm?
Hahahahahahaha
No issues since we don’t know what was provided beforehand or what’s I. The medicals. Trades are never a guarantee but Boston has to be nervous after all of the trades DD made for pitching.
I know that the Red Sox are citing health as the concern here, but part of me wonders if they realized last minute that they may have been getting fleeced on the deal and wanted to ask for more.
So many are saying the Sox got fleeced but so many others disagree. Funny that many saying now the return was crap were the same who said beforehand that the return for a rental and an over the hill starter was going to be minimal.
Plus they are getting the benefit of offloading salary.
Whoops!
ANDDDDDDDD this trade is dead in the water
not yet dead. im sure it’ll work out. deal isnt dead.
Not really. Could find another 3rd team or Dodgers sweeten the deal with a player or take on a few more $$ of the Price contract or both.
I don’t believe they were able to get a deal done and that is why they added the Twins…it will either be find another 3rd team…Twins add a player or deal is done…Dodgers won’t add players or eat more contract then already agreed…
All the Dodgers have to do is give Boston Josiah Gray and its fine.
Hahahahaha
Lol……dream on.
Lol……dream on.
Only the Reds are that dumb, fleeced us!
Agreed. Perfect solution. Dodgers can separately trade Maeda to Twins for Graterol if they choose.
Josiah Gray for 1 year of Betts isnt happening. Price even at half the price of $16M/year is negative value.
Why not Bellinger, moron?
It’s unfortunate that Boston sought to change the deal. Kudos to Twins FO for standing firm.
Agree
If the Red Sox did a physical on Graterol and found something that was not included in his medical records – they have every right to decline the deal or try to restructure it.
That’s not to say the Twins were intentionally concealing or overlooking medical issues.. there could just be a difference in opinion between the two medical staffs or an additional concern has surfaced since Graterol’s last physical.
So it’s OK to trade injured players? Twins tried to cheat and got caught.
He’s not hurt you Buffon
He’s healthy. Boston knew of his injury history. They balked when the media got word of the deal and started to criticize
Stop making crap up my god
He’s not injured. He hit 100 mph+ in every outing, including the last one. No ones trying to cheat anyone. Just a difference of opinion on the medicals.
This is Acirema, there is no truth.
The Twins haven’t stood firm. They offered another top 20 prospect to get the trade done. The Red Sox have poo-poo’d that too. I think Boston is looking like a bunch of manipulative, disorganized hacks at this point.
if the medical records show a problem then just a top 20 player isnt enough it should be someone comparable to him a top 5 prospect as with an injury he is just a lottery ticket.
This is starting to look like baseball’s version of the Iowa Democratic caucus. I wonder if any of these deals will get done.
Touché
Too much risk for Boston not to trade both players. If either get hurt, the a Sox remain above the tax. Now that it’s come out that the Red Sox will pay 50% of Price’s contract (assuming the prior report was accurate), perhaps St. Louis or Atlanta get involved and the players are traded separately.
political turd in the pool
Padres should jump in
Padres get Maeda Price
Red Sox take Myers Verdugo Naylor Quantril and Miller
Dodgers get Betts
lmao stop putting Myers in every deal NO ONE wants him!!!
Your trade actually works if you remove Myers.
It’s Padre fan delusion they keep thinking Myers has value but he just ruins deal
Meyers could have worked before Moreland was signed, No more.
Padres taking all of prices contract can’t happen unless red Sox take Myers which saves the red sox money and fills a need at 1st.
Do they think he has value or do they just want him gone?
^and Price/Maeda also doesn’t make any sense for the Padres. They’re trying to decrease bad contracts not take on more.
Getting rid of Wil Myers is getting rid of a bad contract. Wil myers has no value.
If the Sox are still willing to pay down Price’s deal to $16M per year and Maeda’s contract is actually one of the more team friendly deals in MLB, than this actually isn’t a bad deal for a team looking to add 2 quality veteran starters
Maeda isn’t a bad contract….\
The Dodgers are taking Price… they obviously wouldn’t be dealing Maeda if they weren’t getting Price… what’s with the people saying a team should step in and grab Maeda and Price… like that makes 0 sense
Myers has no value. However, the Red Sox have shown a willingness to pay $48MM over the next three years to offset Price’s deal.
The Padres including Myers plus $4MM each of the next three years and another $1MM for his 2023 club buyout would have the same net effect as the Red Sox sending $48MM over three years as proposed in the LA/MIN/BOS deal.
So a deal including talent that BOS considers equal to Verdugo and what they initially thought Graterol was worth plus the “Myers and cash” described above with no BOS money going in San Diego’s direction would deliver the same overall value at
no additional cost to the Red Sox.
Problem is Dodgers need a starter so they need one of price or Maeda.
Dodgers do not need starters…..
Buehler
Kershaw
May
Gonsolin
Wood
Nelson
Are all starting pitchers and they still have Gray coming up in the minors, they also can use Urias as a starter. This is why they could afford to trade Stripling and Maeda.
This is why before all of this happened the Dodgers should have thrown more money at Maeda and make him a full time reliever. He’d be one of the best.
The Dodgers don’t seem to be a team that “throws more money” at anyone. The current FO makes calculated financial moves.
Plus he’s already under contract, if he’s the odd man out of the rotation he’s a full time reliever.
Last year, you’d have listed Rich Hill there
He threw 40 innings for the dodgers in 2019
They love depth. They aren’t dealing Maeda and Stripling without getting a pitcher back
Urias is a starter this year, according to the Dodgers. Right now it’s:
Buehler
Kershaw
Urias
Maeda
May
Stripling
Gonsolin
Wood
Nelson
If this deal had gone through:
Buehler
Kershaw
Urias
Price
May
Gonsolin
Wood
Nelson
This isn’t mentioning any other AAA guys they could throw out there.
Why would the Padres get involved in helping to make a divisional rival better? They’re trying to get closer to LA, not increase the gap.
The Padres never had a shot at the division either way. If you’re San Diego, you’re looking at improving your wild card chances
The Padres play the Dodgers 19 times., that hurts their WC prospects.
This
If the Dodgers just made a tentative deal to get Betts & Price for Verdugo & Maeda, why would they trade those same two guys for just Betts?
Maeda’s contract I belief is team friendly and benefits Maeda on his performance year long.
Moving Maeda would be to fit Price in as Kenta has asked to be a starter
They’ll still be able to flip Maeda for a nice prospect and figure this all out I hope
GOOD JOB TWINS FO!!!!
I would be pretty upset if I were the Dodgers, Twins, and Angels.
So, everybody
Why blame Boston when no one knows what they were told or what’s in the records? Too much guessing to place blame.
You blame Boston because most avid baseball fans knew Graterol profiled as a reliever WITHOUT seeing his medical records. So Boston’s reasoning is complete BS and the real reason was buyer’s remorse on the part of Boston, after they received all the backlash for not getting enough in return.
Except that it’s entirely plausible that Boston’s team physician saw something in Graterol’s medicals that makes him a one-inning guy, or a more significant injury than what was diagnosed by Minnesota’s team physician, or that his MRI revealed structural damage that requires surgery and will prevent him from performing.
You’re blaming Boston for balking at the medical records of a prospect with a pretty serious injury history. You must be a Twins fan because they’re the only people I’ve seen making these asinine comments.
Complete BS? Really? They had a agreement in place contingent on the medical examination and records! Not on what they could assume or may know…
When those examinations and records are reviewed then the trade is announced.
I am completely amazed at the complete lack of comprehension of so many within this forum that so willingly express their ignorance on the process that’s been there for years..
Union and Boras don’t like it because it took place so close to spring training.
Get a freakin clue people before you rant!
Sorry GFY. Other than Twins fans, most other avid baseball fans haven’t seen enough of him to develop that profile. Regardless, teams have different visions and Boston has been burned too many times recently when trading for relievers. Without seeing the records or knowing what was disclosed beforehand not one fan is in position to blame any team. Too bad it got released before the trade was finalized.
@AllRiseForTheJudge
Well, clearly you have a short memory. The original reason Boston gave for wanting more was that they thought Graterol profiles as a STARTER. Then they saw his medicals and say they NOW view him as a reliever. I was just pointing out that any avid baseball fan knew Graterol was a reliever before any light of this trade came about, WITHOUT seeing his medicals. Anyone that didn’t know that, is not an avid baseball fan, rather they are just an avid fan of the baseball team they root for. If it comes out that there is concern Graterol may have a long-term injury, which could possibly prevent him from having ANY kind of career – only then would Boston’s actions be justified. Otherwise, my original post is spot on.
For the record, I’m a Dodgers fan and I don’t care that the Twins pulled out, because Friedman will get this done regardless, IF it makes sense for the Dodgers still. Additionally, whether Mookie Betts plays for the Dodgers or not this year, I’ll enjoy watching our teams play each other in the 2020 World Series, since I was born in 1984 and have never had the pleasure of watching a Dodgers-Yankees WS in real-time.
GFY — This is from over a year ago on Prospect361. Other prospect analysis sites have made similar comments. THUS, you are INCORRECT when you state that only Twins fans were privy to some secret Graterol profile.
“After seeing him pitch at the highest level, with his size and max effort, Graterol might work better out of the bullpen. If he does, it could be special. As a starter, I think the ceiling is more of a number three starter. Maybe a little more if he improves his control. Regardless, he should see considerable time in Minnesota in 2020.”
@Berger
See the first portion of my response to AllRise, then see my username, which is an acronym for what you can go do thereafter.
@ Tipsy McStagger
Thanks for pointing out the lack of your post’s viability with your first sentence. That was over a year ago. After he already had TJ surgery, but before he then had shoulder issues this past season. The combination of those 2 is why anyone that knows about baseball and pitching, already knew he was destined for relief work.
It was a good try though.
Sorry, a previous response that I posted for GFY was meant for looiebelongsinthehall — Here is a post from SBNation from January of 2018:
It’s a bit of an odd delivery. He doesn’t use his lower half as much as a traditional pitcher might, almost stopping himself short and letting his arm do the rest of the work. And it’s here that you can see where there’s some worry. His short-stride, aggressive motion coupled with a head whack is usually a no-no for starters.
GFY — Reread my last comment. I was actually arguing WITH you, not against you. I just put in the wrong person’s name.
@Tipsy McStagger
My apologies, I’m guilty of not reading your entire response. I jumped the gun…had bi-lateral hernia surgery yesterday and am hopped up on Percocets, lol. Actually the only reason I’m on the comments section today…have to give myself something to do while laid up in bed
Relievers become starters on a regular basis and have for decades such as Rich Hill
Still would prefer the Twins FO to pursue another starter, but for now let’s just sign Walker and or Cashner and call it an offseason.
Twins farm must be pretty sad if Walker or Cashner look appealing
Twins have a top 5 farm. They shouldn’t be signing the players mentioned
Chaim Bloom should have stayed in Tampa where he can trade for prospects and no one cares. He can’t handle the pressure of Boston.
Actually I think he’s handling things perfectly. Historically when changing managers, a team often looks for the opposite style to change things up. Here with the executive position. Sherington produced a title but held on to all his prospects. DD came in and was aggressive in the trade market. Now Bloom is taking his time, trying to make sure this blockbuster if completed is in the team’s long term interests.
The Preller pounce
Best offseason ever!!
Lol this sucks. Good for the Twins for standing their ground on this one
You mean for trading a player with injuries they hid?
Everyone but the Red Sox seemed to know he was more suited for the pen than the rotation.
You want to use “Red Sox Ignorance” as a defense, only a Red Sox fan will buy it.
You would think “thetruth” would have a clue but I guess not
twins suck, they will have trouble finding a trade partner for a long time
Sorry, Larry. It’s the Red Sox causing the problem, not the Twins.
The Twins didn’t change their minds and want more than Maeda. It was Boston.
Some people have no basic logic reasoning skills. Must be a Red Sox fan who wants more for one single season of Mookie.
Minnesota needed that pitcher more than Red Sox needed Graterol. Minnesota knows his arm isn’t great that why they traded him in the first place.
lol, no. And minnesota *definitely* didn’t need a mid-back end rotation piece for 2 top 10 prospects
Maeda is actually better than all their other starters. Minnesota’s rotation is really bad, but Maeda would actually be their best starter despite Berrios continuing his pretending that he’s an ace.
Minny’s top two are Berrios and Odorizzi.
Odorizzi: 4.33 xFIP in 2019.
Berrios: 4.32 xFIP in 2019.
Both had extremely lucky ERAs in 2019.
Maeda: 4.04 xFIP in 2019
Maeda would be their best starter.
You are obsessed with trash talking the Twins. Settle down guy!
Good for the twins sticking to thier evaluations and not getting bullied into something
twins suck.
Is that why they won 101 games last year? Because they suck?
They got lucky, they won’t make the playoffs this year. Their pitching is really bad.
Tomsuck
They lied and are getting their comeuppance.
So everyone knows more about this guy than the Red Sox?
Be proud Red Sox, your fans think you are idiots.
What did they lie about? Everyone knows Graterol had TJ and a shoulder issue.
Red Sox had buyers remorse and their stupid fans can’t get over it.
Graterol is plenty for Maeda. Stand firm, Falvey and Levine.
FO of Twins not having it. Good for them.
Huh? They lied.
About what?
No they didn’t
Boston illegally leaked the problem was with the twins prospect to gain more leverage
That’s the problem! Not holding up a trade, but doing it in the media!
And yes, it’s 100% Boston doing this. The twins wouldn’t be saying our guy is injured and the dodgers don’t give an F about a prospect they won’t touch
It’s your team. They’re being d**ks
Actually none of the 3 teams involved in the trade have done anything wrong. The Twins didn’t lie about Graterol’s medicals. They made public what they were allowed to make public. They had their own opinion on his medical status. The Sox had a different opinion. They did not leak any information. They just said that they weren’t happy/willing to make the trade after they had seen his medicals. They did not leak specifics. Nothing wrong or against the rules happened. It’s just the fans who are getting emotional.
The Red Sox have become a dumpster fire. First they dump Dombrowski a year after winning the World Series. Then they dump Cora. They’re still under investigation for their own sign-stealing. Now their new GM reneges on a tentative deal even though much of Graterol’s medicals were already known. Dumpster fire!
What was known Scott? Teams can’t exchange actual records until after a trade is otherwise complete? Dump Cora? He dumped himself. Investigation supposedly is to be announced next week and rumors are not much us expected to be revealed. Otherwise, the team wouldn’t have addressed publicly the managerial situation yesterday. Remember, the Globe is owned by Henry.
I agree Scott. Watching this team.lose in the off-season is almost as good as seeing them when they lose this season.
Dumb comment. Cora dumped himself, DD killed the farm and Minnesota lied about Graterol. Get a clue. Oh and the cheating lol, not even relevant
HaHa. Will that help you sleep at night telling yourself that? RedSox deserve every penalty they get and more. Cora was not some rogue agent. HaHa. And no proof Minn lied about the prospect. Seems Boston got buyers remorse. You can try to hold your head up high but like Astros, they’re cheaters and I will make it my life mission to remind the world of it. Burn RedSox burn
Suspicious. Maybe the Twins are trying to be shady dealers like the yankees so they can pound them in the postseason. It worked for the Astros. Go Twins! Pound the yankees! Maybe they need Graterol for plunking purposes.
Graterol isn’t having any effect in the 2020 postseason, smh
Sarcasm
Explain how the Twins were shady. Its been known by fans Graterol is likely a bullpen arm because of injuries. The Sox trying to bully away another prospect is shady
As I’ve said about a dozen times since yesterday, it may have been REPORTED by the media that Graterol is a reliever, but there could very well be something in his medicals that wasn’t public knowledge because, well, releasing medical records is technically a felony.
Boston would not have access to those records until the trade was otherwise agreed upon. You don’t know what information in those records caused concern. Graterol’s shoulder could be falling apart and you’d still blame Boston for “wanting more”. Yeah, I’d say a pitching prospect with no arm is cause for demanding more for one of the top 5 players on the planet.
The only people who think the Twins were shady are crazy Red Sox fans attempting to justify the teams ignorance.
Wayhazy dragging the Yankees into this because he’s a 65-year-old teenager Red Sox fan who is obsessed with the Yankees. It’s sad, really. Just sad to see a man so distraught over a rival it’s all he can think about in his retirement.
Tony Clarke whineathon incoming in 3… 2…
One more comment: Betts may be the big winner here. His stats will look a lot better in Fenway, a paradise for right-handed hitters, than they would in Dodger Stadium, not a paradise for any-handed hitters. Toss in twenty or so games in San Francisco and San Diego, and he probably would have hit something like what he did on the road in 2019: .275/.373/.480. Still good, but not gigantic numbers heading into free agency.
He’s not staying in Boston regardless unless the team kisses his butt and offers Trout numbers which is never happening.
Gonna be fun watching the Sox whiffing against their guy Graterol over the next few years.
Our down the pipe.
The Dodgers can give them another player.
The Dodgers can give them another player.
If the Dodgers were willing to give up another player.,they would have or the player they offered Boston didn’t want. This trade could very well be dead.
Ha, this off-season is way more entertaining than the regular season games.
Like someone was writing a script…..seriously
Betts to padres
Yikes. I thought the Red Sox were making out pretty good on this deal. Verdugo isn’t Betts, but he reminds me a lot of Michael Brantley. Couple that with the relief of salary of half of the Price contract and getting a flame thrower from Minnesota, it looked like a great deal. The only team I didn’t like the deal for was the Twins as Graterol could outperform Maeda in 2020 alone, not to mention years of control ahead and potential dominance. If Graterol does indeed have injury concerns, that’s too bad, otherwise this could be a blessing in disguise for Minnesota.
Nice comparison as Brantley has been hurt a lot. Special player when healthy. Difference though is above the neck. From what has been written, Brantley is a true professional one who could improve any clubhouse. In his short start in LA, Verdugo has done nothing to suggest that.
You’re also talking about a kid that’s 23 years old and walked into one of the biggest markets around. It’s not easy being a kid and walking into Hollywood like that. I do agree that Brantley has always been a pretty composed and seemingly intelligent player, but I was comparing tools more than anything. High average, good contact skills, mediocre power. I’m not ready to say Verdugo’s character is a weakness yet, I’m willing to say he’s a kid right now. Give it 2-3 years and if he’s still having issues, I agree, it’s a bigger issue.
Are you actually Anthony Rendon? Los Angeles is not Hollywood. Verdugo’s maturity was questioned in the minors. It has nothing to do with playing where he does. It is his personality.
Yikes. I thought the Red Sox were making out pretty good on this deal. Verdugo isn’t Betts, but he reminds me a lot of Michael Brantley. Couple that with the relief of salary of half of the Price contract and getting a flame thrower from Minnesota, it looked like a great deal. The only team I didn’t like the deal for was the Twins as Graterol could outperform Maeda in 2020 alone, not to mention years of control ahead and potential dominance. If Graterol does indeed have injury concerns, that’s too bad, otherwise this could be a blessing in disguise for Minnesota.
Good. As much as I like and want Maeda, he’s not worth two Twins top 10 prospects.
Not sure the Twins can get anything of value out of Graterol now, at least before the season starts, which sucks because I have been all for trading him.
CHAOS!
I love it.
Bloom should get Tampa Bay to trade for Maeda and flip the prospect(s) LA receives to Boston. Bloom know the Rays system inside-out. The Rays appear to be going for it and have shown they will deal talent from their system. Even if either LA or Boston have to eat some of Maeda’s contract it still works and everyone is happy in the end.
You’re insane if you think Betts gets traded within the AL East
Think you misread the kenphelps44 post about Bloom and the Rays, Mr. Swag.
Ray’s fan here, I think our SP will be fine. We won’t see a lot of openers this upcoming season. Would like Maeda, but would prefer that Boston gets stuck with a grumpy Price.
Wouldn’t Maeda easily push Chirinos or Yarbs down the depth chart?
I was thinking the same thing. It would be a Rays reunion of sorts with Friedman and Bloom. Interesting at the very least.
This Bloom guy seems like a bozo.
I think this whole thing started because the Red Sox saw how much heat they were getting for doing the trade in the first place. My gut says there was nothing wrong with the medicals, and the Red Sox just pulled this crap out of sellers remorse….
Not sure where the crap is coming from. I’ve been listening to EEI in the morning and heard nothing. Just as many seemed to be in favor on the return (not counting those who want him re-signed at any cost).
Do you really believe that? Come on these GM’s and front office people all know each other. That would not go over well with the GM’s and Owners in the league. The Sox owners have 4 WS since they bought the team. You think they are worried about pressure. Hell no. Unless they can’t get reasonable value, Mookie is going bye bye. He wants way too much $.
Heat ?? Of course every Red Sox fan hated it. That’s easy to predict. They got a ton of value in return. They are just greedy or had to throw in too much money
every red sox fan hated it? if you’re talking about trading Betts than please don’t say every fan because im happy we are trading Betts especially since he turned down 10yrs 300mill and asked for 12yrs 420mill…the best thing Boston can do is trade Betts
I am not happy about trading Betts, but it has to be done to hit the reset on the lux tax. I keep hearing people say that is bs, but you build the farm on the draft and on international signing. The money and the slots lost via penalties are substantial. They need to do this. I think LA needs to do it as well, Mookie is a big splash and most fans seemed to welcome the deal.
Angels should throw someone in the mix for Maeda and get this deal done! This trade catapults the Angels to favorites in the West imo
because
of
Maeda
?
haha ha
Dr. Doom, The Dodgers want to unload Joc Pederson’s salary. The Angels can’t take on Meada’s and Pederson’s salary and still stay under the threshold.
Everyone wants to stay under the threshold. I’m sure the Angels would love to acquire Maeda, but not if they have to take Pederson.
Include La Stella in the deal. He isn’t going to see much time in an Angels uniform. Maybe send him to the Red Sox, send a mid-tier prospect to the Dodgers for Maeda. Both Maeda and La Stella are making about the same next season.
People don’t understand Maeda’s contract. As a starter, Maeda will make over ten million dollars.
The Angels are still nearly $12 million under the threshold with Pederson and Stripling added in already.
The Angels could get Betts, Verdugo, and Maeda and still wouldn’t be favorites to win anything.
I’m pretty sure putting Verdugo and Betts next to Trout and having a 2-3-4-5 of Verdugo, Betts, Trout, Rendon in any order you prefer makes them just as good as Houston’s on-paper, presumably-not-cheating team.
There’s also the Joe Maddon factor, in that Joe Maddon is a far superior manager to Dusty Baker, and the Angels aren’t coming off a cheating scandal with every eye in the world on them. If the Angels make that swap, they win the division IMO.
Lol Houston’s lineup and pitching would still be better. So would Oakland’s.
dumdum!
I agree. Angels staff is terrible. There best pitcher is a DH lmao. How are they even a serious team ??
Muuuuuuuuuch improved from the end of last season. Monster staff? No. But very improved. Good enough to push for a playoff spot.
Now is the time for the Mets BVW it jump in and get Mookie. I really hope this trade blows up and Boston looks like dumb asses with Mookie and Price showing up when camp starts
That would not be a bad thing. Mookie would like to stay in Boston so maybe that happens and they end up paying him his $400M and they trade Price and JBJ which also gets them under the $208 CBT tax. Or they trade Price at the deadline. Chaim is smart and the Sox owners have 4 WS for a reason. They know what their doing.
Lol Mookie hates Boston, which is why he wants to test free agency unless they well overpay. He wants money and he isn’t loyal at all.
Id hate Boston as well with if I had to put up with fans like you. We get it, you think the Twins lied (even though you are wrong) just give it up.
Pulling out: the most effective method
Well that or taking it in the rear. Which red sox fans think was gonna happen if this trade went through.
I disagree. But then again I got 5 kids
Twins did the right thing. Good job by their management.
I think everyone knew this was coming. Let’s see how many people jump to blame the Sox for this.
Who else is there to blame but Boston?
Umm, how about the media who reported this as a done deal when it wasn’t? None of the teams involved announced anything. “Pending physicals” is the key here and in any trade.
Well, if Minnesota told Boston they were getting a healthy top prospect and Graterol is, in fact, not healthy, you blame Minnesota. You can’t really blame Boston over something you can’t know until records are furnished. For all any of us know, Graterol’s elbow is done and he’s headed for a second TJS.
We have no idea. Assuming Boston is lying about being concerned with medicals to get out of making a trade they want to make is preposterous.
Graterol IS healthy. He came back last year after the shoulder impingement and pitched in September and the postseason. He’s in Fort Myers right now working out. So unless something happened to him in the offseason that is not being reported…
Now there may be something in his medicals, wouldn’t surprise me, the concern is legit. He is a health risk, but there is absolutely nothing out there that says he can’t throw a baseball at all. The Twins were/are going to put him in the BP which means he is healthy.
Just saw a picture of Graterol throwing a bullpen. Didn’t see or read about him grabbing his arm and walking off. Yep, healthy.
Being healthy and being concerned about his future health can coexist at the same time. If he’s able to pitch (not start spring training/the season on the IL), then he’s healthy.
They should be blamed. The Sox want to dump Price on someone and they expect full value for Betts. No one wants Price. Getting five years, 3.1 WAR at age 23, who will almost certainly get better, and a top 100 pitching prospect for one year of Betts is not a bad deal. However, when you throw in Price, it all of a sudden turns into a good deal.
Hopefully Angels can get Maeda instead of Stripling and not have to give up any of their top prospects
I’m all for Maeda going to LAA and Stripling going to the Red Sox as the finishing touches to make up for the Minnesota withdrawal.
The Angels wont take on the salary of Pederson and Maeda. The Red Sox wont take on the salary of Maeda.
No prospects at all needed to get Maeda, just tell Trout to head for the real LA
What happened to the trade becoming official yesterday?
HA, Yeah some dude on here yesterday was adamant it was still happening.
It would be interesting if the rangers became the new third team if they want to replace Minnesota. Maybe acquire pollock without taking on much money from dodgers for a guy like Brock Burke or Jonathan Hernández who while not much success at majors, has some solid upside and pollock fill that center field need they have and keep Santana as a utility man. And plus if pollock stays healthy which is unlikely with his injury history he could definitely hit nicely in Texas
That would require LAD to send another stud prospect to Boston to satisfy them which I doubt LAD wants to do
Well the dodgers do have one of the deepest farm in baseball so they could still give up a good prospect without giving their top 5 prospects
Revolt, then they need more money to take Price’s contract and then Boston wont get under the cap.
The Dodgers don’t need to make this trade, the other three teams do.
I’m saying the rangers take on about a 3rd of pollock remaining contract. They still trade Pederson to angels to lose the 7.5 million on him, send Verdugo, maeta, and maybe Josiah gray or Mitchell white goes to Boston, and dodgers still get price and Betts but with the rangers taking a 3rd of pollock contract and Pederson contract going to angels, that should balance the money enough where both Red Sox get under tax and dodgers get their guys
And add Burke or Hernández like I mentioned earlier and that package right there I believe would be enough to get deal done…
The Angels don’t want Pederson, they accepted his contract to get Stripland.
So the trade I’m proposing is…
Dodgers: Betts, Price (From Boston)
Red Sox: Verdugo, Maeda, Burke, & White
Rangers: pollock, & cash (from LA)
Why would the Dodgers do that? Just because they have prospects they should hand them over?
Mitchell White isn’t a top 5 prospect in the dodgers farm, but he has some upside that the Red Sox want, and Brock Burke is an elite prospect either, Verdugo and Maeda would be major league assets they want, dodgers still get the guys they want in Betts and Price to take Maeda place, and get some relief on the pollock deal cause the rangers get him…
Isnt*… Brock Burke isn’t an elite prospect is want I meant
no way
No!
Twins bullpen is gonna be nasty.
As a Twins fan I am ok with this. Graterol is a stud in the making. If he does not become a starter he will be a lights out closer. I thought Maeda for Graterol who is MLB ready was a pretty steep price for a mid rotation arm. Graterol has the potential to be an Ace and of he doesn’t make it as a starter he will be an All Star closer.
Paying more for Maeda is a mistake. Sorry Boston your loss. The Twins can get another arm like Tijuan Walker and keep Graterol.
Lol at Tijuan Walker…….. Cant stay healthy. If you are going to gamble on him, why not just gamble on Graterol if you think he’s so great?
Low risk and high reward for Walker. Graterol is one I Hope makes a push for the rotation. Some of the signings like Rich Hill and Homer Bailey might not work. Also a regression from Odo is likely. It is good to have depth and catch lightning in a bottle with a few of them.
Not sure you’ll get lightning in a bottle from a guy who’s reported to only be throwing in the 80s.
Awesome drama. More please.
Why don’t Dodgers and Twins complete trade? LA could use Graterol in the pen and Twins get Kenta. Then Dodgers can give Boston the young starter they want, perhaps Josiah Gray or Mitchell White, whatever color the Red Sox prefer.
That’s a great idea.
And I like it, too. Let’s make the trade!
Unless the medical warning is not B.S. in which case why would the Dodgers do that?
There’s a good chance that the Dodgers FO does not value Graterol as highly as Bloom appeared to initially.
No point throwing a new prospect in the mix and taking Graterol from the Dodgers’ perspective, unless Friedman can sell Bloom on a prospect the Dodgers FO considers less valuable than Graterol.
No no no no. The dodgers aren’t trying to trade maeda without replacing him with Price. Let’s get real.
Sure, just hand them Josiah Gray. Right…..
Boston has all the pressure here. The Twins didn’t NEED to be here, they can go trade Graterol for another Maeda-ish pitcher. So they called Boston’s bluff. I’m proud of their FO.
But Boston can’t bring Mookie back now. It’s gone way too far. The players aren’t robots.
And here’s what’s worse for Boston. The following people/entities currently hate Chaim Bloom and Boston:
Arte Moreno
The entire Angels team who want Joc and Strip
Joc and his agent
Strip and his agent
Kenta Maeda and his agent
Alex Verdugo and his agent
The Twins and their players
Boston fans
Dodger fans
Angel fans
Twin fans
That’s a long list. And then there’s the Dodgers, sitting back in their fine ass plush chairs, eating popcorn and saying, “We’re pretty sure we have the division won. We’re not giving you anything else to make this work. Everyone hates you. Figure it out.”
It would be hilarious if I wasn’t a Dodger fan and I wanted Betts on the team now. But I’m totally understanding of the Dodgers not giving two poops about trying to ease this along for Mr. Bloom.
It’s business dude. Some people may be upset, but nobody hates him. Overreaction of the year right here.
Yankee the voice of reason?! Chaps indeed!
What will be hillarious is when you get bounced out in the playoffs, because you think hoarding prospects wins titles. At least the red Sox actually win titles.
Please remove me from that list. As a Sox fan, it’s too early to have an opinion on Bloom. He has orders to get under the tax this year at all costs regardless of what Henry has said publicly (in my view). No one knows what’s really going on so why not wait and see what develops?
Dodgers send Verdugo to Sox and Gonsolin to TX. Then TX sends Burke and Taveras to Boston for JBJr. Boston sends Betts and Price to Dodgers as scheduled.
Good.
SUX!
So it’s good for the Twins to stick to their guns but it’s bad that the Sox wanted more than just damaged goods? Good for them they should get more for a superstar even if it’s a one year rental.
In my opinion both are fine. The Sox have every right to legitimately not like a guys medicals and ask for more. The Twins also have every right to not give up two top 10 Twins prospects and only get Maeda in return.
Maeda is good and I’m higher on him than most Twins fans it appears, but if he’s good, he’ll be making 10-13M as a Twin. Don’t get me wrong, that’s still very good value, but it’s not worth two top 10s. If the Twins were getting Mookie or another player in return then it makes more sense, but for Maeda alone it’s an overpay.
But what is the alternative here? Kill the deal and roll the dice for a deadline deal? That could be an absolute disaster for Boston because instead of a 1 year rental he becomes a half year rental and by that time teams are looking to trade for pitchers not hitters and deals are much cheaper to come by. They honestly could be left with their pants down and egg on their faces should a deal not happen before this season begins.
Interesting twist since it’s about money. Sale wasn’t great either but What if you swap Sale with price and the Red Sox take on the whole contract
What!?! Why in the world would the Red Sox do either of those things? For one they don’t want to include Sale at all — he’s their ace even if he was hurt last year. But if they were for some insane reason inclined to include Sale… then why in the world would they then also pay his entire contract? That makes 0 sense — and even if they did… why would that do anything at all to help this trade get finalizes? Like your comment makes so little sense I don’t even know where to begin…
I think it’s obvious the Dodgers feel the same way about Graterol as the Red Sox or they would complete that trade.
Good for the Sox they should never accept damaged goods. This trade will get done. Either the Dodgers will give up the young starting pitcher they really don’t want to trade or they will find another team to make it work.
I wouldn’t count n that happening.
So much for Boston getting under the luxury tax…… And after all is done Mookie walks at seasons end and Boston will get only a compensatory draft pick. Lose-Lose for Boston
and the reputation takes hit, too! lose-lose-lose for sux!
Dodgers again with the failed trade.
Got Chapman a couple seasons ago and that fell through.
Mega-deals not kind to Dodger fans.
LAD gets Betts, Price, $. BoSox get Verdugo, Winker, Santillan. Cin gets Seager.
No way the Dodgers do that.
You don’t think the Dodgers would give up Verdugo and 2 years of Seager for Betts and 3 years of Price for like 40 cents on the dollar?
The Dodgers would only trade Seager if they got Lindor
good the red sox’s are a bunch of cheating little bitches
Yeah that makes sense…
I agree Glenn
Maeda is such a valuable swing guy, with bullpen splits looking even better than starter numbers, at least for last year. Couple that with a friendly contract, LAD has no motivation to move him w/o Price coming over.
They have every reason to move him. First reason being his contract (not his guarantee but what he is actually being paid with bonuses), along with Pederson, is what keeps them under the CBT if they’re taking on Betts and Price. Second reason being, Maeda has made it very clear that he doesn’t want to be a swingman. When his unhappiness with being used that way became public a couple months ago it became almost inevitable that he’d be traded. So if this trade is going to be salvaged in some way, it still involves Maeda.
His unhappiness would subside with a Dodgers championship I would guess. He has demonstrated difficulty going deep into games, and the starter/reliever splits are pretty clear. I think MN looked to him as a strong and proven early season bridge in the rotation while waiting for Pineda and Hill to return, then reassess the staff by July. If he is unhappy, I wonder if he would rather start for a last place team than swing for a playoff candidate.
Well the Twins aren’t a last place team and Maeda’s performance would be welcome in the bottom half of most rotations but that’s an even more crowded place on the Dodgers roster this year than in prior years. But the point being the relationship between the player and the Dodgers does not seem to be a good one. That’s what I read into what I’ve heard.
Gotcha. Yes, if Maeda is unhappy then Dodgers can get value back for him. I was just speculating on whether Maeda would rather be a starter on a rebuilding Detroit, Seattle, Pittsburg, Baltimore, KC, Miami, etc, approaching his mid 30s, than a swing man for a playoff team. If traded to MN, they would slot him immediately into a thin rotation, then evaluate options when Pineda and Hill return. His playoff experience and success as a reliever obviously comes into play as assets during a stretch run for a playoff bound team. His issue should actually be with his agent for crafting an incentive-laden contract that skews so heavily towards him being a starter. But back to LAD – you’re right, even w/o Price, they seem to be stacked pretty well with starting pitching depth, including in the farm. They can move him.
The money has to figure in somehow but Maeda says it isn’t the driving factor. He wants to start. The Dodgers response was to tell him “try harder” and then go out and get a number of other pitchers who fit into the already overcrowded 4-5 slot where he’s been starting. They made him the odd man out. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors, but I think he was clearly disrespected by management.
How DARE an unimportant franchise such as Minnesota potentially jeopardize a mega-deal involving two of the few teams ESPN cares about! What impudence (he said sarcastically — always good to see the New England Evil Empire wind up with egg on its face).
I don’t blame them. It was already a borderline overpay giving Graterol up for Maeda. Boston asking for more is ridiculous.
give them stripling
The Angels then don’t take Pederson and the Dodgers pass the Threshold.
Verdugo, Josiah Gray, Joe Kelly for Mookie and Price with same money Sox were originally gonna send to LA. Get it done. Gray higher on the prospect charts than Graterol but Boston would also be taking back some money with Kelly instead of eating more money on Price and not getting that additional player. (eating an additional 9 per year by taking Joe back). LA signed Treinen who should bounce back decently so idk if it really hurts them
The Sox wouldn’t do that… they can’t afford to cover half of Price’s contract AND take back Kelly’s $9M — that would make them over the luxury tax and eliminate one of the main goals of the trade. Also it was just a season ago that the Sox blatantly didn’t want to pay Kelly the $ to keep him in Boston, so they obviously don’t feel as though he’s good enough to warrant the $ he’s owed. I would say you’re onto something if the amount of $ the Sox were to cover on Price went down… then taking Kelly instead of covering 50% of Price’s contract would be okay but they cant/shouldnt do both.
The Twins didn’t need to be in that trade anyway.
Actually, the Twins needed to be in this trade. The only team that didn’t need to be in this trade was the Dodgers.
The Dodgers are getting the best part of the deal. The Twins don’t need Maeda.
How about sending Maeda to Boston along with Verdugo for Mookie and Price.
Boston doesn’t want to pay Maeda‘s escalating salary. If he pitches over 160 innings, he is due close to $14M under his contract, so given what they are already agreeing to pay for Price, that amounts to $30M to acquire Maeda ($16M + $14M) and they lose Price too. Just wouldn’t work for what Boston is trying to do.
Boston could immediately trade Maeda to one of several other teams.
If not then he would be very valuable at the trade deadline. You could easily get more than one pitching prospect in return.
Maeda’s contract seems to be structured with bonuses so if you trade him at the deadline you don’t have to pay those.
The uncertainty of what Maeda is likely to earn over the next four years is almost more significant a factor than the amount. BOS wants to get under the luxury tax threshold–for sure–and as Dorothy mentioned a strong 2020 season for Maeda jeopardizes that.
If it wasn’t so close to Spring Training and it was obvious that BOS wanted Maeda, they might be able to renegotiate Maeda’s contract to include more guaranteed money the next three years and then use that fixed compensation to consider how much cash to send to LA with Price.
Maybe you should go to Cots Contracts and read Maeda”s incentives. Or here:
$6.5M annually in performance bonuses based on games started: $1M each 15, 20 GS. $1.5M each for 25, 30, 32 GS
$3.5M annually in performance bonuses based on innings pitched: $250,000 each for 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160, 170, 180, 190 IP. $750,000 200 IP
Expecting Maeda to make 32 starts and go 200 innings is just nuts. MN has a number of options to add to their rotation (Pineda, Hill) as the season rolls along so they can limit Maeda’s workload (even if he doesn’t want the limits). At 28 starts and 180 IP (still perhaps a high estimate) he’d add $6 mil to his 3.15 base (and the $1 mil assignment bonus he gets from the trade but who knows who will pay that) If he works that much for a contender he’s worth far more than that.
Frankly if you look at Maeda’s and Price’s numbers over the last 2 seasons (WAR wouldn’t agree but the stat lines might) Maeda looks very comparable and far more durable than a 3 year older Price.
Why would the Red Sox want to do that? The whole point is to dump salary and get young, cheap, promising prospects… Maeda certainly doesn’t fit that description.
Thank you!!! The Sox were going to get two guys with recent serious injury concerns? Crazy. I don’t blame the twins for not kicking in more. All they would’ve gotten was Maeda? The Dodgers are the ones that are getting the steal here. The money is nothing to them and they’re getting a top 3 player and a potential #2 starter.
David Price stopped being a #2 starter when he couldn’t perform in the playoffs
Should have been MVP in 2018 against the Dodgers, but yeah, enjoy the outdated hot take…
I can’t wait for the Minn / BOS series now. No question that Rocco will bring out Graterol every chance he gets against them and try to make them look foolish for passing on the deal.
LA Dodgers can fix this easily by including Gonsolin or Gray in the deal. If I recall, neither are home grown prospects; they were recently acquired in other Dodgers trades (Gray for sure). Teams acquire prospects to both replenish their ML roster and to deal for ML-ready players. Dodgers really need to get this deal done as prospects > < major league success. Verdugo, Gonsolin could do it, but Boston could want one more piece since LA is getting Price for $16M/yr. Now that teams know Boston will pay 1/2 of Price’s contract, he could get moved in a separate deal and if that happens, Boston will be looking for Verdugo & May for Mookie alone, if not Verdugo, Gonsolin & Downs.
Or maybe if Boston asks for all that, LA can hold off. Then we can watch an even more disgruntled Betts leave Boston and all the Sox get is a comp pick. LOL
Gonsolin IS homegrown. Gray was traded for someone who was. The Dodgers don’t need to throw around prospects just because they have them.
Maybe the Twins should take Price for maybe, I don’t know, a bucket of balls?
It’s so clear the majority of you have no clue what your talking about and just rush to blame the Sox’s. It’s pathetic
Leave it to the Dodgers.
I find it telling that the Dodgers backed out of the Minn deal; they must be concerned with Graterol’s health as well. Everyone is touting him as such a stud, one would think LA would happily trade a disgruntled Maeda for such a alluring, young pitcher regardless of the Betts & Price deal.
Yeah I agree… the fact that the Dodgers don’t want any part of Graterol should be enough to prove to people currently blaming it all on the Red Sox that the medicals are actually bad enough to warrant Bloom’s reaction and ask for more in return from MIN — I do still hope this deal gets done and SP or RP I do think Graterol has huge potential… as a Sox fan I was excited to see them acquire such a power arm. But if he’s so badly injured that he won’t ever be able to start — then yeah, they do need something in addition to him to make the trade fair.
I’m guessing it turns into a Bos-LAD-LAA trade
Getting Maeda would be a coup for Eppler, certainly. Angels rotation would be looking more acceptable
Especially if they add Maeda and Stripling
Could see Braves taking Twins part sending Bryce Wilson or Touki Toussaint to Boston with Kenta Maeda coming to Atlanta.
Both those guys suck and what would Atlanta get back? Maeda? Not a good fit.
Maeda is a good fit in Atlanta. Folty and Newk are headcases. Bryce and Touki have similar profiles as Graterol.
They do not. All maeda would do is block a guy like Ian Anderson from his rightful rotation spot.
Both 21-22 years old, hard throwing, former top 100 prospects, limited ML experience, still have rookie status, teams not sure if SP or RP…I mean, pretty similar. We lost a lot of innings with Julio and Keuchel leaving, only replaced them with an injury prone Hamels. Folty and Newk struggles at times last year, Soroka and Fried have both been injured recently…Not to mention Wright was atrocious last year in his limited mlb time. And Anderson struggled at AAA, let’s not give him a spot yet. We signed Felix Hernandez…that should tell you something. We definitely need another mid rotation arm.
Both FAILED top prospects who couldnt hack in the major leagues. Graterol has a much more enticing profile of pure stuff than both those guys. There’s a reason you want to trade them, pretty obvious!
Considering Bryce is 22, and was a consensus too 100 rated prospect last year, I wouldn’t call him a lost cause. He was yo yo’d between Gwinnett and Atlanta and shuffled from starting to the pen and really had no chance for success. His pure stuff is as good or better than anyone else in the system. You sound like someone who’s never seen BW pitch an inning so no sense in trying to change your mind. He certainly has boom or bust potential, just like Graterol.
Twins had no choice here! Absolutely ridiculous for boston to ask minnesota for more players. They were getting nothing from boston. There’s no way the Twins would burn 2 good prospects for kenta maeda. It just makes no sense!
I can’t see another team absorbing Price and Betts salaries. Not gonna happen
Scrap the whole thing. It was light from the beginning and the medicals and Verdugo’s character issues just made the optics that much worse. We learned 2 things these past 4 days or so…1) Mookie would stay in Boston (according to the Jim Rice Conversation minutes before the trade was announced)…2) The Sox are willing to pay down Price’s deal by 50%…so go back to the drawing board. Package JBJ and Price (eating 50%) and get a decent prospect or 2 (not a blue chip guy but a prospect with some upside) and extend Betts. The JBJ/Price trade gets em under the CBT line, and let the Betts extension start for 2021 and they’re golden
Lol, no one is taking Price and Bradley
I think there are a lot of teams that would take David Price @ $16M/yr. Both the Angels and Phillies come to mind right off the bat. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if Price gets moved separately now and if that happens, the price for Mookie goes WAY up for the Dodgers. Dodgers would be smart to kick in Gray and call it a trade.
While it’s a big IF…if Sale, Eovaldi & Price are healthy this year, Boston has more than enough to compete in 2020 if this deal falls apart. They can just pay the CBT this season and deal with next year.
If there were it would have happened already. Price is 34 YO with an injury history that makes Graterol look like Superman. Had a great “18 but bookended by 2 years where he barely went 100 IP. 3 more years of that at $16 mil per – nope.
Dorothy you might consider a trip to Kansas
Betts has already stated that he is going to test free agency. The only way Boston could trade Price is because Betts is included. So your answer to this is remove the only valuable part of the trade and add another player no one wants?
Verdugo has character issues? Jeebus the things people come up with.
Yeah, I think those “character issues” are from uninformed fans of other teams belly-aching about how quickly Verdugo may or may not be coming back from his latest injury.
Everything that I’ve heard about teammate reactions to Verdugo in the clubhouse has been positive.
He would be regarded as an accomplice to a sexual assault under Arizona law.
beyondtheboxscore.com/2020/2/6/21124292/red-sox-do…
@Polar girl, thanks for sharing this. I can’t believe this was just swept under the rug. Makes me mad.
If you read the links you will see that MLB did in fact look into this and did not find the accusation to be credible. This in effect is what was reported near the end of SI article.
Mlb also said there was zero evidence of buzzer use by astros despite one falling on the ground and being stuck to the catchers glove picking it up in the WS… or post game interviews showing what looked like one on a collarbone.
Sometimes MLB’s ‘zero evidence’ appears to mean ‘we just don’t want to know’ kind of how steroids were handled for the decade-plus.
I’m not saying there was something more there, read for yourself. But I don’t just take MLB’s word for anything.
What I am saying here is the allegation that MLB “swept it under the rug” is apparently not true. So many incidents of suspected domestic violence have been investigated under the joint policy, that claiming this was some sort of “cover up” is automatically suspect. It is even more suspect when the additional suggestion is made that a person committed a crime, where none was ever charged.
@blueskyLA, PolarGirl stated that this is a criminal offense punishable within the state of Arizona where the event occurred. An MLB investigation should not under any circumstance intercede with state law enforcement.
blogs.fangraphs.com/the-dodgers-other-legal-matter…
Not the Verdugo incident, merely another where Dodgers FO made a situation with a player go away.
So did MLB intercede? No. What you say might be true, if it actually happened, and that’s far from clear. From what I am seeing here the only “character issue” here is character assassination.
MLB is softer than the NFL. That being said, if they had an official toilet paper, it would be Charmin Ultra Soft.
This is even with the fact the NFL has been really soft at times.
This may be the most ridiculous pie in the sky idea Ive read on here. Here are the teams lining up to trade for Jackie Bradley Jr:
Dumb idea.
I really hope they come back to the table… the Sox HAVE to get this trade done. And I was actually excited about Graterol’s potential but admit if he has an injury that will prevent him from ever being a SP again… that’s obviously an issue. I know people have pointed out that people have long believed Graterol would be a RP but in all fairness he has been a VERY productive SP in the minors when healthy so I don’t really think it’s entirely fair to say “everyone should have known” — he’s been a SP his whole career… why would a team assume a 21 year old would have an injury preventing him from being one again… if he does have an arm issue that serious I don’t blame the Sox for balking at the trade that was agreed upon BUT I think at this point RP/SP as long as he’s healthy enough to play — the Sox HAVE to finalize this trade. For one Price CAN’T come back at this point and Bloom really needs to decide if making himself a pariah amongst the league’s GMs is really worth it — if he lets this fall through why would any team in the league want to deal with him in the future!? PLEASE for everyone’s sake let’s hope they can figure this thing out!!
Plenty of pitchers of come back from TJ to be ML starters. I wholly object to your assertion that his injury prevents him from starting.
I believe the Red Sox are concerned with Graterol’s shoulder injury and not his repaired elbow. He had shoulder troubles last year and if there is labrum or rotator cuff issues, I don’t blame them for walking away.
TJ repairs do not bother Boston. They signed Eovaldi to a 4 year deal who has had 2 TJ surgeries in his career so it has to be the shoulder that worries them.
I think the fact that Graterol only has two good pitches is the sign that he can’t start. It’s been reported by prospect rankings for years that his likely outcome is a reliever. These are reports even before TJ and before last years shoulder problems. The health issue only makes that even worse.
His ceiling is/was a top of the rotation starter. Key word ceiling (most guys don’t reach their ceiling). He’s been trying for at least two years to develop a changeup and so far it’s not working. MLB is filled with hundreds of guys who never develop that third pitch. That happens way more often than a guy being able to add one successfully. Of course you can keep trying because he’s young. A pitcher can be the healthiest guy in the world, if he only has two pitches he’ll never be a stud starter.
This is not a post to dismiss the health issue. The health issue is a legit concern, but Graterol’s most likely outcome has always been a reliever…long before he ever got hurt. The Twins and prospect rankings were trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn’t.
So anyone who thinks Bloom is operating on his own is a bit silly. No doubt the decision to move Betts (with or without Price) is ownership driven.
Where Bloom DOES fit in though is the return; John Henry wouldn’t know Brusdar Graterol from Harry Gatorade. That’s Bloom’s supposed expertise.
But he’s pooped the bed. This unbelievable nonsense of Graterol’s variable value based on starting/relieving, and the leaking of the details, makes Bloom look like he just doesn’t belong in the big pond.
SOME (obviously not the Globe guys) have speculated Bloom is the sacrificial lamb, from the get-go; Sox finish at .500 or below, Chaim’s back in Tampa faster than you can say Jonny Gomes.
Might be some truth in that.
If Bloom extracts more value because of this drama, he’s doing A+ Gm’ing. And that’s exactly what will happen. He’s got the Dodgers over the barrel.
No he doesn’t, he killing the best deal he’ll ever get! Keep thinking boston has leverage here, they do not!! Dodgers can easily say, screw it, we already have a great team. We can just sign Betts in next years offseason for nothing. Dodgers have the leverage and the money.
The Boston front office is a mess right now. Keep in mind that Boston kept all 3 executives who interviewed for the job Bloom ended up getting and they still have a big say in what transactions are made. If Boston truly wanted to give Bloom full control of the team, they would have allowed him to keep one of these people and jettison the other two. I can only imagine the in-fighting that is going on between them and then add a meddling owner like Henry into the mix. Bloom clearly has his hands full and like you said, he appears to be setup to fail, which would be a shame as he is great choice for the job.
It would be perfect if the Dodgers told the Whiny Sox to take Verdugo (by himself) for Price and Betts, or the deal is off. The Red Sox aren’t going to get a better deal anywhere else.
I would love it if Houston gave MLB the middle finger and traded for Betts & Price. People would be so pissed! They could trade Yordan Alvarez, Reddick and a pitching prospect to Boston. Price would give them the 3rd veteran they are looking for and Betts would make Houston the best offense in baseball. Could you imagine these comment boards if that deal went down? Instant entertainment for months!
That would be the worst trade ever for Houston. Yordan Alvarez!? You don’t trade a star calibur young hitter for an expensive rental. Stupid as can be if they did that.
Yes! Please trade Alvarez!!! I’d love for the Angels not to have to face him multiple times a year. How on earth could the Astros afford Mookie Betts next off-season? Hahaha…. yes Astros…. please make that trade!
Springer instead of Betts and give them Whitley
another dumb post. You people act like this Sox franchise is garbage. They would laugh at la and hang up and ship him to the Padres and say deal with that
Actually Kingtiger that is not a bad idea if you look at it from a potential War and $$ over the term off the 3 players involved.
War
LA – Betts 1 yr x 7 War , Price 3 yr x 3 Yr (very generous ) – Total 16 War
Boston – Verdugo 5 yr x 3.2 War -Total 16 War
Salary
La- 1x Yr Betts- $27m 3x Price -$48M -Total 75 m
Boston- 3 yrs Price -$48M
Verdugo- 2x Pre Arb $1.5m , Yr 1 Arb- $4.5m,
Yr 2 Arb -8 m, Yr 3 Arb 13m -27m
Total – 75m
Yes Verdugo may make slightly more in arb but lets not forget the money Boston is saving in luxury tax this yr +Not Losing 10 spots in the draft + International bonus money ( think i read it would be 500,000 )
All the way around both teams win.
Boston gets a good young player and dumps Price.
La gets the one yr of the player they want to try and get over the top and win the WS.
“Mr. Bloom – San Diego is holding on line 2.”
Why don’t the Dodgers send Maeda to the Red Sox?
Jorge, Because the Red Sox want to stay under the cap.
Seems like it could work if LA took on more of Price’s contract.
Gonsolin is not going to start for the Dodgers. You would think they would do Betts, Price and the Sox up the cash per year to $22 million for Maeda, Gonsolin and Verdugo. The Sox get the young starter and the veteran starter they can put in their rotation this year. The Dodgers get the disgruntled Maeda and his contract off the team while maintaining a smaller hit on the cap. The Sox would still be under the tax.
There is no way you can make a trade with the Dodgers where they both stay under the threshold. That’s why Pederson and Maeda were included in the deal to teams that could take the salary.
What are the Sox doing? They should have non tendered Bradley, not signed Perez, Moreland and Peraza. That’s nearly 25 million right there. Let Dalbec and Chavis play the right side on the infield and sign Billy Hamilton to replace JBJ for nothing. Then you could flip Betts and get full value and worry about eating money and shipping Price out later. It’s a reset year anyway.
The Pederson deal is separate. That is why the Sox would have to take Maeda and send more cash in the deal. If the deal went through as originally planned the Sox would be 16 million under the threshold. If they took on Maeda and gave another 6 million a year to the Dodgers it works with both.
You don’t know that. Gonsolin started last year and was good and probably should’ve started over a compromised Rich Hill in the playoffs.
The Dodgers have already said Gonsolin is behind May and Wood for the 5th slot this year. He is either in the bullpen or back to AAA.
good move.
This worse than my 2019 booking spree.
Definitely not as bad as my wording.
Does anyone else have a problem with teams releasing details of agreed upon trades to gage the reaction of fan bases only to rescind based on a negative reaction? This is wrong and shouldn’t be allowed.
Does anyone else have a problem with teams releasing details of agreed upon trades to gage the reaction of fan bases only to rescind based on a negative reaction? This is wrong and shouldn’t be allowed.
Does anyone else have a problem with teams releasing details of agreed upon trades to gage the reaction of fan bases only to rescind based on a negative reaction? This is wrong and shouldn’t be allowed.
Not as much of a problem as someone posting their comments 3 times;-) (joking of course).
I really don’t think Boston got cold feet because of fan reactions. They had a legitimate concern over the medical information they received (I’m guessing it is the shoulder issue and not the repaired elbow), which is well within their rights to do so. Imagine if they made this deal and Graterol needs rotator cuff surgery by July or August. They’d really face fan’s fury if that were the case. The Dodgers can fix this easily by including Gray. It all depends how much they truly want Mookie. MLB hasn’t seen a player of Mookie’s talents traded in decades (and the Dodgers know this). Either pay up or shut up. Boston has plenty of money to keep the team intact as is this season and it wouldn’t surprise me if they end up doing that. If they are out of it, they can trade Mookie at the deadline for a heck of a lot more than Verdugo. Let’s see who blinks first.
I didnt mean to and there is no way to delete!
I suspect that whoever leaked the tentative trade to the media will face repercussions from his or her employer. The chief baseball executives know better than to leak information of this nature.
Whoever leaked medical information about Brusdar Graterol could face outside sanctions under HIPAA.
So now what? Whole trade now falls
Apart I imagine
Braves take Maeda, send Touki to Boston.
Wonder what teams would give up for George Springer rather than dealing with Betts and Boston
With or without a buzzer?
Mookie >>> Springer
Mookie >>> Springer
This is a salary dump trade, not a good player for player deal.
Boston should be making LA give up more. The bar should be what St Louis gave Arizona in the Goofy trade. Fact is Price is still a number 2 or 3 starter, so if the sox are eating 50% of his contract then price shouldn’t hurt getting prospects. The Sox should tell the Dodgers to screw. Betts and Price could finally push the Dodgers over the top to win it all, but the Dodgers think hoarding prospects wins titles. Dodger fans can enjoy a division title, because that’s all they will win. Even if the Sox suck this year that’s fine since they win a tile about every 4 years.
…. every 4 years…. every 100+ years…. semantics. Congrats on being a fan for the last 10 years, ps.
The Jays (every 21 years) win the world series more often than the red sox (every 24 years),on average, ps. 😉
Why would I care what the Sox did 50 years ago or 100 years ago? I wasn’t born so that means nothing. I care about the here and now. The blue jays haven’t been relevant since the early 90s so enjoy 4th place.
Bad news…. 4th will be the sox, …with or without this trade happening.
The Red Sox are only any good for the first two decades of a new century. Enjoy the next 86, errrr, 85, years of futility.
Kingtiger are you really trying to rank on the Sox’s? Who won the World Series two years ago. Lmao you’re a complete clown and should just stay off this website
You mean the cheaters who won?
The Cards could use Pederson and have young arms
They just got rid of a couple OF because they had too many …
Why wouldn’t Boston want Maeda? Cheap, dependable, can start or come out of the pen.
Maeda is not cheap, if he starts, he’ll make over ten million dollars. It’s why the Dodgers have been screwing with him for the last few years.
Maeda is not cheap, if he starts, he’ll make over ten million dollars. It’s why the Dodgers have been messing with him for the last few years.
lol same reason the Dodgers don’t want him.
I know what you are trying to say, but they aren’t exactly the same reasons. Maeda doesn’t want to pitch out of the bullpen, which is how he’d get used a lot more this year than even before. Also Friedman kind of dissed him publicly, which could not have gone over well with the player.
Can you blame Maeda? His contract incentives REQUIRE him to be a starter! Of course he’s going to want to build up his innings as a starter. This contract, does not change if he were to change teams. Having an incentive attached to your contract to make him a cheap bullpen arm is something whoever owns him has to deal with. If boston wanted maeda this deal would have been LONG COMPLETED by now. The fact that it’s not tells you all you need to know there.
I didn’t say Boston wanted Maeda. Not sure where you got that idea. In addition to the structure of his contract that pays him more to start, Maeda views himself as a starter. When that comment become public, Friedman responded (again, publicly) that if he wants to start he needs to up his game. Kind of humiliating, don’t you think? Since then they went out and got two more starters who will compete for his slot in the rotation. If that had happened somewhere other than out here on the edge of the known world as far as the baseball establishment is concerned it would have been a pretty big story. If you heard about it anyway you’d have known Maeda was going to be traded. And sure enough.
I was replying to dodgerfan not you – you just chimed in out of the dodger blue.
32 years old with 4 years left on contract
13 million thru bonuses if used as fulltime starter
4.12 ERA when used as starter last 3 seasons
4.54 ERA overall for career when away from Dodger Stadium
A move to the AL is quite likely to produce an aging 10+ million dollar arm with an ERA in the 5.0 range.
If I’m honest, I’m surprised Twins even want him
Someone else should snake this deal by throwing an offer down for Betts. Atlanta maybe?
If Graterol becomes a monster and Betts walks with only QO draft pick compensation going to back to Boston, I don’t know how Red Sox fans could forgive their front office. They can’t, they won’t! The one that got away, boston.
If my Orioles would get in the deal they have perfect prospect like DL Hall (Baseball America #47, Os #3) to get Maeda, a cost controlled quality starter. I get it doesn’t make sense for Os to win a few more games now but I fear having to watch the Orioles rotation this season. While Hall has #3 potential, Maeda is already a #3 at a minimum with years of control and team friendly contract.
1000 times no.
Joel Sherman and John Heyman both state that the Twins haven’t abandoned the deal, but are imposing a Saturday deadline for resolution.
…
George Miller, how did you come up with “Twins Pull Out of Mookie Betts Trade”?
More like the Red Sox. The Twins should be happy.
It was the headline from a Twin Cities newspaper, the first one to report anything.
If the Red Sox have a better offer from another team, TAKE IT! As I see it, it’s very presumptuous to ask for more when there are no other suitors and your objective of shedding massive payroll while gaining upside players in the process is already met. This is the definition of overplaying their hand!
I figured this could be a possibility. Dodgers and Red Sox should look to include the Angels as the third team being that LAD and LAA are already negotiating a trade themselves.
Yeah right. You think Boston wants Rengifo? Nope! What are the elite pitching prospects the Angels have to use? That’s what I thought.
The Angels are not going to send an elite pitching prospect for Stripling.
As far as elite prospect, I have no idea why people don’t consider Canning an elite prospect. Last year ranked 63 by Baseball America and MLB. 56 by Baseball prospectus and if he was still in the minor leagues he’d be ranked much higher than that.
There is no way the Angels would trade Canning for Stripling.
No kidding but they are dealing with the dodgers who just wants to shed some money and open up a spot for David Price. Im saying they don’t have the prospects Boston is seeking should they be that 3rd team.
The Dodgers don’t want David Price. No one does.
If the Red Sox want more for Betts, then they have to keep Price. Five years of Verdugo and a top 100 prospect and the Dodgers taking on Price for one year of Betts is a pretty good deal for the Red Sox.
It WAS a pretty good deal. Looks to be long gone.
Boston now thinks the package from the Padres is a better deal…
Betts to the Padres
That would be the biggest slap in the face to Dodger fans!
Now the Reds will jump in.
Why,
They have 5 good starting pitchers.
They do not want to give up the price for Betts only.
Time for Padres to swoop back in complete a deal for Betts.
Boston is such trash. I can wait til they get fined next week over the cheating scandal. Haha. Front office tools running that scam of a team. Houston and the Sox are such crap and nothing they can do now or 20 years from now will ever change that. I think all of us should post about it once a day so no one forgets.
If the red sox wants to get a savings from Price’s contract & are packaging him with Betts to make it happen their return should be a bit less. LA has no problem paying Price $18mil to be in their rotation but not at full value. If the pitching prospect they are requiring has some red flags then they should & are demanding a adjustment to the deal announced.
If the Braves cared about winning, they would trade their overrated prospects for him.
Red Sox could take Verdugo and Maeda.
Dodgers get Price, Betts.
Why include a 3rd team.
Imagine if the trade falls through.
The Sox probably want someone younger and with a higher ceiling than Maeda.
That trade is FAR WORSE for Boston than the trade they are waffling on. FAR WORSE! They downgrade both players there with no upside.
Why would the Dodgers want to give Maeda away to take on Price in exchange….that’s pretty lopsided….its the Red Sox who are desperate to include Price and that is probably weighing this entire trade down!
Maeda is more a problem than asset for Dodgers.
They cant use him as a Starter because his salary would balloon to the point he could make 13 million a year. Plus, He’s not that good in a rotation and a liability when away from Dodger Stadium. But he wants to start and has been vocal about it. Add in 4 years commitment and his already being 32, and you can quickly see why the Dodgers hope to trade him.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the Dodgers dont see it as basically two 1for1 trades. And I’m confident they would much rather have Price moving forward
That is why the Dodgers are trading Verdugo+Maeda for Betts+Price, with the deal dependent on the Red Sox being able to get a prospect for Maeda in return (the current holdup)
I’m not really sure how you can say that about Maeda. The Dodgers have been in one pennant race with Maeda on the roster and it was the only time they used him as a starter.
175 innings, ERA+ 115 (3.48). 1.139 Whip. Third in Rookie of the year. After that, every time he approaches innings thresholds, the Dodgers shut him down.
Yes, as is often the case with rookies (especially those from overseas,) he wasnt that bad before the league had a chance to scout him.
Darkstar is right. Maeda wants to start to earn his money and LA wants to limit his innings – imagine how that relationship is going?
Vegas, because then both the Dodgers and Red Sox would be over the threshold.
If the Red Sox took Price out of the deal then they could get more for Mookie.
Price is weighing down this deal
They still save $27M by trading Betts and are about $5M below the CBT threshold in doing so.
Then they could demand an additional prospect or player from LAD that won’t put them over the CBT threshold.
As bad as Price is he is a sunk cost and paying LAD $48M to take him off our hands may not be the best of moves and he drags Bett’s value down.
Straight up one on one they can get more for Betts than just Verdugo if you take Price out of the deal?.
I think Boston loves the idea of shedding that salary. They are the ones who are likely pushing for Price to be included here.
No doubt about it. Boston is pushing for Price to be unloaded.
If they just traded Price one on one straight up they’d have to pay more than $48M for someone to take him off out hands?
So why trade him at all?
Just consider Price a loss and salvage what you can out of him.
A lesson on why long term expensive contracts are bad.
Because that defeats the objective of ridding themselves of his toxic contract and freeing up money to lock up some core players like Bogaerts and Devers who will be due large raises before the Price contract is done. Pretty obvious.
@moneyballer-
You do realize bogaerts just started a brand new 6 yr 120m contract right?
And devers is still pre-arb while price only has 3 years left on his contract?
So what you said is true for… Neither player.
LAD could also offer Betts the same deal as Mike Trout 12/$426.5M and lock Betts up. Betts and Bellinger. WOW
We know that’s not happening!
Why?
You don’t think Mookie’s as good a Mike Trout?
Shame on you!
Everyone on the MLB Network already has him in Cooperstown.
I’m just kidding you.
But don’t tell Mookie we think that
He might want $800M
LOL
I think mookie is multiple times better than mike trout! The reason I said it’s not happening is because LA would be ripping mookie off!
It’s similar to the Mets’ pretty-much-failed trade for Edwin Diaz where Seattle forced them to take Cano. Cano has no value, but Diaz had a ton of it. Like that trade, Price has no value but if a team wants Betts, a condition of any trade will be taking David Price.
When you purchase a used car, you take it to a mechanic BEFORE you make a commitment. This is a total MLB failure in procedure. If I created a deal like this when I was working (I’m retired) I would have been fired. Is this some kind of PR ruse? I know MLB lives on trades based on physicals after the fact. Time to change procedure & kick the tires BEFORE you give a press release.
The whole reason this drama is a thing is because the deal was NOT final and the Red Sox had NOT made the commitment yet. That’s why it remains a matter to be worked out between the 3 teams and MLB is not involved.
Its against the law to share the medical records prior to the trade.
If by “kick the tires before you give a press release” you mean teams not announcing it, then that is already what happened here. None of the three announced it officially.
Someone leaked it that the deal was in place and the reporters did their job in reporting it. The leaker was the problem. Most of the time trades aren’t held up for medical so it doesn’t usually matter. It became an issue because of medicals.
I wouldn’t swap nickels with Bloom if this is how he does business. What a jerk off way to start your new job. SMH
Asking for more value after review of a player’s medicals is 100% normal and happens all the time. If anything, the Twins are the ones who tried to pull a fast one here. Everyone on this site needs to calm the eff down.
Make no mistake about it: Chaim Bloom made a classic rookie mistake and panicked himself into a corner in which his options now range from bad to worse. He was perfectly well aware of Brusdar Graterol’s medical history. The fact is, the media spooked him — and he tried to pressure the Twins into giving up a second top ten prospect and Minnesota has called his bluff. Bloom now has three choices: 1) scuttle the entire trade and keep Betts and Price, 2) Back down and accept Minnesota’s offer of Graterol plus a prospective second mid-level prospect, or 3) Scramble to find a third partner to complete the deal. None of these options are good for Boston. Bloom will look bad no matter the outcome here.
He did nothing of the sort. He is in the process of extracting more value out of the deal after someone prematurely leaked it. Or else he has a better offer on the table. Bloom is not a rookie (he was the extremely successful Rays GM before this).
i know this is nitpicky on my part, but he was the Senior VP of Baseball Operations, not the GM.
Unless the TJ surgery was botched (highly unlikely), it’s most likely Graterol’s 2019 shoulder injury that concerns them. Boston would have no knowledge of that injury until they were given his medical records. A frayed labrum or partial torn rotator cuff would scare off any team from this deal. Unfortunately, we’ll never know as they cannot explain to the public what exactly concerned them with his medicals. Common sense says it’s not his elbow as most TJ patients come back stronger once the procedure is done.
Excellent point
Best comment of this thread! 100% correct!
Dodgers either step up and send a pitching prospect to the Red Sox or the deal is dead.
Let it die…sox aren’t going anywhere this year… let them suffer price’s contract. Don’t bail them out…
Done. Andre Jackson.
After reading more about Verdugo, I wouldn’t mind if the Red Sox just walk away from this deal altogether. Not only does he have a serious back/core issue which still has not fully healed, he’s admitted to the fact that his conditioning is not great either. Couple that with a pitcher with health concerns and we could be talking about 2 players who spend more time on the IL than on the diamond in 2020 for the 2nd best player in baseball and a proven, gritty starter (albeit with an attitude problem). The CBT issue with Boston is a joke. They make plenty of money and will still turn a sizable profit even if they pay a 75% on their payroll overages. If their starting pitchers are healthy, they have as good of chance of going deep in the playoffs as anyone so unless they are blown away by the return, they should just get the band back together and make a run at it in 2020. They can always make a trade at the deadline. If Price stays healthy in the first half, they’ll get plenty of interest in him come July, so long as they still agree to pay down 50% of his remaining obligations, and Mookie will bring much more than just Verdugo in July for a team that feels they are one major addition away from winning it all.
Verdugo and Graterol are both top 100 prospects (or in Verdugo’s case, recently graduated). Red Sox getting 11 years combined of those guys AND $20m in extra salary space for next off-season is an excellent return for one year of Mookie Betts. They knew they weren’t competing in 2020, not with that pitching staff.
Someone wrote a greet article a while back about Top 100 MLB prospects. If I recall correctly, over 60% of them fail to make even a moderate impact in the major leagues and less than 5-6% of them become high impact players (stars). Couple that with injury concerns and I can understand why Boston is concerned. If you ask me, Mookie is the most complete baseball player in MLB. The best base runner, excellent power for his size, gold glove defense and a canon for an arm. While Trout is the gold standard, Mookie on defense is much better than Trout and more than holds his own at the plate. If there’s one player you go all in for, it’s someone like Mookie even if it’s just for one year. He certainly can put a team like the Dodgers over the top. LA needs to suck it up and add more to the deal. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Friedman and the Dodgers to get an instant MVP candidate for 2-3 ‘maybes’ from their minor league system. Either pay up or shut up.
I’ve been wondering if Mookie’s offensive production was …enhanced … as a result of the cheating scandal. Making me think that the Red Sox want this trade completed before the details of what they were doing becomes public.
Well if they were worried about that. They should of taken the pitcher from the Twins. And then if that pitcher was damaged good. File a grievance.
Well then why is Boston asking for top 100 prospects if they fail so often? And if Mookie is the most complete player in baseball, why doesn’t Boston keep him?
LA does not need to suck anything up. And you, I believe, are so wrong on Betts being better than several players in MLB
And if Betts gets hurt before the deadline like Donaldson did in 2018. Sox get a comp pic at best.
Red sox brass should just drive a mile from jetblue and watch Graterol throw live. Whats the holdup.
This is all on Bloom and it is all about Verdugo using the Twins pitcher as a scapegoat to get out of the deal. He could now insist on higher Dodger players and knowing the Dodgers will not give in, scuttle the whole trade and keep Betts.
it’s odd that the red sox are ALLOWED to pull out at this point, or to ask for more. seems to me that everyone knew Graterol had an injury and moved to the bullpen late last year, where he was phenomenal, by the way. lots of reports on this AFTER the trade…and THEN the red sox start complaining? where was their due diligence? thought Chaim Bloom was some kind of genius…don’t think they should be allowed to ask for more…Twins should absolutely pull out of the deal…
9 2/3 relief innings with 5 earned runs allowed in the majors is far from phenomenal if you ask me. All he showed was a 100mph fastball which are starting to become a dime a dozen.
And 7-0 with a sub 2 ERA and sub 1 WHIP across 3 levels last year in minors. This looks like what they thought Eovaldi was supposed to be. Maybe the body mass index isn’t up to snuff.
9 2/3 relief innings with 5 earned runs allowed in the majors is far from phenomenal if you ask me.
———————————————-
He had one bad outing v Cleveland. After that, he maintained a 2.35 for the remainder of the season. Perhaps more importantly. he did not seem to have much trouble against major league hitters, even at age 21.
It’s not odd at all, this is why teams are allowed to review medicals before completing a trade.
Per Outinleftfield “Its against the law to share the medical records prior to the trade.”
Which is it, you can or you can’t.?
Per Outinleftfield “Its against the law to share the medical records prior to the trade”
Which is it, you can or you can’t share medical records?
A Major League Franchise should not be able to back out of an agreed upon trade based on the same information that is available in a 30 second Google Search.
The fact that Graterol was healthy, throwing 100 MPH at the end of the season and nothing has changed since then, means there is no changed circumstance. Thus, there is no grounds to block an agreed upon trade from going through.
You have no idea what his medical records showed. Sure he had Tj surgery that everyone knew about, but he also suffered a shoulder injury last year that no one besides MIN had any details on. Unless the TJ surgery was botched (highly unlikely) their concerns are about his shoulder and not his elbow.
This is a long shot but what about a 5th team like my tigers getting invovled. They trade matt boyd to angels for brandon marsh and angels trade boyd to bosyon to complete the rest of their to be annouced trade to the dodgers. Then its done and everyone can move on to the next big trade rumor.
Tigers will want more for Boyd. Red Sox won’t want Boyd. They want a younger pitcher.
Tigers would have to give up like Matt Manning to get Kenta Maeda if they want in. I highly doubt they will want that. Although maybe they could get the Dodgers to absorb Zimmermann as well. Paying off other teams mistakes is basically what the Dodgers are good at
Im a diehard tigers fan but even i know their asking price for boyd is ridicoulous. They will not give up any top prospects for nyone for sure. Thats all we have lol
I agree that it is ridiculous. But it is still their asking price. Just because everyone knows they are asking too much means nothing if they don’t want to lower the price.
Chaim Bloom reminds me of Gabe Kapler as the Phils manager. Everyone regarded both of them both as baseball geniuses and yet both made errors that even average front office personnel or managers would never make.
Nonsense. It is a fine trade if Gratersol is healthy.
Oh yeah sure. If he didn’t mess up, it would be a fine trade.
It was a fine at bat if the batter didn’t strike out.
I don’t get why a second team NEEDS to be involved. Maeda’s contract is so team friendly that the Red Sox can add him to the rotation this year. I say betts and price for verdugo and maeda.
If Maeda starts for the Red Sox all season, he would be due $13M – $14M under his current contract. With Boston already paying $16M/yr. towards Price, there’s no way Boston would do that. That’s basically paying $30M for Maeda while subtracting Price. They want a young, cost controllable pitcher and a 32 year old Maeda certainly is not that.
Yes
And Maeda also has a 4.90 ERA as a starter on the road the last 3 seasons. That while in the NL
Do the Red Sox really want to pay at minimum 20 million, and up to 30 million when Maeda starts, for a 32 year old that may be putting up a 5.5-6.0 ERA in the AL East?
@darkstar61, right on. And that 5-6ish road era is one reason why Twins or anybody else wouldn’t pony up 2 prime prospects for Maeda.
That deal would have been done by now. Clearly and definitively, boston does not want to do that. That’s a horrid deal from boston’s perspective and defeats the purpose of max cost savings.
Likely everyone has too much tied up in this deal(s) to let it/them fold. Someone is going to slip the Red Sox a few bucks or a lower tiered prospect so they can all save face. And that will be score one for Bloom, who will spin his “OMG” into a renegotiation. But there is a small but measurable possibility that it all collapses, and then one would have to ask whether Bloom didn’t miss the forest (cost controlled locked up good outfielder and a ton of salary relief) for the trees.
bloom is blown already. no f/o will trust him in any deals!
I know what happened!
The Red Sox wanted to create fake news just to see the reaction.
This lets David Price see that he is virtually worthless.
And Betts now knows that all they can get for him is Verdugo.
Sort of like a practice free agency for each player to see what they’re really worth and maybe make them come down to earth a bit and wake up and smell the coffee?
This stinks of Arod and Manny trade.. Betts and price to yanks for andujar Clint Frazier and some Krispy Kreme’s!
Seems like the Twins have offered another top 20 prospect to sweeten the deal and get this done and Boston is still holding out? This sounds like the conspiracy theories involving Boston’s ownership were right at this point.
If Boston still wants Graterol, then another top 20 prospect in a deep farm system is a pretty significant addition. Can’t have your cake and eat it, too. I expect this deal to fall apart now as the Twins can’t be expected to do more and Boston can’t accept the Twins more than fair offer at this point.
The biggest question I have is whether or not this will light a fire under Graterol and the Twins to double-down on making Graterol a starter?
Twins should use boston’s stance on Graterol to Freakin KEEP Graterol! Don’t like his medicals? Fine we’ll keep a guy we liked all along! Truth is they are TOTALLY FINE with his medicals, they just want a larger return.
Bluff called.
Here’s what you’re missing. Boston wasnt/isn’t trying to tear down and the goal isn’t simply to get impact full talent back.
The talent MUST at this point satisfy two criteria:
1) there needs to be a MLB-caliber OFer;
2) there needs to be a MLB-caliber SP.
Additionally, because of mookie’s talent, and the amount paid down on Price, they want significant control. I’d say 5/6 years each is the goal.
Graterol doesn’t make the SP cut. We don’t know who boston asked for to make up the difference, except they were highly ranked
It is and was widely known that Graterol was not an MLB ready starting pitcher right now. Maeda IS an MLB-caliber SP; however, the Red Sox don’t want him, either.
All we know is the Red Sox agreed to the deal, Graterol is exactly who he was before the deal was agreed to and the Red Sox like him enough that they still really want him as the headliner in the Price piece. That says Boston is still bullish on Graterol, they’re just negotiating in bad faith at this point.
Here’s the deal. Graterol is starter that hasn’t been stretched out after TJ surgery and hasn’t pitched past AA as a starter. YET. His medical history is just that. History.
He does not have the innings built up enough for any major league coaches or front offices in all of baseball to consider him a mlb ready starter for 162 games. BUT he is so good and happened to have some innings still available last year that the 100+ win twins thought that his stuff was definitely good enough to get out mlb hitters from the pen.(and it was) So they used him in sept and oct since they got totally hosed by the giants damaged goods on their attempt the shore up their pen via trade. (Another attempt to fleece a small market team by big boys swinging big dicks).
It is like the Sox have the most rudimentary front office in baseball to believe that they did not know this info. Why did they even ask for him? Why do they still want him? Because he is really good. Just not ready.
The problem is they didn’t look at his innings load and are just now realizing he won’t contribute as a starter for at least another year. As a reliever right now he will be golden, but the bsox want him to be golden now as a starter and that has nothing to do with anything but another year needed in the minors to build up innings not his Medicals. It’s So transparent. Twins should lawyer up on his one. Even if the trade flames Out or not, they still did harm to them and to Graterols career.
Yankees swoop in somehow stay tuned
Why not?
They’re already over the CBT by $50M.
What’s another $60M?
Are Red Sox fans hoping this deal implodes and Betts remains on their team for 2020?
It wouldn’t the worst thing if it happened. They can make a better deal at the trade deadline with a desperate team.
It is Boston who is the desperate team.
That won’t happen because with Price still on their books they won’t have the funds to compete with other teams going after Betts that will have at least 35 to million a year to offer Betts, when Boston could only offer $30 million a year. Boston would be essentially out of the running for Betts in 2021. Betts already said “no discounts and he’s going for the biggest payday no exceptions.
“..the Twins have expressed a willingness to include one of their top-20 prospects to push the deal across the goal line, but even that hasn’t met the Red Sox’ heightened asking price.” – MLBTR
wtf?
This and cheating too huh. Wow.
Twins should use boston’s stance on Graterol to Freakin KEEP Graterol! Don’t like his medicals? Fine we’ll keep a guy we liked all along! Truth is they are TOTALLY FINE with his medicals, they just want a larger return.
Keep in mind that the MIN trade was technically between LA & MIN. So if Graterol is the next stud ML pitcher, why doesn’t LA complete this trade with MIN and leave Boston out of it? They could get rid of a disgruntled Maeda and get a stud in Graterol.
Answer: because the Dodgers are equally concerned with Graterol’s medical results. This is the most telling piece of this entire deal. LA would jump at the opportunity to make this deal if Graterol was healthy. This is how Friedman has built such a great pool of prospects (see Josiah Gray trade from last year).
Well why would the Twins themselves do the deal if he was the next stud? LA probably doesn’t want to do the deal because they, like MIN, project him for RP, and giving Maeda for a future reliever makes no sense for them. It seems Graterol’s medicals are concerning to the Red Sox because they are the only ones not named Boras who still thought he could run out at SP, and are now trying to backtrack their poor due diligence.
It kind of does for LA though because they want to use Kenta out of the pen anyway and Graterol would be a better flame thrower to utilize in that roll. Cheaper too. Here is the real issue. Both Twins and Dodgers are looking to make impact moves designed to win now. Graterol is still a top flight prospect but as a win-now move, this isn’t the one to make. What would boston do if the Twins/Dodgers did make this little swap without their involvement?! That would be funny as hell.
No, the Dodgers are in a win now position so Maeda is a better deal for them. The Twins are in the same position as the Dodgers so they’re also willing to make the deal. Maeda > Graterol as a starter in 2020 and nobody debates that.
The Red Sox are in a position where they want to cut massive excess weight from their payroll and re-tool for 2021… which is why they wanted Graterol instead of Maeda.
Which is now belied by the latest rumor that the LA / MIn Maeda for Graterol deal has more going to the Twins.!
No they are not
it’s OK, Dodgers are used to 2nd place
i think this is the right move on MIN’s part. as much as i like Maeda and his contract, Graterol is too valueable a chip to simply be part of a trade for him.
Why don’t they just place Price on waivers and see if anyone claims him?
No one will, and then they have to pay 100% (minus a whatever someone pays him). No one claim him and he is a free agent. Sign with any team for 600K.
This is all a ploy to get a larger return. The Red Sox aren’t really sour on Graterol because if they were he would be out of the deal and replaced with another Twins pitching prospect like oh Balazovic or Duran. Or they would ask for a Dodgers pitching prospect. They still want Graterol (cuz he has a triple digit fastball) AND something else. They’re being ridiculous.
Nope. The Red Sox don’t do that.
No, it’s pretty clear at this point the Red Sox are manipulating the situation.
Unethical and cheaters. Sox do do that. Doodoo
Boston has already tried this (asked LA for a different pitcher). The sole reason MIN was brought into this deal is because LA was unwilling to part with one of their top pitching prospects. I’m sure Boston asked for May and were rebuffed. They most likely asked for Josiah Gray too (who is ranked higher than Graterol in the Top 100) but LA would not do that either.
Well now you’re just pointing out the obvious, dorothy.
Send Stripling to Boston instead of the Angels. Stripling is damn good. I don’t like losing him but if they are going to lose him send him to Boston and maybe we keep Joc
They would never do it. They want upside, a guy they could develop into a star. Stripling is absolutely NOT that guy. Why would they downgrade from Price to Stripling? Betts to Verdugo? Will not happen!
Stripling is at least a better value, ans may be better regardless given Price’s health concerns
No way. Do you honestly think boston would agree to a deal of betts/price for verdugo/stripling? The boston media would crucify them if they did that!
1-I pray that the ownership is not listening to the media. The Boston media will hate every trade, even if it was for Trout. And they are generally the least baseball-literate people in the country.
2-For value purposes, I like Stripling. I’d like to see Verdugo & Stripling, and maybe one other lesser prospect. Or Stripling + Pederson, and we return some far off prospect. I think we can compete this year with that, and if not, trade both guys off at the deadline.
Joe – are you a boston fan? That is just not a good return at all for Betts/Price. Shocking you would be OK with that.
Why are the Bosox so anxious to unload a top notch young player with both offensive and defensive skills? I don’t get it. I hope LA does not get him.
he’s expensive and needed to dump Price’s salery
Someone else in here said it, but in today’s game, you are trading contracts, not players. It’s more important to have a good player for 5 years than a great player for one year.
Yes Joe, I would certainly agree that having a good player for 5 years is preferable. However, teams today are constantly trading players to upgrade their club. Only occasionally do these ludicrous excessive contracts (Price) factor in. LA and Boston both have deep pockets, so they will figure out who pays what-if they want to. Betts will be a free agent next year. He will be pushing hard to have a good year in 2020.
DD did this once. Bloom is trying to avoid it.
Graterol is grating on me.
Back to the Padres offer.
To hell with Boston and their cheating. The Twins made a fair offer — a known starter for a unicorn arm with closer potential. Come on — If anyone things Boston wanted to turn Graterol’s 103 MPH fastball into a starter, they are high on dope.
Boston’s fan base howled because they didn’t get enough back for two stars. Cheaters.
AngerBot Angry!
I’ll repeat what I said above. The Graterol deal was between LA & MIN. If Graterol is healthy, LA does this deal directly with MIN and leaves BOS out of it. They get to move on from a disgruntled Maeda for a young, stud, cost-controlled reliever.
The reason why LA is not still doing this deal is because they are also scared by the medical reports of Graterol. Otherwise, he would be a Dodger right now.
In what sense was the Brusdar Gratreroil deal between the Twins and the Dodgers? Did Gratrerol pass the Dodgers’ physical? If not, there was no deal.
The Red Sox presumably wanted an arm back in a trade of Mookie Betts and David Price and went for an alternative to whatever the Dodgers were offering (which logically would have been Kenta Maeda). Knowing they could obtain Maeda, the Red Sox could have shopped Maeda around, making the Graterol deal between the Red Sox and the Twins.
You’ve repeated it, but it’s still wrong. Please read the story.
AngerBot not angry, just a little sad.
To make these trades happen correctly (on paper) LA acquires Graterol and flips him to the Red Sox. That’s just how it works. I agree LA did this extra move on behalf of Boston, but he gets traded to LA first and then moved to Boston.
Regardless, answer this question. Minnesota was happy with the return of Maeda for Graterol, and Maeda wants to move on from LA due to their ongoing usage/contract dispute. If Graterol is 100% healthy and a can’t miss Top 100 prospect, why doesn’t LA consummate the deal directly with the Twins? This has been Friedman’s MO for the past 5+ seasons (even longer going back to Tampa). So LA has a chance to move a disgruntled pitcher for a Top 100 pitching prospect. Why don’t they do it? 3 guesses….
Go AngerBot
Dorothy – I’ll play devils advocate and throw something out I don’t believe.
Maeda is by accounts disgruntled. However, he may also like the idea of a shot at a ring which being in LA at least gives a shot at. He may also be more willing to remain/a little less disgruntled in LA with the departure of Ryu and Hill.
For LA, maeda is an interesting piece. It’s solid #3 depth in the average rotation, but, it only cost 4-5m to keep him around as a long reliever until/unless needed to spring into the rotation upon an injury. Thats a really nice depth piece as a luxury.
Do I trade that away as friedman? Not unless it’s part of the cost to get Mookie in town and I get someone with more upside (Price, who at the all star break last season before the surgically removed cyst was among league leaders in many personal categoties and posted 2 war in that roughly half a campaign in 2019).
So. Theres that argument.
Personally, I believe in the I’ve seen or heard the medical issues and don’t feel the return is worth it.
This you have backwards
LA made a trade with Boston; Verdugo+Maeda for Betts+Price
Boston was then flipping Maeda to Minnesota
That is why the hold up – Boston is trying to get more for Maeda than originally agreed to. LA is not involved in those conversations as they have no dealings with Minnesota; their deal is solely with Boston (it is held up as it depends on Boston being able to flip Maeda)
The 2for2 between the Dodgers and Red Sox is complete and will go down as soon as Boston finds a way to subsequently flip newly acquired Maeda.
If there were true medical issues, the Red Sox wouldn’t still really want Graterol.
Graterol was not a pass-thru. Graterol was being traded directly to the Red Sox.
MLB should suspend Bloom for a year so the Red Sox can fire him, too. 🙂
All because a few cry baby Rag Sox fans couldn’t take it, the trade won’t go through. Pure trash. Have fun finishing in 3rd and then not resigning Betts next year because you still have Price.
yeah, thats it…………..
Justin Turner
@redturn2
· 1h
Here’s a concept. Let trades happen, and then report on them! All these reporters only care about being first. Meanwhile players and their families are emotional wrecks not knowing if they are or aren’t being traded from the only org they’ve known. No one cares who was 1st
Here’s Justin Turner’s tweet. Nothing anybody else says means a thing, he is 100% on point
Lol Boston. Why in the world would the twins give another prospect along with gaterol??? Their trade was maeda for gaterol. Why would they just give Boston another player? Sounds like boston has a child for a GM. Lol
Chaim Child
The lesson here is no deal is done until it is done. Just because their are people leaking information all over the place doesn’t mean it’s done.
Throw in venafro and we’ll take mickelson – I don’t even know his name – call us back!
Bloom thought the blowback from the orginal deal was bad but the blowback from this clusterscrew is way worse!
I think I mightve come up with an analogy here. Kinda works, but feel free to disagree.
You’re selling a classic car. Guy calls you up, offers you some cash, and a partial trade. Says he has a daily driver whatever, and the engine was replaced with another used engine so it works fine. you figure it’s servicable and you can get use out of it.
Shows up, the cash portion is all fine and good. You check out the trade and notice there’s some oil leaks on the engine and the transmission you didn’t know about. Does it run and drive? Yes it does. But will those leaks get worse? If they do, it could break down again. So it works – for now – but clearly is at risk of issues and you kind of expected after the previous repairs it wouldn’t need anything or have any warning signs in it.
To you, it’s not worth as much as you thought when you agreed to the sale PENDING checking out the trade.
Is it unreasonable to ask the guy to kick in more money? I wouldnt think so. How much money? You and the buyer may disagree. Could there be hard feelings? Maybe a little – the seller may feel misled about the trade, the buyer may feel the seller is too picky about that daily driver that was usable as is.
BOS and MIN disagree about what value was lost, and what the gap is.
And that’s ok. Just move on.
I hate this so much!
AngerBot Angry!
This feels like the wrong analogy on many levels. Please re-read the article carefully. The Twins have already called Boston’s bluff by offering more. Boston moved the goalpost. AngerBot guessing, but evidently Boston wants to blow up an unpopular deal and shift the blame to a healthy 21-year old.
Angry!
Seller: asking 30,000 for car
Buyer: how about 18K and my trade worth 12k?
Seller: inspects, see original post. I’ll need more than 18k because of what I see here. But if you’ll do 25k cash we can deal.
Buyer: how about 21k plus the trade?
——————–
Thats kinda where we are in the analogy. A couple of you say you hate it, but, it does kinda summarize HOW the BOS/MIN front offices have behaved, even if you want to bicker about dollar values or if one is characterized as a daily driver and another a classic… whatever.
Those aren’t the important parts, it’s the transaction behavior pattern that is the real comparison, and, it seems to be holding.
ALSO, if the earlier reports of min setting a Saturday deadline are true, well, it’s got to either be expired or nearly so by now. So what will MIN do?
Angerbot, Atlsoxfan’s analogy is fine. You, as a Twins fan, just refuse to believe there is something wrong with Graterol. Another analogy, and one that I’ve been thru. You buy a house for $300k, contingent on an inspection.
Everything is fine, except for the inspector says the roof is no good. The owner says never leaks, but the inspector it will need to be replaced within 5 years.. Neither side did anything wrong. You could call off the deal, but if you like the house, maybe you ask the owner to kick in $5,000 towards a new roof.
No the whole thing is just stupid!
The trade is getting more complicated every minute. The more complicated it gets, the more that can go wrong.
Go Cubs Go
I don’t think the Red Sox want Verdugo anymore because of the incident he was either involved in or a part of. Bloom is going to ask the world now if he spoke to Henry and let the whole deal fall apart. Then he should sign Betts and keep him. He is a very good player and well liked by the fans in Boston period.
for sake of Clarity : It isn’t the Twins backing out on the deal.. Its the Red Sox backing out on their agreement..
Yep twins are fine!
Neither – both BOS and MIN are within their respective rights.
There was a contingency in the agreement, where one of 3 things happen: boston signs off on the medical review being acceptable; or, boston received some concession to convince them to waive their bargained for contingency; or, the deal is not considered binding and does not go through.
Boston has said review was unacceptable. The deal moved to the second part of the contingency. Think of this as you’re buying a house, and find out there’s a hidden structural issue you couldn’t see without access inside to inspect. You asked the seller to make up what the difference in value is IN YOUR OPINION. The seller countered with something less than you asked for.
Here, this is where boston has currentlt asked for a highly ranked prospect, presumably one of a couple unknown people. MIN offer something less, that was not on the list BOS offered – reportedly a low 20s prospect from their pipeline.
MIN has, reportedly put a deadline to accept their counteroffer.
Is there a BOS counter to MIN’s counteroffer? We don’t know.
I guess after the deadline by MIN we see if we get to step 3 in the contingency.
Yes in doing so they alone controlled their actions in the deal.. they backed out.. Now they are talking a NEW deal..
The race to 1,000 comments
The Red Sox want to reset the CBT and restock the farm system. They want a team to take on half of Price’s contract and a top HR hitting prospect and a top SP prospect for Betts. Seems like a lot for a year of Betts. They can get another 3rd team involved or the Dodgers can add a top prospect or the Red Sox can take the Dodgers offer of 1 top prospect.
Dodgers want rid of Maeda, and Price is an upgrade there.
If one is to consider the money Boston is eating plus the salary Maeda would make if starting fulltume, the Dodgers are not adding too much salary for that Maeda to Price upgrade.
They would not want to take on the Price salary, give up another top prospect and fail to remove Madea. That would be a horrible deal for Los Angeles.
Boston just needs to find another team they can flip Maeda to. At that point the deal would be completed
darkstar. Price’s 4.28 era is a bad pitcher and not an upgrade on the Dodgers. If the Red Sox accepted Meada instead of a top prospect, the trade would have been completed already. If you feel a star player can get you over the top, cost could be expensive.
Price has been a 3.84 ERA, 3.74 FIP pitcher in the AL East for Boston, and a move to the NL West would be a boost to those numbers. Possibly greatly (they have for Maeda)
Compared to a not-great starting, horrible on road Maeda that the Dodgers are doing about everything they can to not have start, that is a huge upgrade.
The deal would be done if Boston could find someone to give up someone of value for Maeda. We all know they’ve had to have been trying hard already. So far they’ve only been able to find a top-100 that will be restricted to the Pen because of a bad arm.
Minnesota Fans, I apologize and I stand corrected. The Twins do have the power and just stuck it to two huge market teams.
Nice job.
I’m a Dodger fan and I totally get why Minnesota would bounce from this. Hang onto your top prospect and leave the Boston drama behind.
I figured the Angels would be in on Price if Boston paid 75% of the remainder.
Personally, I don’t think Mookie’s new contract is going to age well. He reminds me very much of Andrew McCutchen. Long term deals rarely do. Max Scherzer and Zack Greinke are about the only ones that come immediately to mind.
Hope all the trades go through. Seems fair across the board. I think Boston fans are overvaluing Mookie a bit for what he’s done, but not thinking ahead 3-5 years into a future contract.
If MOokie was a free agent right now I wouldn’t even give him 300 let alone 400. That 2018 was amazing, but previous years weren’t close and last year wasn’t a 300 million player. Ok so injuries maybe hurt him. My ? Is did it hurt his speed permanently? I would say if he has another 2019 he might struggle to get 300 million but there are a lot of dumb teams out there and if he only got 280 Sox fans would be crazed if they didnt pay him the 300 TO keep him. I wouldn’t invest in a small guy or a speed guy. He is both. Someone hitting under .300 and in the 20’s for hrs better steal some bags and cover some ground on defense for 300 million. He will get it but I would be happy it wasn’t with my team.
Don’t blame Boston for backing out if that’s what they did. Not a great return But maybe that’s best they could get. But what is it. Are they cocky or stupid thinking this guy could be a starter? Just a ploy to get the other teams committed and they planned all along to ask for more?
Definitely in agreement here.
Dude Mookie was a 6 war player in a so called down year. Yes he easily worth 10/300 now 12/420 that’s a while another ball game.
I didn’t say he doesn’t have amazing value. I’m implying that his body type will not hold up for the length of his next contract. Boston fans want value for what he’s done and that isn’t a smart way to conduct business.
You and I can agree or disagree about what his value is but ultimately it’ll be up to the market. And you’re right, someone will pay him an obscene amount of money and years but I’m thankful it won’t be the Angels. I believe as the trade stands today, it’s a fair deal for all parties.
Halofanatic there is no way Boston pays 75% of Prices contract. I do believe that the Angles should be players at 50% which is what the Dodgers were getting Price for.
You’re 100% right but that’s the numbers I’d begin with if I worked in the Angels front office.
The Dodgers are only paying 50% because they’re also getting Betts. Without Betts, that percentage of money paid goes way up for the Red Sox.
Unless The prospect arm has completely fallen of, ive been preaching since day one that I felt that the twins weren’t getting the raw end of this deal over all, and the Sox were still getting short changed. Dodgers need to be the ones to sweeten the deal. I understand the money aspect, but twins don’t need to sweeten the pot at all for what they are getting, period
Has anyone called Jerry DiPoto?
Seems like a natural third-team option given his willingness to deal, with Maeda offering enough control for SEA to trade again or retain for the first year or two they are again competitive.
Seattle has been loading up the farm not depleting it. Bad fit.
Funny how boston finds Graterol “so objectionable” yet there is absolutely no talk on their end of taking him out of the deal! If we were playing poker this hand would be an easy bluff to call!
How about Price ALSO goes to the Twins along with Maeda.. Dodgers pay 2/3 of their half of his salary. Twins get ANOTHER starter for cheap and are more motivated to give up a better or additional prospect to the Bosox?
Dodgers want Price. He’s an ideal candidate to move to Dodger Stadium, and fits right in with their usual targets. If they dont get Price then they can’t really trade the two swingmen they have in this deal (Maeda and Stripling)
Finding someone to give up something of value for Maeda is the only thing needed. Boston is likely lighting up phones trying to do so as we speak. If they can, it’s done.
Hahaha
Why are some organizations and agents furious over the delay of a deal? Nothing has been confirmed or finalized… seems like as usual its leaked to the media early. Back in the day u wouldnt hear anything until it was an actual done deal.
My guess is these organizations feel as though (for different reasons) they were in position to receive a highly beneficial trade at a relately discounted cost.
However, now they see their chance to get something pretty good for relatively nothing at risk of slipping away, so they’re upset.
Much of what you say MIGHT be true but I read a lot of hyperbole in your remarks. “Bustar’s” full medical history was not readily available to the Red Sox FO until after the deal was agreed upon. Second, I don’t think the media or we internet posters are scaring the FO or the Red Sox ownership one bit. Never have never will. These are successful business people who do their due diligence (as far as they can take it). Third, the Red Sox deserve more, having given LA Price’s services for three years at $16M per season plus first crack at Mookie to re-sign with them for 2021 and beyond. Bustar, optimally, is a “project” who has the tools if he doesn’t break down. I will wager a cold beer that Chiam didn’t know Bustar had ballooned up to 260# since 2018. A 21-year old who stands 6″ 1″ should not weigh more than 220# tops…. so Bustar has to drop 40 # to be in his best playing shape. I don’t really know who owes the Red Sox but they are entitled IMHO to another player, preferably a near major league ready starter. Either Jordan (not the river) Balazovic or LA’s Edwin Uceta, should go to Boston, perhaps both.
If Bloom didn’t know Graterol gained a lot of weight years ago then that’s on him. There are pictures of him online and he was pitching for the Twins for part of last year. Simple google search fixes that problem, though I’m guessing height and weight is probably something the scouts are already advising on when they are considering a player to trade for.
Also the Twins shouldn’t be owing the Red Sox two top prospects when they aren’t the ones getting Mookie and Price. Yes, Graterol is the one who has the issue, but the Sox are giving absolutely nothing to the Twins.
The Twins got roped into this, obviously willingly, because the Sox and Dodgers couldn’t agree on prospects.
Here’s the thing: however it happened, this is where we are. I don’t care about the numbers, make them whatever you want.
Boston was providing parts and cash that added up to 100%/100 points of value. In exchange, they had 100%/100 points coming back.
Now LA was tasked with providing some fraction of value – and make it whatever you want. 70. 60. 80. Whatever.
The PROBLEM is that in the framework, MIN agreed to provide 30. 40. 20. Whatever percent of the value coming back. I’d argue at least 40% based on the purported importance of graterol in the original trade.
Once Boston reviewed medicals, they said that instead of MIN meeting it’s 30, 40, 20, whatever percent/points in value they were supposed to, graterol’s ACTUAL value based on correction for … something in the medical review… was less.
However you say it, MIN was tasked to provide a certain value, a certain fractional portion of the return, and the inspected worth is somehow less. We DON’T KNOW what boston THINKS/SAYS it found.
I’m inclined to say they were able show they uncovered SOMETHING. Why? boston made an “ask” of what it thought would balance the ledger of what was supposed to come from the twins, and, reportedly MIN DID offer SOMETHING (we don’t know what) based on what boston showed them, but it was less than Boston asked.
I agree that Graterol’s value takes a hit and the Sox want the difference. I don’t agree with how that goes even if it’s accurate. It doesn’t make sense to me for the Twins to pay more than what the Dodgers are and the Twins aren’t getting Mookie. Maeda shouldn’t cost twice as much as Mookie. Eat all the contract you want, in every way Mookie is way better than Maeda, even if it is only one year. To me it just seems insane even if it is the way that it is supposed to go. So far, I applaud the Twins for not giving in.
If the Twins have to add something then they have to add something but it should not be anything large. The rumor is that the Sox want Graterol and another top 10 prospect as well.
Let’s just go with Fangraphs for values because they have an easy grading system to go by. Graterol is listed as a 50 in their future value rankings. The Twins have one prospect in that top 10 range that is listed at 40 plus. The other guys are all listed at 45 or better. If the Sox are getting getting a 45 to 50 level prospect and Graterol who is a 50, it means Graterol’s value plummeted from 100 percent to nearly zero. The extra guy nearly makes up Graterol’s entire value AND they still get Graterol?! He would become a throw in and he definitely is not a throw in. Even if all he ever is is a reliever, which I have believed for years, he still has two really good pitches and a chance at being a great reliever.
And maybe the rumor is way off, but if it isn’t then that is beyond ridiculous. If the Sox want the Twins 20 to 30th best prospect along with Graterol than that’s a fair ask. A lot of those guys are 40 value on fangraphs so even that is probably an overpay but I think most Twins would be fine with that. Someone like Enlow or Smeltzer if they want a SP.
I will say that I don’t think the trade is set up where there IS a fair resolution. Either someone needs to move off their “untouchable prospects” and swap out pieces, or its doomed to fail.
I think the dodgers are under paying for mookie in general. I also think they’re asking MIN to overpay for maeda. Numbers are easier to look at, so I’ll use arbitrary (not fangraphs) numbers, but still proportional ones.
Mookie+price+48m should be worth 125.
This deal as a whole only pays 105.
Verdugo is worth 55, and maeda should be worth 30, BUT, LAD told MIN if they want him they need to cover the balance (50). After placing certain guys off limits, graterol without hidden issues was worth maybe 45. Chaim said close enough since he wanted what he thought was an immediately capable mlb-ready SP. After whatever they found, or THINK they found, they claimed graterol was only worth 15. So, they picked someone who is 40 to make up the difference – in chaim’s mind, if he was being asked to take the slight underpay, again, it’s with that 5 +/- of what LAD foisted on MIN to cover so what’s the big deal about being 5 over? It’s how the world works sometimes.
So, Boston says we were already selling low. We’re not getting short changed any further.
The twins say we already offered a bit of an overpay for just maeda, we don’t want to go much higher, but, our rotation is ROUGH. We NEED someone, and the FA market is cooked. We’ll make up what we feel is the difference on gratenol, but only to the limit of our original overpay.
LAD sits back and says, hey, we had a sweet deal, we’re not kicking in extra. Sort it out yourselves.
Boston looks and says, hey, we had 3 must haves – get under cbt; get a young, controllable, talented mlb-ready OF; and, get a young, controllable, talented, mlb-ready SP. We’re not there anymore.
Your arbitrary numbers are definitely weighted om Bostons favor look at War and Salaries (actual and fair procestions) over the term of each player and the than as is is more then fair even with Graterol as a RP,
1 yr Betts @ 7 War $27 million vs 5 Yr Verdugo 3.2War x 5 yrs = 16 War and likely make between $27-30 Million in that time, Actually because LA paying Dodgers in current 202 dollars and Sox paying in future $$ the Sox are paying less and coming out way ahead in War. The 2 pitchers War and Salary will balance things out some but Boston still comes out ahead overall
sorry for the typos- too early but the gist of my meaning should get thru.
Long winded….. yawn
Angels get Meada, Joc and some prospect from Boston
Boston gets Alex Verdugo and Stripling Dodgers prospect
Dodgers gets Betts, Price and Rengifo
Tony Clark I can understand his frustration, Boras I get it, the Angels owner….. LOLZZZZ!!! Dude has turned his organization into a joke. Take your circus mind and continue to run your clown car organization into the ground.
I wonder if the Jays could jump in and get Maeda. That would really solidify the rotation and provide plenty of depth when the inevitable injuries and underachievers surface as the year goes on.
I’d imagine the AL East rivalry would make the idea obsolete with any deal including Boston. But perhaps LA could flip a return for Maeda to the Red Sox for Betts. Or, for whatever else they may try to do this offseason.
Jays give up Kay (4) and any 1 guy in the MLB 13-16 rank for Maeda. Hell, they could throw in Alford to offset any loss of Verdugo because he’s clearly in play too.
Get her done!!! MAEDA TO CANADA!!!!!
As a Jays fan NOOOOOOOOOO
Maeda is 32 and had an ERA over 4 in the NL
I don’t understand why the Red Sox don’t just Maeda back in the deal – they need a starter and he’s signed cheap, and he can also work out of the pen if needed. Getting half of Price’s salary off the books is the priority here. Mookie is gone after 2020 and Verdugo is a terrific option to replace him on the cheap.
Maeda has a performance based contract with a lot of incentives based largely on starts and innings pitched. As a reliever/spot starter Maeda can be incredibly affordable. As a starter, making more than 32 starts and pitching more than 180 innings Maeda’s salary would be over 12 million per year and that number could increase with more innings pitched.
Realistically maeda has a floor of about 5m/yr is used from the pen in short outings. He tops out around 14m/year if he hits every incentive, being 32+ games started and 200+ innings pitched.
If you pay 16m down on price, and 14m to use maeda, you only pay 2m less than just using price. At that point, price has better stuff and upside – IF you think you can keep price healthy all year.
With nearly no salary savings, might as well just keep price, and sell mookie on his own for a better return. Then either trade JBJ, or, release him as his salary isn’t guaranteed and just pay a couple million I stead of 11… saves you $8-9m, or, about 6m less than dealing price. But, dumping Mookie/JBJ should get you under the tax, it’d be close. You probably need to sign holt and platoon holt/jdm in the OF unless chavis shows a corner OF aptitude in ST. Then dalbec has to be ready to help dh/1b.
However, at that point trading mookie is pure salary dump without even the cover of being able to say he was the cost to free up price’s salary. Trade optics crash even worse than the current debacle.
Great points, but Verdugo–if he really is a 3+ win player and you have him for 5 years–is a fine return for Betts. If you can move Price as well in return for a strong pitching prospect (or the equivalent) and get out from under $48m, I’d call that a very respectable return, or about as much as you can possibly expect to get, though I suppose dealing away a decent starter like Price, with upside, and paying $48m for the privilege, is distressing.
The Twins have another right handed pitching prospect, Balazovic, who is similarly ranked and the same age as Graterol. Why don’t they just offer him instead?
I’d expect one of two reasons:
Option 1) because the twins value graterol less, and, were trying to make a value play sending out the lesser asset.
Option 2) because the red sox are looking for a mlb ready starter to slot into the rotation, and balazovic hasn’t pitched above A ball yet, and thats a long way off with plenty of uncertainty.
Could be either, but might be more of problem #2. I’d expect Boston wouldn’t be happy with just balazovic.
Balazovic is a dude. But honestly Johan Duran is probably the best prospect the Twins have on the pitching side. Boston sux.
Balazovic and Duran are both projected as starters. Graterol is a reliever who’s ceiling is a starter if he’s able to stay healthy and develop a decent third pitch. Graterol is easily the third best one of the three in my opinion, but prospect rankings always said otherwise because if Graterol did develop that third pitch he’d be awesome. Will that ever happen though…most guys don’t.
Balazovic has already been declared off limits, at least in this trade. Hopefully in all trades, unless it’s for an ace. Balazovic is putting up similar numbers as what Berrios did in the minors except he’s a year older. That doesn’t guarantee anything, but he’s a stud and I am a big fan.
Will Brusdar go in the Hall in a Twins cap or Red Sox cap…this is the question we should be focusing on.
This should still be workable.
“MLB Network’s Jon Heyman suggests that the Twins have expressed a willingness to include one of their top-20 prospects to push the deal across the goal line, but even that hasn’t met the Red Sox’ heightened asking price.”
—If the Dodgers are eager to get this done, additionally chipping in their #15 prospect should be around the right price. The Twins do likewise and it gets done. Assuming the Red Sox would take something like the #15 prospect from both the Twins and LAD on top of Graderol, surely it doesn’t get hung up. Do they want LAD’s #9 or 10 prospect? Then fine–LAD takes the Twins #15 and ships their #10 to Boston.
If the deal is that important to them, and we’re not talking about anything like a premium prospect, how do you let this get in the way? I think the Dodgers are giving up too much already (they must not have a high opinion of Verdugo’s prospects, given he was a 3 win player and has 5 years of control left), but they think it’s about right, so keep it moving.
My take Jack……its all Bs with Graterol…….they read the news after the “agreement” and slithered out of it like a snake-
My God we can all only hope and Pray Verdugo and Graterol become All- Stars year in year out during the 2020’s and have amazing careers
Dodgers could put Busch or Ruiz in and that should be enough to put it over the top.
This nonsense around the Maeda contract is silly. No team will allow him to meet his goals if he has a 5+ ERA and can’t keep the ball down. So his price is fixed. If he pitches well and earns his keep then 16 sheets isn’t a bad price at all for 32 starts and 200 IP of solid production. The Twins were smart to jump in on this deal and try to snag him.
He’s been bad against the AL (4.5 ERA despite half those games in LA and all but 3 against sub-500 clubs) and on the road (an ERA of 4.9 when starting on the road the last 3 years)
He’s 32 so likely getting worse, and is guaranteed at minimum 13 million over a 4 year span with many easily obtainable incentives that will push it much higher (they have resulted in the Dodgers paying him about 7 a season despite trying not to use him often)
Trading a top-100 pitching prospect for that type of return is not smart, it’s a massive gamble that is unlikely to pay off. He does put up ERAs upwards of 5 in the AL while they end up paying even 5-7 million a year on top of the prospect value, then all of a sudden it was a disaster for the club. That outcome is probably the most likely one to happen though
Truth is, if Maeda was that desirable of s commodity we wouldn’t be in the boat we are today – the Red Sox would have walked away from the Twins and instead dealt him to another club. Instead they have been trying to figure out a way to force it to work with the Twins specifically, and that indicates other options to unload him are not that easy to come by.
Check the sample size of your arguments. How much has he really pitched against the AL and more specifically the AL East? And the TEAM controls the incentive payouts. If hes trash they will never let him hit his marks. Come on now!
Yea and then theres the chance of Graterol posting a 5 era as well as a Rp-
You guys love your prospects around here boy
Twins are playing for the Now, I know thats a weird thing in todays day and age but its the reality and its a damn refreshing imo
The problem with getting the Twins and/or Dodgers to add players to the package is the Red Sox most likely want Major League ready or near ready players. Random prospects that may be a few years away are not likely to get a deal done.
This deal just has too many moving parts on the Dodgers end. They are literally trying to make three trades at the same time and things are just not lining up properly.
Dodgers are only making two rather simple trades with single partners, both of which have no problems anywhere.
Those trades are Verdugo+Maeda for Betts+Price and then the seperate Angels deal that would follow
The holdup is solely that the Red Sox need to unload Maeda, and cant seem to do so
Except the seperate Angel deal is being held up by the Dodgers/Red Sox/Twins trade. Hence they are trying to make three trades at once.
They literally just traded Maeda Stripling and to a lesser extent Joc-
The Dodgers have everything-……….. the now, the soon, the future-
As much as I want too see Mookie in Chavez this year I hope they hold strong even if that means biting the bullet and doing No trades-
Boston should suffer, just a horrible look for them after just getting caught cheating…..ugh……. may we just hope Karma is a real thing
This trade isn’t going to happen. This will be the talk all spring training.
I think Boston is being dumb in this trade and going to end up empty handed with a giant bill at the end of it. LA still has a playoff caliber team with an overstocked outfield, a farm for days and a rotation to last a decade. Boston is letting their fans control their fate of the team and it’s going to cost them another season and possibly more. Take the contract dump like they did with Gonzales and Crawford.
Which we could post emojis I’d post the laughing emoji.
That would probably be better for you than trying to speak the English language properly.
Try this one out:
BOS: Gets larnach, duran & jax from MIN; myers, quantrill, edwards, & either head/mena from SD.
MIN: Gets price + 39m from BOS; Gets Luchessi from SD
SD: Gets betts, Bradley jr +2.5m & dalbec from BOS
Besides being way down the road from that, Boston doesn’t want that money coming in for even 5 minutes, let alone what it’d take to off-load Myers.
Not that I’d want him as a Padre fan since it makes little sense to acquire him, but Boston dumps a ton of salary I. This trade deal as Myers, while not worth his contract, has less financial obligations going forward than Price and Betts combined. Which this person’s proposal eliminates for Boston.
Go Cubs
it’s tough making $30M and having to wait to know where l have to go to get it. its utterly inhumane to be treated like a commodity. guess I’ll have to quit as it’s so stressful on me.
Red Sox… GET IT DONE. The deal as-is is okay. Just ask for another prospect from the Twins and call it a day.
Speculative and non-info tweet by Heyman is all it takes to bump this thread?
These FO’s are as leaky as a FBI investigation
Yes, baseball has a leak problem.
Depends
SELECTIVE leak problem. Fixed it.
Swap out Graterol with Enlow and try to get the Dodgers to send Gonsolin. Seems more than fair to me.
Anyone who watches baseball knows that kid is going to b a high leverage situation reliever only. He’s had arm problems his whole career. This is 100% on Boston reacting to the fans that didn’t like the trade. I say if Boston is so unhappy about the trade. Switch the Angels in for the Twins. C if they would take Maeda since they need starters and have them send another prospect or Redifo to the Sox to complete it. What about Brandon Marsh to the Sox from the Angels and the Angels get Maeda. Marsh is like 2-3 spots higher on the Top 100 prospect list the Gruender from the Twins. And the Angels get the starter they really badly need.
Karma comes to Boston!! while Boston was trying to keep up with the Yankees Minnesota was building a top 15 farm system. Remember that Dyson came to the Twins last year and had arm problems from day one,.
Is there no team willing to trade just for Price? Hard to believe over 10 spots in a draft and 12-15 million extra is worth losing Betts over for 1 more year. And just give the guy 8/275 and b done with it…
He doesn’t want 8/275. He wants to test the market why is this so hard for ssome to understand?
No he wants 12/420, same aav. Just saying if he leaves unless they overpay he will not be back in Boston no matter what he says..
Graterol for Maeda is already close to an overpay. It is a fair swap. Graterol has a chance to be an ace or a lights out closer. The Twins should not give up more for Maeda. Maeda is solid, but nothing better than a high floor and mod rotation arm. It’s a fair swap for a high floor known commodity for an extremely high ceiling prospect with electric stuff. As a Twins fan I think they should not offer another top ten prospect at all. It’s a fair deal as is.
Can’t we just dump Price and keep Betts?
Who would want Price by himself?
The longer this hang up goes on the less chance the trade will ever be completed.
If Maeda is no longer a viable option, I wonder if the Twins would have interest in C-Mart?? Has the potential to be significantly better than Maeda for right around the same price.
Who the f is C-Mart?
Carlos Martinez
What happened to cool nicknames like the Say Hey Kid and The Yankee Clipper? Today they’d be Dub-Mays and J-Dim, I guess. Besides, doesn’t he pitch for the Cardinals?
AngerBot says get off my lawn!
AngerBot can eat my shorts! 🙂
Will these shorts you mention fuel my Anger?
This is a pretty messed up thing to do for the players involved. They need to rent a house for a month for spring training and they don’t even know if they will be in Florida or Arizona.
Meanwhile, you can shade them with palm leaves and drop grapes in their mouths?
LMAO. Yeah, the poor babies have to rent a luxury condo for a month. Whatever will the poor babies do to overcome such a tremendous burden?
i dont think the deal is even that bad for the sox. if they want to save a bunch of money, and dont think they can contend this year, getting a cost-controlled starting caliber OF and a top 50 prospect is better than a lot of small market teams get in trades. Dodgers would be getting a steal because Price, while overpaid, is still a good pitcher. but red sox return isnt that bad when you consider the money. the issue is that fan base and organization hasn’t had to make many decisions based on money in recent years, so of course they’re upset.
Sending Graterol to a borderline wildcard team like Boston is one thing, sending him to a legitimate WS contender is another…
You see I’m fine with aquiring Maeda, but if we’re going to part with any ML pieces it definitely shouldn’t be someone who could be a play a game changing role in the postseason for Twins.
The goal for Twins FO should be to aquire Maeda all while retaining Graterol, which shouldn’t be too difficult since the Twins would have leverage over the Dodger’s luxury tax threshold situation.
The Dodgers wouldn’t give up more or accept less based on the luxury tax situation, we got under it last season so the penalty reset and would be the lowest percentage as far as I understand how it works…could be wrong though
I hope Dodgers get Graterol, he would be a nice addition to the bullpen. Then we can turn around and slang another prospect or 2 to the Sox. Maybe even Gonsolin and a lower tier arm
If Dodgers we’re willing make an offer like that from the start the Twins would’ve never had to get involved…
Dodgers keep Graterol and send Ferguson.
In a dream world maybe, but I seriously doubt that the Red Sox value Ferguson as highly as they did a healthy Graterol..
Maybe Ferguson in conjunction with Busch or Downs and/or Ruiz.
Well that is the missing piece of this rumor. If the Dodgers end up with Graterol, who do they send to Boston to compensate? Seems they are gunning for major league ready talent so that shortens the list considerably.
How about Kolarek?
I’d like to hold on to Kolarek, southpaw arms are getting more scarce…we still have too many SP so if they want Gonsolin I’d say let’s send him…I like Gray’s potential but if that’s what it’s going to take then just send him…if we can get Graterol for the bullpen I’d be satisfied with our SP depth and adding a much needed back of the pen guy
The looming issue with Kolarek is the three-batter rule. His splits against RHBs are pretty awful. Big question of whether the game has room for lefty specialists anymore. I don’t know a lot about Graterol but from what I do know I’d rather have Gonsolin.
I wonder who wants this deal more, the teams, the fans or the writers?
Most of us just want it be over already.
yes
So they’re putting the whole blame on the Red Sox for not getting this trade done
Exactly where the blame belongs. Not with a healthy 21-year-old flamethrower.
So Boston has now alienated Mookie Betts, David Price, Alex Verdugo, Kenta Maeda (he must be livid), the Union, tangentially Joc Pederson, Ross Stripling, and any player who thought the Red Sox were a professional organization.
I home the Twins keep Graterol. 100+mph chin music would be fun to watch.
AngerBot Angry! And filled with Schadenfreude!
Also very poor grasp on what happened. This was just the case of a premature announcement. You would have all the rights in the world if all the teams had called the players and told them they were traded, they didn’t do that by the way because the trade wasn’t finalized. Bloom is just listening to his medical doctors that review the medicals and physicals that these players have to do to complete a trade. They found something in the medicals they don’t like. The Red Sox have been burned under DD on quickly completing trades that obviously not going to happen under Bloom. It’s very simple this is not any of the teams fault that are involved it was just a premature announcement of a trade simple as that.
No, not premature. All trades are announced pending medicals. It’s rare when the medicals bust a trade, but let’s not try to pretend that it hasn’t happened before.
Red Sox have an issue with the health of the pitcher who made 10 appearances in September but not the OF who hasn’t touched a bat since the first week of August. They agreed to the trade and backed out when they realized they scouted Graterol incorrectly. If the Sox had not initially agreed there would have been nothing to announce.
Boston and Minnesota have been spring training neighbors in Ft Myers for years. They know each other’s teams well. Boston shoved, Minnie shoved back harder. There is no truth to “Boston didn’t know”. And apparently they are the only team who has any issue with the medical info. LAD looks like they want him now.
1000 comments countdown, let’s go.
Let’s GOOOOOOOOOOO
Red Sox dragging their seemingly cold feet, and even if leaking Graterol’s medical status was a dirty negotiation tacticthey were aware of his “limitations.” RS shameful.
Send Friedman to the Sox!
No thanks.
Sox don’t deserve him. Actually Luhnow would be a better fit if he was available.
Not even a Boston fan but this is the difference between Blüm and Dabrowski. If this was Dabrowski this trade would have been completed when we first got the news about the trade being done. Everyone needs to remember bloom came from Tampa Bay where they are all about cutting money but at the same time getting deals the only benefit them. So basically what they are saying is we want premium prospects but we only want to pay half the price is contract. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Something else that would have never happened during the time Dabrowski was the president it is obvious they are weighing a lot on the backlash from Boston fans but they need to remember Boston fans are going to go nuts no matter what because they are not keeping Mookie regardless and that is what they are pissed about.
This is all on the LAD. Only the LAD were invovled with all parts of the leaked info. The RS would have no info about the Angels part of the trade. The LAD tried to dump Maeta and satisfy RS by substituting Graterol for the LAD prospects the RS wanted. When that didn’t work they continued to leak info to try and force the issue. Heyman & other writers were willing dupes for this LAD BS because they wanted a scoop.
No RS had all the medicals. They changed the mind in midstream.
yeah, right!
Common practice to have the medicals exchanged, They had their own medical personnel look at them, agreed to the trade then pulled back. If you can read check out some of the ESPN articles that substantiate this.
yeah, right! espn? lmao!
Yes ESPN is a joke. The trade isn’t finalized until the teams call the players and tell them they are traded this trade was not finalized period end of story.
The LAD were the only team that had ALL the leaked info.. ESPN got scooped by Rosenthal & Heyman so they jumped in with more wrong info to seem relevant. It’s about time the media admits they were duped by LAD propaganda and they never should have called the deal done when at least medical reviews were pending, if not also, $$$ issues and prospects.
Where is the evidence of this?
As I said, feel free to look at a few of the ESPN articles. Do your own research before trying to develop an opinion.
This is not on the Dodgers…the Red Sox got some backlash about sending Betts off and not getting a young SP like everyone thought so they asked for more…they should’ve done their homework in the beginning and realized what just about everyone realized, Graterol has a very good chance of ending up in the bullpen if he can’t hang as a SP
Their homework was reviewing the medicals. From thinking their possibly getting the next Nolan Ryan to realizing he could be another Joe Kelly could explain everything.
Really, how would the RS have known about the Angel part of the trade. Only the LAD could have leaked ALL of this BS.
Who cares who leaked it? Doesn’t change the fact that the trade is failing due to the Sox’ poor due diligence/incorrect scouting on Graterol.
Or because of their excellent price due diligence. Depends on how you spin it Math. They saw upside in Graterol as a starter but could only confirm otherwise after seeing the records. Just another possible explanation. All guesswork. Maybe it’s time for MLBTR to close this thread for comments…
due to the Sox’ poor due diligence
————————————
For the 100th time, the RS do not have access to all of Graterol’s medical reports until AFTER they agree to a trade. What part of that do you not understand?
It’s a Bloomin’ Onion!
And yet now the Twins want more for Gaterol. Neither the Twins or Red Sox look very good right now.
For the one hundredth time:
“non-Boston docs seem to have no big issue with Graterol [medicals],”
The Red Sox look like garbage right now. I guess cheating wasn’t enough for them, they want to discredit every part of their organization.
For the first time in my life I’m rooting for the Yankees to kick Boston’s butt.
The Dodgers are pretty good about issuing statements about things they’re not supposed to issue statements on. It is true that we probably never should have heard about the trade with the Angels concurrently with the trades with the Twins and the Red Sox. Everyone knows those trades are being made to salary dump to make room for Betts and Price.
“As Heyman notes, “non-Boston docs seem to have no big issue with Graterol [medicals],” so the Dodgers might be satisfied in accepting the young righty in exchange for Maeda.”
This is where you know Heyman is lying. There are no non-MN and non-RS doctors that have seen Gaterol’s medicals. Teams don’t give them out. Other doctors don’t go into the Minny medical office to ask for a peek at Gaterol’s medicals.
I’d love to hear Heyman tell us which dontors have even seen Gaterol’s medicals.
The Dodgers may have gotten his medicals because technically he was traded to the Dodgers first then Dodgers to Red Sox so Dodgers probably got the medicals as well.
More to the point his agent (Boras) made these comments yesterday. He could easily have access to Graterol’s medicals. And Heyman has great contacts with the Boras Org (some might call hi their shill?).
And with one of the latest rumors suggesting LA is adding to the deal with MN for Graterol (again, a rumor) there may be some sources with their own biases at play here.. But if that’s how it goes down that will certainly make the Sox look bad.
Kick the Twins out of the trade and put Maeda and a min-level pitching prospect into the trade. If Betts would go for a sign and trade, we could sweeten the deal more.
1000 comments and half are utter nonsense such as this comment.
The only comment I’ve seen today that made sense
TThe part about Betts possibly foregoing free agency when he’s already set his “Buy it Now” price at 12 yrs and $420MM doesn’t make any sense right now.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the trade involves a 4th team (Angels or Rays or Padres) and more and different players.
Get it done!!
Why don’t we just involve all 30 teams except The Astros. All they have is trash cans
Why don’t we just involve all 30 teams except The Astros. All they have is trash cans
Smooth move by Red Sox. Complain about something after you’ve made a deal, get more. Having a hard time understanding why everyone feels like they have to “satisfy” the Red Sox, but give Bloom credit if it works out. Now, it’s just a question of how much is too much. Particularly for the Dodgers, without which (their money) this couldn’t happen.
For all we know, Graterol might a no-go. From Rosenthal’s latest self-made rumor, MN & LA are discussing Graterol+ for Maeda. It use to be the MN side was just Graterol for Maeda. That alone makes me suspicious that LA knows something about Graterol.
If he is everything that the MN fans say he is, why is he not on LA right now? It could be a few reasons, but sketchy medicals is one of them.
When Maeda signed with the Dodgers his medicals were a red flag too. That’s why the contract was structured the way it was, but since then he’s gone four seasons without a significant health issue. Medicine isn’t a perfect science, and doctors can often come to different conclusions based on the same data. That seems to be exactly what’s happened with Graterol.
Yep BlueSkies, I was thinking about just this last night.
Seems many of the posters here have never had a diagnosis where they asked for or got a second opinion.
Really, how would the RS have known about the Angel part of the trade. Only the LAD could have leaked ALL of this BS.
The problem with this entire thread is that you folks have unrealistic ideas about player values. There is a good site called Baseball Trade Values that will bring some of you back to earth. I have no association with the site.
Now, to get this deal done, all the Dodgers need to do is send Josiah Gray to the Red Sox. They can trade Maeda to some other team for some other prospect to replace Gray in their system. Trade value for Graterol. Maeda and Gray is about equal. Graterol is injured. The Red Sox don’t want him. This isn’t really that complicated.
Graterol is not injured. His medicals may say a big injury is coming based on such and such reason on this scan or that scan, but he is not currently injured.
He threw a 12 minute bullpen yesterday and it went fine. If he was injured he would be incapable of doing that.
Simple. Sox made the deal envisioning a potential stud starter. Whatever the meds showed, it brought them back to earth and do not want a reliever with a history of injuries.
Sure, but Graterol being a reliever should come as no surprise. I am of the belief that a guy with only two good pitches is a reliever until proven otherwise. I think others should take that approach as well but everyone loves to dream on a players upside/ceiling. Many more guys fail at adding that third pitch than the amount who succeed.
I dream about Balazovic being the next Berrios for the Twins…at least there’s never been a question about him being a starter, but he may never end up the stud I hope he’ll be so I’m not immune to thinking big on a prospect.
Graterol’s ceiling was/is of a stud starter, but that is if everything goes right. Every report ever written about Graterol has either said a likely outcome of a reliever or has at least questioned his ability of being a starter without mentioning “likely outcome” specifically. And this includes before he ever had a health issue, before TJ years ago. They were saying reliever back then too. He still has to successfully add a good third pitch and be healthy. Most players fail to reach their ceiling.
Graterol is injured. That’s why the Red Sox don’t want him.
Is overweight considered an injury now?
No but it is aesthetically unappealing.
BTW, Graterol pitched 70 innings last year between the majors and minors, about half of them in relief.
Yet now the Twins want more for Graterol than yesterday. Did you miss this?
“non-Boston docs seem to have no big issue with Graterol [medicals],”
The Red Sox have lost all credibility and if the Twins want more, they have lost all credibility.
It’s an injury issue not a value issue. Gray won minor league pitcher of the year … I seriously doubt Friedman does something that dumb.
You don’t comprehend player values. Graterol and Gray are of about equal value except Graterol is injured. This trade will get done. Graterol is not unique. There are plenty of players out there who are of similar value. Gray, Maeda and Balazovic to name three..
While we don’t know what boston’s doctors CLAIM to have said, MIN has offered prospect(s) low in the system so – where there’s smoke,..
Meanwhile, speculation only.
Remember Mike Napoli? Outwardly fully healthy and productive. Inside he has a serious condition that could have major impacts on his leg/hip that didn’t just affect baseball, it could drastically alter life.
You never know what a MRI/CT could say.
Boston could be pausing of a similar iasue where maybe another team adds the distance, likelihood of issue, and even likelihood prospect shows much cucce $m6
This trade is bipolar. Every hour the trade is either off or back on or almost done or never ever going to happen or maybe.
Also, Lavelle is about as unreliable a beat reporter there is in any sport so take that with a grain of salt.
i dont see any scenario where Graterol ends up in LA
Graterol plus a guy outside the top 10 for Maeda and another guy is now the new rumor/report. If true, at least the Dodgers are being more reasonable. Fewer guys I’m worried about losing who are outside the top 10, though plenty of them could rise fast if they have a good year in 2020.
Don’t have a problem with the Sox having issue with medicals. Don’t have a problem with the Sox asking for more in general for Mookie specifically. Do have a problem trying to get two top 10 prospects out of a team who isn’t even getting Mookie.
Makes no sense. If Graterol’s health was the issue why would the Dodgers kick in more? And seems like the Dodgers’ interest in Graterol was to flip him.
Because Graterol is not worth zero even with a health issue? He pitched at the end of 2019 and is still able to pitch today.
I’m sure what the Dodgers are potentially kicking in is barely anything so I don’t think it’s that big of a deal.
Expect this to hit a few more snags before finally going through.
Why would twins be giving up even more now for Maeda. They are aware of his incentives if hes a starter right?
The update says the Twins will get a little more not give a little more.
If Graterol wasn’t enough in this trade, because of his injuries, then how is he now worth more?
Boston Red Sox evaluation:
They come off as having to get under the tax. Seems as Dodgers are only team they found that can make this happen. Now did the truly think this prospect was a starter and then seen the medicals. Or did they have buyers remorse. Or option 3 it was a negotiating tactic, they got other teams excited then asked for more.
Minnesota Twins:
If they thought they needed another starter they sure did pass on a lot of free agents. But then a trade opportunity arises to get a #3 starter with years of control on a nice contract and all they have to do is trade a prospect with a injury history who they project as nothing but a reliever. I do that trade all day long. But now to get that pitcher I have to give up a good prospect I actually like no thank you, good luck Boston.
LA Dodgers:
So we upgrade Maeda or at least have similar talent with chance at upside on Price at half price actually good contract which isn’t a ton more than Maeda after he hits incentives. And we aquire Mookie and part with a player who has years of control and is a good player but has yet to show any elite hr power. What is better to have multiple years of good or 1 year of greatness? And they probably have a better outfield prospect(s) on his way up. So LA gets 2 big name guys and doesn’t give up a top prospect. If trade falls through Boston takes all the blame and their fan base sees the team tried to aquire elite talent and forget about their lack of activity in free agency.
Seems Boston is the only one that comes out a loser if this trade falls through.
It is not a negotiating tactic. Jesus get a clue
Why capitulate? F****** Boston and their manufactured payroll “crisis”. Find another team and another player that puts you over the hump LA.
All this hold up for a 20 year old pitcher whose ERA is close to 5. How difficult can it be to find a kid with similar stats and flip him to the Red Sox.
Dperez1 you obviously have no clue. It has nothing to do with finding a pitcher with similar stats at this point in his career.
It is about finding a similar talented pitcher with his upside and projection.
Get it now?
wordonthestreet – You have no clue. There are DOZENS of pitchers with similar potential to Graterol. Josiah Gray, Gosonol and Balazovic to name three. There are many others.
Dozens out of how many pitchers? Triple digit heaters that move with sliders in the high 80’s is actually a pretty rare skillset.
Wrongway you have no clue. The original commentor said to just find anyone with a 5 plus era. Get it now moron?
I said it is not about that but about finding similar talent. I never said you cannot find good prospects. The point is you need to replace the talent not just someone or anyone with a 5 era
I think you misunderstand. My point is that you are just a nasty a–hole. F off!
You’re clueless. After the Cleveland game, he was almost unhittable the remainder of the season, as well as allowing -0- runs in the playoffs.
I’m trying to imagine the whole thing falling apart (which some pundits would have us believe), and all players in both trades staying with their teams of origin and entering the 2020 season like none of this ever happened. As a player I guess you play the hand you’re dealt, but this fiasco should have all of them reevaluating the relationship with their current team. Definitely not optimal for any party involved.
Bellinger and Buehler are going to have to replace Verdugo and Graterol to get this thing done.
LOL, what a joke
Boston would say no, its not enough for Mookie Christ.
Sox will end up with Gonsolin.
Is this trade still holding up the Joc Pederson trade?
Obviously.
Would assume so because the Dodgers still need to get Betts/Price before they would do the Angels trade.
Maybe the angels can swoop in for Price instead
ANY trade that has Graterol leaving is a foolish trade for the Twins. Unless Graterol were part of a larger package to attempt to pry deGrom from the Mets, I just can’t see parting with a pitcher with his upside. They would be subtracting him from a Twin’s bullpen where they are counting on May and Duffey to finally have turned corners despite years of inconsistency, and just prior to their FA years. Even as quality vets, Clippard and Romo do not inspire confidence in me in late/close situations against playoff caliber offenses. That leaves Taylor Rogers as the one rock in the bullpen. The Twins need an elite power arm with the equally elite composure that Graterol displays. How fast did they forget the value of dominating arms in the pen in most of the WS champions of the last decade? Yes, they need a #3 starter better than Bailey heading into the season, but with average team defense and a slightly above average starting staff, it will still come down to the ends of games that need to be protected. It’s been suggested to trade Enlow and Littell. That’s what I’d consider more than fair for Maeda. For all the controversy surrounding Graterol, he’s the prospect we’ll be talking about in the future as being the biggest ‘difference maker’. C’mon Twins… you were handed an opportunity to adjust the trade and rethink this. Here’s hoping you take advantage of it.
You make it seem like we are getting nothing back for him plus you are massively underrating a solid bullpen. Why would you be so annoyingly pessimistic for a team that improved from a 100 win season? It makes no sense!
Twins just need to move on, I’m tired of this…
Just sign Cashner and wait till the deadline, there’ll way more pitching available then.
Cashner? What? No freaking way. Maybe you need to move on!
By the time we are done with all this breathless stuff, the Dodgers will have agreed to take all of Price’s salary, thrown in multiple prospects, and given the Red Sox a stipend to help Boston soothe the psychic agony of not getting (the incredibly injured, and barely out of the ICU) Graterol.
what if the angels swooped in to get Price? and the dodgers get Betts
I read a report that said Graterol lost total use of his right arm and is currently on a feeding tube. Not sure if this affects his value or not.
We’re well into silly season with the latest speculation. Why would the Red Sox want Graterol if he was flipped by the Dodgers when they rejected him coming straight from the Twins?
I don’t think you read the article. It says graterol isn’t going to boston! You didn’t get it.
I’m sure I did, and I’m pretty sure you didn’t. To make this completely clear, from above:
“If Heyman is correct, then the last remaining hurdle will be for the Dodgers to refine their package for Betts. Speculatively, that could involve Graterol being flipped to Boston, but the Boston Globe’s Alex Speier tweeted earlier that Graterol isn’t expected to be dealt to the Red Sox as part of any trade.”
The only reason we’re still talking about this is because the Red Sox have already rejected Graterol. Washing him through the Dodgers won’t change anything.
What? Washing him through the Dodgers? What are you talking about? It says they could make a trade with minnesota where Graterol is not part of a package sent to Boston. Very consistent reporting here, I don’t know what your problem is?
The solution is reading. It really isn’t complicated, not even slightly.
Mark Feinstein on MLB.Com has stated that none of the rumors about any trades involving any of these four teams have been confirmed by any of his sources.
I just read that article and that is not what Feinstein said. He said “none of the clubs have confirmed the progress.” He goes on in the article describing the “progress” that has been made that hasnt been confirmed by the involved clubs but your statement is much more than what Feinstein said.
La Velle Neal is the same idiot that keeps saying players have said they don’t want to play in Minnesota. Sorry, I don’t trust a word that comes out of that guy’s mouth.
Whoa you obviously do not know LaVelle E Neal!! He is as solid as they come!! Outstanding reporter and guy. You should be ashamed of yourself for calling him an idiot. Farthest thing from the truth!!
If this site allowed pictures I’d definitely be posting the “not sure if serious” meme…
100% serious. Your comment was offensive!
Lol.
Wow the dodgers just got really smart if they are indeed going to keep Graterol for themselves! If they are able to swing the Betts deal AND replace Maeda with a younger cheaper high upside guy (even if its a relief role) in Graterol. Major major props to that front office! Watch some highlight videos on Graterol and tell me you wouldn’t want him on your team?!
If the Dodgers do end up with Graterol then they will have to send someone to Boston, someone with the value the Red Sox thought they were getting in Graterol. I think I am going to wait to find out who that is before hoisting any victory flags.
Well they can stand to lose a prospect if they are going to gain one as well. It would a wash to add mookie betts. Pretty good!
@ BlueSkies-LA Betts to the Dodgers is a victory flag….
No matter who they have to give up? Not buying that, sorry.
Minn trade Graterol + 1 prospect to Dodgers for Miada(SP). Dodger sends Verdugo and 2 prospects to Boston (no Graterol). Graterol will get a chance to start if he can, if not good RP TBD. Then LA Dodgers and Angel trade talks after Betts and Price to Dodgers done
Minn trade Graterol + 1 prospect to Dodgers for Maeda(SP). Dodger sends Verdugo and 2 prospects to Boston (no Graterol). Graterol will get a chance to start if he can, if not good RP TBD. Then LA Dodgers and Angel trade talks after Betts and Price to Dodgers done
@Larry48
Newsflash, it’s Maeda +1 for Graterol. Thank me later.
Stripling and Pedersen to the Angels for another utility player who will probably start in the minors? Understand that this is a salary dump but why give up Stripling too? If you’re going to dump salaried why not also dump a reliever who has been ineffective most of he is career – Pedersen and Pedro Baez to the Angels please!
OCTraveler, Because the Angels don’t want Pedersen, they are taking his salary so the Dodgers can get under the cap.
I’m sure the Angels would love to trade Pedersen for a bag of balls at the break.
LOL clueless
The Angels are only taking Pedersen’s obligation in exchange for getting a good pitcher. Not. A bag of balls or crap player.
BREAKING: The trade that will send Mookie Betts to the Los Angeles Dodgers has been agreed upon, sources tell ESPN. Outfielder Alex Verdugo and shortstop Jeter Downs are among those who will go to the Boston Red Sox.
Deal is done woot