The Nationals have a new first baseman. In an out-of-the-blue Christmas Eve swap, Washington has acquired Josh Bell from the Pirates in exchange for right-handed pitchers Wil Crowe and Eddy Yean, according to announcements from both clubs.
Bell, 28, fills the Nationals’ void at first base and gives the club a switch-hitting power bat to pair with Juan Soto in the heart of the order. Like most of the Pirates’ lineup, Bell struggled in 2020, hitting just .226/.305/.364 with a career-high 26.5 percent strikeout rate. However, outside of last year’s shortened season, Bell has been a productive big league hitter throughout his career.
The Pirates selected Bell with the 61st overall pick in 2011 and paid him a then-record $5MM signing bonus, shattering the recommended slot value to convince Bell to forgo his college commitment. The 6’4″ slugger rated as one of the game’s top prospects throughout his minor league tenure and was a productive hitter each season from 2016-18, posting a combined .260/.348/.436 batting line — good for a 110 wRC+ (put another way: overall production that was 10 percent better than a league-average hitter).
In 2019, Bell erupted with a breakout, 37-homer campaign that led to his first All-Star nod. Tapping into the raw power for which he’d long been touted, Bell raked at a .277/.367/.569 clip, adding in 37 doubles and three triples while plating 116 runs in just 143 games played. It’s worth noting that he tailed off in the second half, and those struggles carried over into the aforementioned down year in 2020. The Nats are buying in the belief that Bell can be much closer to that 2019 All-Star who looked to be emerging as one of the league’s premier power bats.
Bell is eligible for arbitration for the second time this winter and has yet to settle on a salary for the 2021 campaign. He’s owed a raise on last year’s $4.8MM salary and is now under Nationals control through the 2022 season
The Bell acquisition gives the Nats an everyday option at first base, which could complicate any potential reunion with Ryan Zimmerman, although the two could certainly form a quality pairing at the position. Although Bell is a switch-hitter, he’s vastly better from the left side of the dish, so if the Nats want to bring Zimmerman back for a 16th season, “Mr. National” could move into a bench role and spell Bell against tougher lefties. Of course, if the National League brings back the designated hitter for the 2021 season, Bell could fill that role full-time for the Nats. That could be a best-case scenario for Washington, as Bell is regarded as a well below-average defender at his position.
In return for two years of Bell, the Pirates will net an immediate rotation piece in the 26-year-old Crowe — a former second-round pick himself (2017). The 6’2″, 228-pound Crowe made his big league debut in 2020, starting three games for the Nats but being tagged for 11 runs in 8 1/3 innings. That’s a minuscule sample on which to judge Crowe, however. The right-hander has been considered one of the Nats’ best prospects since the day he was drafted. While he’s had knee and elbow injuries in the past — including Tommy John surgery while pitching at the University of South Carolina — he set career-highs in starts (26) and innings (149 1/3) during his last full season in 2019.
Baseball America recently ranked Crowe 10th among Nationals farmhands, and was the team’s No. 3 prospect at MLB.com on their midseason rankings and No. 4 at FanGraphs. Eric Longenhagen and Kiley McDaniel wrote in that FanGraphs report that Crowe has three above-average pitches and a promising changeup but “imprecise control” of his arsenal and some durability concerns because of that injury track record. Crowe was hammered for a 6.17 ERA in his lone Triple-A experience, although that came while pitching in an outrageously hitter-friendly setting in 2019 — both due to the juiced ball in Triple-A and the conditions of Fresno’s park in the Pacific Coast League.
It remains to be seen whether the Pirates will plug Crowe directly into the rotation or give him some additional time in Triple-A in 2021, but it’d be a surprise if he weren’t called to the big leagues at some point next season. Pittsburgh currently projects to have Joe Musgrove, Mitch Keller, Steven Brault, Chad Kuhl and a returning Jameson Taillon in its rotation, though Musgrove, Brault and Kuhl have all been discussed in trade talks as well. Further transactions between now and Opening Day could very well to alter that composition to some extent.
The 19-year-old Yean is a much longer-term play for the Pirates, although it’s arguable that he’s the more appealing piece of the deal. Baseball America’s updated ranking of the Nationals’ farm has Yean two spots higher than Crowe, touting an “explosive” fastball that reaches 97 mph and could climb higher as he continues to grow. Yean throws both a four-seamer and two-seamer in addition to a slider and a changeup. Signed out of the Dominican Republic in 2018, Yean has the type of velocity, breaking ball and projectable frame typical of first- and second-round high school draftees, Longenhagen wrote for his Nats rankings at FanGraphs.
The Bell trade could be the first of several for the rebuilding Pirates this winter. Musgrove remains one of the more appealing arms who could change hands this offseason, and any of Brault, Kuhl, reliever Richard Rodriguez, catcher Jacob Stallings and second baseman Adam Frazier stand out as viable trade pieces. No one in the NL Central is making an aggressive push to seize the division crown, but the Pirates are the only one of the quintet who are in the midst of a full-scale rebuild. Further change is surely on the horizon under second-year general manager Ben Cherington.
The Nats, meanwhile, still have work to do. Adding a corner outfielder, at least one back-of-the-rotation starter — particularly now that they’ve subtracted Crowe from the mix — and perhaps an upgrade at catcher could all be on the horizon for GM Mike Rizzo and his staff as the Nats look to get back to their winning ways in 2021.
Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette first reported that the two teams were closing in on a trade. ESPN’s Jeff Passan reported that an agreement of Bell for two young pitchers had been reached. MLB Network’s Jon Heyman added the names of the two pitchers going to Pittsburgh.
Shocker.
Typical Pirates. Nationals lineup just got better.
Did you watch Bell since the 2019 all star break? Guy has not done a thing.
Who cares about small samples like that? Thankfully you don’t work in pro baseball because having attitudes based on tiny and highly volatile samples like the 2020 season would be devastating to an organization.
People actually think the Marlins are better than the Mets after 2020. It’s getting bad. This was a good move by the Nats. I bet he’ll hit like 2019. I know he struggles defensively but they needed offense.
Let’s play some games first. Could easily be another 60 game season. Mets making the right moves, but thegame is played on the field.
That’s true but the marlins do not even have close to the roster of a 2nd place team. They would have finished in 5th.
I agree with you about not judging players on small sample sizes, but outside of 2-3 months to start 2019, this guy has never been very good at all.
Small samples? He was barely above league average for 3 years, fantastic for 2 months, and then sucked for the last 3 months of 2019 AND all of 2020
You’re the moron telling me to buy into the fantastic two months… then complaining about people buying into small samples!
There’s no way he was worth the Nats 2nd and 4th best farmhand
@MetsFan22 wouldn’t we have thought the same last year?
It is NOT a small sample. PIT seems to have done well to get 6 years of 2 good SP prospects for 2 years of a potentially declining or neutral asset.
Maybe he was speaking about Bells performance post July 9th 2019 through the end of Sept…you know that about 80 game performance….right into and through 2020.
If he had a terrific 2020, sure his agent would have been touting why he deserved a raise but of course when performance is not up to par, excuses rain on the shortened 2020 season.
Marty: As TJECK109 stated “Since the ’19 A.S. game” J. Bell has done pretty much nothing. Basically the 2nd half of ’19 and ALL of the shortened 2020 season is pretty close to 3/4 of a full season. This probably won’t turn into a franchise altering deal but it does bring a young projectible pitcher to the organization.
It was 60 games. Doesn’t count. They would have been easily in last year.
That isnt a small sampöe at all.
@MetsFan22 my whole point is, we may get another shortened season. The teams play the games on the schedule.
The one pitcher the Pirates received is 26 year old. He might be good but 26 is pretty old to be still considered a prospect.
It is not just the 60 games in 2020. He had a good start in 2016 when he first came up in 2016.:was inconsistent at the plate in 17-18. Was white hot the 1st half of 2019. Went off the cliff after the all star game.. he remained in the ravine in the 60 game 2020 season. As much as I hoped his defense would improve with work, he still looks much more like Pedro Alvarez than even a hint of Freddie Freeman. His fielding crushes his value.
@MetsFan22
Well you are also the guy that thinks the Mets offense was better than the Braves offense…even though just about every stat ranked the Braves 2nd barely behind the Dodgers.
@MetsFan22
So since the Marlins finishing ahead of the Mers doesn’t count, does that mean the Dodgers winning the WS doesn’t count?
MetsFan22: We get the same old song & dance from you. Between the Mets & Marlins which team had the better record in the 60 game (abbreviated season)? Which team faced the MOST adversity? Which team has the better farm system?If you have ANY objective bone in your body you’d admit it’s the Marlins. This is coming from an objective Braves fan.
@prospectnvstr
i am an objective mets fan and even did a check against 2019 stats which was a full season stats and mets were around league average on everything except for ops+ and that is due to them getting HBP more than any team by almost a 20% margin (2020 was almost double that percentage) Philly beat them in both or was right there next to them in pretty much every stat yet philly was 5 or 6 games behind them in a full season. The opposite happened in 2020 so now its a travesty for the marlins to be better.
The big problem which it is every year for the last FEW years is the mets dont get their base runners home mainly because they have no speed and no clutch hitters. Their OPS is high and everyone around them is scoring over 5 runs a game but the mets are just about league average for scoring. That matched with consistent underperforming / injured pitching even with degrom at the top will not get you far.
Metsfan22 does not actually represent real life mets, he plays on video game consoles where he controls what happens and assumes what happens there is real life.
Couldn’t have said it myself. Mets should be good this season, but the comments made by MetsFan22 make him seem like a troll.
“Even in 60 games, the Marlins will finish 15 games out of fourth place; 25 games out of first.”
—MetsFan22 (in opposition to a certain fan that said anything can happen in a 60-game season, so the Marlins had a shot in 2020)
Other things that @MetsFan22 also is conveniently ignoring is that this was a 60-game season in which 40 of the games were head-to-head against division rivals. Also, the Mets were trending downward when the season ended.
And my prediction prior to Covid was that, while the Marlins were the pick for last place, I was not convinced that it was as sure as in previous years because they had improved, and both the Mets and Phillies were both good for implosions.
I know you have a lot of ammunition on MetsFan22. The guy is a troll.
I started to think that as well.
I figured either he’s about as delusional a fan as their is or that he is one of the biggest trolls using a Mets persona. He’s so over the top at times that I think it’s the latter. I started feeling that there is no way that anyone is that delusional.
What has Bell done at the major league level outside of the first 4 months of the 2019 season? He sucked the first 2 years of his career. He was good for 4 months. Then he sucked again for the next season and a third. It’s easy to hope those first 4 months of 2019 are the real Josh Bell. His career major league stats don’t support that. He has all the symptoms of a player that cares and works less the more he gets paid. In August of 2019 Josh bell decided he had made enough money that he never has to work or care about anything ever again. Nothing has changed since then. Even after being terrible for the last third of the 2019 season he clearly didn’t make sure he would be better in 2020. This guy is a Boras client who cares about making as much money as possible while trying and working as least as possible. I think Bell is very talented but he won’t care unless a huge paycheck is staring him immediately in the face. He will be terrible again in 2021. He will be much better in 2022 because he will be on the verge of free agency. He will be terrible again in 2023 and every season beyond that if some team is dumb enough to give him a ton of cash. Sometimes, for some players, having millions of dollars in the bank is a very strong deterrent to working hard or mentally stressing about their own production or almost anything for that matter regardless of how talented they are. Josh Bell has all the symptoms of being that kind of player. His talent is also questionable on it’s face. His only good season came during the season when MLB purchased Rawlings and change the ball in order to make offensive production much easier. Josh Bell has never shown any ability to produce at a high level against MLB pitchers in any circumstance when that wasn’t the case. In fact, the final third of 2019 showed that he is often incapable of performing even when that is the case and the ball is changed to give him more of an advantage.
Well this is just not true. Mets and dodgers had betters numbers than Braves… the other day mlb network was saying how the Mets and dodgers both had around the same Wrc+ both higher than the Braves
The Mets are better than marlins. If you can’t realize that then maybe baseball isn’t for everyone…..
You’re not a Mets fan. Definitely not a real fan. This team is top 5 in roster talent.
What ammunition does he have???? I’d like to know.. he made up a lie about me that I said the Mets have the best bullpen and now I don’t know what else he has made up about me.
That is ludicrous. Bell has not achieved the output that was hoped for on a consistent basis, but your repetitive comments that he doesn’t work hard or is only interested in a big paycheck are outrageous. Bell had the reputation of being a leader and well liked by teammates, has been very involved in the community in volunteer activities, and well like personally by fans. Not once have a read the slightest implication that he wasn’t working hard. As a guy with seemingly mammoth talent who has not yet achieved what was hoped for puts him in good company with about 10,000 other former and current major leaguers, your slanderous and idiotic comments notwithstanding. Yeah, baseball is hard.
The Mutts! With their big superstar signing of McCann! Really owning the offseason!
As for a 26 year old pitching “prospect” I can tell you there aren’t many that I’ve ever even heard of. Just like any level age matters. I’m unfamiliar with this particular pitcher to be honest but what’s the reason he’ in the minors competing against guys years younger than him? Surgery? Not good. Control? Not good. Velocity? That’s unlikely to increase. I’m not saying Bell is perfect but sounds like he’s at least had some period of success and has some control. The Nationals acquired him on what seems to be a buy low deal(unless someone can give me info idk on one of these guys)when the Pirates have plenty of room on the roster for guys to rebuild value and sell higher on. Bell might just be the kind of guy they should be looking to pick up(more likely non-tender type)and flip
@whatakrock Do you even bother to read the articles or do you just comment on the headline? The article points out that Bell was a productive hitter before breaking out in 2019 at age 26, saying “outside of last year’s shortened season, Bell has been a productive big league hitter throughout his career.” His 120 OPS+ before 2020 is an indication of that. Age 26 is also the age MLB players start to reach their peak which is typically 26-30 for position players. Absolutely nothing can be taken from 2020, the conditions of which were so far outside the norm that many great players had absolutely horrible stats including the 2018 and 2019 NL MVPs.
Speaking of MVPs, in 2019 Bellinger had one extraordinary month, one really good month and was then league average from June through the end of the season. Was he a one month wonder? No. He was the MVP.
Most players have ups an downs in individual seasons. What matters is the numbers on the board as a total at the end of the season. Bell’s 2019 offensive numbers were outstanding.
In 2019 Bell hit .258 with a .874 OPS from August 1st through the end of the season. Not exactly falling off a cliff. In fact, that’s a great 2 months. What he had in 2019 was a bad 6 weeks from mid-June through the end of July.
Crowe is no great prospect. Yeah, maybe. You’re clutching pearls like you just traded prospect Stephen Strasburg and the next Pedro Martinez.
MLB Network said? Hmmmm…Was Ron Darling or Mark DeRosa present for that conversation?
@MetsFan22
How do you deny about your bullpen comment when others confirmed that you did say that?
Also, how can you say that I made that up, so you don’t know what else I made up about what you’ve said on that list I keep pointing out? It’s your words. How can you not remember what you say, unless it’s all just a troll job filled with comments that you don’t believe yourself? Or, if you’re forgetting your own comments, you need to stop the ‘puff puff’ so much if it’s affecting your memory. Or perhaps you need to see someone about those repressed memories.
But you know what, I did feel that you have selective memory and amnesia. You didn’t seem to forget when you disappeared this past season.
Stop denying what you said about the bullpen. You own up to every other crazy thing you say, why not that one?
I never said the Mets have the best bullpen. That was another Mets fan.
Exactly, me owning up to the other ones should make you think twice about this one. If I really said it I wouldn’t have a problem admitting as I do with the others.. there is other Mets fans here I and I remember seeing one comment something about the best bullpen once.. but it wasn’t me… I always thought our bullpen needed work.. and plus who said the the things I said are wrong. Mets have better roster than marlins and the standings don’t reflect on anything last year. Fluke year. Our OF is better than Ozuna… he has a great 60 games. Congrats.. our offense is also better and deeper than the Braves lineup. I would admit it’s close but Mets have the edge.. Mets are a top 3 team in the NL right now.
Dodgers
Braves
Mets
Padres
??
But I could see the Mets passing the Braves this year.
My question is always the same, for every team.
You finished last last year, beating out only Pitt and AZ. How did you go from last to #3. Stroman and McCann certainly help. But you finished a pro-rated 30 games behind the Padres, and I doubt Stroman wins 30 games this year.
Show me the math.
The Mets might not be a Top 3 team in the NL East. This is why you play the games. Until then cool it on the false proclamation.
The math will start to make sense when you start realizing it was a 60 game season…….
Too many words. You could have stopped after 20.
The math will start to make sense when you start realizing it was a 60 game season…….
——————————————————————–
If the math won’t make sense until the season starts, that means the math doesn’t make sense now, right?
Which is okay. I think if the RS can swing a trade for Castillo/Moustakis, and Sale & ERod are health in the 2nd half, then they are a WS contender.
But it is healthy to acknowledge that is the RS, like the NYMs, are currently in last place.
Mets have consistently failed expectations for years. Marlins rose above it.
I’m trying to understand the math. I remember when I did math and said that in 60 games, the Marlins had a chance to make the playoffs. I remember someone arguing against it when he said, “Even in 60 games, the Marlins will finish 15 games out of fourth place; 25 games out of first.” (MetsFan22)
Can someone explain that math to me and how it equates to some of the posts here?
It was a 60 game season. Not enough games for things to even out, thus not enough to truly judge by. Also, the Mets have the “advantage” of having obvious holes to fill. If Cohen is willing to spend up against the luxury threshold, say by signing Springer, 2 good starters and perhaps a good reliever, they’ll make up a ton of ground. They won’t likely be the best but they won’t be anywhere near a last place team. Improving up the middle defense and pitching depth will be huge for the team.
And I’ll say that again! Lol. Your holding on to a fluke season and thinking you were more right than lucky lol.
They need to get rid of everyone and start over. I like Bell, Frazier, Musgrove, etc. they finished last with them all. Time to break it all the way down and go with kids.
Could be a good trade for the Pirates who aren’t going anywhere but to the toilet in 2021. Bell will soon become expensive based on his 2019 year and who knows if he’s the real deal? The return could be nothing but also could either be key moving forward pieces or might be even more movable than Bell in July for even a better return.
Don’t the Pirates already have their fair share of SP recovering from TJ or injuries? I thought the Angels and Rockies were the worst run MLB franchises, but the Buc are right up there after this trade.
not a fun time to be a Pirates fan!
Love this return!! Eddy yean underrated in my opinion.
Looks promising, but you can’t really tell with a 19 year old.
You might be alone here, Bell’s value must be in the toilet if an untested 26 year old reliever and a pitching lotto ticket is all you can get.
Typical cherington trade… get used to them
Please provide past Comparisons. I can’t come up with them to justify the “typical” comment. You might be right but I’d like to read about the others.
He hasnt had much value as a pro
You mean a promising 26-year-old starter (NOT reliever) and another highly touted starting pitching prospect who has much more potential than a lotto ticket? Your personal analysis of the return completely contradicts what the article claims.
Marty-lotto tickets aren’t ranked in the top 10 in the organization, doesn’t matter how good or bad farm system is.
Incoming “stove is hot” comments
Stove heating up!
Does Rawlings make an oven mitt?
LOL that’s quality content @ully
This comment made reading all the other ridiculous comments worth it. Lol
thanks
Stove is hot
Stove now tepid!
I don’t think the stove is broken
I meant to say I think the stove is broken lol
Stove is pre heating
If you can’t stand the heat or even the lukewarm, get outta the kitchen!!
Microwave is now on eBay
woah
I hope the guys they gave up don’t do much. He hasn’t been good since the All Star break in 2019. I had a feeling he was on their radar but I would have preferred Kyle Schwarber. He is not a guy that will make teams pitch to Soto. They still need a third baseman. This trade weakens probably the worst minor league system in baseball.
Gee, just what we need here in Pittsburgh. Another trade in which the guys the Pirates got “don’t do much”. Thanks, and Merry Christmas
Pirates shouldn’t even have a team.
Just like you shouldn’t be allowed to comment.
Stupid statement ! Go to another board.
The 19 year old throws heat in the upper 90’s.
Mauricio Cabrera threw hard too. Then he couldn’t find the strike zone.
I heard that said about Bell’s 2019 before, but it’s not true.
August .261/.373/.554
Sept/Oct .250/.386/.417
Those are pretty good slash lines. I encourage you to look for yourself. Even his June and July, which is where he obviously goes through a slump, wasn’t all that bad.
According to your numbers which I did not verify, Sept and October he was only above league average in OBP. How is below league average considered “pretty good?”
A .417 SLG% is only slightly below average, while a .386 OBP is well above average (and a .250 AVG is close to average). That results in an OPS that’s above average, not below.
Ok. Well in 2019, (I don’t have the patience to figure out specifics months and add it all together) Adam Eaton had an OBP of .365 and SLG of .428, giving him an OPS within .010 points of Bell. It may be “above average” but the result still is not good. If he’s not hitting for above average power, Bell is just a below average 1st base bat. And I have no horse in this race, I just think the guy is overrated based on a couple good months. Even his minor league numbers give absolutely no indication that he is capable of sustaining those couple months worth of numbers. He’s 28 yo and has hit more than 14HRs twice in his whole professional career which goes back to 2012. Do you get an occasional Edwin Encarnacion who suddenly becomes a legit power hitter at age 29, yes, but that’s the exception, not the rule. Track record and age are against him. Even Brady Anderson suddenly popped 50HRs one year back in the 90’s. That did not make him a power hitter, and his track record won out. You want to focus on 2-3 months of a 9 year professional career and say the guy is a legit 1st base bat, go for it. I think he’s an average bat at best who had a couple good months.
All his stats in August through the end of the season are above average and his OPS+ is way above average.
You can say you are unhappy with the acquisition, but I think it’s just mean-spirited to hope the guys the Nationals sent out “don’t do much”. Those guys aren’t on the Nationals anymore, so it shouldn’t be hard to wish them well.
As a White Sox fan, I regret the Shields/Tatis trade – and didn’t like it at the time, and said so – but I never hope he fails; I like the guy and wish him well.
I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily mean-spirited. If he’s saying he hopes they “don’t do much” so that the trade looks good for his team, there’s nothing wrong with that, all fans want their team to “win” trades. He doesn’t have anything against those players personally I’m sure.
Oh no, your interpretation of someone’s comment might be mean spirited…
Turner/Soto/Bell would be a solid 1-2-3 in the batting order if they choose to go that route
It will probably go Turner/Soto/Castro/Bell
I imagine he’s hitting 4th behind Turner, Soto and Castro
LOL, you guys are forgetting Bell can’t play defense, can’t throw the baseball. How bad is he………Zim has a better arm than Bell!
Good thing he isn’t playing right field then
Why are you comparing first baseman throwing arms? Now I’ve seen everything!
You’ve seen everything huh? When the pitcher picks off a runner, the runner has broke to second, let me know how important it is for the first baseman to throw a strike down to second. Not to mention a cut-off throw that first base needs to throw to home or third. Not to mention 1B fielding a bunt and having to make a throw. Bell has no throwing abilities in these situations.
When the pitcher picks off a runner, the runner has broke to second,
————————————————————
Meh. The Pirate pitchers picked off 7 guys in 2020. Assuming all 7 were 1B POs, do you know if Bell missed any throws to 2nd?
Yes, I watch every game. He threw the ball wildly missing the SS multiple times. Maybe 1 in 4 reach the correct target…….that might be generous.
*Zim has a better arm than Bell!* – that’s just mean…
Cut off throws.
Throws to third.
Throws to second
3-6-3 double plays.
Has Soto ever batted anywhere besides 4th?
He had more plate appearances batting second and also batting third last year than batting fourth .. so yes. He only batted 4th when Rendon was there and the better hitter batting third. He is now their best hitter and will certainly bat 3rd if the manager is competent.
2020 PA’s by batting position
2nd – 59
3rd – 83
4th – 54
*He only batted 4th when Rendon was there and the better hitter batting third.*
It had nothing to do with “better batter”. It was to construct the lineup with the old right – left – right – left with Trea Turner (R), Adam Eaton (L), Rendon (R) and Soto (L).
Got it, both helpful answers. I’ve only ever seen him hit 4th and it all ways seemed like a bit of a waste.
I think a lot of teams will walk Soto to pitch to him. I don’t like the idea of Soto batting second and I don’t like Castro batting third. I think having your best hitter batting second is stupid. I don’t care about Trout doing it. The Angels.signed a 34 year old Pujols for ten years and also signed Josh Hamilton for five. What do they know? Those two contracts have been burdens for them for many years.. As it stands right now, I would put Turner fourth and Bell fifth. I do like the fact that he draws quite a few walks and is mostly a left handed hitter but they still need a third baseman.
Trea Turner will not be hitting 4th in The Nationals lineup in 2021.
There is being homers and being real homer’s. You guys haven’t even bothered to look at his streak of games since mid season 2019. If he’s your #5 hitter you are in trouble
August .261/.373/.554
Sept/Oct .250/.386/.417
That’s Bell’s last 128 AB’s. There’s this odd myth being circulated that he was terrible in the second half of the season but it isn’t true. His worst stretch of the season was in June and July and even that wasn’t that bad. So since you’re the one that’s wrong, maybe you don’t have to be so quick with the Homer comments in the future, right? =D
Those lines=Bad? No
But.. he was horrible in June+July, as you conceded. Then his Sept slash was about his career norms
So the hyperbole “last 3 months of 2019 he sucked” isn’t quite right, rather “3 of the last 4 months, he was either bad or just his old self.. while he had 3 breakout power months” is the proper diagnosis
But Is that really that much different? He was good for 3 months and meh or worse for the other 3. Does that really change the story? He still was not that great for 3 months, and pretty bad for 2
What I conceded was that even June and July weren’t that bad. He still had a .764 and .769 OPS in June and July. So it’s really more like for two months out of the year, he was kind of so-so. Face it. This is an issue that is being pushed to hard.
It’s really not being Overdone though. He hasn’t gotten anywhere close to that all star, 550 slugging level, aside from those 2 months, on any consistent basis
Otherwise, he’s been really bad or just Ok Josh Bell. However you classify it, it supports the notion that those 2 hot months in 2019 were aberrations and not true progress
And a 700 OPS from a 1B who sucks on defense and the basePaths is probably a negative war player. That’s bad man
Depends on who the 3B and corner outfielder is, provided they fill those voids thru FA
They may just go with Andrew Stevenson in left. They may sign Kevin Pillar to platoon. I think that would be good.
Holy Shit
the stove is HOT
What is the point of the Pirates? Is Pittsburgh that small a market?
Feeder team for the big markets.
It used to be the Kansas City Athletics were the farm team for the Yankees. Now the Pirates are the farm team for the rest of the league.
Not really. If anything its the Dodgers and Astros who are the farm for the rest of the league. The amount of elite players they have given up over the last decade is lengthy – and not a thing to criticize, as they won a title from giving up all that talent – but just proof that it has to go both ways.
Astros didn’t win a title
They banged one out though
Ha! Funny because it’s true.
Who have the astros given up?
And used a watch.
Hopefully he improves his WAR and UZR and some other sabermetrics, because the algorithms said he had a below average season in 2020, and I go by what they say, so as of now, he’s below average.
His defense has been bad and will be bad.
Nats praying for that DH….
Bell costs 1 run per game because of his glove and arm.
I don’t get this, are you trying to say the analytics have it wrong. He absolutely had a below average season in 2020 whether you look at sabermetrics or just good old fashioned counting stats. What’s your angle here?
“Even though he was bad, I don’t like how these stats say he was bad, so he was good”?
Great move for Nats
Wow! I thought Pirates would get more for him.
He’s below average in all sabermetrics and algorithms — the things that matter the most.
Yeah but he looks badass and mashes taters. 80 grade style, 70 grade power, 20 grade everything else.
What did advanced stats do to you? You seem to post negatively about them all the time but don’t say you think the player is good or bad and explain your reasoning.
You are like lolzmets randomly attacking peoples’ grammar, but you attack statistics in general.
No argument,t here, this statement is just 100% false.
wow
Crowe is one of the pitchers good return
Looks pretty mediocre to me.
Bell is mediocre
Should Ryan Zimmerman return he could platoon with Bell at 1B. Bell is a much better hitter from the left side and would probably benefit from a platoon
That’s what I am hoping happens.
Zim could also serve as a late inning defensive replacement. And still possible the NL ends up with a DH when the dust settles for this season.
Who will the Pirates move next? I am kind of surprised he was the first person they traded this off-season. I felt sure it would have been Adam Frazier or Joe Musgrove. Especially given they were talking about an extension a couple of months ago.
Who’s next? Anyone not named…..well never mind. They are all getting dealt!!!
O no. Polanco is untouchable! He will break out in 2021!
I imagine if the Pirates could trade Polanco for bag of sun flower seeds they would have by now.
Ke’Bryan Hayes may be the only “untouchable” on the Pirates right now. Everyone else can probably be had for pennies on the dollar
I would say Bryan Reynolds and Mitch Keller would be untouchables also.
He is under a large 11 million dollar contract and no trade value. He is hitting.100 in winter ball.
All will go
Well it looks like Luke Voit is staying put in New York.
Unless he’s now traded to the Pirates!
The dam is finally breaking
This team has become the laughing stock of MLB. I seriously thought that we had a decent front office in place. Guess I was wrong.
The front office is pretty good, that’s not the problem. Bob Nutting and the rest of ownership is the problem.
Don’t come crawing back to being a pirate fan when they are playoff contenders for 10 years. Cherington has been nothing less than fantastic so far. Nutting well certainly cut spending when it makes sense but likewise will spend a lil to fill a hole when necessary.
I knew when I created it that one day I’d need to update this name.
Evidently that day is today.
Rip
The Artist Formally Known As…
There you go, he can just change his name to a symbol.
Best change it to something involving Nutting. Three years from now he’ll be the only guy still there, to Pirates fans chagrin.
What Outlaw said. I read an interview from him several months ago saying he WAS willing to put money into the team when it’s the right time for that. Apparently that “right time” wasn’t when they had a winning team in 2013,14,15.
The Cubs were juggernauts then. Probably didn’t think it was worth it
The Cubs were last in the NL Central in 2013 and 2014…..
Who did you want them to sign that they didn’t in 13 14 15 besides Happ? Nutting spends money when it’s needed and makes sense. Liriano? Martin? Nova? Like most fans pirates fans are clueless.
haha, was wondering how you were handling this. Tough break, hopefully the return ends up working out.
Josh-Never ask for whom the bell tolls.
Or,you could become a NATS fan.
Stocking up on RHPs while there are still no LHPs or Cs to be found…strange start to the rebuild
I concur
They don’t grow on trees
The other 2 positions I listed are even more so
They need a team to offer a LHP or a good catcher. Not many teams are willing to give those two types of players especially for a potentially pretty good hitter who offers well below average,defense.
You take the best you can get. Can always trade for or sign any holes in your roster.
looks like at best AAAA players based on what i see from their minor league stats … mainly whip and so/w per 9. Nothing great about them of course that is just stats and not seeing them in person.
Nice of you to admit you know nothing about these pitchers.
Roll I agree, that 17 year old Dominican kid didn’t have very good numbers. Garbage pitcher.
I don’t understand all these “great add for the nats” comments. Did you see this guy last season?! He was TERRIBLE. I mean he was almost a certain out, especially in key situations. Pirates added by just getting his bat out of their lineup!
Really. GH’s been so inconsistent thorughout his entire career. 2019 was his only good season so far with the bat, and even then he was a completley different batter every month. He can’t field first base. We got 2 top 10 organizational prospects for a 28 going on 29 DH-limited player with an inconsistent bat. On paper, that’s a great trade.
Half of 2019. Once the all star game hit he was garbage
Couldn’t agree more tjeck109. That August and September of 2019 with only 10 hrs and a super low .380 obp was brutal. I would of just let him walk after that. Can’t believe they brought him back for 2020
He hit .258 with a .892 OPS in August and September 2019. Every team in baseball wants that kind of garbage.
Agreed. I’m not sure what others are seeing.
Agreed yohoho. Besides brad pitt, who cares about players getting on base.
I agree moneyballer, that whole huge month of August was awful, and I am sure everyone would like to forget that one week of July. I am surprised he even got tendered let alone actually brought back prospects.
@yournightmaregm Bell hit .267 with a .927 OPS in August 2019. If that is awful, I’m hoping all 8 Padres hitters are that awful in August 2021.
Great ad for The Nats.
Honestly, while I do feel like we’re selling low, it’s not a bad trade. Bell has been in the majors three full seaosns plus 2020 and he’s yet to put it all together. He’s 28 now and will end 2021 at 29. He can’t field either and his best position is DH. He’s been so inconsistent. Out of all the Pirates’ trade pieces, he feels the most overrated.
Yeah, he had one great stretch that got him selected to the ASG. Pirates are better off getting something for him now while they aren’t competing.
I guess the question is whether he’s the player from 2017 and 2/3 of 2019, or is he the player of 2018 and 2020… time will tell… sometimes a change of scenery and a different hitting coach can make all the difference… prob a smart gamble by Washington
League average in 2018 – .248/.318/.409/.728
Bell in 2018 – ..261/.357/.411/.768 and a 111 OPS+
When did being well above average become a bad thing?
Two top 6 prospects for Josh Bell….yikes
From maybe the worst farm system in baseball…
Wil Crowe is an untested 26 year old reliever and the other guy is a lotto ticket.
Lotto tickets aren’t rated as 3rd best team prospect, even in weak systems like the Nats. Admittedly a lot of time for things to go wrong for a 19 year old but that isn’t the same as a lotto ticket.
@marty Crowe is a starter. All three appearances in 2020 were starts and only one of 99 appearances in the minors was anything but as a starter.
GoLandCrabs — They are not Top 6 prospects.
Well at least Pittsburgh fans have the Steelers…
Not so much recently, they’re about to lose the division to the f’in Browns
I’m a Falcons fan.
Don’t worry, I have a P.O. Box you guys can send condolence cards and letters too. If you are wondering, yes it IS appropriate to take on funeral type of writing or expressions so statements like “I’m sorry for your loss” is not embellishing to much. =D
Man, I feel bad for the pirates fans if there still any.
I don’t. They had a good run 2012 to 2018. Will have a nice 10 year run in a few years.
Nationals just traded for quite the haul of strikeouts and bad at-bats. Pirates win this one and it’s not even close!
@lackofmoneyballer The Nats just traded for a 120 OPS+. hitter and a guy with a career SO% that is 3% less than league average. Facts are your friends.
Stfu. Take out the outlier 2019 season and re-examine your facts. Or better yet focus on the irrefutable FACT that he had 15 more strikeouts than hits for all of 2020 and posted a robust NEGATIVE WAR for the entire season. Yeah he’s a gem!
STFU Take out the outlier 2020 season and the Nats got a 120 OPS+ player. The last 2 NL MVP’s also had a terrible 2020 seasons. 34 of the top 100 hitters in 2019 had a 2020 season with their OPS+ 25% or more below career averages. So take your small sample size theater and try that on someone else.
Holy sheep $h!+
JOKE!
Three straight 50+ HR seasons a triple crown and an mvp on my The Show.
Good riddance to the worst first fielding baseman in MLB. If the Nat fans think they got a bargain they are in for a surprise.
When MLB announced no DH for the NL either Bell or Moran had to go.
like defense really matters when you’re losing 100 anyway
Nah, Moran would totally be traded as well if he had enough value. Dh has nothing to do with it.
Not the worst. That would be Luke Voit over the past 2 seasons and Garrett Cooper in 2020.
baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_aver…
Great trade for both! Mlb1225, be happy, this is a great get for yall! I am outside doing work and just decided to look up MLBTR and saw this. Shocking trade! Nats lineup gonna be good next season. Remember, this is the same team that lived off of a strong 1,2,3 punch in their lineup in 19′. Good trade!
I really think the Pirates are going to come out on top here. He’s has 3.5 fWAR and 2.6 bWAR in 2191 plate appearanecs. He can’t field first base, has only had one season with a wOBA above .350 and can never seem to put everything together. It’s not like he’s the 23 year old rookie anymore either. By the end of the 2021 season, he’ll be 29. Could it turn into a David Ortiz situation? Absoutley. But you can’t blame the Pirates for wanting to move on from him.
Yep. This gives both teams what they need. Pirates get a pretty good pitching prospect and the Nats get a bat – which in that lineup – could produce at a high level. Thats one of the first things I look for in bounce-back trades like this, lineup protection. Thats what Ortiz got in Boston, and thats what Bell is getting in Washington. Soto, Turner, Garcia, Robles, and Castro might not seem like world beaters, but slotting Bell in there makes it very diverse and I think a lot of production will come from it.
Lotto tickets aren’t rated as 3rd best team prospect, even in weak systems like the Nats. Admittedly a lot of time for things to go wrong for a 19 year old but that isn’t the same as a lotto ticket.
I wonder if Suarez will be headed there next.
Eugenio Suarez? The Nats probably don’t have enough decent prospects left in their system to make that happen.
Man. So many people are going to be so disappointed what Suarez nets in a trade if he’s dealt this offseason
Teams don’t care he squared a ball up 15 times. Woohoo. The 100 point slugging drop with shoulder surgery? AKA he was making worse contact on the whole? Yeah that’s no Bueno
Psst. Power is more than dingers
Maybe so. Although his 2020 monthly splits look more like he was recovering. OPS was July: .378; August: .804; Sept .883. SLG was .557 in Sept. A lot of teams likely still consider E. Suarez way more valuable than his contract (4yrs/$43.5M plus team option).
I’m not saying it’s impossible, I truly hope he recovers. I’m saying,imo, teams are not going to be lining up to take that whole contract AND give up significant young talent, when there’s *any* question on his long term health
If the reds don’t get that, they shouldn’t trade him. And I don’t think they are going to get that offer this offseason. Therefore, I expect fans to be disappointed. I may be wrong.
I’m not speaking about his trade value at the deadline or beyond. I’m saying right now, there’s enough of a health question, that IF the reds force the move this offseason, I believe it’s going to appear more as a money deal than a baseball deal. We’ll see
I like the return for the Pirates. Bell is trending down, but the Nats can platoon him. It’s also not unbelievable to see him returning to his 2019 form. So this is one where I like it for both teams.
Angels should pounce on this opportunity to deal one of their 1B and others for a Pirates pitcher.
If Bell is on, Washington has a nice lineup. A team good enough to make the playoffs.
They still need another bat I like bell hitting fifth or six much better than I do fourth. They need a bat like Bryant, turner, Brantley or lemahieu. And then I think they need another complimentary bat like Rosario, villar, schoop or a schwarber. Then they need an innings eater starter I think Someone like JA Happ, Lester, Chris archer, Porcello, walker, hammels even. And then they need an arm maybe 2 in the pen I like Shane Greene and maybe brad hand if they are willing to spend or some one like joakim Soria. Bell is a great start but if they really want to compete next year they have to get better in the pen and add to the lineup. They need another bat in the OF or at third I like the combination or Garcia and Casto at 2nd
Pirates are the most laughable team in MLB. You give up your only power, despite his suspect defense to get 2 border line MLB prospects and hope they can fill in the back end of the rotation? If bells worth dropped that quickly during a covid year then I would have kept him. interesting the Yankees were dangling Frazier or Andujar or was that just more rumors?
The Pirares are in total rebuild mode after years of poor drafting, player development, and unwillingness to spend after 2015 had left team in shambles. Even if Bell puts it all together he is approaching free agency and a Boras client, and therefore could not possibly be part of next competitive team in about 2024. They got what they could.
Sure just keep him for the heck of it.
Cool. Nice to see some Lukewarm Stove action.
Braves and Nats looking to battle it out for the NL East.
Bell will be missed in Pittsburgh.
for what bell did through 2020… not to shabby return. for what bell did before 2020 uh.. well… to me border line. probably could’ve gotten more.. not bad though.
I trust Ben’s evaluation of these players more than Neal so.. could be a ++ win for the pirates. Long term control, quality prospects which could have fairly high ceilings. Crowe is a bit older for a rookie though…
2020 Pirates first basemen is down to Moran and Craig. Honestly… they could provide as good numbers as Bell with more sure gloves and arms though moran’s range is still a telephone pole
With bell gone, I see Frazier or Brault next
There’s an “interesting” debate for you: who is worse in the field, Bell or Moran? I guess Moran since he usually fields what he can get to, he just can’t get to anything.
Moran is horrible at 3B and good at 1B
Moran and Evans will platoon and produce better combined numbers
Evans and Craig probably better combined lol. I’d probably keep Craig in “everyday” evens playing the utility role. Craig has potential to be “two” way reliever as well.
Craig got cut , Not on 40 man roster.
He cleared waivers, still property of Pirates in Milb.
If Evans will get back on the horse again…….first game at 1B and he had his collision with Polanco.
Good news: Pirates got a pretty decent return for Bell, probably about as good as they were possibly going to get.
Bad news: There are still a ton of glaring holes and weaknesses on that team, and depending on how ready Crowe is, this trade didn’t do much to solve them.
Pirates aren’t worried about holes and weakness in 2021. If they get a fair return they will trade 4 of their starting pitchers and 2 best relievers. 2021 goal is to trade all arbitration trade chips. 2022 see what prospects can do. 2023 the vast majority of elite prospects starts to come up. 2024 hopefully be good.
well… holes are there but there is some hope…
CURRENTLY could change tomorrow lol.
Frazier, Newman, Tucker, Gonzelez and probably Cruz at some point up the middle.
Stallings behind the plate, Hayes at third. Reynolds and a hopefully healthy Polanco and at some point Swaggerty.or Alford (who looked good before getting hurt)
“Could be” average+
Joe, Jameson, Steven, Mitch.. the pen looks like its in trouble though.
Expanded playoffs “could be” a long shot instead of no shot.
If the pirates are trading though…. a good portion of those will likely be gone.
Damn.
Seems pretty fair to me. Bell has all kinds of warts, and the prospects don’t seem all that exciting. And the Bucs (who don’t have any money) saved some. A non-fielding 1B just isn’t going to bring much.
Maybe Bell needed a change, he may improve in a better lineup.
A new coach/approach can’t hurt at this point
Bell is meh at this point. Not worth 2nd and 4th farmhand prospects imo. He had one good season (like many others who then flamed out). I think he’s a little better than Zimmerman but I wouldn’t bank on it without a fall back option (aka bringing back Zimmerman).
Who’s the GM’s top assistant?
MONTY HALL ??
Glad I’m not a Pirates fan !!
Can every baseball writer stop short of saying “breakout season in 2019”
The ball was juiced, everybody had 20+ HR’s
You just really hurt Joey Votto’s feelings with that comment after his 15 HRs in ’19, dude.
Ahhhhh Joey boy I’m sorry!!!
The Pirates do not know how to run a baseball team. On paper, this looks like an ok deal for them, but then you look at the Rays trading Nate Lowe, an unproven first baseman to the Rangers and getting better prospects in return and wonder what the pirates are doing. They could’ve gotten more but didnt. Yet another example of organizational ineptitude
The Pirates do not know how to run a baseball team. On paper, this looks like an ok deal for them, but then you look at the Rays trading Nate Lowe, an unproven first baseman to the Rangers and getting better prospects in return and wonder what the pirates are doing. They could’ve gotten more but didnt. Yet another example of organizational ineptitude
Nate Lowe is minimum wage; Bell is due (at least) 5M. Makes a HUGE difference.
But you’re right. Bucs are inept. Too bad; rich tradition, phenomenal ball park, devoted fans who deserve better.
“…rich tradition, phenomenal ball park, devoted fans who deserve better.”
Check. Check. Ehhhh….
Jesus give Ben a chance to pull a rabbit out of his a….ss ! Great young pitching is a good thing. I think it is going in the right direction for how things are run. At least i hope so. 1979 along time ago for me.
Ben already did in 2013.
difference in 2013 is that the redsox had the third highest payroll in baseball… and then finished last in the division the following two years. and resigned in 2015.
fact is, Ben only had one successful season as Boston’s GM and that season was basically bought with cash.. He then went on to sign some albatross contracts.
He does have an eye for young talent though. While a scout he had a hand in many of Bostons successful prospects. That ability is what is needed in Pittsburgh.
That is why 2013 was a rabbit out of the hat. Overpaying Stephen Drew, Something Carp and others somehow worked out. Core players having big seasons also helped. Cherington is someone I wouldn’t bet on.
It’s funny how people cry out “small sample size” when defending Bell and his 2020 season when in fact most of his production is actually the small sample size while his barely league average production is the norm.
A reasonable chance to take by the Nationals, in my opinion.. Pirates shouldn’t have waited to trade him, only to sell low.
Ben Cherington special. Get used to that.
Good gamble for both. If one or two of the pitchers hit. Pirates get some of the things they need. (Big list). And the Nats get a power bat they need. If Bell produces, I do not think he is too far from FA. Then they have the pay.
It would be better if one of the two pitchers pitches. DH coming to the NL and all.
Pirates still just a farm team
So I guess those Bell/Taillon packages that people spent two days on last month just never materialized? LOL.
Anyone who can be a free agent within 2 years needs to go. They will be bad for at least the next two years.
Trade Musgrove, Frazier and Taillion at the deadline. Get Moran, Gonzalez and hopefully Polonco’s value up and do the same with them.
Get another top 1-3 pick this year and continue to rebuild.
Not one player except maybe Hayes and Keller are untouchable.
i’d say stallings too. Pirates don’t have anyone in the pipeline and hes controlled through ’24
Stallings is a 31 year old catcher who had his only MLB success this year. The clock is pounding (not ticking) on him. All of the other presumed trades could possibly bring catcher talent into the pipeline, but even if you have to sign journeymen to catch in 2021 you have to move on from Stallings before the wheels fall off.
Nationals fans are just as bad as both NY fans. Never happy with what they get and when they do get something that looks good on paper, they turn on the player if they don’t perform at their standards.
Bell is still one of the hardest hitters in baseball. Only 6 other players hit harder than him and those 6 players had just as much of a issue in a 60 game season as Bell. Bell is suitable for the DH and if NL goes that route again, it’s a huge win for the Nats. Bell has a good lineup and Bell has support in front of him and behind him. Bell can definitely improve his numbers with the Nats lineup. I wish him the best in Washington
Nats have a lot of holes to fill and not a lot of money/prospects to do it with, so they are going to have to make some upside gambles. Bell has a lot of question marks but seems like on ok bet to me. Crowe has looked pretty meh so far (small sample size), but Yean seems to have real potential.
Now go get a corner OF, 3B, 2nd catcher, 4th starter, and a couple of bullpen arms. Realistically I see them signing someone like Duvall in the OF + giving Stevenson a longer look. Kieboom probably doesnt generate great trade offers and will get another shot at 3b along with Harrison. They resign Suzuki or grab another secondary catcher and sign someone like Taijuan Walker to a one year deal with an option.
Did not see this coming. Was there even an article or something saying “Nationals discussing Josh Bell trade”?
You would be surprised at the number of players who are discussed in potential deals that never get to the media
If he is like his dad Jorge he gone be good
huh. Pirates got fleeced.
I guess the Bucs are trying to lose 100+ games in 2020. Hard to guess what they’ve been up to the past few years. NL Central is weak, but not so weak that the Bucs have any real shot.
Will Craig becomes 1B. Also can play 3B and maybe OF.
Moran and Evans will platoon. Mason Martin will be the future at 1B will be in AA this year.
yeah.. Craig should be there in spring. His last shot… really his only shot since being log jammed.
Hard to judge. Which Bell is the real Bell? Someone got fleece, but that depends on which Bell the Nate got.
That Eddy is a YEAN, mean, pitching machine !!
Wow Pittsburgh could have gotten more than 2 players. Should have been a positional player and the 2 pitchers they got.
You must not have seen him try to play defense
You are wrong on this in many levels. Bell had a down year on a 60 game season, had a fall off after the All-Star break in 2019, and two season before that, he was mediocre at best. The Pirates are lucky to get 2 top 4 prospects in any organization. But again, they are unproven prospects and time will tell if they do work out in the majors. This could go for any other prospect(s) in a Bell trade. As a Pirates fan, I am happy with this trade and look forward to the future
that fall off the second half wasn’t horrible… he bounced back to finish off the season. 2020 was god awful.
Merry Christmas mats
Good move by the Nationals, but still the worst team in the division by a wide margin. Still in need of a catcher, second baseman, third baseman, right fielder, an entire bullpen and at least one more starter. And Max did not look great this year and he’ll be a year older next year. They just don’t have the resources to fill all those holes. No prospect capital and most of their contracts are deferred already. They’re in trouble I think. I know most of the homers are about to get butt hurt, but I guess we’ll know for sure once they finish last in the division again next year….
i dont think they are far behind the Marlins
I’m going to assume you meant the Mets, because as it stands today the Mets are the second worst team within that division.
you mean 2nd best (and that’s coming from a Phillies fan)
We’ll see about your prediction. I don’t think Rizzo is done yet, and if Scherzer, Strasburg and Corbin are healthy, that’s still the best top of the rotation in the division. Their BP is also more complete than you think.
The Braves are the only sure thing in the NL East, and I’d bet a large amount of money that the Nats won’t finish last.
Washington is the worst team “by a wide margin” in The Nl East. Wow, we all missed the story that MLB annexed at least a coupl;e of teams out of the division.
Wonder how long it will take for Nats fans to figure out Bell never learned how to throw and that he is the worst defensive player in the history of baseball.
Trade action yippee!
I was surprised at how little the Pirates received but then again I had the same comment for the Marte trade.
You need to get at least three of these type of minor league players for every reasonably good ML player in return as so few really work out.
I smell another salary dump.
Bell I think is a good guy and tries to get better.His meteoric two months in 2019 early summer were historic,but the home run derby killed him like others before him.That year was historic for the juiced up ball as many profited from it.
He has the worst arm of any MLer who I have seen so there is no wonder that he cannot play right field.He did develop a fine stretch at first base,and was passable regarding fielding ground balls.He just does not seem like a natural fielder in the least though.
He tied the all time NL rookie record for switch hitters for home runs in 2017,but did not hit well in 2018(10 or 12 home runs).They will be playing Moran there now and he is probably a little better fielder but Wes Parker he is not either.
NH actually turned into a fine trader (Archer trade notwithstanding) but BC does not impress me in the least.
I appreciate the comments about empathizing with Pirate fans as our long national nightmare is not quite over.
BC did well for Red Sox and won a World Series through draft and such. Just give it time and NH started blowing trades before and after Archer trade. His departure was long time coming since he was a big supporter of Searage. It’s time to let go of that nightmare and move on. The light is dim once again in Pittsburgh, but we can be hopeful to see progress within a few years.
SW-BC forte may be drafting and development and that is what the Pirates need most of all but I think that he has basically given away his two best players which does not impress me in the least.
He could have kept Bell for another half year or year and gotten a better haul for him.He is not a pitcher who the GM has to be careful does not get hurt like NH and Cole.
Not sure what other recent trades you are saying NH blew.
You can be hopeful for progress but I see a merry go round unless BC lives up to the hype regarding drafting and development.We shall see.
ML- 1) Liriano/Reese McGuire trade 2)Garret Cole trade (Ace for a back of the rotation starter and a defensive specialist 1B/3B?) 3) Jacoby Jones trade (feel he was rushed by Tigers and done well with the Pirates) 4) Luplow to Indians trade. I can point out quite a bit of trades during NH tenure and be going on all night. Only trades he got right was AJ Burnett and McCutchen/Reynolds trades. NH gutted the farm for what? They sold us on the system and they traded the system away, piece by piece. This set them back 5-8 years (if done correctly). DC I have faith in and will take those two prospects and see where the cards fall. Bell had 1 good season you many of you Pirates fans expect a kings ransom. After that sickening Archer trade, you guys set the bar for something like that. It won’t happen and Rays have been lucky to get trades like this throughout their existence.
SW-FL was a salary dump pure and simple and they had to include the two young players for the Blue Jays to accept.It freed up money that was going to waste and RM has shown nothing other than a small sample in one year.
He decided to trade GC with two years remaining and got what he could for him.In hindsight his mistake was not moving him at the trade deadline but what happens if his arm goes south in the interim as injuries curtailed his production for two years.The Pirates knew that they could not resign him.
JJ has done nothing in 5 1/2 years and they took on salary with a very good relief pitcher in JS when they were contending.
Luplow had a good season against lefties only but has been bad otherwise.Gonzalez is a poor man’s SRod and every team can use such a player.
I think that BC pays so much attention to development that his skill at trading may not be all that great.There was absolutely no reason why he had to trade Bell at this time.
ML- But you are clearing supporting selling out a system. Liriano was not wasted money. They could have kept him in the pen and kept Reese McGuire. Jacoby Jones was rushed to the majors. Many in his draft class was 2 years behind him and how is that righteous to his overall production? You know the Pirates would have held him down in the minors like he was meant to be. Tigers are horrible with prospects and the league knows this. Luplow would be a nice back up to Polanco issues and Marte being traded during those times. Jones/Luplow platoon doesn’t sound so bad. Reese would be behind the dish right now and I would be happy with that. Cole gave us peanuts and really could have gotten us better package elsewhere. I think NH went with quantity over quality there. NH was the worst possible trade partner for the Pirates. Of all those trades, Pirates have nothing. NH did alright when he had a draft pick within top 20 and got some talent. Hayes and Keller is a NH product from the draft. So saying that BC may have the “eye for development and drafting” but nothing else, I’d say that is silly talk. BC traded for Sale and several others to help Betts and also got JD Martinez in a trade. I’d say, that’s better than what NH did
SW-I doubt that any team would want to pay a decent reliever $24 M for a year and a half,even a big market team.Jones was never rushed to the majors by the Pirates.Anyone would be an upgrade to Polanco at this point and I was surprised that they traded Luplow but he has cerainly done nothing more than Gonzalez at this point and does not have the versatility.The same with McCall who would have been nice to keep but clearly has not proven to be anything more than a backup.If he could have received more for Coke don’t you think he would have taken it?The Yankees would not pony up for a potential all star pitcher but no one else was either.Perhaps they knew that Cole was a head case.Remembr the Boras hat he wore right after the Astros lost the seventh game?Where was his heart and mind?NH needed to be better at scouting and development and that is the main reason that he lost his job.
BC lost his job in Boston for a reason.Time will tell whether he has learned anything in the interim but he is clearly not impressing me with his trade acumen and I think the other GM’s smell blood in the wate.
2 top 100 prospects for a slightly above average p.e.d user 31 year old outfielder making 10 million a year seems good to me.
I will also take 2 top 200 prospects, one that will probably be in the top 100 in a few years. For a average dh.
And doesn’t make much sense how a average dh with only 1 year left gets more in trade then having 2 years left.
@mendoza Bell hit .258/.377/.516/.892 in August and September 2019. That is really good. He had 6 bad weeks in 2019, from mid-June through the end of July and then rebounded to hit very well to close out the season. He hit better in 2018, 111 OPS+, than he did in 2017, 109 PS+.
Padsfan-I am a Pirates fan and think that Bell is a good player.I think that it will turn out to be a bad trade.He has some holes in his game but is worth twice as much as they got for him.Not sure why you think so but you do not have to sell me on Josh Bell.
IMO, I think it’s a fair trade for both sides. Bell has regressed since his standout first half of 2019, but I do think a change of scenery is gonna do him good, especially if the Universal DH is approved. Zimmerman coming back will allow Bell to DH. If not, then he still has shown at least 30 HR power that fill fit nicely as a switch hitter to get more LH hitting in a potentially RH heavy lineup.
For the Pirates to get 2 top 10 prospects for Bell isn’t too shabby either. Will Crowe at least projects to be a back end rotation starter, but has a chance to earn a spot in the rotation. Yean is the real prize for me, It’s to early to tell with a 19 year old, but if he gets the chance to develop as a pitcher it could be something.
All in all, I’m just happy we have at least some kind of move to talk about this offseason. lol
This is a fantastic, in depth article. Nice work Steveo!
Surprised at all of the “he’s overrated, because he was bad for two months” posts. How about if we look at his career numbers. He’s got 1900 career ABs with .261/.349/.466/..814 and has averaged 25HR and 90RBI per season. Yes, he had a crummy 2020. So did Cody Bellinger and Christian Yelich.
In addition, the Nats will have Ryan Zimmerman as a 1B platoon, taking advantage of Bell splits vs RHP.
Doesn’t appear as if the Pirates got something of quality in return. Damn shame.
Bell, outstanding work ethic, leader in club house, community favorite. So sad it just didn’t work out for him in Pittsburgh. Good Luck Josh. A new start.
Why?!?
Good addition for the Nats.
NL East will continue to be tough.
Big shock. Idk about the guys Nats gave up. PIT fans, is it enough?
“…the rebuilding Pirates…”? I must have missed when they were built.
2013-15 then the early 90’s before that………….
Do either of these pitchers factor into the Pirates contending at any time? Probably not. Did the Pirates get 2 pieces they can flip into 4 pieces? Probably not. Does anyone feel the Pirates will ever contend under this ownership?
Playoff contenders for 10 years. 3 years from now.
Your dream gm-Unfortunately,you are dreaming,and I am a Pirates fan.
Small market teams have a three year window of contention as they will not be able to resign any stars unless a big pockets owner willing to spend owns the team.
That three year window is not guaranteed because of the production fluctuations of players like Josh Bell who at one time was the hope of the Pirates.
These teams have no chance unless they get very lucky or they have one of the top five scouting and development teams.
I think that if you look at the small market team histories over the last thirty years you probably will see some of correlation.The Pirates were really only contenders,albeit very good ones,from 2013-2015.
No amount of dreaming will change this until MLB changes the devotion to making money for the biggest markets.
They will be good from 2023 to 2033. Of course injuries or bad years will occur. But going into every season you will be able to invision 80 wins or better. Well maybe not you, but I will. Their core won’t come on until 2023 2024, so they will have 6 years of malone priester yean thomas Mlodzinski bolton. Someone out of that group should emerge as at least a 2 or 3. Hopefully more than one and maybe the others can be 4 or 5s. Also maybe a few lower prospects develop. So they could be set until 2030. Same with position players. One of their 3 shortstops hopefully amounts to something. 1 outfielder out of 3. Gonzales at 2b or maybe 2 ss succeed. Maybe things don’t go right in 2028 2029 2030 and you flip some of these for more prospects. Maybe you have prospects to replace them so you trade them even if you are contenders still like tampa cleveland do. At worst you have them until 2030. Hayes Reynolds a few years less. Maybe they sign them to team friendly deals.
2021 1st pick and I am sure 2022 will be a high pick and good chance 2023 as well. These guys will be locked even longer. Musgrove Tailon Kuhl Brault Rodriguez Stratton and who ever else emerges to have value will bring back good prospects as well. Pirates are going to have a top 5 farm easily. Simply will be so many prospects that enough will emerge. Now will they develop good enough to be championship contenders or just good enough to be the 9th wild card team? That we will have to wait and see.
It is not worth being awful for three years to have a chance for a last wild card team for a few years.
I admire your ability to predict ten years into the future.
Please tell me who the Kentucky Derby winners may be in each year so that I can lodge my bets now.Even if you only get three right I can make a lot of money at this early time.
Horse racing doesn’t fall into my expertise. But screen shot my comment. Make a note of my predictions and stick it on the fridge. I welcome you to throw it in my face if I am wrong. But I am your dream gm so you should just trust me. Seen you and Shannon talking about the Luplow Gonzalez trade. Do a search on Tahnaj Thomas. That’s who the pirates got in that trade. Kid throws 100 mph. Only been pitching a few years. NH knew what he was doing. BC even more so. NH made one awful trade cost him his job. BC signed some bad free agents. Cost him his job. Fortunately he won’t be giving out any big contracts in pittsburgh so nothing to worry about. 2023 you will see these prospects hit the majors. 2024 will be interesting. 2025 to 2033 the pirates are at least playoff contenders, yes wild card or winning the weak central. As of now it looks like that. The prospects they currently have aren’t really elite. The safest ones project as just ok to good players and #3 starters. They have some that could be great but are raw and don’t have good odds. But if 2 or 3 do hit then it’s world series contenders. Because they also will have a high draft pick for the next 2 or 3 drafts. That’s where the elite more likely to succeed talent is, 1 St pick, sometime top 3, top 5 or even top 10. There is always a drop off somewhere. You become a good mlb team by two ways. Either spend 200 million or you trade off all your players and stink for 3 years to aquire high draft picks. Unless you are they rays indians who just keep developing and trading expiring assets. I see from you and most pirates fans so much negativity. The team has no elite talent. Marte and Bell are just average players. Average players don’t bring back much. BC being willing to accept teenagers got back more than he should have. If you can’t get behind a rebuild and get excited about how great of a job BC is doing then just take a break from pirates baseball and check back in 2024. Pirates are going to be terrible 2021 and terrible 2022. Won’t even be many good prospects to watch until 2023. If anyone offers anything for any of the 5 starters or relievers then they are gone. If any remaining ones do good they are traded at deadline. If any remaining ones do good 2022 they are gone. Pirates have the 8th to 18th best farm depending on how optimistic you are. And will have high draft picks the next 3 drafts. There is going to be a lot of talent coming.
I do not necessarily disagree with what you said.Unlike some of these posters here I am not negative.I am what is known as a realist.What you have stated here in this long paragraph does make sense,but you seem to be also saying that they need elite prospects to really have a chance at a WS.
Rose colored glasses do not always work,especially ones that enable you to see far into the future.Taillon,Polanco,and Bell were projected to be impact players just three or four years ago.Sometimes life and reality gets in the way..Statistics are a big part of baseball now,sometimes too big,but one statistic reflects reality to the utmost.One small market team has won the WS since 1991.
They may very well be a good team by 2024,especially in adivisonnthat will not be strong.I hope that you are right in your prediction pat that but as the Pirates proveany more than 3-4 years is totally a crapshoot.
Yeah darn, I got carried away! They weren’t seen as great prospects by me. Taillon was, I didn’t predict 2 TJ’s. That why I say they might have a few non playoff years. They are going to get at least 3 elite prospects from being bad. I believe you have to have at least 1 elite hitter and 2 elite pitchers to contend for a world series. Pirates will draft them in the next 3 drafts. Will all 3 make it to that status in mlb? Odds aren’t good. But can someone that wasn’t a top 5 draft pick become elite? Absolutely. I am a realist as well. BC is adding prospects any way he can. Will add enough to contend in the weak central. To get to world series he needs to hit on 3 elite guys. More is better but at least 3. Basically the 2013 -15 teams with 2 elite pitchers or cole being great for more than one season. A cutch and two astro coles.
Then perhaps you are my dream GM!
Seems like a good trade albeit Nationals need to pray Bell rebounds most of the way back to his 2019 numbers.
Hopefully they watched some film on him instead of praying.
Great trade for both. Underrated prospects. The young one has chance to be elite. Bell wouldn’t extend so had to be traded sometime. This haul is plenty enough to take now opposed to gambling that he bounces back. Nats either got a solid hitter power hitter or pedro alvarez 2.0 I can’t predict which one.
Makes him one of the best first basemen in the NL East.
1. Freeman
2. Alonso
3. Josh Bell
4. J Aguilar
5. E Thames
6. A first base prospect on each team
7. R Hoskins
Hopefully you are being sarcastic because outside of bells huge 2 months in 2019 with juiced balls Rhys has been better than bell every year in pretty much every category.
@rofl Hopefully you are being sarcastic, because outside of 6 weeks in June and July, Bell was the best hitting 1B in baseball in 2019. Rhys makes Bell look like a good fielding 1B.
Sorry Thames is no longer with Nationals
Bell at a 116 OPS+ or 114 WRC+ isn’t unreasonable to expect and he’d be a considerable improvement over Thames last year.
If Bell can this return.. I’m wondering what DET could get for Candelario? I understand where Nats are coming from, but I mean this looks like a flat-out no brainer for Pitt.
-Get this kind of return*
Wil Crowe was one of the best high school and college pitchers in the nation
Guess you haven’t seen him actually pitch in the big leagues yet. Yikes.
Wow, the Nats gave up noooothing.
19 year old that already tosses 97mph, big frame guy who projects as a starter. Not nothing.
Good one Veejh. Yeah just a couple of their top pitching prospects from their already weak farm.
Crowe is not good. Maybe the Pirates can develop him somehow, but I already wrote him off.
I never said he was good, just that he was one of the nationals best prospects. I haven’t wrote him off yet though. I wrote somewhere else people see his poor mlb showing and his age and think he is a bust. When you go to college and have tj you are going arrive later. He was called up as a desperation move. He has always had talent and highly regarded. Has multiple pitches. Control is something that can be improved. Would feel better about the rays or dodgers unlocking it, but let’s see what the pirates can do with him.
Why would he be owed a raise when He hit poorly, they should lower his salary
Biggest loser here is the Chicago Cubs. This move should end any Kris Bryant to Nationals chatter. Take them off the list of potential trade partners. Can’t see Nationals further cutting into their farm system depth. Bryant would require a bigger return than Bell, and may well produce less offensively.
Disagree on both points. Based on reading between the lines of gm talk. Riz would like to keep what little is left of the farm but ownership wants to contend now and told him to go out and get the players.
Bryant had a awful 2020 as well. Only has 1 season left opposed to bells 2. Cost a whole lot more salary wise. And Bell if anything is always healthy. Bell also brings to the table more pr advantages.
That being said I think the Cubs asking price might be too high, not that Bryant has more value then Bell.
Cherington will trade any arbitration player for a right handed teenager that can throw in the high 90s. Would the Cubs accept that?
Nobody wants Kris Bryant at $18M+. If you disagree, who do you think does? The Cubs, maybe. That’s the list.
Well definitely the Cubs since they paid him. Nobody wanted hand for 10 so 18 isn’t really appealing. I think any or most contenders with a 3b need want him. Just that the Cubs want more than they want to give. I think the Cubs think that bryant’s value is as high as Cubs fans think. I can see rizzo giving up another similar haul maybe, definitely half the haul. Cubs probably dreaming of a top 100 haul.
Pirates should have been able to get more for Bell. Sold low on him in my opinion, and it stinks cause I hate the team the sold low on him too
They sold low because they once again waited too long. Bell was never going to be a player you build around. 2019 figured to be a pretty good chance he’d never exceed, and when he was cheaper.
It’s like Vazquez. While you can never anticipate that level of insanity, a good GM should recognize when a player has reached the tipping point, where he is unlikely to exceed his current valuation. Even if Vazquez was a model citizen, the upside is he gets more expensive with less service time. The downside might be more like Diaz, where his performance suffers, or like Giles who gets hurt before you get a chance to move him.
JoeBrady, absolutely silly to include Vazquez in this discussion. He had not reached a point where his value was declining. Vazquez’ value vaporized in a flash of unforeseen circumstances.
Of course he reached the point where his value was going to decline.
1-He was likely to be worse in 2020 than he was in 2019. Every stat was a personal best in 2019. Had Vazquez merely reverted to his 2018 stats, people would’ve been asking what was wrong with him.
2-Instead of having 4 years of control, you only have 3 years of control. That’s also a decline.
3-2020 would’ve cost $5.75M. 2021-23 cost $9.25M/season.
All three are causes for his value declining, particularly the loss of service time. And that doesn’t include performance and health risk Again, compare him to my Diaz example. Diaz returned Kelenic, Dunn, and the Cano contract. Diaz wouldn’t get half that return now.
But that’s not even the worst part. The worst part is that Vazquez’ value to Pitt was effectively -0-. They were finishing last with or without him. Maybe they’d play .375 with him, and .313 without him, but does that really make any difference to Pitt fans? It shouldn’t, imo.
Joe,I nderstand your logic,but we do not really know what was offered for Vasquez.
Was it middling to good prospects that BC received for Marte and Bell,or were they better or worse.NH seemed to have been talking to the Dodgers who needed one more excellent reliever in 2019 to solidify their bullpen.The Pirates needed a catcher and pitching help.The Dodgers had not won the WS in 31 years at that point.To their credit they have an excellent scouting and development group,but they do not tend to want to trade their young players who are very good.They,like the Yankees and Gerrit Cole in 2018,May have missed out on a WS chance because of their love of prospects.
The Pirates philosophy has been to stay good enough to compete for the wild card,and they think that getting into the playoffs gives them a chance to win it all.They refused to say in 2019 that they were rebuilding.I think that is past due now.
My guess is that all NH was 7nderwhelming proposals and he decided to keep the best player tha5 they had.No one saw how terrible they would be 2020.And nothing is worse on any competitive team than not having a good closer.
Trade chips were very important to NH near the end of time in Pittsburgh and he used them in a careful manner.The fact that he had many years of control at affordable rates fit the Pittsburgh method of trying to stay competitive,which,as a small market team,is one way of managing the team.
Every minor league player is a crap shoot,and unless you are forced to trade because of an overwhelming offer,or short period of control,the overriding philosophy for Pittsburgh has been to stay the course.
They refused to say in 2019 that they were rebuilding.
————————————————————–
That’s part of the problem, and not an uncommon problem in MLB. Teams that are really good, and really bad, know exactly what their status is.
Too many teams don’t make the 100% commitment to rebuilding. IMHO, bad teams need to look at their roster, and jettison everyone that will not be part of their next contending team.
Joe-But it is a tough call,and may be the toughest,as to how well your players and hence the team will get to be.The teams that are annually losing 100 games are in your second category.But the Pirates are in danger of losing whatever fans they have if they stay as bad as they were in 2020 for a very long time.
The other problem with that philosophy is that the other teams know that they can try to poach the good players from you like the Dodgers did with Vasquez in 2019 and the Marte and Bell trades this year.
I think that every team has a right to their own philosophy.I just hope that 2020 was the nadir of disgrace for the Pirates because quite frankly this division is anyone’s but the Pirates for the taking.And you might see the Brewers,Reds,and Cubs battling with the Pirates at 75 wins for second place unless BC stops giving everyone away.
Cherington just came on board only a year ago. Based on 2019, it seemed reasonable that Bell could be,a building block. He might have been getting similar offers last off season or not much better. If that was the case, was worth the gamble to see if he could hit like he did the first half of 2019. Never happened. If you wait now, and he still,does not revert to 2019, you will get even less.
Here is the truth.
Bell had a terrible year. He was so afraid of covid he didn’t want to touch the ball.
The two prospects traded, are two suspects. The Pirates didn’t gain anything.
He seemed pretty afraid of the ball his whole career while in the field. Aside from the end of 2016 when he came up the first time and the first half of 2019 he was very streaky. He fell after the all star game in 19 and has yet to recover..That is what I saw watching him play since he hit the bigs. Have never seen the 2 guys coming from the Nats but what I hear is Crowe is slightly above average and Yean has the potential to be top end if he continues to develop. Cherrimgton has a rep,for talent evaluation on younger guys. Picked up a couple of very good prospects from Arizona for Marte. We shall see if he is right on Yen.
Forgot to finish. Considering the large liability that Bell is on defense and the large lack of consistency in hitting over his career, the return seems adequate to me.
great trade for the nationals i don’t the pirates have any idea what they are doing bell will not be a free agent until after the 2020 season
The Nationals would disagree that Wil Crowe is *now* a “Top 6” prospect. It’s been reported that Washington had seen what they wanted to see of Crowe and weren’t terribly sad to see him go. And The Pirates apparently seemed to “somewhat” agree, since Yean was apparently their main focus in this trade. Time will tell what will come of these players, but right now, this trade is a win-win that fills a need for both teams.
3 years ago, Rizzo said that a 17 yo kid named Juan Soto was going to be the one guy in their system to light up the league. This is when every scouting service had Victor Robles (who has struggled so far) well ahead of Soto. Prior to May 20, 2018, every Nats fan, including me, was focused on Robles. Not Soto. So it’s what The Pirates think of Crowe and Soto that matters. Wish both kids the best and hope they have great careers.