Alex Reyes is officially out of the running for a rotation spot in St. Louis, per MLB.com’s Zachary Silver (via Twitter) and others. Reyes will head to the bullpen. With a healthy year, the Cardinals still hope that Reyes will pitch out of the rotation in 2022. For now, he’ll be limited to 100 innings, per Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (via Twitter). He’s likely to factor into the end-of-game mix for St. Louis. He made one start versus 14 appearances out of the pen last year, finishing with a 3.20 ERA/3.24 FIP across 19 2/3 innings.
Take Miles Mikolas out of the equation for the opening day rotation as well, adds Goold (via Twitter). Mikolas has been suffering from shoulder soreness and unable to shake it. He was scheduled to pitch tomorrow, but that’s no longer in the cards, meaning Mikolas won’t be able to get enough work in to be ready by the opener. Mikolas missed 2020 with a flexor tendon strain.
Originally signed to a two-year, $15.5MM deal out of Japan prior to the 2018 season. Mikolas made good on that deal, making 32 starts in each of 2018 and 2019 with a 3.46 ERA/3.76 FIP in 384 2/3 innings, 48.4 percent groundball rate, 18.4 percent strikeout rate and 3.9 percent walk rate. Though Mikolas falls on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of missing bats, he can be considered elite in limiting free passes. After a 200-inning effort in 2018, the Cardinals extended Mikolas for four years, $68MM. Last season was the first of those four seasons. The Cardinals owe Mikolas $17MM each year through 2023. He’ll undergo further testing in the hopes of pinpointing the source of his shoulder soreness.
The Cardinals rotation is already without Dakota Hudson, who had Tommy John surgery at the end of September. With Reyes headed for the bullpen and Mikolas joining Hudson on the shelf, there’s an opening at the back of the Cardinals’ rotation. Jack Flaherty, Adam Wainwright and Kwang Hyun Kim are the only gold-plated locks, with Carlos Martinez likely to join them. The last spot is an open competition between John Gant, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Johan Oviedo, and Jake Woodford.
Yikes. Not sure how “gold plated” Wainwright is at his age. Flaherty was far from an ace last year. And Kim’s major league career consists of 39 innings (and he’s no spring chicken either). Maybe they should have thought of their pitching staff before cramming a $200m contract into their payroll structure.
I think they meant locks for the rotation, but I hear ya.
So Arenado deal was a mistake?
Way I has been very solid the last 2 years and provides a veteran presence. Flaherty really had one bad outing that inflated his ERA. He wasn’t as untouchaeable as 2019, by any means, but was still good in a shortened season where they did actually watch his workload. And if you look around the division, no staff is really elite or out in front of everyone else.
Way = Waino. Autocorrect sucks.
Seamaholic- Re: your comment on Flaherty being “far from an Ace last year.” You’re forgetting two very important points in your Flaherty had a bad year* narrative.
1) 60 game 2020 season = Small Sample Size 2) The Cards lost 17 games to COVID-19 related postponements then were forced to play 11 doubleheader’s. The had to squeeze in 53 games into 44 days
Wainwright is ready for his gold-plated watch that comes with retirement.
Three starters. Not an ideal situation in a season where pitching depth might be more important than usual.
Did you not already see the depth that the cardinals have competing for the final rotation spots? They will be fine…plus Hudson comes back next year and Libertore might be ready to help out mid season…forgot about Thompson who was not mentioned in the article
what scares me is that we might have to rely on martinez at this point i’ll take a used jock and an expired lotto than have him start. this might also be the opportunity for pounce to prove he his a stater. still with rey going to the pen mik is out indefinitely and cmart only going to last like 3 starts we’re still short a sp.
Mikolas is probably only going to miss 1-3 starts, and Martinez has been great no matter where he pitches save for the extenuating circumstances of last year.
Meanwhile, at least a quarter of the teams in MLB would love to have the likes of Gant, Ponce de Leon, and Woodford competing to be their 5th starter. Heck, the Cubs and Angels would kill for that kind of depth.
I knew Mikolaus wouldn’t be ready. Even though we have depth it will be tested. Unrealistic to think we can get 200 innings out of Waino, KK and Martinez. Ponce should get a chance. Too bad we couldn’t have gotten Odorizzi on a 1 or 2 year deal
@Lanidrac cmart’s ability isn’t what scares me tbh he should be a top 10 pitcher or at least top 15 when he is on. i don’t what is going on in cmart’s head he’s the perfect example of all the talent in the word but lacks it mentality. come on your a pro ball player what are you doing at the s-clubs that the working man goes to then get all upset when a drunken fan calls you out. getting into a fight with a fan on the east side was the last straw and i’m just tired of his so-so attitude. his attitude doesn’t fly here in stl we’re a working class city and we want our players to be the same hard working at there craft. anyways enough of my cmart rant wish him the best this season and that he figures out his head problems because he is awesome when has his stuff together.
I love this stuff every spring…..
So-and-so will be or won’t be in the rotation or has won a starting position player job or will be the closer.
Within a month that changes due to injuries, poor performance, or someone off the bench or in the high minors is on fire and deserves more playing time.
I believe the last time a ML team went though the year with a set (5 man) starting rotation was the Cleveland Indians maybe 15 years ago. With the way pitching is changing (watch what the Rays do this year) MLB will very probably never have that happen again.
At least not for a while. The way things are going, the 162 innings needed to qualify for a league ERA title will have to be dropped to a lower number. My guess is 144.
Having to include Austin Gomber in the Arenado trade stings a bit. All the pitching the Cardinals have traded away to get hitters that didn’t stay or under performed stings. Zac Gallen, Sandy Alcantara, Luke Weaver, Marco Gonzales (hopefully Tyler O’Neill rips the cover off the ball this year) They still have players who are going to perform. Johan Oviedo looked good last year for being a rookie at 22, Ponce De Leon if he can finish batters better than last year, Gant I think is a great person to give a shot to, Gant has been solid out of the bullpen, if Cabrera can figure control issues he could also start, he’s got electric stuff, just can’t control it like Randy Johnson struggled with early in his career.
Cardinals were in the bottom 5 in offense last year and had pretty decent pitching. Offense was the most glaring need going into the off-season for the Cardinals. The fact that they finished over .500 and made the expanded playoffs with an offense in the bottom 5 in the league is testament to how good the Cardinals pitching and defense was last year. They were also hindered by all the double headers
great point hippy but gonzo and weaver at the time were expendable but it still stings seeing them flourish on there new teams. least with gonzo before the trade seemed like jamie garcia 2.0 devastating when healthy but just couldn’t.
also didn’t want to see gomber go but we need a bat like nolan’s and at the time of the trade mik had not set backs and out the kids col wanted him or ponce we’re guys i could live giving up. (not that i wanted to give up either but to get quality you gotta give up some quality)
Gold is the gift for 50th anniversaries and he’s closest?
12 of the 22 runs Flaherty vs the Brewers over 2 starts. Then remember the start & stop & start & stop & start to Cards season.
Plus 9 starts is an small sample size.. 2020 for every player should not be viewed with much merit.
I like Flaherty, Waino, and Kim as 3 different individually, but as a 1,2,3 in a rotation… it’s suspect. I find that Kim would be a good 4, Waino a good 3, and Flaherty is an ace though they’re missing a #2 starter and #5 starter. I’m intrigued by how they make up those gaps, but I imagine a busy trade deadline day for them.
@rangers29 like that you posted that wanio is #3 and i’m a big fan of his this point in his career he is a #4/5 guy. either way your right unless some kids step up and/or mik can get back to health we have a solid 1 and a bunch of 4 and 5’s
Once Mikolas comes back, he’s the #2. Meanwhile, C-Mart is probably heavily overqualified to be a #5, and who knows what they have with those swingmen and potential rookies?
Flaherty is not a true established Ace. As a matter of fact—- on a team with a true Ace—- Flaherty could very well be a number 3 starter.
Compare Flaherty to the other Major League team’s #1 starter. I think you will see my comparisons.
@17dizzy your partiality right jack isn’t a true ace yet this season is the year he needs to step up and show everyone he is an ace. hard to put a lot of weight to any numbers last season, last year was an outlier filled of crazy stuff but i have faith in jack that this year we’re going to see the 19 jack and not the 20 jack
Rick Porcello says hi
Be a good opportunity for the Braves to maybe capitalize with one of our borderline guys if you ask me. Wilson, Wright, Davidson, Touki, Newcomb … or maybe not capitalize, but find a mutually beneficial option. For example, say Newcomb and Ender, and they throw us a young top 30 minor league prospect and cash idk. Lol. Y’all don’t need Ender? Welllllllllllllll hmmm… cut him and take his salary or half his salary off our books plz lol
if we’re going to take on ender then atl would be lucky to get a lotto ticket if you want any prospect for ender then you guys gotta take carp back at least. unless mo is drunk and high why would we send a top 30 guy for ender just to cut and eat that money.
Guys like Ponce de Leon and Woodford are already better than those castoffs.
Not sure what else Ponce de Leon has to do to convince mngmt that he deserves the rotation spot. Gant is too good out of the bullpen to give it to him imo.
same with reyes
@troll if wasn’t for 2 major injuries and a short season yes reyes would be a starter this year but the cards don’t want throw into the fire like that only having like 50 innings in like 3 years. that was also confirmed on the radio here that reyes is going to be in the bp so they 1 monitor innings and 2 get him some innings and stretch him out for next year
C’mon, give Angel Rondon a shot at the #5. He should have just as much as a shot as Oviedo.
Rondon’s stuff is playable now with the development of his secondary pitches and his mechanical deception, whereas Oviedo, while his stuff is playable too, has a bit more room to grow, and I’d rather see him work on his secondary stuff rather than getting by at the MLB level with his relatively flat fastball alone. Rondon’s fastball at 92-93 jumps as much as Oviedo’s fastball at 95-96.
He was scheduled to pitch tomorrow, but that’s no longer in the cards. I get it – well done TC well done.
The Rockies have a better starting five than this…
Cardinals appear a bit short on pitching, right now they look like a .500 ballclub.
What is obvious in ST is laughable by mid-May.
agree – I think they’ll be much worse as if they lose Flaherty for even a two weeks or Kim regresses they are in BIG trouble with no help in sight. Very lucky to be in a weak division but will get destroyed if they actually make the playoffs without trading for pitching, starting and relief.
ST stands for Spring Training.
I remember 2019 – Mike Shildt’s first full season as manager. Cardinals came out of the gate with great, deep pitching on paper. The wheels immediately fell off – starting and relief pitching was in tatters for a month. Cards obituary for 2019 was being written before May 1.
Slowly the pitching stabilized. Traction started when John Gant was forced into the bullpen and was able to put a stop to the pen blowing games in the late innings. Shilt didn’t panic. Kept his head. Made a number of adjustments on how the staff was being deployed, and had the pitching coach make some quick, minor modifications to the individual pitchers approaches.
The pitching came around. The Cards won the NL Central. Shilt was named NL Manager of the Year.
The Cardinals are as professional a baseball operation as there is in MLB. They are strong on playing fundamental baseball, and strong on working with their pitchers. Have been for over 100 years. It’s March 10. Spring Training. It’s ridiculous for anyone to be panicking at this point.
People said that the Arenado trade made the Cardinals the favorites for the Central crown, but I seriously lean toward the Brewers. Milwaukee has the pitching that St. Louis lacks, has some pretty decent bats of their own, and upgraded defense significantly with Wong and JBJ. If I were a betting man I’d put some money on them
Cardinals defense is better and so is their offense. Bullpen is actually a strong point for the Cardinals. I would put money on them to win the division.
pinstripes you make a good point but i’m gonna put some faith into our kids for years our pitching depth in the minors have panned out and until it doesn’t gotta give some faith. i can see where your coming from outside looking in our sp look weaker than it is.
No, the Cardinals’ rotation (even with Mikolas missng a couple of starts) is at least as good as the Brewers’, and St. Louis has the clearly better bullpen.
Redbirds (and most teams) will need about 11 starters throughout the season. Right now they look short. Probably will be scooping guys up off the scrap heap when rosters shake out in a few weeks and SPs start getting their walking papers.
The average is about 8, and the Cardinals already have that.
That can easily pick up free agent or someone who had been DFA!!
Someone who has been DFAed isn’t going to be better than the young guys they already have.
stan lee the manly
So the majors will get to see some of their pitching depth a little early. With Yadi behind the plate, it won’t be too hard to bridge the gap until Mikolas comes back. This doesn’t really change much.
Add Mikolas to the long list of guys signed to large contracts just prior to breaking down. Wonder how much the doctor was paid to pass his physical?
Seriously would have been better off adding a few arms.
other than bauer who was out in the pitching market better than the kids we have now or had so many questions that most likely the kids we have now would be pitching while there on the dl.
Cardinals have so many question marks.
Personally I don’t see the issue. Yeah it would be nice to see Mikolas and Hudson in the rotation, but the depth in pitching is outstanding. Bullpen is a plus unlike many years. Personally, I see Flaherty, Kim, Waino, Ponce and perhaps Woodford. Really that 5th spot can be adjusted frequently and take little away from the effectiveness of a bullpen with Hicks and Reyes back and C Mart, Miller and Gant rounding out the majority of the later inning work
Starting pitching matters less and less each year.
More pitchers will be pitching 2-4 innings per game, 3-4 times a week. If they’re doing well they stay in, if not they get pulled and try again a few days later.
The trend is your friend.
My prediction that the Milwaukee Brewers were going to win the NL Central was met with Pitchforks and Torches. I said Brewers before Arenado and I said Brewers after Arenado trade. My Brewers prediction is looking really, really good right now. We all know that St. Louis just doesn’t have the sticks. Goldschmidt is old and now overrated. Arenado has always been overrated. Let’s see Nolan without Colorado air. They got defense. Will they have enough pitching? The answer is no!
Burnes and Woodruff and pray for rain.
@berry i’d put more stock in chc winning than mil both teams have questions and so-so pitching staves (cards have just as many questions too). chc has a better lineup than mil and well they have won the nlc last few years. brew have 2 starters and that’s it and one of them doesn’t have a lot of mlb time. yes mil has a pen and sured up there d but off. there just as weak as the cards wong and jbj aren’t providing protection for yelich and after yelich who the brew have to bat in front and after him.
stan lee the manly
The Cubs have won it once in the last three years lol. And that was in a short season where their lack of pitching depth couldn’t hurt them as much. Cards won it in 19 and Brewers in 18
Did you see Goldy’s #s last year? He not that old and not overrated. Arenado isn’t overrated; he’s just that good. Getting out of Colorado means his road numbers will go up.
Meanwhile, their pitching is at least better than what the Brewers have, especially in the bullpen.
How will Arenado’s road number “go up” by “getting out of Colorado”?
nolan is going to be hitting in more hitter friendly parks compared to the nl west, col and az are the only hitter friendly parks in the west. also matt holiday kept his off. numbers solid after leaving col.
Proud Cardinals Fan
Relying on carlos martinez is a disaster. Need to bring inna reliable starter. Outfield is also not a sure thing. The st louis press has already anointed dylan carlson as a future hall of Famer when he’s actually accomplished nothing. Harrison Bader has proven he cc’s ant hit and Tyler O’Neil is a strikeout machine. With another outfitter whoncan actually hit and another good starting pitcher,we would be odds on for central title,and be able to go further in playoffs. St Louis media ge tree s carried away over cardinal “prospects” Ivan Herrera,who has accomplished nothing outside of AA ball,is breathlessly spoken of as the catcher of the future. WHY? What has he done to make that claim a valid one? Outside of signing an exciting new 3rd baseman,management has not addressed any issues over the winter
We appreciate the honesty in regards to your squad. Sticks are lacking and the starting rotation is an arm short. #Respect
The only lousy season C-Mart has ever had is last year. Are you saying guys like Yelich and Baez are unreliable?
Carlson was on fire after he returned from his demotion last year. It’s a very small sample size, but it was indeed an accomplishment and a promising sign.
Bader rebounded with the bat last year. Again, a small sample size, but it still means that in 3 seasons as the starter he’s had 2 above-average offensive years and just 1 lousy one. I’ll give you that they could use someone like say Fowler who can hit better than O’Neill, though.
Anyway, Mikolas won’t be out for long, so leaning on their impressive depth in the meantime isn’t much of a problem. Getting that 3rd baseman was still an impressive move, and management *couldn’t* address any further issues due to their need to cut payroll.with the pandemic.
Anyone with a brain can see that Herrera and Carlson will be future MLB regulars, if not all stars.
Proud Cardinals Fan
Relying on carlos martinez is a disaster. Need to bring inna reliable starter. Outfield is also not a sure thing. The st louis press has already anointed dylan carlson as a future hall of Famer when he’s actually accomplished nothing. Harrison Bader has proven he cant hit and Tyler O’Neil is a strikeout machine. With another outfitter who can actually hit and another good starting pitcher,we would be odds on for central title,and be able to go further in playoffs. St Louis media gets carried away over cardinal “prospects” Ivan Herrera,who has accomplished nothing outside of AA ball,is breathlessly spoken of as the catcher of the future. WHY? What has he done to make that claim a valid one? Outside of signing an exciting new 3rd baseman,management has not addressed any issues over the winter
Pirates are more and more looking like the smartest guys in the room in the AL Central. They continue to stock up with very young low-level minor league talent. Ke”Bryan Hayes is a stud. If Mitch Keller and a young pitcher or two step up with the addition of either Rocker or Leiter and you have an organization poised to dominate the NL Central in the next few years.
yo barry did pit swap leagues this season if so that just helped out cws then but if that didn’t happen pit plays in the nl comedy central division not the al cc.
@letsholdemandgohome no i’m a carpenter and not a professional writer because my english sucks but hey thanks for pointing that out because you know you gotta be a english major to post on a mlb fan site.
Sorry if I offended you. I was just giving you s*#t. I didn’t mean to sound like I was insulting your intelligence. My dad was a carpenter for over 50 years.
hey all good bro i take no offense that was more of my natural sarcastic response to that response thanks to a good friend of mine who we nicknamed english major. lol my dads been a carpenter for about that long too big reason i’m a carpenter and as good as i am
stan lee the manly
Man, if you know anything about the Pirates, you know that ownership won’t spend to keep that talent. That haven’t ever dominated for “the next few years” because every year of spending is met with five plus without. The Pirates may have their year, but there won’t be much after that. Especially after the new CBA turns the existing pay structure on its head and young talented players get paid more
Anyone who isn’t drunk of the STL media kool-aid knew this rotation was garbage well before this. Hudson was known to be out. Flaherty is the only commodity. Mikolis had a good year but he gets hit too much now. Kim is a reliever at best. Martinez is more likely to get blown up in one inning out of six than to make it into the 7th. And Wainwright couldn’t pitch in the road in 2019 and won’t make it through a full 162. Traded away a rotation piece in Gomber, albeit for someone we hope balls out. The depth they keep bragging about has never been there. They one (1!) starter. They should give Helsley the shot but won’t. Offense isn’t as good as the Cubs or the reds. Rotation is terrible. They finish 3rd or 4th at best unless they make some big pitching move. Might as well put Reyes and Libertore in the rotation and let them take their lumps and learn at the major league level.
Mikolas had *two* good years, not just one. Kim was a starter in South Korea and did an excellent job starting last year. Martinez has been great every year but last year. Wainwright’s road issues were a quirk of a small sample size, and he easily made it through 162 games in 2019. They hope Arenado *doesn’t* opt out. The depth has indeed been there with Gant and Ponce de Leon pitching pretty well as spot starters and guys like Woodford and Oviedo nearly (if not fully) Major League ready.. Try checking some facts before you complain!
The offense is better than the Reds (and Pirates), while the pitching is overall better than the Cubs and Brewers (and Pirates), including their excellent bullpen.
Martinez hasnt started more than 20 games since 2017. In 2019 Mikolas was fine but he wasnt a front of the rotation type pitcher. Kim has had two rough outings so far in spring training. Its spring training so thats not really concerning but you would like to see at least one good outing out of him. Not saying the Cardinals rotation is bad but I think you are over exaggerating some.
Come on now. The pitching is not as good as the brewers and about equal to the Cubs. The offense is not as good as the reds.
Look at Wainwright 2016-2019. He averaged about a 4.5 ERA and had a WHIP of at least 1.4 each year. Most pitchers who come from Japan end up in the bullpen. He only averaged 5 innings per game with just a 5.5 K/9 rate. That doesn’t project well for a full season as a starter. Mikolis was also terrible on the road in 2019 and was the definition of inconsistency month over month. The average pitching age of the rotation is 31. They need to get some young exciting talent in there and stop playing the old mans game. Baseball is changing and it’s passing Mozalok by.
The Cardinal pitching is easily better than the Cubs and Brewers. The Cardinals probably have the best run prevention (pitching & defense) in the division. They had a bad offense the past few years, which has held them back. If Arenado, can help them get to average on offense, they should win the division.
The Brewers have a few bullpen beasts, but there is a reason for the trade rumors surrounding Hader in the past year. They want to sell high. Bullpen talent is fickle and the Brewers don’t have the depth to withstand injuries or down years in the bullpen or rotation. The Cardinals depth is their greatest weapon. Mo always finds some guy who throws 100 and can be a relief weapon.
The Cubs seem destined for a rebuild. Lots of problems. The Reds were overrated last year. They tried to go all in and now it looks like they are rebuilding. The Pirates are tanking and rebuilding.
The Cardinals will win the division, but will not run away with it and the Brewers will challenge them.
@dse good take bro yes losing gomber hurts especially right now but i can recall all the way back to 06 when we had some kid named wanio closing out the biggest games of his life with almost no experience. yes the injuries aren’t great for the birds but they have shown in last 20ish years that when it comes to pitching we find a gem in our system to step up. my final point other than the rays or lad can you name another team that can develop pitching like the cards, it’s not like we’re picking in the top half of the draft year end and out. heck i can’t even remember when the cards had a pick above 15.
What about Matthew Libatore? How can you forget about the top left handed pitching prospect in the game?
MacKenzie Gore says hello
i’m excited about libatore but the kid hasn’t pitched higher than a maybe aa and the cards would be stupid to just rush him up because of injury unless from now until day of the season he is dealing like a hof and really pushes the issue let the kid develop in a “stress free” environment. as great as he may be he still needs work on some of his pitches but i will say this i’m excited to see him in our rotation all the interviews i’ve heard with this kid he sounds like a 10 year vet.