We’re just days into the league’s on-the-fly implementation of testing pitchers for foreign substance usage, and the checks have predictably led to some bizarre scenes. A’s reliever Sergio Romo completely removing his belt and dropping his pants will elicit some laughs, but neither the Nationals nor the Phillies found much humor in the new rules yesterday when Philadelphia skipper Joe Girardi called for a check on Washington ace Max Scherzer with a runner on first base in the fourth inning (video link via MLB.com).
An incredulous Scherzer complied, but both he and Nats skipper Davey Martinez were visibly livid with Girardi after the umpiring crew gave us the jarring visual of running a hand through Scherzer’s hair before ultimately clearing him.
Scherzer, who’d already been checked after the first and third innings Tuesday, could visibly be seen yelling, “I’ve got sweat!” to Girardi as he ran his hand through his hair and returned to the mound. He escaped the inning unscathed, went on to complete five frames in his return from the IL and ultimately stared Girardi down as he walked off the field for the last time.
Further fireworks ensued. Girardi was tossed from the game after walking onto the field and challenging the opposing dugout. While some initially believed he was beckoning toward Scherzer, Jomboy astutely points out in a video breakdown that Nats hitting coach Kevin Long, who previously coached under Girardi in New York, was the clear target after lobbing some choice expletives toward his former skipper.
Girardi told reporters after the game that he had all the respect in the world for Scherzer’s career, calling him a future Hall of Famer. However, he also claimed (via Jim Salisbury of NBC Sports Philadelphia) that in more than a decade of watching the three-time Cy Young winner: “I’ve never seen him wipe his head like he was doing tonight. Ever.”
While Girardi insists that he wasn’t “playing games” to disrupt Scherzer’s rhythm on the mound, that defense isn’t flying with the Nationals. Washington general manager Mike Rizzo pulled no punches this morning when calling out Girardi during a weekly radio appearance.
“It’s embarrassing for Girardi,” Rizzo said on 106.7 The Fan (link with audio). “It’s embarrassing for the Phillies. Was he playing games? Of course he was. … He’s a con artist. He’s been doing that for years on TV. … I love Joe Girardi. I’ve seen him play since he was in high school in Peoria, Illinois — scouted him at Northwestern. I know him well. But I know him well.”
Rizzo is hardly the only one taking notice around the league. Fellow multi-time Cy Young winner Clayton Kershaw, in his own postgame media session, went out of his way to express bewilderment toward Girardi despite not initially being asked about it (video link via SportsNet LA).
“I will say this,” Kershaw began. “You know how Girardi checked Scherzer, or called him out? I think there should be a punishment if they don’t catch anything on the guy. Scherzer is one of the best pitchers of our generation. To see him get checked … and mess up his rhythm, you better find something if you’re going to call him out like that. Maybe there should be a punishment if a manager checks a guy and there isn’t anything.”
Asked specifically whether managers could deliberately call for a check to disrupt a pitcher, Kershaw acknowledged it as a “good technique” for managers to use. He suggested that perhaps a failed substance check should lead to a team losing a replay challenge to prevent such gamesmanship.
“You get going in a rhythm, and maybe you have a guy on base, and they check you?” Kershaw continued. “It throws you off. It’s something that you’re not used to. … I think there should be some repercussions for managers just doing that on a whim like that, because if you call somebody out — anybody — but [especially] somebody of Max Scherzer’s caliber and you don’t find anything? I think that looks pretty bad on [Girardi’s] part.”
As for Scherzer himself, he expressed frustration regarding not only being called out by Girardi but by the situation in general. The repeated manner in which he ran his hand through his hair, he explained postgame, was in order to get some type of moisture to mix with the rosin he was using. (Pitchers are permitted to either lick their fingers or use sweat in conjunction with rosin under MLB’s current policy.)
“I got sick of licking my fingers and tasting rosin the whole night,” Scherzer explained postgame (video link via MLB.com). “I couldn’t even get sweat from the back of my head because it wasn’t a warm night. The only part that was sweaty on me was my hair, so I had to take off my hat to be able to try to get some moisture on my hand to mix with the rosin.”
Scherzer chuckled as he added that he’d be “an absolute fool” to use any kind of substance on a night when the focus on such usage would be at an all-time high. He further lamented the fact that in the at-bat prior to Girardi calling him out, he’d nearly hit Alec Bohm in the head with a 95 mph fastball that sailed out of his hand due to lack of grip — a common concern we’ve seen expressed both by pitchers and by position players.
Ultimately, Scherzer shifted the focus to commissioner Rob Manfred: “These are Manfred rules — go ask him what he wants to do with this. I’ve said enough.”
Given the ultra-competitive nature of managers and pitchers throughout the league, the stakes that will be on the line as the season progresses and the rather haphazard implementation of the new substance-check policy, it’s likely that Manfred will indeed need to address the issue in a public fashion sooner than later. The Scherzer/Girardi saga may have been the first dust-up but surely won’t be the last.
“gamesmanship….? So it begins….
What too many people seem to be missing is that it was out of the ordinary behavior by Scherzer.
The policy is that a manager needs to ask the umps, then explain and justify why there could be suspicion. THE UMPS CAN DECLINE A MANAGER REQUEST IF THEY, THE UMPS, DISAGREE THAT THERE IS EVIDENCE OF SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOR.
Clearly here the umpires agreed that Max was behaving differently than usual – thus the check.
Also, the “offensive” check was a THIRD examination. Starting Pitchers have been told they will get checked twice. So, after the second check, a pitcher *could* expect they’re in the clear. What’s more, it wasn’t until after the two checks that Scherzer started the whole abnormal hair behavior.
Girardi was reasonable, and the nats/max are just being pissy.
Coming out of the dugout acting like you tryna fight a dude half your age is super reasonable. If I’m Davey Martinez, I’m checking his pitchers every inning for the rest of the series.
And the umpires ejected Girardi for his behavior.
I’m unsure why people think that because Girardi was a massive buffoon, that somehow, Scherzer is just the 100% innocent victim here.
Both were being really dumb.
Girardi wasn’t yelling at Max. He was yelling at Kevin Long who cursed Girardi out. They worked together on the Yankees for years. Watch the Jomboy breakdown. Still idiotic, but somehow better in my mind than a manager trying to fight a player.
Steve, don’t entirely excuse the behavior of the Nats coaches either based on what was reportedly going on.
Girardi was wrong for leaving the dugout and got ejected for that. Had he stayed on the steps I believe the umps would’ve warned both sides and that would be that.
Man.
I miss Joe G.
You can have him back. Haha.
Unfortunately, Joe G was a little too disobedient for Cash’s preference, @Von.
JG was awful. I never wanted him to leave the NYY, and I am a RS fan. Since 1995, they missed the playoffs 4x.. All four were under Girardi. In the 6 years before JG, they averaged 98.5 wins. In the two years after JG, they averaged 101.5 wins.
In Joe’s reign, they averaged 91 wins.
Those ’12-16 clubs were pretty weak despite the high payrolls. Girardi got as much out of those clubs as anyone could have.
Here is what I see.
With the – more or less – exact same guys the Yanks were an above average defensive team. Under Boone we are one of the worst.
Same players!
& the Yanks didn’t do all that dumb stuff on the bases either. Joe G’s teams capitalized on other teams miscues. Under Boone, we crank miscues out like it’s our job.
I feel like the Yanks played harder too. Although that’s more subjective.
It’s a good thing you wrote so much of this in caps. Clearly, without doing that, nobody would have noticed…
When people type in excessive caps, I try to visualize Will Ferrell explaining to Tina Fey about his Voice Immodulation Syndrome.
Truly underrated skit.
But what others are missing is now that this new policy is in place, you’re going to see pitchers do more unusual and out of character things to get a better grip on the ball. That’s something managers are going to have to take into account. I agree with Kershaw, that they should have like 1 pitcher check challenge in addition to the two replay challenges but if the pitcher has nothing on him, managers lose a replay challenge.
What’s more, it wasn’t until after the two checks that Scherzer started the whole abnormal hair behavior.
=========================================================================
The logic is counterintuitive. If Scherzer didn’t start “the whole abnormal hair behavior.’, then there was no rationale for checking him before he did so. Further, if you only have two checks, then wasting the two checks gives license to the pitcher to do anything he wants.
This feels more like Girardi watching his managerial career slipping away. He’s spent his last 8 years managing some of the most expensive teams in baseball, and isbarely over .500.
Joe- definition: “counterintuitive – contrary to intuition or to common-sense expectation (but often nonetheless true)”
Not really sure how that applies to the logic presented, but whatever flits your boat.
There also aren’t “only” two checks. It’s a minimum of two checks, plus 1) anytime the umpire decides there are grounds to conduct additional check(s) at the umpires own initiative, or, 2) if a manager articulates evidence that seems plausible that actions could reasonably be interpreted as illegally doctoring the ball/applying illegal grip agents and the umpire agrees that there is a reasonable belief that same could be occurring, then a courtesy check is performed just like it always has been. (Provided, of course, that it isn’t in the middle of an AB.)
You could in theory have 2 dozen checks or more in a game if all the guys on both staffs were acting particularly shady.
The rationale for checking scherzer prior to his hair rubbing was that mlb said “there shall be 2 checks, so let it be written, so let it be done.” So the umps did it. I agree that some pitchers may think, oh, they did the minimum 2 checks, I’m clear from here on. That makes the umpires following up on girardi’s request so important.
Let’s forget it was scherzer. If this was Glasnow, an admitted cheater, would there be the same uproar? How much is focused on who it was rather than the rule as it’s written and the behaviors leading up to it? The fact is the guy changed what he was doing, a manager saw a chance to ensure things were on the up and up, and asked it be checked. The umpire agreed, otherwise wouldn’t have gone to the mound. If nothing else it’s a bigger picture shot across the bow that we will keep checking you.
Scherzer acted a drama queen, could’ve kept his cool and simply said to the umps “hey guys, I’m just going to my hair because it’s the only place for sweat to help the rosin. *tilts head* want to check?” That would’ve been professional, the umps are just doing their job. Plenty of other pitchers have complied with checks without becoming drama queens.
Likewise, a pox on the Nats coaches for their hollering and taunting, and on girardi for responding to the bait and leaving the dugout. Those actions also distract from the issue… and maybe that was the intent from WAS.
Why are we mistaking passivity and rote compliance for professionalism?
Yeah, this isn’t gamesmanship. It’s stupidity, and it begins and ends with Manfred.
so the video clips of all this going down is incredible…also, don’t forget Max is one of the heads of the players union. I would guess 90% this was max being pissed-with 10% of it being showmanship as a union rep to prepare for the next negotiation battle.
Do not ever use a Jomboy post for anything. That guy is a giant, hypocritical, tool
Yes, but Girardi is also a tool.
I agree completely
Why do you say that?
Always link to Jomboy.
Jomboy is a national treasure.
Jomboy admitted to lying, or at least to being fooled by a Reddit article, and that lie was then spewed by thousands of people due to him. He can be a fanboy, nothing more.
I, too, think nobody can ever make a mistake ever
My favorite was him recently saying Judge is a standup guy for sticking up for Cole, but not affording the same compliment for Correa when he did the same thing for Altuve.
Good heavens, he was fooled by a Reddit article! Move along, child.
Agreed. He is the worst. He just posts conspiracy theories and really boring, unfunny breakdowns. I say this as an Orioles fan with no skin in the game.
Foolish Baseball is better!
@markakis
Foolish Baseball is an amazing channel. More people should know about. What’s funny is people always accuse him for being a Jomboy clone (how?) And Bailey has worked with them several times and always posts clips of them working together to shut people up.
There’s a new guy called “Baseball Doesn’t Exist” making some interesting videos and a channel that has been around that doesn’t seem to be getting more subscribers called “Stark Raving Sports (SRS)” that makes great compilations that are usually something positive about a year of a team or player.
Historically I haven’t been the biggest jomboy fan but this video and the one on Votto’s ejection a couple days ago are hilarious. The voice over of the lady in the front row “what’s going on out there?” about made me spit out my coffee.
Baseball people are so much fun.
Sounds like you are the giant, hypocritical tool. Jomboy is the man. Haters gonna hate! Stay mad that he exposed your team probably.
Pretty sure Jomboy is just acting as an extension of anti-Yankee sentiment with some of these takes.
His videos are really unique &…well, fun.
Ya know?
All teams should have an equivalent.
What the hell is a jomboy? Is that a smaller walkman?
Or maybe it’s the fact he is almost the sole reason thousands of people believe something that is false… crazy what irresponsible speculating may do to ones reputation.
Nothing says being the man like throwing a bunch of BS at a wall and hoping some of it sticks. Keep it up pinstripes, one day you’ll catch on to what is going on.
What did he post from Reddit that was incorrect that got a bunch of people to believe a lie? I’ve been one of his earliest subscribers and don’t recall this happening. I am seriously asking, not trying to defend him or start a fight.
100% disagree
Who is Jomboy?
Jomboy is just pure entertainment. Nothing more. I can’t imagine being vehemently against him. It’s just fun, chill out.
IMO, the opposing manager should not be allowed to ask for a check. Easiest way to take the gamesmanship out of the equation is to put this on the umps and umps only. The checks are frequent enough to begin with.
I’d say if the manager requests a check and the player is clean, there is a big fine and suspension for said manager.
I fine or suspension? Completely unreasonable if someone is expected of cheating. Loss of a replay challenge? A lot more reasonable and realistic.
Agreed…but how will this work when the switch to robo umps behind HP?!
They gonna rely on the infield umps to regulate this?
Between this and many other recent changes/shortcomings, I’m wondering if MLB is actively trying to hang itself.
There will still be a home plate umpire. He’ll even be the one “calling” balls and strikes.
I think this season’s mishaps by HP umps not even halfway thru the season has shown us that there is a compelling reason to start using robos behind HP in the not too distant future.
Wait until you see what a robot strike zone will look like. Curve balls that cross but hit the dirt. Sliders 6 inches outside that nip the front of the plate. It wouldn’t work now as is. Strike zone would have to change as it isn’t that box on tv.
I think what will happen long term is umps will still call balls and strikes but the trackman will overlay and reverse calls that are outside of a certain window.
I like that you assume that using robo umps will go so smoothly. It will be different. To be seen whether it will be better.
Even with a computer strike zone, there should still be a home plate umpire. That isn’t all they do you know.
As Kershaw suggested, have penalties in place for an opposing manager that asks for a check and nothing is found.
At the very least they should lose their challenge for that game. And can only ask if they have a challenge remaining
That makes no sense. Because let’s say the manager is suspicious, and asks in the fourth inning. Nothing is found.
Now, that team gets five innings to use substances and the opposing manager can’t do a thing about it, or they are worried about fines, penalties, etc.
The better solution is to a check in the 3rd, 6th, and 9th innings after the pitcher departs for the inning.
Umpires can still check at any point so not sure what you’re getting at
It’s like replay review. How often do we see umpires calling for their own review? Not often.
MLB Umpires likely don’t want to be checking for substances, and probably won’t if the manager isn’t asking for it.
Umpires have received a memo to check pitchers often and are very clearly doing that so far if you’ve watched any game the last week
They are checking as they are directed to…
Are they going to suddenly look into Max Scherzer because he’s touching his hair in the middle of the 5th inning without a manager challenging it? Probably not.
Managers have been asking for checks even before this was a massive issue. There is nothing new about asking. It’s happened quite frequently. It’s just now a bigger deal because umps are checking every inning.
Actually, by trying eliminate gamesmanship by managers, and the starter got their 2 mandated checks over with, nothing to stop the pitcher from then start using the illegal stuff if they do not have to worry about being checked again. Gamesmanship now hits to the pitchers.
asking to check is a way to make sure the umps are actually doing their jobs. if its incessant and in the middle of innings though, its unreasonable.
Of course opposing teams will use this new rule for disruption. Expect to see more of it.
On one hand, it’s ridiculous for pitchers to whine about “not being able to cheat anymore” or “having to stop cheating in the middle of the season”, but on the other hand it’s just crazy that MLB let this go on knowingly for SOOOOO long and turned a blind eye to it. Seems the pitchers took it a little too far with the development of new materials that altered the game so significantly and turned AAA pitchers in to All-Stars overnight, but MLB shares the blame for allowing it to go on, just like with the steroid issue. This is gonna be an ugly situation and is only going to get worse.
Ok fine, but isn’t it also fair to point out that MLB using juiced balls might compel pitchers to regain some of the disadvantage they’ve been given as a result?
Not saying it’s okay, but there’s a legit reason.
There’s gotta be a happy medium beyond rosin/sweat.
Personally I want an even playing field for all pitchers but I don’t have a problem coming up with something better than rosin and saliva either.
Pitchers need to find a better argument than, “I need the help gripping the ball or more batters will get hit by pitches.” The record setting numbers of batters getting hit by pitches over the last few seasons while pitchers were using sticky stuff completely undermines that claim.
Is “I need help keeping my spin rates elevated otherwise I’m not that effective” a better argument? It’s an honest one.
What a mess.
Joe should focus on his team and why they are so mediocre instead of what Max is doing.
The Nationals and Phillies have the exact same record.
For the record, I love Max Scherzer. With that being said, he acted like an absolute child last night. On the opposite side of the spectrum, Zack Wheeler was checked twice. He was fine with it because he knew he wasn’t using anything so he simply complied. What a novel idea. Perspective is key.
Both Wheeler and Max were checked after the first and third innings with no reaction from either of them.
Only Scherzer was checked mid-inning. So your contrast to how Wheeler reacted is simply nonsense.
Max chose to take it the way that he did. A display that reeked of past guilt. His spin rates sure did drop significantly this past week didn’t they?
Can’t believe I ever thought Girardi would have been a good manager for the Nats. What a gigantic f-wad he showed himself to be last night. Not only did his stunt disrupt of the game, it was foolish and likely to backfire from the beginning. What a way to get Max fired up even more.
Did anyone check to see if scherzer has run his hand through his head against a Girardi team before? That line from Girardi seems like total b/s, how does he remember who has rubbed their head on the mound before?
Scherzer is frequently cited as one of the biggest culprits of using foreign substances. He’s also been one of the biggest detractors of this issue.
Who ISN’T going to ask for him to be checked?
After this reaction I think every manager who has a game against scherzer should find a reason or abnormality to have him checked.
It’s like a 2 year old, let them throw enough tantrums to get it out of their system.
I like the idea of losing the replay challenge if you ask for a check and there is nothing. As it is, there is nothing stopping managers from doing this just to disrupt a pitcher, and it absolutely will be done again. I’m waiting for the day when a pitcher has a no-hitter through 4 2/3, a manager is “suspicious” and calls for a check, nothing is found, and the next batter gets a hit. People will lose their minds.
I thought it was kinda sweet. Umpire runs his hand through Max’s hair, Max starts to take off his pants. Real sensual moment I thought
The MLB could at least wait until Cinemax starts their after-hours programming…
I just muted the TV and threw on some smooth jazz from the early 80s. It was nice.
AAron Johnson,
And maybe some Riuniti on ice? That’s nice…
haha, amazing. I thought it was hilarious and made me tune in to a Nats/Phils game, both teams I hate. Bring on more of this, I say.
If it wasn’t so embarrassing it would be funny.
Queue the slow mo and saxophone
And just like that, Kenny G music sales skyrocket.
Girardi may have went overboard with the ask, but Max was rubbing his head after every single pitch, something Max never does. It looked weird to me. So I get it, but with the umps already checking after every half inning, I didn’t see the need for an extra ask. Max acted like a baby, and Girardi did the same. As John Kruk said during the broadcast “Completely uncalled for on both sides.”
It’s funny, because the reason Max was doing that might very well be that he *did* stop using substances. His spin rate was down significantly, and in one game that might just be humidity or coming back from injury, it definitely *could* be that he was going to his hair so often because he wasn’t using. Which means Girardi was probably right to think it was weird, and Max was right that he wasn’t doing anything. I don’t know if Girardi had access to spin rate reports while the game was going on, but it seems to me that if he knew that, he might not have gone for that check.
@Col From Max’s comments, it certainly sounds like he was used to using substances and had to all of a sudden stop. He seems like he’s more mad at the new enforced rules than anything else. No respect to Max who is a HoFer in my eyes. But he definitely looked off and was trying to get a better grip on the ball using sweat. Something he hasn’t done in the past.
I meant to say no disrespect! Lol. Much respect to Max.
Wouldn’t mind seeing Scherzer drop his pants….
If you missed it, Sergio Romo did exactly that. Now he had enough outer clothes to cover, and Sergio’s always been a flake, but it was funnier than hell. Even the ump was laughing.
Mmmmmmmm
Major League Baseball is an absolute joke
And yet here you are, reading and commenting on articles about it…
I just made a statement about the idiocy that exists today in MLB, sorry if your offended dumplin…By the way you can throw the NBA and NFL into my statement as well
I stopped going to the local diner because service got bad. But I didn’t feel the need to advertise it to the world.
If you think that the MLB, NFL, and NBA are jokes, then simply stop watching them. I stopped watching the NBA, but again, didn’t feel the need to sign in and post that.
Bye-bye.
Joe,
You have just won the ironic post of the day award! Congratulations!
Wooo!
Rizzo’s an idiot. if anything, he might be a con artist. As for Girardi, he should’ve waited for the end of the inning to ask for it, I guess. it’s not like he’s blindly checking, he said why he asked for it.
sam,
Agreed. To paraphrase a Mike Rizzo quote, “F#€£, Mike Rizzo!”
Look, if they are gonna implemented this rule, there does need to be some ground rules. It’s not that crazy.
1.) eliminate request from the dugouts – they are already being checked, no need to add this “gamesmanship” to this and slow down everything.
2.) All pitchers get checked before the 1st inning that they pitch. Ex. SP get check before the 1st inning (during warm ups), then not checked again until my 3rd rule.
3.) all pitchers that pitch more than 1 inning are subjected to a random 2nd check at any point during the game at the umpires decision.
Bomb, easy fix. It’s not complicated. But again, I still think there is a reasonable debate that this rule should exist in the first place. Especially changing the rule mid season
Like him or not.. Jomboy’s take on it is hilarious.
The crackdown is long-overdue, it will come with imperfections. But to Kershaw: personal bias about “caliber” should not factor into this
Losing a challenge isn’t a good solution. A pitcher as “gamesmanship” could just as easily fake like he is using something to get an opposing team to lose a challenge they may need later, especially in a tight game where it may matter.
You’re telling me that wouldn’t be fun?
It would be funny and Bauer would likely be #1 on the list to mess with someone since he has had high spin rates that would get an opponent worked up.
That would be great fun. Bauer would start each inning putting his hand inside his cap, or under his armpits, or worse.
The more intelligent way would be to have live updating of spin rates. If Scherzer’s 2200 rpm curve just moved to a 2500 curve, then note the evidence and challenge him.
Or better yet, keep the spin rates on the scoreboard for both teams.
The rosin bag up until this week was a relic from a by-gone era due to how slick the baseballs have gotten over the years and the need for pitchers to use an enhanced substance to grip the ball..Umps aren’t using the mud like they used to to take the shine off balls so pitchers came up with a solution..
Btw, if Manfred who whines about pace of play thinks this charade will speed up the game he’s a bigger idiot than I thought… What’s next; batters can’t wear gloves because it gives them a grip advantage and therefore is unfair to the pitcher?
Re: “pace of play”: The overwhelming majority of checks are taking place between innings, not at a point where it slows down the game. The ones that do COULD go quickly if pitchers decide not be over-demonstrative buffoons about it.
Re: batting gloves: the gloves and pine tar allow for a player to grip a bat that has smooth wood. Without those grip agents, pitchers/fielders, umpires, and fans would be getting hit with flying bats all the time. (Note, they already were WITH those substances). They also have rules about how much pine tar a player can use, and ban certain substances for batter grip.
Finally, I wouldn’t call anyone an “idiot” when it follows a bunch of nonsensical, incoherent ramblings. Just a thought.
skullbreathe………….
Umps don’t mud the balls and haven’t for awhile. Ball clubs buy the mud and home-team clubhouse attendants mud the balls. There is a possibility that human mudding will soon end as an “automatic “mudder” has been developed….I kid you not.
usatoday.com/in-depth/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nig…
Why not check him when he’s coming off the mound? I thought the whole idea behind these inspections was that they wouldn’t disrupt the pace of the game.
Also, the opposing manager absolutely needs to face some kind of penalty if he’s proven wrong. Whether that’s the loss of a challenge or something else, they can’t be allowed to make random accusations with no consequences.
With that logic there should be a penalty for appealing to first or third base….
If you’re wrong, count a balk and award a base.
Dumb right? So is penalizing a check the umps agreed was supported by unusual behavior and turned up negative
If a manager is abusing it, then MLB’s Office should take care of it. But if you add consequences to being wrong, then pitchers will just start doing suspicious things to convince a manager to check him.
It’s really simple: if you state how frequent the checks will be, just uphold that and don’t allow for anyone else to issue a challenge for it. Plain and simple.
Scheduled checks only just doesn’t work if the intent is to make it unpredictable and make pitchers afraid to cheat. Neither does a specified number of checks per game after which you’re in the clear.
It’s like giving a license to cheat within a window as long as you clean up in the dugout or take a restroom break between innings before your scheduled check which you would know when it’s coming.
MLB drafted a plan in crayon, implemented on the fly in the middle of a season, and this is what you get.
I’m not against them enforcing rules and checking pitchers, but this has just been poorly thought out. They should have taken this off-season to implement it and consider the ramifications.
Make him run 5 laps around the warning track. (If only Tal’s Hill were still around…)
In hockey, if you challenge a goal and are wrong, you get a two minute delay of game penalty.
So, I’m intrigued…what would be the comparable or appropriate punishment in baseball for the manager being wrong?
A strike? An out? How could they enforce that?
The pitcher gets to throw a pitch at the manager.
Like a dunking booth
Good question. Next batter starts out with an 0-2 count?
Simple. Eject the manager.
The managers should not be able to stop the game for this right now. They should be forced to notify the umpire between innings so this can be addressed in the clubhouse at that time. I also don’t see why the league can’t have a guy that chills in the ump dressing room and handles the search and collection.
The pitchers can whine and complain. The hitters have rights too. I suspect now that the more recent cheating scandals involving hitters with the Red Sox and Astros, the accusations toward other teams, were likely driven by the increase in the pitchers’ foreign substance use. We assumed all this time that spin rates were going up due to refinements in coaching via increasingly more precise analytics.
The depressed offense makes for a less entertaining product, but also costs position players money. The system the league put in place isn’t perfect, hopefully they will alter it and work out the kinks.
I want a more straightforward game played that lacks manipulation. I like the stories of the cheating in baseball. But it needs to stop. Sign stealing by a position player from second base, that’s on the catcher and pitcher. Other than that, just play.
I can understand the pitchers being frustrated, especially in Scherzer’s case because what Girardi did was absolutely bush league and about trying to mess up his rhythm but they way some of them are treating the umpires over it is ridiculous. They don’t have a choice, they work for the league and they have to enforce the league’s rules. Its the same mentality as yelling at a cashier because your coupon is expired. Plus, how many of them do you think want to handle your sweaty and nasty hat or hair or whatever.
Joe G. is just frustrated; he hasn’t been the savior he was hired to be, and the upper management obviously isn’t letting DD do what he wants. Both Joe and Dave will probably leave at the end of the year.
The Phillies are the Red Sox, National League variety. It’s not that they’re good or bad, it’s just that they’re boring. As Dave O’Brien (Sox TV guy) said last night, “I can’t believe I’m saying this, but there are plenty of good seats available for the Sox-Yankee series this weekend in Fenway, especially Sunday”. It’s been a long time since Sox announcers had to hustle ANY tickets, never mind for the Spanks.
Ron Darling (a thinking man) had a great solution. Hire a bunch of retired umps who randomly check pitchers AFTER an inning. Berry simple, berry easy.
Seems like gamesmanship more than an actual check. I strongly disagree with Kershaw’s idea of a punishment if they don’t find anything, though. The whole getting a pitcher out of his rhythm is kind of crap. Rain delays and really long half innings where the pitcher is in the dugout do much worse. The batters sometimes take a little stroll in the general vicinity of home plate or call time out just as a pitcher’s about to get into his windup. Point being, their rhythm is already plenty broken up and there’s no reason the entire game should be tailored to their rhythm anyway.
As for managers demanding checks all the time, umpires will soon realize which managers are known for crying wolf and which ones have at least a chance of legitimacy. They’ll start ignoring the ones who do it all the time. This should be just a short-term issue.
I agree, why is the mid-inning check necessary if there’s always going to be one at the end of the inning? The pitcher is on many cameras 100% of the time, its impossible to go out there clean, add a substance, and then remove it before end of inning without anyone noticing. This is a good idea but handled in the worst possible way. Should be done off the tv broadcast camera (but on an internal camera) and off the field.
The reason behind a mid-inning check is that, under the rules, if the guy is caught cheating you don’t get those ABs back.
Sure, he’s ejected for using, but you still lost the chance to compete on a level field.
I knew as soon as I saw the article, that the Jomboy video was going to be mentioned.
Rob Manfred continues to be the worst commissioner in the history of the world.
Bud was much worse but they’re both the worst two.
MLB was between a rock and a hard place here. They sent out a memo warning of increased scrutiny on grip enhancements in February of 2020. An Angels employee was fired for distributing a substance in March of 2020 after he was highlighted in an MLB investigation on the issue. MLB sent out another memo in spring of this year re-iterating the substances were illegal and not to be used.
However, pitchers kept using the illegal substances without any changes and, at the same time, players became increasingly vocal about the issue throughout the season.
Since MLB had told pitchers and clubs to stop multiple times, given them ample opportunity to do so and players were becoming publicly vocal about the issue, MLB had to make a move to enforce the policy. In addition, MLB made it pretty clear checks would be frequent and in order to make them even more random, coaches were still allowed to request “checks.” MLB knew embarrassing situations like Scherzer’s check would arise. It serves to increase visibility of the checks and further the pressure on pitchers to comply with the policy.
I’d think there might be something much more akin to a TSA foreign substance check in the future. At least, I think there should be. Rather than asking umpires to be a combination of chemical engineer and crime scene investigator, it’d probably be a lot better to have pitchers hands swabbed and that scanned for banned substances like the TSA occasionally does when they’re spot checking for bomb residue. Obviously, that’s not a reasonable option right now.
It’s almost like mlb should have internally dealt with this instead of throwing memos out to the media without talking to players or coaches…
MLB sends the memos to teams only, in private. Staff in the team front offices sometimes share the confidential memos with media.
As I posed above, the known memos started in the spring of last year and there was an internal, league wide investigation going on for months. The results of the investigation have not been made public by MLB or any front office and we can only speculate on how much of the investigation was shared with the different teams. We do know the investigation led to the termination of an Angels employee.
MLB doesn’t usually “talk to players” directly, they generally work with the MLBPA and team management and team employees and players have been aware of MLB’s increasing focus for a year and a half, at least.
Girardi has an advanced degree from the University of Wasting Time on the Field (UWTF) located in the Bronx. No team has tried harder to literally make games last forever than the sad sack york yankees. Desperately trying to wear teams out by using multiple relievers during innings was a Girardi trademark. He is just a yanker of chains, hoping it rains, and a painful man to watch, who will eventually botch, the game.
and Mike “human rain delay” Scioscia was his professor
Man, if Fisk ever managed, games would never end. That man loved to visit the mound. But maybe that’s how he stayed limber enough to play for so long.
This whole scenario is embarrassing for MLB and yet another bad decision coupled with poor timing.
The whole thing is idiotic. The scenes this “enforcement” creates are ridiculous.
If they are really concerned about foreign substances, check the pitcher before the game, and then make him sit by himself in the dugout when his team is at bat. Monitor him there, if you have to.
There should be a penalty if you want the pitcher examined, and it turns out he is clean.
Manfred is not a good commissioner. He wants to shorten games but then implements rigid enforcement of what has always been the rule, wasting lots of time.
Tell us a reasonable penalty that doesn’t get sucked into the “gamesmanship” that happens in baseball.
If I’m a pitcher, I’m gonna do everything I can to get a manager to ask for a check. Touch my cap, touch my arm, belt, combing through my hair. ANYTHING, especially if I know that the manager might face a fine, or worse, faces some in-game penalty,
Pitchers brought this upon themselves. They were told to stop, and instead of stopping, it got worse. I think managers have every right to call them out for it.
I like they’re doing this but MY GOD WHY are they doing it on the field and not in a designated dugout area!?!?!? That is unbelievably stupid and nothing any fan wants to watch. Handle this off the field PLEASE.
Just make it so if a manager calls for opposing pitcher to be checked and is proven wrong then he gets hit in the nuts with a bag of nickels. Problem solved.
Make it dimes. Then we can borrow a line from Blazing Saddles.
I thought a Mgr couldn’t ask for it for this exact outcome? I thought it was up to the umpiring crew. Can anyone be a bad as ManFred. Wow
It disrupts a pitcher’s rhythm? Didn’t faze Gaylord Perry one iota. In fact, he used it to his advantage by putting the idea he was cheating into every opposing hitter’s head. Players need to stop whining and suck it up.
It’s almost like instituting rules on the fly with little to no thought is a huge disruption for everyone.. who knew?
Booooooooo
im completely over Girardi. that was a circus.
Should just let them have band substances and boosted balls… be better for the sport..
I’ve worked in the music business my entire life. There’s a lot of band substances that you don’t want in the game…
Ump ruffled his hair but didn’t check his underwear. Waist band substances and boosted balls.
Rock or rubber bands? Please be more specific.
Not one of baseball best moves along with the all star game. Why not start new rules over the winter? Manfred has to go
You know… Maybe as a show of respect and all, they should let ol’ Manfred take a few at bats versus Scherzer…
How many times are managers allowed to do this? They’re only allowed 6 mound visits. Seems this has the potential to extend games quite a bit. So much for shortening games.
Sorry Commish, lost my grip….
Does Manfred actually like baseball? I’m not sure.
Cant the makers of the baseball place a couple sticky spots for the pitchers to grip?
LOL
When are they going to swap lacrosse balls into MLB?
Jomboy is a joke.
Congrats MLB/Manfred enjoying the circus you created?
Kershaw probably should keep quiet as its his teammate that started this whole mess to begin with
His teammate called on the commissioner office to even the playing ground for how a rule is enforced
Not pretend mlb has never used anything to help a pitcher pitch, ever. If you’re so out of touch you don’t understand the difference, you’re missing the person where the blame belongs
Baseball has always and will always be a game of strategy. If calling out an ace pitcher like Scherzer throws him off his game and allows his team to score runs every single manager in baseball would do it. That’s baseball.. Girardi is an old school player and manager. He is gonna try anything the rules allow. Kershaw and Scherzer need to stop whining. How many times have we seen a catcher or member of the coaching staff make a mound visit when a pitcher is in trouble? Can hitters start complaining about that? If you don’t want Girardi to do something just ban it. He will always follow the written rules. Every sport has its own version of icing a player. Maybe the NFL should ban opposing coaches calling a timeout before a kicker attempts a crucial field goal. I mean it’s not fair to the kicker right?
If they’re wrong while demanding a check, eject the manager
Simple
Can’t the umpire just check the ball randomly? Like once an inning when the pitcher throws the ball the umpire can come up with a way to tap or tell the catcher to ask for the ball. Touch it. You know can tell the difference between sunscreen and rosin compared to the crazy stuff out there now. If it’s abundantly sticky you check them yourself.
It shouldn’t take more than a few seconds of the ump touching the ball and then throwing it back or giving it back to the catcher.
The also rules out any pitcher trying to get his catcher to put anything on the ball (although that should be easy to spot, you never know).
MLB has opened up Pandora’s box with this crap.
I wonder what Girardi thought of Pineda’s pine tar makeup?
I feel this need to get this out of my system. Phillies suck. Thanks.
My dad and I were discussing manager punishments for wrong accusations last night. We couldn’t come up with anything easy to implement except taking the runner on 2nd in extras, although 90% of games don’t reach extra innings. Not a huge deterrent but could influence managers in close games. I enjoy reading comments here so keep posting opinions and ideas good people
Continually lost in all this is that MLB keeps changing the manufacturing of the baseball. If they would make the laces as they used to be, there wouldn’t be so much issue. This years baseball has been described as if the stitching doesn’t exist. Pitchers have described it as feeling like it is covered with sand. They can’t grip it.
Back in the olden days, pitchers on the mound were not allowed to go to their face or lips or tongue or “sweaty” hair…! Today’s game sure is different. I had to laugh when umpires checked Degrom after he threw several 100 mph fastballs.
There are numerous strategies that teams use to throw off a pitcher’s rhythm. Girardi just took advantage of the new rule. This is the kind of stuff that happens when MLB employs rule changes in the middle of the season. Subjecting pitchers to public friskings during ball games without cause is disgusting. Come on man…
I honestly don’t think Girardi was checking for gamesmanship reasons, although I get why people see it that way. Watching the game Scherzer looked off and started rubbing his head constantly. It looked very weird to me as a casual viewer. I understand why Girardi wanted to take a look, BUT he should have left it in the hands of the umpires who were already checking constantly. Bad look for Girardi for sure, but I get it.
What’s more baffling to me is why Girardi keeps using David Hale.
And who do we have to thank for this whole debacle? Rob Manfred. Worst MLB Commissioner of all time.