June 28: In an interview with Jesse Dougherty of the Washington Post, Boras struck a somewhat different tone: “When players are traded, and you refer to contract amendments, it does not necessarily mean an extension. It could be any amendment that gives him a reason to exercise his rights. That’s up to the player at the time. Max and I have never discussed the subject.”
Moreover, Boras noted that the Nationals’ recent surge in the standings renders any such trade speculation largely “moot,” as the team now increasingly looks like a potential deadline buyer (or, at least, one that won’t sell off major assets).
June 25: With a little more than a month to go before the July 30 trade deadline, some enterprising teams figure to reach out to the Nationals to gauge the availability of ace Max Scherzer. There are myriad roadblocks that stand in the way of a midseason deal, though. Among them: the full no-trade rights granted to players (like Scherzer) who have ten-plus years of MLB service, the past five with the same team. The star hurler’s agent, Scott Boras, suggested Scherzer wouldn’t waive those 10-and-5 rights to facilitate a midseason deal unless he and the acquiring team agreed on a contract extension.
“The reality of it is (a trade) is going to have to lead to something,” Boras told Gordon Wittenmyer of NBC Sports Chicago, clarifying that “something” would have to be an extension. Scherzer is entering the final season of his seven-year, $210MM free agent deal with the Nationals. That pact came with a series of deferrals, with Washington on the hook for successive $15MM payments through the end of 2028. Determining how much of the deferred money would fall on the Nationals versus any potential acquiring team would make a Scherzer trade something of an endeavor to begin with, and the player’s demand for an extension on top of that only further complicates matters.
Scherzer will turn 37 years old before deadline day. Teams are typically wary of investing in pitchers of that age, but he’s obviously no ordinary pitcher. Scherzer’s a three-time Cy Young award winner who looks as good as ever. Through 14 starts this year, he’s worked to a pristine 2.19 ERA/2.73 SIERA. Scherzer’s among the top ten qualifiers in both categories, as well as in strikeout rate (36.1%) and strikeout/walk rate differential (30.3 percentage points).
Justin Verlander, Scherzer’s former teammate, secured a two-year, $66MM extension from the Astros in March 2019. That deal didn’t go into effect until 2020, Verlander’s age-37 season. It came on the heels of a dominant 2018 effort that’s not all that dissimilar from Scherzer’s performance this year. Verlander’s deal was signed a full season in advance of free agency, though, not months-long into an elite platform campaign (although he would go on to post dominant results in 2019 after signing the extension).
With Scherzer halfway through another incredible season, he and Boras can justifiably set their sights higher than Verlander’s mark. Indeed, MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes recently ranked the superstar righty the game’s #10 impending free agent, suggesting he might command a three-year deal despite his age.
Any discussion about Scherzer waiving his 10-and-5 rights might only be academic, anyways. The Nationals have won nine of their last ten games to vault into second place in the National League East. At 36-36, Washington sits just three and a half games back of the division-leading Mets. The Nationals haven’t traditionally been a team that likes to trade away top players midseason, and their recent resurgence has them right in the thick of the playoff mix. Barring a dramatic drop-off over the next couple weeks, general manager Mike Rizzo and the rest of the front office look far more likely to add help to the big league roster rather than entertain offers on players like Scherzer.
How much more money does this guy need? Clearly money cannot cure baldness.
Not necessarily true. He could make a wig entirely out of dollar bills.
Bald guys are more aerodynamic
Am I the only one who thinks Max’s entrance song should be Crystal Gayle’s “Don’t It Make My Brown Eyes Blue”.
A team trading for Big Mac should have no issues with an extension provided him having used a substance to aid his results becoming an issue. I don’t know if this is a problem but what would be is if the Nats try to get another club responsible for his deferrals. In today’s game of finances, such is a non starter in my view unless it meant the player return would be minimal. Not many teams can afford to include a $45m pitcher tax wise on their roster.
Loretta’s sis had very long hair. I think it went almost to the floor.
The deferred money wouldn’t hurt an acquiring team’s luxury tax. That’s already been accounted for by Washington in the years it was earned from the contract. But it does add significant future real costs to the acquiring team and therefore they would probably offer a lot less trade value to get him if they are asked to incur those costs.
@Fever Pitch Guy
Unless Max came out of the dugout in a sequined tuxedo like some Vegas act — just once, as a joke — I don’t think that song would work too well.
Wonderful. I think it would be singular though – ‘brown eye’
@Jacob.
Well green hair is all the rage
it looks even worse when hes drenched in sweat and he takes off his cap. Has that comb over going and it looks awful lmao
Lol SFBayPi. Boras is obviously insisting on hair extensions.
Enjoy the game and stop commenting on the appearance of other grown men. Kinda creepy.
Reminds me of Michael Phelps – the guy is making serious bank off endorsements, yet he still hasn’t had any dental work done.
How much more money does the owner that trades for him need?
Someone is butt hurt this guy makes more money in one day than he will in his life
Way to be a cheerleader for millionaires, little toadie.
As opposed to you cheerleading for the billionaire owners?
The comment he responded to was actually about Max vs. normal person, but strawman away.
Elan musk says otherwise
So does Elun Mask
Or Elon Musk
So does musk for men.
Isn’t he Elen Musk now?
If I got money like that I don’t care what my hair or lack of looks like.
Now think if someone making less than you told you that you had earned as much as you need and didn’t need any more?
After all, from their perspective, you’ve earned plenty.
I’m guessing that you’d tell them to stuff it and mind their own business tight?
That… doesn’t make any sense.
1) He’ll still get his money (probably even more) in the offseason.
2) The “something” a trade could lead to is a legitimate shot at a ring.
It makes sense. This is simply about leverage. Stating this won’t stop teams from attempting to acquire Scherzer, but Boras is laying groundwork for a possible extension. He could also decide to waive this request for the right team.
I don’t think Scherzer is going anywhere. He’ll likely sign again with the Nats, and this could even be Boras’ way of prodding negotiations.
I just don’t see why Scherzer would “need” an extension unless he knows he’s about to get injured. Generally speaking, you make more on the open market than on the captive market. Not always true (Upton, Goldschmidt, McCullers, Lindor) but most of the time.
He’s giving himself two bites at the cherry – once with a possible great extension now, and another if that fails and he ends up in free agency anyway.
I really don’t know why people are so confused by that.
RemovePitcherWinsFromTheRecordBooks Maybe he just doesn’t want to move teams again more then once? He does have a family to think about as well. An extension would give him the security that he can end his career there.
also he also knows he is 37+ and teams aren’t lining up the block to get an “aging” pitcher. yes the man was underpaid in his last deal but cases like that are rare. with that being said sounds like he wants to set roots on either a winning team or stay put/retire which at this point in his career i don’t blame him.
@Brodie I think Scherzer is only of those older pitchers that will get significant interest in the open market. He could conceivably command a deal similiar to Trevor Bauer’s deal and it wouldn’t surprise me if he gets that.
@ Rocket32
Then he would just veto the trade.
Just stupid
Guarantee teams will line up to get him. especially Yankees
@Cam because when you’re this close to free agency the team has a lot more to gain from an extension than the player does. Unless some team decides to completely overpay him like the Mets did with Lindor.
@Rocket32 Why does it matter if he has to move teams more than once?
@brodie-bruce Scherzer will be fine. Assuming he is healthy this offseason there will be interest. Tons of it in fact.
I think you ‘two bites of the cherry’ scenario is him actually severely limiting his market.
@yc you make a great point and mad max seems to be the exception to the rule and most likely get paid. my point was based on hypotheticals and trying to put myself in the mind of an aging player being aware how teams view players nowadays. tbh i would love to see mad max come home on a 2 year deal especially since the cards are having money off the books next year
If the Nats don’t get the extension done by the trade deadline and they are out of the race, you can bet he’ll be on the move. Those deferred payments are a big reason why. Signing a 37 year old to a multi-year deal is very risky, and if that contract goes bad, they’ll be paying at least $45 million a year in dead payroll. That’s not to say that Scherzer won’t get a multi-year deal. I just think, much like the Tigers, the Nats won’t be able to offer as much as other teams and Scherzer will walk, exactly like he did on the Tigers, who got nothing when he did.
He’s not getting paid for the playoffs. So it’s simply his agent saying he’s not risking extra wear and tear on his arm without security. Agent doing agent things
Yeah! Players HATE playing in the playoffs and having a chance to win a ring!
Lol you asked the question as if you were confused about the why. If you just wanted to state your uninformed opinion you could have just done that.
End of the day, it’s a business. Scott boras gets paid when his clients make money, not when they play in the playoffs. Your lack of business lens on this is making it a much bigger issue than it actually is
One of my sales guys is going to school in order to become a sports agent, @chops. He is finishing up his Econ degree next year then off to law school.
Obviously, I’ve asked him tons of questions.
According to him, agents net anywhere from 5 to 10 percent of their clients earnings. I know this counts for not only contracts & clauses but endorsements as well.
So I’m just assuming Boras would actually collect some loot off of Scherzers playoff shares. This is small potatoes but it would certainly add up over time.
Why wouldn’t he get paid for the playoffs? You think they’re gonna have 0 fans attend games?
It’s minuscule in comparison to to the 20+ mil a year he is going to get if he stays healthy going in to the offseason.
So with all due respect, Boras is concerned about the money which is pretty much his job
Long story short: Scherzer’s not going anywhere. Not even Trader Jack McKeon and Jerry DiPoto could pull this one off. Too expensive and WAY too complicated.
The Jays have the money to make this happen!
They’re probably one of the few teams that would/should extend Scherzer too.
The question is for how long and how much.
The Jays do make the most sense to me. They have the prospects that could possibly get Rizzo considering as well. However, I really don’t see it happening.
Think about it people. He is still owed $105 million AFTER this year. So even if you sign him to a 1 year contract for $1 you will still be paying him $105,000,001 dollars for 1 year. Of a 37 y/o pitcher? No thanks!
@Hudson That’s not how it works. The Nats will be on the hook to pay the bulk of that deferred money. Whatever teams trades for him mid-season will only need to pay a pro-rated amount of that sum through 2028.
It would be interesting to see what the Nats prioritize in terms of a return for Max …. prospects, or salary relief in the form of the acquiring team taking on some of the deferred payments. However it’s probably a moot point, the Nats will still be in contention heading into August. NL East is the weakest division in MLB.
@ YankeesBleacherCreature
“With Washington on the hook for successive $15 mil payments through the end of 2028.” It’s right there in the article. That is what ‘deferred payments’ means. That $15 mil per year IS the part that Washington hasn’t paid yet.
That $15 mil per year IS the prorated portion. Or did you think that was all he was making?
I’m aware of what it says. Do you really reasonably expect the Nats to say to suitors that you can have Max for $1 for two months but you will also need to take on $30M of his deferred money?
So wrong.
The majority of that money is deferred from years already played
How can you honestly think an acquiring team would be responsible for 100% of that??
@BeforeMcCourt they can if the Nats and the acquiring team agree to it.
And Ryan Weathers getting sent down still had absolutely nothing to do with getting the extra year of control.
@ YankeesBleacherCreature
Try Googling his contract. It is not $30 million that is deferred, it is $105,575,000. That is $15 million a year every year until 2028.
Now if I were to trade Mike Trout to the Dodgers, who do you think is responsible for paying the remaining money on his contract? The Dodgers or the Angels? If you said Dodgers then you are agreeing with me aren’t you? Legally if a team trades for a player they are trading for all the money left on his contract UNLESS OTHERWISE NEGOTIATED.
Deferred money is never the responsibility of the “new” team… unless the “old” team negotiates out of any portion of it.
I wouldn’t say “never.” Often, not customary but there are other variables in play, like the value of a prospect package.
So you think the next 10 years of baseball NOT YET PLAYED is the same contractually as money deferred from already completed years?
How stupid are you? You can caps lock all you want. You’re still not making a valid point
Keep in mind his deal was signed in 2015. Fifteen million a year for seven years and another fifteen starting next year and continuing until 2028 does not make him underpaid. He may get a three year deal for 75 to 90. Plus he is getting 15 a year for the next seven. I think his family is taken care of. Now if he could only adopt me, I would be happy. I would even walk the dogs.
Deferred payments for prior years played and months played in 2021 are the Nationals responsibility to pay. Team acquiring him would tell Nationals they are responsible for deferred part of 2021 salary. They are paying for remaining value of 2021 after trade deadline with prospects, maybe some cash in-return.
That is because of deferrals which the Nats would absolutely need to cover the majority of that money in any trade. Not a hard concept but the Nats recent performance and Max’s 10/5 probably makes the whole discussion a mute point.
Max is going to have a ton of 3 year offers this offseason if he tests the market imo. I feel similarly about Greinke as well.
Actually, it is the responsibility of whoever the contract is assigned to when the payments are due.
What is fair (or a starting point) is to prorate the amount based on the time he spends with each team.
But, because other players will almost certainly be on the move, the actual amount will depend upon the players being traded and how they negotiate.
@Hudson6 Again, I’m well aware of what his deferred total is. Technically, you’re right if there isn’t language in his contract stating how those deferrals would be handled in the event of a trade. However, any reasonable person would expect that portion to be negotiated in good faith. Making the assumption that the Nats will attempt to pass on the burden of the deferral entirety would be foolish. Even the Nats understand this.
I don’t think comparing apples (Trout) to oranges (Scherzer) helps support your argument.
@BeforeMcCourt it makes sense because the contract he signed was 200+ for 6+ years (i don’t know the exact terms of the deal but i know it is in that range) and yes about 1/2 of that contract was deferred. as far as i know deferred money is a separate entity altogether. from what i’m to understand is that he has already been “paid” for the years with the nats and 1/2 of that yearly rate will be paid later in installments (and possibly with interest) so really an acquiring team only has to pay deferrals on his last year at the pro rated rate of his contract from 7/31 onwards (or when ever he is dealt). i may be completely wrong but what i’ve written above seems to make the most sense
@ BeforeMcCourt
@ YankeesBleacherCreature
google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j…
“For the team acquiring the player, a trade means that the new team acquires the player’s remaining contract.”
So you 2 can call me wrong and call me stupid but I don’t see either of you actually showing any evidence. I OTOH actually looked it up. While there is no direct evidence for MLB, the only professional league that actually shows rules on the subject is the NFL. As you can see from the link, when an NFL player is traded his deferred payments become the responsibility of the new team. So, similar professional sports leagues in the same country do it this way. Do you have any evidence that shows that MLB does it differently?
LOL!!! The Shamrocks don’t even have a park. They play in a minor league facility in Buffalo. Lots of money there for sure!
And I imagine Sherzer is excited about playing in front of Yankee fans and Sox fans in Buffalo. He’ll be chomping at the bit to play for the Shamrocks. LOL!!
AJ Preller: “Hold my beer”
Hell no!
As a Cardinals fan I welcome this news. I don’t want to lose Gorman for a one year rental. There have been rumors of Scherzer returning to Missouri for years. Carpenter and Fowler are coming off the books and you want to keep Nolan believing in the future in St Louis so he doesn’t opt out.
Nolan’s opt-out will come down to money. Not whether he “believes in the future in St. Louis.” Look at previous opt-out decisions for proof of that. Zack Greinke opted out even though the Dodgers had arguably the brightest looking future at the time and Ian Kennedy didn’t opt out even though the Royals were going nowhere, for instance.
As a Cardinals fan you should be well aware that Scherzer, if he were to approve a trade, would only approve a trade to a contender. You have no risk at all of losing Gorman.
Arenado wants a ring and to be with an organization who’s goal is to win now. He obviously doesn’t need to worry about money. The Cardinals are content to walk through 2021 as is. If St. Louis continues to sift through has beens and bottom feeders, Arenado will opt out. Colorado, now St. Louis told him they are ready to win and failed him. Scherzer won’t provide enough help in 2021 for the Cardinals. That’s how bad St. Louis’ situation is right now. The Cardinals gave it a shot, thinking Arenado would be the winning piece, but it didn’t happen. Arenado walks this winter and the Cardinals go with Nolan Gorman. Gorman has promise and will be a cheap option for several years. That’s the Cardinal way of doing things.
@JerryBird Arenado’s opt-out will come down to whether or not he thinks he can beat his remaining contract. That’s it. Whether or not he thinks the Cardinals are a contender will not be considered.
@jimthegoat You could very well be right. My comment was based on what he said publicly before Colorado traded him. He said he wants a ring and a team that wants to win. I have never understood how guys like Arenado would actually want more and more money. Is it plain and simple ego? If things stay as they are, he will get $35M per year for a couple of more years. Is that really not enough just to play baseball? I have grown tired of this over the past several years and am losing interest in baseball on a daily basis. Looking back, I kind of wish I never got interested when I was a boy. Baseball seemed so much better back in the 50s and 60s. They were heroes to us, not crybaby millionaires. I am simply a tired old man who needs to shift interests I guess.
Times are different @Jerry. Most players back then had second jobs over the winter. Some even went to go fight in wars. If you need to take a step back and take a break from a child’s game, no judgement here.
@JerryBird people said Zack Greinke would stay in LA because they were set up well for the future. He opted out and signed with the team that had just drafted 1st overall 6 months prior. People also said that Ian Kennedy would opt-out because the Royals’ window had closed. He stayed.
Nolan’s opt-out decision will come down to money and nothing more. Full stop.
So because Greinke got a ridiculous record setting contract from a desperate team, that means no one ever can prioritize winning over every last penny?
Seriously Jim? You think you can speak for EVERY player ever, because of 2 examples?? Hahahaha. You sound as dumb as Hudson claiming the Nats can slide out of the 105M deferred by trading the last 2 months of Max’s deal
Stop speaking in absolutes. It makes you look really dumb. It takes one guy having left money on the table to disprove your ridiculous stance
I’m right there with you @ Jerrybird.
I grew up up in the 60’s loving this game. But this product now hardly even resembles that. I never remember Mantle straining an oblique. Ever. Imagine how the shift would work against him? Baseball is boring , too stat oriented and full of multi millionaire cry babies. It is truly becoming more and more difficult to watch nightly . If it wasn’t for my fantasy team, I think baseball would have lost me by now.
“ I am simply a tired old man who needs to shift interests I guess..”
.
The pandemic for whatever reason(s) served to curb much of my disproportionate interest and time spent on MLB and pro sports. We don’t much miss each other.
It’s OK to let go a little.
Jerry-I started losing interest 40 years ago when the salaries started escalating.
Then the owners’ started escalating ticket prices at an even higher rate.
Then you had to pay for parking and ridiculous amounts for refreshments and souvenirs.
It was no longer the American pastime but a money maker for all involved.
Plus we get older and lose much of the blush and enthusiasm of youth.
All animals do.
But nothing can replace the memories like attending a first ML game and bringing back the memories of a ten year old watching Bob Veale beat the Mets for a NL record tieing tenth win at the start of a season.
And to that ten year old it is still America’s pastime,and the greatest game ever.
@the outlaw If I grew up with this version of baseball, I “might” like it better, not too sure though. I don’t watch games anymore, its like watching paint dry. I just check the web sites for Cardinal news and scores. Baseball changes often enough that I can sit back and wait for this era to end, assuming I live that long. However, I’ll still chime in and b*tch about it because that’s the only entertainment I get from it. Fun.
You likely will already know, Mantle did bunt for a hit on occasion without the shift being applied. Just smart hitting. Very rare today. Mantle would be considered a contact hitter by today’s standards.
@Mendoza Glory days. Well they’ll pass you by. In the wink of a young girl’s eye, glory days.
Jerry- This is true,but we can still remember them fondly.
@BeforeMcCourt Dude. Go look at previous opt-out decisions. They ALWAYS prioritize every last penny over winning. The only player who has ever opted-out when he wasn’t worth his contract to go play for a contender was AJ Burnett. That’s it. If Nolan were to leave money on the table he would be the extreme exception, not the rule. People were so sure that Greinke would opt in because the Dodgers were good and that Kennedy would opt out because he wanted to play for a contender and they didn’t.
@BeforeMcCourt if a team taking on the whole 105m on deferred salary and what he owed this year no team in there right mind would make that trade. no player and i mean no player is worth 105m+ for 2 months if that was the case his trade value would be a case of skunked beer and a bag of used little league balls. (now that’s not a knock on max he is worth more than that but if you add in the 105m owed he is not worth anything)
@jerrybird i can agree with that sadly i was born to late to catch the 80’s teams but i can agree in the last 10 years the game has gotten boring to watch and it’s not because of length. it because the game has become a 3 outcome game walk, k, or hr, most players have no fundamentals and barely play there positions. me personally i want to see a “small ball” game where every hit, bag you get, pitch thrown, ect… could mean the game. i honestly believe put more action on the bases and field and i would bet you would see an increase in the youth getting into baseball
Keep in mind Jordan Walker should be ready in two or three years. Even if Arenado walks, the Cardinals have an abundance of riches at third base for the next eight or nine years.
Every team has potential superstars in the minors. They have Nolan Gorman as well. Why spend the money for Nolan Arenado? He has proven himself. I just hope some of these Cardinal prospects can prove themselves, too. The odds are never in favor of the unproven, but you gotta give them the chance first. Good luck Walker and Gorman.
If Arenado is looking for a paycut and a ring then he walks. He’s having a nice year but clearly needs Coors for the superstar stats. He’s 5th among all 3B in OPS and provides excellent defense. At 30-31 I doubt he will command more money if he decides to opt out.
Rumors started by wishful thinkers and Cardinals fans.
Correct, Captain Obvious.
Many of the potential playoff teams won’t be willing to pay his current salary, several more won’t be willing to take the salary cap hit, add to that doing well or not? 37yo, he’s not going to get close to 35m annually next year, probably more like 20. All boras has done is make sure the Nats get a comp pick now.
Long story short? Boras being Boras.. Trying to insert himself into the news and make some headlines.
Boras being Boras. Getting money for his client.
Boras doing Boras things.
Nats don’t get a comp pick for Scherzer. You can only receive a QO once in your entire career and Scherzer got one from the Tigers 6.5 years ago.
And even if none of those factors prevents a deal from happening, the small matter of $15M/yr thru 2028 and who pays how much of it surely will kill all possibilities. Even the most desperate GM with super deep pockets is gonna balk at picking up any of that AND giving a 37-year-old an extension.
What about Toronto?
RA Dickey trade 2.0
@solaris602 That’s pretty easy math to figure out and the Nats will be on the hook for the majority of that. His deferred money is actually advantageous to any potential new team he lands on.
@johnsilver, there is no salary cap in baseball.
Doesnt care about winning, only money. Typical Boras client and they wonder whats wrong with professional sports nowadays. It used to be fun to go to a game
Yeah it was really sweet when only owners made money
Owners making a profit is a crime? The game is getting bad on both sides of the fence. Players are money hungry and owners want profit. Sort of how this country is in a sense. Everyone wants higher wages and employers want a profit. When players want more money, ticket prices go up. Similar to gasoline prices when the demand becomes greater than what can be “put out for the consumer”. All in all, baseball is going to fall flat within a few years over “money disputes”. While other leagues like Hockey and Football will thrive on. Only one major sporting league is worst off than baseball. That’s basketball because of those weird contracts and spoiled kids demanding “special privileges”
I like your point of view and agree 100%.
No one said owners making money is a crime. The implication is that if you’re complaining about the players wanting to make money, you’re tacitly approving of the owners wanting to make money. In short, it’s hypocritical to complain about one and not the other.
Why would baseball “fall flat” when fans keep going to games, paying TV sub services to watch games, and purchasing merchandise? Neither will basketball suffer. Players are assets and owners will do their best to fulfill their demands to acquire them. They have every right to ask for any “special privileges” and opt-out clauses. It’s business like you said and rich people don’t get rich by making dumb decisions.
@YankeesBleacherCreature it’s not hard to see them falling flat. You have the Bargain Agreement expiring soon and one thing the owners and MLBPA can’t agree on is “money”. It will go down like the 1993-94 strike and will cause baseball to “fall flat”. After that strike, it took 10 years before baseball was relevant again. After McGuire and Sosa break the single season record for HRs, did people start watching a bit more. When Bonds became the “new home run king”, did baseball hit a peak.
Now with the new CBA coming and both sides are obviously going to bulk at any agreement. One side will try to have DH and higher salaries while one side will want to have a “salary cap” and more freedoms when it comes to long term contracts that aren’t meeting their value. Pujols is prime example of long term contract and not fulfilling it completely. Owners will want “free ruins” over such matters. Players won’t agree and who would when you make 1/4 of a billion dollars
@PiratesFan1981 When is money never the issue when two parties are at the negotiating table? I personally feel that there is simply too much at stake for either side to not make concessions leading to another strike this time.
Pujols is absolutely fulfilling his contractual obligations. He may not be performing up to his salary level but he definitely stays prepared and shows up for work. It’s been pretty much understood that long-term deals only work out during the first few years while owners continue to hand them out because it’s remains profitable for them to do so. That’s not a talking point at the next CBA meetings. The overall numbers thus far across baseball don’t point towards year-over-year revenue decline.
YBC-You are assuming that rational people are negotiating.That is yet to be determined.
1981-No One had a gun to Moreno’s head.The new agreement should in no way try to legislate against owners making bad decisions.
Stop virtue signaling.
Agents have always tried to get their clients the most money….
Except Acuña and Albies’ agents
Those are examples of unethical agents putting their own self interests above a clients
The one thing you can’t accuse Boras of doing is not having his clients interests at the top of his priority list
Acuna and albies traded a portion of their playing careers for some financial security and being able to play on the same team. They wanted to stay together and wanted the guaranteed contract in case they got hurt early on. If they had gotten hurt they still had life changing money and that security appeals to some.
I agree with you breck.The agents were doing the players bidding.The two young men were smart enough to know that their contracts set them up for life.What happens if they get hurt like Pedroia did,or like Polanco and become a bad player.If they become fine players they will have a chance to make much more.Maybe getting every last penny was not their priority.Good for them.
These were hardly unethical agents.That reputation would put them out of business.They work for the players and not the other way around.Seems to me that anyone who thinks differently is out for every last penny.
one thing i can say about boris weather you love him or hate him, is that he gets his clients the most money he can. yes there have been signings that didn’t pan out how he liked but as fans we only get to see one side of the process, none of us are in boris’ office listening to the conversation with his clients. at the end of the day boris just like any other good agent works for there client and if the client doesn’t like a deal can’t force them to take it.
If he were to get traded, I don’t understand why the team acquiring him would be on he hook for any of the $105M in deferred money The Nationals owe him. Once the season is over and his contract ends, The Nationals are going to owe him this amount anyway, Unless that is the deal-breaker for The Nationals to make the trade, just does not make sense.
The more deferred $ that an acquiring would be willing to pay, the less in cost of prospects they would have to pay.
That would be my guess.
ok stupid question time, can a team picking up a player also pick up deferred money owed to him in a trade. this kinda sounds like a gray area with the cbt, or is “handing over deferred money” one of them handshake agreements and ptbl deals.
It’s not a stupid question although I’m not quite sure what you’re asking. MLB have mechanisms in place where it disallows teams to blatantly manipulate the CBT. Anytime even $1 exchanges hands between teams, it’s subject to league approval.
I’m not sure what the CBT says but the above article gives it as an option.
It’s a part of the salary that hasn’t been paid so I could see the argument for allowing it.
The deferred money is part of the original contract. When you trade for a player you take on all remaining salary obligations unless otherwise stated in the trade.
Bobby Bonilla got traded and the Mets kept his deferred $ payments.
So there’s at least precedent for it.
Ah, the legendary Bobby Bonilla deferment story. Classic!
It’s like Hudson is 100% wrong
@yc ok i see now that i worded my question wrong and that’s on me lol. anyhow let’s say max gets traded and he has deferred salary is the new team responsible for the deferred salary as well or is that still paid by the nats in this case. also can you trade deferred money for let’s say for a “lotto ticket” to the team acquiring max, i know players can sell there deferred money rights to someone else at least you used to. i hope that clears things up with my original question.
Scherzer said on the Chris Rose Rotation podcast weeks ago that he wouldn’t waive his no trade. Not new news to me lol.
Who wants to give up specs and then pay him what he wants. Gonna limit the teams interested
Another example of this agent potentially effecting the way teams operate.
Well I guess Max really doesn’t want to get traded. This is like a shuttle launch being no-go’d
Just curious…
Who would you rank as the 5 best pitchers in the last 10 years?
Off the the top of my head, without looking up stats, and not in a particular order
Scherzer
Kershaw
Verlander
Degrom
Greinke
Good list but I’d think Cole over greinke. Greinke just outside top 5 but I also don’t have the stats in front of me.
Yeah, assuming we’re just talking about regular season, I’d agree. You could also maybe coin flip between deGrom and Sale.
Sale in last 10 years was better than both Cole and Greinke.
Look at the actual last 10 seasons, not just the last 3…. Greinke has been significantly better than Cole over the long haul. I think the op had the 5 right.
Cole is severely overpaid. The 9 years is gonna bite the Yankees on the ace. I am still going that deal is jason Giambi 2.0. When the Yankees went on a 7 year no WS drought not its been nearly 11 years since their last. Pitchers just shouldn’t get more than 5-6 year deals. And the 6th would have to be an option year or buyout.
I would give Cole 10 years WAY before I would give a slugger five
I wouldn’t give Cole more than 5. He’s not worth it. Surprising the Yankees didn’t trade for him when he was with the Pirates. Their farm system isn’t that great though. And the Pirates didn’t get much from Houston either though. Since they traded Musgrove already since that trade.
Billy-The rap on the Pirates GM could have been that he traded Cole a half year too soon and did not get full value.Cole was not particularly happy in Pittsburgh,and pitched much better when the Pirates were a very good versus an average team.He also had a couple of relatively minor injuries his last couple of years.NH wanted to make sure that he got substantial value back in case Cole came up lame or needed TJS.In that case the Pirates would have received next to nothing for a ML number one overall draft choice.
Cashman could have had another WS title if he would have parted with two young unestablished players in Andujar and Frazier.
Sometimes it is what GM’s don’t do that is even more important than what they do.
They did get several good minor league players from the Padres for one of the better pitchers in the game today.We will see how that turns out.
Greinke is absolutely a top 5 pitcher of the last 10 years. Too much elite sample slize.
karldanger Cole doesn’t have the sample size of pitching at an elite level to be a top 5 pitcher of the last 10 years. The guys on his list’s track records blow Cole’s out of the water. Cole became an ace a bit too late to make it on that list.
agree with your addition to his list
Chris Sale belongs if statistics involving ratios and percentages come in to play. I looked him up a couple years ago and his numbers are historic. Check it out.
3 of those guys, plus Cole, have legit shots at 300 wins, Scherzer, maybe
Order of liklihood IMO:
1) Verlander (that’s why he’ll keep pitching as long as necessary)
2) Greinke (just because that’s the kind of thing Greinke does, to the surprise of everybody. You look up one day and dude has 315 wins, throwing between 42 and 71 mph)
3) Cole – he’s got the time, the contract, a winning team behind him – see Randy Johnson’s road map)
4) Kershaw – doubt he can start the 30 games a year necessary to get there
5) Scherzer – not going to be outdone by Verlander, might make it on sheer stubborness
Absolutely no one cares about pitcher wins.
… well… Except Michael Wilbon. But it absolutely baffles me that that guy gets paid to have an opinion.
Hi Dude!
3 of those guys, plus Cole, have legit shots at 300 wins, Scherzer, maybe
Order of liklihood IMO:
1) Verlander (that’s why he’ll keep pitching as long as necessary)
2) Greinke (just because that’s the kind of thing Greinke does, to the surprise of everybody. You look up one day and dude has 315 wins, throwing between 42 and 71 mph)
3) Cole – he’s got the time, the contract, a winning team behind him – see Randy Johnson’s road map)
4) Kershaw – doubt he can start the 30 games a year necessary to get there
5) Scherzer – not going to be outdone by Verlander, might make it on sheer stubborness
Uh oh, b00mer alert! B00mer alert guys!
My dear little friend, I’m not sure you’re following my argument as closely as it deserves, possibly from a lack of intellectual firepower, but be that as it may, what I’m trying to say is 3 of those guys, plus Cole, have legit shots at 300 wins, Scherzer, maybe
Order of liklihood IMO:
1) Verlander (that’s why he’ll keep pitching as long as necessary)
2) Greinke (just because that’s the kind of thing Greinke does, to the surprise of everybody. You look up one day and dude has 315 wins, throwing between 42 and 71 mph)
3) Cole – he’s got the time, the contract, a winning team behind him – see Randy Johnson’s road map)
4) Kershaw – doubt he can start the 30 games a year necessary to get there
5) Scherzer – not going to be outdone by Verlander, might make it on sheer stubborness
I’m not your friend, buddy!
of course you are, little fellow!
Nuanced- The chances of any reaching 300 wins are small to medium.I used 2020 and 2021 results as one year,and averaged the number of annual wins for each,then multiplied that by the number of years that they have through age 41.
I came up with the following numbers-
Kershaw 295
Verlander 268
Cole 258
Greinke 253
Scherzer 246
This calculation does take into account the lower annual wins early in their career,but assumes that they will stay healthy and pitch through the age of 41.
At first I thought that you were clearly off the mark,but the way that you worded your post gives wiggle room.All of these guys actually do have a chance.It depends on how good they stay and how good the team that they play on is,and whether or not they remain healthy in their later years.
For someone who is supposedly progressive and open-minded about the W stat, there’s irony that you want to quickly put someone in box based on a few comments they’ve made which you disagree with. “Boomer alert”? This isn’t high school anymore where you make fun of the math club kids walking down the hallway.
@YankeesBleacherCreature oh if there is one thing I’m not open-minded about, it’s the pitcher win stat. And this Nuanced Jamesian guy put himself in a box right there with stymeedone and BobGibsonFan.
@Nuanced Jamesian looks like you’ve never watched South Park. How like a b00mer.
I agree with Jim.Wins are not important.I think that all teams should automatically finish 81-81 and everyone gets a ribbon and enters the playoffs.
Thanks Mendoza – having watched GREAT pitchers for a long time, what they have in common, I think, is that they are very, very, intelligent, and smart about their arms, also – obviously, each of these guys WANTS it, big time. Verlander has said many times that he wants to pitch well into his forties, so there’s that; also, except for Cole who’ll make some changes eventually, they’re more interested in easy outs, and PITCHING, than just blowing everybody away; the Christy Mathewson method can add YEARS to a career.
LOL
Nuance- You’re more than welcome.
I have found relatively few people who appreciate nuance,let alone Christy Mathewson.
I sometimes read extensive posts too fast,and must read them again because I miss or assume things.
The proof is in the pudding,which I had to assess here.
And I agree with your assessment on great pitchers.All four except the youngster Cole are future HoF’s,and Cole will be one if continues and stays healthy.
Reading posts is much like listening to people- one must work at it to see the overall picture.
I didn’t know watching South Park was a prerequisite or right-of-passage to being cool and accepted by your generation. Do they also have to be Logan Paul subscribers? Nuanced strikes me more of a Beavis and Butthead and Itchy & Scratchy type guy.
He strikes me more as Beavis
I do, so.
So basically kershaw is the only one with even an outside shot
Being off by 30+ wins isn’t “close” when most of those other guys are already in their upper 30s
Pitcher wins only matter when you look back on the careers of guys who played in the pre-neutered era.
NOBODY is dissing Kershaw IN ANY WAY in this discussion. Sheesh.
Standard ops for people who are progressive is to get their way by putting people who disagree in a box, for thought crimes. Or a gulag.
Nuanced-I call those people by their correct name.
Regressives.
McCourt-But Nuanced could be correct if these pitchers stay healthy and pitch into their 40’s.You and I agree that that is a big “ if”,but I was using anywhere from 12.5 to 14 Wins per year as the average.It will be close for all if they can win 17-18 games per year and play that long.
I,like I think you,thought that the day of the 300 game winner was long gone.But maybe not.
These guys may be that historically great.
@ybc thanks for that tbh i miss bevies and butthead (thanks to that show i discovered tool which became one of my favorite bands) itchy & scratchy we’re good too but you forgot about ren & stempy
Kershaw has made all his starts the last 2 years and 29 in 2019
He’s averaged 3-5 missed starts from 17-19
There’s no reason other than his early career crap run support to think he can’t get to 300 wins, any more so than any other active pitcher. He has the highest or 2nd highest winning percentage ever for SP in the history of baseball. Dude knows how to win
Your criticism is hilarious and honestly just wishful
Who cares if he gets to 300 wins? Heck, who cares if ANYONE gets to 300 wins? I’ll bet you that Kershaw doesn’t.
“WE WILL BURY YOU WE WILL BURY YOU” he screams as his New Order collapses over his bunker and Kershaw signs a one-year deal with the Mexico City Cartels of the Greater Texas League to secure the final 3 wins necessary to get to 400.
LOL
McCourt-I agree with you that Kershaw has the best chance.It seemed like Nuanced thought that he had the least chance in his initial post.
I think that we can all agree,though,that these four older pitchers are the cream of the crop among current pitchers as far as longevity and greatness is concerned.
Boras gonna Boras
It wouldn’t be more than a 2 year extension. Not worth it.
eh, it sorta makes sense.
boras wants more money, of course, but since all of max’s salary is deferred (by the trade deadline, all of the money owed to max for final 2 months of the season isn’t due till 2028), would easily allow a talent rich but cash “poor” team (like tampa) to offer a crazy deal, then just letting max walk after the season (since there’s zero chance those teams would even begin to talk a deal with him).
get yourself paid, just make as much of it as possible a signing bonus, so you still get cash even if there is a strike.
The Nats are back in contention so it’s doubtful Scherzer gets traded anyway. Boras woke up today and decided he needed attention so he came out with this
I might be in the minority on this, but Boras has every right to look for a sweetener, given Scherzer’s contract status. Scherzer is going to get tagged with a QO, so a trade might be worthwhile anyway (to be free of it) but he might as well use the leverage he has.
@mik156 I believe the Tigers already offered him so he can’t be offered one again for his career. Also, if a player gets traded mid-season, he’s ineligible to receive one as well. He’ll need to be with a team an entire season.
I think you are correct about the pick. As to midseason trade causing loss of QO, yes, I was trying to say that, but poor drafting in the response.
Scherzer can’t be tagged with a QO. You can only get tagged with a QO once in your entire career and the Tigers already did that to him.
The question: “The reality of it is (a trade) is going to have to lead to something,”
The answer: ” moving to a team that will make the playoffs”
Exactly! And why would he actively need an extension unless he knows he’s about to get injured? It’s pretty certain that teams will be willing to pay him this coming winter. Especially when most of the other pitchers will come with QO’s attached and Scherzer won’t.
maybe he just wants that security if he is going to move (and possibly for the last time in his career) he wants it to be with a team that has a good shot of contending, if he doesn’t get that just stay put finish the season, especially since the nats still have a good chance of winning the east because no one in that division has really done anything or started to separate themselves. then at seasons end he can pick his team that he wants to go to
He’s going to get that security either way. He doesn’t need an extension. He’s one of the premier starters in MLB, not some unproven guy with everything to gain by locking in that money RIGHT NOW. And he doesn’t need to sign an extension to get traded to a contender.
And as has been said before. If he is open to an extension the Nats won’t trade him, they will be the ones that extend him.
Needing and wanting are two very different things. Nobody *needs* an iPhone 12 or a 75″ OLED TV or a $100k car. No, Scherzer doesn’t need anymore but he’s free to express his desires and if someone is willing to give him that, more power to him. He’s earned his 10-and-5 rights as many other players have so he rightfully can dicatate which team he may allow a trade to along with conditions for a contract extension. Plenty of people in the corporate world receive employment contracts for 1-3 years at new jobs. When that time is about expire, they’re free to negotiate with his/her boss a raise, perks, and new job responsibilites in a new contract. What Scherzer expressed isn’t so different. He’s just laying it out there for potential suitors for his talent and may actually be saving other teams some time and effort.
@YankeesBleacherCreature the difference is Scherzer is going to get that “iPhone 12 or a 75″ OLED TV or a $100k car” either way and probably then some if he waits out FA. The team has more to gain from extending him than he does. Unless he’s expecting an overpay but the whole purpose of extending a guy is to not have to overpay him.
here is a strange thought maybe max is willing to give up all the rewards and what not in fa for having 99% certainty that he is playing in a city him and his family can settle in and enjoy. rather than possibly picking from a handful of options that he (and family) don’t like. also with the possibility of a strike next season wouldn’t blame the man for wanting to be locked up. let’s be honest yes max is a bada$$ but he is 37 and if there is a strike next year and bb resumes in 23 he is going to be 38/9 with a year of no play, a lot of teams are going to be hesitant to give him a multi year deal close to 40
“… for having 99% certainty that he is playing in a city him and his family can settle in and enjoy.”
Going to FA wouldn’t stop him from doing any of that and probably means he gets more $ from it. Do you really think every team that is currently interested is going to suddenly change their mind the moment the trade deadline passes?
if there is a work stoppage i definitely see teams thinking twice, yes the man is a beast and would love to see him pitch for my birds. let’s look at the facts he is 37 and father time is undefeated. look at farve or manning (yes i know it’s a different sport) in the last 2 years of there careers year one they had an mvp type season the next year they fell off a cliff. so my point is still valid, he just like anyone else who is in touch with reality knows, signing anyone over 35 is a huge risk regardless if there hof caliber.
Lol. Scherzer will be fine in FA. The usual rules don’t apply to guys like him. And if they did no one would be interested in trading for him in the first place.
Moreno like to hand out terrible contracts to Boras clients. Add mad max to the list. At least this time it would be a good pitcher
If there is any team that could use a guy like Scherzer, it’s definitely the Angels.
If Arte signed Max, I’d be worried about Murphy’s law kicking in.
If Arte signed Max,Johnston’s Law would kick in.
Johnston’s Law-Murphy was an optimist.
Murphy’s Second Law – I never did like Johnston…
if laa signs max are they gonna give him a coupon for free tjs.
Seattle has the flexibility and needs an ace to hold down the spot for a few years until the kids are ready.
Somebody besides the Nationals: “Come pitch for us?”
Scherzer: “I’m not waving my no-trade.”
“Would you waive it for $600 million for 3 years?”
“Well… yeah…”
“Okay. We’ve determined you would waive your no-trade. Let’s talk price.”
The chances of Scherzer being traded now are slim. Trade compensation and a Boras extension? That took more than a few teams out of the trade picture.
Too bad, I had a distant unrealistic hope that the BlueJays would take a shot at him.
I bet he resigns with the Nats.
Two year extension plus option. Get it done Toronto.
Catfish Hunter – 29
Tommy John – 36
Luis Tiant – 38
Phil Niekro – 45
Joe Niekro – 41
Rick Rhoden – 34
John Candelaria – 34
Scott Sanderson – 34
Jimmy Key – 32
David Cone – 32
Kenny Rogers – 31
Dwight Gooden – 31
David Wells – 34
Roger Clemens – 36
Mike Mussina – 32
Kevin Brown – 39
Randy Johnson – 41
C.C. Sabathia – 28
A.J. Burnett – 32
Bartolo Colon – 38
Hiroki Kuroda – 37
Masahiro Tanaka – 25
J.A. Happ – 35
Gerrit Cole – 29
Corey Kluber – 35
Re: the Nationals ‘vaulting’ into second place in the NL East.
Kinda like a pedestrian ‘vaulting’ over a curb to reach a sidewalk.
People whiff on the fact he’s not doing this out of greed-it’s about precedent.
I must say that I am surprised that with the vast baseball knowledge here on this site; NO ONE is addressing the elephant in the room.
There will be a lockout or strike this offseason. And with MLBs unilateral implementation of last year’s 60 game season, and the now ridiculous enforcement of the “foreign substance” rule, the MLBP is ready for a fight.
It would malpractice on the part of Boras to have Max waive his 10/5 rights and the chance at a Qualifying Offer for what…… a chance to pitch in the postseason? Been there, done that.
Imagine you work for Company A. Would you quit and go work for Company B as a Temporary worker ( 3 months) for no raise in pay? But with Company B, you get to work the holiday season and maybe Christmas if the company does well ?
There is no chance at a qualifying offer. Max isn’t allowed to receive one because he already received one the first time he went free agency. It’s not “Frowned upon to give a guy a QO after he’s already received one once” or “They get hit with cash penalties for QO’ing a guy who already received one once.” It’s “They literally do not have the ability to QO Scherzer.”
Verlander is a nice comp…. FOR TEAMS!!! Dude ended up with TJ surgery LMFAO
Extension?
How long?
1 year?
Doable.
2 years?
Possible.
3+ years?
Pass.
l have a good feeling he’ll be wearing the Yankee uniform by the end of next month to the end of next year.
Can almost guarantee a guy like Dominguez would be going to Washington if that happens.
Nice to see Max is the kind of guy who cares about people other than himself. Success can really do crazy things to an ego
Scherzer has a contractual right. If he enjoys playing in DC and doesn’t want to uproot himself and his family.. it makes perfect sense not to waive that no trade right, unless there is a compelling reason.
If there’s any pitcher today who might have a chance of coming anywhere near matching Nolan Ryan’s performance beyond age 37, I think it would be Scherzer.
Scherzer is by far the best pitcher available on market and This actually increases his value. Many elite pitchers play til 40 and Scherzer is still elite today. When Reds acquired Sonny Gray from yanks – their compensation package increased since Gray agreed to extension.
Cubs are good fit
Boston or white sox might be ws favs if they get him.
Can’t count Houston out
SF and Toronto would also be in mix
Nats will be in for a nice haul if they can pull something off
And another thing. If Scherzer were open to an extension the Nats wouldn’t trade him they would be the ones that extend him. The only reason they would trade him in the first place is because they can’t get an extension done.
If nats are out of it and can land a top prospect out of blue Jays organization- they’d be mad not to trade him.
The fact that a Boras client is trying to forego free agency is very telling about where the players may see things going when the CBA expires this winter. As a soon to be 37 year old entering free agency i think Scherzer doesn’t want to be on the open market til February or March of next year (or longer if there is a work stoppage/signing freeze). This is a way to either force a team to offer him something at the deadline or perhaps entice Washington to try to sign him to a new deal instead of trading him
Some teams might view this as a good thing. I wouldn’t mind seeing the Cardinals spend the money and take a little gamble on a two year extension. After the initial financial constraints most teams haven’t been afraid to spend money except the Cardinals who have a payroll well south of their norm with a few big bad contracts coming off the books this offseason. Thirty seven or not hes one of the best and if his performance declines I don’t expect it to be quick or drastic. All depends on player return I actually prefer to a sign in trade vs a rental for the Cardinals who really aren’t a threat with him or out him in 2021.
Assuming Arenado doesn’t opt out (given the uncertain climate with the CBA expiring i would think he wouldn’t) the Cardinals are going to be on the hook for his salary moving forward. The only reason they ate Fowler’s contract is because the Rockies were paying Nolan this season. Cardinals are probably not looking to spend $25-30 million per year which is likely what Scherzer will look for
boras doesnt say how long of an extension scherzer is looking for. How about a 1 year extension with a option for 2023? Thats an extension.
So will Max be a Yankee or Dodger ?
I could see the Blue Jays or Padres
Yawn, shut up Boras
“Max and I have never discussed the subject.”
Ok then.
Giants? If the Giants want to go the distance, do they not need a proven stud?
I hope the Illich’s open up the checkbooks this offseason and get either Verlander or Scherzer. I don’t care if we score 2 runs a game, they’ll be in playoff contention next year with a rotation of Mize, Skubal, Manning and Scherzer or Verlander. Hell, why not both!!!
Changing username to delusional Tigers fan.
Could be wrong but I have to believe that, for any outstanding salary commitments to Max Scherzer, the Nats and the acquiring team may divide them up however they see fit.