Major League Baseball and the MLBPA seem to be progressing toward an agreement on a 2020 season, but there are still obstacles to overcome. The length of a potential campaign continues to serve as a stumbling block, according to USA Today’s Bob Nightengale, who writes that “the mood soured by nightfall with the union seeking a longer schedule.”
There was more hope for peace earlier Wednesday when commissioner Rob Manfred, after a meeting with union chief Tony Clark, said the two sides had “a jointly developed framework that we agreed could form the basis of an agreement.” However, the union remains dissatisfied with the league’s proposed 60-game regular season that would take place over 70 days if it were to end Sept. 27, even though the players would earn 100 percent of their prorated salaries and, per Joel Sherman of the New York Post, a $25MM playoff pool.
The union offered an 89-game season in its most recent proposal, so there does still seem to be a lot of ground to make up. Indeed, the players at least want something closer to 70 games, Nightengale writes, though MLB doesn’t want to risk the playoffs extending beyond October because of COVID-19 fears. Notably, Dr. Anthony Fauci warned against late-October baseball on Tuesday. So, along with season length, health and safety measures are surely at the front of the minds of owners and players. Expectations are that they’ll pick up discussions again Thursday in hopes of reaching an agreement by the weekend, Nightengale reports.
60 + 89 = 149. approx 75 if you average them. problem solved
But there are only 71 days on the calendar
double headers?
pnedwek
There is already an increased risk of injury to due to a shortened and rushed “spring training/June training camp.” Double headers will make the risk of injury worse.
Just play 66 and call it a “season”
I remember when doubleheader’s were very much a normal part of every team’s schedule. I can’t imagine playing a few with an expanded roster would result in a sudden increase in injuries.
They are baseball players. They are going to drop like stones with injuries no matter what. There will be catastrophic injuries and minor injuries and chronic injuries and injuries that make you go huh, how?
Maybe teams and players will be more judicious about rest, and maybe the time away plus the fact there isn’t going to be 162 games to play makes teams innovate where it concerns managing their greatest resource, players.
That’s right, today’s players are made of glass. Quality game is 6 innings giving up 3 runs out less. The complete games is almost as rare as the triple play, 3 out closers, 215 inning pitchers are “workhorses” and since strikeout rates among hitters are at an all time high, they no longer run the bases as often to make outs. Teams are going to be carrying 30 players on the roster. THEY CAN PLAY DOUBLES HEADERS
Ernie Banks is rolling in his grave. Come on guys, let’s play two!!!
30 man roster with 20 additional players tied up in the basement on standby. Should be able to keep everyone “baseball healthy”
This isn’t really fair. If Verlander got to face those old lineups that had 4-5 easy outs in them he’d pitch a complete game almost every time too. When you can sleep through most of the hitters on the team you can go a lot deeper into games, especially when they are all trying to put the ball into play early in the count.
Time for expansion to dilute some of that offense.
well the league is gonna have to cave a bit there. honestly with the numbers we’ve seen lately I dont know if there is any difference in the virus’s virulence by time of year.
I agree with Darkside to an extent. What’s to say October will be worse than now? But, also don’t think going beyond October is smart for numerous reasons. I live in WI and it was snowing on Halloween this year. And football will dominate weekend games.
Football might be in for a very rude awakening this fall…with proximity (close contact sport that it is) being its main adversary. Covid is going to run its course whether ppl believe in it or not…mother nature always has a way of showing any human being…as to who actually runs the planet.
It is pathetic what pro team sports have turned into, and MLB is easily the worst of the lot.
Instead of rooting for teams and the players on them, we’re supposed to take sides for the owners or the players – and demean and insult the ones on the other side.
This is a sick time in America, with no end in sight.
The positive news is that the ones that have developed fat behinds sitting around eating salty snacks and drinking while passing judgement on others playing sports, now have the time to go out and get some exercise. It’s cheaper, healthier, a good way to meet others, and puts one in a great frame of mind. I think they used to call it: “Living”.
@Sharocko;
Don’t look now, but the Golden Goose is dying.
Lots of things are in the process of changing in America after this pandemic. From the way we work, to products we buy, to how we spend our leisure time.
Let’s just boycott baseball
The sad thing to me my friend…is that some ppl actually think covid is either totally contrived or that it must of magically just disappeared recently because they want to just go on with their lives. Maybe that works in fantasy-land…but not in this reality.
I think they should do the original idea and play in Arizona. There would be no rainouts, and minimal travel so scheduling would be easier.
It only appears that MLB is the worst of the lot. The NBA and NHL both appear to be mor cordial but they had most of their regular season complete and hence the players already earned most of their money.already. Wait until fall if the NFL has to shorten the season. Betting the NFL gets ugly if that happens when money has to be negotiated as well.
The most recent COVID predictions show a September upswing 🙁
I cannot begin to count hpw often the experts have been wrong. It does have to run it’s course and quarantining wasn’t the answer. And I’m sure that prediction is also wrong….that’s my prediction.
Really, it’s that shocking, even as it pertains to a disease that barely came to light only four months ago?
I’ve been hash tagging it for a week now
#boycottbaseball
#boycottMLB
If there’s no season this year over petty greed, I’m not coming back to the game.
Don’t let the door…
You can say boycott all you want. We’re on this site because we enjoy the game moron.
If you start the season one month from today and just play the original schedule you get 65-67 games per team. So there is definitely a way to get it somewhere between 65 and 70 games. 70 would probably be the highest you could go. 65 is probably the easiest way to do it.
But the owners want expanded playoffs for this to work, which means playoffs need to start earlier
I think they are ok with the playoffs going deeper into the season, just not the regular season. The real concern is November causing problems because you have cold and flu season on top of a 2nd wave of covid since everyone is forced indoors. I mean in a perfect world the playoffs start early but I think they can live with them just lasting longer.
Multiple weekly doubleheader’s have been floated around for quite some time now, making it very easy to fit 75 games in 71 days with about 4 off days during the season
60+89/2=75 games, throw in 6 doubleheader’s and you’ve got 81.
@senioreditor that is 1 double header a week and I’d be ok with that if I was a player. They do have the 26 man this year. So that will play into everything as well. If they do go past 81 games, they should increase the roster to 28 man to help with more double headers during a weeks time. With the 26th man and 2 additional players, teams have more options to have 2 pitchers and a fielder or visa versa. I think additional pitcher opens up a 6 man rotation due to the 2-4 double headers weekly. It may reduce the strain on players to have additional hands on deck as well to avoid injuries. It all depends on mangers and coaches to how players are used to prevent injuries in a short season. Poor Astros would be in a bad position with Dusty Baker leading that group. Whole rotation will be on the IR by the 2nd week
Lol typical internet getting everybody’s hopes up
That’s the best comment I’ve read. I simply hate this negotiating crap. Like 1981 and 1994 all over again
Yes, except worse because there was no internet back then. So now with internet and social media we constantly hear about it from the media every minute.
I am with the players over this whole thing. They can get more then 60 games in here. I would hate to see this new deal fall apart of that but it can be done.
If the players will agree to waiving the grievance possibility then the owners might agree to more games. Lets face facts the owners know they will lose the grievance and owe a ton of money. Get above the 75 game mark and start this thing already.
If they agree to a new deal the grievance is no longer a choice. At least no grievance for number of games that is. They only have a grievance if Manfred sets a number without the Unions Approval.
How do you figure they will lose the grievance. You forget the “good faith” part of the agreement that everyone agreed to.
The owners fronted money from the jump, kept upping player percentage to at this point full pay and upped the number of games where they are losing money per game, along with giving them more active players and gave them full service time for a partial season.
What have the players done in “good faith.” lowered number of games and ……. and …. oh yeah and ….. cant forget ….
This is not as shut and close as you make it to be and the fact the players are back show that they know that and that there are implications towards the cba next year.
To me this is simple, the owners are worried about it and from everything I have seen and read the players would win this situation. Matter of fact just a few days ago everything stalled the players seem to make the threat of just starting the short season and all the sudden the owners came back with a deal but wanted them to waive grievance rights.
I dont think ANY bargained in good faith but the real thought of that grievance sure concerned the owners enough to want it to be eliminated. These are smart businessmen with lots of lawyers behind them. Im sure there was a very good reason for that turn.
Bingo…..Open The Books
they do not want to do that
No the players aren’t likely to win, their case is very thin. But even a 20% chance that they could win is enough to turn the idea of playing under that contract very thin. The players don’t have to have a good chance of winning it, just any chance. Plus it is a PR nightmare.
Let’s have a clue! Some say that the owners are lying, others say that they are not making money But the truth is, they still hold on to their business. What does that tell you?
If I own the business and it wasn’t lucrative and losing money I would definitely get rid of it. Wouldn’t you? I think the owners are making money but they are lying and using this covet 19 to run a mockery
I agree that everyone else has no clue about this. No so sure about myself.
I would bet the over on the players winning a grievance if Manfred unilaterally implemented a 50 game season. That simply is not “as many games as possible”.
But it’s not just about the grievance itself, but the discovery that the owners would have to produce in order to back their claim that more games are not economically feasible. They absolutely do not want that as they’re heading into another round of collective bargaining.
Im honestly not sure how anyone can be with the players at this point. Owners are giving in and saying “fine, full prorated salary (even though we explicitly agreed to renegotiate if we play in empty stadiums), and we’ll play 60 games in 71 days…” and players are STILL like “lol nah”
I want more games as a fan. To me thats the goal as much baseball as possible. So Im with the players wanting more games. Id like to get to 75+ games for the season ideally 82.
Owners dont want more games because they are worried about the money aspect of not having fans in the stands more then COVID-19. The owners have made money hand over foot the last 10 years. So one season will suck, so be it.
If you only want more games, then 76 games at 70% pro rata is better than 66 games at 100%.
??
76 x .70 = .53.2
The idea behind more games is to increase total salary, right?
But not as good as 70 games at 100%. They get there, we’ll have baseball.
Should have been clear that I was responding to Red. My point is that if you only care about more baseball, you won’t look at pay at all. The 114 game proposal is best, and the owner’s 76 game proposal is better than 60 something.
Ahh
No, what the owners are worried about is the more games they pay, the longer the season goes on and so then the likelihood of the playoffs not finishing increases. And that’s their cash cow – playoff money.
So then, they wouldn’t mind if the players counter with a 76 game schedule as long as it’s done by Sep 27?
My more game comment was made strictly as a fan of baseball not breaking down the numbers.
Yeah I’m in a similar position. I want more games played but can’t reasonably expect either side to simply ignore the economics given this unusual scenario. I don’t buy into the viewpoint that one side is overtly trying to nefariously utilize a crisis to pull one over on the other (breaking a union vs. opening the books). The players have a reasonable argument that financial risks are for business owners. The owners have a reasonable argument that any business tries to mitigate losses in a bad economic climate and can’t be expected to lose extra money willingly.
They’re both losing money compared with a non-COVID world. The owners claim that they’re losing a lot of money without fans, which I believe should be common sense. It’s understandable that the players can’t simply trust the numbers. The distrust is years in the making and I’m hopeful that this is as bad as the labor dispute gets, due to backlash. Doubtful, but hopeful.
60 games is not as many games as possible as they agreed.
And there are more than 71 days.
Why wait until July 19 to start?
Why wait until June 29 to start training?
Because the owners want as few games as possible.
It’s now June 18 and there isn’t a deal in place. Do you expect them to finalize the deal, have teams report, and resume actual spring training SOONER than June 29?? Please tell us how
They’re ready, man! WTF else they got to do?
The players side is only focusing on a small part of their agreement, which has a very questionable interpretation. But this has been tread over thoroughly at this point. Would a reasonable arbiter
force the MLB to schedule 120 games into late October with a high probability of cancelling the playoffs (late Nov) ?
I doubt it. They don’t have to go into October, but they have to schedule as many games as possible. 60 doesn’t do that.
By the time they have an arbitration, there won’t be much time left.
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
5h
Breaking: MLB and players union are closing in on an agreement to play the 2020 season, via players. Deal expected to be for prorated pay and include expanded playoffs.
if this is true, the league wasted whole month of may and a half of june with % of prorated salaries crap.
yeah, why wouldn’t that be the heart of the argument here?
Did they though? Another user here pointed out that every proposal by the owners came out to paying the players roughly 33% of their yearly salary. If the agreement is for 60ish games of a season that is normally 182 games, the owners got what they wanted, no?
Don’t get me wrong, if that’s the case they should have come out and said, “we are comfortable with paying you 33% of your salary for the year. How do we get a season done?”
A normal season is 162 games not 182.
60/162=37% which is as stands 4% more. I think they will get more games in than 60.
30% isn’t roughly 37%. It’s about 23% more money. 100% of player pay was never on the table after the COVID lockdowns started.
Nice
At least they are talking. Still, not holding my breath.
What happened to just tell us when and where???
Thats for the commissioner to force the league to start. The players will then start the season and file a grievance which will be against the owners. Baseball will be played in 2020 and then in the future either the owners or players would lose the grievance but lots of stuff would come out during that on both sides, likely making them both look bad and if the owners lose they could lose billions. They dont want that to even be a possibility.
The players need to take the deal on the table. There are only 71 days to play baseball. Maybe the league goes to 65 or 66 games and have 2-3 double headers thrown in.
71 is a construct from the owners. “Spring training” could be short or the season could go past 9/27. 71 is not a fixed number. There is an argument to be made its a reasonable number. There are arguments to be made why a shorter training period, or a season past 9/27, is unreasonable. But regardless, 71 is not a set in stone maximum calendar window. Its simply the one ownership put on the table.
With every passing day people are realizing that life goes on without professional sports. If the millionaires and billionaires in all sports don’t put greed aside, they will lose a good number of fans forever.
Mostly baseball Bill, since it’s the only sport “in season “……the NHL and NBA would be wrapping up this week, under normal conditions…
And new fans will replace those fans.
New baseball fans??…from where??
i am going to take my future grandkids to ballgames. for sure. it’s just that i’m not sure if my kids ever get married. ever.
The thing is I have not heard any singular player or as a team come out and say I want play!
To me that is the real problem
Trevor Bauer has. He says many things. Often.
yep, Bauer has done a great job explaining in detail what is going on so fans can understand their side and where they are coming from.
Now I cannot wait to go back not liking him because he pitches for the Reds.
Cue the outrage from the billionaire shills
If they start on July 13th they could play 72 games over 77 days…..A little tight but doable with 28 man rosters
Last weekend I figured they could get in 70 games if they came to an agreement by the 20th.
70 is where I think it will wind up.
They. Are. All. Idiots.
Tired of hearing this crap . Forget baseball this year and think Football.
No guarantee football won’t have issues to sort out too
Fauci can stuff it. As a Canadian we laugh at your media in the US and your so-called “experts”. Everything is so politicized and agenda driven that it really is funny to see from the outside. If you check the Fox News app and then jump to CNN it’s like you are in two different countries. Things are so divided. It’s too bad. I hope things can improve.
Some of us Americans realize that too. CNN and Fox are both full of it. Just on different sides of the aisle
Most Americans know they won’t get the full story from any news source. And the vast majority of us are good and good to others (not unlike our friends up north). Unfortunately the few that want to seriously dislike one another make the most noise and get the most air time.
68 – 72 games would be reasonable and something I think either side could live with.
How about 65?
Nice
I have some respect for the players.
I have little respect for the owners.
I have no respect for the players union.
Id have respect for the players union if they just dropped the word “players” from it
I’d respect them more if they dropped “union.”
If I were the owners, I’d give them 81 games knowing full well the probably of reaching a World Series is small. The way the virus seems to be progressing I wouldn’t be surprised if the league is shutdown before September. I’d hate to see it but this is a real possiblity.
83 percent of prorated salary x 76 games = 38.9% of full salary
100 percent of prorated salary x 60 games = 37.0 percent of full salaries
I can’t see the players agreeing to that.
Also, Joel Sherman reported a playoff pool of $25 million, not 25 percent.
This will get worked out, right now both sides are seeing who will blink first. 64-66 games will be the final number, they are not going to let a 10 game difference ruin these talks.
Dr. Anthony Fauci stated that on Tuesday, he’ll flip flop on that at least twice by Friday.
do you always want to act dumb or are you really dumb?
The lady won’t let me have a beer damn it
Under any other under circumstance I would say there is no way an almost like this falls apart over 10 games, but I can see it happening here. 10 games doesn’t seem like much, but those 1o games are worth a reported $250 million to the players. The players got their pro rated pay, owners will get the 60 games, IMO.
Does anyone really care if they have a season. Players and owners winning about millions while some of us lost our jobs and would be happy with a minimum paying job right now. My life without sports has been great I been spending lots of time with my kids doing lots of home improvement watching some great shows and movies and most important having some amazing sex with my wife. So keep winning mlb I really dont give a crap anymore both sides are selfish aholes that have lots of money while I have friends and family who have lost so much because of this hard times. I gave up the NFL 2 years ago and life was better maybe its MLBs time to go also.
The players and owners are winning. Depending on what your wife looks like we are unable to determine if you have won.
Umm so i love me some sports but they dont normally come in the way of those things you mention. I watch games when i have time. Sports are a way to escape the news cycle or re-watch the same tv shows when you are doing those things.
Yes, it seems yankees2016rebuild is an all or nothing kind of guy.
Don’t let Fauci determine anything. Been wrong at every turn.
Actually he hasn’t. Where do you get your information?
While the administration and their media propagandist did our nation a disservice by calling the virus a hoax, life should go on as normal as possible. People need to work, they need to eat. Yes take all the precautions necessary, get the testing in place but people can’t be expected to stay in their basements indefinitely.
If they can start on July 13 would be 75 games.
If they start July 17 than it would be 72 games.
Each team to play a double header each week and one day off each week a Monday or a Thursday. I’m no brain surgeon why can’t this be done!
and they will take elon musks travel tube between series? And what happens if there is bad weather … what breathing room is there?
My reaction if I were Manfred:
Oh for god’s sake!! I don’t care if Chris Davis cant feed his family on $12 mil!
Can we meet at 75 games and get the season started?
he doesn’t need their permission to do that. He can issue a schedule of whatever length he wants.
Issues are: if its too short the players grieve, opening a massive can of worms for his employers. If its too long Manfred will be the next over qualified executive working at McDonald’s.
This little game of tennis is cute-
The league is so tone deaf I wouldnt be surprised if some of these folks in baseball think the old ” No publicity is bad publicity” mantra still exists here
We are literally watching Americas pastime drown in the swimming pool right now
One thing that I think everybody’s missing, and should be understood and stipulated by all, is that a season that if they start this thing, and have to shut it down and there are no playoffs and there is no championship it would be much more damaging to the health of the game than if there is no season at all.
To that end, they players need to shut up and accept the fact that this season MUST end by Halloween and if the money they’d get from that short a season isn’t enough then they should just be honest about it and force the cancellation of the season.
They were absolutely entitled to their full prorated salaries, and they’re getting that. But if sixty games isn’t enough then to hell with it.
Well, under the latest MLB proposal
– players would not report until June 29
– season would not begin until July 19
– season would end on September 27
Even on those terms, there are 71 dates from July 19 to Sept 27, with 11 days off
AND a 60 game schedule at 100% prorated salary is LESS than the last offer of 83% for 76 games
Yep, gotta be more than 60 games
I want more games. I think we all do. The sticking point will be that the owners are offering $33m in forgiveness of the payroll advance from the March agreement per Jon Heyman. The players said tell us when and where and won the PR war. Players will have to now live or die on that hill, especially considering at 60 games they would actually be getting more that 100% pro rated pay with the forgiveness. I can’t see anything more than 64 games and even that seems unlikely.
Nothing more encouraging than reading something including “mood souring”
This is all much better news than we had on Monday and I’m glad the sides are coming to a resolution.
My new question is what happens in 2021 if there are still restrictions on large outdoor events? Will the owners just have to eat losses from 162 fanless games? If they anticipate that, what does free agency look like?
Wouldn’t it be nice if they sorted that out right now?
You don’t like arguing with me all the time?
I argue for a living!
You’re not getting paid to argue with me!
Haven’t the owners side of the offer generally been towards a similar dollar amount? So is this proposal just getting to the same dollar amount, less games, 100% prorated money? It’s not progress if that’s the case, it’s shifty math to fit your side’s agenda. If the 60games amount is higher than previous and the players are asking for more games, after owners conceded more money, this is on Tony Clark and the MLBPA still seeking out more. 64 games get it done. What are we even doing here? Every passing week is a win on the owners side, I mean how much money is Clark really trying to gain on the players side? 20% more? now a weeks’ worth of games later it’s down to 15% more? Avg MLB salary was like 4.3mil so half would be 2.15mil. 20% of that is 430,000. So now a week later it’s dropped down to 322,500. Keep on waiting, clearly the owners are going to win at this.
Too much to lose not to make it work….they’ll figure it out.
Im so tired of those clown
I own a tire shop in canada i work crazy hard in this stupid virus
So can those sisi boy can play or work like they say an billionaire owners can shut ir up a lithle bit
Instead of sitting an arguing in office whit ac on
It’s funny how some people on here speak as if they actually play for the league.
You can say boycott all you want. We’re on this site because we enjoy the game moron.
Play 69 games and everyone can laugh on their way to the pro-rated bank. Just get a season in, whatever it looks like.
I love how you say that baseball doesn’t want to be on past late October because of Covid. No. They don’t want to compete with football. As it is now they’re gonna have to compete with playoff basketball.
I think it’s both. They don’t want to compete for the TV revenues for sure.