FEB. 2: Both teams have announced the trade. The Angels will pay $5MM of Cobb’s $15MM, and some of that includes deferrals, Connolly tweets.
FEB. 1, 12:42pm: The Angels will send infield prospect Jahmai Jones to the Orioles as part of the discussed deal, Rosenthal and colleague Fabian Ardaya report (Twitter link). The Orioles are eating more than half of Cobb’s $15MM salary in order to facilitate the deal, according to Connolly.
It’s rather surprising to see Jones included in this swap. While his stock has tumbled in recent seasons, he’s a former second-round draft pick who at one point ranked among MLB’s top 100 prospects at Baseball America, MLB.com and Baseball Prospectus. Baseball America ranked Jones 11th on the Halos’ 2020-21 list.
The 23-year-old Jones went 3-for-7 in a very brief MLB debut with the Angels in 2020, so he’s a departure from some of the Orioles’ other prospect acquisitions. He’s a near-MLB-ready piece that could be plugged into the big league mix as soon as this season. Jones has played second base and center field throughout his minor league career. His bat has stalled a bit in Double-A, where he’s batted .237/.315/.338 in a very pitcher-friendly environment.
9:54am: The two teams are indeed in talks on the trade, though MLB.com’s Joe Trezza tweets that it’s not yet close to completion. Talks still “seem to be trending in the right direction,” per MASNsports.com’s Roch Kubatko.
9:20am: The Angels and Orioles are working out a trade to send right-hander Alex Cobb from Baltimore to Anaheim, Dan Connolly and Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic report (via Twitter). Details are still being finalized, Connolly adds. The Orioles are surely including some cash to offset a portion of the $15MM that Cobb is owed under the final season of his four-year, $57MM contract with the O’s. That deal contains a 10-team no-trade clause, but the Angels either aren’t on it or Cobb is willing to waive it to move to a more competitive club.
Cobb signed late in the 2017-18 offseason, inking his surprising four-year pact with the O’s on March 21, when Spring Training was nearing its completion. He didn’t make his team debut until April 14 that year, but even with some extra time to tune up, it appeared that the lack of a full Spring Training was tough on Cobb, who was tagged for 17 runs on 30 hits in his first three starts.
From that point forth, Cobb largely righted the ship, pitching to a respectable 4.22 ERA from May through season’s end. Cobb’s strikeout percentage was nowhere near what it’d been at his best in Tampa Bay, however, and that remains the case today. A back injury torpedoed Cobb’s 2019 season, but he returned in 2020 to make 10 starts with a 4.30 ERA (4.65 SIERA), a 16.8 percent strikeout rate and an eight percent walk rate.
Cobb’s recent strikeout rates are well south of the league average, and last year’s eight percent walk rate was his highest since his rookie year back in 2011. His Statcast profile doesn’t paint a particularly favorable picture, as his hard-hit rate and average opponents’ exit velocity were among the highest marks of any pitcher in the league. Cobb’s 54.5 percent ground-ball rate is encouraging, though — particularly when considering that he’d be playing in front of a strong infield defense in Anaheim (Anthony Rendon, Jose Iglesias, David Fletcher).
Certainly, Cobb isn’t the top-of-the-rotation starter that most believe the Angels need, but the cost of acquisition here is likely to be relatively small, and he’ll give the Halos another able-bodied arm to soak up some innings. Teams need far more than five starters to get through a 162-game season under normal circumstances, and that reality will be amplified exponentially in 2021 after last year’s shortened schedule truncated every Major League pitcher’s workload.
Cobb joins Dylan Bundy, Andrew Heaney, Griffin Canning, Jose Quintana, Shohei Ohtani, Jaime Barria and Patrick Sandoval as rotation options on the 40-man roster for the Angels. It’s likely that everyone from that bunch will get some starts, and it’s worth wondering whether the Angels will consider a six-man rotation given their bulk approach to their rotation composition. That will be determined by new general manager Perry Minasian and manager Joe Maddon, the latter of whom is plenty familiar with Cobb after managing the first several seasons of his career with the Rays.
For the Orioles, subtracting Cobb from an already suspect rotation thins out the depth and, more importantly in ownership’s eyes, scales back the payroll. Even with Cobb on the books, the Orioles’ payroll sat at just $64MM, but this deal could drop them below the $60MM mark, depending on how the financial details are sorted out.
If Cobb indeed departs, left-hander John Means would be the only lock for the Baltimore rotation. Younger options like Keegan Akin and Dean Kremer seem likely to be given the opportunity to earn Opening Day spots, and the Orioles have several potential rotation pieces on their 40-man roster: Bruce Zimmerman, Jorge Lopez, Michael Baumann, Zac Lowther, Alexander Wells.
General manager Mike Elias spoke recently about the possibility of signing a veteran starting pitcher, and the need for depth is only further underscored by the trade of the team’s most experienced starter. It’s likely that whoever the Orioles bring in will command less in terms of salary than whatever sum the Orioles are saving in the Cobb deal.
Last year, Elias filled out the rotation by signing Wade LeBlanc and Tommy Milone to non-guaranteed deals that eventually paid them less than $1MM apiece upon earning roster spots in Spring Training. It’s plausible, if not likely, that the Orioles will take a similar approach in the weeks ahead.
Such an Angels type of move
Cobb, Trout . . . Too bad they missed out on Anthony Bass
Seams like your are fishing for a response to your post.
Naw. Just reeling from the Angels acquiring another cast off
LOL
Maybe they could draft a young starter in the Cod League
Surely they could trade for a young minor league starter instead. Perhaps from the Blue Wahoos?
Maybe they could find some new talent across the pond?
Lol
It seems like every year now the Angels have been acquiring subpar SP’s just for the halibut.
You all need to quit your Carping; you’re starting to flounder.
Seriously – what’s the porpoise. Cod.
Another season of wasting a once in a generation talent
Did they force him to stay there? Seems like he signed that $300+mm contract of his own free will.
Sorry Geg but NO ONE put a gun to Mr Trout’s head when he signed that 12 year contract. He went for the $$$$$ and nothing more. He knows what a cheap POS Moreno is and Arte has NO INTEREST in winning a WS. He buys players from the 99 cent store or he gives out horrible contracts like he did with Albert.
Yeah that $240m Pujols deal was awfully cheap. So was that $245m Rendon deal. If only the guy was willing to give out large contracts.
He buys players from the 99 cent store or he gives out horrible contracts like he did with Albert.
=======================================================================
In a discussion like this, I think you have to choose between Moreno being too cheap or too extravagant.
You can’t criticize him for both.
spinach3 hours ago
Yeah that $240m Pujols deal was awfully cheap.
================================================
Wells, Upton, Hamilton, and others. You can accuse Moreno of hiring poor GMs, but not for being cheap.
@JoeBrady 1) tell that to the scouts and staff they furloughed in May…and 2) they have a $3billion dollar/20 year tv deal…and yet he never spends enough to field a team that gets to the post-season.
And it wasn’t the GM’s responsible for most of those big deals – Wells, Hamilton, Pujols et al.; most people will tell you that Arte made those deals against the advice of his GMs
Moreno isn’t cheap. There’s a difference between being inefficient w your dollars and “cheap”
The Angels aren’t the Dodgers or Yankees. He runs up a high payroll—it’s just not allocated in the right places. You often can’t just “buy” a winner anyway. Internal Player development will always be the most important aspect of a winning team. What have the Angels developed since Trout? Andrew Heaney and David Fletcher?
There’s not a lot of guys who have come up through the Angels system in the last half decade that are impactful major leaguers.
JB, I know for a fact that the signings of Hamilton and Pujols were based on marketing.
I guess if Moreno can’t market a player, he wont spend.
I mean was Tony Two Bags a marketing ploy too?
You need to develop talent to win. And let’s be honest—the Angels haven’t developed much impactful talent aside from the best player in the game. Teams that win championships do so w/ guys they’ve developed and then supplement those guys w/ free agents.
Geg42: Un, excuse me? How in the world do you consider this next season a waste of a “once in a generation talent?!”
Cobb ain’t that good
His point is that Moreno is either at one end of the spending spectrum or the other, which is accurate. An owner can absolutely hand out big, awful contracts and also go with cheap, ineffective contracts while avoiding smart, middle of the road contracts in general, and that is what Moreno tends to do. The saying, “you can’t have it both ways” does not apply here.
No, I don’t believe they forced him to stay, he just couldn’t pass up what they were offering him, despite the fact that they are a dumpster fire.
If only they can get Tim Salmon back as a coach.
Is Mike Carp available?
And a cross-city trade for A.J. Pollock?
Bring back Hank Conger?
Probably not, but you can absolutely take Matt Carp off of the Cardinals hands. Lol
How about bringing in Jeff Samardzija (the Shark) … he is a FA
They already have “The Shark” as their pitching coach!
Boom – outtttaaaa here
Were you thinking of Cod?
Mike Carp is available
Tyler Pike is playing Indy ball, he should be available.
I mean come on is this really it Perry? You know he’s not that good and probably going to be hurt again this year right?
Yeah, this is concerning. His numbers are pretty bad. Only redeeming variables seem to be his 1-year contract, has a decent IP history and is battle-tested in the AL East. But not good.
Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day. Give the Angels a few fish and they will still finish 4th in the division.
JDGoat, couldn’t of said it better myself. Another long shot, that wont pan out. wish we had this guy 6 years ago in his prime
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/03/orioles-to-sign-alex-cobb.html
Link to Cobb signing thread from 2018.
Let’s talk about 2018. Collusion right. That’s why Arrieta and Cobb weeent signed feb 1 2018. Collusion was the talk. Now Cobb still has a year left but anyone who said collusion want to add up what Arrieta and Cobb produce stats wise these last 3 years? Do it before I start calling people out who mentioned collusion in 2018.
You make a good point about them being bad signings. But collusion is the act of attempting to obstruct a player or players’ market. Them being bad contracts may be why they didn’t sign right away, but there would still be collusion if owners or teams communicated with each other to that effect. Collusion and when and how much they actually signed for are mutually exclusive.
I don’t think that’s the point—It wasn’t collusion as much as 29 other teams correctly evaluated these pitchers and determined they weren’t the top choices for their rosters.
They should make people go back and read 5 of their comments before being allowed to comment. Guessing there will be a lot less people thinking they know something.
Well charge the heck out of Covid then because it collided the players market better than the owners could’ve dreamed.
PS: I dutifully read the comments as required to post in this section.
what in the hell are you blabbering on about ?
Please Do Iver !!!!!
Hey at least Harper and Machado got paid right….the collusion train wasnt all for Not !!!
Team has five #4 starters
This whole thread is off the hook
There are a few snags in the line.
Why can’t Perry pivot and got to the Reds with an offer for Sonny Gray? I’d offer Detmers (a projected #2 or 3 starter, and J Jones (expendible piece) for Gray and $2 mil/yr salary relief. That would get their attention. If you look at the offer from Reds perspective, you’re getting top Angels pitching prospect. From the Halos point of view, even first rounders are a long shot to be impact pitchers. Definitely a gamble for both teams. Calloway and Gray together might produce results and give the Halos the ace they need so desperately.
We thought Jeremiah Jones would be better spent on Alex Cobb
Maddon and Cobb back at it in L.A. of Anaheim, good deal.
This trade seems fishy to me
i won’t be watching this subpar .500 Angels team this season. why waste my time
what was the point of this trade, why ? and dont tell the Angels need starting pitching, ahhh really…????
could’ve traded a hand bagg for this LOP
Well, that’s a band-aid on a bullet wound deal but it’s a start I guess…
I know they’re headed in different directions, but LAA fared well with the last O’s SP (Bundy). We all know BAL pitching is the AAAA for the rest of the league. Kid’s getting called up to The Show!
No way- the Angels new pitching guru is remarkable and combine him w Calloway and the Orioles starter that Cobb is going to remind you of is Jake Arrieta. The Angels are going to turn him into a modern version of Dave Stewart and have found the ace they needed.
Well Calloway is gone
Wow. This is hilarious
@Allknowingone This comment didn’t age well. Unfortunately.
Typical. Better stack the bullpen if this is the rotation.
Yawn
Not gonna complain, but the back end of the Angels’ rotation is getting crowded. Need a #1, but that’s stating a need that’s been obvious for years.
Ya they’re clearly the best fit for Bauer, but maybe they got scared off by his antics.
@JDGoat-No hearing Bauer hates pitching coach Mickey Calloway from their Indian days
Good point.
I can only imagine the text exchanges between Bauer and Mickey….. lol
He won’t pitch for Callaway again.
Not that I honestly think they were in on him, I don’t believe the Angels have seriously been in on any big name starting pitcher expecting a multiple year contract for years. Arte hates investing in pitching and is the deciding factor on any and all transactions. But Bauer wasn’t going to sign here because of Mickey anyway
Honestly, can you blame Moreno?
How many of these long-term pitching contracts have worked out? For every Max Scherzer, there seem to be a dozen Jeff Samardzija’s.
Not to mention, in Moreno’s case especially, he got burned with C.J. Wilson, and then his other mega-contracts with Pujols and Hamilton went south as well. It’s why I was surprised so see them all-in with Rendon last year.
I can’t blame Moreno for being leery of big contracts for pitchers.
Usually the large deals for the star pitchers work out pretty good. Scherzer, Verlander, Greinke… saying that, Bauer definitely looks to be more like a Samardzija than those guys. It’s really hard to give out so much money based off of a couple good years.
I blame the Angels for not doing much about their bullpen.
He’s wasted 6 straight seasons of Trout and run the stadium empty while allowing the team to do nothing to seriously address the glarring pitching situation everyone in the world screams needs addressing
We watched the club go from the best record in the AL in 2014, to only 1 above 500 year (2015) and not a single pythWL over .500 since then …all while having the greatest player of this generation and a rather massive payroll
Yeah, I can blame him. He’s made the team into a punchline not a single non-diehard even cares about (and a lot of them gave up on the club since then as well)
I guess you haven’t figured it out yet about Trout? He doesn’t really care about winning so much, if he did he wouldn’t have signed his current deal with this organization. He’s just fine going home when the playoffs begin as long as those checks cash.
They offered Cole $300 million last year, they’ve been in on pitchers, just nine have signed with them.
i blame the Angels for not doing much about anything
There haven’t been many bad contracts for true aces that come to mind. I think where teams get burned on those deals is overpaying for a #3 type starter, then hoping that guy will be a TOR arm.
I do blame Moreno, for doing virtually nothing. If there’s a case to be made against long-term FA deals, then do something else…but do something!
New GM, same BS. This is getting ridiculous. I’m so frustrated as a fan of us dumpster diving for starting pitching year after year. Sack up and make a major move for frontline starters. Jesus. It’s like they enjoy .500 baseball.
@darkstar maybe we can use a less insulting analogy? This is sports, and a stupid topic. maybe we don’t need to make light of real-world terribleness? You keep using it.
None of this even makes sense. “Usually” large deals for star pitchers work out pretty good… You cite three generational talents. Huh? (Barry Zito, Kevin Brown, Mike Hampton, Johnny Cueto. Sale and Strasburg hardly look like sure things, each with many years and dollars remaining). And how does Bauer look to be more like Samardzija?
Also, the Angels signing Bauer would have them go over the luxury tax.
The contracts written for Verlander (Tigers) and Greinke (Dbacks) worked out so well those teams had to trade those pitchers for salary relief, because too much payroll was tied up in a guy who played every 5th day.
You said Alex Cobb was a great signing for the Orioles in 2018 DimitriInLa.
I don’t remember my exact words but yes I thought it was a good deal at the time. I stayed optimistic even heading into last season. I no longer consider it a good signing.
cjb1125
“@darkstar maybe we can use a less insulting analogy? This is sports, and a stupid topic. maybe we don’t need to make light of real-world terribleness? You keep using it”
What exactly are you even talking about?
You mean the accusations stuff that came out AFTER I had posted the lines saying Bauer wouldn’t pitch for Callaway again? Because that news, that again broke after I had made those comments, has nothing to do with nothing – Bauers hates Callaway from their Cleveland days together. He’s made that known. Was even articles written a week or so ago finally explaining what was known long ago.
Whoa! You think the guy who has reached the pinnacle of professional sports doesn’t care about winning? You have not been an athlete, or at least a competitive one, if you truly believe that money can buy his competitive ego. Fo’ realz
Why are you knocking CJ Wilson. He threw 722 innings was 51 and 35 with an era 3.81 . for the Halo’s, Angels don’t currently have anyone on the staff who could beat those numbers.
Wah! Wah! My team signed a pitcher who didn’t win the Cy Young award! Obviously they are incompetent!
My team hasn’t been in the post-season since 2014, and hasn’t won a postseason game since 2009 – despite having the best player of our generation. So yes – obviously they are incompetent!
Now they’re including top 10 prospects in these deals for garbage pitching. I’m at a loss for words with what they’re doing.
@iamdb,
Not according to Angels fans around here though. Nope, they look at the continued pathetic dumpster-diving for pitching, and the typical garbage it results in over and over again, and they say that show how great Arte actually is!
It’s pathetic. Like they live in a completely different world from everyone else.
I don’t think there’s one angel fan out there that’s happy with the direction of this franchise nor with the decisions Arte and the GMs have made over the past decade. This trade is everything about this franchise summed up. Truly pathetic and an absolute waste of Mike Trouts career.
angels going to angels.
did they learn nothing from Matt Harvey, Julio, Teheran, Tim Lincecum?
Don’t forget about Trevor Cahill, he didn’t workout well for them, either.
I don’t think the workout was the problem, but he did not work out.
Words have meaning.
I hardly see Alex Cobb being an answer to the Angels pitching woes.
Any time the Angels sign a serviceable pitcher, it’s a good move.
Who says Cobb is serviceable?
If I’m not mistaken, VonPurpleHayes just did.
He also said “sign”. Cobb would be a trade.
Apologies for semantics. Of course it would be a trade, and I think it’s a good one for the pitching-needy Angels. Cobb is indeed serviceable as a back-end rotation kind of guy. Giving up Jones makes sense too, as he’s not needed on the Angels roster any time soon. Fair trade IMO.
LOL if that’s what you have to believe to get you through your day. When is the last serviceable Starting pitcher the Angels have signed. Was it when the resigned Jared Weaver LOL
The Orioles and Angels must be best friends because this is the third trade they’ve made in the last two offseasons (Dylan Bundy, Jose Iglesias, and now Alex Cobb)
It’s just two terrible organizations trading terrible players back n forth.
Well they probably freed up enough money to keep Mancini for another year. Another Brave option off the board.
Was he really an option? No DH still and awful OF defense, not to mention coming back from missing a year off and significant prospect capital needed in return for a face of the franchise.
I don’t know if he was a viable option but who do you see as a viable option now. Just curious your opinion.
Honestly, same candidates as before, if not a few more from Arenado’s trade. Trade could trigger other minor selloffs (CHC: Bryant, etc.; COL: Story, Blackmon, etc.). FWIW (not much) Jon Heyman linked Nelson Cruz and ATL – for the first time that I can see – on 1/31. It says a lot that we still don’t have a LF/mid-order bat with Cruz, Ozuna, Duvall unsigned. Feels like AA is playing chicken with everyone including MLB/MLBPA agreeing for a DH in ’21. I need whatever vitamin AA takes for his patience.
Well that but better next time
Who else but the Angels?
No way Marsh goes back in deal.
OMG no.
Minasian would be immediately terminated with cause.
Cy Cobb
In before Halo11 and Vizionaire complain
I’m actually looking forward to their reactions lol
I can already hear Halo11 now “Perry the platypus has been underwhelming”
While throwing a Dart at a cutout pic of Claudio in his garage
Claudio is my hero. How he got a team to bite on a LOOGY who now has to face right-handers is one of the great miracles of this off-season.
Good for him. Bad for the Angels, but good for him.
Life is pain
Anyone who says different is selling something.
Anybody want a peanut?
Too late. 11 already complained about the already improved bullpen above.
JJ, who is the second most dependable man in the bullpen? Spending one minute researching that question should show you the issue.
Bullpens are volatile. I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in name recognition.
Doritos, they are volatile. That’s why it’s important to get a couple, three good ones and fodder the rest.
The Angels have one good one and everyone else is fodder.
Answer – Ty Buttery……. If you dont use him every day. Solid 8th inn guy
Well, Buttery hasn’t shown much at the MLB level.
Now the Angels are hoping and praying a guy who struck out 6.2 men per nine innings last year is going to be good.
Nothing wrong with depending on that kind of pitcher as your second best RP.
I will gladly take Buttery off your hands, he’s shown PLENTY when not overworked –
Ive wanted LAD to deal for him for the last 2 years ( *they’ve made good trade partners on paper for awhile aside the FO egos) and continually watch the Angels try to kill him every night sighing……….. Hes legit, yall just burn him out like a MOFO
In a way he benefits from all these inn eaters now – He should never pitch in a game trailing, I saw the Angels pitch him 4-5 times a week the last couple years when ahead, behind, and trailing……stop that shizzzzz please and you will love a rested 8th inn Buttery (if hes still healthy)
Cap,
There is a HUGE difference in saying a guy has potential to do things and handing him a huge job.
He hasn’t shown plenty, but he’s the kind of guy you can use in lower leverage situations until he does. Not the eighth.
And I’m not really sure what you mean by overwork. He’s pitched on three consecutive days three times in 2019. When he struggles and throws 20+ pitches, I can only see once where he pitched the next day and that was for a partial inning.
19- 72 games pitched in….and I bet he warmed up a bunch more in non apps
20- 27/60
19-
April- 14
May-12
June-12
July 13
Aug-11
Sept -10
20- He pitches in 46% of the games
Thats too much/too quick for a guy who had pitched 16 inns in the bigs before 2019
The usage in the Angels pen has never much made sense but its probably a lot a bi-product of 4.1 inn starts. Makes it tough
Relief pitcher throw 72 innings. Robles threw 71. 72 innings was 20th
If 72 innings blows him away, he can’t be a late inning relief pitcher. That’s work, but it’s not a lot of work. And he was 27, not 22.
Three outings were two innings. One outing was 2.2 innings.
I’m not a big fan of 1.2 innings. I’m ok with pitching to one batter in the 7th and finishing off the eighth.
However, Buttrey is not someone who you can depend on to pitch the 8th, You can hope he can pitch the 8th, but no team should depend on him pitching the 8th.
I like it. I can’t believe they got anything for him. I guess the Angels are hoping for a bundy 2.0 type situation. I think its best that they both part company and start over fresh. Angels please feel free to send multiple prospects! Ha Good luck Cobb.
Hearing they are sending bubba harkin the groundskeeper. Not gonna get much for Cobb especially for 15 million per season.
Another wasted year of Trout’s prime. The man deserves better.
Seriously….
Angels should just sign Bauer for $40M annually and just let him pitch as often as he wants.
Going into the season with a 6 man rotation of Bauer, Bundy, Bauer, Ohtani, Bauer, Cobb doesn’t look too bad!!
griffin canning is better than all of them
Dexter, You forgot Quintana.
We better not be giving up anything other than a bag of hair for this lump of crap. Where did we get this gm!
“This lump of crap”. Nice. Isn’t anonymity wonderful? I’m not thrilled about it either but won’t attack someone with disparaging insults. Wow.
So much for my”the Orioles will never be able to trade Cobb with that salary”. Thank you Angels
It’s actually the Blue Jays foisting Vernon Wells onto the Angels that made me realize that no amount of salary is ever too much to unload
They split the Bill
Would Angels do Adell for Bieber ???
Some other parts to the deal but those are the 2 main ingredients
Angels would 100% do that unless they find something troubling in Biebers mechanics or long term help. 5 years of ace pitching is worth more than any top prospect.
Sadly I think it would take more than just Adell to get him.
Far more than just Adell. Adell’s still a top prospect but he’s a corner outfielder. An ace like Bieber would empty the Halos farm. (If they even have enough, which I’m not sure is true)
*long term health (not help)
Yes PLEASE
LOLangels
Do the Angels have anything left? Obvi this is salary relief for the O’s, but they have to be getting something back if they are still paying part of the salary. I hope it’s not another 17 year old Dominican kid who won’t leave the island for another two years.
The Orioles are not getting anything interesting back unless they eat 80% of his salary. It’s going to be a couple 17 year old Dominicans if we’re lucky. I’m sure this is a straight salary dump.
A few lottery ticket type prospects are probably worth more to the Orioles at this point than Cobb would be this year, though.
I wouldn’t argue that. If the Orioles can shed a decent amount of salary—then that’s fine. We will need to get someone to replace him for innings though. Obviously you can find those guys for a lot less than this.
Nope, nope and nope. You are 3 for 3.
I’ll insert the obligatory “Why weren’t the Phils in on this?” I’d say if getting Cobb would push VV to the pen then I wish they would’ve traded for him, but not sure he’d be an upgrade over Vinny.
Yea, why weren’t the Phils on this?
I think I pushed for a “Cobb for Vinny-Phils split the salary difference w/ O’s” awhile back. If Cobb gives you six innings regularly without being down 5-0, Phils would be ahead .
In his 3 seasons in Baltimore, Cobb has a 5.10 ERA, 5.22 FIP and 86 ERA+. Hes also 33, missed the 2019 season, and is making 15 million
You dont need to question why any other team wasn’t in on this, its extremely obvious
Although as stated in the article, much of those bad numbers came from an early poor start due to the lack of spring training. He’s a pretty average innings eater in reality, and was healthy last year. Definitely not worth $15m, but maybe like $8m.
Then again, a team was dumb enough to give Drew Smyly 11m and another gave Kevin Gausman $18m, which I still can’t stop laughing about, so maybe I’m underestimating Cobb’s value.
The Blue Jays would have been in on this, but their FO and owner don’t care! First.
The Angels have pitching issues and their answer was to sign or acquire pitchers from the ORIOLES who have the biggest pitching problems.
Worked out well w Dylan Bundy…..
I’ll be interested to see just how much salary the Orioles shed w this because there definitely isn’t a decent prospect coming back.
Bundy fell off towards the end of the season. It will be interesting to see how he holds up for a full season. But if he is anywhere close to it, he still be the best pitcher on the Angels staff.
The Angels 7th prospect is a very good return even if you feel he is not “decent.”
Bundy trade worked out
The Angels have needed an ace for years. Why do they continue to try to fill that void with reclamation projects?
Somehow I don’t think this is what most Angels fans had in mind when they asked for more starting pitching.
Given Cobb’s injury history he should fit right in in Anaheim…
Hell, why not….fared well with Bundy
Clearly Arte’s idea of improving the rotation and BP is quantity over quality.
But can he pitch?
Halo dumpster diving again. They should be all over German Marquez and Kyle Freeland on the Rockies who are very available.
Yanks should be all over Story. Benefit from shifting Torres to 2B.
@RunDMC- the Yankees probably won’t trade for Story. Ist you gotta trade for him, then you gotta sign him later on. The Yankees want to stay under the luxury tax in 2021. Isn’t Story making $18 million a year? Yeah only way for them to get him is to sign him as a free agent next season.
Give them a good prospect for less. Look at the names they’re getting from STL for $50M. It’s go time. They know the house is burning down.
Umm, doesn’t their best player play 2B?
Yeah, I forgot about that at the proposal. I’m assuming he’d play 2B full-time with Urshela at 3B.
They should’ve signed Tanaka.
The question is who gets the Number One pick in the 2022 Draft: Baltimore or Pittsburgh? I see Colorado and Detroit as contenders for picks 3 and 4
The A’s got worse.
The Astros got worse.
The Mariners are an enigma.
The Rangers is in a rebuild.
But the Angels do this? Their competitive window is open.
The market for mediocre 5th starters is heating up! Hot Stove Baby!!!
A dollar and a dream.
Angels must think they can get Cobb to step up the way Bundy did. The only rational reason I can come up with. AL West “seems” to be the division nobody wants to take.
The astros won 100 games 3 years in a row. Then nearly made the world series after getting one start from verlander and 3 games from yordan alvarez. This division is ours whether u like it or not. We arent going anywhere buddy
yeah, still banging the trash can? or using buzzers? or what’s this time around?
I really don’t care about the weak AL West. Your Astros were a .500 team and you have not improved all that much. Congratulations on being the big fish in a shrinking pond but your run is done.
Guest,
The Angels sure let an opportunity slip through their fingers.
The nationals were 10 games under .500 in nearly 60 games when they won it all. You only want our run to be done.
All they needed to do this offseason was get Bauer and they’d contend. Bad GMing 101 as usual from this team.
They amount of “My team’s GM didn’t go for Trevor Bauer, thus he’s a bad GM” takes around here and social media are pretty funny.
There’s likely a pretty good reason that most teams have pivoted from Bauer and turned their attention elsewhere.
Regardless what you think of him, you don’t turn your attention from Bauer to Cobb – who is 33, missed the 2019 season, is making 15 million, and has produced to a 5.10 ERA, 5.22 FIP and 86 ERA+ in his 3 seasons in Baltimore
It ultimately depends on what they are giving up for him. Shelling out a couple fringe prospects and 15M for Alex Cobb is a heckuva lot better than shelling out 150M to Trevor Bauer.
The fact is, Trevor Bauer is like the cute girl in a small town. You think she’s a 10 because compared to everyone else available, she’s way hotter. But then, you go off to college in the bigger city, and you begin to realize that she’s not a 10, but compared to every other girl, she’s closer to a 5 or a 6.
A lot of teams aren’t fooled by Bauer. They know what he is, and they’d rather wait it out and find better options as opposed to dumping 100+ million dollars at his feet.
“I can’t afford the risk on the Jaguar, so I think I’ll go with this old busted up Pinto that will cost me only half as much for the year”
Again, regardless what you think of Bauer, Cobb is garbage
LOL at you thinking Trevor Bauer is a Jaguar.
He’s probably closer to a Pontiac Solstice… a cheaply made car that lets you pretend to be a rich dude.
The point here isn’t about Alex Cobb. It’s that people are so gung-ho about Trevor Bauer that they are thinking that any GM not signing him is missing out on Sandy Koufax.
Whoever signs Trevor Bauer will be massively disappointed by July.
Well, Jaguars really aren’t considered great cars these days. They are kind of expensive, but compared to other vehicles in that price range, their performance is really not that good.
No, the point is (for the third time) it doesn’t matter what you think about Bauers …it doesn’t change the fact Cobb is straight garbage
5.10 ERA, 5.22 FIP and 86 ERA+ in Baltimore last 3 years
Cobb is a guy you aquire for AAA depth, not your ML rotation
Might as well of brought back Cahill; would cost much less and he’s infinitely more likely to produce better
Cobb is not a good pitcher, Bauer is. Plain and simple, it’s another year of Trout’s prime wasted. This move does not make the Angels any better, just like pretty much every other move they’ve made for a SP in recent memory except for Bundy. Bauer probably makes the Angels a playoff team, considering they’ve needed an ace for years and have consistently failed to acquire one. Bauer is an ace, whether you like him or not his numbers speak for themselves.
Cobb is a #5 starter. I’m almost positive the Angels aren’t paying more than half his salary though. He’s a low-mid 4’s guy who gets the ball on the ground. Put him with a good pitching coach like Callaway and a strong defense and he’ll be fine. There’s no comp to Bauer. Those guys are in two different leagues. This is more of a Harvey/Cahill/Teheran level move. Those didn’t work out—this one might. The upside isn’t an ace, obviously.
Speculatively they may also being looking to pick up a reliever from Baltimore as well. I know ownership is motivated to shed salary. Too early to say but I understand this isn’t the big move angels fans would want.
darkstar, I know you REALLY want to bash Alex Cobb, but the original comment was about the Angels not signing Trevor Bauer, to which I responded about Bauer, to which you responded about Alex Cobb.
We’re talking about the Angels not signing Bauer, not about them trading for Alex Cobb.
And we’re talking about the mindset that teams that don’t sign Bauer are missing out on some HOF pitcher, when in reality, they are missing out on signing a guy who is probably closer to Jeff Samardzija than fans care to admit.
pinstripes, what numbers speak for themselves that suggest Bauer is an ace?
He’s one of the worst pitchers in the second half… and he benefitted more than almost anyone from a shortened season. His BABIP against was unsustainably low at .215, so he’ll regress.
And he’s had just 2 seasons of above average pitching. That’s it. What exactly makes you think he’s an ace?
From your first post:
“pivoted from Bauer and turned their attention elsewhere”
And the “elsewhere” in this instance is? Oh yeah, Cobb. Thats who the Angels turned their attention to instead!
And Cobb is garbage
So yes, this is about the difference between taking option A (signing Bauer) and the option B (trading for Cobb) that the Angels did instead when they turned their attention away from Bauer
Bauer isn’t perfect, obviously, but what the Angels turned to instead is straight pathetic
This isn’t a bad deal for either side depending on the money. Cobb could rebound with a change a scenery.
“could rebound with a change a scenery” — I’m sure the same thing was said about Matt Harvey, Trevor Cahill, Julio Teheran, etc…….
It doesn’t matter what pitcher they add. If Angels are not going to address their bullpen, they are going to lose a lot of games they should have won.
They have addressed the bullpen and probably will continue to do so. Added Raisel Iglesias and Alex Claudio to go with Buttrey/Mayers. Colome, Greene, Giles, Jeffress, Kela, Kintzler, Melancon, Osuna, Rosenthal, Soria, Tepera, Workman, Doolittle, Chafin, McGee, Watson, Wilson and tons of others are still on the market. And who knows, maybe they can bring back Paul Fry or Shawn Armstrong here. Still plenty of time to continue adding pieces
Yeah not so much. Their pen is fine. Iglesias was a great get.
The pen is fine? If you make these kinds of bets you’ll lose nine years out of ten. Hey, maybe this will be the year. They have lost that same bet for a decade, maybe they are due.
They are counting on Mayers being the pitcher he was last year and not the pitcher he has been. How’d that work out wen they depended on Robles?
They are depending on Buttrey being the pitcher he was in 2018 and not 2019 and 2020. Really, who would do that?
Claudio can’t get RH out and hasn’t been good for four season. You can’t use him to start an inning.
Oh my god, the pen is fine? The pen is filled with undependable dregs where the only pitcher who has a track record of successes is Iglasias. And he was terrible his last full season he pitched.
You do realize bullpens are the most volatile of any position? Even the elite pitchers can take a turn for the worse without warning … Look at Diaz when he got traded away from the Mariners. He was arguably the best reliever in for multiple years and then became one of the worst in his first year with the mets. Ottavino is another and look at the 2 guys the red sox traded to the phillies last year mid year. They were the only quality relievers on the red sox and became attrocious for the phillies.
Short of paying mid rotation money on a reliever (and even then there is not a sure thing) it is hard to get the quality relieve you are looking for. That or you bring someone up through the ranks.
If we signed 7 prime Mariano Rivera’s you’d say “he only has one good pitch.”
And that one pitch? Just happens to be the one Mayers mastered last year. Not saying he’s Rivera but there’s a solid explanation for his emergence.
Iglesias is the closest thing we’ve had to Rivera in over a decade according to everyone but you.
But the real problem is the low leverage reliever, right? Claudio is taking over for the esteemed Noe Ramirez and gives up home runs at half the rate as Noe, but the Angels are the only ones with a meh guy for low leverage situations.
Relievers are all failed starters. They’re moved to the bullpen because they lack a third pitch or have a bad split.
Teams and managers need to set them up for success. Sometimes that is implementing a new pitch (Mayers) or putting a ground ball specialist in front of a great infield defense (Claudio).
Most people understand this. Others scream at minor league deals.
Hyperbole much?
But we’ll stick with Mayers. He’s 29 and has a negative lifetime WAR. And you are basing that on 20 innings last year because he added a pitch?
You think he’s going to have a .6 HR per nine rate with a ground ball rate at 32%, worst on the Angels for anyone who pitched over 20 innings.
He fly ball pitcher, who has done it once, is your second most dependable RP, base on one new pitch, which if effective, will be scouted and neutralized.
That’s your second. It’s bad bet.
Claudio, who RH hit him at a 300+ clip, who hasn’t had an ERA below 4 dependable.
Maybe you need to spend two minutes researching.
Ha ha. Hysterics are predictable.
Of Claudio’s hits allowed, how many of them left the ballpark compared to Noe’s? You’re treating all hits as equal.
You bash others for using career stats, but you’ll use Mayers and completely disregard his new arsenal?
Look, I guess you enjoy being negative. Be you. But looking for one stat to confirm your bias isn’t research.
I have the ability to discuss pitch selection, results, exit velocity, etc.
You have the ability to act like the mom in The Waterboy.
GB/FB ratio spiked last year – not really sure why.
But if it’s real, it’s worth taking a flier on. Bottom line is how much are the Orioles kicking in?
Statistically, he was above average last year. On the spectrum, he was slightly better than Glasnow/Perez and slightly worse than Bubic/Dobnak.
You take fliers after you build from the top, not before.
You take fliers in the pen AFTER you get your 7th, 8th and 9th settled. You take fliers on the mound AFTER you set up you one and two pitches.
Taking a flier when there are so many needs means you don’t have the roster available to fill those needs.
The first big mistake this off-season was not contacting the Reds during their salary dump to get Bradley. The second was Clauido. The third was Quintana.
Are people seeing this yet? If not… why?
He increased the use of his splitter last year. That’s the reason. League now has 10 tapes of patterns to make adjustments. Is that success going to carry forward is the question.
Dumb and so predictable. He’ll be tolerable as a back-end starter type, and they’ll waste another year of the best player of his generation hovering around 500 and hoping someone goes on a skid so they can slip into the playoffs, which probably won’t happen. Come on people. Take a friggin’ risk. Cash in one of your uber-prospect outfielders and grab one of the Reds or Rockies starters. It’s time. It’s way past time actually.
With the pitching moves the Angels have been making, they must really be counting on Adell, Ohtani, Upton, et al, to have very good offensive seasons.
The starters they have don’t look terrible, but they are going to need strong run support (from more than just Trout and Rendon) if they hope to win more games than they lose.
Cobb’s only 34, in a contract year, and probably wants one more deal before he walks away. So the motivation is there.
He’s a good #3, strong #4-5. Worth the shot. Maybe the Angels, who have a TON of money, might want the O’s to kick in a #11-15 prospect in a getting-to-be-rich O’s system, and just eat the contract.
Angels fans are seriously the most battered wives in baseball history
3 year run of 5.10 ERA, 5.22 FIP and 86 ERA+ with a long injury history really equals a “very good #3” in your mind does it?
Already have Dillon Peters on the roster, why not save the cash and just let him put up those types of numbers for us?
Cobb made 3 horrendous starts in 2019 that skew that number towards your narrative. XFIP has been a better estimator for Cobb over his entire career and that puts his last 2 full seasons. (2018 and 2020) at 4.47 and 4.21.
While pitching behind some less than stellar infield defense in Baltimore for the most part. He’s a useful backend starter. Depends on the cash and/or other piece coming back.
Can you stop with the :battered wife” comments? It’s not funny to mock victims of domestic abuse. Yet you keep repeating your self. Grow up.
After about 5 years of watching Angels fans somehow talking themselves into swooning over every straight pathetic pitching addition the team forces down their throats? Even though they always tank, as expected, time after time? Well, if shoe fits…
And the shoe definitely fits here. Not a single other teams fans would be doing anything but trashing a Cobb addition, even if he was handed to them for free and no salary cost. Yet here? Nope, we of course have Angels doing their typical spinning trying to talk themselves into believing how this is actually a great thing and shows how much Arte really loves them. Its pathetic
Btw, I love how “keep repeating” is the whole …once(?) I said it? I mean, sorry to trigger you so badly off 1 single accurate observation, but seriously how does that become “keep repeating” of anything in your world? Its rather typical of an Angels fan around here, but still…
Other than getting the Iglesiases, this move isn’t any different than any other pitching move they have made this off season.
They added four pitchers based more on hope and price than ability.
I had such high hopes this off-season. It started off great.
Only 34 lol
A good #3? Yeah, in a triple A rotation maybe. In no world is Alex Cobb a good #3 in a major league rotation.
I don’t see how Cobb moves the needle for the Angels. They keep getting all these back end starters instead of a front line one.
If I was the pirates I would take Chris Davis in a trade taking on the whole salary with a prospect and seeing if he can rebound before the deadline and flop him again
Did you suffer a brain injury in the past?
If any team can get Chris Davis to flop even more it might be the Pirates.
Better late than never! Good move by the O’s.. Tigers should’ve seriously looked into a move like this when Jordan Zimmerman was on the books. Same with Miggy… hindsight is always 20/20, but you don’t always have to go down with the ship!
Low risk/low reward, but…
Everyone rightfully craps on the NL Central for being an awful division (St. Louis may be the only team that finishes above .500)… but the AL West is a bit of a dog’s breakfast, too. Texas and Seattle will be bad, and the Athletics and Astros are worse today than at the end of 2020 – Oakland lost a lot of good players to free agency and Houston basically has Zack Greinke to eat up innings (with Verlander out for the year).
I agree the Angels need more than these little moves, but it seems like they may not need to blow their brains out this year to stay in the hunt, especially with much better starting pitching options available in free agency next year.
enteluj88 Are we talking about 2021? If so, yes, this is weak division and the Angels had a chance to do something…. they haven’t done much.
IMO, LAA still needs more than an Ace to take control of the west. They’re close (and obviously it would put them closer as an organization), but I think they need more than that.
Perry, this is not the starting pitcher you’re looking for.
Move along…
what’s the upside with career era+ of 104 at $15 mil? this is nothing but a salary dump for o’s. if the angels trade any of top 10 prospects, it’s a dumb move.
Blows my mind that they wouldnt go after Tanaka but continue to go dumpster diving for average pitchers. Tanaka would have been a great mentor for Ohtani. Especially considering how cheap he was at 7 mil.
No kidding. Imagine how much better Tanaka would have pitched outside of the AL East parks?
I can only guess that Tanaka was “Yankees or Japan”, nothing else.
this is NOT legit. I’d much rather have any one of the other guys like paxton, odorozzi
This is such an Anaheim move…they really can’t get out of their own way! Even if Baltimore pays 50% of his salary, there are so many options left in free agency who would be a much better addition than Cobb will be. He’s going to be this year’s Tehran for Anaheim. Why ever consider this, Perry? There must be something in the water in Anaheim that causes smart people to make bad decisions.
I think he’s outthinking himself. Saw something deep in Cobb’s peripherals from 2020 that he’s managed to convince himself is REALLY IMPORTANT AND HE’S THE ONLY ONE SMART ENOUGH TO SEE IT. When in reality it’s just that no one else wants Cobb and so he doesn’t have to spend much talent to get him.
You’re a saint
“There must be something in the water in Anaheim that causes smart people to make bad decisions.”
The constant here is the owner. He forces big PR moves on his GM’s and then won’t spend to balance things out. His net worth has skyrocketed and the team hasn’t won a playoff game since 2009.
Cobb is no Georgia peach.
Back out now while there’s still time!
Is this all you have Angels? If this is the final piece to the starting rotation this team is going nowhere. Just another throw away season again. I won’t be watching these games or going to any of this is all they can muster. They’ll have over 70 million coming off the books next year and they can’t go over a few million this season by adding an actual quality SP. I’d much rather have Bauer than this reclamation project.
Its funny that hardly any of the responses have been from BAL fans…
…oh, right.
Do find sarcasm to be effective?
When I think of sarcasm I think of a little sanctimonious brat whose seeking out friends- to laugh at the expense of others, in the least subtle but most grandstanding way possible. Someone with extremely low self efficacy.
Whenever I’m sarcastic.. I usually feel almost conniving. I actually really hate it
Still upset about that hernia operation, eh, Bob?
Hello, BAL fan here,
We’re basically just stunned that anyone took Cobb from us, just like we were amazed that someone gave up a living breathing baseball player for Bundy (although he ended up doing well in the short season, he always has been streaky though so enjoy that).
He’s basically just Julio Teheran again, so make of that what you will.
DD make it happen!
Not sure what pitchers Angels fans are hoping for with their very not good farm system
The farm system isn’t bad at all. Especially if you still count Adell.
What are you gonna do trade Adell? The Angels system is thin on depth. They’ve made a lot of small trades that have thinned that depth out. There’s interesting guys towards the top—but less so once you get past that. Not a great spot for a team w clear holes.
My thought all off season was that the Angels would sign a solid Free Agent SP and trade for a Marquez, Freeland or Castillo type.
My expectations have changed in light of the Quintana and Cobb trades, but the Angels can still have a great off season by signing a 8th/9th inning guy in Rosenthal and acquiring a SP1/2.
Please no more SP4/5+ innings eaters.
They already traded for Raisel Iglesias for the 9th inning. Doubt they will overpay for Rosenthal
Rsox, I doubt it as well, but a dependable reliever is needed.
Everyone other than Iglesias is simply a hope and a prayer.
Rsox, it doesn’t have to be Rosenthal, but the Angels need someone at the backend to pair with Iglesias for the 8th and 9th. That pushes other BP pieces into lower leverage situations.
Having said that, it may be premature, but at some point Rosenthal’s asking price may come down a little. But again, it doesn’t have to be Rosenthal per se. Just a backend BP piece
How about Yusmeiro Petit. The pickings are getting slim.
Don’t know why the Angels fired Eppler when you’re going to get the same results as the past 5 years.
This would be a typical Artie Moreno move. Another 99 cent pitcher to go with the other garbage starters the Angels have. Maybe they should Call Nolan Ryan or Jered Weaver maybe they can still pitch a few innings.
Jokes on you dodger jr, because I would be SUPER excited to watch the express pitch again! lol
Nolan probably still throws 98, it’s just for 6 innings now instead of 15.
If the Angels take on $15M/yr for Alex Cobb, it better be no more than a Snickers bar going back. Okay, king size.
None of us are on those calls, if this is where the Angels are at, the asking prices for even guys like Kyle Hendrickson must be ridiculous.
Clean it up Perry, for fccks sake. We’re tired of mediocrity.
Making that flaccid announcement right after St. Louis makes a blockbuster trade for Arenado is pretty poor timing.
Only 10M of Cobb’s money is due this year; the rest is deferred. That goes along with another 15M deferred money already accrued.
I’m sure the O’s will have to eat all those deferrals, including this year’s.
As for Cobb in Philly, ya, why not; DD’s certainly seen Cobb enough. For cheap, I’d take him.
In a vacuum Cobb is not the problem. It’s just another hope and pray move by the Angels.
The Angels have very little track record of those moves working out and in order for the Angels to compete this year, the Angels need three to five of those moves working out.
They seldom get one of those moves to work out let alone three to five.
Typical. Not going to win until they get a true elite starter. Not more band aids.
The Angels problem is that they gave 245 million dollars to a 3B when they really needed a SP. Add that to Trout’s deal and you’re eating up 40% of your payroll for the next 6 years. I understand the hesitation to give out another mega deal. It’s just a clunky roster that lacks the necessary depth AND a frontline SP. if you add Bauer—you probably can’t afford Bundy after next year. I don’t know what you do with that team. Signing Bauer makes some sense but I can see why you don’t in their position. .
Cause if you don’t want to go over the luxury tax for the next few seasons—I don’t see a way you can put together a complete team.
Jbig, the Angels needed a 3rd baseman and someone who could hit behind Trout.
Rendon is not the problem.
245 million dollars is the problem. A lot of teams need a 3B but you’re now allocating 30+ MM to that position for the next half decade. While already operating a team that has multiple mega deals on it.
The Angels main problem is that they don’t develop any pitching. The cost savings you can get from developing arms gives you the luxury to sign a guy like Rendon. But when you can’t—them you have to buy pitching. And there’s only so many dollars to spend.
It’s not a problem. As far as the Angels not developing pitchers, who exactly does? A lot of teams have that problem.
The problem with the Angels is you can take fliers in the rotation if you have a strong top of the rotation… they don’t.
The problem with the Angels is you can take fliers on the rotation if you have a strong bullpen… they don’t.
The problem with the Angels is they take fliers on both the rotation and bullpen and hope this year is the year things work out.
It’s a bad way to run a team.
They will have 70 mill coming off the books after this season. There’s plenty of room to go over this year and sign some solid players next offseason while still being under the luxury tax in 2022.
Angels trade Jones for Cobb??? What an incompetent franchise.
Jones was falling down the prospect list and not an Angel top ten prospect.
From fangraphs
Jones had the worst offensive season of his career in 2019 and arrived in the Arizona Fall League having made yet another swing change. He ran an unusually low BABIP last year, his underlying TrackMan data was still favorable (39% of balls in play hit 95 mph or above), and he was a college-aged player who spent all of last year at Double-A. I’m still betting on Jones’ makeup and athleticism, and think he’ll find a way to be a 1.5 to 2 WAR role player who sees time at second base and in left field.
Jones isn’t a real top prospect. Again, this is a poor Angels system. That has to be recognized. I’ve seen some people fight it but that’s reality. This is a great return for Alex Cobb. But Jam Jones is a 40+ prospect. He’s quick but not really efficient at swiping bags and he’s not much defensively. Has the makings of a decent bench piece, IMO. But he’s young and has some upside so that’s obviously a W for cobb.
JB, it’s a good return for Cobb. I’m surprised the Orioles got that much, but Jones is not much of a prospect and is not an Angel top ten prospect.
I think he’s rated 7 or 8 by MLB
Indeed JD – He was #7 on the Angels board by MLB.com list they just put out 2 weeks ago
https://www.mlb.com/prospects/angels
3rd by Fangraphs…
Beef, 11th by fangraphs. I’m not sure what you are looking at.
It’s 2021 now fellas….. You’re referencing a 2020 site put together by MLB.com. Which outside of their top 100 list is an inferior source to fangraphs, IMO.
Jones was 11th on FG’s list. Which isn’t all that interesting bc the Angels farm is weak. He’s rated as a 40+ prospect on there. I encourage you to look at the skills ratings FG lays out for you because they’re a lot more informative than simply looking at what number the guy fell in a certain system.
mlb.com is the worse but that 2020, not 2021. Adell is not there because of the rules last year.
Anyway, he’s borderline top ten. He’s not worthless.
Baseball America article said Jones hit very well in 2019 in AA after he ditched suggested swing changes and went back to his original swing. Over .300 in the 2nd half and a .885 OPS in the AFL.
Beef, he’s not a good prospect but he is a prospect with a chance.
Those were the fresh rankings posted 2 weeks ago (1/17) but I agree FG is better.
MLB.com isnt the worst by any means….
I stopped going to FG all together upon Megs arrival/makeover on principle ; but yes, you are getting a more informative analysis on the dry goods over there still
Cap, Adell isn’t there, which means it has been updated.
He’s a borderline top ten prospect, The Angels gave away Wilson and ended up saving around 5 million bucks.
The Orioles got back more than I would thought they would.
Because of Jam Jones? Lol he’s not very good. Was somewhat highly regarded early, but hasn’t hit at all in the minors and had to switch positions. He was never going to make an impact on the roster
The Angels are insane. Why not just sign a bad pitcher for whatever they’re gonna end up paying and save Jones?
At least the Rangers didn’t have to give up anything when they signed Jordan Lyles for 8 mil AAV lol…. LOLANGELS
Jones for this guy?!?!?! Wtf Angels?
Or should I say wtf perry?!
LOLANGELS!
Angels are now the Orioles of the AL West! Really Alex Cobb is the answer? And giving up J Jones for him?
Jones didn’t hit in 2018 or 2019. A prospect has to do better than .717 and .631 OPS respectively in High A to AAA. Not a big loss for the Angels but don’t agree it was a necessary move for them to acquire Cobb. Nice little move for the O’s.
Not wholly true: Jones hit very well in 2019 in AA after he ditched suggested swing changes and went back to his original swing. Over .300 in the 2nd half and a .885 OPS in the AFL.
Numbers say otherwise. He’s about to be 24 and he’s still not major league caliber.
Solid move to add a veteran starter to the rotation mix. Everybody is going to need more than 5 starters to eat innings. The Angels still can make a move for an arm that is more of a top of the rotation type guy during the season at some point ahead of the trade deadline. It is a better way to find pitching than the free agent market anyway. Somebody is ultimately going to regret adding Trevor Bauer if the AAV is anything north of $27 million. Had Bauer pitched in any division other than the weak hitting NL Central, he would not have the Cy Young hardware.
Still need a Colome or Rosenthal in the bullpen. Maybe even a Greene, Melancon, or Watson.
Also still need a Paxton, Walker, or Odorizzi…
I haven’t been confident with this teams rotation in years, but I’m not confident in Ohtani whatsoever. They need to treat the pitching staff as if he’s not going to throw a single pitch.
Andrews, they don’t have the roster openings to add players.
Halo11, there’s plenty of room on the roster for upgrades which Rosenthal, Odorizzi, etc would be. The key is that the new acquisition needs to be an “upgrade”, not the 4th SP5.
Do the bullpen shuffle. The Angels will have 8 BP guys, who is out? Who are they going to release, Who is going to AAA?
Another side quest. Let’s say 67% is “expected good” threshold. Which Angel pitcher other than Iglesias do you expect to be good.
Mayers with his 33% Ground Ball Rate?
Buttrey with under 7 strike out per nine rate?
Claudio who can’t get RH batter out?
Heaney who has never had an ERA below 4.15?
Who on this staff are you expecting to be good?
why add a few duds only to add odorizzi? they won’t. after this trade is finalized they will have 2 spots on 40 men and around $14 mil before hitting tax threshold.
Adding another pitcher will put Quintana or Cobb in the bullpen. However, looking the Angels, they can they add another RP. They’ll lose Peters and Rivera, but they can add someone like Rosenthal.
Right now the bottom three wrungs are Guerro and Claudio and (Rivera/Peters)
Iglesias
Mayers
Buttrey
Pena
Barria
Claudio
Guerro
Halo11, I agree the BP needs some work. That’s why I recommend signing a 8/9th inning RP like a Rosenthal to pair with Iglesias for late in the game. That pushes Buttrey, Mayers and Pena down to lower leverage spots making everyone better.
I would take my chances with a BP that started with Iglesias, Rosenthal, Buttrey, Mayers and Pena. Beyond that, I don’t care who gets released or sent to AAA. A Rosenthal type RP would be an upgrade over that person.
Angels &NL, there is a little room. They lose their number 12 prospect (Rivera) and Peters, but there is a little room.
Give me two guys I expect to be good, and everything changes.
Which goes back to my beef about signing Claudio. Is he really more valuable than Rivera? What’s the point?
Halo11, on one hand it sounds like your saying the Angels BP is bad. On the other hand, it sounds like your saying, the Angels can’t release anyone or send someone to AAA. If the BP is weak, surely there are candidates for release or AAA.
Good move for the O’s
Predictable move for LAA. Trade a useful young player that can play multiple positions, for an aging pitcher that struggles to get outs. LAA’s BP is below average and now they’re expected to get 12-15 outs a night. I understand they traded for a closer, but that only matters if the game gets to him with a lead. Lots of 7-5 losses in 2021.
Same old story since they can’t develop their own pitching.
This sucks. I’ve interviewed Jones at every stop up the ladder. He’s a tremendous guy. The type of guy who stands past third base and high fives every kid on “kids run the bases” day. The kind of guy who you want as your kid’s favorite player.
It was hard to see a path to a lot of playing time for him here so I’m happy for him. But I’ll miss having him in the organization, saying hi at spring training, texting about stuff.
This makes me happy to hear as an Orioles fan, would love to have another guy with that sort of character. He easily has playing time, with only Yolmer Sanchez, Freddy Galvis, and Pat Valaika to compete with.
I’ll continue to root for him, no doubt.
And he really did stand past third every Sunday afternoon in A ball and high five every kid that rounded the bases. He didn’t tell me, either. I found out years later when doing a story on Burlington getting contracted and their GM told me.
Lets say this is it. Angels Carry 14 pitchers.
Starters
Bundy
Heaney
Canning
Ohtani
Quintana
Wood
RP.
Iglesias
Mayers
Bundy
Buttrey
Pena
Barria
Claudio
Guerro
Peters ( Out of Options – gone )
Rivera( Rule 5 – gone ))
Sandoval starts in AAA.
A lot of hope and pray in both the pen and the rotation. That’s no way to build a pitching staff.
It’s Cobb not Wood.
Sorry, I have Alex on the brain. Thanks.
Barria is out of options as well, I think. So will he go to the BP or will it be Quintana or Cobb?
I’m sure Barria will take up a bullpen spot.
I listed Bundy as a BP guy. Which means the Angels have one more spot. They’ll have to cut their Rivera or Guerra and Peters, but they do have one BP spot left.
They need to fill that spot.
Tough read with all those errors. Better luck in the future.
There you go, all of the Angels’ problems are now solved
The Jays should offer up Roark. They may bite.
Okay, if the Angels get Cobb around $7M (net), then this is looking better.
Jones is a decent player, but that latest article clip from 12:42pm is giving him a lot of credit that I’m not sure he warrants. A lot of Angel fans would wish him the best, but he wasn’t going anywhere in this organization given what he’s produced in the minors and the current Angels infield.
Yea I’m seeing a lot of people treat Jones like some major prospect.. His bat has stalled pretty hard and he hasn’t played above AA. He doesn’t have a clear path to playing time in the Angels org either.. He did produce in his two fall league stints but thats super small sample size stuff.
Jones raked in the AFL then stumbled during the regular season in back to back years. The Angels also changed his swing 4 times and his position.
He’s definitely behind Rengifo on the depth chart, Barreto has no options, so Jones is clearly the odd man out.
He might improve if given the chance to just play his game, though.
Arranging deck chairs on the Titanic if the Angels don’t get more and better pitching.
Interesting. Other than the ability to semi-reliably eat lots of innings (if you accept 2019 as an outlier), I’m not sure what they’re seeing in this. OTOH, the last two seasons saw a generally good Angels bullpen go almost completely rotten through overuse and abuse — not because they stink, but because the rotation did. It all starts with having healthy, league average-ish starters who can keep you in games and give you a good 5-6 innings once a week. The bar is low, as the offense will score plenty of runs. So if you get the innings, then everyone gets just a little bit better. So I guess I can kinda see it — but only if the O’s eat a big chunk of that $15M.
That said, adding the likes of a Taijuan Walker or Jake Odorizzi would make this deal look a whole lot better. Then you have the innings AND someone who can keep us in games vs the better arms in the league. Forget Bauer, aka the best of a bad offseason for “aces.” The overpay for him will likely prove even worse than it will for Cole last year — and Bauer ain’t Cole.
This may also be telling of what the org sees in the health status of Ohtani. Let’s not forget that when healthy, he certainly has the stuff to be a potential ace. Not enough track record to even judge that, but I expect the FO may know something we don’t.
[OTOH, the last two seasons saw a generally good Angels bullpen go almost completely rotten through overuse and abuse — not because they stink, but because the rotation did.]
^ This. I can’t say I’m excited about Cobb, but seeing above, I understand the logic. But serious rally caps being waved that Cobb is more Bundy than Harvey or Cahill.
Yeah, hard to get too excited about a Cobb deal. But let’s be honest. The Halos need innings. Serviceable, league average innings. Over his career, Cobb has been a fairly safe bet for that. As for Jones, I’m gobsmacked at all the angst over giving up this “prospect.” On any club with a halfway decent farm system, this guy would barely register. Potential? Yeah, sure. But the ceiling is still looking pretty low, and we’re dealing from pure depth there.
There had better be another move or two to bolster the 1/2 and the pen. But on its own, I don’t hate this deal from either club’s perspective.
Jones can ball… nice pickup for the O’s
He can ball? Lol this is Jam Jones, not Chipper Jones
Lord, always that one guy with a ridiculous comment. O’s are in rebuild and got a solid prospect (kid can ball) for what’s honestly a rough starting pitcher. No need to even comment man..
Are you calling your own comment ridiculous? If by ball you mean he is signed by a baseball team, then sure he can ball. Never played a game in aaa, struggled in AA. If he turned into anything more than a backup utility type player, then he’s exceeded expectations. Since he’s from GA, I’m starting to think you like him so much because you’re related or something.
Jones will be a good pickup. stock is indeed down but he’s still under the radar imo.
all these 1 year deals? arte will spend $30 mil per on a shortstop! and still no pitching!
bull pen is so volatile? so sign bunch of duds and hope they suddenly turn into closers? yeah, right!
Viz… Exactly.
It hasn’t worked for years but this is they year it’s going to work. I think they’ll find a couple three guys in there to work out. The problem with that is it will takes weeks to find out which three pitchers they can depend on and by then they’ll have thrown away a number of games.
Also, there is a very good chance they will cut better pitchers than the pitchers they will keep.
lolangels
I’m trying to figure out how this improves the Angels. Even assuming Ohtani doesn’t pitch, they have at least five guys that are as good or better. Maybe, if they had a good top-3, and required depth and innings.
I assume this knocks Barria (?) out of the rotation, but how much of an improvement is that?
Heaney becomes a wipe out multi-inning reliever and the Angels are miraculously saved!
JBig, I had such high hopes for this off-season.
When they cleaned house on the bullpen, I was ecstatic. I thought to myself, finally a GM that gets it. And then he just replaced the dregs he released to save a few bucks.
Orioles pay 8 mil for Jones and loose a pretty good pitcher. What an absolute terrible trade !
The worst teams in baseball have collectively been making very bad moves for the quality of the sport
If they had held on to Cobb they would have paid him 15 million. And much if not all of the 8 million is probably deferred anyway. The contract Cobb signed in 2018 paid him 20 million in deferred money from 2022-2025. So he was going to get paid not to be on the team anyway. So they save 7 million and get a middle infielder who’s only 23 and the Angels 7th best prospect
Oriole fans April 1,2018-January 31,2021- “Why did the Orioles sign Alex Cobb? He’s terrible”.
Orioles fans February 2,2021-“How can you trade Alex Cobb? He’s going to win the Cy Young”.
Actually, Orioles fans are happy with the trade. No real Orioles fan is thinking, “How can you trade Cobb.” bot is not an Orioles fan. Dude doesn’t even know how to spell “lose.”
Also, Orioles fans were happy when the Cobb signing was announced in 2018.
Only $5 MM of the $15 is deferred, so obviously it can’t be that “all of the 8 million is probably deferred”
Poor grammar on my part. Meant to say most, if not all of the DEFERRED money would be picked up by the Orioles. According to Dan Connolly of the Athletic, some of the actually 4.75 million will be picked up by the Angels. But even if the Angels pick up 25% , that would mean the Orioles would be paying around 3.5 deferred, 4.5 actual salary this year. So the Orioles will save money. From an Oriole perspective, I like the trade. Reading some of the comments, Angel fans not so much. Look at the bright side Angel fans, at least you’re not shoveling snow today with more on the way
A pretty good pitcher? Pass what you’re smoking over this way..
5.22 FIP with the Orioles and a 5.22 ERA. That’s just awful
When bottom feeding teams spend millions on dollars to acquire players that’ll never impact their team then it’s terrible for the sport. 150 innings of 4.5 era baseball in 21 from Cobb will be more productive than Jones whole career.
I use to pull for the O’s. They had like 5/6 top picks and could never do anything. Then hired that crazy manager buck showalter and he did more for winning games in Baltimore then any one else since the 90s. Today they are the worst team in AL and it’s not even close. No clue how people stay loyal to terribly ran teams?! Especially the O’s. No reason to ever tune again unless playoffs are expanded
New GM and same retread strategy.
When will Arte take ownership ( his mistakes) of pushing through poor FA signings and eat Albert’s salary by authorizing a one year payroll over the salary tax. Arte is the reason the team payroll has handcuffed GM’s from making intelligent baseball transactions.
as if gm’s, over the years, had intelligence!
Why would anyone trade for Alex Cobb? Mercy
I’ve been down this road so many times with this team. They need a Bauer or an Odorizzi or even a Paxton and they get a Cobb.
A Cobb.
Every. Year.
I hear you. But Bauer has been smoking serious chooch if he thinks he’s getting $36M/yr. I like Odorizzi and still think he can fit into the fold considering they’re about $18M under the cap (with this sign).
I don’t mind Cobb if Odorizzi or a quality RP follows behind this.
I’d prefer Odorizzi as well. My hope was for Odorizzi and a quality BP arm. But I hope for something like that every year and we always plug the holes at the last minute with an Alex Cobb.
If we were to still sign a #2 or #3, that would be great. But we won’t.
Agree. Depth is needed but without a top of rotation arm Angels will not do anything in playoffs nor make playoffs this year. They should go all in and trade for Sonny Grey. Perfect fit for top rotation, pair with Bundy, Quintana, Canning, Barria, Cobb, occassional starts by Ohtani and thats good. I think Angels need to trade away Heaney. Hes been under a 4 ERA once yet team keeps thinking he is a #2 or 3 which he isnt. That would give Barria more starts who has flashed in limited action.
Year in and year out the Angels need pitching and they either go out and sign a slugger to a massive deal or acquire more ham n egger starters that will get torched
Mike Trout likely saw this on his phone and rolled his eyes and said WTF??
I hate to see Cobb go because of him being a veteran which he could teach some of the younger arms that are coming up this year. However it seems they are getting a very decent prospect in return. Jones is a natural 2B so he might turn into the Orioles next starting 2B. Orioles won this trade.
A team could have the best player, a really good third baseman, a proven manager, but if it doesn’t respect the need for really good to great pitching, there is something seriously wrong.
The manager changed, the GM changed, but the owner did not. CJ Wilson was not so horrific that the owner should recoil at the sight of an expensive pitcher. The Hamilton and Wells deals were so much worse than Wilson’s.
C’mon, Tanaka was there for the taking. Ownership is obviously the problem. It is better to have two great starting pitchers than one expensive slugger. This is Baseball 101.
Here’s something Moreno should understand. By his own choice, he shares the same market as three teams which go for the gold, for better or worse, the Dodgers, Lakers and Rams. With new ownership, the Clippers learned this. Even the Kings and Ducks don’t treat their fans like this.
The Angels and Chargers are the clowns in this market, and bad ownership is what the Chargers and Angels have in common. I am done with spending any money on the Angels until the owner lets a relative run it or else sells it. I am tired, really tired, of Arte Moreno’s stewardship of the Angels.
Buh-bye! Shut the door on your way out. 😉
i don’t know whether the team was stupid enough not to have provisions against racing cars but wilson was injured racing. while on d/l he managed his racing team and negotiated a purchace of a nissan dealership.
The problem with their pitching isn’t the free agents, it’s the lack of quality young arms in the system. Weaver was the last quality SP that was drafted, developed, and succeeded at the MlLB level.
Free agents SP are a crapshoot. They’re terribly expensive and are always an injury risk.
Either that. Or angels are still in on Bauer and trying to drive down the price w false media stories. That makes a lot of sense! Mets and Angels both have cap issues signing Bauer.
An off-season that includes Bauer and Cobb would be fine. But just Cobb?…….. Oh Arte, what are you doing?
What is Arte doing, you ask? Just doing what he always does, of course…
It makes me wonder. Happ had the better ERA last year, the past two years, and the past three years. What makes LAA think that Cobb suddenly gets better than Happ?
Looks like Callaway is gone, time to sign Bauer as a knee jerk reaction.
I’m Not a big Cobb fan, but if he can pitch slightly better than last years 4.30 in the small park A.L. east, that’ll work. Just as long as they get 1 more solid RP. (Rosenthal, Colome, Petit)
I don’t see much upside in Cobb whatever the financial are. I’d rather put it towards the Melancons of the world and maybe fill out the rotation with a Samardzija or Gonzales for depth.
My still to-do list:
1. Fire Mickey Callaway. What a deadbeat.
2. Pay the luxury tax this season.
3. Trade Jo Adell, Andrew Heaney, Jordan Adams, Chris Rodriguez, and D’Shawn Knowles to the Indians for Shane Bieber.
4. Pull out of the Alex Cobb trade. It’s not complete as far as I know.
5. Ask Mark Gubicza if he would like to be a pitching coach.
6. Sign Yadier Molina.
7. Sign Trevor Rosenthal.
8. Sign Yusmeiro Petit.
9. Sign Alex Colome.
10. With Victor Rojas departing, start over the commentators for Angel games.
11. Stick Max Stassi on the bench when he is healthy to come back and shuffle one of your bench folks down.
12. Goodbye, Dillon Peters and Luke Bard.
C: Yadier Molina
1: Albert Pujols
2: David Fletcher
3: Anthony Rendon
SS: Jose Iglesias
LF: Justin Upton
CF: Mike Trout
RF: Brandon Marsh, Jared Walsh, Taylor Ward (Whoever wins the job in spring).
DH: Shohei Ohtani
B1: Kurt Suzuki
B2: Luis Rengifo
B3: Matt Thaiss
B4: Brandon Marsh, Jared Walsh, Taylor Ward
B5: Brandon Marsh, Jared Walsh, Taylor Ward
SP1: Shane Bieber
SP2: Dylan Bundy
SP3: Jose Quintana
SP4: Griffin Canning
SP5: Jamie Barria
SP6 / BP1: Shohei Ohtani
BP2: Ty Buttrey / Mike Mayers / Felix Pena / Jose Rivera / Junior Guerra (Whoever performs best in Spring Training wins a spot in the bullpen. Others get released, waivers, back to minors.)
BP3: Alex Claudio
BP4: Trevor Rosenthal
BP5: Yusmeiro Petit
Set-up: Alex Colome
Closer: Raisel Iglesias
Batting Order:
1. David Fletcher
2. Jose Iglesias
3. Mike Trout
4. Anthony Rendon
5. Shohei Ohtani
6. Justin Upton
7. Albert Pujols
8. Yadier Molina
9. Brandon Marsh
The Angels have to keep Jose Alberto Rivera on the roster for 2021 because he was selected from the Rule 5 draft. If they don’t the Angels have to send him back to Houston.
@AngelsFan281 Jose Alberto Rivera hasn’t thrown above single-A ball, and he wasn’t exactly lights out there, either. He’s a soon-to-be 24-year-old with control issues. If…. a big if the Angels were to get the players I mentioned, Rivera is hardly worth keeping and can and should be sent back to the Astros.
Fantastic post fanatic- Cant believe I almost agree with almost every single one….especially #10 ! Id sub Walsh for Al but thats about it. Maybe wont go after Rosenthal as I feel hes a time bomb
Yeah make believe is fun to do. “Once upon a time in Anaheim…”
@Chief Two Hands
That is why I called it “My still to-do list”. Contrary to popular belief on these threads, fans are allowed to have opinions and dreams.
Halo lunatic more like it, my goodness.
@Cookmeister.
Name-calling… outstanding rebuttal.
Lol at the Bieber package. If that got it done, teams would be lining up to take him.
I really don’t think the package is that bad. Adell is still the 13th best prospect in baseball. Adams is the Angels 3rd best prospect. Rodriguez is Angels’ 6th best prospect. And Knowles is the Angels’ 8th best prospect. And Heaney to supplement their rotation this year allowing a stop-gap in the event their top pitching prospect, Triston McKenzie, isn’t quite ready.
According to a few trade analyzers, it’s relatively even, with the Indians getting young, cost-controllable talent, which they likely seek.
And if not Bieber, then Zach Plesac for a similar, though lesser, package.
You’re not getting Bieber for that package. Adell was pretty bad in AAA and the AZFL. Why they thought that promoting someone with a 43/10 K/W, and -0- HRs, in a hitter’s paradise, is just incredible.
He’s still an interesting prospect, but I doubt anyone pays top dollar for someone with a 55/7 K/W, after a 43/10 in AAA.
Promoting him substantially devalued him.
@JoeBrady
Not disagreeing with you there. It was premature to promote him.
Though I don’t think professional baseball evaluators are discounting as much as fans. There is still a ton of raw talent and room to grow. I mean, my God, the kid is just 21 currently, and even after that poor showing, he’s still the 13th best prospect in baseball according to MLB.com and I think Baseball America.
Like I said, he is still an interesting prospect. And I’d be inclined to throw out his MLB stats. But then I’d look at his AAA stats, which were awful. So I’d have to look at his AA stats. And AA was better, but based mostly on 8 HRs in 159 ABs, but even then, I’d be concerned with the 41 Ks. Even though he was young, what do 41 Ks in AA become in the pros?
It’s probably only because he’s an Angel, but his numbers remind me of Brandon Wood. Great minor league power numbers, but they kind of masked over the fact that he struck out a lot.
PLEASE, do not tell me that! Haha. No to Brandon Wood!
why? why? what the heck why?
Got to be kidding me Perry! This is the best you can do for the rotation.
I don’t want to be mean, but…
Is it possible for a trade to be lose/lose?
It make no sense, unless there is a package in the works that includes one of our young pitchers in the current rotation to acquire an ace
There isn’t. We’re not that smart.
nice deal at that price
With a good spring Jones could end up the Orioles 2B. Yolmer Sanchez can play 2B/3B/SS and Galvis at SS.
More poor GMing. This does not move the needle at all.
$5 million for one season and for a prospect in limbo. That makes this a good move. They’re now $20 million under the threshold. Now they’ll have more to offer for a Luis Castillo or a German Marquez by centering a package around Heaney or Canning instead of just a prospect like Adell or Marsh.
Heaney is injury prone and has started 30 games only once in seven seasons and is a free agent after the ’22 season. No chance the Reds or Rockies trade Castillo or Marquez for a package centered on Andrew Heaney
Angels have to the worst run team in all of baseball among those not tanking or holding fire sales. Spend all kind of cheese on hitters but just can’t seem to put together a pitching staff. Cobb ain’t bad as a contender’s #5, but he’ll be counted upon to be more than that for the Angels, and that’s not gonna work out.
Very good now # Fire Callaway & # Sign Bauer!
The Angels need an ace with competitive fire that they have been lacking since Jered Weaver left.
“The Angels need an ace with competitive fire that they have been lacking since Jered Weaver left”
I miss him so much. On a bad day, he’d give up three runs in seven innnings…and be furious that Sosh pulled him.
Jered Weaver of course was on my fantasy team.
I still remember his start in Game 1 of 2014 ALDS where he brought it, his Parents cheering him on in the Stands, and his pickoff of the runner Nori Aoki on 1B. What a move!
I said it before, but I like this move more for the O’s than the Angels (although fine for them by all means). Not like $5 mil, some of which is deferred is any skin off the angels back and they get a solid enough pitcher for dirt cheap. The O’s get some salary relief, even in deferred money which will be nice later when these prospects turn into something. And honestly, I love the prospect they grabbed in this deal. I think he’s solid and undervalued
Arte M. thought he was getting TY Cobb in the deal.
Not even corn on the cob
When is the last time the Angels had a quality 1 or even 2 starter? Was it Weaver? There is a reason why the Orioles are paying the Angels $10m for Cobb. They know he is useless
NY Yankee,
The year was 2014 and Weaver was the Ace & Matt Shoemaker was the #2.
They both pitched extremely well in the postseason but the team never advanced.
The Angels are more focused on selling condos than they are winning.
Sub .500 team in 2021 with this punchline of a pitching staff. Their whole approach to pitching starting in A ball is idiotic. So disappointing.
The AL West, at this point, looks like it’ll be wide open and while the Angels haven’t gotten that big ticket arm, I think they’re positioning themselves to be competitive.
However, if they don’t manage to reach the postseason this year, something’s gotta give there — changes will need to be made.
“Angels haven’t gotten that big ticket arm, I think they’re positioning themselves to be competitive.”
lol. Good one. Angels wouldn’t be competitive if they added deGrom and Cole. Teams is an unbalanced mess and has been for a decade.
That’s not true. The Angels scored runs last year even with down years by Upton, Ohtani Pujols (even by his Angels standards), and got nothing from RF or 2B.until Fletch moved over with the return of Simmons. And they will have Walsh for a full year. And Adell will be in the minors where he belongs. The Angels were 4th or 5th in nearly every offensive category in the AL. 2nd in OBP. And even Rendon and Trout could easily improve their stats over last year.
The Angels will be competitive in this much weaker AL West, barring a major signing by HOU or OAK. The bullpen couldnt be any worse. Ohtani may return to SP. And Canning is a year old. Bundy, Heaney and Cobb will probably be what they are; 3-5 position starters.
I have been SO down on the Angels for the last 10 years, but they stand a great chance of being competitive in this turkey of a division..
“I have been SO down on the Angels for the last 10 years, but they stand a great chance of being competitive in this turkey of a division..”
I’m just not seeing it. The 40 man roster is just too imbalanced and the dysfunction that created this mess (Moreno’s priority of making $$$ over winning) is still in place.
What imbalance? Be specific.
Being competitive is as much about the division weakening as it is about the likely improvements in run scoring.
“What imbalance? Be specific.”
2020:
Starting Pitching: Total WAR 0.6 (18th out of 30 teams)
Relief Pitching: -1.1 WAR 19th
Catching: 0.6 WAR 6th (I was surprised we ranked this high)
1B: -0.3 WAR 17th
2B -0.3 WAR 14th
3B +1.4 WAR 4th
SS +0.6 WAR 13th
LF -1.3 WAR 28th
CF +0.9 WAR 8th (only a solid year for Mr. Trout)
RF -1.7 WAR 30th
See any weak spots? I do. Any reason to expect the team to make some minor changes and turn it all around? I don’t see it.
Since 2020 was kind of an abbreviated hot mess, let’s also look at 2019
Starting pitching: +0.6 WAR 30th
Relief pitching: +4.4 WAR 14th
Catching: -0.8 WAR 28th
1B: +0.1 WAR 26th
2B: +2.9 WAR 21st
3B: +2.0 WAR 21st
SS: +2.8 WAR 15th
LF: +0.9 WAR 22nd
CF: +7.9 WAR 1st
RF: +2.5 WAR 11th
Only one glaring bright spot….Mr. Trout and I thank the heavens for him every game.. It wouldn’t surprise me if Rendon puts us in the top 10 for 3B…with a potential to be near the top. But Simmons is gone and we ranked in the lower third in most other areas. Given the weak areas, some mediocre minor moves, and a lot of wishful thinking…..IMHO, we do not figure to be even a wildcard contender in 2021.
:
“Being competitive is as much about the division weakening as it is about the likely improvements in run scoring.”
Now there is one heck of a plan….hope that the other teams are worse than we are? Seems like wishful thinking. Both Houston and Oakland did slip in 2020….but we still finished 4th and 10 games behind Oakland in only a 60 game season.
Complete nonsense Comber, add Degrom and Cobb, and they wouldn’t be competitive? I’m now thinking you’re just trolling these message boards, and definitely aren’t an Angels fan…SMH
*add Degrom and Cole u said, not Cobb…
SingtheFNbat:
The Angels have gradually become the Clippers of baseball. Moreno has leveraged fan loyalty into exponential growth of his personal net worth, while we haven’t won a playoff game in over a decade. We just finished 10 games out….in a 60 game season, The year before that, we finished 35 games out. Do you think adding any two SP’s to this mess would turn things around? I don’t.
We If you want to play 11 y.o. cheerleader, that’s fine. But it doesn’t make you any more of a fan than anyone else.
Wow another end of the rotation starter.Can’t say I’m surprised considering the source.
As an Angels fan, I don’t hate this move.
In 2020, by far the worst liabilities on the Angels roster were the back end of the rotation and the back end of the bullpen. And to some extent, the former negatively influenced the latter.
So what did they do? They went out and got a more reliable closer (who will assuredly not blow ~15 saves like they did last year), which is a net plus of a few wins right there. Then they go out and get a couple of starters who are known for being reliable innings eaters, if not overly flashy, strikeout machines. Which is fine, as the defense will improve most any pitcher who comes to LAA. Cobb fits this mold just fine. He will put up innings, induce ground balls and keep his club in a lot of games that completely got away from them in 2019-20 — all while leaving enough $$ for a potential #2 type starter, should the opportunity present itself..
In other words, Minasian has very quietly achieved a lot of what he set out to do — put up a pitching staff that, with a solid defense behind them, will win a lot of the games this club lost the past couple of years. And let me just remind some people that this club was in the mix until the last week or two in 2020, AND the rest of the division has taken a step or two back. I agree the work is not done, but by most measures, this club is already in a much better place to open 2021.