9:20pm: Springer has offers in hand north of $100MM, according to a tweet from Jon Heyman of MLB Network. Those bids nevertheless remain well shy of the veteran’s asking price, per the report.
3:47pm: The Mets and Blue Jays have been known to be the strongest suitors for free agent slugger George Springer for weeks, but Deesha Thosar of the New York Daily News takes that notion a bit further, reporting that the Mets and Jays are the two “final clubs” bidding on Springer in free agency.
That, however, doesn’t necessarily mean a decision from Springer is nigh. Springer isn’t expected to sign until January, Thosar writes. While that technically could mean as soon as Friday, SNY’s Andy Martino writes that many involved in the bidding expect that Springer’s free agency could drag “well” into next month. Per Martino, the Mets and Springer aren’t yet close to a deal, and Springer’s camp is still seeking more than $150MM in guaranteed money.
In all likelihood, a $150MM+ contract would make Springer the top paid position player of the winter — possibly the top paid free agent overall. Such a contract could take multiple shapes; clubs more concerned about maintaining year-over-year flexibility could opt for a six-year pact in the $25MM-per-year range, or a team less concerned about approaching the luxury threshold could up the annual rate to around $30MM per year on a five-year term. Given the Blue Jays’ affordable young core, they seem less likely to be concerned with the luxury barrier than the Mets, who have several expensive stars already scattered about the roster.
Notably, Martino suggests that the Mets “might be willing to approach” the $150MM mark to secure Springer, although it’s likely telling to some extent that the two sides aren’t yet close to a deal in spite of that willingness. The Mets and the Blue Jays are considered to be two of the market’s most aggressive buyers this winter, and their reported interests carry some overlap beyond Springer; both have been linked to DJ LeMahieu, and both were tied to J.T. Realmuto — although the Mets are obviously out of that market now after signing James McCann to a four-year, $40.6MM contract.
Reports surrounding the two clubs seem to paint the Mets as the aggressor in the Springer market. New York is said to be focused on the longtime Astros center fielder as its top target, while the Jays remain linked to a bevy of top-tier free agents, including Springer, LeMahieu, Realmuto and Trevor Bauer. Both the Mets and the Blue Jays have also been rumored as possible landing spots when Francisco Lindor is ultimately traded.
Springer has raked at career-high rates over the past two seasons, posting a combined .284/.376/.576 batting line with 53 home runs, 26 doubles and five triples in 173 games and 778 plate appearances. Both Toronto and New York have somewhat crowded outfield pictures as it is, but either could move some pieces around to accommodate an impact bat of Springer’s caliber. Since Opening Day 2019, Springer has been 53 percent better than a league-average bat, by measure of wRC+. Only six players in that time top his mark of 153: Mike Trout, Nelson Cruz, Alex Bregman, Christian Yelich, Juan Soto and Anthony Rendon.
$150M seems awful high for a 31 year old OF who will probably need to move to a corner OF position over the next 2-3 years. Even 5/$125M seems high to me but all it takes is one party to be interested for this to happen. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Springer guaranteed money comes in at 4/$100M with a $25M vesting option or maybe something like 5/$110M guaranteed with annual incentives of up to $5M based on availability (plate appearances, games played, etc). I just don’t see any team going 6/$150M for Springer given his age and declining defensive skills.
This entire thread just be closed because this sums it up perfectly. Saintly thoughts here, DM.
But what about Bauer 6/240? He said he was asking for 5-6 years at $36-40 million AAV. Isn’t that much more insane? I guess it is just posturing but I really hate the distrust between MLB and MLBPA. Why does it happen more in baseball? The problem with this system is players like Springer and Bauer get paid a ton but players that are more that half as good as they are get nothing. From my perspective, that seems to be what the MLBPA wants. They always say they want the biggest contracts for top players first and everything else seems to be an afterthought.
I think he would only get that from the Mets. Can’t blame him for asking/posturing.
Dave , Steve Cohen has achieved his success through his efforts. These Twitters do nothing for the process both these players are entitled to.
That’s a product of free agency and what the market will bear. It’s called capitalism. Nobody has a gun to the owners’ collective heads forcing them to pay these salaries. It’s an imperfect system, but still far better than when there was no free agency in the sport. And by the way, the players you say “get nothing” make a minimum of ~$600k/year with the opportunity to cash in on the big contracts by simply performing. Hard to feel sorry for any major league player.
How do you promote capitalism and yet say you don’t feel sorry for people who aren’t allowed to negotiate their salary? Proof that Americans really just like to see billionaires and don’t care about the rest.
Not sure the two have anything to do with one another.
Players can negotiate their salary, it’s called a signing bonus. Minor leaguers don’t have to play baseball.
Until they hit free agency, MLB players have limited options, but basically they agreed to a non-compete clause, which is standard in capitalistic societies.
But was anything preventing Mike Trout from signing with Japan after high school? He chose to sign a non-compete clause. Do you want to ban non-compete clauses?
They choose to play for MLB teams for many reasons, and they chose to sign those non-compete clauses until they reach free agency.
I registered here to give props for the Anchorman references
Hey… I know that literally zero people will believe this but my dog was going to be the 2nd version of “Baxter” in Anchorman 2: The Legend of Ron Burgundy. I didn’t own my dog at the time. His previous owners took him to the audition. The original Anchorman was filmed a decade before the sequel so the original Baxter had passed. The breed of dog is called a Cairn Terrier. They are around but not super common like some other dogs but for some reason they get a lot of time on television. I see Cairn Terriers on commercials all the time and Toto on the “Wizard of Oz” was a Cairn Terrier. Anyway, my dog was in the process of winning the role for the Anchorman 2 version of “Baxter” but he lost out to a Cairn they liked less because the previous owners didn’t do a great job of making sure my dog Max would bark on command. It took me less than 1 week after I adopted Max to train him to bark on command every time. I know most of you all on the the internet will think this story is BS but it’s true. I feel torn about it because if the previous owners had actually done a decent job then I think I probably would have never met Max. He is has been my only dog for 6 years though so it is what it is. True story though.
Thanks for sharing. I like this.
Heartfelt but off point for this platform
I fart on monkeys. We both have stories to share.
Compelling and rich.
Cheating pays kids!!!! Never forget
They cheated they got busted they were punished move on and get a life
Should all move on burt but they were not punished.
The Astros were fined $5 million, the maximum allowed by the MLB constitution, and forced to forfeit their first- and second-round draft picks in 2020 and 2021. In addition, Luhnow and Hinch were each suspended for the entire 2020 season, including the playoffs.
I mean he’s easily a top 15 player who has shown no signs of slowing down so it’s a little high but not a crazy asking price
The sign that he is “slowing down” is age 31.
Springer is in his prime… The Mets had no qualms about giving deGrom an extension at a similar age in his prime. 6 years might be much but 5 years seems like a good deal
deGrom is a Pitcher and Pitchers tend to age better than sluggers. I do wonder if eventually Houston gets back in on Springer. They’ve done nothing to address the two gaping holes in the Outfield.
Citation needed, friend.
“Pitchers tend to age better than sluggers?” Since when?
Springer’s a player who was drafted out of college at the age of 21 in 2011. He didn’t debut until 2014 (age 24 season). Age is a factor but it’s not the ONLY or even the main factor.
deGrom is a top 5 pitcher in the entire league and a homegrown talent. Springer is probably the 10-20th best position player in the game and comes from somewhere else (ie, it’s tougher to explain to your fan base why you let a guy walk than it is to say you were outbid for someone). Not a super apt comparison.
Also, Mets have a lot of young guys that will need to be locked up soon, Conforto (an OF entering his prime who performed as well as Springer in 2020) chief among them.
Mets’ current hole is starting pitching. Springer is a luxury, not a need.
Nelson Cruz might disagree with that
its not that simple
deGrom has less mileage on him than average MLB player so there’s hope he lasts longer.
Even Dasher and Prancer got old and Santa had to face that fact or perish
NMK2 Less mileage? 2014 He had TJ surgery, in 2016 he had surgery on his Ulnar nerve, In 2018 he missed time with a hyperextended elbow on his pitching arm, Yep, guess he has less mileage since he missed so much time with injuries’
He was a shortstop through much of his collegiate career; that alone limits wear on the arm. He also didn’t throw much in the minors until he was 24. So yes, he had surgeries, but he’s also been healthy since and has fewer innings on his arm than most pitchers his age.
If Nelson Cruz didn’t have a suspension for PED’s on his resume that might mean more.
Too 15? That seems like a big stretch
He’s top 30…not too 15. He’s a top 10 OF for sure.
It is far too high. Let him sit.
Top 15? OF perhaps.
Not that I disagree with anything you said but, 5/110 is what JDM got from Boston in the 2017-18 offseason, with all those opt-outs and I believe quite a few incentives and everyone knew JD was a DH. Springer is of similar age, similar batting value and obviously of more value defensively, Without knowing how COVID will effect the FA market or if the sign stealing will effect his market I don’t see how Springer doesn’t break 5/110.
Count me out at 150. I like closer to 100 and 6 or 7 years. Same with jtr. If not. Sign me up for jbj and a pitch framer.
Which team?
Pitch framing is not a thing. You can have a 12-6 right over the heart of the plate and an umpire like laz Diaz and angel Hernandez will call it a ball. They’re both loud enough to where you can hear them say where the Pitch was high,low ,outside or inside and it can be literally knee high down the middle. Pitch framing isn’t a stat.
lol at 7 yrs for $100M. His AAV will be closer to double that. I do think $150 is too high, but $25M/yr for 4-5 yrs sounds about right.
Not only is pitch framing a thing, it’s been a thing for decades before we decided to give it a name. Just read any discussions with catchers from the 60s snd 70s and you’ll see this concept, even if you refuse to acknowledge it because of those newfangled star nerds and their darn tootin math, has been a deeply imbedded part of gamesmanship since before most on this site were born. And the fact it’s being recognized, to me, is fascinating and a positive step.
@wrek305
pitch framing is a thing though. mlb started tracking certain stats for catchers. I believe there is one for pitch framing, just don’t recall its name
JBJ lol, please stop
Come off it Tommy Sock hop. Statcast has been around miscounting landing shots in boxing for decades. Pretending pitch framing is an accurate description of a catcher’s abilities means you’re only paying attention to half of the solution. Pitch framing can and will hurt a catcher depending on a pitcher. Ask Russell Martin, great pitch framer, how his ratings were affected by RA Dickey.
You can stop your fake outrage.
25 million per is FAR too high in these Coivd times
@wrek
blogs.fangraphs.com/fangraphs-pitch-framing/
It is a stat. And it is being used to calculate WAR and Steamer. Read this blog post at Fangraphs.
THE METS have the richest owner in mlb by far.And he wants to make a splash,150 is very likely
The Mets might also have the smartest owner in MLB. When Alamuto decided to wait to sign he recognized to his organization money is Time and Time is money. Met fans we have one smart Met fan for the teams ownership
It’s a thing but not a stat. Even then Contreras is one of the best at it.
Money is much tighter today than when JDM signed. As good as he’s been, he’s not a top ten – fifteen player at the end of the deal. If teams have the flexibility, they’d be smart to start from loading deals. Won’t change the average for taxes but it would make the player more attractive in the later years if you’re not competitive or the player becomes expendable.
Except you are kind of ignoring the reasons they stretch these contracts out in the first place and it not because they want aging expensive players its because they need the AVV to come down. Your plan doesn’t work in the real world of economics where you don’t pay today for something a player will do 5 years from now, also if a team is willing to pay in that way to make the player more attractive in trade scenarios they would simply take on money in the trade in the form of covering some of the player contract or taking a contract back.
*AAV
I realize that, but again the financial flexibility is now, they can still go 6 years with a team option buyout, either way Springer gets his money if the Jays are serious.
Better to pay fair value before depreciation makes the player worthless. Look at long term car deals. Never good to still have to pay the monthly premium when the car is no longer under warranty. I once took a five year loan and said never again. Three year warranty means a thirty six month deal in my world.
This reminds of me of when JDM wanted well north of 150 and got 110… I think springer will get 125 but no more and the Mets and blue jays aren’t going to up each other to that point anyway
A few million AAV, isn’t going to hand cuff Toronto any time soon, especially if it’s front loaded.
Abg-You don’t watch much hockey do you- front loading happens all the time. 1- Today’s dollars worth more so it benefits the player. 2- Teams with low current salaries-but flush with cash and future higher salary due to in house extensions benefit-Jays prime example. AAV only comes into play for the teams that pass the tax thresholds.
Owners lost a ton of money, they aren’t sure how much more they will lose in 2021. And the CBA negotiations…to me it all signals that Springer is more likely to get 4/100m or 5/120 or so vs the $150m He is asking for.
Not Toronto, they own their cable contract… unlike many other clubs. They’ve only lost gate.
Not true. More and more teams own or have lucrative cable deals. NESN for example hurts ratings wise when Boston is not playing well, Most teams lost at the gate, marketing and media. Not having fans at the stadium made it feel weird for some. The canned fan noise doesn’t sit right with me for example. Strange how in football I don’t miss it but in baseball and basketball I do
That’s only because the Boston Red Sox were a last place team in 2020. Fans stopped watching. That’s the point of owning the channel. Teams get to collect all the TV profits when they are good. They risk losing $ when they suck. NESN was purchased because Boston ownership thought they would never suck. Last place sucks. Boston is in last place now because of Dombrowski. It may have been worth it because he won a championship. In my opinion it was worth it. Unfortunately the Red Sox are in the wake of payroll damage that Dombrowski left. Same thing with the Cubs but the Red Sox are better off in the future. Don’t get mad. This was the plan. Win a World Championship and lose for several years than try to win again. It’s not a bad plan. Just accept your in the throws. Don’t be impatient. The next will likely come.
The Red Sox had been in last in 14 and 15 and such was why DD was hired in the first place. Ownership put alll eggs in the basket to win in 18. Aggressive decision making along with the right person (DD) deciding on the MLB roster created that winning team. Granted he had many roster parts from Sherington’s regime but his decisions put the team over the top. The Dodgers finally won but in a weird year that changed the importance of how to put a team together. NESN ratings last tanked when the team was lousy. I’m expecting Bloom to try to skillfully bring the Six back to glory. He won’t last beyond 22 without the team at least again making the WS again regardless of how strong the farm system gets. I give The Yankees’ Cashman credit. The team hasn’t won it all since 2009 but if they weren’t constantly winning, YES ratings would also suffer. If that happens, he’s gone. Ratings and secret books of owning the networking (masking the true value) contributes to marketing successes and profits.
Would you like to go out for a nice seafood dinner and discuss more of your thoughts on Springer? I don’t plan on calling you again after, though.
150MM to play ball, huh? Not bad, not bad at all…
125 isn’t high at all. 134 career wtc+, that’s what you pay for. The bonus is 250-400 games in center.
You should see what the owners make, just ask Preller, bro. :p
He might know.
Great post… I’m thinking the best he might get from anyone is 5/125 w a club option for a 6th year
I really do not see these “declining defensive skills”…
With the exception of 2018, he has always posted positive DRS in CF, last year was really impressive with 6 DRS in under 400 innings. I cannot say for certain, but looking at his over all production for 2018 he appears to have struggled with injuries.
I’m not going to pretend like I know a whole lot about the Astros or Minute maid park but it seems he struggles a little more in a corner OF spot than CF.
I think an average year, asking for 5/150 would not be unreasonable… this year I like 5/125 is reasonable but I’m not sure it’s attainable. It’s still “early” in the off-season but teams seem more apt to go the savings route than paying a free agent.
So you have a CFer who in 2019 hit like Pete Alonso during Alonso’s 53 HR rookie season (a little better, actually), while playing above average defense, but “even 5/125m seems high” to you?
Springer’s 7th in wRC+ since the beginning of 2019 and of the guys ahead of him only Trout is superior by position and defense at that position. If Springer was 26 he’d be getting Betts’ contract. .
You might also want to consider that it takes 3 years of defensive numbers to equal one year at the plate, so believing Springer to be merely average in CF because of just 60 games in CF is like taking 20 games at the plate seriously–and representative of a new level of hitting skill.. It isn’t.
Yeah, but he’s not 26 and those 5 years make a huge difference.
He cheated at least in one year and had the benefit of a juiced ball in another. Be careful falling in love with his bat, especially considering he’d be moving from a hitter’s park to one that still benefits the pitcher even after the fences were moved in years ago.
not for an A.L. Team with a DH spot available down the road….Cruz is 40 and is still racking at DH.
Despite their ultimate misery with every huge contract, large market owners continue to dole them out. No matter what amount Springer signs for, it will be viewed as a disaster within 2 or 3 years.
Obviously these are all negotiation numbers, People shouldn’t be so shocked that they are astronomical.
As a Rangers fan….it makes too much sense for the Mets to money-whip both Springer and Bauer there this offseason. The rotation would compete with SD as the best in baseball and Springer would bring the leadership and experience the Mets need. I know he is part of the cheating organization but I have never questioned his ability. Go get em both Cohen!
We won’t get both bc we have to look at the future too. We need to save money for syndergaard/conforto.
That’s why you front load the contract….
I like both Syndergaard and Conforto just beware they have history of injury stints
Thor is overrated. He’s like eye candy that you undress at home and ask yourself why you wined and dined her.
Thor is not overrated. He has had one bad year and that was the year before he got hurt. They year wasn’t even horrible just bad in his standards…
doesnt matter if you front load the contract unless end game is trading them later or want them basically pouting mid way through contract they want more if they are doing well. In the end the tax hit is spread even over life of contract.
150 seems a bit much but i would say 20 a year with easy to reach incentives for the additional 5m per year such as like 300-400 ab. If he flops saves a few min in the end and maybe a club option with buyout at end to stretch out the tax hit.
There’s a difference between bad and overrated. Thor isvery overrated. This doesn’t mean he’s bad, but he gets talked about like an ace. It’s been a long time since he was an ace. He has injury history. He’s a solid 2-3 guy. He’s going to want ace money.
He isn’t an ace but for you to say he is a solid 2-3 is also very wrong. He is a very good two that most teams would love to have as their two… how many teams have a better two?
2019 Syndergaard had a 4.28 ERA. Plenty of better or equivalent #2s out there. I prefer Wheeler to Syndergaard for example. Syndergaard has a higher ceiling though. It’s just that he’s been consistently trending downward. So it’s tough to say who the real Syndergaard is. Could be a real good #2 or just a solid #3. Either way, I think he’s nowhere near as good as the media makes him out to be.
So you just going to ignore his career era???
I’m old school. Thor has never pitched 200 innings nor won 15 games in a season. To me your paying for hope. Add in the injury he’s recovering from and I say he’s overrated.
Of course the reason is to pay him less as he ages so he’s more attractive if you want to deal him.To some teams the tax threshold is something they will never approach so he becomes more valuable to a Tampa, Cleveland, etc. towards the end of the deal if you’re having a down season or have a replacement waiting in the wings.
Agreed Von.
@MetsFan not at all, but what’s troubling is it’s a steady decline since 2016. It’s not like he had an off year and bounced back. So in essence his career ERA keeps going up. At the same time, the velocity is still there. So as a Mets fan you hope for a return to form.
He hasn’t bounce back bc he hasn’t had another year after his “off” year. In 2018 he had a great year. 2019 was his “bad” year. And he didn’t pitch last year.. y’all just hate him bc he is a Met.
@MetsFan22 Nope. I just read stats. His are trending down steadily. That with his injury history are two major red flags IMO. It’s why I think the Mets really need another reliable starter this offseason.
What stats are you reading. He has had one bad year in 2019 dude….
How is this difficult? His career stats consistently dipped since 2016. That’s my point. Downward trend. What stats am I looking at? All of them. Syndergaard has a high ceiling, but he’s trending doen and is an injury risk.
So 3 really good years and one bad one is a downward trend??? Bro he has had one bad year.. stop looking for things.
“Stop looking at things.” Sums it up for me. Ignore the numbers in front of your face.
I see 4 very good years. One of the 4 he got injured but he was pitching great to start. And 2019 where he had an off year. Your completely wrong on this one.
Noah’s issue is he isn’t a pitcher he’s a high fastball thrower. Great tools, but those guys always get hit.
I see 1 amazing year. 1 great year. 1 good year. 1 bad teae. All in a row. Hence trending downward. I don’t think he’s bad. I don’t think he’s 2016 Thor. I don’t think he’s bad. I think the Mets will have a tough decision on Thor going forward.
Could you name 5 two’s who would be an advantage for game 2 of a playoff series???
Do you just fail to grasp what trending downward means or are you a troll?
Even crediting Syndergaard with his minor league innings in 2015, over the past 6 seasons he only averages 124 IP / year with an ERA+ of 119. That’s good. I want that guy on my team, but I don’t consider him an ace either.
That’s James Paxton from 2017-2019 (120 ERA+), only in 25 innings a year fewer than Paxton.
Believing Noah is an ace is like the affliction suffered by Met fans (and probably Alderson, unfortunately) who consider Marcus Stroman a #2 pitcher even though in 3 of the last 5 seasons Stroman hasn’t been able to put together an ERA+ over 97. Even if you go back only as far as 2017 and forget about 2020, which is extremely favorable to Stroman, Stroman’s ERA+ is also 120 in an average of 163 IP / year. If you include 2020, when Stroman didn’t just decide to sit out the year due to Covid but had a significant calf injury, and Stroman’s average IP / year 2017-2020 is 122, making him almost identical to Syndergaard’s career numbers.
At some point we have to take a player’s results seriously. Is Thor capable of pitching like an ace? Sure. Is he an ace? No, and he’s not all that close,
It’s hard to say what’s a fair salary by current MLB standards, but if you knew you’d get over the next 4 years 124 innings a season with an ERA+ of 119, what would you pay him by AAV? 13m? 16m? He’s also going into his decline phase, he can’t stay healthy, and he’s used up his “free” Tommy John.
You can’t pay him anywhere close to what an ace gets.
I never said thor is a ace or stroman is a 2 but Thor is one of the best 2 in baseball and stroman is one of the best 3 in baseball..
@MetsFan22 I wasn’t replying to you, fwiw (so your comment makes sense in that regard), but “one of the best 2 in baseball” doesn’t average 124 innings a season, career, while “one of the best 3 in baseball” doesn’t hit the Under more often than not on the question, “pitches to an 98 ERA+ of better in any given season after 2015.”
Neither of those definitions is remotely credible for “one of the best” 2s or 3s.
@MetsFan22. Name five #2’s that are better? That would be easy as there are three in the Mets (NL East) division. Not sure who is considered #1 on these teams but I’ll take Nola/Wheeler, Soroka/Fried and Sherzer/Strasberg all over Thor in any playoff series over the next couple years. I say the next couple because Sherzer is aging but I would probably take Corbin over him too so that wouldn’t even matter.
Well said.
In addition the question, however unintentionally, is loaded very much in Syndergaard’s favor as it assumes he’s healthy enough to pitch in “any playoff series” even though particularly over the last 3 or 4 seasons he’s the least durable,of all the pitchers you mention.
LOL!!
Fired is getting overrated after 60 games
Wheeler was behind Thor for a reason
Stras in prime off course but he couldn’t feel the ball last time. I doubt he comes back the same. But if does that’s the only one I could see
@MetsFan last I’ll say as it’s pointless. I’ll take Wheeler over Syndergaard. They are trending in opposite directions. I’m not even counting 2020 (and Wheeler was great in 2020). You’ll ignore stats and probably respond with Syndergaard’s great 2016, but Wheeler has been better the last few years. I will happily admit that Syndergaard has the higher ceiling, but he hasn’t hit that ceiling since 2016, and he’s showing no signs of improvement. I would gladly take Syndergaard on my team. He’s a good pitcher. He’s not the best #2 in baseball. He’s not the best #2 in his division.
@MetsFan22. You haven’t paid much attention to Fried I see. I’ll take him all day every day and twice on Sunday over Thor and right now it’s really not even close. But even if you discount Fried the Braves have Morton as their 3-4 (depending on Anderson). I’ll take him over Thor too. Would probably take Anderson as well but it’s too early for that right now.
I’m not taking Wheeler over Noah. Sorry, but that ain’t happening. Didn’t happen when they were teammates, either. I always thought Wheeler had the best stuff when he was with the Mets, he just couldn’t maintain it and be consistent. He began showing it as he matured, but that also came with less risk and more control, thus taking some of the heat and movement off his fastball.
@padam You’re right abour Wheeler. He’s a different pitcher now. He throws for contact and induces douvle plays. I think that’s led to mire consistency and better numbers. Noah still has the gas, but his ERA is going up. Give me Wheeler over Syndergaard right now, but I wouldn’t blame anyone for gambling on Noah. His ceiling is much higher. Wheeler was just on example I was using, and it’s certainly debatable, but my main point is, NoH is not the best #2 in the league, let alone the division. Still solid, but trending down until he proves me wrong.
He’s right about Thor man. He’s been getting worse for some reason.
The Mutts, a small market team in the middle of New York! Big spenders! They got the best back-up catcher money can buy! Impressive! Thor isn’t much more than a hairdo at this point. The Mutts are really winning the offseason, as predicted by their mouth-breathing fans. No Bauer, no Springer. LOL METS!!!!
Thor is way overated. Can’t count on him either. Too injury prone. Mets fans need to relax.
I just don’t see a Mets contract for Syndergaard beyond this year.
I wonder how many people realize he’s won a grand total of 24 games since 2016? His stats are trending in the wrong direction and MIGHT pitch in 10 games this coming year. Even if he proves himself healthy in the 2nd half, what’s that going to worth?
Let’s say he wins 5 games in 2021. That’s a pathetic 29 wins in FIVE YEARS.
He weightlifted himself out of a full season.
He refused to pitch to the starting catcher.
He can’t hold a runner on and typically is among the leaders in stolen bases against.
He rarely pitches beyond 6 innings.
How many more years should the Mets commit to this guy, 4? Five? He hasn’t produced since 2016. As a Mets fan, I hope they let him walk.
@jim stern As much as I have reservations about Syndergaard, the issue isn’t what he can’t do so much as it is what he’s *likely* to do in the next 2, 3, 4 years, and whether he and the Mets can arrive at a fair division of risk.
The Wilpons were surely among the worst possible team owners for a guy like Noah who needs clear guidelines wrt training, needs a persuasive, competent medical staff to steer him, and needs an analytics division to help him figure out how to harness his enormous talent.
If the Mets think they can foster his skills he could be worth 2-3 times a 4/55m deal. Or maybe that deal needs to include well-paying vesting years. In either case, given how the team will be pressed in the next few years to put a contender on the field for less than the LT threshold, they probably have to consider an extension very seriously.
I see them making an offer to keep him, just not something that would be ridiculous.
Couldn’t agree more.
Makes no sense – Next year the free agents are a much much better crop and Im sue Cohen knows theres always a lot to learn the first year on the job- You could look no further than his own recent house with Broadie too see how making an entry splash goes-
If I was a Mets fans id be rooting for subtle value deals and looking to leverage my money in trades from teams who are shedding payroll where I have the upper hand to begin with – Free agency is never a good way in optimizing value even in these strange times
Leverage is the key word here, you sign both thats gone
They need to look at Philly from the day they extended Osdrubel and what happened after as a what not to do moving forward- Patience is needed
Get em Ross!
Oooo …., red snapper!! Very tasty!!!
Hard pass Blue Jays. Springer is wanted, not needed.
Agreed. If the money isn’t right move on. Don’t overpay on years or $$$
You guys realize flexibility/contention is our goal, right?
I just want them to outbid a club with that bird in hand, Springer should be worth it.
Yes. You do realize the Jays need pitching and an INF, right?
You want them to outbid another club for a player playing a position they do not need to address? This is a problem. Blue Jays need a 3B and two SP and you want an OF? Signing Springer gets them, where exactly? At .500? Maybe?
Springer isn’t worth $30-mil per season for 5 years.
Bingo! Jays do not need Springer! Allocate $(bad Canadian dollars too!) for SP & Corner INF! Plenty on trade market as a better bet!
Coulda had kim for cheap cheap cheap, atkins is not using his noggin. Doesnt even have to be amazing for it to be a good deal. He would have to be worse than Randal Grichuk for that deal to be a bad one.
Maybe pitchers will be more willing to sign if they see a real center fielder behind them instead of Grichuk. Who wants to sign with a team whose plodding outfield will raise your ERA by half a run? Better be a long contract of you’ve killed your earning potential for your next contract.
If that’s true, Smuz, sign JBJ to less years and less money. Better defensively.
Pitchers ready to sign if that happens? Only if the money is right. Which takes out your argument.
Jays have 109.3 Mil available before even touching the luxury tax, they could throw out 80 Mil in AAV this season and still be 30 Mil shy of the luxury tax. No reason they can not add Springer and one of Realmuto, Turner or DJL and still get pitching through a trade and Free agency. Next off season 24 Mil more is freed up with the expiry of Ray and Roark’s contracts and the 4 mil on the books for Tulo..
For 2021, fine. 2022? Maybe fine but questions will arise. Your plan hurts the team in 2023.
WAGJH… And who said they can’t sign a SP and 3B, sure wasn’t me? Toronto needs to fill a few holes and they have the cash to do it… there’s plenty of options still available. CF is a position that needs to be addressed, how they do it is still unknown. I sure as hell won’t be upset if the Birds land him. How about we see what our FO does, I trust them over a random poster laying on his snark, .500 please!
Bluebirds – don’t get it twisted; Springer is a wanted player. But not needed at this time.
Your snarky comment came first. Here I am focusing on actual problem positions and you are too offended to take a good, hard look at the reality of the Blue Jays current roster.
Better to pass on Springer and overpay a bit on DJL and Bauer as they meet significant needs. Grichuk is passable in CF and Jays will have a better timeline on Martin at the end of the season
Maybe the White Sox could sign his brother-in-law to help their chances
Bingo!
“Given the Blue Jays’ affordable young core, they seem less likely to be concerned with the luxury barrier than the Mets, who have several expensive stars already scattered about the roster.”
Toronto is not signing anyone. They always wait a wait for some kind of bargain and that why no ones signs with them. What they don’t understand is that they have to over pay and n order to get people to Toronto
Ryu?
Martin?
They didn’t have a choice but to.
lol
Ryu’s deal may not have been an overpay based on its own merits, but the Jays overpaid compared to what other teams were offering, namely by giving him a 4th year, and that’s precisely why they got him. Let’s be honest, he’s not choosing the Jays over the Dodgers if the offers were similar.
It’s the exchange rate & taxes!!
How does exchange rate hurt? They are paid in $US. And taxes in Toronto are pretty similar to NY
exchange rate? you really think every Jays offer is in C$ or something?
Rogers is a Canadian company working with Canadian dollars. They deal with the exchange. Player salaries are set in US dollars.
I don’t think there’s any way the Blue Jays will pay Springer that much money. That’s almost twice as much as the largest free agent deal they’ve ever signed. They’ve only topped the $100 million mark on a contract once, and that was the extension for Vernon Wells which was $126 million for 7 years.
I didn’t think there was any way Fisher would still be on a major league roster or that Robbie Ray would command $8-mil for a season or that Travis Shaw would be paid more than $2-mil last year. At least the Jays are unpredictable, I guess.
I hear Kendrys Morales and Justin Smoak are available.
The blu jays are not signing anyone
Fascinating insight here, Jast
Technically wrong as the Jays have already signed one player.
Yet technically CORRECT as the “blu jays” are not a thing.
Perhaps Jast is a secret genius paradoxical theorist?
He graduated from Vizionaire’s School of Good Typing Stuff.
He got an A+ in keyboard management? Impressive.
Me in college. Me major in English.
Id rather have Dj at 4/100 than anything to do with Springer at 150, idc if its a 20 year deal
Yanks playing this right, let these guys unload on Springer/Bauer then swoop in late for Dj on your terms- I dont see 5 teams out there willing to go above the QO offer AAV money per year on a guy right now – This is a huge game of chicken and the stakes of losing is being able to grab a buncha 1 yr bargains later. Best be hoping your Gm stands tall in these times and sets the terms rather than having to cave on an overpay which happens all the time in typical years
They aren’t the only two teams in on Bauer. Neither is even the favorite (I’d call the two L.A. teams co-favorites at this point). What seems most likely is the Mets decide they won’t be outbidden on Springer, and get him. The Angels or the Dodgers grab Bauer, who probably wouldn’t mind being in his hometown if the money is all the same. That leads the Blue Jays and they’ll feel burned and go wild on DJ, and the Yanks will have to decide whether to match. If they do, the Blue Jays flip to trading for Lindor or Arenado.
Dodgers are not signing Bauer as much as he wants it to be so
Your logic is easy to follow tho and I dont disagree- My bigger point was Dont overspend on any player this offseason you will not be left out in the cold-
Wouldnt it just be better for the Jays to save the capital and try to sign Lindor next year ?
Yeah Bauer isn’t gonna be a Dodger…Angel, maybe but I think the Mets are the frontrunner for him
The Jays will end up with JTR and will deal Janssen and Kirk for SPs like Musgrove and Gray
They are too cheap for that
He’s coming for that Cohen money.
He’s worth something around 100 million over a 5-6 year term. Anything more is definitely an overpay.
Since two of the only teams in the MLB with tons of money to spend are bidding on the same player, I fully expect an overpay here.
No one ever will take a discount to play for the Mets when the owner is worth 3x as much as other owners
??? Discount? Teams and players are in unchartered territory as everyone hopes 2021 returns to normal but a) there is no guarantee and b) Cohen has made more money than Boras and all agents combined. Who’s the better businessman? The market fluctuates and other than for the very best, players will not get what was available just two years ago. Six years? No way. To me, 4 for $90m. If he wants more, the average goes down. Teams aren’t backloading long deals like they used to unless you’re a HOF talent. Springer is good but he’s not going to Cooperstown without buying a ticket.
In 2020, a 31 year old superstar ceiling guy should be clearing $200M easily, but for some reason nowadays salaries go down while profits go up.
Blame the virus, as revenues were down, not up. Also blame the new statistical analysis teams that show the decline of players. In 2010, he would have been worth that, but too much is known in 2020. No way is he worth it.
Blame it on the Goose, got you feeling loose. Blame it on the ‘tron, got you in the zone. Blame it on the … anyone?
Your comment looks better with autotune.
Go look at contracts over $200M of position players aged 31 or higher at time of signing the contract. List the players that have played well on those contracts.
You’d have one argument for Alex Rodriguez… and I think we know why.
Springer is not on the level of those players that have signed $200M contracts to begin with. You’re deluded.
But why are you comparing revenue from decades ago to 2020?
I’m deluded. Riiight….
If you’re going to only bring up revenue, then your argument is horrendous. “…but for some reason nowadays salaries go down while profits go up.”
Covid-19 absolutely demolished last season. It’s going to significantly impact next season. It will probably impact the following season.
Also, decades ago?
Miguel Cabrera – 2016
Albert Pujols – 2012
Robinson Cano – 2014
Joey Votto – 2014
Alex Rodriguez received two $200M+ contracts and were the only ones given out before 2012. Not even a decade ago, sweet pea :)
I wonder what it will do to a clubhouse, paying a cheat 25-30M a year….. That stench hasnt gone away.
Interesting how his best two years have come after the cheating occurred.
At that price, both teams should just walk away. They won’t, but they should. It only takes one of them to go a different direction and he has no leverage.
There is no way anyone signing Springer @ $150 million won’t be choking on that contract at the end of it.
As a fan of a small market team, I urge everyone else to go for it!
Agreed. Who knows? This could just be smoke trying to gain more interest and competition.
Come on looie, How does asking for 150 Mil contract generate more interest and competition? take the Mets sitting roughly 60 Mil shy of the luxury tax an AAV of 30 Mil eats up half their cushion.
Just once, wouldn’t it be nice to see a cheater NOT prosper.
Guy get a WS ring and possbile 100 million plus fortune.
Sure, he is a good player but when, if ever, is someone in these spots truly held accountable.
No shame, no consequence, nada. over and over.
I agree, I dont want any of those guys on my team even if its at a bargain basement deal in all honestly-
I dont know how much that resonates in team offices but Im sure it has some effect
Would love to see him shunned and he’s certainly doing his part by asking for 150 !
Cap, you already have people that did/doing similar things. Don’t pretend it was only a select few players from one team. No different than the PED stuff.
It’s baseball. It’s literally the worst sport when it comes to cheating, both in the past and in the present. They’re never going to change their stripes.
I’ve said it before. Those cheating committed a fraud. Against the league, the opposition, the fans, their team owners and yes even their teammates since money paid to one could theoretically be instead paid to another. DAs should go after them criminally. It’s really a form of “gray” collared crime if neither “white” or “blue” truly fits. Look at how the cost of watching in person or on the tube has well outpaced inflation since the 90s when PED use exploded in baseball. A correlation or coincidence? Fans have paid big time for their cheating.
meanwhile a player a weak is getting popped for PEDs every week in the NFL but rarely stars and no one sees it as an issue.
.Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and A-Rod were all drummed out of baseball. They were all above average players. Bonds was great. A-Rods last full season his OPS+ was 129.
I find it crazy that people who want to put these guys in the Hall after they were drummed out of baseball.
Cheaters don’t always win, I’d like to keep it that way.
“Drummed out”… in their 40s, hah. Bonds was a defensive and baserunning liability showing a clearly declining (though still good) bat, A-Rod had a terrible final season, Clemens had a mediocre final season. Of the three, the only reasonable case that they could’ve continued their careers is Bonds as a DH…. but 43 year old DH-only players with injury issues and a strong potential for their bat to fall off a cliff and substantial salary expectations aren’t in great demand.
No one would touch Bonds. Bonds OPS+ his last year in the game was 169.
Yes, he was drummed out of baseball. Are you serious?
What’s sad is A-Rod got back in at ESPN and was able to use the wealth he amassed and made a competitive offer to buy the Mets.
I find the ESPN crew unwatchable.
I don’t even know who the woman is, but I watched the Angels opening day last year on ESPN, she went on and on about how David Fletcher strikes out too much.
Still KK with his 2 years $26mil guaranteed over 2 seasons (including a buyout fee) is a better option. He still gives some pop (tho his low .220 avg isn’t sexy) but his Defense in CF will be a + to any pitcher on the mound for the Mets.
Mets should go for defense first in CF – sign JBJ or trade for Kiermaier and get a decent prospect while taking of his salary. This allows them to spend more on pitching – Bauer and a back of the rotation guy like Odorizzi who will eat innings. Keep Lugo in the pen for high leverage situations.
Degrom, Bauer, Stroman, Syndergaard, Odorizzi, Peterson, Gsellman. I’m probably missing someone.
This makes sense to me. Pitching is the need here. I don’t understand why they’re so set on Springer.
The great Steven Matz. MetsFan22 has him as the 2nd best pitcher on the mid-90’s Braves.
KK in a full season is out for big chunks most years. JBJ would “amaze” the Amazins’ fan base.
I’m not enamored with Springer (hate cheaters), but JBJ isn’t exactly inspiring. If that’s the option,I’d rather roll with Nimmo since he’s already on-board and won’t cost a red cent.
Is there anybody on the market between Springer and Bradley?
MLB teams and players were vocal about Houston Astros players being given immunity during their scandal investigation; and none of the players being penalized for their actions.
If no one signed any of the Astros free agents not only would it send a strong message but would hit them in their pocketbooks; where it hurts.
It’s a chance to let the Houston Astros free agents know your team doesn’t need “CHEATERS!”
Zzzzz
So you are against Nelson Cruz signing?
I don’t know if letting the Astros re-sign all their star free agents to cheap deals due to no market competition is the best strategy lol.
JD Goat. That’s a great retort.
Yes, my message board warrior friend, that’s totally realistic and not ridiculous in the least.
Give him offers that can be justified to avoid a claim of collusion, He turns them down? Let him or others go to Japan for even less. 2021 will be another financial disaster compared to what clubs projected a few years ago. Even with a vaccine around the corner. It’s a huge corner and if MLB is lucky with no significant snags, maybe 50% attendance by next October.
This explains why he has not signed yet. Both sides waiting for someone to blink. This is going to drag on…..
I still think it’s a mistake for the Mets to prioritize Springer over Bauer
Bauer overall is not that good.
Springer is.
Hmmmm is that a bit about Bauer????
Dan… You got some explaining to do after that comment…
Most objective measurements would prove that he’s above average at a minimum
Both players are good, Bauer was the best pitcher in a shortened 2020, But in his 8 years before 2020 he was a career 4.15 ERA pitcher. Dont get me wrong he is still a good pitcher and would fit great into the #2 spot behind DeGrom
Plus he had a very good 2018, and was doing decently in 2019 before getting traded.. and not everyone does well switching leagues mid-season… he was a big prospect who took a while to develop, but his peripherals are damn good so I think he’ll be a solid 2 like you said
Bauer, in 2018 and 2020, was as good as deGrom’s average across 2018, 2019, and 2020. Look at their ERA+ numbers for those five years, and their peripherals (K/9, BB/9, HR/9, H/9, and Whip) in the context of Bauer pitching most of his starts in the AL.
We know that Bauer’s upside in 2 of the last 3 seasons is deGrom’s peak, where deGrom is currently the best pitcher in MLB, with a career ERA+ that’s 3rd overall among starting pitchers in all MLB history. That’s how good Bauer is at his best.
At his worst in the last 4 seasons, by ERA+, Bauer was as good as Zack Wheeler’s 2018-2019.
–In short, Bauer at his best is peak deGrom. At his worst he’s peak Zack Wheeler just before Wheeler signed for 5/118m.
Fwiw, throw out anything from 2016 and earlier. No projection system goes back 5 years and longer.
Your 60% quote is a total overestimation. At that level of income, any athlete will have a team of accounts and tax lawyers finding every possible way to lower their tax liability. Figuring out how much a professional athlete pays in taxes is quite complex, definitely not something some anonymous internet keyboard monkey knows much about.
The Mets need to land Springer now that Cohen owns the team. If they don’t get him you will see the Money Ball coming out in Alderson and company. Right now, they ‘are way behind the Dodgers and Padres, and really can’t catch them. They are wasting the deGrom years.
@slider32 Even if they sign Springer there won’t be any more significant additions of the kind of player that drives you to the postseason and helps you win the WS once you get there.
The rotation, at best, is going to be deGrom-Stroman-Odorizzi- followed by Peterson, who had 49 lucky ip above a weak season at AA, a dismal retread like Matz who at his best isn’t even a #5 on a contender, and hoping that Syndergaard will come back and throw 100 innings of league average ball.
Alderson has somehow convinced Cohen that the Mets window is 2023 or after, when it’s 2021 and 2022. Sad, really.
I know they’re not quite the same player, and one precedent does not guarantee a failure here.
But to stoke conversation, take a look at the parallels here…
– Jason Bay prior to signing with the Mets: .280 BA .376 OBP 131 OPS+ 185 HR (1st year w/ Mets was age-31 season — born Sept. 20)
– George Springer: .270 AVG .361 OBP 131 OPS+ 174 HR (will be entering age 31 season/ born Sept. 19)
Bay coming off a season in which he posted an OPS+ of 134 and Springer, 140.
Again, just for fun lol I just thought this was a bit funny.
You can’t meaningfully compare above average CFers with slow LFers with major injury histories. Nor do you go back more than 3 seasons, 4 at most, when comparing or projecting.
Yeah, take a look back at my first sentence^.
Jason Bay actually wasn’t slow — not a burner sure, but he was not slow. Bays’ injuries woes didn’t really begin until he went to the Mets too.
Again, like I said in my comment, just wanted to highlight the parallels.
Oh jeez. Do I have to apologize for being white again. I’m getting really good at it. Seems like everything is my skin colors fault. Isn’t that what we are trying to get away from? So confusing!
This was in response to an earlier post of some idiot complaining about white people. Sorry it doesn’t fit down here on the mobile app lol
its always great trying to put an idiot in their place and then they go delete their original comment and make you look like one.
Ha
Springer will sign with Jays and mets will end up not getting anyone lmao. @Metsfan22 will be mad
Haven’t you heard? Even with all the moves the Padres have made, the Mets went out and got freakin’ McCann! Thus, they’re at least as good as the Padres and way better than the Braves!
Twinsfan…60%? Did you take off your shoes to do the math?
No way Springer. But I can’t blame him for trying. Player salary is nothing more than a pyramid scheme, at some point the whole thing will collapse and that could happen sooner than later if the fans don’t come back in droves.
Springer wants an overpay. Kudos to him. That is going to be tough to get in this economic climate entering a second COVID impacted season.
$150 Million HA
*Bang
The Blue Jays front office won’t bend to please the public. I kind of admire them for sticking to their plans although it can be frustrating. If Springer gets overpaid then good for him. I think he’s be a good fit in Toronto but I won’t be sad if he chooses elsewhere. Which brings up the other point in that Toronto doesn’t even have a home for next year. Getting players to sign is hard enough in a normal world. Which is why I don’t know why they didn’t meet Kims demands if he truly had Toronto on the top of his list.
Yeah homie, he’s be a good fit nah mean…
I’m on an iPhone it autocorrects. Why do people still get on people who make spelling or grammar errors on the internet comment sections? But good one, you got me.
I thought it was funny. I have the same problem. Wasn’t intending to offend you.
Because screw him. Let the Padres have him and his no-minors clause. That’s Weak with a capital W. Earn your roster spot like every other player, don’t demand a team keep you up regardless of how you’re performing.
Twinsfan: While you do not seem to be using your cerebral cortex effectively, I’ll try to appeal to that part of your brain:
Combined income tax in NYC for earners above 10M: 47%
Same for TOR: about 46%
Please note that 46<60
As your cognitive functions may be impaired, the “<“ above symbol is pronounced as “less than.”
I can’t see these top 3 FA’s ( DJ, Bauer, Springer) getting normal market prices. Looks as if teams are being super patient/cautious during these pandemic times.
Now, the second tier FA’s might get market value or close to it, thereafter the top guys are all scooped up. Then some teams might just be a little desperate to compete, and to fill out there roster needs.
Has to be signed for 4/5 years at 25 mil 5/6 years at 20 mil. Otherwise it’s one of the toughest signings for a center fielder who will only man that spot for another two or three years and then be an average corner outfielder. I get needing him now for the Mets. I get an overpay to an extent. But don’t be stupid here Mets!
150 is insane for Springer. As a Jays fan I hope they don’t do that, and i don’t expect them to. They’re ready to be aggressive but they are too conservative by nature for this. He’s 31!!
I am not interested in signing Springer. He is another aging vet for tons of money. Any money that the Mets have should be spent on pitching (Bauer). If we do sign him that puts Dom Smith, our best hitter last year on the bench. What sense does that make. I could argue that Nimmo is a better hitter in a much tougher park and did not cheat.
Why would that put Smith on the bench? If you’re assuming Smith is an outfielder, you’ve got a problem. And there’s no need. He and Pete can share 1B/DH, or Dom could go out for a pitcher (or Pete, if you can find a good enough pitcher), which seems like the best outcome.
Excellent post Don. I totally agree. One could also argue that Dom hit better than Springer last year and has a bigger upside with his bat.
Only way the Mets should sign Springer is if there is a DH in the NL in 2021.
5/125 for Springer does not seem unreasonable. The only way I’d go to 150 is with a vesting option year triggered by ABs in the 5th year (ensuring both that he’s healthy and still a full-time player). With maybe a $5m buyout on the option, so 130 guaranteed.
Yep.
He is going to earn a higher AAV than Upton, Heyward and Myers whether it’s the right decision or not (puke)
If that’s what Springer demanded, I am for the first time ok with Reinsdorf not paying it. Still not ok with him skipping right down to Eaton rather than going after Brantley, Rosario, or even Pederson, but $150M/6 is at least a year too long.
Hey the Jays gave Bautista and extra year at 18M, why not give Springer extra years?
The right contract would be 4/$100. Will that get it done? Not likely.
Jays are going nowhere without 2 more starters, one elite and one very good, First things first.
This is going to end in one of those compromises where the team gets a lower price and the player gets an opt-out.
His asking price is insane but that’s the name of the game start high and hopefully they find a middle ground. I wouldn’t go more than 5 years and over 120-130 and I think that’s Mets FOs max price IMO.
At 31+ at the time they signed a contract, only 3 players are on active contracts worth $25mil+/year over 5+ seasons and 2 are pitchers: Paul Goldschmidt (5/$26), Strasburg (7/$35), and Greinke (7/$34.4).
Springer is already the second highest paid CF in baseball at $21/year. And it’s tough to say he’s closer to Trout at $35.5/year than Cain at $16/year. I think he’s making about what he should be making at $21/year and this is all negotiating tactics to make sure he keeps his $20mil ticket and maybe get a small pay bump.
Seemingly, MLB pockets are hurting and the teams that can spend don’t really have much of a need or are undesirable landing spots.
$25mil/year and 4 years is fair, so is $21/year over 5 but either way his price will likely be at about $100mil total. Unless a bidding war ensues that’s about what I expect him to sign for.
Someone mention a vesting option. I think that’s a fair clause to add on for both parties. Give him that extra year if he earns it.
I’ll tell you that I’d rather have Tommy Pham, Max Kepler, Kevin Kiermaier all under $9mil than allocate more than double that to George Springer. Heck even $16mil to LoCain sounds like a better option.
Springer at 4/$100M would be a good deal for both the player and the team. They can front load the deal @ 30/30/20/20 so he can be tradable later on in the term if it’s not working out. Maybe tack on a 5th year, $20M vesting option too, but it would need to be a fairly difficult option to reach. If Springer doesn’t like this, give him opt outs after years 2 & 3. These players and agents feel like they are worth more than what the market dictates, so give him the choice to opt out in his age 33 season and see if he can do better than the 2/$40 remaining on his deal. If he continues to rake and play above average defense, he probably would opt out, but that would be a gamble on his part. Guaranteeing him 5 or 6 years is not good business and I just don’t see it happening. Neither the Mets nor the Jays are overly devoid of OF talent and can easily get by with what they have on their roster today. So Springer does not really have an interested team that is desperate for his services. He’s an obvious improvement over Grichuk & Nimmo but not enough to warrant a $150M investment. All signs point to Springer having to adjust his asking price vs. one of these teams over-reaching and paying him $150M. The only thing that could change this would be if a team like Detroit wants to bring him in as a mentor to their younger players but that seems like a long shot at best. 4/$100 with a chance to move it to 5/$120 feels much more likely/reasonable than the $150M+ he is looking for.
I think if he’s not going to get his asking price, an opt out after ’22 makes a ton of sense. Take a lower deal now like 4/100 with an opt out and then when all the labor uncertainty settles a little, you can make a more informed decision.
I’d be concerned about those opt-outs. Part of the appeal for Springer (ignoring the cheating) is his centerfield defense. He’s already 31 and waiting 2-3 years may have him beginning the slide. Is anyone going to hand a 34-year-old a mega deal to play centerfield long term? Maybe to shift over to a corner, but then you lose the CF premium and several million in the process.
IMHO, it’s unlikely he would leverage those opt-outs unless he was having consecutive MVP seasons and wanted to gamble.
I think I’m thinking from the player’s perspective here. 4/$100m seems low but might simply be what the market will bear right now with so much uncertainty. If he can get the opt out in there, the team gets him for the couple of years that they really want him for and maybe for the full term. He wouldn’t need a mega deal to choose to opt out if the economic situation improves, just better than the 2/$40m (in Dorothy’s situation above) or 2/$50m if a more even paygrade. If he doesn’t leverage the opt out, that’s fine. I think it’s one way to bridge the uncertainty gap and move towards a deal. I think all the top multi year guys should be asking for an opt out after ’22 if their price points are going to come down from their asking prices.
George Springer is great fielder and would look good in a Jays uniform, however he’s 31 and looking for a 6 yr deal at 25 million per season. The question is are the Jays that close to being top contender, Remember as each year passes players over 30 tend to drop off (age has a nasty habit of doing that.
What Jays lacked was a good defensive center field and Springer has the glove and bat for right now. I think I’d be more interested in Jackie Bradley Jr. He is premiere defensive fielder although he does lack in hitting but he is younger and cheaper and I look back at Baustista who was a back-up right fielder until the Jays got him and he got to play everyday and maybe with a change of scenery Bradley might improve with the bat.
JBJ would fit hitting 8-hole and never facing lefties. His career against RHP is decent, he’s be cheaper, shorter contract and will defend CF well. Breathe of fresh air over the tricky Fenway dimensions.
It also allows the possibility that he loses the starting role and fills as a 4th OF if he struggles with the bat. Enter Austin Martin.
But signing JBJ still means a move would be made to open a spot for him.
I really like the upside of jbj and Pederson. I like Springer at 100 to 130 long as I can stretch it out 6 or 7 years. Like others said 4/25 5/20 is fair. If he wants more money I want more years that I can still use him as corner fielder or dh if he ages well. If he doesn’t age well then I am paying him inflation money.
One thing Mets fans have failed to notice is that Alderson and Cohen would prefer to not sign ANY of the frontline free agents.
Alderson has failed to realize that 2021 and 2022 are the Mets window, and that 2023 and probably 2024 isn’t, given that after 2022 all of Nimmo, Conforto, Syndergaard, Stroman, Matz, Lugo, Diaz, and May will either be FAs or retained at close to FA prices; deGrom will be able to opt-out, and all of Alonso, McNeil, Dom, and JDD will be in arb 2 (and in 2023 Cano will still be on the payroll).
In short, you can’t afford to even keep that team together.
That Alderson and Cohen have decided to waste the rest of deGrom’s prime and a nucleus worth 42 WAR in 2019 and 2020 (pro rated) despite having $80m to spend this offseason is shocking malfeasance.
You’re missing a great team, Steve.
Show some patience, man. None of the top free agents have signed a deal yet this year, so the Mets are still contenders for their services. Catching was a big need for the Mets so when JTR refused to accept their offer, they wisely moved onto McCann and got him to sign before another team snapped him up. The mid market free agents (like McCann) are the only ones signing so far, along with some low level FAs like Renfroe. The Mets were smart to sign McCann as JTR would have had them over a barrel once McCann signed elsewhere. There’s no question that the Mets are going to sign one of Springer, Bauer or DJL. Just because they punted on JTR doesn’t mean that’s their strategy for all top FAs.
I can see 150 million ( lets face it MLB tosses money around ) but for a player who can raise a club into the playoffs or World Series, Springer without a great cast like he had in Houston is not that guy.
He will get a big contract but his best years may not be ahead.
Steve sign Springer
Wonder if the Mets are willing to go 150, but only for 7 years or something longer in length
I think he easily cracks 100, and I do think he gets above 125 too. But 150 I doubt it happens
Don’t doubt that Springer asking for 5 years, mores than his yearly avg salary is what’s holding up negotiations with an interested team from going forward….so your comment about 7 years isn’t ever going to happen to a 31 year old outfielder…..as a Yankee fan, the ridiculous Cano is a good example or better is the Stanton contract for what was 13 years at $325 Million with a little over 6 years left is the poster boy for what not to do as a team…..while Stanton was a 160+ game player as little as 3 years ago, look how many games he’s played total since….and now he’s nothing more than a DH, which very well may happen to Springer with all that work on those legs……my point is that these long term contracts normally just don’t work with the last 2 years clogging up team payroll while not delivering the value the dollars represent.
Not a NY Mets fan here at all. Here is the question. Why would Springer go to the Jays especially with that front office of frugality and sign there? Next year when they need help it won’t come. Don’t tell me Toronto fan “ yes they will” because when it has happened in the past they don’t. I would go to the Mets for less and know Cohen is going to,spend.
That front office isn’t frugal to him if they are the ones offering him the most money.
5/125 with a player opt out at year 2 and 3 will do it.
Rogers is richer than Cohen, TO isn’t a dump like Queens and the Jays young core eats the Mets for lunch. The “being closer to family” argument for Springer with the Mets is a garbage argument.
Offers being equal, how could George not want to be the face of baseball in a real first world country like Canada?
Cmon George, it’s an easy call.
Seems like someone is trying very hard to overcompensate for an inferiority complex. Both teams have positive and negative traits, it’ll come down to pays more
You’re an idiot. No one wants to play in Toronto. The taxes make New York’s taxes look like Florida’s. Toronto doesn’t even know where they will be playing this year, Citi Field is gorgeous and the close to home argument could very well be a real thing. Not to mention, he’d be a huge star in the biggest city in the world, unlike a star in a country that only cares about hockey
Have you been to Toronto? It is a much-nicer place than NYC.
What a silly comment. Someone making millions of dollars a year can live nicely in either city. They’ll never have to see the bad parts of either.
Yeah Chorono is Hawkey country. I’d rather be in the states than Canada. I’m sure he would too.
Also Rogers is not richer than Cohen. Cohen is the wealthiest owner in baseball, look it up, he’s worth 14 billion
Burns…Rogers is worth more than Cohen. Much more. Even factoring Can-US dollar exchange.
Cohen is the richest owner in baseball. He’s worth $14.6 billion compared to $8.75 billion for the Rogers family. BTW, both amounts are disgusting for individuals to possess.
https://www.radio.com/sports/mlb/gallery/the-richest-mlb-owners-ranked-by-net-worth#over–3-5-billion–the-dolans-top-the-list-ckafj93zn006f3h6252iuggrz
Sorry NMK2, Rogers Communication net worth as of February 21, 2020 is $25.13B
NMK Rogers revenues alone exceed Cohen’s worth.
Link?
Link? Do a simple search.
In 2018 and 2019 Rogers Communications earned an annual revenue of 15.1 billion dollars. They’ve been above 12 billion per year since 2010. Value of the company is much more than that. Cohen can fetch Rogers a drink.
That’s funny. I found a second source identifying Cohen as the wealthiest MLB team owner. It’s almost like the Blue Jays’ aren’t the richest team.
bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-15/cohen-battl…
I think we can all agree here that NMK2 has ran away from the discussion due to his inferior baseball knowledge. Looks like the northern “hockey boys” just schooled his candy a$$.
There is a difference between revenue and profit, you know that right?
Both cities are dumps…
Haha. ^^^^^^^this^^^^***
Is your definition of a good city a place like Topeka, KS?
How about three years at $30m then two years at $20m? He would become free agent at 36ish where he could possibly get another contract even if only as a DH.
So you’re saying basically saying 5/$130m with it being more front loaded. I think that’s reasonable. Maybe even have an opt out after year 3.
I think that’s a little pricey for the risk of a five-year deal. Not only are we living in the era of Covid-19 (which has seen teams sell talent for pennies on the dollar), but front offices seem less inclined to start bidding wars. Also, if Springer wants the long-term protection of a five-year deal, it may cost him a few dollars to get it.
150 is way too much for someone close to the end of their prime. Cohen should use his money else where. Go after Bauer, get another pitcher, some relief and I’m fine with getting Bradley to play cf.
It wouldn’t be the end of the world to go into another season with Nimmo in center, as long as they work on that pitching staff. They still need 2 starters and another decent reliever. Pitching is what wins
Except Bauer wants $200m for 5-6 years.
Bauer is high asking for Cole AAV type money mostly off of a 60 game CY year. For his career he’s worth more like $27-30m AAV.
And that’s even high. Guy has a career almost 4 era. 1-1/2 good seasons out of 7.
Where does Heyman come up with this information? Bauer already outed him in his last update about his situation where he stated Bauer’s agent refused to comment about Bauer’s salary demands, but Bauer said Heyman never even contacted her. How can we believe anything that Heyman says about potential deals and contract values / player demands?
Heyman surely got his info from teams negotiating with him not Bauer himself. Bauer was probably embarrassed to have price leaked because it’s an absurd ask. He seemed really defensive but never denied the the number.
Neither of the frontrunners for Springer is close to contending for a championship, with or without his services. Why would either even consider a long-term contract that will likely end badly?
Cey Hey, are you a fan of the Dodgers, Braves or Padres? You must be a bandwagoner to have blind disdain or fear for two teams that will be threatening very soon. The Blue Jays have a solid core of position players and need a few pitchers. The Mets have a mix of position players and pitching, with a few holes in each. It won’t take much for either/both Toronto and New York (NL) to be major challengers in 2021.
As a Jays fan, I think I’d prefer to see DJ Lemahieu and Realmuto if the Jays are being real about signing more than one talented player. Move Biggio to third, keep Guerrero at 1b, with a few starts at 3b if he’s better, Bichette at SS, DJL at 2nd and then DH Telez. Keep gurriel and Teoscar in the corner OF and then use Jansen/Kirk and Grichuk to find a true CFer. Lots of high contact/OBP players in there without so much of the usual boom or bust AL East makeup (HR or bust).
Not a fan of Bauer the person/off field. His brand of “cheating” might benefit the rest of the Jays staff, but he just always runs me the wrong way. Not a fan of how much of Springer’s production might correlate to cheating. I’d rather an aging DJL at 2b and Realmuto long term at C than a 31 yr old CFer.
As for pitching, bring back Walker on a 2-3 year deal. Ryu, Pearsom, Walker and then Stripling/Roark/Ray/Kay/Hatch/Thornton/Zeuch etc. Battling for last two spots. Hand would be nice in the BP but otherwise wait and see. If the Jays are in the thick of things, then go out and trade for SP/BP help.
Walker has barely pitched the last 3-4 years and you want to hand him a 2-3 year deal yet you don’t “like” Bauer?
This is the Jays fan mentality that needs to be broken. This is not the Maple Leafs; acquiring washed up or 3rd liner players and expect every person to buy in. You don’t like cheating yet you want to cheat your team out of contention. Thanks but no thanks. This is why the Yankees kick our butts.
Steely, you are way off. Jays need elite players in order to win. Your analysis produces good not great. As guests says, it is time to throw out that mentality and adopt a elite win now mentality.
There are only 7 teams currently trying to get better so, someone has to sign him
Must be nice
If Bauer and Springer get their asking price both contracts are going to be absolute anchors. Honestly the blue print is try to extend your young superstars for 1-2 years past arbitration (minimal risk) and bid goodbye.
150M for Springer is a pass. 5/125 may be more realistic, but that’s at the top of the price point. 5/110 with incentives totaling 15-25M for top 10 MVP voting, etc. Incentives that can be achieved and should be for someone who is making some serious coin.
$150M is too steep for Springer. Mets would probably be better served to sign LeMahieu for his $125M asking price and use the rest to sign Tanaka to a 1 year deal.
When will this all end NBA players being paid more then $500,000 a game ( Better players Harden, James and many others ) making 44 to 45 million in a shortened NBA season. Trout making his 36 million a year it’s the fans that can’t take a family of 4 to any ball game for less the $300.00. I’ll be watching on tv from now on
Collectively, we’re the problem. All that money these players are making is money that we fans put into it.
Fans put in some but TV deals put in more along with sponsorship.
Nobody is forcing these players to sign these deals. And if someone gave me that much to play a game I would sign that deal too. How you protest if you think the players make too much is to boycott the product. But me personally I could care less.
For a 31 years old, If I was the Jays, I’ll give him $150M over 6 years, with a club option for a 7th year at $20M and 2.5M buyout. It’ll play him through age 37 and he can either move to RF/or DH depending on his health and Athleticism conditions.
Year 1 $30M
Year 2 $30M
Year 3 $25M
Year 4 $25M
Year 5 $20M
Year 6 $20M
Year 7 $20M club option or 2.5M buy out.
That’ll give him a total of guaranteed money of $152.5M over 6 years and $170M over 7 years if his option is picked up. If he performs well, he’s a FA again and can perhaps be someone’s DH on a 2 year deal with an option and make more dough!
No thanks. A guy you want for 4 years and your idea is 7. No need to carry $20-mil the last 3 seasons while Springer labors his way to retirement.
Not worth it for his age and the amount of years and dollars he wants. You’re paying prime years rates for decline years. Plus he’s a despicable filthy cheating punk. No thanks. If my team were in the mix I wouldn’t want them to sign him.
First Jon Heyman now this. It really must be slow out there for this “speculation” to be so rampant. It doesn’t help either side to throw out this stuff on Twitter. Steve Cohen is nobody’s fool and both Trevor and George deserve more respect.
The asking price is too high…the Mets will pay it and if they make the playoffs they will get knocked out early. End of story.
And this is why, Mr. Cashman, you don’t wait around signing DJ. If Springer sets the market at $150mil then DJ is definitely north of $100mil too.
I can understand going for as much as you can get but $100 million is pretty good considering.
1) Injury prone
2) 31
3) Financial issues with the league for a 2nd year. Do we get fans sometime during the summer? All the gate revenue is gone from spring training and 2020. Expect to lose all of spring training and a good chunk of 2021 gate revenue. The teams make decent money on spring training. It is probably the ONLY professional exhibition games the public really enjoys going to out of all the sports.
I wonder just what percentage of team revenue actually is generated from fans in the stands?
40% looked it up a few days ago. This may not include refreshments
Padres!
Just kidding
“1 Billion Dollars”… all I came here to see and you’ve all disappointed me.
Front load it with guaranteed money, but incentive the Hell out of any contract. I don’t care if the Mets offer him (or any other player) 50 million dollars a year as long as it’s tied to appearance, performance and team related accomplishments.
I wish teams would start writing contracts with less guaranteed money and offer TWICE as much as the asking price in incentives. It creates more salary room, less team risk and motivates players to actually stay healthy, on the field, in the game and focus on team outcomes instead of just swinging for solo homeruns in blow out games or looking toward the bench after 5 innings.
Springer wants 150 million for 7 years? Here’s 75 million guaranteed and ANOTHER 150 million based on games played, team wins, post season appearances, division championships, league championships and World Series wins and appearances.
I hope the Astros Curse is any player or manager from that 2017 WS team never wins another World Championship. That way whenever they look at their rings or someone brings up an argument on why someone from that team is/isn’t a great player, it can just be a fact that the only championship they were capable of winning was when they cheated.
I could be wrong, but I’m guessing the hold up on Springer isn’t the AAV so much, but more about the years he wants. He may want 6 or even 7 years+ and I can’t see anyone going over 5 for him. But maybe that will end up being the differentiator.