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Blue Jays Looking For Rotation Upgrades

By Steve Adams | August 21, 2020 at 10:26am CDT

The Blue Jays might’ve looked like a potential deadline seller just one week ago, but they’ve rattled off five straight wins to boost their record to 12-11. That, Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet writes, has them back in the playoff picture and thinking about ways to add to the club with the Aug. 31 trade deadline looming. Specifically, general manager Ross Atkins cites starting pitching as an area of focus.

It’s been a rather inauspicious start to the year for the Toronto rotation, which ranks 19th in the Majors in ERA (4.93), 26th in FIP (5.34) and 24th in xFIP (4.84). Further complicating matters is the fact that prized pitching prospect Nate Pearson just landed on the injured list due to tightness in his right elbow after a pair of rough starts.

Lefty Hyun-Jin Ryu has been a solid presence atop the starting staff, giving the Jays five starts and a 3.46 ERA with terrific K/BB and ground-ball numbers. Beyond that, however, it’s been a struggle. Fellow winter signee Tanner Roark has battled uncharacteristic control issues and run up an ERA of 4.76. Pearson’s last two starts were ugly, and Matt Shoemaker has not at all resembled the 2019 form he showed prior to sustaining an ACL tear. Chase Anderson has been limited by an oblique strain and is still building up his workload (though he’s pitched well through 9 2/3 frames).

There’s some depth beyond that group down at the alternate training site, but none of Sean Reid-Foley, T.J. Zeuch or Sam Gaviglio can necessarily be relied upon to stabilize the rotation. The Jays plan to utilize left-hander Ryan Borucki as a reliever for the foreseeable future, per Atkins, which only further limits their in-house options.

The expanded postseason field might drive down the number of motivated sellers, but that should also drive up the number of buyers and create a market for the interesting arms that are out there. Lance Lynn, Mike Minor, Taijuan Walker, Kevin Gausman, Johnny Cueto, Alex Cobb and perhaps Dylan Bundy (among others) could all draw varying levels of interest this year. Nicholson-Smith reports that Gausman was of interest to the Jays before he signed with the Giants this winter.

Given the big-picture status of the Blue Jays — a young club just now beginning to emerge from a rebuilding effort — it’s unlikely that they’d part with anything of particular significance for a short-term piece. It stands to reason that they’d be interested in low-cost rentals or in arms they could control beyond the 2020 season. The rental market, in general, seems unlikely to yield any major returns, given that acquiring teams would only be picking up a month or less in terms of regular-season control over said player (plus any possible postseason contributions).

Atkins also discusses the team’s defensive outlook, his thoughts on Teoscar Hernandez’s upside, Borucki’s future role and several other topics in a broad-reaching piece that Jays fans will want to take in. Nicholson-Smith also suggests that a bench bat with some pop could be a potential target for the Jays, which opens no shortage of additional possibilities as the deadline looms.

As noted earlier when looking at the D-backs’ hunt for bullpen pieces, it’s worth pointing out that any current fringe contender is, to a degree, at the mercy of their next week’s results. A substantial losing streak or additional key injuries could tamp down the motivation to make a win-now trade or even swing the pendulum in the other direction. One could also argue that that reality only increases the urgency to make a move proactively, but recent history suggests that today’s breed of front office will wait until closer to the deadline to gather more information before making a rash move. Perhaps that trend will be bucked in this atypical 2020 campaign, but we’ve yet to see a notable swap throughout the league.

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111 Comments

  1. cptstupendous

    5 years ago

    Blue Jays should be looking for some common sense leadership for the clubhouse. Not looking for the return of Brett Lawrie style leadership, but what we are seeing lately is marginally better.

    Reply
    • Dotnet22

      5 years ago

      What happened to that guy? I remember he was super intense.

      Reply
    • cptstupendous

      5 years ago

      Unfair to call out Lawrie like that (if I can I’d like to take his name out of it). The clubhouse leadership of his era was what was intended.

      1
      Reply
      • clrrogers

        5 years ago

        What?

        Reply
        • cptstupendous

          5 years ago

          Was trying to clarify that it wasn’t just Lawrie. Probably should have just left it as is.

          1
          Reply
    • damhikt

      5 years ago

      Brett Lawrie was a leader?

      Reply
  2. dandan

    5 years ago

    Gausman has been better than I expected with the Giants and I’m actually looking forward to his spot in the rotation every fifth day. Velocity has stayed up and his K/BB has been outstanding. Apparently Zaidi likes him so I doubt he’s going anywhere.

    1
    Reply
    • giantsphan12

      5 years ago

      @dandan, I agree that Gausman has been fun to watch and whose production had been noteworthy. But, why would Farhan not trade him if we got something above “decent” in return? Unless we can extend him mid-season, which is unlikely, once the trade deadline passes, we’ll get nothing for him when he walks in FA. Giants brass should at least be listening to offers, which I’m sure they are.

      1
      Reply
      • dandan

        5 years ago

        Because I doubt the Giants would get a decent return. Short season, FA to be, etc. On top of all that, this year wasn’t the first time Zaidi had tried to acquire him. He really likes him.

        Reply
  3. Modified_6

    5 years ago

    Groshans + Zeuch for Lance Lynn?

    What do y’all think?

    Reply
    • bluejays92

      5 years ago

      If the Jays traded Groshans for Lynn, Shapiro and Atkins deserve to never work again in baseball.

      1
      Reply
    • CanadianJay

      5 years ago

      Absolutely not

      Reply
    • Mike McLellan

      5 years ago

      Is this a joke?

      Reply
      • Modified_6

        5 years ago

        Groshans is in the 80s on some of the prospect boards. Lynn has been killing it for a year now. I don’t understand how a guy with a year and a half left on a cheap deal that has been awesome for an 80s prospect and a guy would be considered a joke.

        Jays are stacked at future positional players and need pitching. Rangers need youth.

        Look what 1 and 2 starters fetch in previous years.

        Reply
        • wild bill tetley

          5 years ago

          Because the Jays aren’t close to contending and won’t be until Lynn is a free agent. Can’t justify that trade. 2021 the Jays are a maybe contender at-best. Again, no reason to deal Groshans unless the Jays are close. They are not close.

          Reply
  4. Modified_6

    5 years ago

    Groshans + Zeuch for Lance Lynn?

    What do y’all think?

    Reply
    • clrrogers

      5 years ago

      Absolutely not.

      3
      Reply
    • wild bill tetley

      5 years ago

      No need to give up Groshans at this present time for a short stint with Lynn. Blue Jays are not World Series contenders nor is Lynn the final piece to the puzzle.

      5
      Reply
      • Dalton1017

        5 years ago

        there is a need. it may even be light

        Reply
        • wild bill tetley

          5 years ago

          There is no need to give up one of your best hitting prospects to lose round 1 in 2020 and miss the postseason in 2021. No need. No light need. No need whatsoever.

          1
          Reply
    • vtadave

      5 years ago

      Sure, if Lynn signs a 3/50 type extension.

      Reply
    • crshbng

      5 years ago

      Nope and nope

      Reply
  5. raider j81

    5 years ago

    Why look for a starting pitcher when Borucki Kay and Hatch could all start. A reliever to fill the void would cost less and be better suited for the short term.

    Reply
  6. manos

    5 years ago

    Gausman? Really? You’re harping on Roark’s 4.76 ERA but you’d like them to go after Gausman and his 4.65 ERA and who hasn’t been a decent starter in years.

    Reply
    • mlb1225

      5 years ago

      3.14 FIP, 2.94 xFIP, 3.09 SIERA, and slightly above average in terms of hard hit rate and exit velocity. He has a poor ERA, but if I were a contending team looking to bolster the rotation, I would definitley be eyeing up Gausman.

      2
      Reply
      • claude raymond

        5 years ago

        One bad game kills the era in limited games. Gausman hits high 90’s at 100 pitches. Jays don’t want him? Someone else will

        1
        Reply
      • smuzqwpdmx

        5 years ago

        Having a good FIP matters if all 9 defenders are playing on broken legs that day. Otherwise, who cares? I’d rather have a guy who can get outs on balls in play than one who relies entirely on strikeouts and will thus run up his pitch count and be out in the 5th.

        Reply
        • claude raymond

          5 years ago

          Have you watched the giants? Their defense plays like legs are broken. Gausman has to get strikeouts . Not sure ur point smuz

          Reply
        • mlb1225

          5 years ago

          It’s almost like I listed more than just FIP.

          Reply
  7. fba0017

    5 years ago

    Every team looking for rotation upgrades. Lol

    1
    Reply
    • Vladguerrerojr20

      5 years ago

      Don’t think the Pirates are, bud.

      Reply
  8. parksy78

    5 years ago

    Plesac or Clevinger? I’m sure it’d take a lot to land Clevinger though

    1
    Reply
    • Aoe3

      5 years ago

      I dont care how good Clevinger is. He lied to his teammates straight up and showed total disregard for Carrasco and his previous cancer diagnosis and coach Francona with ailments.
      Wouldnt want him or Pleasac anywhere near my clubhouse.

      2
      Reply
      • clrrogers

        5 years ago

        I’d go after Plesac.

        3
        Reply
        • bighouseblue

          5 years ago

          For Teoscar straight up…works for both teams

          1
          Reply
        • bigdaddyt

          5 years ago

          How does trading a controlled above average RF for a bullpen piece work for both teams

          Reply
        • wild bill tetley

          5 years ago

          You calling Plesac a bullpen piece? He’d immediately be the #2 behind Ryu. If all it took was Teoscar I’d say yes before Cleveland finished the sentence.

          Reply
      • Marvel's MAGA Man

        5 years ago

        I’d take him…….29 other teams would take him.

        People act like he maliciously went out and meant to put Francona and Carrasco at risk. I haven’t heard anything suggesting such and it’s more likely he went out and wasn’t truthful cause he felt bad realizing he messed up…..which when people mess up and know they mess up they more often than not tend to be quiet instead of owning up to it immediately…. they usually own up to it after they are caught.

        He’s offered more of an apology than we ever received from Astros and Red Sox players.

        Until he demonstrates this is a pattern of behavior instead of a 1 time thing I’m inclined be ok with my team trading for him.

        5
        Reply
        • ayrbhoy

          5 years ago

          Marvel- I would ask all fans of MLB teams outside of CLE if your Ace and SP2 in your teams rotation made 1 bonehead mistake how would you feel about trading them after one isolated incident? The reaction to Clevinger and Plesac is borderline hysterical and it’s been made worse by Oliver Perez’s comments. It’s ironic that Oliver Perez (who’s new to the clubhouse,) says he’ll forfeit the season if both SP’s come back into the team when Perez was the one who refused to go down to the minors in the Mets org last year. Talk about a clubhouse cancer- the Mets played w a 24 man roster, things spiraled out of control then Perez was kicked off the team. He has some gall making those comments.

          I completely understand the severity of bringing COVID-19 into a clubhouse/team plane with Francona/Carrasco being vulnerable but people make mistakes. What Clev and Plesac did was reckless, selfish and it harmed the clubhouse chemistry but trading away both SP’s from your rotation after 1 isolated incident would hurt your org. for years to come. Cool heads need to prevail, common sense needs to be applied and both players need to earn the trust of their teammates. MLB fans need to ask themselves would you trade away your ace? Cmon, be real. There’s no way MLB fans would want their Ace traded from the team at a discounted price.Not happening.

          1
          Reply
    • wild bill tetley

      5 years ago

      Absolutely. Clevinger’s stock has dropped and the Indians need a bat.

      Reply
    • MarkoRock68

      5 years ago

      No no no to either, Both have shown to be selfish and immature with a me first attitude. Last thing we need in a club house full of young players. Anyone dumb enough to say they made one mistake need to look into both’s comments/actions before and after the incident .

      What about Seattle- Seager and Gonzalez for Groshans/Shaw/Zeuch/Kay . Seager acts as bridge to either Orelvis or Austin and Gonzalez would make an ideal # 3 who is signed long term. Seattle saves money has Shaw to replace Seager rest of year, get a top 100 prospect and 2 potential back end rotation pieces/long relief guys.

      Reply
      • wild bill tetley

        5 years ago

        You’re kidding, right? You do not trade Groshans for a bridge. You trade Groshans for the missing piece of the contending puzzle. Seager and Gonzalez AINT it.

        I guess you do not believe in forgiveness. At least Clevinger and Plesac are young, controllable, and have talent. Your idea is about as dumb as it gets.

        Reply
      • ayrbhoy

        5 years ago

        Marco Gonzales is not getting traded. Stop playing fantasy GM who’s looking solely at contract figures and stats on a page and pay attention to what’s really happening in Seattle. He’s the ultimate competitor, a bulldog, the opening day starter last 2 yrs, a clubhouse leader that all of our rookies look up to, and btw he’s only 28. Multiple times Dipoto has said cost controlled young arms are the most valuable asset on your roster, he’s not dealing him.

        Reply
        • parksy78

          5 years ago

          Lol nice assumption that I’m playing fantasy GM. It was simply a suggestion. I also heard Steve Phillips and Eduardo Perez suggest it on MLB radio. Who said any of this would come true? Just ideas that people are throwing around. Thanks for knowing everything though Sir. 🙂

          Reply
        • wild bill tetley

          5 years ago

          So Parksy is MarkoRock? Glad we snuffed out the burner account.

          Reply
  9. Aoe3

    5 years ago

    Nice to see Toronto string a winning streak together. Now if we can take 3/4 in Tampa that would be so dope..

    Reply
    • Bob Lablah

      5 years ago

      No chance bro. You’re gonna get swept in the Trop. Rays are scorching hot.

      Reply
    • Ducey

      5 years ago

      Jays always have a tough time in Tropicana field, even before the Rays were good.

      The will be doing good to take 2 of 4

      1
      Reply
  10. DarkSide830

    5 years ago

    Dolis and Merryweather for Velazquez and Pivetta. heck, Pivetta is from Canada, that sweetens the pot.

    Reply
    • Marvel's MAGA Man

      5 years ago

      No, Nope, Nein, Ei, Ochi, Non, Ne, Nee, Nej, Nem, Loh, Ani, Nie

      Reply
  11. Ashtem

    5 years ago

    They can take Eovaldi and his entire contract.

    1
    Reply
    • AtlSoxFan

      5 years ago

      Eovaldi, workman, and pillar are all good fits.

      1
      Reply
  12. Rangers29

    5 years ago

    YESSSS!!! Lance Lynn is in another rumor! Maybe… just maybe… Texas will finally see the lack of a light at the end of the tunnel for this season, and trade Lynn. I have high hopes for a prospect return though, Toronto. Even Rangers beat writers are saying a top 50 prospect, and a top 120 prospect plus some pocket lint. Could the Jays do that?

    Reply
    • clrrogers

      5 years ago

      Not for a 33-year old with one year left on his contract. A World-Series-or-bust team might would, but not the Jays.

      4
      Reply
    • wild bill tetley

      5 years ago

      Jays would only do that if it’s a package involving present and future. Jays could bail you guys out but I wouldn’t suggest it. That said, this is what it would take for Lynn to be dealt:

      Lynn, Andrus, Cole Winn and Heriberto Hernandez for Teoscar Hernandez, Reese McGuire and Sean Reid-Foley. Blue Jays take on Andrus’ salary.

      Reply
      • Dalton1017

        5 years ago

        Heriberto can’t be traded and why in the world would the Rangers do that

        1
        Reply
        • wild bill tetley

          5 years ago

          The Rangers won’t. That was my point. Re-read what I said. Blue Jays do not want Lynn at this time.

          1
          Reply
  13. parksy78

    5 years ago

    Marco Gonzales from the Mariners. Although he has a team friendly contract, their GM loves making trades

    3
    Reply
  14. davemlaw

    5 years ago

    Cueto won’t be traded UNLESS it’s to a big market team that will take ALL of his salary.

    The Giants are turning their team around albeit without a great bullpen. But their offense is looking great. Why would they trade Cueto with one year of team control left? They’re not a poor team and they need veteran leadership to bridge the gap to the future.

    Please stop the Cueto getting traded narrative It’s false. Kevin Gausmann, absolutely.

    Reply
    • claude raymond

      5 years ago

      100% agreed dave law. Zaidi likes Gausman, yes, cuz he could bring something in return

      1
      Reply
  15. lowtalker1

    5 years ago

    Not going to happen

    Reply
  16. DarkSide830

    5 years ago

    i feel Cobb is a great add if BAL is willing to eat some salery. id bet on him being better then the pitcher he was 2018-19.

    Reply
  17. wild bill tetley

    5 years ago

    In terms of the deadline I do not think it matters what the Jays do. If they reach the postseason they will be 7 or 8. No reason to give up prospects when you do not have to. Without question listen to offers and test the waters on Clevinger, who’s command in a trade has dropped since he made that obvious bad choice.

    Jays also need to find a taker for Teoscar. He is a DH. Awful defensive OF. Unless he is dominating with the bat he is replaceable.

    Reply
  18. The Oregonian

    5 years ago

    Cueto from the Giants? With Zaidi kicking in cash of course

    2
    Reply
  19. greatgame 2

    5 years ago

    Alex Cobb? HaHa

    Reply
  20. Angels & NL West

    5 years ago

    Dylan Bundy has been throwing well this season and is controllable thru 2021. Anyone interested?

    Reply
  21. Javia

    5 years ago

    Do you guys realize what it says to a team when the fans of another team are trying to pawn off their own pitchers on them? I mean, I cannot tell you how many times I have seen Texas fans suggesting Lance Lynn trades, Angels fans suggesting Bundy trades and Giants fans suggesting Cueto trades! You all act like each one has tremendous value! When a team’s own fan base is soooo willing to give up a player, that makes a statement on their value to their current team. I wouldn’t expect a whole lot in return.

    1
    Reply
    • Rangers29

      5 years ago

      Javia, I can vouch for Rangers fans (at least) when I say that we think Lynn has tremendous value. We think he is a terrific pitcher. There is a forum for Rangers content, and everybody praises him. The thing is, our team is doing nothing. Our ownership has said they don’t want to spend any money, and the fans want to see the team sell on Lynn. Not because he’s bad, but because we are mediocre. We have been smack dab in the middle pack for baseball for years now, and we want to see progress, especially in our farm. Adding some good prospects to Taveras, Jung, Crouse, Winn, and Huff would be great for our future (as soon as 21′). We as Rangers fans also know that with an extra year of control, plus his cheap contract, we could get a lot for him. Trust me, we appreciate him.

      As for Bundy and Cueto, I am not sure if Bundy is a fluke or not, but Callaway is known to fix pitchers, so who knows. Cueto is expensive, so I could see why Giants fans would want to sell high on him.

      1
      Reply
      • Javia

        5 years ago

        I understand that you think Lynn has tremendous value and the truth is, he is valuable. The problem is that when everyone knows you are going to sell the price goes down. It’s like when a home is auctioned. Everyone knows the sale is going to happen. You want to offer just enough to outbid the next highest bidder.

        Besides that, I don’t see anyone selling their soul for a title THIS year. Not with no fans in the stands. A man lost in the desert would give anything for a glass of water. Nobody is lost in the desert this year.

        Reply
        • mlb1225

          5 years ago

          Yea, but there’s a difference between a team’s front office saying they are selling, and a fanbase saying they’re selling.

          2
          Reply
        • Rangers29

          5 years ago

          That’s the point though. Nobody really cares about this season, but Lynn has another year of control. If he helps you win this season… yay. But his real value comes in a full season in 21′.

          1
          Reply
        • claude raymond

          5 years ago

          Javia, cueto is not a part of the giants’ future. If he can get value in a trade, I’m for it. Am I a cueto fan? Yes. Am I a long time giants fan? 55 years.

          I want my team to be good again and cueto is unfortunately not gonna be a part of that.

          Reply
      • smuzqwpdmx

        5 years ago

        Why not just embrace being mediocre for 2020, when a .500 record could win the world series? Seems like an odd time to sell.

        Reply
    • mlb1225

      5 years ago

      When a teams fanbase is ok with pawning off their pieces, that doesn’t mean that said player has little to no value. It’s usually the opposite. It’s more of seeing where we are, and acklowleging that the piece they have isn’t going to help them win this year, or next. Sure, I think Josh Bell is a good player, but is he going to help us win this year, or in 2021? No, and he’s a free agent after 2022. Lynn has been great the last two years, but the Rangers aren’t really going anywhere fast, and he’s a FA after 2021. Cueto is pitching to a league average level, but is he going to be part of the Giants’ next competitive core? No.

      2
      Reply
  22. pittsburghbob69

    5 years ago

    Pirates trade J.Musgrove and Colin Moran for A.Kirk, TJ Zeuch(Played at University of PGH), & Griffen Conine.

    Reply
    • MarkoRock68

      5 years ago

      That’s a big No from the Jays. Our # 6, #16 and Zeuch for a pitcher with a pitcher with a 6.80 Era and a .200 Hitter. I’ll be pissed if the Jays trade Kirk i think the guy will be a hit machine even if he does not stick at catcher.
      We need as many high AVG/On base guys as we can get moving forward.

      Reply
      • pittsburghbob69

        5 years ago

        Musgrove is worth more than Kirk and Zeuch probably..6’5-240 Controllable Starting Pitcher. With 1st round pedigree.. A 4th-5th Starter on any good play-off team. Has bullpen experience for the play-offs too; Cheap and controllable. And Moran plays multiple positions(3B/2B/1B) and left handed bat off the bench. Musgrove will probably bring back somewhere from a 5/6-10 ranked prospect in someone’s system and an MLB ready player. And C.Moran will bring back probably 12-20 ranked prospect. Watch. Musgrove is one of the most valuable SP that will be available for trade. Teams arnt gonna want to pick-up Cueto or Lynn’s salaries. Teams are already screaming broke amidst Covid-19. And teams arnt gonna want to pick up a rental for 30 more games and 4 starts. Musgrove being cheap and controllable, misses bats and a proven MLB caliber starting pitcher(who’s just on a bad team) will bring back something like A.Kirk and Zeuch or more.

        Reply
        • MarkoRock68

          5 years ago

          Pass- not only is he not worth Kirk he’s injured. We have a ton of #4/5 pitchers-relief arms. If were going to give up a prospect like Kirk ( in a package ) it will be for a solid # 3 with some term. We have no need of another low avg/obp guy who strikes out.

          Reply
        • pittsburghbob69

          5 years ago

          Lol..I don’t think it would be your call anyways..lol..you’ll see, what controllable Young SP that are 6’5, 240 pounds are worth..good luck with unproven prospects..Reece McGuire was a more highly touted prospect.

          Reply
        • pittsburghbob69

          5 years ago

          And u know J.Musgrove would be a 2-3 starter on your team. Ryu and Person are the only 2 better than him. He’s better than C.Anderson, T.Roark,T.Thornton, and Matt Showmaker. And is controllable like u said.

          Reply
      • pittsburghbob69

        5 years ago

        Nate Pearson sucks too..a 6.61 ERA..lol..that’s how stupid you sound.

        Reply
        • wild bill tetley

          5 years ago

          PittBob – you said Pearson was better than Musgrove and then turned around to say Pearson sucks? By your logic, trading Joe Panik and Brandon Drury should be enough to get Musgrove. Cherington might take Drury. No joke.

          Reply
        • pittsburghbob69

          5 years ago

          I’m saying, that’s how stupid u sound..u don’t want a player w/ a 6 ERA..well, Nate Pearson has a 6.61 ERA..he must really suck..that’s how stupid u sound.

          Reply
        • wild bill tetley

          5 years ago

          Do you have a point or are you going to come up with more thoughtless comments? Blue Jays are not in a position to take on a Musgrove. The end. They have many other areas to address and Musgrove does not move the needle. You do not know what winning looks like.

          Reply
    • wild bill tetley

      5 years ago

      Musgrove is not worth a trade for a team that isn’t ready to contend. Musgrove does not move the needle for the Blue Jays. A team needing a back end arm is a perfect landing spot for Musgrove. Braves, Twins, teams ready to win now.

      Reply
      • pittsburghbob69

        5 years ago

        If they are looking for roatation help, Musgrove will be one of the cheapest most valuable options out there..watch. Teams arnt gonna want a rental for 3-4 starts, and not gonna want to pick-up someone like Cueto or Lynn’s salary..Teams are already claiming broke amidst Covid-19. Musgrove is cheap and controllable for 3 more years. He’s 6’5, 240 pound and misses bats..Watch. Or go read any experts articles and see what they think Musgrove is worth and what he will bring in return.

        Reply
        • wild bill tetley

          5 years ago

          He’s big, we get it. You don’t have to reiterate we have google. The Blue Jays are talking to gain some attention. They aren’t going to give up prospects for guys like Musgrove for an 8-seed. They just want some phone calls. There’s no reason to give up any prospect for an uncertain and, sorry to say, unproven arm like Musgrove. He’s a waste of time for Toronto.

          I told you which teams he’d be a fit. Win-now teams. Blue Jays do not need to Chris Archer themselves in a trade that is not necessary.

          1
          Reply
        • MarkoRock68

          5 years ago

          You keep going on about him being 6’5″ and 240 likes its come magical spell. The guy is on the IL and having a bad year. No way is our GM giving up one of our best prospects for him.

          1
          Reply
        • pittsburghbob69

          5 years ago

          “Musgrove would cost the Braves to give up a few B to B+ prospects in order to bring him down to Georgia, as Pittsburgh will likely covet promising left-handers like Tucker Davidson and Kyle Muller, but that’s not egregious for a player of Musgrove’s caliber. Atlanta would finally feel confident about their starting rotation once they pick up someone like Musgrove to solidify the back end”

          Thats the 1st article I found. Ya, 6-5, 240 pounds is a horse of a pitcher. You can’t teach size..I guess you don’t ever see drafts or anything in any kind of sport when size is always way more valuable and pitchers that are 6 ft always are questioned and slip/are cheaper.

          That’s one “experts” article saying trade to the Braves for “B”, B+ prospect. Example T.Davidson or K.Muller, Atlanta’s 7th or 9th ranked prospect in a way better system than the Blue Jays..

          You’ll see, what he brings back.

          Reply
        • pittsburghbob69

          5 years ago

          I’ll be back in acouple weeks

          Reply
        • MarkoRock68

          5 years ago

          You do know the Jays originally drafted Musgrove right? So yea know all about “size” and btw BA recently ranked the Jays Farm System # 4 .
          As Wild Bill said above no way will the Jays” Archer” themselves for someone like Musgrove.
          Nice try though.

          Reply
        • pittsburghbob69

          5 years ago

          Chris Archer themselves..lol..Chris Archer was an proven Ace of a staff w/ 3 years control. That’s what it cost dummy. Look at what J.Quintana went for..E.Jiminez (#5 prospect in MLB plus some. Look at C.Sale..Y.Moncada(#1 prospect in MLB) plus M.Kopech and some.. Chris Archer (T.Glasnow, 8th prospect in MLB) plus some. Even go to Shelby Miller, traded for D.Swanson(#1 pick in MLB draft). I’m not saying that’s what Musgrove is at all..I’m saying that’s the price for an Archer or another controllable Ace. Your top prospect plus. Keep all your prospects..good luck..probably 1 out of 5 1st round picks turn into MLB players..

          Reply
        • pittsburghbob69

          5 years ago

          Just cause u guys got junk for Marcus Stroman isn’t my fault..Keep that top farm system..and A.Alford and Kevin Smith and D.Jansen, and Max Pentecost and S.ReId-Foly and Aaron Sanchez and Jonathan Harris and Anthony Gose and R.Tellez and Daniel Norris and Dalton Pompey and DJ Davis..good luck!!

          Reply
        • wild bill tetley

          5 years ago

          Perfect. Musgove is not considered an ace like you claim Archer was. Thank you. You played yourself. A non-ace is not the cost as you say. Just because your organization is inept does not mean other 29 teams have to adapt your method of thinking, or lack thereof. We cannot control the incompetent Pirates organization or fans like you who think they have a clue.

          You mentioned prospects in another idiotic comment, as you can’t formulate thoughts without hatred (thus your multiple back-to-back posts). Since you’re a simp, here’s how to assess the prospects you mentioned:

          Alford underperformed in the minors
          Kevin Smith couldn’t hit his weight and is old for a minor leaguer. Also not a top prospect.
          Danny Jansen would be a treasure in Pitt.
          Pentecost was a stupid draft pick by Anthopoulos.
          Sanchez was a Cy Young contender in 2016 before blister problems
          Gose gave us Devon Travis. Winning trade.
          Norris gave us David Price. Winning trade.
          Many other players you mentioned would be a decent player on Pitt.

          For a guy coming from a total loser organization you are the last person to talk about prospects and what to do with them. Your trade idea sucked, we pointed it out, accept it and own it rather than allow us to own you like we have the last 24 hours.

          1
          Reply
        • MarkoRock68

          5 years ago

          Ok this totally confirms your total ignorance . Stroman got us SWR a very highly regarded Top 100 prospect and Kay who has been excellent out of the pen and will likely be a back end starter.
          And no Stroman was not an ace but then neither was Archer when he was traded for such a haul. (22-36 with a 4.10 era in the 3 yrs prior to the trade) You comparing Archer to Chris Sale is asinine.

          Keep those rose colored glasses on about Musgrove. Your insults and lack of knowledge show the weakness to your arguments.

          1
          Reply
        • pittsburghbob69

          5 years ago

          Read the comment idiot “I’m not saying that Musgrove is that at all”. Meaning for stupid people; Not saying that, Musgrove, is that at all. That he is an Ace or worth that. I was responded to your “get Archered comment” and what an proven, controllable Ace like Archer is worth.

          A losing organization..lol..the Pirates have more WS than the Blue Jays u ass hat. And not to Mention the Penguins over the Maple Leafs..just stop. U look stupid.

          Reply
        • pittsburghbob69

          5 years ago

          What about Archer to J.Quintana or Shelby Miller dumb-ass..Chris Sale is not the only comparisons.

          Reply
        • MarkoRock68

          5 years ago

          No one said you called Musgrove an ace. You calling Archer a controllable Ace with that record and ERA is whats hilarious. He pitched in the AL East so got to see him pitch alot – he was on the downward path when you traded for your ACE. If your idea of an “ACE” is 22-36 and 4.10ERA well best get use to losing alot.

          But wait you traded your ACE- Cole for Musgrove lol.

          Go peddle your wares elsewhere .

          Reply
        • pittsburghbob69

          5 years ago

          Losing orgization is so funny coming from a Blue Jays fan.keep your “highly ranked system”..lol..u have had a higher pick than the Pirates and worse record last year with all your “top prospects”..Vald Jr hitting under .200..lol..u missed the play-offs from 1992-2015. Just like the Pirates..what are u even talking about..lol..and the Pirates have more WS wins and play-off appearances..lol..

          Good luck..keep the farm system, I want my owner and GM to go for it when we have a shot. Not keep every prospect. Did I love the Archer trade. No, I didn’t love Archer at all. But from what I remember he was the price of that trade deadline and was happy we were atleast trying. Atleast something to cheer for. Not, maybe next year, or well we have a #4 ranked farm system. I thought Glasnow and Meadows was enough. And even alittle bit much. But, I would have been fine w/ that. Even though I wasn’t in love with Archer as a Pitcher. I thought giving up Baez too was just way too much on top of Glasnow and Meadows.

          Go and read what any article says about what Musgrove, a cheap controllable starting pitcher, will bring back. I actually quoted the 1st article that came up on google; saying the Braves should look at a trade for Musgrove. It’s all in the same range. a “B” to “B-plus” prospect. A prospect like A.Kirk.

          Like I said, watch, if he gets traded, which I think he will, that’s what he’ll bring back. A proven starting pitcher with bullpen experience for the play-offs, misses bats, and has a pedigree. Yes, he’s on a bad team, his record and ERA will prove that. Just like G.Cole. put him on a play-off team though. He’ll be 12-15 and 5, w/ an ERA in the 4’s, and a strike-out an inning. And will eat innings. Watch, he’ll bring back a “B” to B-plus” prospect( like every article I read says, I didn’t just make up the price, it has many comps too).

          Reply
  23. Darthyen

    5 years ago

    What they need most of all is a MAJOR league manager not a nintendo manager. They may have won a few games in a row lately but the teams overall lack of fundamentals, discipline and the ability to play the right players in the right places.is just awful ………yes I know some of the problems are the players not playing to their caliper BUT the bullpen OVERUSE instead of letting one pitcher (who is pitching well) pitch a couple or three inning to finish it out is brutal.

    Reply
    • MarkoRock68

      5 years ago

      I am starting to think good ole charlie is a Tampa plant. Someone needs to remind him he no longer works for the Rays . Ever single game against Tampa he makes the most bonehead decisions. Tonight’s line up makes no sense and pulling Shoe after 73 pitches when he was doing well with the lead.
      Montoya has cost us 3 games min.

      Reply
    • wild bill tetley

      5 years ago

      I sounded the alarm a few weeks ago and took flack for it. He and the staff are not the answer. Team is still sloppy, his thinking is sloppy, he’s shown he’s not on-top of things and it shows on the field.

      1
      Reply
      • MarkoRock68

        5 years ago

        Totally agree with you on this one.

        Reply
        • wild bill tetley

          5 years ago

          Thanks. Shoemaker was doing fine, and many arms were used yesterday. Would’ve liked to see Shoemaker come out for one more inning.

          Reply
      • filthyrich

        5 years ago

        Still waiting to hear the better replacement options.

        Around the league, managers get walked on by the talent.
        Think Tatis gets any discipline in SD?
        Think the one time Acuna got a slap on the wrist really helped anything?
        Think Rockies fans enjoy seeing Murphy and Kemp get time while their young talent gathers rust?
        MLB manager has become a babysitter position. Rare that a babysitter gets respect.
        Alternative is a former player? Mattingly and Roberts get highly exposed come playoff time.
        The only good manager is the one that has some professionals to work with. Give it some time.
        I think some lucky Schneider is going to walk into a sweet situation.

        Bullpen use has made me cringe a lot.
        Some of these lineups have been cringe worthy as well.
        A lot of wrenches have been thrown into the mix but there seems to be a make it up as you go mentality.

        There is not a lot to work with is the biggest issue.
        Really enjoy seeing Espinal’s chance, and Merryweather seems pretty electric.
        A lot of pieces blossoming in front of us.

        Some successful teams are making strange decisions as well.
        Rays, Indians, Cubs, Padres, Yankees to name a few.
        Nothing textbook coming from these organizations so far.
        This year is a major free for all, more than usual.

        Not sure how Charlie gets the big blame.
        The team is doing about as good as expected.
        Team full of rookies last year played some very exciting games, and the team full of sophs this year are playing some very exciting games while winning at a slight better rate. Not enough but there’s clear improvement over 2019 from my perspective.

        Reply
        • wild bill tetley

          5 years ago

          Any manager with an ability to fill a proper lineup card without names missing is better than Montoyo. Why you are waiting is a waste of time, much like your post full of weak and lame excuses.

          1
          Reply
        • filthyrich

          5 years ago

          Ineligible lineup card puts Montoyo in a category with guys like Joe Maddon and Bruce Bochy.
          You can keep adding to my point all you like.
          Managers are not perfect, never have been, even some that are considered among the greatest modern managers have their flaws.
          Cito was far from perfect.
          What did Charlie do to you?

          Do you wish the Jays hired Carlos Beltran when they were last searching?
          Dusty Baker?
          Bring back Gibbons?
          Any manager that you name will be full of flaws so I applaud your wisdom in avoiding a response. I fart in the general direction of your insulting and condescending tone however.

          Call it excuses, I call it being realistic.
          A very fun team full of young talent is blossoming in front of us. Try to enjoy!
          Ignoring the growth that some of these players have shown while continuing to nitpick super petty points is such a sad way to be.

          Have you tried naps? Cranky living is hardly living.

          Reply
    • smuzqwpdmx

      5 years ago

      The lack of fundamentals is because they have the youngest lineup in MLB. You can’t expect kids to play like adults.

      Reply
      • wild bill tetley

        5 years ago

        Point out the child on the ballfield for us. I’m pretty sure all are above 17 years of age. Pretty sure they’ve played baseball their entire life. Pretty sure if they pulled this in little league they’d run poles for days.

        You damn well better expect the amateur crap to stop by year 2. Be outplayed? Yes. But do not excuse them for things that should be ironed out by high school.

        1
        Reply
      • Darthyen

        5 years ago

        That’s a lame excuse. This is the major league not the instructional league and there have been many a young prospect that have came to the majors and not CONTINUED (key word) to make the same mistake over and over as in the Blue Jays case. That fact that the same mistakes continue to happen, 2 years on now, is suggesting they are getting away with it and thus a manager problem.

        Continuing to misread plays, defensive cues, base running gaffs, not sure who is covering which base especially the pitcher, improper setup from catchers behind the plate, poor attempts on defense especially in the outfield, and players not knowing how many outs or what the count is on the batter in a close game is not acceptable at the major league level. To suggest that is because they are young is a poor excuse. It shows they lack discipline and are getting away with it so they continue to do it. They need a MAJOR league manager.

        1
        Reply
        • filthyrich

          5 years ago

          These are league wide issues.
          A lot of teams need a major league manager and have needed one for ages. Very rare.

          Young stars generally don’t listen to managers.
          Sometimes a strong veteran presence sets the tone that is needed. This type of player is a bit of a dying breed though.
          Grichuk and Shaw as the ‘vets’ don’t quite cut it but not sure the alternatives are great improvements.
          There definitely would’ve been value in keeping Galvis or Smoak around for another year. Both worked great with the rookies but their presence didn’t exactly rub off.
          Needs to be a star veteran setting the tone.

          Last core that went to the playoffs was prone to mistakes as well. A lot of ego went into that but same result. Bautista thought he was some great baserunner?

          Reply

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