10:55am: Players have been asked to respond to the proposal by Wednesday, tweets ESPN’s Jeff Passan.
10:25am: Major League Baseball’s 30 owners have made a new proposal to the union, ESPN’s Karl Ravech reports (via Twitter). The latest attempt by the league to return to play would see a 76-game season that pays players at 75 percent of their prorated contracts and concludes on Sept. 27. The postseason would still finish before the end of October, and the players would receive some portion of “playoff pool money.” Draft pick compensation for signing players would also be temporarily eliminated.
On the one hand, it’s encouraging to see a new effort from ownership. On the other hand, Mike Axisa of CBS Sports points out (via Twitter) that the offer essentially boils down to the same one the league has previously made twice — just dressed up differently. The league’s 82-game, sliding-scale proposal would’ve paid players, on average, about a third of their full-season salary. That’s also true of a roughly 50-game schedule with fully prorated salaries, and the new offer is also in that same ballpark.
To that end, it’s not surprising to see SNY’s Andy Martino tweet that the general player reaction to this is further anger. The Athletic’s Evan Drellich elaborates, tweeting that the union thinks this offer is actually a step back, as players would be more dependent on postseason bonuses to receive their full pay — despite the fact that the league itself has persistently expressed concern about the potential cancellation of playoff games due to an autumn surge in COVID-19 cases.
Per Drellich, the proposal would pay players only half of their prorated salaries for the proposed 76-game regular season, though that number would rise to 75 percent should a full postseason be able to be played out. Meanwhile, Ravech tweets that some sources contend that this offer translates to about $200MM more in total player salaries being paid out in 2020. That seems contingent on the postseason being played in full, though, so the union likely does not see things that way.
It’s also worth noting that while the league can point to the temporary suspension of the qualifying offer/draft compensation system as a win for players, that’s a potentially hollow gesture. Given the widespread revenue losses, even fewer players than usual would be expected to receive a QO at all. Mookie Betts, George Springer and J.T. Realmuto might receive a QO under any circumstance, but borderline cases would almost surely not be given a QO due to ownership fear over accepting and being saddled with a hefty 2021 salary. The Athletics were in essence publicly shamed into paying their minor league players after cutting their weekly stipends to save a total of $1.2MM; it shouldn’t even be assumed that a player like Marcus Semien would be guaranteed a QO.
It seems quite likely that the MLBPA will reject this offer, though if the outcome is a return to some actual back-and-forth negotiation, that could make the new proposal significant even if it was never likely to be accepted in the first place.
In the absence of a true negotiation, the league appears poised to stand by commissioner Manfred’s ability to set a season length at which ownership is comfortable paying fully prorated salaries. If the league views that as the likely outcome, then it may not feel a great sense of urgency anyhow, as a season in the vicinity of 50 games could be played out between August and September (or sooner, depending on start date) with a postseason being completed well prior to the Oct. 31 cutoff point on which owners have been adamant.
No change on ownerships part and the clock is ticking.
No change on the player part, clock is ticking.
I continue to blame both sides, who are equally unwilling to compromise.
I agree with @WiffleBall on this one. Neither side is willing to budge.
Owners are at least trying, players haven’t made any effort to make a season happen here. They are looking very bad.
Manfred and Clark deserve each other.
No kidding right. That’s funny. Can’t stand these guys.
The players made a concession during Corinna already. This is their second. So you’re wrong.
Owners have made the same proposals over and over pretty much. They say 50 games prorated, 76 games with 75% or 82 with sliding scale. The difference for the total player pool money is very little. The only difference is sliding scale take money from richer players but overall money is the same. Who would work MORE for the same amount of pay. Players are fighting for more of their due money to play under extreme conditions as would anybody at their workplace.
Who’s Corinna? And what does she have to do with all this? And why are the players mingling with a Corinna? They need to be social distancing!
Not funny. Try again Sheep.
No the owners are not trying to craft mutually acceptable offers. They are just repackaging the same offer so fools like you will think they care.
76 games would be the absolute minimum. If it is 50 games then DON’T BOTHER.
Second that!!
youtu.be/eZokHtbfnig
Why should players budge, they arent the billionaires asking for help absorbing their financial losses, owners are?
That’s what ppl seem to fail to understand. The owners are basically saying, “hey guys, we need some financial relief” and the players are saying well we agreed to not be paid for games not played and owners are saying no that’s not enough we need u to play for 30-35%. Why would they do that.
Let’s look at it from a real world scenario… say, u make $15/he and work 50 hrs week. Boss says hey guys we need some financial support. And u say well just cut me down to 25 hrs a week. And boss tells u well that’s great but we need u to work for $5/ would u take it? Hell no, u wouldnt, and why should they?
I do not get how anyone can support the owners on this. The players haven’t just been on vacation the last three months despite no baseball. They are still working out, pitchers have had to keep their arms stretched out, hitters taking BP to stay ready. They might not be on the payroll, but they have still been “working” so that they can perform when the season starts.
To only get paid 33% of your salary for the all of the extra work they have put in despite not getting paid, as well as the hassle of all of the testing and safety requirements of playing, and the time they won’t be able to spend with their family, I just don’t think it is worth it for the players.
If I am a guy like Marcus Stroman, coming off a great year, and heading into free agency, there is no way I risk an arm injury for 33% of my already suppressed salary that was negotiated under the antiquated arbitration system. If i’m him, i’m siting out the rest of the season rather than risk an arm injury and miss the huge pay day.
Attendance is a big part of revenue for many of the teams. Yes they may play games, but tickets sales and concessions will be down a lot. The owners have all the risk financially. I would bet a team like the Marlins would playa game or two at a net loss. The best bet is a true split of revenue. Fans show up, players and owners get paid. They don’t show up, neither gets paid. If the season does play, and players sit out. I would not want to be the agents for those players. If I was a GM I would not sign a player that sits out.
Right, they’re the millionaires asking for help absorbing their financial losses.
This is what you are failing to understand that your example makes the players look bad. If we went back to normal things where fans can sell out the ballpark I agree it would be messed up what the owners are doing. The players association came out and said the fans don’t matter to them. They proved that by keeping Blake Snell In MLBPA and he didn’t apologize for his outrageous insult to the fans. They did nothing about The Astros cheating as all the players involved are allowed to play instead of getting Pete Rose treatment. I don’t support the owners normally but why are the bailing out the players to have a season at a extreme lost. The players sold out future players with MLB draft this year. Amazing part it is so short sided from both sides as the way this draft will be taken place we will never see a talent like Jacob DeGrom in MLB since 10 round no longer exist.
The owners aren’t taking all the financial risks in the game, not by a long shot. Players signing out of high school or afterwards interrupt their own futures including college educations to be drafted into the game to play for peanuts in the minors. They are betting a big part of their future on being one of the select few who makes it the majors for more than a cup of coffee, if that much. MLB is built as much on the backs of the players who never make any money from the game as the ones who do. By the numbers even more so. Without a labor structure that includes so many poorly-paid and disposable players the team owners don’t have anything to put at risk.
@Rickey – it’s a catch 22 though. Someone making $15 an hour can easily go find another job that pays $15/hour. Meanwhile someone making millions playing baseball would be extremely hard pressed to find another line of work where they make anywhere close to their current salaries. So the players don’t have nearly as much leverage as an hourly employee does.
Players keep themselves in shape every single offseason and don’t get paid for it. So that part is no different than normal.
Your real world scenario implies that the players can’t afford to live off the money they’re being offered, which is so very wrong. This whole situation can be boiled down to this: Two groups of individuals who are all in the top 1% and they’re arguing about money at a time like this. To hell with the players. To hell with the owners. I have no respect for either and neither should you.
That would be good for owners. They could replace his millions with a minimum wage to a replacement that may or may not be better than Stroman.
Your assumption that all HS signees are college material is way overstated. The ONLY reason a HS kid signs at all is the upfront money. And they all maintain the ability to enroll in college at any time. That is no sacrifice whatsoever.
Incorrect. If there is no season, players keep the money they have already been paid and owners lose a great deal of money being paid out to front office, scouts, major and minor league players, etc.
Don’t worry you aren’t a gm
totally agree.
Let them cry all season.
I’m wishing for no baseball now. Players deserve to go couple years without salary to prove a point to us fans.
No, they are millionaires who expect to be paid their millions even if the people who are paying them are losing tens of millions of dollars.
What are the profits the owners are making from a baseball season? In essence, it is their paycheck. Now, imagine that you stop getting a paycheck because of the virus. You get no income. If you want to reopen your business you can, but you will make $500 per day while paying out $600 per day to your employees. Do you reopen? I kinda think that you wouldn’t.
Can the owners afford to take the financial losses? Sure, technically they can. I am also sure that everyone on this site can technically afford to give anywhere from $100-$1000 every month to charity. How many do? It’s easy to say that someone else should lose money, it’s entirely different when someone else tells you that you should.
Multi-Billionaires.
Javia if you are an owner and you make the decision to punt on the season you’re also taking a loss on all the fan fare leaving and becoming disinterested in a sport that’s already behind nfl and nba. Having a season improves your product for many years even if you have to take an initial loss.
the difference that your leaving out is that NONE of these guys ‘need’ their paychecks. the owners ARE going to lose money.
you don’t understand business.
exactly.
and if your a player your punting your paycheck
Word
Billionaires. Three zeros short.
It’s hardly a ‘real life scenario’. You have a unique skill set that has only one employer in the US. If you say no, you get 4% of your pay. Using your ‘real life scenario’, the choice is try to work something out or get paid 25 cents per hour. It makes sense for both sides to make an effort.
WHO CARES ?? See ya in 2021 { maybe} fellas !!
Players and owners are in the same boat bronxbombers. That seems to be something that people don’t understand. If the owners lose money, the player contracts get smaller. There is only 1 MLB in the U.S. If the players push too far where are they going to go? Play in Japan? The KBO? No $300 million contracts there. Blame the owners all you want. If they lose millions, their employees lose millions. That is how business works. Nobody on Earth buys and runs a business to make their employees happy. You do it to make money.
If the owners give at all now, do you think they will ever get it back? Do you think the players will give them a break on the next CBA if the owners voluntarily take a huge loss now “for the good of the game?” No. The players will smell blood in the water and probably push baseball into bankruptcy in the next CBA.
Lots of people like to say that baseball players have an incredibly valuable skill. Worth millions or even hundreds on millions of dollars. Maybe they do. What they do not have is any sense, talent for or idea of how to run a business. They will happily keep demanding more and more money until they bankrupt their employer, then they will blame their employer when they no longer have a job.
Why would the players agree to anything less. There is zero reason they can’t get 100 games in and play through November. Owners don’t want that because they want the huge TV money that is associated with an election year. They want the season complete by Election day. I know people usually side with ownership, but this time I think the players are in the drivers seat. Enough players will sit out rather than risk an injury/deal with the hassle of playing under the Covid-19 guidelines, than take the 33% salary and risk an injury and all of 2021.
Interesting it states they get 75% of their salary pro rated over 76 games so where does your 33% figure come from? The players are in the driver seat which explains why they ran over school children already with their supporting of fixed games(Astros,David Ortiz,Arod,Clemens etc) and tone deaf statement led by Blake Snell who told the fans they are worthless. Biting the hand that feeds you will ensure growth for baseball I’m sure. Look at how great they are doing compared to NBA and NFL!!!!! Players are ensuring its 1994 again
(76/162) * .75 = .35
Close enough for baseball work.
Yes! And it’s looking more and more like the Dodgers are going to be the laughing stock of the league by getting ripped off in the Mookie trade. I think it’ll look like a trade that was made for David Price only, and paying him a ton of money while on his old man years, lmao! And giving away prospects and Verdugo. Someone needs to get fired for this bonehead move
one of the dumbest posts I have EVER seen on here. Like the Dodgers KNEW the Coivd-19 crisis was coming right?
Yes I agree that tjis was one of the dumbest trades made that I have ever seen as welll. But regardless if they new or not my big time goat…….they made a blunder!!
How about this?
Players get paid full salary for the 112 games they’re asking but only get paid for the games they play in.
Have the day off? You don’t get paid (or if MLB wants to be really generous gives a substantially lower pro-rated pay for that day… like 20% or something)
People supporting players will cry this isn’t fair. That they still have to show up and be ready.
But basically they’re sitting in their butt offering no real production if they don’t get in the game.
You want to cut costs? Start there. There’s little argument against it.
It’s no different than companies that hire independent contractors to work on an hourly basis. If the company doesn’t have any work they need the contractor to do on a given day, he doesn’t get paid.
Easy. Now MLB needs to hire me to solve all its problems. This one is free in good faith. The rest will cost you MLB. Feel free to contact me for salary negotiations.
Players have no control over when they’re played. That’s just giving the owners the right to pay who they want. You’re basically allowing owners to write out lineup cards.
“Sorry, Chris Davis, you’re on the bench again today.”
“But skip, I feel fine. I’m ready to go!”
That doesn’t even account for the fact that you’d basically be pulling pay from all injured players.
I’d rather MLB teams have the right to drop a player and have that players salary taken off the books. Won’t ever happen, but vastly overpaid players, like Davis, are part of the problem.
MLBPA should reject this, remember just last week when owners rejected the MLBPA offer and there was reportedly “no counter offer in sight”. MLBPA has the leverage! Worst case scenario the owners sweeten the deal or they don’t play at all and then who stands to lose the most amount of money???? Duhhhh, yeah it’s the owners!
Eliminating draft pick compensation really screws the Reds. They won’t be able to get compensated for Trevor Bauer and/or Nick Castellanos.
I think that line is misleading. My understanding from what I read on ESPN. Is that the team losing the player would get a compensatory pick, but the team signing him wouldn’t lose one of its picks.
yeah, i read that, too.
good. it should always be like that.
Disagree. It helps to keep the big market teams in check
If you look at the teams that have actually received compensation picks, it’s been the bigger market teams who have no problem making an $ 18 million offer to a pending free agent player. They can then go out and sign another expensive free agent player and pocket the comp pick. It’s not working like it was supposed to work.
if the small market owners don’t pocket shared revenue they certainly can sign some good players.
no it doesnt. It just hurts small market teams.
The players should take proposal than use it as leverage in the next cba
not sure how they use losing to get more.
BOYCOTT BASEBALL AND ALL ITS OVERPAID CRYBABIES!!!!!
You would do the same thing if you were in their position. Don’t even lie and say you wouldn’t.
I wouldn’t and I am 100% not lying. I would play the game of baseball professionally for any amount of money at or above my current salary which is substantially less than the current minimum salary in MLB..
Bro it sounds like you just need someone to talk to.
hiflew, you aren’t talented enough to do what they do. That’s the problem with many people in this country. They think to eliminate a certain segment of the population would create better job opportunities for them. But it won’t because these individuals still won’t have the ability to do those jobs.
Dudes a muppet head clown
You don’t know me. You have no idea how much talent I have. I’m not claiming to be an All Star ML talent, but I played in college. I doubt i would thrive by any means, but I wouldn’t embarrass myself either. ML players are very talented, but there are plenty of current and former amateur players that have talent as well.
There is no one that is irreplaceable in any job. No one.
Go sign up. You have that capability.
Yea side with the billion dollar owners over the guys who can make a couple million. uhhh right.
It sounds like you are siding with the players simply because they have less money. I hope you are never in a position to arbitrate anything higher than a pie eating contest.
You might be the only person on board with this. Good luck.
I have no sympathies for either side. Baseball was the national sport at one time, hands down. Now that both sides are are bleeding all they can from the fans, it’s time to stop watching.
The main reason players are doing this isn’t because Gerrit Cole wants to make $20 million instead of $15 million. They’re doing this because minor leaguers, unless you sign a fat signing bonus, most are making less than you probably do per year and less than minimum wage. Getting called to the majors lets most get that league minimum salary which can be life altering.
@mlb 1225
Let’s face it, most of us could get an extended paper round, buy a pimped up bike, and still earn more than you get in single A ball.
That – to me – is a situation that has to change, or MLB will continually lose athletes to other sports, especially in the US.
You mention getting called up is life altering, and competition is obviously key, but should it be that dramatic a difference between AAA and a league minimum utility role? We all talk about AAAA type players, how insanely frustrating must that be? Knowing you’re a sparrow’s fart away or just in the wrong organisation, where a tanking team would pay you and play you for your .220 for a season or two at league minimum?
I can’t expect players who have witnessed a continual culling of their team-mates from ages 18-24 and onward to be particularly mindful of such a ruthless system, especially where playing through injuries might be concerned.
Theres actually a degree of logic to that. Without owners, players wouldnt have a venue to showcase their skills and make millions. Without players, owners dont have a product to sell for billions. Without fans, none of them make crap. Maybe they need to be reminded of that
And I’m sure you would be the same person saying there crap and greedy. But still would be the same person that would want an autograph if you see a player.
Yeah a few months of no fans won’t affect. That money doesn’t go to the players. Those go to charities, workers that serve your beer.
If you want to boycot go ahead. Once baseball is up people will watch.
If you think players are greedy sure whatever. Might be a few I suppose. But don’t assume all are same. And how much they also had to work to even get to that level. Minor leaguers get paid crap. Your lucky to have any extra cash if you got drafted with a good chunk of change.
Don’t forget this guys are also having to risk their life’s with all this. A lot are in high risk. Just because there Ball players don’t mean they are healthy either. Why should their paycheck be cut to a very extreme. When they had already agreed for a pay cut. No owners want more of a cut?
The stockers at your grocery store are taking a lot more risk than ballplayers would, and for $8-$12 an hour rather than six or seven figures (even eight)! Don’t make it sound like players are paupers.
Sure if they could play with a mask
Who says ballplayers can’t play with a mask on?
I don’t think there will be a 2020 season. Owners and players don’t seem to be looking at the long term health of their sport.
Even if they play this year it would be a meaningless season of glorified exhibition game played in empty stadiums. I don’t know why anyone would be excited by that prospect. The real story is the lack of serious give-and-take between the sides setting up a strike/lock out in 2021-22, in other words, a repeat of the disastrous 1994-95 seasons. The plan seems to be shoot foot, reload, repeat.
“y’all got anymore of that baseball?” -Tyrone Biggums… probably
It wasn’t me Rhonda!!
This season is dead in the water because of these greedy scumbags.
Just call it quits. It’s obvious the owners and players don’t want to play this yr. They care more about 1 yr of money than they do about the sport that is already dying as it is. Keep up the good works chumps.
sooooo, the players wouldn’t want to play…. why? How would they get this 1 yr of money if they’re not playing??
If they wanted to play, they’d be in spring training right now. The owners and players both are more concerned about the money this yr than they are about the state of the game this yr and beyond. Their selfish and short-sighted. How hard is that to understand?
Players just want what was promised to them in contracts
and what the owners agreed to 3 months ago.
Circumstances have changed since the original proposal. You may wanna refresh yourself on everything that has since changed.
This is why I switched from being pro player to pro owner. Even getting rid of the Draft Pick Compensation (,a long time goal of the Players Association) is not good enough. They want unilateral surrender.
The offer is almost the exact same in terms of money they would be getting. Why would around 700 players agree to a deal to benefit maybe 6 guys who wouldn’t be qualifying offered?
See Craig Kimbrell and you understand why the players want the pick gone. Not to mention teams like the Yankees who can afford big contracts. Teams like the A’s either trading their best players for penny’s was n the dollar or losing them for nothing? Screwed
See Craig Kimbrell? Him not getting a contract till mid season had little to do with the QA, it’s well known that Kimbrell started the off-season looking for over 100mil and his underlying stats was saying he wouldn’t hold up to the contract. If the QA had anything to do with the collapse of his market he could have signed a prorated 1 year contract and tried again the next off-season.
It is everything about that pick. Which is why he signed after the Draft
Again, it’s only going to impact something around 6 players, and likely even less than that. The group of hundreds isn’t going to take the same amount of money the owners offered the first time, to make sure less than 10 players don’t get QO’d. It’s not like they’re getting rid of it forever.
They want to be paid. That’s not unilateral surrender bro.
In essence, you’re switching to being pro-billionaire. Nice.
I disagree do the owners share the profits when they have great years? Of course not, so why should players share the losses?
Don ‘t forget players will also lose a year of their contract with no money for it… So apparently they don’t care to lose a year with no money and a year older when they try to get another contract. Seems like if your 30 last year, got a three year contract 30M, then get nothing in the say 2nd year you now have one year (2021) then your now reaching 33 at the end and will get even less because of your older now if you get one at all so you cut 10 million and a year of pay off… hmmm not to bright seems to me. throwing 3 to 5m away and getting less 9because of covid downturn or just the way things are with the owners contract decisions) when your older really is bright … hardly
I just finished adding a section on this to the post. That’s a hollow gesture from owners, since the number of QOs this winter would’ve been the lowest of all time. Outside of Mookie Betts and maybe JT Realmuto, the owners aren’t going to risk making a QO and getting locked into a huge salary on their ’21 books after such wide-ranging revenue losses in 2020.
The owners offered to drop the compensation paid for signing free agents before the current CBA was signed, but they wanted an international draft in exchange. A group of latino players came in hard against that. So we now have a hard limit on international bonuses and still have compensation for elite free agents. The universal DH and elimination of compensation paid both seem to be in the cards in the next CBA. If there is one.
Steve, you’ve been biased towards the players the entire time. It’s kind of hard to take anything you say seriously.
Players have to account for lost team revenue from empty stadiums in their calculus. They’re being ridiculous.
if the owners thought they would get stadium full of fans in march they are the dumbest billionaires. they are good liars, though.
When the stadiums are full do the players get a cut of profits? No, owners want all the profits to themselves then share the losses among all.
Yes they do..in thier salaries.
Hawk no. First 3 years the players can make minimum with no leverage to get paid. It’s called a 10 A renewal by owners.
You forgot the word inflated. Their inflated salaries.
Spartan, you sum it up well – owners want the players to absorb the losses from a shortened season, and just on their say what the losses are with no real audit, while the owners never share the profits from a good season. Not much of a partnership!
Fritz..So players have to account for owners losses but owners have never accounted to players with their profits. Almost 10 billion made by owners last year. Your one way street seems naive.
Players and owners both need to account for catastrophic events that alter the structure of a regular season.
Salaries are negotiated based on expectation of a normal season. How much owners made in previous years is irrelevant.
Well then, owners have to account for record revenues which were not shared with players over the past two decades.
It doesn’t work that way.
Each player has a contract rate for 162 games in a regular season. That doesn’t include revenue sharing based on record revenues and never has.
So when revenues decline, that now has to be considered in order for the owners to get players to share the drop in revenue? Nope.
Contracts are negotiated and paid based on the expectation of a regular season of 162 games, ticket sales, concessions, etc.
During a regular season, if revenue fell for whatever reasons, of course it’s all on the owners.
However, the pandemic changed the foundation of how teams earn money. It’s entirely unreasonable to expect a salary or even pro rated salary predicated on a regular 162 game season with fans, ticket sales etc when that’s not the paradigm any longer.
Very, very well said Fritz.
Thanks! In my opinion, the owners should have presented this common sense position as their final offer and walked if the union said no. The revenue game has changed, why let the union make demands as if it’s pre Covid-19?
As a fan, I would absolutely be comfortable foregoing a season or more to end extremely unreasonable labor demands and union blackmail and just as happy to watch Japanese and Korean baseball or even the independent leagues in its place.
This is PATHETIC! A 76-game season at 85% of prorated salary (assuming there are no fans in attendance) is a fair offer.
This SHOULD be mere back and forth haggling over minor details. But instead, due to the selfishness and obstinacy of the parties involved, this has turned into a quagmire.
There were so many benefits of MLB returning to play before the other sports: would have been the only American professional sport playing; could have improved their brand and increased fan base given the good sentiment of returning to play; could have experimented w/ interesting rule changes in a shortened season.
Will be nice to have the NBA and NHL back, and I’m sure that I speak for a lot of people when I say: “I can’t wait for football…”
Comprise should be 75% paid this year and the other 25% deferred at 0%.
Not to mention no draft pick compensation. What the players want is everything for them. Even 82 games @ 100% would not be good enough. They want playoff money, no draft pick compensation, 114 ( or more) games and the right to opt out with pay. Not happening
players already offered 82 games at prorated salary without postseason compensation. and they are worried there might be no postseason anyway.
No they didn’t how do you figure that? This is how playoff share work….
The owners are counting on fans by the playoff… so if not the
players should negotiate totally on that from tv revenue to come to terms…
“Baseball has a players’ pool, the size of which depends on league-wide ticket revenue throughout the postseason. In 2017, the players’ pool was a record $84,500,432, with more than $438,000 going out to the average player on the Houston Astros. Players have some latitude in how they distribute their money by team, and that includes allocating some for staff members and coaches.
The pool is composed of 50 percent of ticket money from the Wild Card games in the American and National Leagues, 60 percent of the first three games of every Divisional Series, 60 percent of the first four games of the League Championship Series, and 60 percent of the first four games of the World Series.
The World Series winner gets 36 percent of that pool and divides it up by shares. The World Series loser gets 24 percent, as do the two LCS losers. The LDS losers get 13 percent, and the Wild Card losers get 3 percent, which was still about $19,000 for one game in 2017.
The Astros had to play 18 games to win the Series, making a full share worth $24,383 per game. You should have your kids play baseball ”
sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/31/16807710/…
The players haven’t made any effort at all to come to a compromise is the issue here. it has been a flat no without any reasonable counter offer.
You don’t have to counter when you have an agreement.
LOL football. Why are you so optimistic there’s going to be football? A full contact sport played in the dead of winter while infections peak? I’m not so sure.
Brother, NFL has been operating business as usual. Their modified draft was a resounding success, they have released the regular season schedule, and are even preparing to have fans in attendance.
NFL had the benefit of time- a luxury that MLB lacked- but strange as it is to say, the leadership of the NFL is just so much more competent than what we’re seeing from MLB. They are a disgrace…
To be fair, the players have “given back” more things in the last two negotiations that Marvin Miller would be in apoplexy. Tony Clarke ain’t exactly Jimmy Hoffa (which is a good thing for Tony Clarke).
These things figure to be very contentious, and there’s almost no chance they serve as a springboard for a new CBA, which every fan wants. As the old line in “Star Wars” goes, “I’ve got a bad feeling about this”.
oh, on that subject, maybe the Death Star is the next wacky 2020 event that was have to deal with. fun, fun, fun!
Billionaires arguing with millionaires. Screw them both. Just cancel the season and be done with it.
Who gets the blame if season is cancelled?
owners’ cheapness.
Federal Gov for dragging their feet re Covid-19.. We’re #1 in deaths and cases–and counting.
Not per capita
lol, commie nonsense. if you need mommy govt to wipe your behind for you, YOU are the problem
teamoron nonsense!
Only 117,ooo people have died from it in the US so far. Some think that’s a lot.
And don’t forget that the cdc’s last year they have approved the total account for 2018 there were 80,000 deaths so for this to be a pandemic there would have to more than double that this year to even be a worth considering. Play off baseball in October should have fans present!!!
owners for setting the stage for such a fight years ago and not opening their books.
Everyone
75 percent pay for less then half the work they would normally do. sounds like a good deal to me.
That’s 75% of their already prorated salaries. Get it?
thanks for clarification. I didn’t realize that.
It’s 75% of 47% for playing the regular season, but only if the playoffs aren’t canceled. Net 35.1%
What’s wrong with the 114 games the players want to play we need to start baseball now
players’ last proposal was 82 games according to espn.
No, 82 was the owners’ first proposal. The players countered with 114. The owners threatened to implement a 50-game season but it would’ve been fully prorated. The 76-game, 75% of prorated salaries is the owners’ latest proposal.
i just read the article 30 minutes ago. hope you do the same. it is about so little difference in games proposed by either side.
No players has always wanted 114 games. But apparently owners want less….
read if you could!
There are formal proposals, and there are proposals that are leaked to the media but never offered.
– Owners talked about 50/50 revenue sharing (without opening their books) but never offered it.
– Owners offered 82 games with a sliding scale from 90% of prorated salaries down to 10 cents on the dollar for salaries above $20 million.
– Players countered with 114 games, prorated salaries, and two years of expanded playoffs
– Players were said to be willing to go to 82 games prorated, but owners never countered their last offer, until today
– Now today’s offer
Yeah, they could play a doubleheader on Thanksgiving Day.
The players need to realize that they have to shoulder some of the loss in revenue too. It’s happening in almost every industry in the country, employees are being placed on furlough, benefits are being cut, bonuses temporarily suspended, etc. If the games are played without fans, BOTH SIDES are going to be hit by a loss, businesses won’t survive without some give by both groups.
I started out on the players side in this, but the longer this goes on, the more I am starting to shift to the owners. It’s popular these days to hate billionaires, but expecting them to have to take 100% of the loss is unrealistic.
Player compensation has never been directly tied to revenue before, when times were good. Why should it be now, when times are terrible? The owners bargained this in the last CBA. If they wanted some downside protection they would have bargained for revenue sharing, but they were greedy. They should shoulder everything. The only thing that makes sense is for players to play for prorated salaries. Maybe there can be some salary deferral from the highest-paid players given the lack of cashflow, but that’s pretty much the only thing that’s fair. Anything less and the owners will have killed their golden goose, and should probably be prepared for massive amounts of lawsuits.
I don’t see any player trying to sue the golden egg that feeds them
i don’t see owners suing players who are cash cows to them.
“Player compensation has never been directly tied to revenue.” – You are correct. This economy and country has also never seen a world-wide crisis as bad as this either since baseball has turned into such a high-revenue product. World War II was the last one, but there wasn’t the same amount of money flowing.
This is unprecedented. To think that we should be operating under the same circumstances as pre-Covid is begging for failure. Both sides need to adapt, and in my opinion thus far the owners have been more willing to than the players. Both sides need to compromise.
Because that’s what’s happening in EVERY business in the world
Both parties are interested in saving professional baseball. The best way to do this may well be to write off the season and work together on a new union agreement.
I’ve made it fine without professional sports and can wait out both sides until they realize without the fans they don’t have anything. They need us more than we need them.
Why aren’t they sitting down and negotiating a deal? It appears that the owners are attempting to paint the players as the bad guys and it seems to be working. I think the owners fail to realize that as this conflict goes on, they are not only losing in the short term but the value associated with owning a baseball franchise is diminishing. The players have a short term perspective since they are done in their early 30s. The owners shouldn’t.
This is true. We are being set up to resent the players, even though we pay to see the players play, not the owners own. From the start ownership has been trying to spin a lost season as being entirely the fault of the players. The owners make sure we know how much the players are paid right down to the dollar, but how much they take away is a deep, dark secret. Works like a charm, on many.
Sure said it right. How much do the owners actually make is the biggest question? They seem to fail to say that or staying quite.
Shhhhhhh
The Dodgers might get David Price and Mookie Betts for a couple million bucks apiece to help them win a world series!
And the Tigers might finally get rid of Jordan Zimmermann for a fraction of his salary in his last year.
One thing that is lost in all of this is the effect this has on the people who live and work in the cities where the stadiums were built. I believe most of these stadiums were built through private-public partnerships. I don’t live in NYC, though I did when the Mets and Yankees stadiums were built, but I still work there and I still pay a payroll tax for NYC.
Granted the games may not even be played there if there is a season, but is the loss to taxpayers quantifiable? Are class action lawsuits against the MLB and MLBPA possible from stakeholders? I think anyone who pays taxes toward building a stadium would be a stakeholder.
The owners are going to ruin the game again.
If there is no season is doesn’t matter who is to blame. Fans will go elsewhere irrespective of blame. They will all lose a fortune.
now that’s a winner i feel
The players could make some money this year or no money this year.
The owners could make some money this year or no money this year.
No you mean lose some money or make some money
No, I meant what I said. I don’t take ownership’s word on their finances for the same reason the players don’t take them at their word.
Then you’re head is in the clouds if you don’t think the owners stand to lose money in a lost season. Blum is correct, you are not. Again.
Where your head is at is pretty obvious.
76 games concluding September 27th when today is June 8th? How is that even remotely possible? It’s going to take a minimum of 30 days before players are even ready to start the season. Not to mention the time needed to approve this. They would be lucky to start by July 15th. That leaves 74 days until September 27th. Good luck.
i dont think the plan was ever going to be a month of ST. its always looked more like 3 weeks, and with pitchers probably still throwing they might not even need that long. add in a few scheduled double headers and you have plenty of time.
Any player that goes into a season that doesn’t get in “game shape” is a fool. Especially pitchers. You can throw and workout all you want at home, but it’s not the same as game conditions.
Looks like some progress is being made. The owners proposal appears more realistic than their original proposal 2 weeks ago. Hopefully the union’s counter proposal will move the 2 sides closer. Remember it will be 2 weeks tomorrow when the negotiations began. Even if there is trust on both sides ( which obviously isn’t the case here), these things take time. I think they get a deal done by Wednesday
There’s way to much pride on both sides someone needs to eat some humble pie and get this done. 75 games is fine now just work out the % of the pro rated salary that should not take that long to do unless you have two babies in the sand box and one is taking his toy home.
Why are they so hung up on having the post season done by the end of October? It has been going into early November recently anyway.
I suspect they are worried about more competition from the NFL and college football the deeper they go into November
They have also stated concerns over a possible second wave of corona virus.
Can’t remember where I read this, but heard that another motive is that they wouldn’t be able to reap money from political ads, which evidently are a huge source of $ during playoffs/WS in an election year, if the playoffs and/or WS happen after the election
The NFL shot themselves in the foot a few years back…and suffered for it. Will MLB do the same? Start the season now OR cancel it now. Summer’s just around the corner and there’s lots of other fun things to do outside rather than listen to millionaires battle billionaires.
As the article points out, this is essentially the same offer, when brought down to dollars, as the one made by the owners before. So, window dressing. At this point, I’m tired of getting played. I blame the owners more than the players, but MLBPA isn’t entirely innocent either,. What I am tired of is this slow motion, PR garbage in lieu of negotiating. Either get in the room, hash it out, or don;’t, and we can all move on to any other sport to watch.
absolutely agree.
When you have stadiums that average 45000 fans why not separate the fans six feet apart in their seating and when they go up to purchase food and drink they wear a mask until they come back down to eat or drink. You should be able to have at least 15000 fans in a game separated with masks or no masks. Why is this not a possibility. There would be some revenue for owners in this scenario.
there is a small faction in society that make sure they don’t follow rules and regulations.
The Florida teams, Orioles, Pirates, Royals, Tigers, and the A’s certainly seem to have figured it out.
Why is no one mentioning the fact that fan in stadiums seems way more likely now than just a couple of weeks ago. If thousands can gather at the Ozarks, or at massive rallies screaming, and yelling on top of each other, there is ZERO reason fans cannot attend games, which drastically changes the financials. There was ONE case of Covid-19 at the Ozarks in that viral video. Just one case…And zero evidence of any spread. Owners need to agree to an 81 game full-prorated season, and this gets done in a heartbeat.
You still need to wear masks or separate 6 feet apart at least for the first month of baseball. There finding more cases the virus on the marchers now and they’ll have more in another week or two.
most police officers are not donning masks.
It’s as simple as signing a waiver as you enter the facility. Plus, lets stop pretending this virus is what we worried it would be three months ago. No one is forced to attend a game. Open up some sections where people can sit close together, and reserve other sections for people that desire more space between them and other people.
Covid-19 death rates have plummeted, and will continue to drop. I don’t know how anyone could watch those protests and the lake of the Ozarks video and still believe this virus is what we thought it was when desigining the 6 foot social distancing rules.
Bogus. Everything you said here is wrong. Stop spreading disinformation.
No, everything 463 is saying is correct, Mr. Blue Skies. But go ahead and keep believing the media narrative you’re being spoon-fed, if you like. Gullible people like you are to blame for this bogus crisis getting out of hand. There is no danger in having fans attending games. They’re trying to take away our freedom and our very way of life, and you believers are playing right into their hands. Wake up and realize that the news is just a TV show. It’s not really news at all. It’s what they want you to believe so that they can control you. And it’s working on probably 90 percent of you brainwashed mask-wearers.
None of it was correct, not any of it, and your repetition of this blatant disinformation won’t make it any more correct. We are not living in the Middle Ages when contagious diseases weren’t understood. At least most of us are not.
@Blueskies_LA so COvid-19 deaths are not plummeting in the United States? It’s insane you have such little self respect you just make up lies to fit your narrative. The CDC and WHO have BOTH said in the past week that Asymptomatic spread of Covid-19 is incredibly rare. The Missouri Health Director reported on Friday that there was NO EVIDENCE OF ANY SPREAD OF COVID-19 at the Lake of the Ozarks where that viral video came from. NONE. Stop making up things just because you don’t want the virus fear to go away.
I won’t discuss science with people who don’t believe in it.
?
Today, from senior white house correspondent Christian Datoc- “Dr. Deborah Birx’s data suggests that national coronavirus cases have stabilized, and today shows the lowest coronavirus mortality rate since March”. That is literally the scientist that probably has spent more time on the data than anyone else. You are an idiot.
You can’t discuss something you have no business talking about, BlueSkies. You know nothing, prove you know nothing day in and day out, and once you’re called to task you come up with a “bogus” way out to save yourself.
Admit you are wrong, we will forgive you, we will move on. Thanks.
Total garbage coming from the usual sources. Not even people living in countries where education is the exception believe in the crap you are spreading.
There’s the possibility of lawsuits if they bring in the fans next to each other and they end up with the virus or die. That’s the main reason. However my first plan should work with separation and masks for now.
Yup. Wonder what excuse not to have fans there will be now that people have been spilling into the streets.
This proposal will get through.
Sorry if this is a dumb question/idea, but if baseball wanted to revolutionize, couldn’t the Union self-fund (either through an independent savings which may or may not exist) or through member donations/ investments establish new franchises? As outlandish as it all seems, with minor league contractions, there would be stadiums available to play in in less populated cities. And while immediate return on investment may be a little light, wouldn’t ppl be more interested in watching the Clayton Kershaws and Justin Verlanders etc than whatever is left in “traditional MLB” and on the Orioles etc? My thought would be over time, a player own/ run league could out produce the Franchises.
If the money’s not there playing without fans, then just cancel the season. I wish the players the best of luck next season that are arbitration eligible…owners will/should be asking for salary cuts due to lost revenues. FA’s, this will be great. They’ll be offering Mookie 5 years $100 mil. Sorry Boras, we can’t go longer or offer more in case Covid comes back.
The owners will win this battle. They are just prolonging the inevitable which is a 50 game season where they minimize their losses.
Boras should not worry about his coffer he has multi millions stashed away. I would never do business with him but unfortunately he brings in the big bucks and in most cases highly overpaid for the players, especially pitchers with all the TJS going on.
if billionaire owners don’t have enough savings to ride over this crisis they are dumb and greedy.
Clearly you don’t understand how finance and wealth accumulation works. No one individual keeps that much capital on hand. This is probably the dumbest thing to do. Especially since the interest rates on savings are so low. No one, even regular people should keep money in a savings account. This is 20th century economics that has no place in a 21st century world.
Of course, the wealthy understand this (the reason they keep their wealth). Do you ever wonder why billionaires buy more homes than they can live in? It’s to grow their money faster than a low-bearing savings account. The same for why they purchase many business.
No billionaire has, say, a billion dollars in cash. The money would be worth less in the future. And now that the Fed and the government have increased monetary velocity inflation is about to get worse.
Get a grip and take off your “I hate the rich” blinders. Your view is not how the world works. .
doesnt matter how much cash they have. if their net worth is in the billions then they have more than enough assets to sell to get the cash to pay the players. if they dont think its worth it then they can go and sell the team instead. im sure plenty of shrewd investors would love to buy low on a pro sports team right now.
ever heard 30% of your wealth on cash or cash-able investment? financial advisers always preach. even my college finance 101 professor told us so.
Of course I’m familiar with this but it is antiquated in many respects. No billionaire has this. Bezos is worth, for example, $149.4 billion. Do you think he has $45 billion? Sure he can sell stock but then he may lose ownership control. Even if you look at big corporations such as Apple. They have slightly less than 20% but they are being criticized for hording cash.
30% is advisable for the middle class, but billionaires just don’t have this.
Now, someone said they can sell of assets. This is true, but most of their items cost quite a bit and take time to sell. How long do you think it takes to sell a $30 million house? It could take a year or longer. So, if owners can’t sell stocks (the quickest way to get cash) then it will take time to get cash that is not a loan from a bank. Some may even be reluctant to sell stocks since they will take a decent tax haircut on those sales.
Please note my view is not pro-owner or player. I only state this since many on this board on under the assumption that owners can simply make this work and I don’t think it’s possible for every if not most teams. Both sides, in my opinion, are going to have to compromise.
There’s three sides to this equation and I don’t understand two of them.
One is afforded monopoly protection but pretends they’re operating in a free market. Their place of business is paid by the taxpayer. They guard their finances from public scrutiny but release their payroll data. Yet hasn’t “figured out” how to produce a competitive product.
Another that hasn’t figured out they’re being manipulated and receiving the short-end of the stick. Yet keep on handing over their cash.
The third? Yeah. I get it.
This is what bothers me.
Owners are subsidized, the players aren’t. The players have every right asking for what they’re asking.
Sorry, don’t feel bad for the owners, who basically repackaged a crappy proposal and put a different bow on it. Still stinks. But as long as they are talking I guess there is still a little hope for a season.
So let me get this straight.
In an industry that made at least 10 billion last year, there is no way for the two sides to compromise on about $300-400 million?
This is terrible. Manfred should’ve been let go after the Atros disaster, now this.
How about this. Stick with the owners 75% proposal with one modification. If any fans are allowed into the parks this year, that revenue is split 50/50 with the players. Between this and a share of playoff income, they should come close to getting 100% of their pro-rated salaries. If 40% of revenues comes directly from fans, the owners are taking losses this year. This would help split the risk between both parties. Let’s get it done!
it is the 75% of prorated salaries.
That’s a fair point from which to begin negotiating the details.
@Dorothy, decent proposal if fans were coming back this year. But, they aren’t coming to the games this season. Not a chance. Too much risk. Further, local/state governments aren’t going to allow that many people to gather again any time soon. So, the MLBPA is wise not to expect any revenue from tix sales this season
Well the players union is complaining about this exact fact. Some states have already discussed allowing 25% of stadium capacity into games so there is some momentum behind fans being able to watch some baseball this year in person. All part of splitting the risk between owners and players.
I’m beginning to think that MLB’s biggest potential contribution to helping America change for the better right now could be to not play and stay off the Nation’s stage.
MLB is a distraction from reality when reality needs fixing.
Billionaire owners who won’t pay their seasonal workers poverty wages while refusing to release them from contract.
How is that even possible?
The A’s only reversed that decision only because of public outcry. Nats, too. Why is David Price paying the wages of the LA Dodgers employees?
Monopoly League Baseball needs to be checked too.
MLB is making all the wrong moves because that is who they are.
I am beginning to accept no baseball this year… instead of building hype about a season they are doing the opposite with these proposals. What I don’t get is this…. Yes the owners don’t like losing money, but how much would they truly lose just giving the players their full pro-rated salary? Losses today could be gains in the future if baseball took advantage of playing before the NBA, NFL, etc when fans are starved for some of the major sports.
Stupid is as stupid does. we again have Millionaires fighting with Billionaires and if this deal is not done by Midweek or the 15th . I say Scrape the season and make them both walk with there tails between there Legs and Suffer the results .We have the japanese league that will start and The Koreans are playing right now . But Only In America can w3e have these issues .
I’m becoming a cpbl fan
This millionaires vs billionaires argument is missing the bigger issue.
Equating professional baseball players with millionaires is like equating Americans with billionaires. Yes, Mike Trout does well financially but he is an exception. Yes, Bill Gates does well financially but he is an exception.
“The average salary for a minor league baseball player, whose contract is handled by Major League Baseball, ranged from around $6,000 in Single-A to around $9,350 in Double-A to nearly $15,000 in Triple-A in 2018, according to The Athletic. Those wages cover only the months of the regular season. Players are not paid during spring training or in fall leagues.”
Mike, will resolving the current dispute in favor of players help minor leaguers be paid better?
No.
I wouldn’t say that the health and well being of the Minor leaguers is a consideration of either party at this point.
taxi squad players might benefit.
They’re not arguing for milb’s money!?!?
I agree. That’s why the minor leaguers are getting poverty wages. They do not have a voice at the table for change. Just like baseball fans do not have a voice at the table for change.
Fans will have to voice their disapproval in other ways.
fans have no voice in discussion because rob manfred got rid of message boards. the worst commish the world has ever seen!
Fans always have a voice. It’s called never attending or watching a game until real change happens.
The biggest problem is the owners are scared to death of only making a few billion this year. Players think they are immune to the economic harm of COVID. Thats not saying because Joe Doe or any other American is financially harmed, they should be too. Baseball is going to be effected financially by this and the players are completely tone deaf to that. They are not immune.
Baseball needs its own governing commission. The Commissioner position is a stoolie for ownership. He should remain the owner’s spokesperson just like Tony Clark speaks for the players. But the Institution of Baseball needs its own spokesperson, someone who considers the whole enchilada and fights for the betterment of the Institution. Certain past commissioners like Bart Giamatti and Fay Vincent seemed to love the game itself rather than the politics of it all.
The players demands are so inflexible, they fall somewhere between Black Lives Matter “The only solution is revolution” and Don Vito Corleone “I have an offer you can’t refuse.”
Who would govern this independent commission? Congress? The President? They get along so well. Who would be acceptable to both sides? Sadly, Solomon is dead
Dead baseball.
Maybe in 150 years, someone can try to make this a professional sport again
Whatever. I hope they never play a game again. With everything going on in the country today hearing millionaires and billionaires squabble about money makes me sick.
A 75-85 game season is still possible today. There can be about 90 days of regular season baseball, assuming a 3 week spring training. I think the players’ idea of extending the postseason into late november/december is a non-starter due to COVID.
I didn’t realize it until some of these articles mentioned that the commissioner can unilaterally create a 50 game season, but the owners have all the leverage. As the article mentions, they can simply wait out the clock. If no deal is struck in the next few weeks, 50 games will be the maximum number of games that can be played anyway. What are the players’ options?
1) Keep proposing ridiculous December playoffs scenarios that MLB will never accept.
2) Negotiate within the 75 game parameters. Countering with 90% pro rata, or 100% with no playoff money. Something along these lines that gets players the most money they can get the owners to agree to. This is probably how the players will get the most money and it’s best for fans. However, it means playing nice with ownership and I don’t think the players are in a mood to do that.
3) Accept the inevitability of a 50 game season. Don’t come to an agreement with ownership. With this option, you can tell the players that the two sides never agreed to a deal and the owners are forcing you to play.
4) Player’s Strike. I personally think this is their worst option. Right or wrong, the majority of the public will see this as the players refusing to play over money.
If there was a strike, I might be on the players’ side, depending on how unreasonable the owners are being. This offer is never going to fly, since it’s the same offer, more or less, that they’ve already made. Bump it to at least 90% of the pro-rated amount and I think the players would at least consider it. This deal is DOA.
Yeah it’s a negotiation so of course the players won’t accept the owners’ proposal as-is. I don’ t think 90% is actually going to happen, but at least it would show signs of progress in negotiation.
According to Passan, today’s proposal will net about the same salary as a pro rated 50 game season (~$1B), but with a potential $443M bonus if the playoffs happen. My understanding is there is no playoff bonus with 50 games at pro rata. I know players like guaranteed salaries, but that’s a 45% bonus.
Big picture, the players are running out of time to get more money than the 50 game season. But at least they can rile up their membership this way.
Can’t be a players strike, because that would require the owners reopening the camps. Owners won’t reopen until they have an agreement with the union. No agreement-no opening. If they decided to reopen without an agreement the players would just show up and be entitled to their full salaries. So the owners can’t open up without an agreement. Basically both sides are boxed in. That’s why they will probably come to some sort of agreement
My understanding is that the march agreement would be in effect and the players would get pro rata. It’s just up to the commissioner to determine the number of games. If the owners decide that they can only afford 50 games at pro rata, then they play out the clock on negotiations until it’s the only option.
I don’t think there is any scenario where the players will get their full salaries.
The players should propose 50% and let’s play ball!
40%
writing this season off. it ain’t happening
Hate all of this BS from the owners. This new offer pays players a hair over 35% of their salaries for working nearly 47% of their normal games. If I were an owner, I’d be in favor of going at least 90% of pro-rated, if not full, for two reasons:
1. The CBA is expiring soon. The players are going to remember how they were treated this year.
2. Some fans are lifers, but they’ll lose tons of casual fans when they could have used this opportunity to get bring in more fans, those who no longer have the NBA or NHL to watch (at least for now). They’re so concerned about this year that they have no long-term view in mind.
Owners stand to lose over $4B (full season) if no fans are allowed in the park. Why should they pay full salaries If they are losing 40% of their revenues? Baseball teams do no have 40% profit margins. If they did, they’d be worth $3B – $5B+ in value (simple economics). I don’t understand why the players are so intent on getting their full, pro-rated salaries when their industry is losing so much income. This wouldn’t happen in any other type of business, period. There would be massive layoffs, office closings, expense reductions, etc. Since baseball can’t lay-off players or close down teams, they have to reduce salaries to make the season economically viable. Owners will lose less if they play zero games than if they play 100 games at full pro-rated salaries. If this wasn’t the case, the owners would have already agreed to the 114 game proposal by the players. While it’s hard to side with billionaires, the players need the owners to stay financially sound in order to reap their own financial benefits in years to follow. Time to make a real counter-proposal (like 80-85% of pro-rated salaries) and realize this is a once in a generation issue that requires unique and uncomfortable sacrifices. If they end up playing no games this year, they will do irreparable harm to their industry and will feel their real economic pain for years to come. MLBPA is being very short sided in my opinion.
The owners claims of losing $4B have been debunked by several well done media outlets including the Athletic, Fangraphs and Five thirty eight.
The only way that MLB is losing money by playing more games is if most of their TV revenue is guaranteed whether or not games are played.
Total TV revenue is $ 5.3 billion, of which 800 million is for the post season.
Total salaries are $4 billion, give or take depending what all is included.
Prorated or paid in full, TV revenue alone is more than salaries, without talking sponsorships. Other operating costs don’t change this equation.
So, if the TV revenue they get for broadcasting games is guaranteed even without games being played, they can lose money per game, but then they need to make adjustments with their broadcast partners.
At zero games, I doubt they get much if any of the revenue, especially for playoffs. Otherwise, they’d just cancel the season.
In the end, yes it is time to make a serious counter proposal.
Probably deferred salaries whether or not playoffs are played. Especially for the highest paid players. The MLBPA has gone to great lengths to protect the very highest paid, which helps a limited few players and their agents. (Aha!) at the expense of the many.
I’d think the players would agree to 40-45% of their salaries. I hope anyway.
Is there a way both sides can lose?
The owners are obviously losing tons of revenue but they’re always going to be trying to squeeze a dollar out of the players.
The stupid players’ association spent years loving that a few teams were handing out objectively irrational contracts and didn’t care that it was absolutely not sustainable. They had exactly 0 concern for players short of free agency because a dollar made by a pre-arb player is a dollar not made on the back end of a ridiculous legacy deal by former star who runs his broken down husk of a body through the MRI machine more than he takes the field.
If the top were capped a bit and some of the money that gets sunk into these huge deals almost guaranteed to be bad on the back end was diverted into the time when most players will peak (the first six years), players would be able to cash in while they can and teams would have more long term cost certainty. None of them owners care about AAV of a deal if they’re confident they’re going to have the player that they’re paying for, it’s that most teams don’t have the kind of revenue it would take to miss on a big FA deal and still compete.
I never thought I would miss Bud Selig but he looks like Kenesaw Mountain Landis compared to Manfred.. Manfred is way over his head… He F’d up the sign stealing punishment and now he’s let this fiasco drag out..
MLB could have a strong commissioner if they wanted one.
Bottom line: The owners saw a chance to use the pandemic to try to break the union.
So far, it hasn’t gone as well as they had hoped.
Their attempt to get a bigger slice will more likely result in a smaller pie.
Why would the owners expect players to get less of a prorated salary when revenue declines?
Do the player’s contracted salaries increase when the owners get new stadiums? New TV contracts? Increased attendance?
The purpose of a contract for a professional athlete is to provide long term security.. This comes at a cost- they might have lost out on a higher salary if owners start making more/spending more.
Asking the players to give up more than their prorated amount is a sleazy tactic by the owners, and I believe they will pay for it in the long run.
Yes, the players do end up getting more money when the league makes more money. The contract sizes increase, the CBT threshold moves up and owners spend more money on their product.
The owners have offered revenue sharing to the MLBPA multiple times and it has been rejected as they feel it would result in a salary cap. So the owners are willing to share more money when they make it, but the players aren’t willing to accept the risks of losing money when revenues go down. The MLBPA is by far the worst union in all of sports and I see a lockout coming next year if they continue to be unreasonable in the next CBA negotiating period. They are going to kill their own golden goose.
The luxury tax threshold is negotiated, and has not increased commensurate with revenues. Nor have player salaries increased with revenues.
The current leadership of the MLBPA is not nearly as strong as they used to be. Manfred has been kicking their asses the past two CBA’s. They’ve resisted a salary cap, yet they effectively have one with the luxury tax forcing literally every club that was over to duck under it at least for a year.
You are splitting hairs. Of course contracts signed AFTER a revenue increase will be higher. But let me ask you, can you give me an example where an owner gave more money to a player who is in the MIDDLE of their contract? Because right now owners are asking them to take less in the middle of their contract, due to lower revenues, and that’s not right.
New contracts signed from now on may very well be based on decreased revenue. But you have to be a man of your word and honor existing contracts,
I can’t see a season happening, and if that is the reality I’ll be forced to get into ***shudder*** basketball or hockey.
So if the players refuse to play with whatever is offered, is that considered a strike?
No because the collective bargaining agreement is still in place. CBA’s can only be modified by agreement on BOTH sides. Unless the CBA has an “act of God” clause in their contract giving owners right to unilaterally abrogate the agreement, any changes would have to be negotiated. If the owners had the power they would have used it by now
Geotheo, it’s been reported (forgive me, I don’t remember where) that the CBA does indeed contain a “force majeure” clause which is what allows Manfred to institute the 48 games, for example, should he choose.
There is a force majeure clause in the CBA which allows MLB to cancel the entire season in the event of a national emergency. Since POTUS has declared such an emergency, that came into effect, giving rise to the March agreement.
The 48 games- partial schedule comes from the March agreement which says:
“MLB will propose a schedule “using best efforts to play as many games as possible, while taking into account player safety and health, rescheduling needs, competitive considerations, stadium availability, and the economic feasibility of various alternatives.”
So, if MLB imposes a 48 game schedule, it must be based on that being “as many games as possible” and they would point to “economic feasibility”. The players would almost certainly file a grievance and demand evidence that more games are not feasible. In other words, open the books.
MLB wants to avoid this, yet they still haven’t made a serious proposal for the players to accept a shorter season. This is what could be on the horizon.
Thank you!
There is a factor underlying these negotiations that isn’t drawing a lot of attention.
We’ve now seen MLB owners twice threaten to offer something that they then backed down from.
– They were all set to offer “revenue sharing” 50-/50 but without opening the books
Instead, they made the 82 game offer with sharp reductions from the prorated salaries
– They were said to be set on a 48 game schedule, but instead offered 76 games, at what winds up being about the same amount of money.
There is a very good reason why they backed off both proposals.
Both would require them to open their books. In the former case, they’d have to open the books to show what revenues came in to divide them. It was a bluff that they knew would not fly. In the latter case, imposing a 48 game schedule would result in a grievance, with discovery that would require they open the books to prove that a longer schedule- which they have now proposed twice- was not possible economically. That discover is of significant value to the players. More than making a few more dollars for a truncated season.
The players have remained steadfast in rejecting the owners’ efforts to “negotiate” a deal for about one third of their regular salaries, without having to open the books. This is the game within the game. The players have essentially called the owners’ bluff. Even if they did not prevail in the grievance, which they might, the discovery would be interesting.
I’d prefer the whole season be cancelled instead of these silly b.s. media games the owners are playing. They truly are banking on the general idiocy of the public and its need for distractions…and too many “fans of the support” are falling for it.
I’m going to use my personal scenario as a UAL aircraft MX mechanic when. I work it’s prevailing wage whether I got work or not work however like MLB the owners income is severely Restricted so come Oct 1 there going to be a RIF of about 30% across the board unless things get better quick & that not likely to happen Now MLB already going to a 30 man team va 40 & unless your on the 25 man roster ur getting a minor-league pay scale most likely so prevailing wage estill prevailing wage why cuz your skill level is that the show Ual is going to take a bit a big one but the company / Team will come out the other side ok but all employees/ Players only get a limit time to make there money unlike the owners/Company eventually still fully recover and prosper with a different set of players/MX technicians so I to am making I get the best till I can because my family depends on me to look out for there interest so Bottom line no prorated salaries but to those making the big contracts u need to help out ur Union Brothers that get laid off or cut don’t depend on the owners that gives them leverage look after your own at least till a new contract is negotiated for even the small market teams have bean counters to help them recover as for the minor league they need Union representation especially going forward & this next year is the time to make changes because the people do need Baseball & everything is on the table for next year cuz it’s contract negotiating time. I wish you the best I hope to see y’all soon we can play some ball & the fans need to remember that MLB owners are really big corporations even the steinbrenners it’s just a family-owned corporation it’s the same thing they really just don’t ever have to open there books except to the IRS “now there’s an idea”
So players are getting 37.5% of their full salary for about 37.5% of the games being played as long as the playoffs play out. The schedule seems to be quick to ensure crust happens. Seems pretty fair to me.
That**+
No, they’re getting 75% of their salaries. The owners first offer was 21% of tbeir pay
75% of prorated salaries if there is a post season
50% of prorated salaries if there is no post season
76/162=.47
So, your math is a bit off.
This is still a garbage proposal.
I usually am on the owners side, but not now.
Get fans in the stands, use the expanded playoffs.
note, to both sides, PLAY BALL>
Owners are now falling on their collective sword. This proposal provides for roughly 5% more TOTAL money to players, while having them play roughly 50% more games.
I’m almost never on players’ side, but this new “offer” just plain insults intelligence.
This pretty well assures there won’t be a season.
Most businesses aren’t offering work at all for their contract workers. Zero. 25% rollback looks pretty good in comparison.
Interesting point, but here’s the difference. Lets say for example, I work as a roofer and have a contract to work on someone’s house. The day before I am supposed to start a tornado sweeps in destroying the house. In that case the contract is null and void since I can’t perform the work. In the case of MLB, the owners have already said they can play 82 games. Since the players are willing to live up to their contract and perform the services they agreed to, they are entitled to the terms of the contract. If however, there is a sharp spike in COVID-19 cases, MLB can shut down on the basis of public health. In that case the players would not be entitled to their full salary since they are unable to perform their services
If the season is shut down the players get zero so is there some benefit for the players to at least try to work out some proposal?
75% is better than 50% or less with their first offer 21% only. Players need to take this deal
75% of the pro rated salary for the number of games played during the regular season. They are at 76 games now, Union wants 81 games. Owners are offering 50% not 75% of the pro rated salary.
Did you read the article it says players get 75% of there salary for 78 games. The owners offer was only 21% for 81 games.
There is a force majeure clause in the CBA which allows MLB to cancel the entire season in the event of a national emergency. Since POTUS has declared such an emergency, that came into effect, giving rise to the March agreement.
The 48 games- partial schedule comes from the March agreement which says:
“MLB will propose a schedule “using best efforts to play as many games as possible, while taking into account player safety and health, rescheduling needs, competitive considerations, stadium availability, and the economic feasibility of various alternatives.”
So, if MLB imposes a 48 game schedule, it must be based on that being “as many games as possible” and they would point to “economic feasibility”. The players would almost certainly file a grievance and demand evidence that more games are not feasible. In other words, open the books.
MLB wants to avoid this, yet they still haven’t made a serious proposal for the players to accept a shorter season. This is what could be on the horizon.
This is what the article above says:
The latest attempt by the league to return to play would see a 76-game season that pays players at 75 percent of their prorated contracts and concludes on Sept. 27.
Seems they are close enough to get a deal done if both are acting in good faith. 75 percent of salary, Split 50/50 a tv deal for a one-off extra playoff round.
MLBPA should propose:
– 82 game season from July 3 to October 4
– 16 team playoffs, first round best of 3 at home of higher seed
– 50% of salaries, $100M pool for playoffs (was 88 M last year with 10 teams)
– Salaries above $10M may be deferred 12 months at 1%
– Salaries above $20M may be deferred 24 months at 3%
– 2021 payrolls must not decrease (if a full season is played)
– 10 round draft
– Universal DH permanently
– Angel Hernandez gets fired
Good article. It got all of us talking and debating. Much like the players and owners, no one is right or wrong in the discussion. Opinionated? Yes, very much so. MLBTR is doing a fantastic job because this thread has entertained me for the past hour lol. Thanks Steve!
Patrick OKennedy
If they don’t have a season this year, how much of each Players Contract will the Owners have to pay?
Since the Players agreed to the first Prorated offer, would that stand, or would the owners be held responsible for 100% of each players current contract?
The players did agree to work so the owners are responsible to those contracts this year, correct?
If there was no season, the players get the $170 million payment that was made as part of the March agreement.
If the owners impose a shorter season, say 48 games, the players would be paid 48/162 or 29.6 percent of their salaries.
In the case of a unilateral setting of the schedule, players would very likely file a grievance and ask the owners to prove that more games are not economically feasible.
I can’t see the owners just canceling the season, as they would lose billions in TV revenues.
Thanks,
I thought the Owners would have to pay the players even if there was no season since a contract would still be binding. I also thought since the players did agree to the owners first offer, that one would now be binding until a new agreement is reached by both parties.
I hope they do come to an agreement, I think the first one is fine plus I think some of the games will be played with fans in attendance. I am also worried about a second break out of the Virus later this fall so the Playoffs should conclude before November.
3 weeks of spring training to give SP four starts each.
78 games in 88 days – 3 days off per month, plus an extra day off.. Season runs July 6th to Oct 1, last game is a day game.
8 teams per league in playoffs, Oct. 2, 3, 4 at higher seed stadium.
All star game moved to Oct 6th. Oct 5th for HR derby.
90% of prorated salary. All teams share 1/4 of the playoff revenue.
The other 3/4 of playoff revenue is shared only between playoff teams, with the percentages similar to the current way.
Waste of time
If the players agree to the owners demands, then in the future the owners could use that as leverage.
MLB is run by clowns. Neither Manfred, nor any of the owners, seems to understand how to run a business. Among the cardinal rules of executive communications is not to run down your industry, your business, or your employees and partners. Every time any of them has opened his mouth over the last couple of months, he’s violated that rule. And by doing this, they’ve actively depressed both fans’ current interest in the game, and any opportunity MLB has, to expand its fan base in the future. They need to treat both the players, and the fans, as partners in the game’s future, and show, at every step, how far they’re going, to work actively and enthusiastically with both, to get the game going again, play as many games as possible, and create an atmosphere of positivity and excitement. They seem to care less about any of this, than about saving a few bucks in the short term, at the expense of whomever they can squeeze it out of – stadium employees, minor leaguers, major leaguers, the fans who bought season tickets and MLB.TV subscriptions, and haven’t seen refunds. It’s no surprise that most of the owners are trust fund babies, whose attitude about wealth and success is that they’re entitled to both.