The Pirates and Nationals lined up on a deal yesterday that sent first baseman Josh Bell to Washington for a pair of right-handed pitching prospects, Wil Crowe and Eddy Yean. Some reporting in the aftermath of the deal:
- The Pirates have made no secret about their desire to move players off the big league roster for future value this offseason. Trading Bell certainly doesn’t figure to be Pittsburgh’s final move of this ilk, as general manager Ben Cherington acknowledged. “Likely won’t be the last one. There will probably be more,” Cherington told reporters (including Kevin Gorman of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review). “I’m not saying that to predict anything, that’s the realization, that’s where we are.” Joe Musgrove and Adam Frazier are the Pirates’ most prominent potential trade candidates, but any of Richard Rodríguez, Steven Brault, Chad Kuhl, Chris Stratton and Jacob Stallings could plausibly hold appeal to other teams.
- Crowe will compete for a spot in the Pittsburgh rotation in 2021, Cherington confirmed (via Gorman). That’s hardly a surprise; the 26-year-old spent most of 2018-19 in the high minors and made his MLB debut this past season. Crowe was shelled in his three big league starts, but that’s nowhere near enough of a sample to rule him out as a near-term rotation option. Musgrove, Mitch Keller, Jameson Taillon, Kuhl, Brault and J.T. Brubaker all might be ahead of Crowe on the depth chart at the moment. It seems likely one or more of those players will themselves wind up traded before Opening Day.
- Of the two prospects acquired by the Pirates, Crowe is the more familiar name thanks to his big league experience. Yean, though, was the more appealing get for the Pittsburgh front office, reports Jesse Dougherty of the Washington Post. That sentiment was shared by the Nationals, it seems. Washington “(doesn’t) believe they gave up a lot to fill a glaring hole” on the roster, writes Dougherty, largely because they were “lukewarm” about Crowe’s future. On the other hand, ESPN’s Buster Olney points out (via Twitter) that Bell’s profile (slugger at the bottom of the defensive spectrum) is the kind that teams have devalued in recent years. For what it’s worth, the MLBTR readership seemed to favor the Nationals’ end of the trade.
Pirates are a perennial laughingstock
Its Josh Bell, a project 1B who they were never going to re-sign. Theres more outrage over this than the Gerrit Cole trade(at the time of the deal). Which is insane.
The Pirates are the dog that everybody kicks when they’re mad. They are also chronically unlucky lately with certain things. McCutchens unprecedented regression from Hall of Famer to meh, Felipe Vasquez about to get Lux and May from LAD then he goes to prison.
Not actually that unusual for even great players to fall off a cliff around the age of 31.
Yea but he did it at 29.
“Meh” is not a word. Expand your vocabulary, typing out sounds is extremely lazy writing.
You have “lol” and “metz” in your username. Neither is a word.
i think its because of the Cole and Cutch deals…but especislly the Cole deal.which was terrible….. so people thought there would be lessons learned and a new GM would get a good return from their lone remaining all star
Why would it be because of the Cutch deal? We traded one year of control of a regressing talent and got Reynolds out of it. Crick has showed moments of dominance too. If anything, the Cutch trade was the best one the franchise made the last five years.
This trade makes complete sense. IMO, it’s win-win/fair trade on both sides.
Ben Cherington is not Neal Huntington….
Frankly, it’s a great trade for the Pirates who were lucky to get anything of value out of Josh Bell… I’m not sure why the Nationals took a flyer on him when you can get his type of production from Cron for next to nothing and at least Cron isn’t a complete defensive liability.
IMO, when you have Juan Soto and Trea Turner, you don’t go after Josh Bell… You spend on either Springer or Realmuto. If you make a trade, make an impact trade (pry Rizzo from the Cubs), don’t throw away prospects on Josh freaking Bell.
Quit using logic. It messes with the narrative.
if the Pirates think Stratton is a big tradable asset then they have a long way to go to contention.
Seems like MLBTR wrote this article, not the Pirates.
Then if MLBTR thinks he’s an asset for the Bucs, they are a long way off.
Stratton was good for Bucs last year! Former #1 draft pick . You must be dreaming again . Poor guy!
Old, cheap starter turned mid-inning bullpen piece. No one said he’s a big trade asset. He’s a trade piece and that is it. Man, this is the second time you make a mountain out of a mole hill when it comes to pirates content. Last time it was Martin leaving made them garbage. What gives?
Martin is an optionable OF for a team that is rebuilding, and Stratton really doesn’t seem like he’s be worth significantly more then a lottery ticket. am i someone who nitpicks? yes, but it takes 40 players to make a 40 man roster and its the team that pays attention to the quality of all 40 of them who does the best.
@Darkside830.:
“…plausibly hold appeal,” does not equate to “big tradeable asset.”
Apparently, reading is hard for some.
As apparently, courtesy is for others.
Excellent!
what’s he worth, a lottery ticket? and really, cant any player in baseball “plausibly hold appeal?”
That’s the thing. He’s a piece they will look to trade and has some appeal. Any player in baseball can hold appeal but it every player isn’t a trade piece at this moment.
He’s a spare part they will probably try to turn into something, anything. You can find similar players on every team’s roster. The fact he exists in the league does not mean anyone thinks he’s great, let alone good.
I believe the Pirates won this trade. Josh Bell is a bad defender, and I don’t think that his offense can get back to its 2019 level. I’m still surprised the Nationals gave up what they did to get him.
Why the rush to pick a winner? Shouldn’t we let them play some games first? As for Bell, I am no fan but he won’t turn 29 until August.
Bc bored baseball fans
Hindsight is easy and boring.
Crowe is a soft tosser with poor command and I don’t recall seeing one plus pitch. Getting rid of him for anything is nothing short of a miracle. Yean is the prize for the Pirates, and we won’t know for 4 years+. I have the trade as pretty even.
Even if Bell does hit, he’s still a DH/1B, which shouldn’t be hard for PGH to replace down the road.
Says the guy with zero mlb management experience
Why do people think this is some slick reply? It’s not
It just shows you can’t argue with logic so you’re trying to attack his character. Go look up ad hominem arguments, learn something. Congrats, you argue with one of the oldest fallacies in the book
Ahaha…he said you have an old penis.
He’s right….it doesn’t take any MLB experience to know that 1B/DH, bad glove types are easy to find especially at the salary he’s getting. If you actually watch the Pirates which I do, you’d been able to see his performance since the Allstar game of 2019. No hit…no glove and he can’t even throw. Good guy but good riddance. Addition by subtraction.
Once a guy hits 37 HRs in a season no amount of logic, stats or analysis will convince some fans that he’s just not that good of a player.
Maybe. We’ll know in maybe 5 years. Not a Bell fan, myself, but living in DC I’m familiar with Crowe. he ain’t it. Bullpen piece, tops. The young kid sounds great, but it’s a long way from complex ball to the majors. Top prospects who’ve torn up the upper minors have flopped. If the Nats get .260-25-90 out of Bell, they’ll be happy. Unless the kid becomes Pedro in 5 years, of course. Odds?
Look, if Josh Bell can reach his 2019 level, then this is a very good trade for the Nationals. However, given his defensive struggles, and given the fact that he has been a slightly above average hitter for most of his career, I think the Nationals would be better off using these prospects in a trade for a better player.
It was only the first half of 2019. That relatively brief period of his career is the only time he has really produced.
Quite frankly, this trade doesn’t seem very interesting in general. I think the only reason it is being discussed much at all is the fact that there really isn’t anything interesting going on with MLB lately.
@Chief Two Hands – yep, nailed it haha
I think both sides won. What did Pittsburgh have to gain by holding on to Josh Bell? For the remaining years left before Bell becomes a FA, the Pirates aren’t going to contend. Instead, he is a money pit. Here, not only do they shred salary, but they also add two promising arms. Even if only one of them pans out as an average bullpen piece, it still really isn’t a loss for Pittsburgh.
Exactly
imo, the pieces the Nats gave up aren’t that special. Yean’s limited numbers are impressive, but he is probably a 3+ years away from the big leagues, if he even makes it (performance could tail off, injuries, etc.; tons of variables for a 19 year old pitcher). And just looking at his numbers, Crowe seems to have struggled mightily once he got above A ball (even in the PCL, his short stint there was very bad). Maybe he just needs another year or two in the minors, but he’s already 26.
You never know with prospects… I’m sure most fans thought Kyle Hendricks was nothing special when they got him for Dempster while fans were doing back flips for nabbing Addison Russell for Samardjiza…
I’m not.
Every NL Central team but the Cardinals is stripping things down. Can this division winner be called on Christmas? Better yet, who finishes second?
I would say Cubs 1 and Cardinals 2. Our offense won’t be able to get it done unless we add something.
Yeah, but Cubs are sellers too. Really too soon to tell. Cards add a couple of bats, Cubs subtract a couple (and don’t add pitching), things could change a lot.
What have the Cardinals done? They cut Wong, need to re-sign or replace Molina and Wainwright, and have no OF who can hit.
what they’ve done is be a perennially good team who did well even *despite* their entire OF sucking last year.
What I meant is they shouldn’t be excluded from the “stripping things down” category. The owner is crying poor, and while I hope Carlson does hit, he hasn’t yet.
And thanks for the insult, Marty. That always helps conversations go well.
Dylan Carlson cant hit? Get a brain.
I don’t imagine Frazier has much trade value, beyond his cheapness and versatility – is he really more than a superscrub? Doesn’t hit for any power, doesn’t steal at all, doesn’t get on base at a particularly high rate, doesn’t have an amazing glove… what’s there to trade for, really?
Maybe Musgrove is worth something, though a perennial sub-100 ERA+ guy who’s probably 5th in the rotation of a playoff contender isn’t exactly worth a ton – but as depth, at least, he’ll be okay.
That’s the problem the Pirates seem to face consistently – they run out of guys to trade so they can never do a proper rebuild. You need to actually develop high quality players in order to get big trade returns – and they just traded away their best (Bell) for a decent, but not amazing, return. This rebuild will be very long – just like the last five.
He’s a very versatile player who would barely play on a good team, and be in AAA for a contender.
He’s averaging about 12-14 HRs projected on 500 ABs the last 3 years, around .275 each year and better than average fielder. A starter for weaker teams, solid platoon guy for contender.
Musgrove has the Braves written all over him.
I like Musgrove but I think the braves are done adding pitching.
Yeah, I’d agree that Musgrove has ATL “written all over him” – and I’d love to have him – but between the added pieces (Morton, Smyly) and the MLB-ready arms, I can’t imagine PIT surrendering one of their best assets for anything less than a premium prospect that ATL may not be willing to relinquish, even though Musgrove has multiple years of control left. I’d imagine they could get more for him somewhere else. I can’t help but think TOR/LAA (especially with Braves former AGM, Perry Minasian now running the show) seem like favorites.
Ouch on Frazier. Super scrub is harsh. He’s not a game changer by any means but he’ll hit .270 with gold glove caliber defense at 2nd. He’s received pretty solid defensive grades in the outfield as well.
What Frazier are you watching? He’s a career 276 hitter and a Gold Glove finalist the last two years – “that’s called value”. IMO he would even be better playing on a contending team.
…when he only faces RHP
If the A’s don’t sign La Stella you can bet Frazier will be playing 2B in Oakland next year.
Musgrove has basically been an average MLB starter. He was better than that last year. I believe that a lot of his prior issues have been due to poor development on the part of the Pirates at all levels. Cherington has been working hard to fix this issue.
Stupid statement 369 ! He is a good player. You must be one of those really smart NBA fans!
what on earth does that even mean?
@snoopy369, yes, going to need you to not chime in if you think a gold glove elite defender “doesnt have an amazing glove” – your comment just proved to everyone you dont know how to evaluate baseball players – go put in your 10,000 hours and come back.
Adam Frazier is a regular 2-3 WAR player, which qualifies as “decent regular” not “superscrub”, which is what Charlie Culberson is, and Frazier is 10x the player Culberson is.
Your analysis on Musgrove value differs from what every other baseball site is projecting. FIP under 4.00 last 3 years, WHIP under 1.25. They will get a decent return, and with Moran showing improvement at 1B, everyone can quit saying how bad the Cole trade was, especially since Cole only had one dominant year with Pirates.
The trade was just kind of a need for a need.
The pirates saved some payroll and got a couple of arms and the nationals got a power right handed bat.
The nationals will get replacement arms in the draft and have plenty of others.
They could have just went out and signed Renato Nunez though. Not sure why they didn’t do that.
Perhaps the pirates can now sign Nunez and trade him next offseason, he will still have 3 years of team control at that point.
He really needs to be a full time DH though. Nunez.
Isn’t he a left-handed bat? I hear he might platoon with Zimmerman, if they re-sign him.
Only problem with your assessment is that Bell is a much better Left handed hitter than right handed. He is a switch hitter
Bell really needs to be a full time DH too. Not to good anywhere on the field playing defense
Seems like a good trade for both teams. Bell is decent with power upside. He wasn’t going to bring a mega haul nor would he bring back scraps. Yean seems like a real good prospect and Crowe may be in the 21 rotation. If I’m a fan of either team, I feel ok. If I’m picking a winner of the trade I go with the Bucs.
The bell trade was selling very low on bell. I don’t disagree with the rebuild strategy… but lord, hand the nationals the keys to a solid young player for next to nothing
They didn’t have much time wait for a turnaround, if it comes at all. Only 2yrs of control remaining. If he has a mediocre 2021 there would no market at all.
Bell is an extremely poor fielder, cannot make throws to 2B and his only position is DH. Great guy, hope he finds consistency with Nats, but he’s a Boras client and would be long gone by the time Pirates might be competitive in 2024 or so.
Not saying they didn’t try, but I might have rather tried to grab Carlos Santana for 1B over giving up assets for Bell if I am Rizzo/Nats.
Crowe isn’t a real asset, the Nats knew that. The kid is a long way away.
Of course he is. Even if he never produces in MLB, he has value based on tools/pitches and projection, as this trade has proven.
He’s 26 in 2021, please stop calling him a “kid” who’s a long way away, he’s a failed prospect who might be lucky to see regular MLB playing time.
I believe @pjmcnu was referring to Yean as the kid. He acknowledged that at the moment Crowe is not an asset and Yean (the kid) is a long way away from the bigs, which he is.
Bell is an extremely poor fielder, cannot make throws and his only position is DH. Great guy, hope he finds consistency with Nats, but he’s a Boras client and would be long gone by the time Pirates might be competitive in 2024 or so.
I know average is not everything, but with Santana, its nothing, and that counts a lot. Bell has more upside. Would say there are a few 1B/Dh types that are likely to produce similar numbers for less as FAs. Don’t understand Washington’s reasoning for this trade.
it’s rough to be a Pirates fan…
Yes, I don’t know why anyone would go to their games when they keep unloading anyone of value.
God, Pittsburgh is stripping it down again. After giving their fans the heady heights of, what, 2 (3?) Wild Card games (losing all) it’s time for 10 more years of 95-100 losses. 2030 is your year, Bucs’ Nation!
Actually they won one and took the Cards,to game 5 in the divisional round
Taking shots at the Pirates, that is such an original and unique comment. It’s not like they are cutting salary from a good team. It all fell apart after 2015 due to lack of any young impact players in the system because of total failure of prior regime to draft/develop. The decline of McCutchen and failure of Alvarez, Polanco and Bell to reach expectations, Taillon with 2 TJs and cancer didn’t help. It’s easier than shooting fish in a barrel to make fun of the Pirates and they do have the worst and cheapest owner in MLB, but they’ve had a lot more bad luck than good.
Great deal for both sides. Pitt with Josh Bell is still terrible. At least they have something to build on. Nats are a much better team now. Win-Win.
Bell will probably get $7 million in arbitration. That was all the incentive Owner Bob Nutting needed to trade Bell. Pirates will have the lowest payroll in baseball but will lead the league in fireworks nights and bobble heads.
Really? Because Nutting scrapped SkyBlast nights about 5 years ago because it cost too much.
It is sad that a AA team occupies the nicest ballpark in MLB.
I feel bad for Ke’Bryan Hayes. That kid is gonna be a superstar. And he’s gonna be traded in 4 years.
Cherington won’t do that, he’s building around him right now, to have them contending in 3-4 years. Hayes is legit though, best player they’ve had in a while.
No he’s not.
In the last 20 years (it gets much worse if you go further back), the Pirates have three playoff appearances and four winning seasons. This looks like it could be another 2001-2012 type of run. On the bright side, they have a beautiful ballpark (top five in the league).
PNC Park shows the value of a great architect.
Heinz Field was built at the exact same time in almost the exact same spot and no one ever says it’s nice, because it’s not. It’s a dump.
The PNC team figured out to showcase the city’s skyline in their design.
The Heinz team opened up a football stadium (not typical…or smart, as the swirling wind makes it miserable inside) to show a dirt hill on the side of a mountain with an old wooden Bayer sign. Had they turned the angle a few degrees, they too, could have shown off the skyline and it would have been a bit more impressive than the dirt hill.
PNC is on my bucket list to see a game at. Hoping to fulfill my entire bucket list within the next 10 years. Gotta start with the west coast teams. LA,San Fran and Oakland (hoping by that time they get a new stadium. Heard it was a cesspool in lack of a better word.
Would love for the jays to inquire about Taillon’s availability. Would be a great piece to put in with our young core.
I was on record that the Pirates should trade Bell last offseason. His bad second half in 2019 would have been easier to gloss over and I knew a repeat of it would tank his value.
But, would they have gotten that much more for him last offseason? Maybe not. Such a devalued position.
They absolutely could’ve gotten more last offseason. He came with an extra year of control and would’ve been coming off an actually good season. But for whatever reason BC was timid last offseason. Trading Marte was a good start but he needed to go further. All in on the rebuild and tell your fans as much. Trim the fat, play the kids, etc. True fans could’ve at least respected that.
Pirates are tanking… getting a number 1 pick in 2021, going for a top pick in 2022… that’s how the game is played. They got a very young prospect and a guy who will eat some innings for a 1B. Great pickup. 1B’s are a dime a dozen. They save some money.
Nationals improve 1B at a very low cost. Good job.
Both teams win.
Getting the number one pick is so unbelievably overrated in baseball. Firstly, the draft is very much a crap shoot compared to other teams. Secondly, the level of terrible you need to be to achieve this pretty much guarantees your still gonna suck for years no matter whom you do draft.
Agree with @cosmo2, Hall of Famers get picked last in the MLB draft, but sports fans refuse to acknowledge that the MLB draft is massively, MASSIVELY different to NFL or NBA drafts, and therefore act like a top 10 pick means more than it really does. Supposed “experts” who cash a paycheck from MLB teams deemed there were 24 players better than Mike Trout in the draft – proof its all a bunch of phony valor in picking higher up, but reality is – who cares about where you pick, when there are potential superstars in every single round?
MLB draft is a crapshoot but few HOF get drafted after the 1st round.
Best players in baseball are normally former 1st rounders or IL signings.
That’s a big paragraph that basically says nothing.
Atleast the worse teams in the AL try to compete. Reds Rockies pirates fold their seasons in December
The worst teams in the AL try t,compete? Orioles, Tigers,……
Nice addition to the lineup. Loads of power! Now sign R. Zimmerman to a one year deal to platoon at the position. Nats would be then set at 1st!
Now the Pirates can draft Trevor Lawrence and turn this whole franchise around…
This will be a good trade for the Nationals if they can sandwich Bell between 2 good hitters. When Bell had his good year it was between Marte and Polanco primarily. These 2 hitters were having a good year when Bell thrived. Otherwise, despite Cherington’s claim, this trade had to made because Bell cannot field or throw. Moran would be the better choice at first. He hit better than Bell last year and even though not a great fielding 3rd basemen, he should be better at first. If NL accepts DH this will benefit Nationals, if not the Pirates made the right move.
Pirates are gunning for Kumar Rocker
They are, but Jack Leiter is the Vandy SP I’d be gunning for. This year’s top overall pick is going to be tough. Would be crazy to see Vandy SPs go 1-2 – though there’s a lot of time for that to change.
Kind of reminds me of cole or bauer from ucla
James Kaprielian and Sheldon Neuse for Adam Frazier, who says no?
The pirates would jump at that offer, but Oakland wouldn’t have offered.
Completely tear it gown to bare bones and play all kids!
Tucker SS
Newman 2B
Hayes 3B
Moran/Evans 1B
Reynolds LF
Alford CF
Polonco RF because they are stuck with him but platoon with Olivia
Stallings C
I don’t think it’s a bad deal. I’m sure it was the best offer. Now trade Musgrove, Frazier, Brault, C.Moran, Stratton. And Sign Tallion.
Stop treating every player like a utility player. You cant keeping moving young players around like that. They need routine and consistency. To Play in and out of slumps. Eric Gonzalez is not apart of our future; C.Tucker and K.Newman can be. We have to see what we have. When we played Newman everyday at SS, he played well. Play everyday:
2B:Newman
RF:Reynolds
3B:K.Hayes
1B:Moran/W.Craig/M.Martin
LF:Polonco
CF:A.Alford/J.Oliva
C:J.Stallings
SS:C.Tucker
BN:E.Gonzalez, P.Evans
SP:J.Tallion/M.Keller/C.Kuhl/W.Crowe/C.Bolton, JT Brubaker
RP:R.Rodriguez,Cenderlind, E.Santana, K.Crick, Turley, S.Howard, Fulmer, C.Ponce, G.Hartlieb, L.Oviedo, N.Mears, B.Ogle.
My confusion is..whenvtrade was made crowe was #3 nats prospects and yeah was #6…all of a sudden yeah enters pirates at. #7 and crowe #16…that doesn’t make sense
The author (Franco) says Buster Olney (on Twitter) points out that teams now devalue sluggers “at the bottom of the defensive spectrum” like Bell. But Olney’s comment is only about corner position sluggers. He says nothing about defense.
Which suggests that even if Bell was a decent 1B he wouldn’t be worth much (in a trade or to the Nats). That seems right to me. Carlos Santana, another switch hitting 1B, signed with KC for roughly what Bell will earn over the next two years, and Santana has generally been an average fielder. Nats struck out on Santana so gave up not much for Bell equivalent.
It’s first base—not that hard!