Angels manager Joe Maddon spoke with his GM Perry Minasian about potentially turning to top prospect Jo Adell in the wake of Mike Trout’s injury, per Mike DiGiovanna of the LA Times (via Twitter). Ultimately, the Angels feel Adell needs more development time and that takes precedence to the team’s need in the short-term. Adell has hit .246/.319/.631 in Triple-A, but his strikeout rate remains disconcertingly high at 36.1 percent. Elsewhere out west…
- Ty France could be back as early as tomorrow for the Mariners, per Corey Brock of the Athletic (via Twitter). Left wrist inflammation sent France to the injured list in the middle of May. France has walked at a career-best 10.5 percent rate in 153 plate appearances this season, but his numbers have otherwise been a touch down from last year. Still, despite a .278 BABIP and .137 ISO, both of which should rebound at least a touch, France has still been five percent better than average with the bat. If he’s not back on Tuesday, the Mariners regardless expect him to return at some point in their series against Oakland.
- Taylor Widener was removed from his start today with right groin discomfort, per Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic (via Twitter). Widener had just been activated from the injured list after a groin injury, so this is certainly an unwelcome development for the right-hander. He lasted just 1 2/3 innings before handing the ball to the bullpen. The bullpen did a nice job keeping the Diamondbacks in the game, but they ultimately lost 4-3 to the Rockies, their eighth straight loss.
How much longer can they give Adell if his strike out rate doesn’t improve? Eventually, you have to call a player up and see what you’ve got. If they succeed, great. If not, they’re a bust and ready for a DFA. Same thing with Nate Pearson.
Adell is 22 years old. They could not call him up till next year and he would still be in the age range of when top prospects are brought up.
He’s 4.9 years younger than his AAA competitors
Adell made his debut last year and it was embarrassing. He has not shown improvement this year in AAA. He is not ready and will only hurt an already spiraling Angels team. We need pitching first before anything else. Adell can wait or be traded for pitching.
He has not shown improvement at AAA? Talk about clueless.
Halo – can you have a debate without insulting someone? His hitting has gone down at every promotion. He is currently hitting .261 at AAA and striking out in well over one third of his at-bats. He has hit 9 dingers. Who cares when that’s all he does of value.
Disagreeing with you doesn’t make someone ignorant or clueless anymore than it makes you ignorant or clueless. However, it does make you sound arrogant to think your opinion is the only one that matters.
There is no debate. He’s hitting over 260 with an OPS of well over 1000 with 9 HRs in 69 ABs. In spring training he out hit Rojas.
He hasn’t shown improvement? Some of the takes are absurd and you can’t debate absurd.
Noticing a comment is absurd is not arrogant. There are a lot of absurd comments on this tread.
26 Ks in 76 ABs is a concern… he’s not ready. But he hasn’t shown improvement? That’s absurd.
“ He is currently hitting .261 at AAA and striking out in well over one third of his at-bats. ”
Hyperbole for days. He has 76 at bats, 26 K
So one fewer AB+ 1 fewer strikeout, it’s EXACTLY 1/3 of his at bats. He’s OPS’ing over 1.000. Boy, that’s sounds a lot like Ronald Acuna’s MO and that seems to be working just fine
Halo = I don’t know how else to explain the simple fact that his batting has declined, not improved, after every promotion. 9 homeruns are irrellevant when he strikes out over a third of his at bats. He is a one dimensional player right now. If he is teachable, he might be ready for MLB pitching someday. I haven’t looked at his defense numbers but he needed a ton of work there too. You are fixated on his 9 homers just to prove a point. That’s a very narrow look at the total player. His OPS is inflated.
There would be no reason for a comment board if everyone agreed all the time…how boring. But you can disagree without insulting someone for having a different take on the numbers.
I agree 100%. His current year stats, extrapolated to 600 ABs, would generate 226 Ks. Convert that to the pro level, and that is easily 250 Ks. The 9 HRs don’t translate the same way. If he Ks 250 times, he won’t get a single pitch to hit. He looks a lot like Chavis right now.
Having said that, as a RS fan, I’d gladly gamble on him, at age 22 in AAA. But he is not close to the prospect he was two years ago.
First of all he missed a year of playing. Second, he’s 5 years younger than his competition. And you people like prorating? At this pace, In six hundred ABs he’d hit over 75 HRs.
But your answer to that is to cherry pick what you want to prorate. Your takes are absurd.
Of course I’m concerned about the strikeouts. But you people are looking for reasons to discount him. He’s not ready.
“At this pace, In six hundred ABs he’d hit over 75 HRs”
Yes. As long as all his PA come against 4A quality pitchers and in stadiums like Coors and Chase Fields, he might hit a lot of dingers in the majors too.
But if he plays most of his games at the Big A, the Oakland coliseum and T-Mobile park, against real ML quality pitchers?
Halo – no one, especially me, is saying he is a wash. I have only said he is not ready and should not be considered for a call up this season. So it sounds like we all agree. That was easy.
And I said he’s not ready. But he has shown progress.
Right, because everyone who has hit 75 HRs in a minor league season has stunk.
Why do you people metaphorically shout your ignorance at the top of your lungs?
Halo – That’s where you lose me on Adell. I don’t see the progress. Just looking at batting average, 2017 – .325, 2018 – .290, 2019 – .289, 2020 (MLB) – .161, 2021 – .261. Every promotion resulted in a downward trend. His OPS followed the trend with 2021 as an exception, explained by the total bases from the home runs. His strike out percentage followed the trend too: 2017 – 24%, 2018 – 28%, 2019 – 31%, 2020 – 44%, 2021 – 37%.
This is his first season at the AAA level. The 2021 minor league seasons is still very young so maybe he will start to trend up, again, if he is teachable. Based on what 61 pointed out though, it sounds like he is celebrating flashes of power amidst the start of a mediocre AAA showing. I hope the best for the kid, who is very young as many have pointed out. A couple years in AAA to learn and to mature will do him and the Angels good.
“Right, because everyone who has hit 75 HRs in a minor league season has stunk.
Why do you people metaphorically shout your ignorance at the top of your lungs?”
Remember Jabari Blash?
Jabari led the PCL in HR in 2018. He had 29 in 346 PA in Salt Lake City, which is around a 50 over 600 PA pace. Overall he hit .317/.431/.700/1.131 for the Bees that year
What did he do in 25 games for the Angels in 2018? Oh, that’s right, he hit .103/.200/.128/.328
So yes, you can appear to be one of the greatest sluggers there is in AAA, and especially the parks of the PCL West, yet still hit like a pitcher when called up to the MLB. And you not understanding that merely shows your ignorance, not ours
You just listed progress. Last time at AAA OPS 676. This time 1039. Last time no HRs 121 AB. Now 9 HRs, 69 ABs.
For the most part, he went a year without playing.
I see progress. I’m not saying he’s ready, but at this pace he breaks the PCL home run record set by Tony Lazzeri.
I don’t get the pessimism.
And how old was Jabari?
But if Adell is doing that at age 28 you can call him a bust.
It doesn’t matter how old Jabari was, it matters that he hit like Trout in the PCL West but like a common pitcher in the AL West
But look, what exactly has progressed with Adell?
In AAA 2019 he hit .264 with a .321 OBP, while walking about 8% and striking out in 36% of his AB
In AAA 2021 he has hit .261 with a .329 OBP, while walking about 8% and striking out in 38% of his AB
Where is the progress? Other than the HR, what shows he is getting better at anything?
You know for an absolute fact the near 500 iso will not carry over, but let’s be generous and give him a 200 iso in the MLB. That would be around a top 50 iso this season, so it is generous assuming he can make contact off ML pitchers like that.
So what would he look like?
Based off his 2020 MLB showing, that would be around .160/.210/.360/.520 with a 5% BB% and 44% K per AB rate
Yes it does matter how old someone is. You just disqualified yourself.
Where is the progress? Again, you just disqualified yourself. .
Let me guess, you like Marsh. This is like Wood / Aybar. Aybar was dissed left and right. Some people are incapable of liking both.
Brandon Wood NEVER had this OPS at AAA, and people loved him. Maybe people just like the white guy? I don’t know how else to explain it. It’s clearly not based on logic.
You don’t even seem to know what you’re arguing, as you can’t seem to remember what your old argument was once you’ve changed it to fit your new desire and squirrels
But once again,
2019 AAA – .264 BA, .321 OBP, 7.6 BB%, 32.6 K%
2021 AAA – .261 BA, .329 OBP, 7.9 BB%, 34.2 K%
Just point out the progress there for us? You act like it is so clear, so can you tell us what it is?
With the exception of the HR, he is hitting literally exactly like he did last time. And last time it meant this in the majors
2020 MLB – .161 BA, .212 OBP, 5.3 BB%, 41.7 K%
Go back and read my first post. I know exactly what I’m arguing. You just know anything about baseball.
You’re concerned about his KRate.. Fair. So am I, But to only look at his KRate is ignorant. .
I don’t think I’ve ever read anyone advocating that a players HRs should be thought of as singles. First time for everything.
Okay, I did look up your nonsensical Brandon Wood distraction attempt, and it has honestly left me confused
Wood hit .276 with a .355 OBP with a 28% K% in AA. That is an easier level and people expect those numbers to go down moving up to the harder AAA
In his first trip through AAA he transitioned at an ideal rate, hitting .272 with a .338 OBP with a 24.5 K% against pitchers who can hit the zone much better. He then followed that up with a .296 and .375 OBP with 23.2 K%
.276/.355, 28 K% – AA 2006
.272/.338, 25 K% – AAA 2007
.296/.375, 23 k% – AAA 2008
Can you really not see how that is progress??
Meanwhile, this is what you think apparently progress actually looks like?
.308/.390, 23 K% – AA 2019
.264/.321, 33 K% – AAA 2019
.261/.329, 34 K% – AAA 2021
HR will not transition that well to the ML level, everyone but you seems to get that. Moving up the ladder is about plate discipline and contact ability. Those are the things which will indicate if you can play in the MLs. Brandon Wood got better at the things which indicate ML capabilities (then still failed in the MLB) while Adell has gotten worse at them as he moved up and looked pathetic in the MLB
That is the sole reason why Wood was praised over his development while Adell is currently being questioned
Halo – The only progress in what I listed was his OPS, which is explained away from his home runs/total bases. Other than that alone, he has not trended up or shown progress in any category. Again, he is very young and the minor league season is just under way. I haven’t done a deep dive on his stats so if you see progress somewhere else, please point it out.
Again, I am not saying Adell is a wash. I believe that he should not be in any conversation about who to call up this year. He needs time to learn and mature.
Halo, I honestly do not think you know absolutely anything about what constitutes progress and MLB capabilities being shown in baseball
You seem to be one of the casual, know nothing fans that just goes “ohh, HRs are good” and really believes that means anything when transitioning from common minor leaguer fodder to the games best pitchers
And your randomly bringing up Brandon Wood reinforces that belief I hold of you, as the last post outlines
If those 9 HRs were walks, you’d be happy. That would be progress.
I took a tremendous amount of heat from fans when I said Aybar should be a starting shortstop over Brandon Wood.
Wood was never as good as Adell. That’s my point
Halo – That is false. So, my question was and still is, aside from the up-tick in homeruns and the corresponding OPS, where are you seeing meaningful progress? Specifically which stat? You have always touted yourself as a stat guy and criticized the use of ERA, BA, etc, alone to evaluate hitters and pitchers. So you must have something other than homeruns to support your assertion that Adell has made progress. Where is it?
As I said, you act like a common know nothing casual fan
Home Runs are largely meaningless when looking for development, yes
Why? Because if you can’t actually identify the other 99% of pitches well, or hit absolutely anything but the mistakes from AAA fodder pitchers …well, what happens when you start facing ML quality pitchers who don’t make such mistakes?
Adell is not progressing, that is not in question at this time. That has left you completely unable to point to anything and say “see, he got better at ___” over anything at all. That is why you are laser focused on what he has done with just those 9 mistake pitches he is unlikely to even see at the ML level.
But what do you have when you up the pitchers ability seen levels while removing the 9 mistake pitches from AAA fodder pitchers? We know exactly what you get, based off his AAA lines not changing one bit and his ML line he had sandwiched between them
2019 AAA – .264 BA, .321 OBP, 7.6 BB%, 32.6 K%
2020 MLB – .161 BA, .212 OBP, 5.3 BB%, 41.7 K%
2021 AAA – .261 BA, .329 OBP, 7.9 BB%, 34.2 K%
Expected ML line if he were to be called up again? There is only one option available to us here…
2021 xML – .161 BA, .212 OBP, 5.3 BB%, 41.7 K%
And why should he be expected to be just as bad in the MLB again? Because he has shown literally no development that even you can identify, despite your so desperately wanting to
And I don’t think you know a thing about progress. If his K rate stayed the same and his slugging pct went up 25% would you call that progress? If his KRate went down 25%, and his slugging stayed the same, would you call that progress.
Of course you would on both. Why you are not acknowledging it now is beyond me.
If his KRate went down 25%, and his slugging went down 25%, would you call that progress? I’d call that a disaster.
And we can disagree on the later, but I have no idea how we disagree on the former.
Its a downward trend because as soon as he figured things out and started to really hit, he has been promoted again before his stats could normalize.
When he was promoted to High A ball, he struggled for a month or two before figuring it out. After a couple weeks of hitting .400 he was promoted to AA. That 2 weeks of .400 didnt offset the 2 months of .150. Same thing in AA.
@prov356 Trout and Jared Walsh also struggled in their first time call up. It is not the end of the world. Both Trout and Walsh are fine now. Adell has a high strike out rate and low walk rate, so he just needs to be more selective at the plate. He is only 22yo, I believe he will figure it out.
The Angels have a great core in Trout, Ohtani, Rendon, Walsh, and Fletcher with Marsh and Adell coming up the end of the year or beginning of next year. . I am less worried about Adell and more concerned with how they address the pitching needs. The Angels have over $50M coming of the books, but need 3 or 4 starting pitchers, a complete bullpen, and a shortstop.
Angelfan – I couldn’t agree more. He is young an immature and needs to have his time in AAA. I think this year is too early, but if he suddenly catches on, he may be of value down the stretch. I would also support a trade of Adell for meaningful pitching, but that’s subjective.
“Trout … also struggled in their first time call up”
Trout and Adell are near prefect matches to eachother too actually, surprisingly. But you must think about the degree to which Trout supposedly “struggled” and how it lines up with his AAA line he was coming off of
.403/.467/.623/1.091, 179 wRC+ – AAA
.220/.281/.390/.672, 87 wRC+ – 1st ML
(wRC+ was about 1/2 what it was in AAA)
.326/.399/.564/.963, 167 wRC+ – 2nd ML
.304/.418/.582/1.000, 172 wRC+ – career
(Averaged within ~10 of AAA wRC+ since)
.264/.321/.355/.676, 67 wRC+ – AAA
.161/.212/.266/.478, 29 wRC+ – 1st ML
(wRC+ slightly under 1/2 his AAA one)
So, if Adell follows the exact same path as Trout, then we should expect a roughly 55 wRC+ (~600 OPS) in 2021/2022, and a 10 year career with around a 55-65 wRC+ (~600-650 OPS)
The difference between the two is age and K/W. Trout had a 16/11 in AAA at age 20. Adell has a 26/6 at age 22.
@darkstar61 obviously, Adell production is anticipated to produce beyond 55-65 wRC+. 65wRC+ is below Francisco Lindor. Not the good Lindor, the NY Met Lindor. Adell’s one of the top prospects in baseball, which doesn’t guarantee success. He has a wRC+ right now of 138, which is higher than in 2019 in AAA. He just need better plate discipline, which will increase his average and lower his SO rate. LAst week his average was below 200, now it is .261. It is hard to judge on small sample size because they can swing drastically week to week.
I know your post was just a troll post. There is no magic formula to tell if Adell will pan out. Only time will tell. Walsh was not a highly touted prospect, but he hit 9 HRs last Sept and is doing going this year thus far.
Alex verdugo played for 3 years in AAA, now is a star in Boston. When LA called him up, he was ready and hit the ground running
You couldn’t be more wrong
Err, Verdugo playing in Triple A for 2 yrs (2017 117gms Batting .314 and 2018 91gms batting .329) 2019 he was in the Opening Day Roster.
The reason why Alex didnt earned a full time promotion in 2018 is because the outfield depth the Dodgers have at the time ( Matt Kemp, Puig, Bellinger, Pederson, Kike Hernandez, Chris Taylor) and Matt Kemp actually batting really well at the start of 2018 season. But Duggy managed to get call up to the Majors sometimes in 2018, playing 37gms for the Dodgers in 2018
Saw the 106 in 2019 and thought it was AAA time, forgot he got hurt
Nevertheless, there were many times they bypassed Verdugo for a short term call up. And now he’s posted 3 years of 114, 126 and now 125 OPS+. Hate his attitude or flair or whatever all you want. But he’s been a fantastic asset since he debuted
Says the guy with no baseball experience
He has actually probably gotten worse. His plate discipline and ability to catch up with stuff hasn’t seemed to improved much at all, but he has apparently decided his shot to make it is to pound the ball as hard as he can and try to showboat his way back to the bigs.
It has resulted in a few early home runs against 4A and under pitching in launching pad stadiums, but will likely translate into even worse results than last time if he were called up again
And the worst part is, he is now even more full of himself. He acts like he is peak Primetime, Dion Sanders anytime he makes contact with a ball. He is doing dances crossing the plate, finger guns at pitchers, things like that. I’m surprised they don’t have the AAA manager punishing him for some of his antics, he looks ridiculous and it has to have the team hating him even more than they did before.
Let me make this simple.
Adell is striking out too much, he’s not ready.
Nine HRs…WOW!!!! Twenty Two years old… this kid is a legit prospect.
Just trying to make my position simple to understand.
Halo – Ok, so you define “progress” entirely based on his homerun total in AAA. Again, I consider that one dimensional. I don’t define progress so narrowly because of so many other aspects of his game that are stagnant to this point. What has been confusing for me is your insistence that he has made progress when I don’t see it in any other aspect of his game, for which you called me clueless. That is an interesting argument for you considering historically you have been critical of people who define a player’s value based on old school stats like ERA and batting average.
Total Bases are kinda of a big deal.
Would it be better if he had nine less Home Runs and nine more walks?
Zero HRs to nine half the ABs is progress. His K Rate hasn’t risen but his TBs have sky rocketed. Normally hitters sacrifice strike outs for power. So when power numbers are jumping at a geometric rate and Ks are remaining stagnate, that’s huge progress.
I think you have to squint and look at it sideways to actually believe he’s not making progress.
He strikes out too much. He needs to cut that down. But I’m happier with this than him striking out less and hitting for less power. If he had zero HRs and cut his K rate to 25%, I’d be less optimistic. Would you be more optimisitcic?
If he had zero HRs and cut his K rate to 25%, I’d be less optimistic.
Debates won’t be won by silly examples like a modest K reduction offset by 100% reduction in HRs.
I can make a similarly silly comparison by asking if you’d be happier with 60 doubles and 20 triples than 9 HRs.
Just for fun, and because he got promoted today, take a look at Hiura’s AAA production. He killed it in AAA the first time thru, with a 1.088 OPS and 19 HRs in 213 ABs, but with a weak 64/23 K/W. He got promoted, had a good rookie season, but the K/W followed him. He was down to a .707 OPS in his second year, and .513 in his third year, and then got demoted.
He can still be a success, if he gets his K/W under maybe 2.5 or less. But pitchers in the MLB punish guys with bad K/W. Always have and always will.
Total bases are a big deal unless that’s all the player has. As you have mildly acknowledged, his strikeout rate is a concern. It is actually horrendous. I would rather see more base hits and fewer strikeouts. His total bases would be unaffected. It is clear evidence that he is swinging for the fences every at bat, which is a sign of immaturity. Whether I squint or look with my eyes wide open, he has improved in one area alone – home runs. I believe that comes at the expense of a higher strike out rate. I believe he needs to spend all of 2021 in AAA and see where he is with his overall game by the ASB in 2022. That would be my projected timetable for him if I was king.
Again, I am optimistic that he can be a player of the future. I believe he is far from it now.
Your understanding of how things actually work is “progressing” just as well as Adells AAA stat line has
A reminder of my very first comment that you couldn’t handle hearing;
“Yes. As long as all his PA come against 4A quality pitchers and in stadiums like Coors and Chase Fields, he might hit a lot of dingers in the majors too.
But if he plays most of his games at the Big A, the Oakland coliseum and T-Mobile park, against real ML quality pitchers?”
You called that “metaphorically shout(ing) your ignorance at the top of your lungs” …but still have yet to explain to anyone how he will be better at absolutely anything once the AAA fodder pitchers and launching pad stadiums are removed from the equation
He’s a prospect. I think you people are looking for ways to be pessimistic
As far as production… he improved exponentially from his fist go round in AAA. It’s not remotely debatable.
I feel like I’m talking to the Claudio crowd again wondering why so many people are missing the obvious.
You guys can’t see the Forrest through the trees. All you look at is strikeouts. There’s a lot more than that.
Halo – “As far as production… he improved exponentially from his fist go round in AAA. It’s not remotely debatable.”
Other then homeruns, where has he improved exponentially? You have yet to point out a single category other than homeruns.
Okay, so can you just explain to someone how he “improved exponentially” then?
Because right now, we’re talking to the 12 year old girl crowd with us hearing nothing but “but he hit home runs” as your literal only talking point
What you absolutely refuse to address – those HR are coming off AAA fodder pitchers and in extreme hitters parks …two things which he will guarenteed not be having much at all of at the ML level
So he has done good at something that doesn’t translate to the MLB at all, and stayed just as horrific at everything else …again, just explain where the progress is, please
Other than Total Bases, Power, slugging, offensive production, driving the ball, runs scored, RBI, SBs, there is no progress… you got me.
I honestly can’t believe I’m having this conversation.
He has more TBs and RBI now in about half the ABs than he did last time he was at AAA.
Twice the slugging pct is a big deal.
@prov356 @darkstar You guys are hilarious. You keep asking, “What does he do better other than hit home runs?” I don’t know if you watch today’s game, but it is different than 15 years ago. Much of today’s game is centered around HRs and SOs. There are no more stolen bases. It is a huge improvement to go from 0 HR in 27 games against AAA pitching to 9 HR is 16 games against AAA pitching. This is significant, even if you say it is not. . Many survive in MLB by HR alone, see Gary Sanchez.
Walsh power numbers have not diminished after his promotion to the big leagues so you cannot assume that Adell’s power will suffer. It does not mean Adell will be a success. He will be given other chances. You can choose to be pessimistic or optimistic. Most will be pessimistic because of his first stint MLB, but ultimately time will tell if Adell pans out.
Your argument of what does he do better other than HR is reminiscent of Buddy Ryan being asked why he cut Cris Carter………”All he does is catch touchdowns”
And we honestly can’t believe we are having to have this conversation with someone who knows they are so comically wrong and comically outmatched, but has his feelings hurt because his crush is being questioned so is still arguing nonsensically
So let’s see …you listed a few things that are that way solely because of HRs (while his Single and Double rates are way down) plus …highlighted the fact he has a whopping 2 SB and his RBI total?!? Seriously?!? How pathetic
Meanwhile, still can’t point to a single thing in which he’s actually showing progress on though
Halo – “Other than Total Bases, Power, slugging, offensive production, driving the ball, runs scored, RBI, SBs, there is no progress… you got me.”
Most of those you mention are a direct derivative of increased homeruns, which we all agree has happened this season so far. However, to say generally that his offensive production is improved is inaccurate. For example, his OBP is .329 which is 30 points lower than 2019 and the lowest in his minor league career. We’ve already established that his BA is at it’s lowest point in his minors career. He has no triples, 4 doubles, and 5 singles. And you threw in stolen bases? He has 2 this season, albeit a young season. So no one can say either way if that will be improved over 2019.
So everything good is based solely on an increase in dingers. Everything else that makes an MLB ready player has not improved – yet. I attribute it to his age and immaturity. He will likely get there, although I don’t think he will rise to the level of the hype. My point is and always has been that he should not be considered for MLB this season, or until he shows more consistent production across the board. On that we all agree.
Angelfan – I agree homerun hitters sell tickets but they don’t win championships. Your statement contradicts the entire sabermetrics model for selecting players, which Halo is constantly referring to when it suits his argument. Everyone agrees his dingers are up. However, the question has been repeatedly asked because Halo has repeatedly insisted that his offensive numbers have improved across the board, which they clearly have not. I hope Adell gets it together, but homeruns alone don’t make a well rounded player.
@prov356 I think everyone agrees that Adell K rate is too high to be called up at the moment. He chase pct is probably way high based on K rate and walk rate. He needs to learn to take pitches out of the strike zone. Ideally, he can keep his production this year and drop his K rate by at least 7.5%, which is 3 less strikeouts per 40 PAs. Last week his AVG was below .200, now it is .261.. We need to see if he heads north or south from here. There are a lot of other stats greatly affected by the HR, which will increase as HR total/power numbers increase. . .
The Angels have a corner OF position available now and another one available next year after Upton’s contract expires. Ideally, these sorts would be filled by Marsh and Adell. This would allow them to sink more money into desperately needed pitching. There are quite a few quality pitchers available this off season and the Angels have plenty of holes to fill with money to spend. If they fail to land a couple quality SPs,, it will be very disappointing, which is nothing new as an Angel fan. There are a ton of good SS available this off season. I would much rather just re-sign Iglesias as SS. Knowing the Angels they will get Seager, Correa, or Story and build the rotation/bullpen with dung and sticks.
I’m comically wrong. This is the only place in the baseball universe where someone can double his slugging pct and is deemed to not be making progress.
That Adell screwed up again today. He struck out again and hit another one of those worthless home runs.
That’s now ten home runs. Too bad he isn’t making any progress.
You people are nuts.
Making this as simple as humanly possible
2019 AAA – .264 BA, .321 OBP, 7.6 BB%, 32.6 K%
2021 AAA – .261 BA, .329 OBP, 7.9 BB%, 34.2 K%
You can not point to one single area he has progressed at all – hence your total obsession over the 9 AAA fodders mistake pitches he managed to put out of the park in the Coors Field (SL) and Chase Field (LV) of AAA
This is the only thread in the history of threads where a player can literally double his slugging percentage and that is not seen as progress.
And that’s about as simple as I can make. it.
You: but his KRate and BB Percentage is not improving. He’s not making progress.
Me: But he’s doubling his slugging pct. He’s making progress.
You: but his KRate and BB Percentage is not improving. He’s not making progress.
Me: But he’s doubling his slugging pct. He’s making progress.
This is the only thread in history where someone can double their slugging pct and it’s not seen as progress.
“This is the only thread in the history of threads where a player can literally double his slugging percentage and that is not seen as progress”
Is his Hit rate going up?
…no, he’s getting many fewer non HR hits actually
Is his Double Rate going up?
…no, it went way down
Is his Triple Rate going up?
…nope, still hasn’t hit any
So on the HRs, are they against ML starters in pitchers parks?
…no, they are almost all against minor league journeymen and came in extreme hitters parks
So his sole progress is he is “hitting the mistakes of MiLB journeyman over the wall in extreme pitchers parks more often”
Of course, that is a completely worthless skill unless you plan on being a career minor leaguer, but hey, its literally all you got because in EVERY SINGLE OTHER WAY he has gotten no better to even gotten worse
You are the maybe the only person in history that can look at a guy who has the exact same to worse stats in basically every single talent evaluating stat and proclaim him “improved exponentially” because of the one thing that doesn’t tell anything about his future in the MLB
Angels & NL West
MLB Trade Rumors should do more stories about Adell. Fans have strong opinions about him.
Halo, you got Aybar and Claudio right. I hope you are correct regarding Adell. The Angels need another OF bat or trade bait for pitching. Either way, the Angels, and us fans, win if Adell is a success.
Here is my position regarding Adell, he’s making progress, he’s not ready, all prospects are suspects, I like his odds.
I just don’t understand how someone, can look at a player who has doubled his slugging percentage and not be optimistic.
Somethings I’m optimistic about, some thing pessimistic about. But everything is data driven.
The two most important stats are OBP and Slugging. Improving any of those two stats by 100% is cause for optimism.
“The two most important stats are OBP and Slugging. Improving any of those two stats by 100% is cause for optimism”
That is all, just laughing because, well hahahahahahahahahahahaha
You literally know nothing at all about baseball, do you?
You dont realize those are the two most important stats when it comes to generating runs? No wonder you don’t get it. You don’t understand baseball.
@darkstar61 So in short, Halo’s argument is that Adell has improved because because his HR total and slugging pct has increased dramatically. Your argument is that he hasn’t because his doubles are down.
I can’t believe I have to explain this, but doubles are nice but HRs are better. Slugging pct also account doubles, so Slugging pct would be affected negatively if it would be reflected in this stat.
We all agree that Adell needs to work on plate discipline, but you’re not going to get many to buy in that doubles are more important than HRs or that HRs are not improvement over doubles.
Adell hit his tenth home run today. I’m totally amazed he tosses that out.
I am laughing at the craziness of their position. He’s gone from zero to ten Home Runs and his slugging percentage has more than doubled. But he’s showing no progress? This is comically absurd. I don’t believe they believe what they are writing.
One last thing, his doubles are slightly down, His singles are down, his singles are now Home Runs. I guess he’s want him to be David Fletcher.
I think it’s the right thing to do. As much as they need him, it’d hurt his development if he were to struggle twice
Agree especially considering that 2020 was a lost year for all minor leaguers. He’s a young 22 going on a young 21.
Leave in Adell in AAA til September needs a whole season of dominance there’s no pitching this season anyway
Jo Adell is 22 years 45 days old. Most people his age are still at AA
Cap & Crunch
Leave the kid down
The seasons over in Anaheim
Going to be a huge offseason for the Angles …Somehow, someway they have to cobble together 3~4 Sps 4 Rps a C and Ss for around 65 mill …Arte feels more comfortable shopping at Whole Foods than Food4Less but he better get acclimated with the products on the latter soon. Their signings in this market have been terrible recently altho Jose Iglesias was great this year . It would be tough even for a good Front office, I worry for Ana
I worry as well. Time to trade Everyone they can and start over next offseason. I’ll give Minasian a pass this year but it definitely wasn’t a good start. This entire pitching staff needs to be revamped.
Adell sucks soon he’ll be 25 and have zero value when his “upside” disappears
Soon like multiple years from now…?
I honestly could say that I could understand why the Angels would put Jo Adell on the trade market. As I see now he’s probably blocked in Anaheim.
Adell is blocked in Anaheim? Are you people making this up as you ga along?
By whom is he blocked?
Major League pitching.
I got an idea…Let that commentator clown Daron Sutton get a few ABs…maybe he’ll get plunked in the head and we won’t have to listen to his God awful ranting during every game…
Still an upgrade on Rojas
Speaking of strike out rates has anyone seen the stats on Robert Pauson recently? I know it’s his first milb action, but yikes.
His name was Robert Paulson
I understand, sir. In death…. members of project mayhem do have names. His name…. was a Robert Paulson.
I didn’t realize how many scouts comment here. They know what Adell is already lmao.
Scout can be interchangeable w hater I think.
Adell was over hyped and busted out inside of a clueless organization. So it’s back to the drawing board.
Comparing him to ohtani is ridiculous but maybe more of a late blooming slugger. Lots of players have high K rates. The 35 homers they hit offset those rates somewhat to create enough value to put the guy on the field
I didn’t realize how many scouts comment here.
Don’t take this personally, but that was a really stupid comment. You can safely assume that almost anyone, on almost any website, is not a professional. If you signed in, thinking that you’d be discussing Adell with professional scouts, then you need to re-examine your life.
Some players are never “ready” to hit big league pitching. But for a lightning strike in drafting Trout, the Angels would be an entirely forgettable franchise at present. It takes several poor decisions to be as annually unimportant as the Angels. Jo Adell is on the Lewis Brinson path. Saying he’s “not ready” is a pleasant way of saying ‘he’s not good enough’ at present – excessive optimism regarding Adell’s potential is noble, but misleading.
Couldn’t agree more. Getting his K rate down to at least 20% is no easy task no matter what player we’re talking about. It all begins with going to the plate with a plan other than swinging as hard as you can regardless of the count. The player has to be willing to make significant adjustments. Bringing him up now makes no sense. Scan the waiver wire instead.
Are you people just making this stuff up?
Acura’s K Rate his last full minor league season was over 25%. Now Adell has to get his KRate below 20?
It’s obvious people are looking for reasons to diss on Adell.
He’s not ready yet. But he’s not far off. He’s a great kid, a great athlete, a great work ethic, a sharp mind, with a dad who played professional sports, I bet on kids like this every time, and he’s EASY to like.
You people are just as crazy as the Ohtani detractors.
You’re losing control. 80% of the comments are simply suggesting that he stay in AAA until he gets a better handle on the strike zone. But you are defending him like you are his agents.
If, like you keep saying, that he is a future star, you should welcome the additional AAA time. And, as a, Angels fan, you should be hoping he stays in AAA until they save another year of service time.
You know, after reading countless posts by you…..exactly who elected you the Baseball God you think you are…….each and every time you reply to anybody with an opinion all you do is put them down like baseball checks in with you prior to and after every game….and your seeming comments about being the Angels expert and each and every player……..Covid has caused a lot of physical and mental issues but the mental ones….right?
Leave him down until September. I’d say to dispatch him back to AAA for the first weeks of 2022 if the agreement between the league and players wasn’t expiring. If there is baseball in April next year I’m sure the extra year of control by holding the player back a few weeks will be gone. Anyone that doesn’t realize the loss of the 2020 minor league season hurt development of young players doesn’t know baseball.
The angels would be in convo for worst ran franchise w reds and Rockies if it wasn’t for their max payroll
The diva taking a bow at 3rd base shtick is pretty awful.
I don’t get to say this very often, but this is the right move by the Angels. Since the Angels are toast anyway, I’d leave him in AAA until his K/W was consistently under 2/1. You’ll get a better player, you’ll get a better draft pick, and you’ll get an additional year of service.
They should have kept Acuna in the minor leagues until he had the same ratio. They brought him up way too early.
You guys are making this stuff up as you go along.
I have no use for rationales based on sample sizes of 1. Michael Chavis hit 9 HRs in 103 ABs in his first two seasons in AAA. I barely even paid any attention to him because his K/W was 33/9. Adell has 9 HRs in 190 AAA ABs. with a 69/16 K/W.
And, FWIW, you’ve criticized virtually every poster on this thread. And I suspect we will be having this discussion in the future.
Wonder if the LAA would entertain Marsh for Deivi Cruz and Albert Abreu?
Deivi Cruz retired in 2005. Assuming you mean Garcia, the answer is still no. Garcia might still be a player, but right now, he is looking like an RP. Abreu. imo, doesn’t have much value.
I don’t think Garcia is anywhere near being tagged a RP yet, he’s so young and will have plenty of opportunity to stay a SP the next few years. He and Schmidt are the only young SP’s that are even in a position to make an impact at the MLB level in NY.
If NY is going to spend any decent assets I would like to see a plus defender in CF.
Ahhhhh, nothing like gliding into the long summer with hope already crushed….The life of an Angels fan…
I, for one, would like to see Brandon Marsh in the bigs.
Brandon Marsh is hitting 194 and is not healthy.
Neither are ready.
Brandon Marsh is a year older than Adell.
There is no hurry on Adell and there is no hurry on Marsh. Why the rush?
Woody & Rose
The Angel’s are a BAD TEAM, With out Mike Trout they are a REALLY BAD TEAM. One rookie is not going to change their fortunes they have more holes than the Titanic. Adell should come up when he has all the tools to succeed.
The Angels need young cost controlled talent to balance out this top heavy payroll. And no one player is going to turn the Angels season around. So you keep Adell in AAA to mature and work on his game. If he never does improve, then he’s a bust and you move on. But I’d imagine he is going to be at least a solid player some day.
Ryan McMahon of the Rockies batted.158 his first time called up the majors. He was 22 years old when he was first called up. Similar to Adell, he struggled with striking out at a high clip. Did the Rockies give up on him because he struggled? No. Point being Ryan McMahon made adjustments to cut down on his strikeouts. Now is McMahon a superstar? No far from. But my point is, Adell is only 22 years old, he still has time to make adjustments and become a better hitter.
McMahon really isn’t all that much either. His road OPS is only .663 this year, and .620 for his career. And almost no one is arguing that Adell is not a legit prospect, or that he won’t improve. IMO, and a lot of others, Adell is no longer an elite prospect. He could get there, but it would require a substantial improvement in his K/W.
I’ve seen a gazillion prospects with high-K, high power minor league stats, and very few amount to anything.
“I’ve seen a gazillion prospects with high-K, high power minor league stats, and very few amount to anything.”
And it can not be stressed enough just how cartoonisly bad Adells BB & K rates actually are
He is now repeating a sub 8.0 BB% & above 32.0 K% in AAA
The only qualified hitters to do that at the ML level the last 10 seasons are
So a Defensive minded Catcher with a negative value bat, and 2 guys who have a combined 0.3 WAR over 650 games
If you go all the way back to 1970 you add about another half dozen such players, the best of which was the almost superhuman Bo Jackson, who still only managed to put up a measly 7.7 WAR in 700 games of a mostly post-injury career
It just doesn’t happen, you can not be that atrocious with the bat and expect to have much of a ML career …and he’s that bad in AAA
He needs dramatic improvement or major league pitchers will continue to eat him alive (if he even gets a real shot in the MLB with those rates)
So Yo don’t think Adell will be any good? Which is fine, but I’d take you more seriously if you understood that doubling his slugging pct was making progress.
It laughable you don’t think it is.
I used McMahon as an example, because of similar age and numbers when they each got called up for the first time. Both were rushed to the majors before they were ready. My point is, just like McMahon Adell can improve and get better. A lot of people want to call him a bust, or call him overrated. With just a small sample size.
I like the Zunino example. He had 11 HRs in 203 ABs at age 22 in the PCL. But it came with a 66/17 K/W. It didn’t go away in the pros, and we see the results. He continued to hit for power, but with a .201 average. Same with Hedges. he had 21 HRs in 313 ABs at age 23 in the PCL, but with a 51/13 K/W. He too has hit for power in the pros, but with a .195 average.
IMO, both those guys would’ve been far better pros had they stayed in AAA until their K/W was under 2/1.
Right now he’s He’s Bo Jackson.
There are two points. There are real concerns about a player with those strikeout and walk rates can. Very valid point.
The second point is he’s not progressing. That’s absurd, of course he is.
Adell has ten Home Runs in 74 ABs. Zunino hit 227 at age 22. That’s a horrible comp in every way.
The comp is on the K-rate. Zunino never resolved his strikeout issues, so he never became a competent MLB hitter.
The comp is not very good. So it’s not his walks, it’s his strikeouts. Which is fine.
The bottom line is this, he’s going to have to get a handle on his strikeouts or his ceiling is limited. I think we all agree on that.
Unless he starts making more contact, his upside is Bo Jackson. A bad outfielder with elite power who can run. That’s his ceiling. His floor is pretty darn low.
He’s not ready, but the power progress is nice.
I don’t know why people don’t see his power as progress. Actually I do… it’s because they have tunnel vision.
Speaking of the Angels – can someone tell Joe Maddon to stop stroking that giga-nose of his then point to the bullpen like there’s a genie inside it telling him when to switch pitchers? It clearly ain’t workin’
Also can that Sutton dude stop flapping his mouth around every waking moment? I don’t need to hear the life story of every peanut salesmen in the stadium.
Every year the Angels waste away what little talent they have because the front office stat crunchers are too busy trying to figure out how many sides a baseball has when the objective should be to throw-em’ hit-em’ and catch-em’
TRADE JOE MADDON!