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Offseason Outlook: Pittsburgh Pirates

By Steve Adams | October 21, 2020 at 8:37am CDT

The Pirates were baseball’s worst team in 2020, although that came as little surprise following a winter where their only moves of note were to fire their manager, fire their GM and eventually trade away their best position player. They’ll have the top pick in next summer’s draft and another offseason that could subtract some notable names from the big league roster.

Guaranteed Contracts

  • Gregory Polanco, OF: $14MM through 2021 (includes buyout of 2022 club option; contract also contains 2023 club option)

Arbitration-Eligible Players

Note on arb-eligible players: this year’s arbitration projections are more volatile than ever, given the unprecedented revenue losses felt by clubs and the shortened 2020 schedule. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz, who developed our arbitration projection model, used three different methods to calculate different projection numbers. You can see the full projections and an explanation of each if you click here, but for the purposes of our Outlook series, we’ll be using his 37-percent method — extrapolating what degree of raise a player’s 2020 rate of play would have earned him in a full 162-game slate and then awarding him 37 percent of that raise.

  • Josh Bell – $5.7MM
  • Steven Brault – $1.5MM
  • Nick Burdi – $600K
  • Kyle Crick – $800K
  • Michael Feliz – $1.1MM
  • Adam Frazier – $3.7MM
  • Erik Gonzalez – $1.2MM
  • Chad Kuhl – $1.4MM
  • Luke Maile – $900K
  • Colin Moran – $1.9MM
  • Joe Musgrove – $3.4MM
  • Jose Osuna – $1.1MM
  • Richard Rodriguez – $1.1MM
  • Jacob Stallings – $1.0MM
  • Chris Stratton – $800K
  • Jameson Taillon – $2.3MM
  • Trevor Williams – $3.5MM
  • John Ryan Murphy – $600K
  • Nick Tropeano – $700K
  • Non-tender candidates: Feliz, Gonzalez, Maile, Osuna, Murphy, Tropeano

Option Decisions

  • Chris Archer, RHP: $11MM club option with a $250K buyout

Free Agents

  • Derek Holland, Keone Kela

Other Contractual Obligations

  • The Pirates technically owe Felipe Vazquez $7.75MM in 2021, but he’s not earning his salary while on the restricted list due to the abhorrent statutory sexual assault charges brought forth against him in 2019.

The Pirates will head into the 2020-21 offseason with an offense that scored the fewest runs in baseball (219) and a pitching staff that ranked 19th in ERA and 22nd in FIP. It’d be impossible to fix this club in just one offseason, but that’s of course not the goal of GM Ben Cherington and his staff, who surely knew they were signing on for a rebuilding effort when ownership fired former GM Neal Huntington.

Unfortunately for the Pirates, virtually every would-be trade chip on the roster saw his value disintegrate in what was a disastrous 2020 season. Chris Archer could have been one of the more intriguing arms on the trade market but didn’t pitch after undergoing thoracic outlet surgery. That procedure makes his $11MM club option a virtual lock to be bought out, which should formally close the books on one of the most lopsided trades in franchise history. Closer Keone Kela was a no-brainer trade piece but missed the early portion of the season on the Covid-19 injured list and immediately went down with a forearm issue that ultimately ended his season. Both physical setbacks surely deprived the Pirates of the chance to acquire some younger, cost-controlled talent.

Archer and Kela were far from the only injuries that hindered any would-be rebuilding efforts for Cherington & Co., however. Right-hander Joe Musgrove hit the IL with a triceps injury in early August and wasn’t able to return prior to the Aug. 31 trade deadline. He was still discussed in trades — the Blue Jays reportedly came close to striking a deal, in fact — but Musgrove stayed put and will surely be on the market again this winter. Hot-hitting Colin Moran could conceivably have garnered interest from teams in need of a bat; he was hitting .259/.326/.531 as of Aug. 23 — when he was hit by a pitch and diagnosed with a concussion that kept him out until the deadline had passed.

When all was said and done, Jarrod Dyson was the only player the Pirates moved — a deal that netted them a bit of extra cash to devote to international free agency. Musgrove and fellow righty starter Trevor Williams were discussed but never moved, and the Pirates’ remaining trade assets all flopped in terms of performance. Josh Bell, Adam Frazier and Gregory Polanco all hit so poorly that it’s hard to imagine many contenders even carried substantial interest — and that’s an issue that dovetails nicely into what a tough situation Cherington and his staff will face this winter. Here’s a look at what each of those three players did in 2020:

  • Bell: .226/.305/.364, eight home runs, career-worst 26.5 percent strikeout rate
  • Polanco: .153/.214/.325, seven home runs, career-worst 37.4 percent strikeout rate
  • Frazier: .230/.297/.364, seven home runs, career-worst 15.2 percent strikeout rate

Under normal circumstances, any of those three would ostensibly be an appealing trade chip. Polanco has battled injuries and inconsistency, but at his best in 2018, he hit .254/.340/.499 with 23 home runs, 32 doubles, six triples, a dozen steals and decent defense in right field. Bell crushed 37 home runs last year, and while he’s a poor defender at first base, he’s also a switch-hitter who is controlled through the 2022 season. Frazier isn’t as well-known but entered the 2020 season with a career .279/.342/.420 slash. Like Bell, he’s controlled through 2022.

Minor struggles or a slight down season might’ve helped to keep interest in that trio alive, but Bell and Polanco, in particular, ranked among MLB’s worst players. Of the 310 players in baseball to take at least 100 plate appearances this year, Bell’s -0.4 fWAR tied him for 283rd, while Polanco checked in at 303rd. Maybe a team would still like to acquire Bell while his salary is manageable and roll the dice on his two years of club control, but no one would pay a premium to do so. Polanco’s salary now looks mostly immovable. Frazier’s season wasn’t quite as dire, but a trade would still be selling quite low on a typically steady producer.

There are similar quandaries in the rotation. Trevor Williams got out to a solid start to his 2020 season but was shelled over his final six starts. In his final 31 frames, he yielded 28 earned runs on 41 hits (12 homers) and 13 walks with 26 punchouts. Chad Kuhl posted a respectable 4.27 ERA through 46 1/3 innings in his return from Tommy John surgery, but he also walked 28 batters and hit a pair in that time, resulting in an ugly 5.48 FIP and 4.98 xFIP. Jameson Taillon moved another year closer to free agency in 2020, but the Pirates can’t be expected to trade him when he hasn’t pitched since June 2019 due to his second Tommy John surgery. All three of those pitchers are controlled through 2022, so there’s time to build some value back up next season.

If there’s one bright spot from the rotation that should bring the Bucs a nice haul this winter, it’s the aforementioned Musgrove. His forearm troubles limited him to 39 2/3 frames in 2020, but he was quite good when healthy (3.86 ERA, 3.42 FIP, 55-to-16 K/BB ratio, 48.2 percent grounder rate). Thankfully for the Pirates, Musgrove finished well upon his return and was utterly dominant in his final two outings: 13 shoutout frames against the Indians and Cardinals with a 21-to-2 K/BB ratio. He’s controlled another two seasons, and with a 4.23 ERA, 3.69 FIP, 8.6 K/9 and 2.2 BB/9 in 325 1/3 innings since being acquired by Pittsburgh, he’ll be among the more appealing arms on the trade market this winter — especially considering a projected salary south of $4MM.

There are certainly some other arms the Bucs could market to the league’s many pitching-needy clubs. Southpaw Steven Brault turned in a career-best 3.38 ERA and 3.92 FIP through 42 2/3 frames, working mostly as a starter. His previous track record was limited, but he’s controlled through 2023 (and sings one heck of a National Anthem). Right-hander Richard Rodriguez quietly posted a 2.70 ERA/2.85 FIP with a 34-to-5 K/BB ratio in 23 1/3 frames. Chris Stratton, acquired from the Angels for cash in 2019, has a 3.76 ERA and matching FIP with 10.1 K/9 and 3.3 BB/9 in 76 2/3 innings as a Pirate. Both relievers are controlled through 2023 as well.

Perhaps behind the plate, 30-year-old Jacob Stallings could be an under-the-radar trade candidate. Stallings has hit .256/.326/.380 over the past two seasons while also serving as one of the best defenders in baseball. He’ll be 31 in December, but he’s controlled through 2024. It’d be a leap of faith for a contending club to plug him in as a starter, but over Stallings’ past 353 plate appearances, he’s been worth 2.4 fWAR and rWAR alike. If nothing else, his considerable platoon splits would make his right-handed bat a strong complement to another club’s left-handed-hitting starter.

Certainly, that’s a lot of focus on what the Pirates could subtract this winter and not much of a look at what they could add. It goes without saying that the Bucs won’t be players for any of the market’s top free agents or any high-profile players on the trade market. That doesn’t mean Cherington’s group will entirely eschew some free-agent additions, however. In fact, there’s good reason to argue for the Pirates being fairly aggressive with short-term adds in free agency.

Assuming a Musgrove trade is ultimately put together, there will be space in the rotation to attract free-agent starters in search of rebounds. Taillon and righty Mitch Keller should have spots locked down, and either of Williams or Kuhl could get another look if they’re not traded. Adding a rotation piece in need of a bounceback — or perhaps a young, non-tendered arm with some upside — would be wise.

The current group of free-agent starters includes rebound candidates like Anthony DeSclafani, Michael Wacha, Alex Wood, Tyler Chatwood and numerous others. The non-tender market will add alternatives, with Jose Urena, Vince Velasquez and Steven Matz standing out as a few speculative possibilities. The Pirates have a fairly pitcher-friendly park and a clear path to innings — something many contending clubs won’t be able to offer.

That’s even more true in the bullpen, where there should be numerous spots up for grabs in Spring Training. Promising a few spots to relievers in search of a rebound is sensible given the dearth of proven arms in the current group and the potential to spin any new signings into a decent return come July. We see this sort of deal come together every year around the league, with Kansas City’s recent Trevor Rosenthal addition standing as the most recent example.

With the entire Pirates outfield struggling badly in 2020, the Bucs would be a nice soft landing spot for any free agent whose market collapses — a near inevitability given the expected lack of spending among teams and the potential flooding of the market following the non-tender date. They’ll want to leave space to allow 2019 Rookie of the Year candidate Bryan Reynolds to rebound and, quite likely, to give waiver pickup Anthony Alford a platform to audition. Shortstop-turned-outfielder Cole Tucker should get a look as well. Still, there ought to be enough fluidity to grab a veteran who could provide stability, competitive at-bats and perhaps be flipped as was the case with Dyson this year.

The infield should be mostly set with breakout sensation Ke’Bryan Hayes, who had one of the best showings of any rookie once he was finally called to the big leagues, getting the third base job from the outset. Moran and Bell can pair to handle duties at first base and, if it’s implemented permanently in the NL, at designated hitter. Frazier’s track record should be enough to give him a mulligan on his poor 2020 showing if he isn’t traded. The possibility of a non-tender involving Bell, Frazier or Moran can’t be completely ruled out, but any would register as a surprise.

It’s also plausible that the Bucs could add at shortstop, where none of Kevin Newman, Kevin Kramer or the aforementioned Tucker has solidified himself. The 27-year-old Newman was terrific in 2019 but, like many of his teammates, floundered at the plate in 2020. Right hip surgery, meanwhile, wiped out Kramer’s entire season. Perhaps the Pirates could give a versatile option like Freddy Galvis or Jonathan Villar a look on a bounceback deal if neither is finding much of a market. There may be some speculation connecting the Bucs to KBO star Ha-Seong Kim, who’ll be posted this winter, given the team’s prior winning of the Jung Ho Kang bidding back in 2014. But Kim is a better player, should cost more and should also field offers from more competitive clubs; a match here would be a surprise.

Broadly speaking, it should be a quiet offseason for a Pirates club that, more than anything else, needs to see key 2019 contributors rebound in 2021. It will be critical for Bell, Polanco, Frazier, Williams and others to reestablish some trade value as their club control continues to dwindle. Should that not pan out, there could be a very different and difficult set of decisions for the Bucs to make this time next year. In the meantime, Pirates fans can look forward to watching Hayes build on his astounding debut effort as they continue to dream of what next year’s No. 1 overall pick might bring.

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2020-21 Offseason Outlook MLBTR Originals Pittsburgh Pirates

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64 Comments

  1. dbisawesome

    5 years ago

    I am a Pirates fan and still to this day I don’t understand why they did not trade everyone. Tank for Kumar. If they don’t select him with the first pick I am DONE.

    1
    Reply
    • Steve Adams

      5 years ago

      Ten months — the draft is in July next year — is always too far in advance to gauge who the No. 1 pick will be, but it’s all the more true this year. Rocker is obviously the favorite right now, but so much can change between now and then.

      Think of all the high school juniors growing into their athleticism who didn’t get a chance to play for scouts in 2020. By the time they’re beginning their senior years in 2021, it’ll have been close to two years since scouts had eyes on some of those kids. There will be breakout prospects. Same holds true of college freshmen/sophomores who have matured.

      There’s also the more simple and straightforward possibility that Rocker gets injured or sees his stuff seriously regress next season.

      My general point: don’t get locked in on Rocker himself. Get locked in on the idea of them taking the consensus No. 1 talent and be open to the idea that that consensus could change between now and Draft Day.

      3
      Reply
      • Lets Go DBacks

        5 years ago

        MLB Pipeline podcast gave a similar consensus to yours. Draft picks 1-5 look pretty clear, just not the order and in general no one knows how all kids are doing.

        Reply
    • Brixton

      5 years ago

      Theres really not much to trade at all

      1
      Reply
    • LordD99

      5 years ago

      I wouldn’t be so quick to renounce your fandom if they took Jack Leiter.

      Reply
    • Joggin’George

      5 years ago

      Basing your entire fandom on one future draft pick? In a sport where the draft is as much of a crap shoot as it is? That’s pretty weak.

      2
      Reply
      • senior52

        5 years ago

        I agree it is pretty weak, but you have to feel for the guy or any Pirate fan for their frustration.

        1
        Reply
        • Joggin’George

          5 years ago

          I consider the Pirates to be one of my favorite teams, so, to a certain extent, I do understand. I understand the desire to rebuild. Tanking for a higher pick in baseball is just a dumb, ineffective strategy in my opinion, and thus, a silly thing to hinge one’s fandom upon.

          Reply
    • Robertowannabe

      5 years ago

      One must have a willing partner to trade and look to receive some sort of value for the player that you are wanting to move. They Tanked without moving anyone. If what was being offered back for your players was not worth the consideration, why make the move for the sake of making the move? There is still plenty of time to make moves in this offseason. I would have been more upset if they made a move for say Bell and the only thing offered was a couple lottery pick A ball guys.

      Reply
    • dbisawesome

      4 years ago

      Yes. I am a bucco fan to death and they need to trade EVERYONE except for Keller Hayes Newman Reynolds and the top prospects. Everyone else should be traded for prospects. I trust Cherington because he did it to the Red Sox but Nutting will never let it happen it seems like.

      Reply
  2. 13Morgs13

    5 years ago

    The pirates can dig out in a 2-3 years. Ownership is a issue, but they have some young talent and a good farm. That Archer trade was AWFUL

    1
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    • tiredolddude

      5 years ago

      I think it’s more like 4-5 years, and you’re overstating their farm, but your point is well taken. The previous GM thought trading/letting go of its stars AND trading its promising minor league talent made a great deal of sense. The result is what you see now, and a pipeline that’s trying to nurture pitching and outfielders.

      2
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      • holecamels35

        5 years ago

        I disagree. He held onto prospects for too long, left them in the minors until they got old and only gave them a short opportunity.

        The decision to trade their top young prospects only happened in the Archer deal where he acted uncharacteristically and went all in when the team wasn’t really that good.

        They made trades that barely moved the needle when they were in their window and failed to bolster the team in free agency after a good year.

        Seems like Ben is playing in safe for now and seeing what he has, which isn’t much, but is the right approach and build back from the ground up.

        Reply
        • PiratesFan1981

          5 years ago

          Reese McGuire catcher in Toronto was traded by the Pirates to them. There was plenty of other prospects moved too. Jacoby Jones to the Tigers. So you must not be a true Pirates fan to know that they traded their system that the organization sold us on. Let’s not forget some trades to the Indians that involved prospects that could have helped this club today.

          *drops the mic*

          Reply
        • Robertowannabe

          5 years ago

          You might want to pick the mic back up…….Reese is still a back up and had chances to win the job but has never done so in Toronto. Don’t forget about his arrest in Florida…A little too gross to describe on this board. Jacoby has not exactly set the world on fire either. and who, pray tell might be helping them today that went to Cleveland…….

          1
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        • PiratesFan1981

          5 years ago

          McGuire is a worthy catcher to have and has made great strides while in Toronto. Your clueless about McGuire and it’s so obvious that you haven’t paid attention this year. A backup lmao! I spit my drink out upon reading that.

          Jacoby Jones was brought up way too early by the Tigers. It showed instantly too. The guy needed 2 more years in the minors before being brought to MLB. Tigers blew that talent like they have many many other talented players. Any prospect in Detroit is pushed faster to the majors than any other organization in baseball. It’s poorly managed.

          Jordan Luplow is still with the Indians. Man, I’d love to have him back right now.

          *drops mic dramatically*

          Reply
        • stymeedone

          5 years ago

          Jacoby was not young for his level, and not rushed. Who are these rushed prospects you refer to? From 2004-2014 it was difficult for young players to get opportunities because they were pretty stacked. Then the system was pretty barren. Teams in rebuilding mode do give young players opportunities, even suspect talent like Dawel Logo. Maybe they surprise and what’s to lose? To say this is how Detroit operates all the time is just uninformed.

          Reply
        • tiredolddude

          5 years ago

          The slam dunk comes in reviewing what you have now. You mean the return for Glasnow, Meadows, Baz, McGuire, Luplow and Jones made the team better at that point…and for the future? Just who is doing the talent evaluation of younger players, anyway?

          Reply
        • Robertowannabe

          5 years ago

          Lol! Pick up the mic again. Luplow is 27 was a -0.2 WAR this year and still can’t regular playing time for a team continually looking for outfielders. Jones is 28 and still looking for regular playing time for a bad Tigers team. I know all about McGuire and his backup status starting only 12 games this year . I trust that you are being sarcastic but either way, as Mr Sakamoto once said to Hunt Stephenson, “You make me laugh!”

          2
          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          5 years ago

          Tired-The Archer trade has been beat to death and is an outlier but Soria for Jones helped the Pirates in 2015 and Luplow can only hit lefthanders and not so much this year.McGuire was dumped for money in the Liriano trade and he is not looking too good now either.
          It is easy to rag on the Pirates and NH now that they are down but this list is old news.

          2
          Reply
        • holecamels35

          5 years ago

          How many prospects do you need though? That’s always been the issue. McGuire was given away but he’s literally just a guy. Jones is getting play because the TIgers are nearly as bad as the Pirates, none of these guys would make a difference there. They either flat out don’t know how to develop guys or their young players simply aren’t that good.

          Reply
        • tiredolddude

          5 years ago

          Understand your points completely. Not so much a rag on NH as it continues to be a point of fascination. Here was a front office that couldn’t decide if it wanted to get rid of talent and it’s veteran price tag, or dump top prospects to get a stopgap player who may get you a wild card berth. That’s the point. Not so much a rag as it is an allusion to the state of affairs now, that’s all. Thanks

          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          5 years ago

          Tired-I agree that the Archer trade was out of the ordinary and certainly did not fit the Pirates normal mode of operation.I think that it may have been pushed from upstairs in order to win in 2018 but who knows.They actually did have a decent team that year.Maybe there is more to it than meets the eye,thus the fascination..
          I don’t think that they decided to dump top players who were expensive as much as realizing that they were not going to sign them to mega contracts so they traded them early to get a return on them.Such is the reasoning of at least this small market team.
          I doubt that they will change that modus operandi while this team is owned by Nutting no matter who the general manager is.

          Reply
        • JoeBrady

          5 years ago

          I agree 100%. The Cole trade, and the Archer trade, were both bad on their own merits.

          But the worse part is that they made a bad trade in order to tank, and 6 moves later, made a trade to try to make the playoffs.

          The biggest mistakes that GMs make, imo, is the inability to decide whether or not they are a contender. PT was three games behind three other teams for one playoff slot remaining. And approximately tied with three other teams. So maybe the had a 10% chance of any success.

          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          5 years ago

          I did not say either was a bad trade at the time.At the time is all that matters as anyone can be a Monday morning quarterback.Cashman could have had another WS win with Cole two years earlier if he would have traded two young players who are good but hardly superstars.That shows how Cole was valued by other GM’s and that NH got as much as he could have when he made the trade.The only consideration is waiting until the trade deadline and he was afraid of Cole getting hurt as he had done for a couple of years.
          The Pirates unlike the Astros,Tigers,and Royals,have never tried to tank.They have been this bad for 1 1/2 years on their own merits.
          Remember tanking only gets you the first draft choice and a subsequent order just below the WS winner.At least half of the first choices never really add up to any special player

          Reply
        • JoeBrady

          5 years ago

          There are other reasons to tank.

          1-The RS acquired Pivetta, Seabold, Rosario, Potts, Wallance and a PTBNL for pieces that were going to have very little impact in 2021.

          2-This is a lesser reason, if you are moving payroll, it theoretically allows you to spend more when you are competitive again. One more mistake GMs make is to add payroll, when they are not competitive, only to see that salary become an anchor when the team is competitive.

          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          5 years ago

          I guess that we may have somewhat different definitions of tanking.Yours seems to be to trade expensive players for younger ones when the team,for whatever reason,is not going to be overly competitive.Mine is more like the Astros or Philadelphia 76 er’s,(it can be very successful in the NBA)..Mine is where you try to become as bad as youcan by stripping yourself of anybody but young players and not in the least caring how many games you lose.It seems to me that Inasmuch as there is no guarantee that you will win a WS that way,is foolhardy,and sours your fans.
          Please do not think that the RS modus is in any way the shape or form of the Pirates,or many small market teams for that matter.Keep in mind that the Pirates current record for a multi year contract is for Jason Kendall from the 1990’s.

          Reply
        • JoeBrady

          5 years ago

          I don’t disagree. Getting rid of expensive players is just a side benefit. Bringing in prospects to improve your chances in the future is the main benefit.

          Of course it does not guarantee a WS, since nothing is ever guaranteed. But if I were a fan of a small market team, I’d prefer that they cycle thru good and bad periods of being .575 and .375 for a few years in a row, rather than keep a more constant .475 every year.

          And, as a RS fan, if we are going to be a .500 team and miss the playoffs, I’d rather them be a .450 team by trading for more prospects.

          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          5 years ago

          Probably a healthy outlook for both small market and wealthy teams.Inasmuch as each small market team has a 0.5% chance of winning a WS each year,though,I have somewhat of a realistic attitude that even those 0.575 teams have very little chance of winning a WS.
          I do have to say,and with all due respect,that your Sawx have been somewhat piggy about your WS victories over the last 17 years which makes up for the very long previous drought,

          Reply
  3. BigFred

    5 years ago

    Other than that, everything’s looking pretty good.

    5
    Reply
  4. DarkSide830

    5 years ago

    well, those unis are nice at least

    Reply
  5. Monkey’s Uncle

    5 years ago

    This team is a raging dumpster fire, and I’m a fan of the team. Nowhere to go but up I guess.

    1
    Reply
  6. baseballpun

    5 years ago

    Offseason Outlook: Pittsburgh Pirates: Grim

    3
    Reply
  7. bobtillman

    5 years ago

    So the Archer trade, which was obviously a loser, is miles away from the catastrophe Buc fans make it out to be. It’s easy to dream on Glassnow and Meadows, but the reality is, both have been rather “meh”; Meadows, actually, was awful this year. And Baz has had his skeptics for a while, and they’re still around.

    What made the trade poor was that Archer was obviously to most people on a downward slide. And then he got hurt. A “bad” trade”? Sure. But folks talk about it like it’s Brock for Breglio…it isn’t.,

    But the Pirates are still in trouble. There’s little to trade, the farm system is at best average, and the expensive vets have underperformed. In fact, so have the “prospects” they’ve brought up. And they don’t have a whole of money (an absolutely gorgeous park, tho).

    Given all the issues, they’re a Ph.D thesis on how to get them back into the race in 3 years. This isn’t like Detroit or Frisco…those teams can get better whenever they want to. Every time Cherrignton turns around, there’s a brick wall. He’s a bright guy (at least they say he is) , so he can do it. But it’s assuredly going to take time, and a much better effort from all his subordinates (draft, international, development) to make it happen.

    Probably the most challenging franchise out there.

    1
    Reply
    • jam

      5 years ago

      His. And it’s Ernie Broglio (pronounced BRO-lee-oh) who went 7-19 in 59 games over his 3 seasons with the Cubs. As a Pirates fan, it’s somewhat comforting to remember that other teams made horrendous trades, too.

      1
      Reply
    • JoeBrady

      5 years ago

      It’s easy to dream on Glassnow and Meadows, but the reality is, both have been rather “meh”;
      ———————————————————-
      Glasnow is #13 in ERA over the past three years. If that’s ‘meh’, kindly send 5 ‘mehs’ to my RS.

      Meadows OPS+ with TB is 131.. Kindly send two more of those ‘mehs’, and I send back Benni to you.

      1
      Reply
      • Robertowannabe

        5 years ago

        Glasnow pitched like his Bucco days last night. 112 pitches in 4 1/3 innings 8 SO and 6 BB. Gave up 6 runs. He has not been great thi8s year. Meadows is hitting
        .108 in the post season after hitting .204 in the regular season. Has a torrid start to last year and crested at .357 on June 2nd. Dropped to .273 by the end of August and then hit ok till the end of the season and finished at .291 If not for the torrid start, would have had a very meh season last year.

        1
        Reply
        • dan55

          5 years ago

          lol Pirates fan trying to justify that trade. Just admit it, the trade for Archer is one of the worst all time. Archer played like a fringe starter for you guys, while the Rays got Glasnow, Meadows and Baz. Sure Glasnow struggled last night, but he’s still much better than Archer. And even though Meadows has struggled this season, it’s still just 60 games. I would expect him to be better over a larger season. And to top it all off, the Rays also picked up Baz, who is one of the top pitching prospects in the game right now.

          Reply
        • tiredolddude

          5 years ago

          I hated the trade from the start but then, I’d seen enough of Archer to know you don’t mortgage your future for a guy whose 6 or 7 starts might get you a WC berth
          I knew people would be defending the trade after Glasnow’s performance last night but he’s been pretty solid the last two years. And Meadows? There’s the guy you could have built the future around.

          Reply
        • JoeBrady

          5 years ago

          That’s the same for most players. They get hot, then they get cold, then they get hot, etc. Last year, Meadow’s only bad month was May. That’s pretty consistent.

          Reply
        • Goku the Knowledgable One

          5 years ago

          The only worse trade ever was Gerrit Cole for Colin Moran and Joe Musgrove.

          If you cant net a top prospect for your former #1 overall pick who panned out being the ace of a playoff team, then you probably shouldn’t be a GM.

          Reply
  8. DarkSide830

    5 years ago

    the Pirates have some solid building blocks in Hayes, Newman, and Bell, but the problem is the lack other pieces to add. pipeline isnt too hot and they wolnt spend.

    Reply
    • tiredolddude

      5 years ago

      I’m not sold on Bell but get your point. I think his first half of ‘19 will always be his high water mark and his glove can only get better, but not sure he’s the guy you can build the franchise around. Not that they have anything else, of course.
      I’m hoping Keller continues to progress and Taillon returns stronger but there are so many holes and not a lot of help on the horizon

      Reply
    • bobtillman

      5 years ago

      Newman had a OPS+ of 54 last year…one of the worst in MLB. Bell looks like a 3 month wonder, and while you have to love Hayes’ glove, he gave little indication throughout his minor league career that he can maintain the offense he showed.

      They probably didn’t do Newman any favors moving him around last year, and they might want to accept that “big prospect” or not, Cole Tucker’s a bust; nice utility guy maybe, at his ceiling.

      The pitching isn’t THAT bad if Keller/Taillion/Musgrove are all healthy,, and there’s some pieces on the farm, but they won the few games they did last year with contributions from journeyman-has-good-year types like Gonzales and Stallings. They’re in pretty tough shape.

      The owner won’t spend, and even if he did, there’s not a lot there. The fan base is loyal though, and will fill PNC with some type of quality product. Properly managed, they can be an Indian-type franchise, or Brewers-type.

      Reply
      • tiredolddude

        5 years ago

        Well said. I guess the most frustrating thing for me is the twin disasters of giving away guys in their minor league system and misidentifying young talent. Polanco comes to mind here. Was it simply making a wrong judgment or were the Pirates guilty of not having a staff that could develop his abilities? He’s not alone, of course. We heard the raves about Tucker, Newman, Kramer and myriad others. Granted, this isn’t the Dodger minor league system, but what’s gone wrong?
        And with that, I just don’t see the cavalry coming over the hill. Won’t spend. Really have nothing to trade. The pipeline has very little. Is it a situation of drafting well, developing the kids and hope to produce a competitive product in ‘25?

        Reply
      • DarkSide830

        5 years ago

        none of those guys are low risk, obviously, but I think the three i mentioned have a minors track record to suggest that their numbers can inprove. (i particularly dont get the comment about Hayes. he hasnt dominated the minors but did well just about everywhere he played in the minors)

        Reply
  9. jfo1804

    5 years ago

    2020 Pittsburgh Pirates—-sort of like saying the Titanic was a great boat ride except for the iceberg!

    I gave up on this team when they didnt spend when they were contenders and will never go back until team is sold which I know will never happen

    Go Washington Wild Things!

    Reply
  10. raulp

    5 years ago

    How about Trevor Bauer?

    Reply
  11. chopper2hopper

    5 years ago

    Outlook: God help them

    1
    Reply
  12. HalosHeavenJJ

    5 years ago

    Seems like the best, likely only, option is to roll out largely the same cast and hope for some rebounds and better injury luck.

    I’d like to see Musgrove as an Angel. He’s young and trending in the right direction.

    1
    Reply
  13. Joggin’George

    5 years ago

    Pittsburgh Pirates off-season outlook: not good, not good.

    Reply
    • Orel Saxhiser

      5 years ago

      It’s better than their in-season outlook.

      1
      Reply
  14. leefieux

    5 years ago

    Penciling Taillon into the rotation? Name a double TJ pitcher who succeeded as a SP. Daniel Hudson made it back as a reliever. That is Jamo’s future, I fear.

    Reply
  15. Budlight Selig

    5 years ago

    Pirates should reinstate Felipe Vazquez and trade him to the Astros, who would probably be more than happy to take him. After all, the Astros morals are lower than the Pirates winning percentage.

    4
    Reply
  16. swartnp7

    5 years ago

    Cherington is kinda stuck. Obviously they needed to clean house, but every decent piece underperformed, thus cuffing him. Bell isn’t the kind of player you sell low on. Sadly, I think 2021 needs to be a repeat in some fashion.
    1. Hope your assets rekindle some value, then trade them.
    2. Sign bounce-back players, rebuild their value, then trade them.
    3. Play prospects where possible: Hayes, Reynolds, Alford, Keller, Nick G and TSwags at some point.
    4. Keep playing terrible baseball and get high picks and international $ for signings.

    I AM excited about some players in the system though. Gonzalez, Tahnaj Thomas, Priester, Bolton, Cruz (if he isn’t in prison), Swaggerty, Peguero, etc.

    1
    Reply
    • Joggin’George

      5 years ago

      I could see Bell having a great first half, then being prime deadline trade bait.

      Reply
      • Orel Saxhiser

        5 years ago

        Might be a coincidence, but he went downhill the week he was prepping for the Home Run Derby and hasn’t hit since. He had max value then but the Pirates were at .500 and in the wildcard race. Chasing a wildcard was also why they made the Archer trade in 2018. Different GM now. So, what happens if Bell has a monster first half in 2021 and the Pirates have a shot at making the expanded playoff field? Do they shoot for a WC spot or move Bell?

        Reply
  17. thats it fort pitt

    5 years ago

    I expect nothing but non-roster invitee signings.

    Reply
  18. davemlaw

    5 years ago

    Pirates should build their offense from the clearance isle so Bell and Polanco can’t be pitched around, raising their trade value for a July departure. There will be good and cheap bats available. Also, take a flyer or too on some bounce back pitching candidates to create more trade options.

    Knowing the road ahead will be rough makes things easier but 2021 will not but fun to watch.

    1
    Reply
    • Orel Saxhiser

      5 years ago

      Puig might make sense for the offense. For pitching, I like Julio Teheran. He was awful for the Angels in the abbreviated 2020 season. But he was decent for the Braves the previous seven seasons, never pitching less than 174.2 innings while making at least 30 starts in each of them. This will take some pressure off the younger pitchers. Plus, Teheran himself isn’t old as he turns 30 on January 27. A decent bounce-back candidate who, like Puig, is a seasoned big-leaguer who will be looking to restore his contract value. They along with Bell and Polanco can perhaps be moved at the deadline if the Pirates are far back in the standings. If that’s the case, Pirates fans can take comfort in that Cherington is calling the shots.

      1
      Reply
  19. cbee

    5 years ago

    The Pirates should sign (well re-sign) Mel Rojas Jr from Korea.

    Reply
  20. Mendoza Line 215

    5 years ago

    I actually think that the Pirates could be respectable next year but they have to have a number of things work out for them.Remember that 2020 was not in any way shape or form a normal year ago and the results should be taken with a grain of salt.That said,they have been terrible for a year and a half.
    They need the new manager to learn to use a bullpen correctly,all regulars to hit at least to what their norm has been, the pitching starters to resume their end of the year domination,quit playing everyone at a myriad of positions,and maintain a standard lineup until individual players prove otherwise.This suggested lineup maximizes the defense and provides continuity.They can try it to give the young players a chance to prove themselves as the team certainly has nothing to lose.

    Frazier LF
    Newman 2B
    Reynolds CF
    Bell DH
    Moran/Ozuna 1B
    Hayes 3B
    Alford RF
    Stallings/FA(Hedges?) C
    Tucker SS

    Bench Gonzalez Evans
    SP’s
    Taillon Keller Musgrove Kuhl Brault
    Long men
    Tropeano Stratton Brubaker
    Closers
    Burdi,Rodriguez Kela( resign)
    7 th inning
    Feliz Holmes

    Trade Polanco,Williams,Kramer
    If Turley and Howard show improvement in spring training and Holmes and Feliz do not switch them out.The Pirates need to fish or cut bait on some of these guys.

    Reply
  21. wkkortas

    5 years ago

    Anything beyond the word “bleak” is just unnecessary verbiage.

    Reply
  22. joew

    5 years ago

    The Pirates have two options, Gut or Add its that simple.

    Gut the system and look to 2022 Trading everyone with less than 3 years left for players “ready” in two with high upsides and low floors and then cross your fingers that they pan out. The big problem with this is none of these players have any value after 2020. Yeah you can say 2020 is a unique season but other players had this problem less so little value.

    Adding. the position players are pretty set, Bell, Frazier, Tucker, Newman, Hayes, Reynolds, Polanco, Osuna, Moran all have some decent potential who have shown good play at some point the past few years. Pitching was pretty horrible but started coming around near the end of the season. Talion and Burdi coming back strong in 2021. Adding a not horrible outfielder, solid pen arm and rebound starter or a ending of career starter. then cross your fingers for players playing near their better years. Now that the team is more used to the new coaching staff and that staff more used to the players seems like an off chance.

    .500 would be a realistic possibility should that happen. It would also add trade value should the perform.

    Players like Happ, Braun, Zunino are going on the market.. Probably out of the price range but would make them way more interesting in 2021.

    What they’ll probably do is stand pat and hope players like Bell increase their trade value while declining Archer and maybe resigning him for less. (i hope so, i really like Chris)

    Reply

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