In an article about the Blue Jays’ upcoming offseason, Shi Davidi of Sportsnet says that the club tried to acquire Cleveland infielder Jose Ramirez and Detroit outfielder Robbie Grossman at the trade deadline.
This comment came within the context of a discussion he had with general manager Ross Atkins about the lack of diversity in the Blue Jays’ lineup this season. Atkins stated that the righty-heavy lineup was better when left-handed hitters Cavan Biggio and Corey Dickerson were present. “It’s not just that they’re left-handed, but how we are attacked and potentially the pitchers that are used is different,” Atkins said. “Secondarily, we feel it’s important to have balance and not just the same type of hitters up and down your lineup. So some players that are more batting average driven and some players that are more on-base driven with plate discipline. Having both is exceptionally powerful.”
In the end, the Blue Jays only added pitching at the deadline, with Jose Berrios being the headline move. In the season’s final months, the club finished strong and ended up 91-71, just one game away behind the eventual Wild Card participants, the Red Sox and Yankees.
Ramirez and Grossman are both excellent hitters, making it hardly surprising that Toronto, or any club, would be interested in their services. Both certainly would have helped with the righty-heavy situation, as they are both switch hitters. Grossman is usually better as a righty but still above-average from the left side. For his career, his slash line as a righty is .273/.367/.409, wRC+ of 116, whereas the lefty line is .241/.346/.378, wRC+ of 102. This year, his production as a lefty was slightly better, coming in at 105 in terms of wRC+. But his production as a righty was significantly better, coming in at 135 by the same measure. Ramirez, however, is equally excellent from both sides. His career line as a righty is .292/.351/.500 for a wRC+ of 125. As a lefty in his career, he’s hit .272/.356/.502 for a wRC+ of 127. This year, his wRC+ was 139 as a lefty and 135 as a righty.
It is perhaps worth nothing that both players are still controlled by their respective clubs, making it possible that whatever trade scenarios were discussed could be revisited in the offseason, especially considering that the Jays are losing the aforementioned Dickerson to free agency, weakening their already-thin pool of lefty bats. Grossman and the Tigers agreed to a two-year deal before this season, leaving one year remaining at a salary of $5MM. The Tigers have been rebuilding in recent years, making it somewhat logical that they would consider parting with a veteran player who is approaching free agency. But on the other hand, after an awful showing in April, they went 69-66 over the season’s final months and could be looking to add rather than subtract this offseason. And the Jays aren’t especially desperate for outfield help, given they have George Springer, Teoscar Hernandez, Lourdes Gurriel Jr. and Randal Grichuk on hand.
Ramirez, for his part, is controlled through for two more seasons via a pair of club options as part of the extension he signed prior to the 2017 season. The $11MM and $13MM salaries for 2022 and 2023 are both absolute bargains for a player of his caliber, meaning they’re guaranteed to be picked up. However, that also means it will be difficult to pry him loose from Cleveland, even if it’s unclear how aggressive the team plans to be this winter. They finished the season with a lackluster 80-82 record, meaning there could be an argument for selling. But on the other hand, they suffered a large number of injuries to key players, especially in their rotation, and could expect better results in 2022. According to Cot’s Baseball Contracts, they also had an opening day payroll of under $50MM this season, lower than it’s been in a decade, meaning there shouldn’t be too much desire to strip it down even further. As much as he would slot nicely into a Toronto lineup that has Cavan Biggio and Santiago Espinal as its best third base options, it should take a tremendous trade package to make it happen.
The Blue Jays, for their part, should be able to take on some salary. When asked if the payroll could increase from this year’s $140MM range, Atkins tells Davidi, “That is our desire and that is our understanding.” That wouldn’t be unprecedented for the Toronto club, as their budget was over $160MM in both 2017 and 2018, before dipping as their recent rebuild picked up steam. Now that they’ve returned to contention over the past two seasons, it stands to reason that they would return to that level, if not surpass it. They only have about $65MM committed to next year, according to Jason Martinez of Roster Resource, though that’s before accounting for arbitration raises for players like Berrios, Hernández and Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
Atkins tells Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet that the Jays are looking to add to the infield and rotation, which makes sense given they are losing Robbie Ray and Marcus Semien to free agency in a few weeks. As to whether they have the cash to pull it off, Atkins told Davidi that the Jays could give out a “very significant deal with a lot of term to it, maybe more than one,” but also tried to tamp down expectations by saying that teams “need to have that five- and six-year understanding for what that means for the team and the organization.”
I absolutely can not get the Grossman obsession. he’s a nice reserve OF and a decent starter in a good year. i cant see any more than that but the dude is made out by some to be some kinda star player.
I’m only barely kidding but still don’t know the difference between grossman and Marisnick lol
The guy gets on base a ton, grinds out at bats, was a 20-20 guy this season, plays both corner outfield spots, and provided exceptional veteran leadership to a young Tigers outfield. I don’t think anyone makes him out to be a star, per se, but any team would be lucky to have a guy like him.
You’re both joking right? He just went 20-20 in a park where lefty power isn’t easy to come by, walked 98 times and had 3 WAR. Definitely not a bench guy whatsoever. I will say he’s not a star but he’s an above average regular who can slot into the top of a lineup. Not to mention he seems like a good clubhouse guy.
He’ll be 32 next season, was forced to sign with a rebuilding Tigers team this past offseason because he had few other options, was offered a modest contract that pays him $5M, and after parts of nine seasons in the bigs, he’s a corner OFer slashing all of .250/.352/.386 and in his early 30s.
He has value, but let’s not inflate that value. The Tigers likely weren’t offered all that much for him so in that sense they might as well keep him.
Grossman’s FB% last season: 46.2%
Grossman’s career FB%: 37.1%
Grossman’s GB% last season: 29.5%
Grossman’s career GB%: 38.7%
That’s what we call a swing change. The last two seasons Grossman’s batted ball profile has been reflective of this and he’s hit for newfound power. I would bet money that he repeats this season’s production going forward.
@Lordd
He wasn’t “forced” to sign with anyone. The Tigers offered him a full time job, rather than platoon work. No one else offered that. I hated the signing and felt much like you. I found that he has more power than I thought. He is much faster than I thought. He’s solid but unspectacular in the field. What he does do is drive up the pitch count every AB. That helps the whole team by getting to the bullpen early. It also encouraged others to take more pitches, by his example. He’s not Judge. He’s not Betts. He is a solid regular. I don’t think there was an offer, but while you might not appreciate what Grossman brings to the table, I guarantee both Avila and Atkin do.
Lefty power?
Woulda, coulda, shoulda
yeah. he had a great year, but basically every counting stat he excelled in he blew away his career norms in. but some people here seem to suggest that it’s a norm for him.
You’re a casual
Welcome to all Darkside830’s takes. Think whatever is the most groupthink, brain-dead take and imagine it with poor capitalization. This dude still thinks Hector Santiago is guilty. I bet he thinks OJ was innocent too.
Hector Santiago was also using PEDs, so it makes the sticky stuff thing a whole lot more plausible. poor example.
He is a switch hitter, walks a ton, and hit a career high 20 homers all for 5 million dollars. He crushed the production to dollar ratio. The obsession is warranted.
Ramirez an Grossman should not be used in the same sentence. Damn, I just did it.
He’s a player that often gets overlooked because he is not flashy. Guys like him are beneficial to a championship team because they do everything at an average rate and are cheap. If you look at any team in these playoff, there is a guy that matches the role player that Grossman is. I wish that Cleveland would have released him in spring training several years prior, he would have been one of our best outfielder over the last two years.
It was reported at the deadline that Cleveland was not interested in trading Jose Ramirez unless totally overwhelmed. I don’t see that viewpoint changing. this offseason.
And I don’t understand that, they need a full tear down and it’s quite obvious. But by all means hold him until he’s worth a bag of balls
Cleveland has strong, controllable starting pitching and a strong farm system. Tell me why they need to do a full tear down? The answer is that they do not.
Cleveland is well situated if they would just spend some flipping money.
Why? And don’t say because it results in more wins. See Rays. Will spending more money result in more fans attending games? Checks attendance from 16.17 nope that’s not it either. Spending doesn’t equal winning and in many cases spending actually handcuffs the franchise so they aren’t competitive.
When you have huge holes in your team and no answers in the minors, you need to spend money. If Cleveland had added a quality outfielder or two, along with a decent first baseman, they could have seriously contended.
As for the Rays, they don’t spend a whole lot but they are always added major league talent to their team team this year did trade for an expensive DH.
Butts in seats. More revenue
Civale’s, Bieber’s and Plesac’s 31 missed starts were replaced by Hentge’s, Majia, and Allens’ 4-18, and maybe 7.04 ERA. With better health, they’d have competed. They were only 2 out On June 24th.
It would be interesting to see who the Jays were offering for Ramirez. Maybe there is no possible future trade because of the prospects lost due to the slight overpay for Berrios.
I imagine Biggio and/or Kirk would likely have to have been included in the deal. Maybe SWR and another couple of prospects
Indians probably wanted the galaxy and then some for Ramirez. They’ve been pretty adamant about trading him, even after dealing Lindor, Kluber, Bauer, Clevinger, Carrasco, and Cesar Hernandez over the past 2-3 seasons. Can’t imagine a trade scenario going down where at least one (possibly even two) of Groshans, SWR, or Austin Martin with either Kirk or Biggio being included.
When have Cleveland ever been “pretty adamant” about trading Ramirez?
Find a link for me, I’ll wait.
I assumed he just forgot to add *not*. His entire post was written that way.
I’m almost wondering if he’s left out a word: “not” trading him. There have been no reports indicating the Indians are trying to trade him. There have been reports other teams are interested in trading for him that Cleveland consistently rejects.
Context clues tell you most definitely did.
I wonder if they keep him around if there truly is a spending floor for teams in the new CBA.
Quite the opposite. They’ve been adamant about NOT trading him. They would only entertain an absurd offer. They got to 80 wins without their Cy Young starter, and half the season without their #2 (Civale). Their starting catcher was gone for 75% of the season. It was a year of injuries. But good things emerged as well: Quantrill and Clase are quality pitchers. Rosario can hit, if not yield an average glove.
No sinking ship here.
Predictable epic failure as soon as the Berrios trade happened. Blue Jays reached for the stars too early. They were way too willing to trade Austin Martin and that may come back to haunt them for years. They had no need to get desperate like that when their core is young.
What epic fail? Berrios has been great.
I do agree they simply gave up too much for him though, I really love Martin. At the time of the trade my thoughts were pretty much exactly your last 2 sentences.
slimmycito8 hours ago
What epic fail? Berrios has been great.
======================================
The failure of the trade, in my RS opinion, is that they were in 8th place, with no shot at TB. So, at best, you are fighting for a 50% chance at a WC, then a 50% chance at winning that, followed by a less-than-50% chance against TB, Houston, and LAD.
To give up as much as they did, I think you need a lock on the WC, and a good shot at 1st. Those are what the Dodgers did. It didn’t work, but the rewards were high.
IMHO, they should’ve done what the RS, NYY, Atl, etc., did. Make a smaller bet hoping to make the WC. Basically, only having Berrios for one year is what makes it a failure.
That would be true if Berrios was a rental, but he will also help them this year as well. So those figures only make up a fraction of the odds.
As pointed out by Steve, Berrios was not a rental. Jays also were about 6 Nationals outs away from playing from playing in a play-in against the Red Sox to face the Yankees in the wild card. I really don’t think the Yankees or Red Sox would’ve liked to see the Jays in a one game playoff.
The Jays window to content might well have been this year. Springer is 32, Ryu 34, Teoscar is a few days short of 29, Ray and Semien were on one year deals. It’s not like they are just a bunch of 22 year olds over performing. It’s possible that this was the only chance this group will get – we don’t know.
Really? They have 65M on the books pre-arbitration with a range of at least double that.
Pretty sure they could resign Ray and Semien, while also bolstering other positions through FA. If they’re willing to give up some prospect depth, they could make some very interesting trades.
Pretty sure semien and ray are now checked out of Toronto’s price range. So yes Toronto’s window could have been one year.
Ray and Semien are not out of Toronto’s price range.
I hope they can keep those guys but it isn’t that simple. Jays fans have been through this before – we thought the future was bright with Shawn Green, Carlos Delgado, Halladay, Kelvim Escobar, and Carpenter. We thought it was bright with Wells, Rios, Hinske and Aaron Hill. Thought the window was opening with Ricky Romero, Dustin McGowan, Morrow, Lawrie, and Bautista. At some point you just go all in.
Going all in is a good way to never win.
Going all in is what closed the window sooner then it needed to be. If they didn’t make those absurd decisions in 2013 and won the offseason. It’s hilarious the fans haven’t figured out every team that wins the offseason usually misses the playoffs.
How did they ‘win’ the offseason and go all in exactly?
That’s because most of the writers think that picking up the biggest names equals winning the off-season.
Dickey was a 38 year old knuckleballer. Reyes, Johnson, and Buehrle were names, not bad, but not cheap. These were Prelleresque acquisitions where you get a little better, but older, and a lot more expensive.
And the press loved it.
I had completely blocked Josh Johnson from my memory lmao. What a disaster.
That’s a wide range of price points to have made a deal !
LMAO! “Having both is exceptionally powerful.” So it is important to have different kinds of good hitters in your lineup…and this is a new revelation for the Blue Jays? Ross Atkins just learned something that Connie Mack knew 100 years ago…and Ross gets paid millions of dollars.
Hell, I knew that and I only manage a fantasy baseball team.
It’s how he phrases it all, with “we feel,” especially, that makes it hilarious, like they’re inventing some new way to think about baseball or something.
Pretty sure he was asked a specific question about lineup construction….it wasn’t like he just realized this. But sure, you’d be the better gm – hope the Jays track both of you down.
Some people just hear what they want to hear
Yes, because saying something means you just learned it. Come on.
Knowing Al Avila’s acumen, he probably asked for Vlad Jr straight up for Grossman.
Knowing Avila’s acumen, the Jays would of laughed at him and then offered their 49th best prospect for Grossman and Avila would have agreed.
As neither scenario occurred, neither of you know Avila’s acumen. Tigers are coming out of rebuild and it would have been extremely disheartening to the young players to see Grossman traded mid season as they had started winning. Guessing the conversation went like this: Atkins, “What about Grossman?”. Avila, ” We’re not moving him at this time.” MLBTR, “Its a slow news day for rumors. Bet we can get an article out of this!”
I was talking about the horrendous contracts (Zimmermann, Lowe, Pelfrey) he was allowed to dish out at the beginning of his GM tenure. Also his minimal return on players such as JV and Martinez in trade is very disheartening. Throw on top of that his reluctance to move Fulmer at his peak value and the players he allegedly turned down in trade offers for him or the fact he over valued Boyd at his peak value (mid 2019) due to his ridiculous demands for him. Yes they have a good farm system. You should after being irrelevant for 5 years. Outside of Skubal, I fail to see where Avila has even done well drafting. Mize and Tork are #1 overall picks and Greene was 5th. If your organization is good you won’t be picking top 5 in the draft. Then what? Trust he can evaluate talent enough not to completely whiff at 12 overall next year? Your response is bizarre because it’s almost like your defending Avila and I’m not sure why based on his track record of ineptitude. Signed lifelong Tigers fan.
This is exactly why this rebuild is stinking.
Al worries about hurting someone’s feelings or disheartening a young player?
Really, dude?
How about the MEN learn to take orders instead of pretending they are little boys who need coddling…….
Eat’EmUpTigers:
Avila did get solid value for Verlander, who had a NTC and simply wasn’t in demand. We also do not know what exactly had been offered for Fulmer and Boyd. So much of the “ineptitude” you complain about might be a fallacy and nothing more.
Back to topic: Toronto could have targeted impending FAs for 3B and OF (Bryant for instance, who did not cost the Giants an arm and leg to acquire). Since the Blue Jays did not, we can safely assume that at least the offer for Grossman was not too generous.
Gruß,
BSHH
Avila can’t sign pitching. I will give you that. Boyd and Fulmer were the first pieces of the rebuild. No one bitches that the Yankees didn’t trade Severino when he first came up, or that Red Sox should have moved Rodriguez right after he was acquired from the Orioles to continue a rebuild. Has it worked out? Not as well as hoped, but don’t complain about a too long rebuild when you suggestions would have made it just as long or longer. If Boyd and Turnbull were.both healthy for 2022, this team would be battling with Chicago next year, as is.
Then explain this article? mlbtraderumors.com/2019/06/matthew-boyd-trade-rumo…
The Yankees and BoSox weren’t in a true rebuild like the Tigers, c’mon. That’s an apples and oranges comparison. A lot of “if’s” in your statement. If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle.
He was in demand, he was the deciding factor on going to Houston with his NTC so ultimately JV had the final say. The Tigers still ate part of his contract even with the bag of crap they got in return. His best trade is probably the Jeimer deal 5 years ago.
Actually, the Jury is still out on the Verlander deal between Astros and the Tigers.
Catcher Jake Rogers showed flashes of being an “above average” to potential All Star catcher on both sides of the ball when he went down with injury this year.
CF Daz Cameron (Mike’s son) age 24 is already a major leaguer on defense who plays all 3 OF slots and shows flashes of being a great player on offense.
RHSP Franklin Perez has been hurt a lot but still could make it and help the team.
So, wait and revisit the Verlander trade in another 2-3 years and you might have a different opinion. 2 healthy years of Verlander for Houston and a World Series Title
for 2-3 guys who become everyday players and contributors on Detroit’s next contending team?!
There’s no evidence Cameron will be on the major league roster once the tigers are good again. He’s barely on it now, he’s an awful hitter. Rogers had a good 1/2 season, promising, but small sample size. Perez has been an injured mess. What are you watching? That trade happened over 4 years ago lol.
‘Prospects” take time to develop. Some don’t “break through” until they are 27, 28 years old (See Haase and others)
Indians should have seriously considered Austin Martin, SWR and more for Ramirez. He is gone after 2023 anyway.
Cleveland already has a massive problem with their 40 man roster. As of right now, 9 of their top 30 prospects are all first time eligible for the Rule V draft (Tena, Bracho, Rocchio, Freeman, Palacios, Noel,Lavastida, Valera, Morris). That list doesn’t include two arms they’ve picked up in trades that they really like (Cantillo, Pilkington). They also have a quartet of outfielders who put up really quality years at the plate in AA/AAA who are all eligible (Kwan – 159 wRC+, Benson – 131, Gonzalez – 159, Call – 142).
Trading Jose for players that would need to be on the 40 would not make sense for this team. Jose is also likely not getting traded this offseason. If the Guardians are not in contention by the break in 2022 he would make sense to deal then, as presumably some of those young players would be coming up anyway. But trading him now doesn’t really work.
Hey colonel go apply for the Rockies job, I’m not jk.
But neither SWR or Martin need to be on the 40 man …..
Even if Ramirez is gone in 2023 Cleveland isn’t going to punt on next season. Not while Terry Francona is around
And not while they’re in the weakest division annually.
“Perhaps worth noting*”
Hahaha yes save the perhaps worth nothing for my comments guys!
The Tigers extended Schoop. They believe they can contend next year.
Yup, I wouldn’t have traded either of them, unless I was really overwhelmed. They were 68-61 after their bad start. At some point in most rebuilds, you have to take a stand and start putting chips back into the pot.
I spent a couple seasons drooling over Jose Ramirez for the Braves. Really glad that didn’t happen. Nothing against Ramirez, it’s just that Riley hasn’t even gone through his first year of arbitration.
It makes no sense for Cleveland to trade Jose anymore. At all. Not even for a massive return, which it would obviously take.
They’ve already stripped payroll down to pretty much the lowest it can go, and now that they’re entering the Guardians era, you’d think that they’d try to add to the payroll and build a better roster to capitalize on new merchandise sales. I don’t expect them to spend a ton, but I think they’ll at least add a little bit. A lot of their better prospects are close to the majors, so they should really be adding now and not subtracting. I’d give Jose a mammoth extension before I’d even consider trading him, and although they’ve always been reluctant to devote too much of their payroll to just one player, they have more than enough long-term flexibility to be able to make it work.
“Ramirez and Grossman are both excellent hitters…”
———
One of these two do not belong in the same sentence.
I’m sure they are using some obscure stats from Fangraphs to justify the comparison between Ramirez and Grossman.
The same Fangraphs that had the Rays chances of making the postseason at 18.6%
Nice to see the Jays trying to go-for-it.
Would love Ramirez on the Mets and Straw or Zimmer for CF, how about Davis,Smith,Szapucki and Lee. If the Mets can do this maybe put Ramirez at 2b and bring up Vientos to play 3b,than sign Bryant for RF. The Mets can let go of Conforto,Baez,Stroman,Familia and Betances which will save them $50 something mil
but adding Cano’s $24 back , signing Bryant and adding Ramirez in trade, the payroll wouldn’t go up with those deals..
You’re not remotely close on that trade.
In the decades I’ve been following baseball, I can probably count on one hand the number of realistic trades proposed by fans.
“Bro, let’s just send all of our underperforming players to another team for a superstar. They can’t possibly say no to a 5 for 1 deal!” – Average sports fan
I found a way to get Griffey and bonds and we wouldn’t even need to give up that much!
Could you imagine Lindor and Ramirez on the same team?
LMAO
First of all, Cleveland wouldn’t trade Jose and Straw. Second of all, that package barely gets you former Yankees relief pitcher Jose Ramirez.
Teams can try all they want to get Ramirez, but it’d have to be a perfect storm for Cleveland to deal him. Word out of Cleveland is that they looking to increase payroll and that they will be approaching guys (like Ramirez and Bieber) about long-term deals. It’s more likely that Ramirez signs a deal that increases his 2022 and 2023 salaries while adding 2-3 years to his control than him being dealt.
Let’s hope so.
Austin Martin could’ve come out of camp as the everyday 2B… Now the Jays are in somewhat of a tough position, it’s going to be hard to get better when Semien and Ray are possibly gone. An mvp candidate and a cy young candidate. You can’t put Biggio back at 2B after the production Semien just gave you at the position.. It is going to be hard to get better for the Jays, this offseason is more important then people realize.
Biggio
Oh hell no. I don’t know how they do that after what Semien just did for you at the position.. that’s a major downgrade, defensively as well, it’s not even close between the two players. Everyone is hopeful for the future of this team, but they’re losing two of the best players in baseball in free agency possibly. In Semien and Ray. Jays better get creative. Cause losing one is going to be hard, losing both guys will put this team back most likely. Jose Ramirez better be playing 3B for the Jays next year, if they want Biggio at 2B, someone needs to replace the production Semien gave you.
In 2019 Biggio played 100 games after being recalled from the minors. In 2020 he played only 59 games because of Covid.
In those 159 games Biggio had 33 doubles, 24 home runs, 111 walks and 20 stolen bases with 0 caught stealing. He only hit .240 but had a .360 obp.
Sure he is not as good as the year Semien just had but I think a 20/20 player with a .360 obp can be considered a decent major leaguer.
Ummm Semien just had one of the best seasons ever for a 2b you aren’t replacing his production fully. Not even Semien is replacing that. Semien played everyday. You most likely don’t even want your controllable players playing everyday since the jays play on concrete. Jays need biggio and another LH bat in the lineup at 3rd probably. They also probably need a LH CF who is above average d wise. Since Springer has never played more than 90 games as a CF.
Point is, Semien is a prolific bat, with great defense. Biggio is gonna have to take major strides next year if they want him at 2B. Having Biggio at 2B hurts them defensively as well, they won’t be as good up the middle with Biggio out there instead of Semien. While they also have a hole at 3B. One thing to have Espinal out there at 3B, when Semien is giving you his production at 2B.. but it’s another thing to have two question marks at 3B and 2B..
Semien is a guy who pitchers have to truly account for, have to fear, who lengthens out the Jays lineup.. Biggio is not. Who plays great defense. Losing Semien will be a major loss, if they don’t upgrade 3B at least.
They lose Semien, and Springer keeps getting hurt, which is very likely judging by his injury history, and this lineup won’t have another 183plus run differential again, or whatever it was. The point of the off season is to do all, to get better. Now to settle on Biggio. Biggio can’t even be a true utility player, considering he had trouble catching a fly ball in the outfield. And his infield defense is average at best, but it’s below average probably, so putting him at 2B or even worse, at 3B, will only hurt the Blue Jays and won’t make them better then what they were this previous season.
Jays won 91 games and still didn’t make it to the post season, putting Biggio back at 2B won’t help them try to make it next season. While also losing Robbie Ray on top of that.
Jays are done with the days, of “seeing” what guys have to offer. Jays put Biggio back at 2B, then it’s cause they made a major upgrade at 3B. Jays are in win now mode, they traded Martin and SWR for Berrios.. Jays have to make winning moves, not throw stuff at the wall and hope it sticks, and hope you remain just as potent as they were this past season. Come on now … Those days are gone.
I agree Biggio will likely be at 2b and the jays will be fine.
“Do or do not, there is no try.”
– Yoda
The Blue Jays need a new manager before they do anything. After watching Chuckles cost them so many games throughout the year with his inability to manage at the major league level is disheartening. He just took some of the best individual seasons from many players, some historic, and flushed them for nothing. He let it come down to having to make a late season push just to get a sniff. of nothing…….give me a break. They should have taken the division easily considering how other teams performed and their injuries and Covid troubles.
They need a catcher too Jansen is not the answer even with his hitting FINALLY showing up in September. Jansen can execute the teams game plan but he can’t make in game adjustments when pitchers are starting to struggle or teams realize how the Jay’s pitchers are attacking them. This is why Jay’s pitchers are getting hit three times through the order with Jansen back there. Kirk needs more seasoning and McGuire is a good catcher with no power but is better served as a back end of a platoon or backup..
The Blue Jays biggest need from an outsider’s viewpoint is pitching, especially in their bullpen. When they think that they have addressed their bullpen, add to it some more. Their bullpen is the reason that they are golfing today.
No doubt pitching is important but having a manager who knows how to use a bullpen and when to and not to take starters out or give extra rest and so on, is way more important then just having guys that are good. All the good guys in the world are only as good as the person who is using them.
I got news for you. The manager isn’t going anywhere. The manager manages how the front office wants him to in 2021. These things are planned out every day prior to the game. Welcome to baseball in 2021.
Yankees trade Frazier, Ursulla, Gallo, Sanchez, Wade, Green for Cleveland Ramirez
How does that help them
That offer might get you Harold Ramirez. He is a Cleveland Ramirez.
Frazier’s trade value and stock has been dropping.
I don’t think anyone thinks that Grossman is a star player, he’s a very useful one though. Grinds out at bats ,gets on base at a reasonable clip, some speed and could bat up and down the lineup. Would be a massive upgrade over say…Grichuck who was a black hole in the line up the last 4 months of the season.
And what players were the Jays offering for those guys?!
As I said last year and the Front office waited too long, the BlueJays need 2 Sp, one of them elite and 2 Rp. They need to replace Semien’s production.
As Gillick says, never evaluate a player in September and that goes for Jansen. Very good catcher but he’ll revert to his ways at the plate as the pitchers correct.
That leaves the manager which the Jays need to replace right away. Montoyo cost them too many games.
You would never evaluate a player in September, because of all the minor
League call ups. Doesn’t happen anymore, starting this year.
I’m not sure Robbie Grossman would be an upgrade in the Jays lineup. He’s not a CF so where would he have played?
Jose Ramirez makes more sense but the Jays would have to give up a great deal. 3B Cavan Biggio is a LH bat but he didn’t hit much.
TOR MiLB players SP=L Zach Logue, RP-L Brandon Elset and IF/OF Otto Lopez looks like they have a good future. I doubt TOR would give them up for 1 year of Ramirez or Grossman.
Probably was a consideration before they acquired Dickerson
As I said last year and the Front office waited too long, the BlueJays need 2 Sp, one of them elite and 2 Rp. They need to replace Semien’s production.
As Gillick says, never evaluate a player in September and that goes for Jansen. Very good catcher but he’ll revert to his ways at the plate as the pitchers correct.
That leaves the manager which the Jays need to replace right away. Montoyo cost them too many games.
Jimmer said Semien was a spare part in January. He called Matz a DFA candidate and said Ray doesn’t know where the ball is going. I think we need a new scout with some better eyez.