A New York district court judge has ordered MLB and the Yankees to unseal a 2017 letter sent by MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred to Yankees GM Brian Cashman regarding rules violations that occurred in 2015-16, as first reported by Evan Drellich of the Athletic. As Drellich suggested, the Yankees are likely to appeal the ruling, hear Greg Joyce and Ken Davidoff of the New York Post. The suit, brought by a collection of daily fantasy players against MLB, the Astros, and the Red Sox, was dismissed in April and is pending appeal to the Second Circuit. The Yankees are not a party in the action.
Given the Astros’ and Red Sox’s high-profile sign stealing scandals that arguably called into question the legitimacy of their respective 2017 and 2018 World Series titles, many will immediately raise their eyebrows at hearing the sport’s most prominent organization tied to similar allegations. However, it is important to note that the court’s decision to unseal the letter appears to be standard litigation procedure, not any sort of indictment of the letter’s contents.
In 2017, the Yankees were fined by MLB for wrongfully using their dugout phone. The league also investigated claims by the Red Sox that the New York club had used YES Network cameras to steal opposing teams’ signs. MLB could not substantiate those allegations. It seems the plaintiffs’ hope is to find evidence MLB permitted rampant sign stealing leaguewide, arguing the letter shows the commissioner was aware that the Yankees “engaged in a more serious, sign-stealing scheme” than MLB publicly let on, writes the court. Beyond the plaintiffs’ allegations, there is no evidence of such a scheme.
Indeed, the court writes that “much of the letter’s contents have already been revealed in the 2017 Press Release” that announced the Yankees’ punishment for dugout phone misuse, relays Drellich. An attorney for the Yankees reiterates that position, arguing that “the press release is accurate and states MLB’s conclusions.”
As part of a robust discovery process, correspondence between the league and teams potentially relevant to the proceedings would typically be turned over. However, MLB and the Yankees maintained this letter should remain sealed, arguing that unsealing it could result in “significant reputational injury” to both the league and club. Exactly what injury they fear is unclear, but the court noted that any reputational harm suffered would be “modest at best,” Drellich says.
Surely, some fans will take interest in the result of the Yankees’ forthcoming appeal and the letter’s contents. However, there’s very little beyond the allegations of an interested litigant that the Yankees participated in a sign stealing scheme at all, much less one that rivals the Astros’ (and to a lesser extent, Red Sox’s) violations.
Figures
Yankees are filthy rotten cheaters too
With regards to this report in 2017, I recall Girardi confessing that “all teams try to steal signs” (which is true, to a certain extent…) but the Yanks were absolutely not using tech to aid them. Just going off recollection so I may have paraphrased a lil. Darkside- I believe you’re a Phillie fan, but are you in Philly?
well im an idiot for not realizing this. guess we cant have nice things on this darn team.
?
Only tainted titles
Gwynning–please stop. Of course they used tech to aid. This is the same team that gave A-Rod a new contract AFTER he admitted to using droid. Took Roger after he was busted trying to have sex with a 16 year old while he was married, fans reaching out to grab a ball from a player in the playoffs. Please, the Yankees would never NOT DO what ever they could to win and if they knew other teams were doing it,
I was just recalling what I heard Girardi say. I dislike the Yanks (and A-Roid) and have no reason to hide or lie. I don’t understand the rest of your rambling, so good day sir.
Metfan, I realize your hate runs deep but you do realize that ball was caught by a small child don’t you?
Explain how any of the Yankees’ titles are “tainted”. I’ll wait.
Oh, “BuT tHeY uSeD sTeRoIdS!!!!”
Is that your argument? You mean the one guy on the entire 96-00 dynasty rosters that were known to use steroids, Roger Clemens? “AnDy PeTtItTe UsEd ThEm ToO!!!!”
No, Andy used HGH, which has no performance-enhancing qualities and merely helps damaged muscle tissue regenerate and recover faster, effectively reducing recovery time for injured athletes.
One guy using steroids at a time when 90% of the league was using steroids does not in any way devalue a title.
Tex says they were, but surely you probably know better.
Ohhhhhh, sorry,didn’t realize that you are a kid. Good day sir. Wow.
Seth3120 He was a teenager not a small child. And IF he was a child why wasn’t there an adult to stop the “small child”. Just letting non-New Yorker know Yankees history. Funny story Jeffery Maier (who was 12 @the time) was on staff at a baseball camp (little kid grew up
fast) meets Tony Tarasco @ at that baseball camp. It was 5 years later . And if you don’t know Tony was the RF in that game
Yankees not using tech to steal signs ? Hmmm! I wonder what a dugout phone is ?
MetsFan – A-Rod re-signed after the 2007 season, and the roid stuff came out in 2009. If you are going to lay someone out please try not to be incorrect.
Small Child? a “Small Child” is a toddler about 3 or 4…..Meier was 12….A “Small Child” could not have reached into fair territory and grabbed a ball still in play.
Wild billy His roid use came out when was still in Seattle. I know a Dr who saw him twice in 6 months and knew. Added 50lbs of muscle in 6 months. Too much in to sbort a time & Not a pro jock who was working out And also failed text while in TX. Just because he ADMITTED using in 09 doesn’t mean they didn’t know. Seattle knew, TX knew but the Yankees didn’t please. Feel layed out. Probably not because you must stick your nose in stuff that not about you. And everything is about you. What about Dr Ellis having to find Pascal Perez (if I spelled that right effindi), correct this
The report in the NYP that claimed they’d read the report said they had players using the replay room to decode signs live, then using that info to relay signs via runners on base.
It’s cheating, and as a Yankee fan i’m disappointed, but it’s not even close to what the Astros did.
is it? i would agree if there was concrete evidence of buzzers, but i dont think this is less worse if there was that much more direct player involvement.
But this was what we knew about already. They found multiple teams doing exactly this but it hadn’t been a rule yet. It’s actually what led to the mlb changing the rule and sending all 30 teams a memo demanding they stop. Im pretty sure that’s not what is in this letter…
Oh wow, I never read that report. It might be very interesting to see what’s on that sealed letter soon then! Somebody asked Tony Gwynn why he watched so many VCR tapes and his response was “if you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.” Everyone tries to obtain advantages, especially if it’s your livelihood in sports.
How is it all that different? Both teams used reply equipment to steal signs and get the information to hitters live.
I’m sure every team did something similar.
I guess the Astros damaged stadium property
VCR tapes?
Pre and post game, Tony would watch tapes of opposing pitchers and of his own swings. He would study video before it was mainstream.
….so the Yankee replay guy gets a one year suspension and they loose a second round pick…..what I will laughing about is the thousands of “they cheated” comments like the Astros and Red Sox got …. can’t wait. Lol.
It was wasted space on the Astros and Red Sox (skipping over those comments) and will be on the Yankees…… here maybe this will get it out of their system ….. cheated cheated cheated
So Yankees did the exact same thing the Astros did minus the Garbage can. Who knows if Beltran implemented that system during his 14-16 tenure with Yanks. Who knows if the Yanks had a relay system. How did Gio get so good at baseball the minute he got to the Yanks? He was garbage until he arrived……
It’s still not a rule in the official MLB rulebook. Sandy Alderson sent out a memo in 2001 prohibiting any team from using electronics to steal signs and Manfred sent out another memo on 9/15/17 essentially indicating any future transgressions would be dealt with harshly. It was as much against the rules in 2015/2016 as it is today. It’s just that any punishment from doing it now will be much more severe than illegally using electronics prior to 9/15/17.
It’s exactly what the Astros did, the only difference is it used baserunners to signal instead of banging.
It’s stealing signs with live video, and if the commissioner punishes one team while letting another off, there’s a serious problem.
Why does Manfred keep Yankees dirt secret, but openly vigorously investigate other teams?? Horribly unfair.
Manfred’s letter to the Astros and letters to the Red Sox weren’t released either. It’s standard policy because they’re internal baseball communicatios.
My guess is all teams crossed the line in one extent or another, looking for a competitive edge. If not technically crossing it, the Yankees likely got so close to it that they “look bad”. Probably nothing in that it goes back to what they did BEFORE receiving the letter.
This^^^
Always have been. They have always been on the forefront of cheating and pushing the envelope. No surprises here
“The Yankees are filthy rotten cheaters”.
I’m a Mets fan. The fan base that screams this more than most. It’s also bull. Cry babies scream this because they’re so use to being losers in both sports and life. Sorry about your LDS “thatsright”.
And Beisbolista is nowhere to be found!!!
Loves to point the finger except when his precious Yankees have been implicated!!!
@Ass you’re an idiot. First of all, I’m a Diamondbacks fan. Secondly, no one cares about conduct taking place before it was against the rules. Thirdly, even if this is a true allegation (looks more like a fishing expedition by litigants), and even if it took place after the rule was made (it didn’t), this conduct did not result in the successful theft of a world title.
Lol! It was the same year the Astros cheated, using video to relay the coming pitch to hitters, and the only reason it didn’t lead to a WS appearance is because the Astros beat them.
Let’s also not forget that the Astros got the idea from Beltran and McCann when they came over from the Yankees. It’s cheating!
@beisbolista That’s the most ignorant comment I ever heard. So it’s ok to cheat as long as you don’t win the championship?
All teams knew where a line is even if it’s “invisible” and not actually in the rules. Despite what I just wrote, if it looks and quacks like a duck, it probably is. Was a watch rule really needed for Boston to know it was wrong? Sort of like still using andro once GNC could no longer sell it. Baseball has had rules in general governing cameras but watches were new. Was a special rule really needed? Buzzers too.
Concur. Should we start writing down and implementing all the “unwritten rules”? In the interest of fair play, it sounds like we should just to cover all bases going forward.
“Secondly, no one cares about conduct taking place before it was against the rules”
Tell that to Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, David Ortiz, etc. Seems people care a whole lot about some violations committed before rules were in place
There’s still no rule, but it was as much against the rules in 2015/2016 as it was in 2017 and going forward. The only difference is the punishment will be much more severe if it happened after Manfred’s memo on 9/15/17.
@KCJ
D’accord.
The best ballplayers of my generation may not actually get into the Hall.
Yet Selig is?
Man.
Kinda makes me disrespect baseball writers.
1. In my opinion all of the steroid users SHOULD be given a pass because the fn owners KNEW it and as long as they were breaking financial records no one cared. So yes, KCJ you’re right, the people bitching should shut the f up. BUT even then while not against baseballs rules it was still AGAINST THE LAW. So even those cry babies have a wobbly leg to stand on.
There were two writes on the committee that elected Selig, the rest were HOF’ers and baseball executives.
The original story in the athletic that kickstarted the red sox investigation noted that multiple yankees sources including players stated that NY had engaged in such behavior, amd it was going as far back as 2015.
I’d think there’s an effort to avoid needing to conduct a yankees investigation which would likely be called for after having persued boston on flimsier evidence.
You make 2015 sound like it was a lifetime ago.
Terry, with 2020 being what it has been, certainly starting to feel that way!
Actually, I chose to use the “as far back as” language because that is exactly how the athletic phrased it. The article curiously didn’t say when the yankees stopped, only how far back the activity was known to have started based on the interviews they did.
@Atl The Red Sox were actually busted for stealing a world series and MVP award using conduct that was illegal, thus AFTER the rules were passed. If you recall, they got basically a total pass on their 2016 conduct. Hell, they basically got a pass on their 2018 conduct. So what the hell are you so pathetically whining about???
Beisbolista 2016, stole a W/S and MVP., please detail what you mean and no potus like stories
Look at the poster. Yankees had PED guys during their glorious 1996 start run but some people can’t look in a mirror.
The 1990s steroid comparison is such juvenile nonsense. Steroids were legal and everyone had equal access. In other words it was fair game until it became against the rules.
The Red Sox stole a world series and MVP in 2018, after the conduct was against the rules and after the Red Sox received an individualized warning from the commissioners office.
Why would the commissioner launch an investigation based on conduct that wasn’t against the rules at the time? Let me give you a hint. He wouldn’t and he won’t.
How do you figure the 2018 world series was stolen?
There was very very little documented ‘cheating’ during the 2018 regular season, and proven absolutely ZERO in the post season.
So not sure how a stolen WS adds up here.
Also, before saying a MVP was stolen, please break down exactly how many ABs the ‘stolen mvp’ accumulated with a man on 2b and a hit occurred? That is the maximum effect the ‘cheating’ could’ve had, and, wasn’t even proven he was one of the players participating.
But I’m open to hearing how many potential hits were added to the total and looking at how it would’ve changed things.
I’m going to assume you don’t have a source for that data that you reviewed and can link to though and just like throwing unsupported accusations around
Go check the rulebook. There’s still no written rule against illegally stealing signs electronically. There have been 2 different memos sent out by the MLB front office indicating it is not allowed. One memo was sent out by Sandy Alderson in 2001 and the memo sent out by Manfred on 9/15/17.
AtlSoxFan: I agree. Manfred’s report on the 2018 Red Sox was a big nothing. It did not document a single actual instance of cheating happening. There is zero evidence that even a single at bat was affected. It was a bunch of speculation.
As long as you don’t win the title—CHEAT ON boys!!!
-Beisbolista
@jbigz Your reading comprehension can use some work. What I said quite clearly was that cheating which results in the theft of a world series title is worse than non cheating which results in the theft of nothing.
@beisbolista while I typically agree with what you’ve said you can’t go around saying it resulted “in the theft of nothing”. The truth is we don’t know if a non cheating team would have made the playoffs over one that did cheat. And I use the term cheat to cover all of it.
Check your facts son, the rule itself never changed. The letter to the teams said the punishment would be stiff. This is also from 2017, the year that ruined your life
Some of the steroids being taken were illegal by federal law, and some PEDs that were legal were not legal in Canada. No need for a league rule when an actual law is in-place in countries where MLB is played.
@iamhector It resulted in the theft of nothing because it wasn’t cheating in the first place in 2015-2016 (if it even happened at all)
@astros2017 The article clearly says that the letter covers conduct taking place in 2015-2016. Read before you post
Billy Billy billy=== PED. Did you miss the enhancement part. Layed out yet
And what teams didn’t have PED guys in their teams in the 1990’s/2000s
And what teams didn’t steal signs by the use of electronic means during this past decade?
@stros1 last decade? Seems like a pretty arbitrary number considering the rule went into effect during the last decade. Nice try though and sad to see you continuing to whittle away your own integrity by shilling for disgraced cheaters and renowned scumbags
Show me the rule in the rulebook that was broken.
Rule 21(f) of The Official Professional Baseball Rules Book, Major League Baseball.
“Nothing herein contained shall be
construed as exclusively defining or otherwise limiting acts, transactions,
practices or conduct not to be in the best interests of Baseball; and any and
all other acts, transactions, practices or conduct not to be in the best
interests of Baseball are prohibited and shall be subject to such penalties,
including permanent ineligibility, as the facts in the particular case may
warrant.”
@beisbolista that rule itself covers nothing and should be thrown out. In English it reads “we don’t know what else to outlaw so we are going to throw this rule in just to cover the fact that we don’t actually know what we are doing right now”
Where?
content.mlb.com/documents/2/2/4/305750224/2019_Off…
@stros1fan You’re not even in the right document lol. I gave you the name of the correct document. Do a Google search. If you’re not familiar with the rules that players need to abide by maybe you should stop acting like such an expert I mean lmao
@iamhector I’m very sorry you disagree with the rule. I’m sure Major league Baseball is too. But the fact of the matter is that this is the rules of the game. And under this rule, the Commissioner outlawed a certain type of cheating very explicitly… after the Yankees allegedly did it, and before the Astros and Red Sox were proved to have done it.
I honestly kinda hope the letter shows that Manfred covered something up. Not because I need to hear about more cheating in baseball, but because I need to hear about less rule changes to baseball. Hopefully this is his Watergate and he resigns because he’s not a crook and we get a new commissioner who actually has a spine.
They were trash in 15-16
Yes, they were indeed trash in 2016 and for the same reason why they were in 2013 and 2014, weak offense.
If MLB had caught a handful of small market teams cheating instead, would they have swept it under the rug? Or dropped the hammer?
didnt we say this about supposed covering for Yankees cheating? what will we say when “a handfull of small market teams” are caught. “so i guess they’re covering for former teams” or “i guess theyre covering for minor league teams.”
Who knows at this point. Sports in general are becoming a joke.
Especially this one
Yes, it would have been the hammer.
@ forwhom
Who’s to say they didn’t catch small market teams, and that they didn’t sweep it under the rug?
Both you and BellTolls raise interesting questions! We will probably never know one way or another, unfortunately.
who’s to say that this isn’t a massive conspiracy, where cheating has been propagated by the league on a team by team basis in order to boost certain markets in certain seasons?!!!
Another interesting take, Doc! I wasn’t even thinking that way… but my most scandalous attempts at sign stealing was to raise your left hand towards second base if you thought it was a breaking ball!
Wait wasn’t that in a Simpson’s episode? Something about MLB using satilites to spy on us….? Hmmm
youtu.be/hxszN_1k6fQ
Because small market teams don’t bring in as much money MLB looks better if they go after them. MLB wouldn’t be hurt money wise. But they Yankees/Redsox/etc support the league and small market teams.. So if MLB wentg after the Yankees/Red Sox MLB would be hurt income wise
Except they kinda did go after the Red Sox
Not a chance. Free giveaways would have increased and some kind of movement would have followed condemning anyone who dared speak out against anything wrong/evil they did.
Who did Mlb catch and report ?!? They sweep everything under the rug- that’s why all 30 teams have their own media department that has exclusive rights to teams that other media does not- so they can control public image. The Astros cheating leaked out everywhere and Mlb had to address it
Ok Then! About to get thick!! I hope the Yankees & Judge wasn’t involved with this Sign Stealing adventure too!
@usnscporet
Such a bummer.
I really kinda saw this coming. I mean, how could anyone not realize what the Astros were doing?
I’ve been bothered by the Yankees letting it happen with no drilling in order to stop it.
My theory was – sadly enough – that the Yanks were doing it too. Glad it’s coming out.
This season sucks.
Should put in the next cba “that any players, coaches, front offices executives will get punish in any sign stealing scheme”. What they should do is get rid of the rule of limiting the mound visits which started this whole thing.
they should get rid of all the “time saving” rules they’ve added. they all suck.
You’re 100% correct. I’m having a hard time trying to think of ONE good thing Manfred has done/instituted. I hate the DH in NL idea most.
Gwynning your take not only sucks here but is the issue with society. “Everything is fine. Stop making rules to make the game better (or society more fair).” Anyone who enjoys watching a pitcher hit is a moron.
Anyone who doesn’t enjoy watching a scared pitcher trying to hit is a moron. It’s comic relief and the game could use more unforced funny. Pitchers can put down the PS4 controller and work in the cage.
I usually respect your takes Hector but I respectfully disagree here. I was (am?) a pitcher and i absolutely loved to hit. A little practice goes a long way, and the pitchers that don’t practice are the easy outs. Maybe society has larger issues with people that attack other’s opinions instead of people that wish to retain good, harmless entertainment that has been the status quo. If you love the DH so much, be an AL fan. We both win. Enjoy your day!
@Dark, they should get rid of the video replay rooms altogether. I would venture to guess that many, if not most, teams started to use the replay room live feeds inappropriately once they came into existence with the replay review system. With the Asteriks, R. Sox, Yankees, etc. (and all the other teams who didn’t get caught) behind us, maybe teams will “clean up” their actions. Maybe. But, do they need a video replay room at all? Just make the manager and bench coach use their eyes and make them decide if a video replay is warranted. Nix the rooms, and this kind of nefarious cheating will disappear. Seems simple to me.
The man on second in extra inning is the worst idea yet.
What they need to do is actually punish rule infractions. I mean really punish them. Period.
the thing is, if as many teams are cheating as may be the case, (not on the “everyone” does it side, just saying there is a trend) its gonna be hard to encourage them to support larger punishments that they may have to deal with. it sucks but its true.
When the bubble around the Astros burst there were a lot of angry players around the league. They wanted the Astros to get a harsher punishment than what they got so I think players would be on board with stronger punishments. There were a lot of people doing steroids but they eventually came around to creating a strong punishment system for that.
I hear ya And I don’t disagree. It does suck that that could truly be the reality. It sucks that we ALL have to deal with it.
@dark, I once again agree. I think beyond the Stros,
Sox, Bombers, it’s likely that many other teams have been using the replay rooms in an “unintended” manner. Can’t punish ALL the teams, so just dump the video replay rooms. Plus, they further slow the game down. I like the replay review, but skip the first part where the guys are viewing the tape in the room to decide to challenge the call. Takes too long, and it encourages cheating.
Agree stollcm. The union should be massively concerned with protecting the integrity of the game. It ensures that all players are on an equal playing field. I can’t fathom why the players union is so adamant on protecting those that cheat.
If I was an employee in a union and I was straight as an arrow but other employees are the opposite, i would be pissed at the union for protecting all….but that’s just me. Sad truth is it’s not just the players. Ownership seems to be at fault too. Huh…kind of like the resumption of play bs going on right now….
They should. But as had been mentioned, in 2016 there were no specific rules against this. I believe the Yankees, Astros, and Red Sox (using replay rooms and apple watches in 2015-2016) were the reason MLB sent out a memo to all teams on what they could and couldn’t do.
It’s why the Astros were punished so severely: they’d been warned.
There was a memo sent out by Sandy Alderson in 2001 prohibiting the use of electronics to steal signs. There still is no official rule in the rulebook. Manfred’s memo simply stated any future usage of stealing signs electronically would be punished more severely.
I don’t know if punishment for sign stealing is something they’d specifically collectively bargain. That would just fall under the Commissioner’s disciplinary powers, I’d think?… I don’t know, though.
I do agree, restricting the mound visits was/is a stupid idea on baseball’s part; and I think has helped lead to a rise in this.
They won’t just like how they handled the steroid abuse. MLBPA went out of its way to keep steroid abuse in the game. They went out of their way to protect Astros cheating and making a mockery of the game.They defended Blake Snell who told fans to drop dead that the players are important but their lives aren’t worth anything. MLBPA has done a terrible job with public perception. Baseball’s slogan is if you aren’t cheating your not trying. Wilpons with their Ponzi scheme. Jeter the face of baseball cheated on his taxes.
While some of that may be true, Derek Jeter’s taxes have nothing to do with what happened on the diamond and no, most of the players around the league didn’t like the cheating. Most players were afraid to say something out of fear they would be ostracized or that they would put themselves and their teammates in danger of being HBP, black-balled from signing contracts, etc. It took a bit of bravery for Mike Fiers to speak up. For example, here is an MLBTR article featuring players who were angry about discussing the situation (Andrew Heaney is an MLBPA rep for the Halos):
mlbtraderumors.com/2020/02/major-leaguers-discuss-…
The Wilpons were VICTIMS of a Ponzi scheme, and I seriously doubt Jeter was doing his own taxes.
Is your source just as questionable?
Why were the Wilpons required to pay people as a settlement if they were innocent? nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/taxman-der…
Thanks for the article but that was all about Jeter’s disputed residence. I’d never seen it though so thanks again.
This piece seems a little pro-Yankees and anti-Houston and anti-Boston. Not to start anything, just my opinion.
Respectfully.
innocent until proven guilty. we know the later two are gulity already.
Meh….
Darkside – nobody followed that approach during the whole boston investigation, and, there’s ‘former players’ on record with the athletic story saying the yankees had a history of electronic sign stealing so…
honestly what ive gotten out of this is teams are trying to bend the rules more than just fully break them. the rulebook’s rules on sign stealing are fairly ambiguous, and while its clear most of this stuff is banned, you can argue there needs to be less ambiguity if you really wanna dole out real punishments.
This!
They were ambiguous before 2017/2018. But MLB sent a memo to all teams after catching the Red Sox and Yankees bending the rules, telling teams what crossed the line. At this point, it’s much less vague.
Seems the commish here may of been involved more in protecting the yankees and it might turn out a underhanded agreement with Cashman to fire the manager after the letter…. hmmm when did Giardi get fired yep end of that season!
Do the right thing and take the metal away from the cheaters who get caught.
The Astros and Red Sox were both black eyes for the sport. I wonder if they’re just trying to avoid taking a busted nose now?
This could be nothing. I’m not going to be quick to assume it’s something. It makes me wonder though, if it’s nothing, why the fight to conceal it? The phrase “significant reputational injury” is also some heavy wording, if it’s a nothing type of deal.
Yea we don’t know what’s in the letter and won’t until it’s released…but there is a reason the yanks don’t want it released
Where’s the jomboy vid explaining their transgressions
He can’t make a video until he knows what the transgressions are… we should know tomorrow.
If yinz not cheating yinz not trying to win.
“However, it is important to note that the court’s decision to unseal the letter appears to be standard litigation procedure, not any sort of indictment of the letter’s contents”
The Yanks’ unwillingness to share it IS some sort of indictment of the letter’s contents though
Not really… there are plenty of reasons not to want the letter opened. In particular, we never learned the definite identity of anyone involved (we all assumed Rothschild was the one who used the phone but we don’t even definitively know that as far as I’m aware). I can also see the Yankees not wanting to be pulled into a law suit they weren’t part of.
The Red Sox have 2 similar confidential letters and the Astros have 1 of their own. I’m willing to bet the organizations would feel similar if the contents of those letters needed to be released.
At least Houston and Boston got a trophy out of their cheating.
And they should be proud of that…?
But Yankee fans told me only the Astros and Red Sox were cheaters
I’m not sure I see anything in this article that says to the contrary… I’m not saying the Yankees didn’t cheat, I just don’t see how this article changes anything. I think people are blowing this crazy amounts out of proportion personally. We’re taking about a claim coming from plaintiffs in a lawsuit that’s already been throw out trying to come up with something new to substantiate why they should make a lot of money. If they gave us even a little info as to why they think the letter had more than we were told I’d maybe buy in. But right now it just seems like a bunch of people with a lot of money on the line grasping at straws… if they were so confident there was something in the letter why not bring it up during the initial case and name the yanks right away? Why wait for the appeal after you already lost?
How much you want to bet I can throw a football over them mountains ?
Betcha an American dollar you can’t…
Why doesn’t MLB say stricter guidelines and enforcement didn’t start until late 2017 and everything before that is not the issue. Even the Astro’s and Red Sox were only penalized for actions that took place after the memo.
ignore guys who hit 270 with 20 Homer’s. they’re a dime a dozen
Where all the this began…. When Beltran was on the Yankees….
if I’m a Rangers fan im sweating right now
Exactly….I am a Rangers fan, and noticed their silence during the Astros and Red Sox penalties being handed down
Really interesting how in the 00’s, MLB made a concerted effort to “boost the popularity of the game in Texas”. Guess that meant “cheating without punishment”??
Are we sure about that? I read somewhere that he may have started it when he was in St. Louis. It’s clear he’s a major player in these schemes, though, and that other teams like the Sox followed suit.
That said, I agree with most folks that pretty much all teams try to steal signs, but I think it was players like Beltran (and I doubt he was the only one) who tried to find ways to get a leg up.
Yea, they might as well just make Beltran the scapegoat. Houston already did. Lol
what is clear here is more scrutiny is needed. the league should launch investigations into each team to dig up what they can. i think many fans would respect the league as a body more if they were willing to really go after this issue.
Why should they dig into every team if there is no smoke? I’ve said this for a long time: what the league needs is an independent body that players, coaches, and staff can go to when they witness cheating.
Where there is no smoke? Are you serious? The original article that started all of this mentioned anywhere from 12-18 teams had been mentioned to them as stealing signs.
I’m not saying you’re wrong and I don’t disagree but I’m curious what in this article makes you say that? We’re talking about a letter regarding an investigation that was already done. Not something the league ignored and never looked into in. We have nothing even resembling evidence that this letter indicates the Yankees were doing more than we all already knew about (the dugout phone and the pre2017 replay room).
I can see a couple things come to mind…
One is that there was evidence of something, but nothing widespread (in the red sox vein) and the league said so but swept it under the rug rather than impose equal penalties… that would look rather bad.
Another option is it hints at something going on that the league chose not to pursue in depth, but it did in the 2017 and 2018 investigations making it look like mlb was inept.
End of the day, if it is only old information what further harm would it do?
But where is your evidence that any of that is the case? A plaintiff in a lawsuit lost their case and is now trying to find something else? As I said above this whole thing honestly seems really silly to me. We’re talking about an investigation that already took place and really have nothing to suggest anything is being hidden.
In terms of further harm, for one the letters have the identities of people involved so even if it didn’t effect the organization as a whole, it could dramatically affect the lives of the people sited. We are also talking about a legal case so it’s not exactly something people love to be pulled into… I honestly don’t think not wanting to unseal the letter is all that suspicious. I’m willing to bet if the Red Sox were told to release either of their confidential letters they would have essentially the same reaction
“I’m willing to bet if the Red Sox were told to release either of their confidential letters they would have essentially the same reaction”
I’m sure they would, because they cheated… I’m also sure the Astros would have the same reaction, because they cheated too.
and then when they find nothing on the other 27 teams, you will claim bias instead of admitting you fell for a made-up narrative that “all teams” are cheating.
All 30 teams are not cheating on the level those 3 teams are, end this madness.
That judge must be a Mets fan lol
Wondering why beisbola hasn’t chimed in with his hatred yet
Maybe he’s on a 50-post suspension for “performance enhancing substances”?
Beltran was on those Yankees teams.
He was their secret “mole” last year too..
Just say you found a letter from someone to your wife. You cannot open the letter without a judge allowing it. Your wife then said, please don’t read it cause it could seriously injure my reputation. Would you think it was something you already knew about her or would you be cuck?
The Yankees are fighting this awfully hard for something that would cause reputational harm “modest at best”
Sunlight is the best disinfectant. I guess this makes the Yankees and MLB the “germs” in this case.
The thing that kills me the most about this, are these smooth-brained takes saying “Buh buh buh ALL TEAMS DO IT”.
No, three teams do it. All 27 other teams are not cheating on this level. No one thought MLB would ever call out their biggest cash cow, the Yankees, but here we go.
Yankees, Red Sox and Astros fans: your fave team cheated. Own up to it, possibly stop being a fan of that team, but mostly keep your mouth shut when it comes to commenting on other teams far lesser perceived negatives. If you support any of those 3 teams, what you think about baseball no longer matters to the rest of us, because you lack morals and can’t discern between good and bad anymore.
Three teams have been caught or accused of it. It’s incredibly naive to think that the vast majority didn’t have at least something that wasn’t 100% legit. When you hear people actually in the game saying it’s a widespread issue, why just believe there’s only three?
I’ve seen the light, thank you guy with a fake name on a message board telling people what to do and how to feel with regard to a form of entertainment. You’re an inspiration to us all, Strike Four.
Looking forward to burying the Yankees all offseason
Who cares? Let’s change this site to COVID-19 rumors. More interesting.
Yankees and to a slightly lessor extent the RedSox are spared from punishment severity by MLB home office because they fear local retalliation by the fans. A major example is the treatment of Atlanta and Houston vs the treatment of New York and Boston for virtually the same offenses.
Didn’t hurt that NY had Joe Torre in the back pocket up in MLB either. Helps having friends in high places.
Baseball players/teams are trying to gain an edge. What’s changed over 100+ years? The methods. They will continue to attempt to gain an edge long after we are gone. This will continue.
Doubtful that the recent punishments will deter teams and players from adopting new methods moving forward.
If most of this sealed letter was previously released, then why are they so concerned about “significant reputational injury”. Seems fishy to me. They’re hiding something.
When Beltran arrived at the Astros in 2017, he told the team that their sign-stealing system was “behind the times”. Soon after that, they implemented the infamous system they ultimately got busted for. After the 2017 season, when Beltran returned to the Yankees in their front office, he was asked by other Yankees employees about the sign-stealing and what the Astros were doing. His reply was “Nothing anyone else isn’t already doing”. Anyone who thinks the Astros and Red Sox were the only teams cheating is just lying to yourself. The Astros and Red Sox were just better at it than the rest of the league at the time.
This whole situation is being blown out of proportion. But if the Red Sox had to lose a draft pick for their sign stealing situation — so should the Yankees (if it comes out they did it too). Having said all that people need to put these situations in context — what the Red Sox did is equivalent to going 90 MPH in a 65 — not Murder vs driving 65 MPH. Like every team (or most anyway) in the league were/are probably doing some sort of sign stealing stuff. The Astros were just doing the most blatant and worst of all of them… but still it’s like speeding… everyone (or lots of people anyway) do it — it just becomes a matter of how much over the speed limit you’re going and whether or not there’s a cop there to pull you over. Am I saying that makes it okay? NO! But it also needs to stay in context that it’s not Murder vs. going 65… it’s going 90 in a 65.
Nice of baseball to sprinkle in some good news in these trying times.
Glad to know the great minds of fantasy baseball players are taking the lead to help clean up baseball….. They dont even have to make this stuff up for this sport, just wild!-
“significant reputational injury”, aaaaand I should feel bad about that?
That’s what you risk when you cheat.
It’s a pretty standard result of cheating.
Is baseball dying? Like wtf.
Cheating is cheating is cheating.
All of this talk about “context” of the cheating or “everyone’s doing it” is asinine. Cheating is a violation of the game and its integrity and no matter how “little” or “big” the cheating is categorized in your mind….ITS STILL CHEATING.
Stop justifying it!
How do you stop it? How do you prevent cheating in baseball? I ask because I agree with you.
Judge must be a Mets fan
Aaron Judge? Say it ain’t so, Joe!
You can’t have this kind of cloak n’ dagger nonsense and think people won’t have their attention drawn to it. Especially a year like this. If the Yankees win in court than this letter is going to be right up there with Trumps tax returns and Hillary Clinton’s email’s.
I wonder how much more of this baseball can take before it folds under the weight of it’s own lack of integrity and accountability.
Sign stealing in baseball dates back to the 50’s & 60’s. Teams would have people in the stands with binoculars and then relay the sign sets back to the dugout and tell the players which sign sets were being used. When runners reached second base, they would use this information to decode the signs and signal the batter. This is in essence what the Red Sox did in 2018, they just used a video monitor instead of a stoolie in the stands. At some time over the past 40+ years, the vast majority of teams have tried to employ something like this to get an advantage.
What Houston did went so far beyond this. They actually had an electronic system to decode each pitch sign (not identify sign sets) and relay this information directly to the batter from the dugout. Much, much worse than having a runner try to decode sign sets from second base (and that assumes the team didn’t change them in between batters). Houston also used their system in the playoffs too; something the Red Sox did not do. This is why the players were so irate at the Astros but no one said a peep about the Red Sox issue as they have all seen something similar at one point in their careers.
Sign-stealing has been going on since the 1800s.
si.com/mlb/2020/01/23/sign-stealing-history-astros…
I always suspected Cap Anson wore a buzzer in ’81 when he hit .399!
Wow, I didn’t know it’s been around that long, but I’m not surprised that it started before I existed, though.
It’s one thing to steal signs in real time as opposed to watching video or a man on second relaying signs. Your an idiot if you think sign stealing is anything new
Not sure why people think this anything. Seems pretty obvious there’s not going to be any new info in the letter. Based on the reasoning the judge gave for releasing the letter, can’t imagine there’s anything material beyond what we already knew about the 2017 incident.
If the Yanks were cheating in 2015 and 2016, they weren’t very good at it. Those were 2 of their worst seasons of the last decade.
Bronx Bombers…more like Bronx JERKS…who cares, they’re Bronze level, just like on The Show…someone pass me an ice cold beer Bubba!
The call to the dugout was perfect! No pro quid throw! No whistle blowing or garbage can banging.
But they didn’t win anything… so who cares? They cheat but still lose.
Yankees fans during Houston and Boston investigations: Their titles are tainted!!! They cheated!!!! Make them pay!!!!
Yankees fans during the attempted cover up of Yankee cheating:
Insert surprised Pikachu face here.
What? You want to vacate their 4th place finish? Congrats, Rays fans! You weren’t 5th that year after all.
Look at all the washed out, retread, aaaa, or journeymen ballplayers in the last two seasons who instantly hit at a .270-.300 with 20-30hr season pace per 162 in NY the past couple years after doing… well nearly nothing before.
But no, nothing fishy could possibly be going on in ny.
It wasn’t the last 2 seasons the report was talking about. It was 2015 and 2016. The Yanks sucked in those years.
I assumed that the AAAA players that they picked up, and turned into really good players, were all juicing.
That’s why everyone needs to shut up. If you get caught, it’s not like your alone.
You start talking smack, like the Yankees, that’s when it looks really ugly.
Anyway, rotflmao, so thanks.
Put on the scrutiny ya’ll haters. I’m suuuuuuper confident we’re better than the Houston Trastros. The entire league love dugout phones and steroids if that’s anyone’s argument. Not cameras.