Extension talks between the Phillies and star catcher J.T. Realmuto have been slow to progress. The 28-year-old (29 next week) lost an arbitration hearing against the Phils last month that set his 2020 salary at $10MM, although Realmuto made clear early in the arb process that he wouldn’t harbor any hard feelings regardless of the eventual hearing’s outcome.
If there’s a reason that talks have moved slowly, then, it could simply be the two-time All-Star’s asking price; MLB Network’s Jon Heyman reported on the latest edition of the Big Time Baseball podcast that Realmuto’s camp has been seeking to top Buster Posey in terms of overall guarantee, adding that Paul Goldschmidt’s extension with the Cardinals has been another talking point (audio link, with Realmuto talk beginning around the 44-minute mark).
There’s a fair bit to unpack there. Back in 2013, Posey signed an eight-year, $159MM extension that was tacked onto his existing one-year, $8MM deal with which he’d avoided arbitration. Somewhat notably, that deal was negotiated by CAA’s Jeff Berry, who also represents Realmuto. Last spring, Goldschmidt signed a five-year, $130MM contract extension, coming out to $26MM per year. A six-year deal at Goldschmidt’s annual rate would put Realmuto just shy of Posey’s guarantee. Topping Goldschmidt’s annual rate by any more than $500K over a six-year term would take Realmuto past Posey in terms of overall guarantee.
Of course, Realmuto is at a different point in his career than either Posey or Goldschmidt was upon inking those respective deals. Posey was a relatively fresh-faced 26-year-old who was fresh off a National League batting title and MVP the prior year in 2012. He’d only just reached arbitration as a Super Two player, and the extension bought out his remaining three years of arb in addition to at least five free-agent years (plus an option for a sixth). Goldschmidt was, like Realmuto, on the cusp of free agency last spring when he signed his contract. However, he was headed into his age-31 season, while Realmuto will play the upcoming campaign at 29.
Realmuto is both closer to free agency than Posey was and younger than Goldschmidt was, so there’s some parallels there. Likening him to Goldschmidt is difficult, though, given that they play different positions and possess different skill sets. Realmuto derives a good bit of value from his elite defense behind the plate, and while he’s an above-average hitter, he’s never been close to the hitter that Goldschmidt has been in his peak seasons. From 2012-18, Goldschmidt posted a combined 146 wRC+ and OPS+. Realmuto, conversely, has a career-high of 126 in both metrics and has only reached that level once (2018).
Over the past four seasons, Realmuto has batted a combined .283/.335/.464 (114 OPS+, 113 wRC+). He also ranks among the game’s premier backstops in terms of pitch-framing, caught-stealing rate and blocking pitches in the dirt. In that time, Realmuto has been worth 15.1 rWAR and 17.1 fWAR.
Historically speaking, it’s tough to find an apt comparison for Realmuto. Russell Martin (five years, $82.5MM) and Brian McCann (five years, $80MM) signed similar contracts in free agency, but both are more than a half-decade old. It’s also arguable that Realmuto is better than both were when they signed. Certainly, he’s younger than Martin was when he signed in advance of his age-32 season. But Realmuto is also decidedly older than either Posey or Joe Mauer was when signing the two largest deals ever inked by a catcher. (Mauer received an eight-year, $184MM contract from the Twins in 2010.) Realmuto seems to lie somewhere between the Martin/McCann and Mauer/Posey levels.
As MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes observed in the first installment of our 2020-21 Free Agent Power Rankings, Realmuto could very well become the first catcher to sign a $100MM+ deal in free agency if he’s unable to agree to terms on a deal. Whether he gets to that point will depend on whether he and the Phillies can find a middle ground and hammer out a new deal that’ll extend beyond his final season of club control.
Philadelphia’s comfort level in negotiations isn’t known, but a lack of progress would seem to indicate that the two sides aren’t that close at the moment. The Phils could certainly fit even a Goldschmidt-level annual value into the books long-term, though. They’re at $204MM in luxury obligations for the 2020 season but will see that number plummet to just under $119MM in 2021, when the luxury tax threshold rises to $210MM. An extension for Realmuto would largely be offset by the departure of Jake Arrieta, whose three-year, $75MM contract expires at season’s end.
T_Rexx2
Give him the money
8
Let him go and upgrade to Mathis in the offseason
bumpy93
we can’t allow JT to walk after this upcoming season. Phillies farm system is in the bottom 1/3 of the mlb, so we can’t afford to give up our #1 pitching prospect to a divisional rival for just 2yrs of service.
bbatardo
I find that amazing since they had favorable draft order for several years including #1
Deleted Userrr
Except Nola and maybe Bohm the Phillies drafted terribly in those years.
Deleted Userrr
Unless it’s at a discount signing him will make the trade look worse, not better. Because it will mean they overpaid for him twice. Once in prospects to acquire him and then once in $ to sign him.
JustCheckingIn
Is it overpaying when there isn’t really a viable alternative?
Deleted Userrr
@Commonsenseslapsyou if no one else offers Realmuto more $ than Philly, then yes.
JustCheckingIn
You’d have to be quite naive to assume no one wants to pay realmuto some big money
The reason there aren’t mega catcher contracts from free agents is the best ones don’t make it there in their prime. He will comfortably pass the 100M mark unless there’s a major injury from now till then
Deleted Userrr
Umm. I never said differently…
JustCheckingIn
So if it’s market value, again is it overpaying? Clearly not.
Whether you agree with the terms or not, if he’d have a market At the likely rate (and he would bar injury), your original comment about the double loss of the trade is…. out there
Lovinmlb
If no season this year then just 1 season of his services. I don’t like paying huge money to a 30 year old. Especially a catcher. I think the 4 contracts mentioned in the article are a good reason not to cave into his demands.
But this is the team that gave Arieta 75 million and didn’t wonder at all why the cubs didn’t retain him smack dab in the middle of their contention window. So I am sure they will lock Realmuto up.
Nigel Mckenzie
Going to be interesting , J.T. probably wants 25 or 30 mill a season. 6 years 130 mill would be fair imo.
dawordyall
Duh….. he’s a catcher…
dawordyall
Old six toes you’re referring to
Joeyg2033
Realmuto so far is saying all the right things. But truth be told, he wants full value for his ability and performance. He’s no different than anyone else. Donaldson loved his year with the Braves and practically pleaded with them to re-sign him. In the long run he had to do what was best for his family, which is why he took more money with the Twins. It’s not rocket science…
tom brunanskys black sock
of course he is different, he is a catcher. and he will break down quicker. team would be foolish not to take this into consideration while negotiating. i love stromboli
phillesfan07
He never really played catcher that much before getting drafted and in the minor leagues so most of his wear and tear will bein the major leagues and should be good to go for at least 5 more seasons.
rgreen
He played all but 2 games at catcher in the minors.
DarkSide830
Realmuto is a unique catcher. he’s well beyond any other catcher in athleticism. im not going to assume he’ll remain healthy over, say, even 5 more seasons, but he has well more of a chance than any catcher to do so.
PiratesFan1981
Yadier Molina wants to talk to you
phillesfan07
I would give him 6 years 150 with a back heavy contract so 10 million 2021 15 million in 2022 20 in million 2023 and 35 million for each of his last three seasons and a club option for 20 million for a seventh year I say because it going to be an affordable contract when he and harper are in their prime and they can bring in other FAs to build around him and when him in harper are out of the prime and they can tank money for Jt when they have to rebuild.
JustCheckingIn
so when he’s 35 and most likely to be least valuable, you want to pay him the most?
JoeBrady
I would give him 6 years 150
———————————————–
The original post said 6 years. In 6 years, he will have just turned 34. Or just 35, if it is a full extension.
phillesfan07
Yes because that’s when the Phillies are due to rebuild again
bobtillman
JT absolutely deserves the most he can get. And the Phils would be nuts to give it to him. Let him play the year out; no doubt he’ll be motivated. Then bid him a fond adieu. There’s other places to spend the 25M.
Great guy and all that, but long term deals like he wants inevitably wind up disasters. Spare me Max and Trout; how many of them are around.
jekporkins
Right now he’s worth $100 million, and the Phillies are definitely going to give it to him. As a GM in my own fantasy world, I see a catcher about to turn 30 wanting $20+ million into his mid-late-thirties and say heck no.
Posey was 26 and not even into his prime yet. I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Offer $90 million over 5 years and see if he bites.
YankeesBleacherCreature
The starting point has to be at least five years and $110+ million as he’ll get those offers in the open market playing at a premium position.
JustCheckingIn
He’s not signing for less than a 5 year old Martin deal when Martin was older when signed and arguably not as good.
Get real or go away
its_happening
Grandal money plus an extra year. $95’ish for 5 for Realmuto, somewhere in that ballpark. Depends on the market and who’s buying.
Brixton
Except he wants 160M so probably not
its_happening
As the saying goes, buyers beware.
brucenewton
They’d be roasted if they let him go so Realmuto has a lot of power in negotiations. When Posey was Realmuto’s age, he was better than Realmuto. Now look at him. Last half of a long extension will undoubtedly be ugly. He’s been 10% better than the average hitter in his career ( last year 8% ). He can’t afford to slip much and be viable making 25+ a year. If the Phils have a window it’s now. Gotta do it.
jonnymac2for1
The extension talks have been postponed for 2 weeks.
Dio
Even with a QO placed on him I would say the Tigers will look at him if he gots the market just as the did Ivan Rodriguez back in 2004. It will be much more expensive but with that young group of super arms in the farm it would make sense to have a guy like that working them. I’d say 4/100 with a 5th year mutual option and a $8million buyout.
Detroit will be picking tip 10 in 2021 so they won’t sacrifice much to sign guys stamped with a QO. Realmuto, Joc Peterson will both be targets for them. For a team in the top 10 the highest pick I Believe the highest they would give up would be a 3rd rounder and a 4th if they signed 2 guys with a QO. Detroit will spend next year if guys like this reach the open market.
Lovinmlb
At 4/100 Philly signs him and does a happy dance. This guy is going to want at least 6 years.
rgreen
Unless they show a significant improvement this year,he’s not going to Detroit after asking out of Miami.
VonPurpleHayes
There’s no reason to rush this. I still think it will get done, but I do think J.T. is asking for far too much given his age. This and the news of Arrieta’s injury really puts a damper on my excitement for the 2020 season.
IBFarr
Give him what he wants. The Phillies need him, there’s no other catcher like him in the game. He’s the first everyday catcher they’ve had since Carlos Ruiz.
richt
The second paragraph is one long sentence. Sheesh. Edit your posts.
gibbs58
Blog Age. You ask too much. C- students everywhere now. Oh wait. “They’re in a hurry to get the story out.” Even though there isn’t really anything new reported here and no actual news otherwise. Get used to it if you haven’t by now.
HartnellDown
Whatever he wants, pay it.
PiratesFan1981
Catching department is the weakest position in baseball. There aren’t too many everyday catchers playing. Most teams have to platoon the catcher position. There are only a handful of good everyday catchers.
With that said, it does put the Phillies in a position that no organization wants to be in. His asking price should be high because he is pretty solid catcher both offensively and defensively. There are not many in today’s game who we can say is a “solid catcher”. If Phillies don’t extend him, I am sure some contender will over him a good contract. He make look good in a Red Sox uniform if Phillies don’t bend. Where is that “stupid” money they had?
imindless
Wouldn’t do it catchers have the highest rate of attrition of all positions. He also wants the contract between ages 30-36, maybe 2 prime left years before he is forced to move maybe to first like mauer. No thanks
SalaryCapMyth
Yep. Been waiting for someone to post a statement that when he starts declining to move him to 1B. If he’s declining that means he has already lost value. Moving him to 1B would compound the loss of value because half of his value now is in his glove.
JoeBrady
Since 2000, for a 6-year range from 29-34, inclusive, there are 9 catchers with 15+ WAR, and 4 catchers with 23+WAR. Taking the mid-point, that’s an average of 19 WAR. If they paid him $150M/6, that would work out to $7.9M/WAR. I think that is reasonable. I don’t see a lot of negatives on him regarding health.
And the next CBA will likely have a materially higher payroll threshold, so the $/WAR escalation could be north of $10M/WAR by that point.
SalaryCapMyth
I think the Phillies are in a bit of a bind. The rebuild hasn’t gone as well as others and the farm is significantly weakened. They need to get a lot more out of the rebuild or I imagine jobs are going to start opening up in the front office.
Losing JTR would be a step in the wrong direction unless that same money they would pay him can get them another player who’s contribution would be at least as significant as Realmuto’s.
But then there’s also the warning sign on the side of the road saying beware lest you become the Chicago Cubs.
Iknowmorebaseball
Bottom-line the Phillies are idiots. This is typical of Art Mareno but I see the Phillies operate just like him. Signing JT was just a power trip by the Phillies. Now they look like a bunch of dummies because he is asking for what he’s worth and the Phillies are cheap donkeys. What it’s going to be is, bad investment, no ring and loss of prospects in this trade. It will show them that next time use one part of your brain at the very least.
qazer
Something like 5/110, 6/125 is completely supportable.
From there it shouldn’t be too hard to add on some optional years and incentives such that if he stays productive and healthy past 35 he can get up to the $160M he wants. (and not if he doesn’t)
rgreen
6y-135m,with 25 of it being a signing bonus.22.5 average,with 25 out of the way immediately,making future payouts around 18.3 per year.It would top Goldschmidt’s total money,even though the average value won’t.Goldy and Posey both won MvP awards.Wouldn’t even consider going towards Posey’s deal.If the 135 wouldn’t work,take the comp pick and find someone to help groom and share time with Grullon,and use the extra savings for pitching.
cygnus2112
6/120 with performance incentives. That seems more than reasonable for a catcher who’ll earn that money exclusively in his 30’s…
solaris602
If PHI was going to extend JT it would have already been done. I don’t see an extension happening now. If the Phillies are 8+ games off the pace in July I think they’ll trade him. Otherwise he’ll get the QO after the season (which he rejects). Despite all that PHI would probably be the odds on favorite to sign him as a free agent next winter.