The Angels announced that the Moreno family is ending the exploratory process to sell the team and will continue ownership throughout the 2023 season and beyond.
“During this process, it became clear that we have unfinished business and feel we can make a positive impact on the future of the team and the fan experience,” owner Arte Moreno says in a statement released by the club. “This offseason we committed to a franchise record player payroll and still want to accomplish our goal of bringing a World Series Championship back to our fans. We are excited about this next chapter of Angels Baseball. We are grateful to Galatioto Sports Partners for their outstanding efforts throughout the process that allowed us to meet with a number of highly qualified individuals and groups who expressed strong interest in the Club. However, as discussions advanced and began to crystallize, we realized our hearts remain with the Angels, and we are not ready to part ways with the fans, players and our employees.”
Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred also released a statement on the matter, as relayed by Sam Blum of The Athletic. “Despite strong buyer interest in the Angels, Arte Moreno’s love of the game is most important to him. I am very pleased that the Moreno Family has decided to continue owning the team.”
Moreno, now 76, announced in August that he would explore a sale of the team. There weren’t many details of the sales process reported in the interim, though Manfred did say in December that the club was hoping to have the sale completed by Opening Day. It appears that Moreno either didn’t find an offer to his liking or had a change of heart and will keep hold of the team for the foreseeable future.
He purchased the team from the Walt Disney Company for $184MM in April of 2003. The Angels were reigning champions at that time, having won the 2002 World Series. They qualified for the postseason a few times in the next few years but have since gone into a dry spell. They have made the playoffs just once since 2009, getting swept by the Royals in the 2014 ALDS and not making it back since. That’s come despite having some superstar players on the roster in those years, include current Angels Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani. The club’s payroll has regularly been in the top 10 in the league in Moreno’s tenure but he’s garnered a reputation as being one of the owners more likely to meddle in baseball decisions, which has made him a divisive figure among the Angels’ fans.
This offseason, despite the potential sale hanging over the club, they have been quite active in pursuing upgrades. They traded for Gio Urshela and Hunter Renfroe while signing free agents Brandon Drury, Brett Phillips, Tyler Anderson and Carlos Estévez. That’s bumped the club’s payroll up to $206MM, per Roster Resource, with a competitive balance tax calculation of $220MM. That payroll would indeed be a franchise record as Moreno stated, with Cot’s Baseball Contracts having their previous high as last year’s $189MM figure. Whether that’s enough for the club to break its postseason drought remains to be seen. They will be looking to chase the Astros, who have dominated the division for years and just won the World Series. The young and resurgent Mariners just grabbed a Wild Card spot last year and the Rangers have been extremely aggressive in pursuing upgrades over the past couple of years.
The continuation of the Moreno regime will lead to various questions that will need to be resolved in the years and months to come. From on-field perspective, the biggest unknown is the future of Ohtani. The unprecedented two-way superstar is entering his final year of club control before he’s slated to reach free agency. Many have been speculating about whether a new owner would be motivated to give Ohtani a mega deal to stay an Angel or would prefer to start fresh by clearing house and beginning a rebuild. Now those questions will have to be directed towards Moreno and whether they can find common ground on a deal or if Ohtani is determined to spend the next part of his career elsewhere.
Off the field, there will be questions about the issues that perhaps led to Moreno pursuing a sale in the first place. A company created by Moreno was attempting to purchase the 150-acre Angel Stadium site from the city of Anaheim with a goal of using the land to develop commercial space, housing, restaurants and more. A tentative agreement was reached at a $320MM price point but the potential sale drew heavy criticism from many in the area and a federal investigation was launched into alleged corruption, violations of state laws, and insider information being shared as part of the deal. Anaheim mayor Harry Sidhu was personally cited in the investigation and ultimately resigned. Anaheim City Council later voted against the deal in May of 2022. The club’s lease on the stadium runs through the end of the 2029 season with a club option to extend that lease through 2038.
There will also be league-wide questions to be answered, as the Angels were one of two teams exploring sales this winter. The other is the Nationals, though that situation appears to be mired in TV rights issues and nowhere near a resolution. For any groups interested in getting into the MLB ownership game, those two paths that appeared open a few months ago now appear to be closed or perhaps untenable. The league has expressed interest in expanding from 30 to 32 teams though Manfred has repeatedly said that he would like each of the A’s and Rays to resolve their respective stadium situations before expansion will be on the table.
This legit made me laugh out loud. Sorry Angels fans. You were sooooo close…..
Oops so long otondi
Shohei Otondi must be hanging out with Arson Judge.
dirkg, well done
So it was a “pretend selling” of the Halo’s? Gotcha…
dirkg – Usually that’s the kind of post we see as the first comment, this time it was the second comment.
This is a perfect time to revisit Ted Kennedy’s “Sammy Sooser and Mike McGwire” speech.
RIP Ted.
youtube.com/watch?v=AggeSjZwx6s
Captain – While Moreno has surely made mistakes, I would still rather have him as an owner right now than John Henry. Moreno loves the team, wants a championship, and is willing to spend to accomplish that goal.
This situation reminds me of the Red Sox pre-2002 when ownership was desperate to break the curse and win a championship under the Yawkey name before selling.
Moreno is up there in years and he’s never won a title. I hope he gets one, and I think one day he will.
Rather have him than Henry? Spoiled Sox fans forget the decades of frustration. Really sad.
What’s sadder is clinging to the past instead of accepting owners do change and so do their priorities Bloom had nothing to do with past titles
He was a drunk and a murderer. Our society chose to make jokes about his behavior rather than bring him to justice.
Moreno loves the team, wants a championship,
===========================
Some people would prefer an owner that DELIVERS championships over an owner that merely wants championships.
But if you prefer an sweatshirt that says “I want a WSC” over multiple sweatshirts saying:
2004 World Series Champion
2007 World Series Champion
2013 World Series Champion
2018 World Series Champion
then be my guest.
Spoiled Sox fans forget the decades of frustration.
==========================
I’ve always said that the Red Sox version of the Stockholm Syndrome. Some fans have been so scarred by 67, 75, 78, 86 & 03, that they cannot accept that we’ve been the Leviathan since Henry took over.
Bloom had nothing to do with past titles
=========================
It’s called Bloom Derangement Syndrome. The article had nothing to do with the RS, and nothing to do with GMs. But you are so obsessed with Bloom hatred, that you still needed to comment on him.
BDS
I have not forgotten how bad the Red Sox team used to be in 80s and 90s at times nor the championship teams
I hope the Angels win one with Trout and Ohtani. Definitely like to see more and different teams get in the mix. Just feels like another that it will be the Astros and Rays in the ALCS and the Rays being outdone by not having enough stacked offense that the Astros have.
And they call Yankee fans arrogant braggarts. As if anyone here does not know what titles the RS have won. Sheesh.
And they say Yankee fans are arrogant braggarts. “The Leviathans.” Good Lord.
4 WS titles since Henry took over for the 2002 season gives them bragging rights for this century.
The Red Sox in the AL and the Giants in the NL can rightfully be called the Leviathans of the 21st century. Combined they have won a third of the WS titles in full seasons from 2001-2022.
Throw in the Yankees two titles and that’s nearly 50% of the WS this century. Go back another 4 years and the Yanks beat the RS 5-4, and that includes a devastating 4 for 5 run, something neither the RS or SFG accomplished. And then of course there’s the 27 wins all time. Baseball is about statistics and history. 27 is a statistic AND history. Saying it doesn’t matter is like saying Ty Cobb doesn’t matter. Walter Johnson doesn’t matter. Ted Williams doesn’t matter. Willie Mays doesn’t matter. Sandy Koufax doesn’t matter. Nolan Ryan doesn’t matter. Well guess what. 27 matters. And it kicks the sh&te out of the RS 5. If I were a Yankees fan, I’d much prefer 27 over 5. Saying it doesn’t matter when baseball is about statistics and history is intellectually dishonest. Deeply dishonest. It’s delusional. Willfully dellusional. It’s for drooling, knuckle-dragging haters.
Go back another 4 years and the Yanks beat the RS 5-4
===========================
I thought long and hard about this, and decided that only this century counts. And that has nothing to do with being a RS fan.
But seriously, Henry might be the per-eminent owner in BB, and easily the best owner the RS ever had. To have someone prefer Moreno over Henry is borderline insane.
I thought long and hard about this, and decided that only this century counts. And that has nothing to do with being a RS fan.
———————————————————
How convenient for you. Of course it has to do with being a RS fan. Baseball is about statistics and history. They matter. 4 out of 5 titles andd 5 out of 14 (’96-’09) is greater than 4 out of 15. And then there’s 27-5. And this century we are at 4 out of 23 vs. 2 out of 23. Not so very different.
The 21st century started in 2001. All new centuries start with year 1.
The Astros and Cardinals do have 2 WS titles apiece in this century. The Yankees have 1 WS title in 2009.
Since no one was talking about the 20th century or even the time prior to Henry buying the Red Sox, we can safely ignore the rest of your rant. .
Next time, try sticking to the subject.
What does the 20th century have to do with the time frame that Henry has owned the Red Sox?
If you say anything other than absolutely nothing, then you are wrong.
We’re talking about bragging. That was the subject I raised in response to Joe Brady’s comments. Yankees fans get called out for bragging about WS victories, and yet RS fans brag much more frequently about far fewer WS victories all the time. Yankees fans get razzed about no victory in 13 years when the RS fans went 86! The Yankees 5 WS victories in the last 27 years are no less significant than the RS 4 victories in the last 23 years. The Yankees 4 victories in 5 years at the end of the last decade were much more historic than the RS 4 victories in 23 years. The Yankees 27 victories all time are much more historic than the RS 5. All of these statistical facts give Yankees fans greater reason to gloat yet only RS fans are allowed to do so. And I have seen far fewer Yankees fans gloating than RS fans over the past three years here. Interesting.
That was not the subject of Joe Brady’s comment. Had enough of you. Far too much actually. Buh bye.
the 1899 boston beaneaters came in 2nd in the championship with a 95 and 57 record .they were outdone by the brooklyn superbas who went 101 and 47.the cleveland spiders came in last place with a record of 20-134.my point is that if we are going to count the 20th century, then we must also inlcude the 19th centuty.
As soon as I read that headline that was my exact same thought.
This is terrible news if you are a die-hard Halos fan like myself. Unless, however Arte has decided to stop his persistent meddling in personnel issues and increase the payroll threshold. Oh and it would help if he could finally make peace with the City of Anaheim and move on to building a new state-of-the-art stadium.
With interest rates rising and there being few Steve Cohens around, their price was not met.
I’m in the minority here and want to give him the benefit. A record high payroll with a much improved team. Let’s see how this goes.
A record high payroll means what? He paid $185M for a team that is now worth $3B. He’s the wealthiest man in the state of Arizona. The team usually has the third highest attendance in the game behind only the Dodgers and Yankees. He has a huge TV deal. $20-$30M additional revenue from Asia due to Ohtani. He has the ability to offer a stadium naming deal to corporations and generate at least another $500M. This franchise makes a lot of money annually. So why is our budget so much lower than the Dodgers? Mets? Yankees? Come on, he needs to spend more in order to compete. And if he doesn’t want to… then he has to break this team down. He better not refuse to trade Ohtani and come away with nothing. Or sign him and not spend to fill out the roster properly– fans will revolt and leave.
I have no opinion on the Angels, and yet I realize this is bad for your team and bad for baseball in general.
Carllafong, it looks like you know better how to spend the man’s money. And you know his books. Arte annually runs a top 10 payroll. 20 other team’s would like that. All people do on here is pile on. The guy is doing something this year. Let’s give him a chance.
State of the arte
Anaheim sued Moreno in November over $300 million in stadium improvements he is apparently personally on the hook for in the new lease according to an LA Times article.
He still has the Skaggs deal hanging over his head.
He also has a $32.5 million lawsuit against him in NYC for a real estate deal he backed out of after signing the agreement.
Moreno is up to his eyeballs in litigation.
Skaggs deal hanging over his head? As tho it Arte was at fault? The only one in the Skaggs deal that was at fault is dead.
Skaggs was a grown man who made poor decisions.
Ohtani needs to get the hell out of there
Hank, the team is being sued over Skaggs and Arte owns the team. The owner is responsible legally regardless of whether they hold personal blame or not.
People in Angels organization went to jail, so others are at fault as well.
Cardinals have higher attendance figures than the Angels. As do a handful of other teams. Angels were 13th in 2022. LA, StL, NYY, Atl only teams above 3m
Also, Angels were #5 in 2019, that’s their recent peak. Have been as low as #16
Other than COVID skewed 2020-2022 attendance, the Angels have been over 3 million and in top 6 in average per game every season since Moreno bought the team.
Skaggs was an addict whose addiction was fueled by Angels employees. One of which is serving a 20 year prison sentence for his actions.
one guy went to jail. the guy supplied the drugs that Skaggs administered into his body. Arte had nothing to do with it. It’s the Skaggs family wanting $$
from Arte because the employed both Skaggs and Kay. What’s Arte supposed to do? Babysit these grown men.?
The Angels have always been #2 in attendance in the AL behind Yankees.
Winslow, Legally? Yes. While Arte didn’t personally supply the drugs, he is responsible for what his employee did.
You lost me at “spend more to compete”. Over half the playoff teams last year spent less than the Angels and they weren’t particularly close. Don’t need to spend more, need to spend better.
Excuse me, but rather than insulting me, what did I say that was factually incorrect? Moreno is in a big market that demands he spend more money to compete. The Dodgers had double the payroll. He has misspent money on horrible personnel decisions that fed his ego, and then cheaped out on the surrounding team and player development. Moreno ravaged his own scouting system– firing long term scouts during Covid and leaving these men without a way to make a living. He has had his minor leaguers living in horrible conditions. He has refused to invest in Latin American scouting and development. This franchise hasn’t fielded a .500 team in eight years. He has absolutely ravaged this franchise. He’s 77 and the caretaker of this franchise for the public. What exactly is he going to buy at 77 being the wealthiest man in the state of Arizona that he can’t buy now? And yes, I can tell you that Arte is making a lot of money in a lot of areas I did not list– great for him, no problem, but with that comes a public responsibility. And that includes a stadium/condo/shopping center development deal that will make him another billion. I don’t want to him crying poor, or guys like you somehow defending him as this great spender. Spend more. Spend wiser.
Yep, this means Ohtani will be wearing Dodger blue or orange socks for the Giants next year.
Why you ask?
“This offseason we committed to a franchise record player payroll …” Arte constantly wants to to sound like he plays with the big boys, but to sign Shohei next year, he’s going to need to plow through that luxury tax barrier. And quite honestly, I’m not sure he should. That payroll with Trout, Rendon, and Ohtani would be ridiculously top heavy.
If there’s a bright side—only 4 more years of Rendon on the books!
@dirkg, it seems to me the Angels win either way: retain Ohtani for $50 mil/yr or spend it on several top players.
They only win either way if they play their cards correctly. As soon as they know Ohtani won’t sign he needs to be moved immediately for the biggest return package possible– and yes, then they have that $50M to spend on top of what they get back. But I prefer to keep Ohtani and spend on the Renfroes, Urshela’s, Drurys, and keep a solid core around Ohtani and Trout. But if Moreno gets stubborn and refuses to trade him this organization will take a major step backwards.
He needs to be moved immediately if he won’t sign? How about we wait to see if they are competitive first?
Or Padres brown or Yankees pinstripes or Mariners blue or Mets blue and orange or Cubbie blue.
If the small market Padres can afford multiple $300 million players, then a top 5 revenue team like the Angels can afford those 3 plus whatever supporting pieces they need to contend.
It depends on the owners willingness to allow his GM to do his job without interference while taking payroll to the CBT threshold and higher.
Ohtani won’t get $50 million AAV. Something like $40-43 million AAV over 10 years.
How many “top players” are you gonna get with $50 million? Probably 2, at that point you are better off paying Ohtani who even with a 6 man rotation is worth about 1.5 star players. And most importantly, Ohtani has got to b the most unique player in the game from a marketing aspect. He captivates audiences in both traditional MLB market and all across Asia.
He’ll get $50M a year. Every team in baseball is interested in him.
He counts as two superstar players basically so he is going to get unprecedented money.
Angels have been using a 6 man rotation to accommodate extra rest for him in rotation. So although his talent his by all means that of two players, roster and performance wise to the team he’s coming in at around a player in a half. The sixth starter being used is a weaker pitcher, even weaker than the traditional 5th starter on most rotations. Also kind of negates the extra roster spot. So in reality as far as roster goes he’s about 1 and a half players.
If you’re an Angels fan, the biggest immediate downside to Moreno remaining is you’ve lost Ohtani. He’s not signing an extension at this stage, so that means Arte has to outbid the market AND Ohtani would have to want and stay. He’s already indicated frustration with the Angels losing. A new owner would indicate a new direction for the team, which could help with negotiations, but now Ohtani knows nothing has changed.
My guess now is Ohtani doesn’t remain an Angel the full season unless the Angels are strongly in contention.
How about we wait to see if they are competitive first?
======================
Because that lowers the price. I said the same thing about Devers this year. What needs to be done is for the Angels to figure out how they can go, and see if Ohtani accepts. If not, he has to go on the market.
They finished 13 games out of the playoffs, with only 73 wins. It’s hard to make a case for them being a contender.
$430 million is unprecedented money.
@Tigers3232, good points. It’s hard to look at the demerits of Ohtani because he’s so damn good and fun to watch. But I was saying this the last two seasons that he forces his team into two *possible* bad scenarios.
1) As you mentioned, he basically mandates a 6th starter that is probably a bullpen piece or a AAA pitcher on another squad. Plus as a team, you have to *pay* another MLB starting pitcher (which isn’t cheap). To think of it another way, imagine when the Rangers signed deGrom, they also had to sign Zach Grienke. It was mandatory. That’s a tougher decision and a bigger chunk of payroll.
2) He occupies your DH slot for *most* of the season. Albert Pujols clearly had much left in the tank and would have been the DH for the Angels for the rest of his career. Trout could use more DH days. Rendon could use more DH days. Last year, especially, Walsh could have used more DH days with his condition. It puts pressure on the everyday players to perform *every* *day*. Scioscia was a master at properly using the DH spot for giving his players breathers. It’s a way to give players somewhat of a day off while not taking their bat(s) out of the lineup. As a manager, you lose this flexibility.
I’m sure all 30 teams would be happy to deal with these 2 scenarios, but they are indeed negative impacts to a team. And bottom line, however you want to slice it, they are impacts that can affect wins.
dirkg- He does take the DH spot and a 6 man rotation, but he is great emergency OF. with a great arm. Another thing to remember is that if you make the playoffs he takes one playoff roster spot, but they don’t need to rest players and you probably go to a 4 man rotation.
The Angels 6th starter was Syndergaard and he made 15 starts and pitched 80 innings with a 3.83 ERA, 3.95 FIP and better than league average peripherals. That is typical for 6th starters. Look at the 4 teams that utilized a 6 man rotation for at least part of last season.
Using a 6 man rotation “cost” the Angels 4 starts by Ohtani or 12.5% of the possible starts if they utilized a 5 man rotation.
Other than Trout, Ohtani was by far the best hitter on the Angels and top 15 in baseball by measure of both OPS+ and wRC+ . Who else would you want as the DH? Other than Trout, who should ever take an at bat away from Ohtani?
Everyday position players are supposed to perform, ummm, every day. If they are DHing, then someone who is not as good is playing their position and they are taking at bats away from one of the best hitters on the squad. That hurts the team and costs them wins.
Neither of those things are negatives. In any way.
@Tim Stewart, I hear you and for those that remember, Ohtani has played OF for the Angels. He literally can do it all. Quite the player.
What’s interesting is that we have yet to see him in the playoffs, so we don’t know how he’ll be managed. On MLB Radio the other day, they were saying Ohtani may actually hurt a team in the playoffs because he is used to the 5 days off with the 6-man rotation. Often in the playoffs, SPs pitch on 3 or 4 days rest. Is he capable of that? And if so, do you still remove him from the batting order the day before he pitches? Imagine taking out one of your best hitters out in a crucial playoff game.
He’s a fascinating player, especially for a baseball nerd like me.
Thats what Trout got
@Pads Fans, I think you went to mlb.com and sorted Angels pitching by descending innings to come up with Syndergaard as the 6th starter. I would love to use your scenario considering it would make my point that the Angels had to needlessly expend $13M for a 6th starter, but we all know Syndergaard was brought in as the 2nd starter behind Shohei.
In looking at the 2022 depth chart, the real 6th starter was Reid Detmers. Detmers pitched a no hitter and had a good year. But no matter how much we want to throw out numbers, going from 5 to 6 starting pitchers means Shohei was not on the mound for approximately 5 starts. That’s almost a month of starting pitching. And the Angels had to carry and pay an extra starter on their roster.
And I’m sorry man, but your last comment is from a narrow fan perspective; not from a player’s view. I was fortunate to play college ball and I can’t imagine what playing near 162 games at the highest level must feel like. Cal Ripken was called Iron Man for a reason. ALL players need days off. The best managers understand this. I mentioned Scioscia and today, Terry Francona is a master at keeping his players fresh.
Trout was already under contract for $66.5 for the 2019 and 2020 seasons. He got an additional 10 years and $360 million for his age 29-38 seasons. A record AAV and total at the time.
A 10 year, $433 million deal for Ohtani would crush that deal and any current contract.
Do you really think he will get much more than that? Are you saying that he is more valuable than the 2018 version of Trout, a guy who was being called the best OF of all time back then? Maybe he is. Ohtani has certainly done unprecedented things.
Maybe since he is going into his age 28 season, Ohtani will get a 12 year deal that takes him through his age 39 season. Do you think he would still get an AAV that matches Verlander and Scherzer? Maybe? Or maybe he gets the AAV that Judge got over 12 years. 12/480?
As long as he stays relatively healthy this season, Ohtani’s next contract will set records.
Actually, no. I looked at who he pitched behind in the rotation.
You are correct. All players need a day off. That means NOT being the DH that day. It means a day off. Scioscia was great at that because he did NOT DH his best everyday players. He sat their behinds on the bench to actually get some rest. Pujols was not a good everyday player anymore when Scioscia was forced to DH him because Moreno wanted him in the lineup every day. .
Regardless of your status as a college player, everything I said is empirically correct about MLB.
“Empirically correct about MLB”. Okay man, you got it.
@Dirk, I absolutely agree most teams would love to have this dilemma. I was just addressing the common misconcieved notion that he is worth 2 roster spots straight up.
As far as him as a DH, I think he might be on one of worst teams possible to monopolize DH spot. With Trout going through his 30’s and having some health issues, that DH spot could keep his bat in lineup while mitigating some of injury risk.
@Tigers3232, spot on. When star players age, they need those days off the field, but not out of the lineup. Having Ohtani at DH forced the Angels hand to play Pujols at 1B. Plus Trout shows that his health is a constant question mark. Rendon is another poster boy this.
dirkg – I don’t think that is much of an issue because. that is used mostly because you have one or two good starters. More times than not a pitcher on short rest there is a drop in performance. Some have the ability to do this most do not. I would not do more than one start on short rest unless he has done it in the past. There are plenty of stud pitchers that have failed . To say he hurts a team is just crazy.
@Tim, it is not to say he hurts the team by them resorting to a 6 man rotation. It is just stating that in doing so they are not truly getting a 2 for 1 roster spot as is the often misconception. As for the DH situation Ohtani occupying the DH spot does kind of hurt the Angels, as it would if it was any other player. This is no fault of his whatsoever, just the unfortunate situation with players such ad Trout and his health.
You are completely off the mark. Ohtani generates $20-$30M additional revenue from Asia– that’s on top of what he generates here. And he puts fannies in the seats. Try to get a ticket the day he pitches– prices soar. All of this is before we get into his actual production on the field and his worth. If he makes Moreno $30M extra, that means the net cost is $20M for a guy who is in the top 5 in hitting and Pitching. He’s a bargain at $50M. If the Angels won’t pay it the Dodgers and Mets will– amongst others.
Yours is a bizarre take. The team has already said he’ll be pitching every 5th day in a six man rotation. He doesn’t take days off at the plate. He generates and extra $30M a year in Asian revenue. This guy is a bargain at $50M. For reference– Rendon is making $36M.
@carllafong, I’m not sure you understand the points being made here. Nobody is saying Shohei is not going to make around $50M a year (which he is) and certainly nobody is downplaying his Asian monetary ties. The point here is that the Angels, especially, are not really constructed to maximize Shoheis value. And vice versa. A team with pitching depth and a relatively younger position core is the best fit. The Dodgers come to mind here. Or a wealthy team looking for a core player to build around. This screams the Giants. The Angels already have a core player, aging stars, with a hefty payroll. I’m an Angels fan, but understand the team and business challenges either way.
There not using a 6 man rotation this year. Ohtani is pitching every 6th day. they’ll just use a spot starter once a month when they don’t have a day off that week.
Tigers3232 – I think the placement of that response was suposed to be about in the playoffs. dirkg posted
“What’s interesting is that we have yet to see him in the playoffs, so we don’t know how he’ll be managed. On MLB Radio the other day, they were saying Ohtani may actually hurt a team in the playoffs because he is used to the 5 days off with the 6-man rotation. Often in the playoffs, SPs pitch on 3 or 4 days rest. Is he capable of that? And if so, do you still remove him from the batting order the day before he pitches? Imagine taking out one of your best hitters out in a crucial playoff game.”
To say he would hurt a playoff team because he can’t pitch on 3 or 4 days rest. Many stud pitchers have not pitched well on 3 days rest in the playoffs. I think history shows that can be very risky for any stud pitcher. Really anyone they would start on 3 days rest is someone they think is dominate and yet many have not pitched well. I think Ohtani can pitch on 4 days rest for start or two. I should have added that Ohtani won’t be sitting the games before he pitches. He stopped that in 22. He batted before, during and after games he pitched. He will not miss playoff games to rest.
@Plug, inside reports say they’re still in on a starter for that 6th spot. Wacha is still on their radar. Plus in house options of Canning and Barria are still on the table.
And with Shohei (Japan), Sandoval (Mexico), and Barria (Panama) all pitching in the World Baseball Classic, the Angels have some starting pitching bandwidth to explore in spring training.
dirkg – Silseth is also another solid option.
@Tim, yep, Chase Silseth is another good example. Say that name 10 times fast. I can’t do it.
I take it you don’t understand what the word means. That is understandable after reading your posts. Google is your friend.
And you do? Your ignorance of the game is showing dirk
Dirk, I don’t see the Angels signing another SP for the 6th spot. Why? And what FA of any importance would want to sign with them at the 6th spot, when that spot is pitching once a month. It Reeks of Silseth called up to spot start when needed for that spot.
Four different pitchers started 22+ games for Angels last season Lorenzen started 18 and Thor 15. And then 29 spot starts mixed among others. Try and justify it any way u like, but Angels will have to carry a 6th starter or call one up throughout the season at the expense of a relief pitcher or bench bat. The $ associated with that 6th spot is not the point, the point is he is not truly a 2 for 1 value as far as roster space. That is not a bad thing it is just reality, he is still worth around a roster spot and a half all at well above avg production.
he wont get 50 mil.maybe 40 or so
great point 6 man rotations historicaly havent worked very well.maybe he could learn to play first base or right field,and learn to pitch every 5th day?
The Angels have said they are not going with a 6 man rotation. I am quite sure they will give Ohtani an occasional start off, but with their depth, no one has to be added to be that once a month or once every other month starter.
Minasian the GM of Angels has already stated he expects team to deploy 6 man rotation again in 2023. Also Ohtani’s agent sounded reluctant when asked about Ohtani pitching in a 5 man rotation.
mlbtraderumors.com/2022/10/angels-gm-perry-minasia…
si.com/mlb/angels/news/angels-news-halos-likely-to…
He didn’t get as much money as he thought. What a load of bs statement. I knew it would be but wow he really laid it on.
While I totally understand the thought process behind this comment, the timeframe doesn’t add up. Condos have taken longer to sell than what Arte had the Angels on the block for.
Reports coming in are saying the bids were actually high, but he got cold feet. I’m not affiliated with the Angels, but I’ve met Arte a few times and I can absolutely see him getting cold feet.
Yup, without the Angels Arte is just another rich guy. With owning the team, he’s famous. I think he likes his fame to much.
I think there’s some truth to this.
@dirkg; You’re absolutely right. Reporting is that he had at least 5 bidders willing to pay at least $2.5 billion and the initial bid deadline wasn’t even due until February (meaning it was still early and more could submit initial bids and the bidders that were in hadn’t started biding against each other yet).
My view is that Artie was burned by the Angel Stadium deal (which he had worked on closing for years) suddenly burning up and requiring him and the team to go back to nearly square 1 with the city. I completely get having that happen, getting fed up and wanting to just cash out and leave the issue for the next owner. Timeline works out. News about the corruption probe came out May 24th and the next day the City cancelled the deal. Artie announced he was exploring selling the team nearly 3 months later (Aug. 22). 3 months sounds about right for the time it would take for him to consider the decision, to find and hire an investment bank and for the investment bank to do the initial leg work necessary before the announcement.
Then, a day under 8 months since the stadium deal collapsed (Jan. 23rd), giving time for Artie’s frustration with the City to subside (and perhaps having since had positive talks about reinitiating negotiations), finishing the baseball season, having an active (but understated off season) and now getting closer to spring training, Artie recognized that he still enjoys owning the team and decided that he’s not ready to sell.
Plus, being the billionaire that he is and recognizing that (outside of his family) his lasting legacy will be his time spent owning the Angels, he likely decided that he wants to make a bigger long-term impact on the team,,,whether that means putting in the extra resources necessary to win a WS ring, or simply being the owner responsible for finally resolving the stadium issue.
*insert angels fans crying of anguish here*
I live in the San Gabriel Valley and I could hear the cries of agony all the way from Orange County
Sounds more like sobbing into our pillows at the moment. We’ll try and keep it down though, sorry about earlier.
Something is amiss here. I can’t remember a team going up for sale and then being pulled off the market. Guessing, Moreno had a set price in mind, be it $2B or $2.25B, and the bids were coming in lower and he wasn’t willing to budge. A second possibility is he sees a better financial option brewing for the Angels that will ultimately lead to an even higher sale price down the road.
LD99, getting the price over $2B could be the unfinished business to which Arte speaks. It’s not on the field, it’s in his bank account.
I want to believe it’s baseball related, Rob, but as I noted, I suspect it is completely financial, either directly or indirectly.
Lord99 I was thinking it was all an ego trip from day 1. He wanted people to believe he would sell the club and meet with them then comeback and act like the savior to take the Angels back to the WS. I kind of feel for Angel fans but not enough to laugh when I saw this this morning. It is still a bit funny. OK really funny.
You sign Ohtani long term, lock him up and the franchise worth will skyrocket at least a billion. What potential buyers I think are afraid of is the fire sale like the Nationals had. You’d think new ownership would want to keep Juan Soto and Josh Bell right? So I think the price reflected that uncertainty but if you get Ohtani under contract a new owner has more certainty and that will be reflected in the price.
Your belief that signing Ohtani to a long term mega-contract will increase the Angels value a billion dollars indicates that at one time you thought you were the proud owner of the Brooklyn Bridge.
I do think Ohtani is worth 1 billion at least to a team. Really not so much what he does to attract American fans but the Japanese market. Japanese fans want to see their heros, like Hideki Matsui and Ichiro from years back, perform on the biggest stage of all. What other major player can draw Japanese fans better than him? Remember the 2nd best baseball in the world is played in Japan and not only is Ohtani a yearly CY Young contender but MVP too…. It’s those Japanese fans that’s worth a billion that Ohtani draws.
@kingbum
Even the rich people buying MLB teams usually try to offset the financial outlay by cutting payroll and other expenses. The market and the stadium situation has much more to do with the value than any individual employee. New owners would prefer a lower payroll, and to put any blame for loss of a star player or two on the previous regime. The value of a team does not drop when a star player retires, either.
Are you 14? I really hope you aren’t an adult with that comment…
MLB Radio said the other day that the Angels receive around $30M / year from Japanese media/exports/branding in relation to Shohei.
They were arguing if a team signs him for $50M / year, it’s basically only $20M / year when you factor the Japanese revenue. While I understand that basic logic, you’re making huge assumptions like player health and performance. If he goes down with Tommy John again (hopefully not), you’re not getting $30M a year from the Japanese market and thus, on the hook for the full $50M / year for a hurt player.
How much you want to bet that Ichiro is still selling millions in merchandise in Japan?
Japanese fans aren’t going to board a 13 hour flight to watch a baseball game en masse.
As for streaming rights, outside the local home market MLB owns the telecast rights to every team. It’s why as a red sox fan the fledgling NESN streaming app isn’t available to non,new england residents for subscription. Boston was one of the few at the time to first develop their own digital presence for its local TV broadcast right, but, if you want access without a new engkand billing address you need to buy mlb.
So, I can’t see a $1b increase of value or substantial revenue stream from Japan to justify. A little bump maybe. 10, 15m vs a non ohtani, ok.
GASoxFAN – I think what they are talking about is not the streaming, but the NHK games live every game back to Japan. I am not sure how it works, but I would think it would be like the local broadcast rights as it covers only Angel games.
I’m referencing Merch sales from Ohtani Jerseys out in Japan. I was talking about the Japanese-American community that is very vibrant and strong on the West Coast. Yeah regular season games, a 13 hour flight really is a bit much but if the Angels made the playoffs some of the rich businessmen I’m sure would make the flight like they did for Ichiro and Matsui. He has a huge fan base going back to his days playing ball in Japan. It’s like getting a Messi or Ronaldo on your team, an international star.
Kingbum – There are a number of Japanese fans that already make the trip. They sell travel packages with tickets. I am sure for most it is part of a California Vacation and/or visit relatives or friends. I have bumped into a few at stadium lines and at the team store. My college age son and I speak a tiny bit Japanese but my wife is still a citizen and speaks mostly Japanese at work.
@Tim, spot on. Japanese baseball fans will come to games and visit Disneyland while they’re here. There are Angels / Disney packages. The East Coast of the US gets primarily European visitors; here on the West Coast we get the Asian travel market.
This is one of the reasons if not the Angels, I think Shohei is going to the Dodgers or Giants. Maybe the Mariners, but I’m going to assume something in CA. One HUGE factor here is that Shohei will be making a decision for life. Meaning, if he marries and has children, where would he raise them? More than likely in Japan. But if I’m putting the package together for the Angels, I’m pushing the family aspect of Orange County hard.
dirkg – That might be a good idea and also less non baseball related distractions. I think just his overall comfort level here including friendships with Trout, Fletcher and others. I think one area that hurts the Angels is the amount of turnover of coaches and Catchers. I think he liked the starting catchers the Angels have had, but he has to keep starting over with a new catcher. Hopefully, O’ Hoppe will be able to blossom and become a stabilizing force for the position.. Unfortunately, O’ Hoppe will get less of a chance to get familiar with Ohtani, Sandoval and others because of the WBC.
@Tim, that’s a great point regarding the coaches and catchers. I heard that was one of the reasons Nevin was held onto. I know Trout is close to Nevin; not sure about Shohei. But there’s some continuity there.
I know Shohei loved Kurt Suzuki. That was his catcher. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Suzuki brought in house as some “advisory” role. Also Stassi is still in the catching fold to help smooth in O’Hoppe.
All of these factors come into play.
dirkg -I don’t know how he feels about Susuki but I think that was Madon that paired him up but by last year it was mostly Stassy. I liked Susuki, I ‘m a big CSF fan and he of Japanese descent is a good fit, but by 2021 he led the league in errors, and he had a hard time hitting his weight. Stassy had two major head traumas. last year I think he will bounce back a little..
Tim, Totally agree. Stassy should bounce back. I like him as the #2 thou.
Here’s the thing. Do the Angels need another catcher with Stassy and O’hoppe? Nope, not normally. But there’s to much at stake this season, and with that, there’s some BUTTS are on the line. So Perry is trying his a$$ off at getting as many sure fire starters as possible. That’s my take on it.
An unproven rookie and a catcher that has stunk it up recently. Nope. No reason to have some insurance.
I have a feeling that it’s neither “unfinished business” that prompted Moreno’s reversal nor the Angels’ market not developing as Moreno would have liked.
With no indictment of the former mayor forthcoming, Moreno may have concluded the worst of the legal issues surrounding that last stadium deal may have subsided.
@agentx, Yes. That’s related to the second option I was referencing above. It’s still financial related, but he may now see more interesting avenues opening again.
Indeed, LordDgg.
I agree and would argue that Moreno “sees a better financial option brewing” without being in any legal jeopardy himself, which may not have been a given from Moreno or his own legal team’s perspective last May.
It’s not a great borrowing environment right now. Even for the super rich. Those debt service payments aren’t really appetizing.
He’d be better off holding for a couple years
Dude, debt borrowing for people in this world of rarified air has zero to do with what is happening. People are lined up to buy this franchise. It’s like saying that someone is not buying a $20M house because of interest rates. A guy buying that type of house is paying cash. Moreno is 77 and the richest person in the state of Arizona– how many years left do you think he has? If he lives to be 90 he’s got 13-years on the planet. He is not worrying about getting $2B vs. $3B? What will he be able to buy that he can’t buy now?
That’s absolute nonsense. Almost none of these guys become rich by using cash. Do you know how many billionaires have 2 billion liquid dollars to purchase a baseball team in cash?
Interest rates impact everyone. I’ve been an investment banker my whole life. Rich people use a lot of leverage. Arte could find a sale if he wanted to but he can also wait for a friendlier economic environment to sell to get the price he wants.
@Carlla the economy absolutely plays a part. Even if the potential new owner or owner group has the assets to purchase the franchise, those assets are affected by the state of the economy. Their investments and or businesses are worth much less than just a few yrs ago. So unless Moreno was interested in selling at a discounted rate, potential buyers have less in assets to leverage for a purchase of that magnitude. Not to mention the never realized gain in the future from selling of said assets at a low point and not having them free to move back into the market later.
He is going to waiting a long time if he is waiting for interest rates to come down. FED is talking about more raises coming, not lowering.
I don’t think internet rates are the biggest factor. The market as a whole would likely weigh most heavy. That is where the assets being leverages derived from. Any financing rates can be changed to more favorable terms in the future. Losses from selling assets low can notbe undone.
Nonsense? As a person who used to run a bank– I’m going to disagree with you. I did not say that a buyer was paying cash– I simply used an analogy to show that people of extreme wealth do not see finances the same as the average person who would be worried about interest rates. In this particular case, whoever would have bought the franchise would be well aware of the many income streams the franchise has and would be able to assess its value. No one has ever lost money owning one of the major sports franchises. If the franchise value increases by 10% annually the new owner is making more than $300M. Realistically, over the next 10-years it would probably be close to $5B in the increased franchise value. A stadium naming rights deal is probably $500M. My point is that whatever the costs of financing are they pale to the profits and not going to hold anyone back.
The potential buying pool for these potential buyers are the ultra rich. OIn the past 18 months those people have saw their net worths down 30-50%. That absolutely has an impact on pool of potential buyers, in an economic climate such as now a pro sports franchise is a luxury even for the elite.
Or maybe Moreno was selling because of his proximity to the government corruption investigation. Now that he and his family are possibly clear, it’s business as usual. Just speculation on my part.
Bologna. What happened is that he’s 77 and there’s nothing that he can buy that he can’t already buy– and none of it is as fun as owning a baseball team. Factor that with the fact that even if Moreno lives to be 90 that would mean he only has 13 more tries at a championship. Sell the team now and he goes down in history as a feckless owner with a sub .500 record– no one who is a competitive businessman wants to leave that legacy. He had second thoughts in part because he got excited about the potential of this team. I feel like I did the day i was told there was no Santa. He can’t even sell a team correctly.
Lord99, Things that are amiss. Skaggs lawsuit pending. Anaheim lawsuit for stadium improvements pending.
As a Mariners fan, this makes me very happy.
I guess that he is not done Trout-Fishing in America…
That’s why we couldn’t land that Big Arm Starter …. Angels were linked to all the Big Arms and it was exciting for the first time in decades!!! Then they ALL signed somewhere else…. King Scotty must have told everyone that Arte couldn’t sell the team for that big profit and being Scrooge McArte he couldn’t make the deal (too many lawsuits buddy) so now Arte can ride the course and go down with the ship “TRUE CAPTAIN” Hey Arte If u can’t sign Ohtani to that extension before the season starts ewwweee He’s gone … and Big Fish trout is going to demand a trade remember he needs a ring to solidify himself as one of the greats?? Figure it out Arte u are no Cohen
Thank you!
Signed every fan of an AL West team
hopefully, Joe Lacob pivots now and buys the Oakland A’s instead.
Would be nice having an Owner who cares about Winning and would be willing to keep the A’s best players around.. He would really change the Culture around like he’s done with the Golden State Warriors.
Not sure if he would be allowed to Own a team in both the MLB as well as the NBA though. Is there some Rule against that?
Yeah the white sox owner owns the bulls as well
Billionaires bend rules to their favor. If there is one and he wants it and other owners are fine with it consider it done.
Doesn’t the Sox owner own the Bulls, too?
Used to for sure. Not sure how much percentage he had has.
Reinsdorf owns the Bulls, Henry owns the Penguins.
Lacob would probably move the A’s just like he did the Warriors
Why would he move a team that is in the 2nd largest market in the US? How would he move a team that has a lease through 2029?
Lacob would move the A’s for the same reason he did the Warriors. He likes making money.
If Fisher gets his waterfront ballpark he won’t be selling. But that’s a huge if. City of Oakland just elected a new mayor who I hear is even less interested in the A’s than the previous mayor.
And the A’s current stadium deal has a series of options. They aren’t locked into anything.
@josephf: Where did the Warriors move to? They’re still in the bay area. They certainly didn’t relocate to a different market.
The Warriors moved to a different market but you wouldn’t know that would you because you don’t know anything about the bay area.
The Warriors are in the same TV market as they were in Oakland.
@josephf: Understandable considering that I have never been there, isn’t it?
I am and I would rather go to SF than Oakland. I guess it matters to a about 10-30 folks living within 5 miles of the stadium but for most it’s not that big of a deal and the tv and radio stays the same. I would prefer the A’s move to San Jose or Dublin than to Las Vegas or Nashville. I’m a Giants fan but go to A’s games at times when the Giants are out of town or I feel like a afternoon or Morning game. And I will go to either San Jose or Dublin as likely as I would Oakland.
Stan Kroenke owns the Rams and the Arsenal soccer club. At one time before Dr. Jerry Buss, Jack Kent Cooke owned the Lakers and Washington Redskins.
Allen’s own the Seahawks and Trailblazers. There was also talk of him buying into the Sounders I think that stopped when the cancer came back. Then the part that was being sold was split with Wilson owning some and a few others. I think McClemore got a piece too not sure though.
jjd002 – Not sure about EVERY fan of an AL West TEAM.
Interesting. Esp if he makes a massive extension offer to Shohei.
MacGromit;
Nothing is as it seems.
1. The Angels current GM came for the Braves after the 2020 season. Perry has done an exceptional job in just 2 years – getting rid of albatross contracts and making the team a pitching and pitching team. He has the minors loaded with pitching prospects. and coaching staff that are developing both them and the position players.
The current Angels organization very much resembles the Braves. (Think of all the Braves fans that were disappointed when Brian Snicker was brought up as manager.)
2. Even if Othani leaves, that money can be reallocated to bring in a few top-tier players.
3, The Angels will do very well in 2022 and as long as Arte lets Perry run the baseball ops part that team is going to be very, very good for years.
4 If Arte is talking the WS than rest assured the money will be there.
Yeah, maybe because you are delusional. The Angels farm system is one of the worst in baseball, and a team record payroll just means another losing season, since they have no minor league talent outside of the guy that is probably your starting catcher, with absolutely zero experience handling anybody on that staff.
derail76;
Pile on me.
I love going against the grain when the fundamentals are there.
Am almost always right.
Will be right here…..AS LONG AS Arte lets Perry run Baseball Ops.
Arte will never stay out of baseball ops.
@samuel – Who are these pitching prospects that the Angels are “loaded with”? They have zero of them in BA’s top 100. Silseth could be decent, but beyond that, who?
Vtadave, the Angels have a lot of RP/SP Minor league depth, underrated and outside the top 100. If your not in the top 10 or 20, who cares! There all crap shoots!
The Angels’ farm system is in tatters. They are “loaded with pitching prospects?” Where do you get that from? Neither are their coaches developing position players. Their development system is exactly the problem.
Elysian. Their big problem is they had six or seven young to middle age pitchers go down with career debilitating injuries and they are just now recovering.
The Angels never get a top ten pick, and combine that with bad international signings, you have disaster.
ElysianPark – I would NOT say the Angels are LOADED with pitching prospects. I would say they have done much better with Perry. They have been rushed but have still held up and shined. They are not on top lists because they have not played enough yet. Few players with The amount of games played make a top prospect list. If they continue this course I think they will start showing up on lists. Keep in mind the Angels in MLB.com top by team, they Were rated 5th most underrated. The top prospects are mostly from Perry’s short timeframe and Some might see some MLB action before they rise up the lists. Last years AA team WAS loaded with 1st and 2nd year players that dominated and might be called to the majors this year or next. Some are relief pitchers so they tend to not get so much love on those lists. Look for players like , Neto, Quero, Joyce, Silseth to make the lists or hit the majors soon.
And it is 2023, not 2022.
ElysianPark;
Yes, I had some typo’s.
The Angels farm system is fine. No one rebuilds a crummy farm system in 2 years.
You are way over optimistic believing that Arte will pour money into drafting and development. The working and player support system for the young draftees is the poorest in baseball. There are more quality arms in the system, but there is a paucity of potential position players. Maybe Minasian and the Scouting departmental e finally doing s decent job of adding quality to the system but Arte has to commit way more money to development.
Lol at Brian Snicker.
He’s done an exceptional job? The Angels needed a RH hitting first baseman to platoon with Walsh. He cut Pujols. And ate millions.
He needed a LF. He cut Upton after having a great spring. And ate millions.
He’s done nothing with the bullpen. The starting staff has almost nothing to do with him. The best pick he’s had this century, if he’s lucky, will end up a bullpen arm.
He admittedly has made huge mistakes these past two year.
Perry could fart and some people would call it a Devine wind.
I do like Neto though.
What good will that do? They suck with Ohtani now, how will extending him and making him a bigger percentage of the payroll help them?
The team appears to have improved.. and we were just hoping that a new owner would make it even better.. now its guaranteed that Ohtani is leaving, which really, really sucks.
They had the best player of the 2000s decade and the best player of the 2010s decade on the same team forever and did nothing with it. Now they have the best player of the 2010s decade paired with potentially the best player of the 2020s decade and have thus far done nothing. It is really hard to accept the team has improved until you actually see it.
“…have thus far done nothing. It is really hard to accept the team has improved until you actually see it.”
hiflew;
With all due respect, it appears you haven’t been watching.
Want to talk about how bad the pitching is some more?
Arte is all about collecting fancy toys. Not winning.
Isn’t Ohtani a pitcher?
Trout and Ohtani have never played a full season together.
They had ZERO depth behind Rendon, Walsh and Fletcher. All that has changed this year. And who knows, they even may be productive? But if they get hurt again, legitimate major league players will step in and not players who should be at AAA.
Most people think their starting pitching is more than adequate.
Questions mark at short, catcher and bullpen, but there are a lot of differences between this year and last year.
@outinleftfield, I totally get your point. But as time has gone on, I think Artie *does* care about winning (a lot). And he sees that winning puts butts in the seats. The problem is that he has thought that signing the big shiny new toy every year is a path to victory. People that understand baseball know that it’s not. Often just the opposite. Big ticket players absorb needed payroll for other “holes” in the organization. That’s the crux of the Angels the past 9 years (since 2014).
WE ARE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PROBLEM AGAIN.
Same scenario. Artie has pressure to sign the big dog. Shohei is unprecedented. Shohei is Babe Ruth. Shohei will bring world peace! We’ve heard it all.
What Shohei brings to the Angels is too much payroll. Assuming he gets around $50M / year – it’s happening folks – that would put the Angels 2024 payroll for JUST THREE PLAYERS at $126 Million. That’s 50 for Shohei, 38.6 for Rendon, and 37.1 for Trout. Put that in perspective: that payroll alone – for three players – is more than 38% of the entire 2022 MLB teams payroll. One of those three have got to go if you plan on winning any type of meaningful games.
Anthony Rendon’s $38.571 million is an absolute albatross around the Angels’ neck. For 2023, he’s the second highest paid hitter (behind Judge) in the MLB. It’s an albatross because the Angels have gotten so little from him and nobody is taking on that contract in a trade.
So that leaves Trout. So do you trade Mickey Mantle or not sign Babe Ruth?
Or blow your payroll to holy he!! and hope for the best. One alternative would be a stupid long contract with a lower AAV. Any way you slice it, 2023 is going to one epically interesting season…
No evidence that Arte cares about winning
I don’t think the Angels are in the middle of trouble.
They were in the middle of Trouble when they went through four years where their only starter not to get hurt and have a full season was Rickey Nalasco.
Trouble? Even signing Ohtani they’d be ok. As long as Arte is willing to spend 20m over the tax for 3 years. They’ll have cost controlled pitching in that time. They can fill in the positional spots like this year around him.
Plugnplay – I agree, at least it’s not as bad as it seems. Over the next 3 years the Angels should be in a position to start adding more minor league players. The tax threshold should also be increasing .
If Moreno was interested in winning, he would have allowed his GMs to do their jobs instead of signing players like Rendon and Pujols over their objections and refusing to sign pitchers to long term deals and scuttling trades multiple times including Pederson/Stripling and Ohtani.
cbssports.com/mlb/news/four-reasons-why-the-angels…
No. Moreno doesn’t care about winning. He cares about people in seats because he gets paid for every ticket sold over 2.6 million as others have pointed out and he cares about people watching the games because that pays him too.
You are missing the point. Arte doesn’t care about winning. He cares about star players that will fill seats and put eyeballs on the TV or other video of his team.
We filled the seats when Pujols was there and the team stunk. We fill the seats to see generational talent Trout play. We fill the seats to see one of a kind talent Ohtani play. It doesn’t matter if the team wins. It only matters if Arte the Carney can sell tickets and merchandise.
I’m sorry for your loss Angels fans
When I read the headline only one thing went through my head: that music that plays when someone loses on the Price is Right
Bye Ohtani.
Curious how Angels fans feel about it. Yes he meddles with baseball operations a lot but he does spend money even when the team doesnt feel like a contender. Hoping the Angels make the playoffs in 2023 so we can finally see Ohtani and Trout play together on a big stage
id rather have the angels ownership than the pirates ownership. at least moreno attempts to win
That is the thing. Arte has no interest in winning. He has an interest in filling seats so he can rake in more profits.
He would not allow Ohtani to be traded when Minassian had a deal that was larger than the Soto deal last season. NOT because it was not a good enough deal. Because Trout was on the IL at the time and there would be no draw to bring people to the park.
We got Pujols past his prime because he sold tickets and jerseys. Arte said that was the most profitable deal he has ever made. He didn’t care that Pujols stunk. Just that people came to see him as he approached milestones.
One deal after another that the GM didn’t want, but Arte insisted on. THAT is what we have dealt with the whole time he has owned the team.
Arte Moreno spends on two or three marquee names to sell tickets. He surrounds them with low cost mediocrity and has-beens. It’s a travesty what he’s done to the club and has allowed the Dodgers and Padres to surpass the Angels. The fans deserve better. Mike Trout deserves better.
The Angels were negotiating their TV contract when they came from nowhere on Pujols. I’ve always thought the TV station upped the offer $250 million if they would sign Pujols. That would make it a profitable contract no matter what Pujols did d on the field.
the angels signed the tv deal with a extra billion for signing pujols.
How do you know they had a bigger deal for Ohtani than Soto. Angel fans will go to games regardless if Ohtani and Trout are not in the line up. Pujols was a profitable because FOX gave him a big TV Deal. More fans bought Trout and Ohtani jerseys than Pujols.
@outinleftfield Hey, just a cotton pickin’ minute! Where was it EVER reported that Minasian had an offer for Ohtani in-hand that was worth more than the Nats got for Soto? And where was it reported that Moreno vetoed it? This is my first time hearing either of those things.
@aragon Who besides you says the Angels got an extra $1b on their TV deal for signing Pujols?
@CardsFan57 The TV station didn’t increase their offer a single cent because of Pujols.
And no. Saying “It’s pretty obvious when they got significantly more TV money than expected and they signed that deal right after they signed Pujols” isn’t proof. What it is is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Pretty much the epitome of it in fact.
Who has more of an ownership mess? LA staying under Morenos control? Or Houston with Crane running rogue??
The thing that’s odd about this is that a winning team also sells tickets. I guess it’s harder to build a good team than to just sign some high profile names.
I have heard Angels fans give this reasons many times, but I’ve never seen an actual source to support it.
fox knows, arte does and you, obviously don’t know but are loud. the worst combination.
Did you know that the Angels are one of only two teams that gt paid when attendance passes a certain point?
The Angels get $2 dollars per ticket sold over 2.6 million. Since he bought the team, the Angels averaged 3.25 million in attendance from 2003 to 2019 then COVID kind of messed things up since then
Any wonder why Moreno has seemed to be more interested in selling tickets than winning?
Were you in in the negotiations jimtgegoat? I find it very hard to believe it wasn’t discussed.
I’m not solving a logic problem or mathematical proof. I’m using inductive reasoning to find the most likely scenario. I’m sure there are people in your life intimidated by your pseudo intellectualism. Don’t count me among them.
Were you in the negotiations? No? Then you saying that Pujols got the Angels extra TV money is just as disingenuous as me saying he didn’t. Claims of the type you are making require actual proof.
So Fox and Arte told you this? If not then save your breath.
The diference is that I said I think that’s what happened. You’re insisting that I stop saying I think that’s what happened. That’s not going to happen. It doesn’t require proof. I’m allowed to think that’s what happened with or without your approval.
Au contraire it does require proof.
Go away.
Just call him JimtheMute and hit that little button. I just did.
Sam Blum mentioned it in an article in the Athletic in early August, but I am having problems searching on the mobile website. That should narrow it down to make it easier to find if you have better internet chops than this old man.
@BaseballisLife You are outinleftfield’s other account. You are also Pads Fans, websoulsurfer and PLTuna. Yep.
You liked your comment with all your other accounts? What happened to your harambe account? It get banned?
That’s exactly what Pads Fans says… verbatim.
What do you get when you have an owner who just wants money and an owner who has wasted years of Trout? Seats on the couch watching the playoffs
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFCK is my response! (I literally yelled this out)
Yet I had a comment deleted for saying the s word with a * in it. Which is allowed on like all radio and tv shows.
We hate it. We would have had parades down Katella, State College, and Gene Autry if he sold. We would have been celebrating in the streets. We would have been singing Ding Dong the Witch is Dead at the top of out lungs.
Now all there is left is depression knowing that Trout’s chance at playing in another playoff is gone. That Ohtani is gone at or maybe before the end of the season. That Arte will make us suffer through teams with big stars and no chance of winning for as long as he lives.
F it. See you opening day.
Outofleftfield-Jimgoat and myself asked you,Where was it reported that Perry had a bigger offer for Ohtani that the Soto deal? Answer the question!!!
Can’t say what OILF was talking about, but here is my two cents.
Sam Blum of the Athletic said that the Padres offered CJ Abrams, MacKenzie Gore, Robert Hassell III, Luis Campusano, Reiss Knehr, and Joshua Mears for Ohtani at the deadline last season. That was confirmed by Acee of the SDUT, although he added that a catching prospect would have been coming to the Padres also.
In November, Chris Kirschner of the Athletic reported that the Yankees offered Torres, Peraza, and Dominguez.. I can see why that was not close to enough.
I am sure those are not the only offers they received.
the problem is oathni was never available
“OILF” is you lol
I checked and none of those dudes ever said the Padres offered all that for Ohtani. 2 months ago Andy McCullough suggested Ohtani for Blake Snell, Jackson Merrill, Dylan Lesko and Samuel Zavala but that a trade proposal not an actual reported offer.
Why would the Angels want Snell the rental if they are trading Ohtani????
@TLH Ask Andy McCullough. He’s the one who suggested it.
Ohtani was available. It was reported in The Athletic, OC Register, and LA Times that Minassian was in negotiations with multiple teams. Then just before the all star break Trout went on the IL and Arte pulled Ohtani off the table. It was widely reported including on this website that the reason was that Arte didn’t want to trade Ohtani with Trout on the IL.
Then you didn’t check. Go read the Athletic. The article from Blum is there.
If it’s there then you would have no reason not to post the link.
If you looked you would not have reason for the link to be posted. You have the name of the writer. Now go look.
“Links are your friend when you are the one making the statement. Other than a blog, I can find nothing about it. Can you? If so, post a link.” – outinleftfield a month and a half ago
outinleftfield and Pads Fans are the same guy Jim
@TLH Even if they are the same guy if they can come up with a link to back up what they are saying that is all that matters to me right now.
@outinleftfield Right. I’m going to assume that Sam Blum didn’t actually say that because you refused to post the link. I know you saw my comment because this site has a notification bell now. Very interesting that you demand others to post links for their claims but think the same logic doesn’t apply to you.
No. I refused to help your lazy behind because you never, ever post anything of value or factually correct. No reason to. If you want the info, look it up. Otherwise FO.
This is coming from you, the guy who said that Eric Hosmer can’t refuse an outright assignment without forfeiting his remaining contract and that Spencer Strider got credited with two years of service time for 2022?
Actually the reason to post it is to prove that you were telling the truth and so that Jim will shut up and go away.
cbssports.com/mlb/news/four-reasons-why-the-angels…
Padres offered their farm system and future for Ohtani?!
The Angels/Moreno were foolish to turn down that deal!
Hassell III a future All Star OF who can play all 3 positions?!
CJ Abrams a young rising star SS?
Campusano a young rising star catcher?
Two top pitching prospects and more?!
That is the young contending core of a team that could have vaulted the Angels into the playoffs in a few years!!!
And that was a big mistake.
Angels should even take offers from the Dodgers.
Trading with the Dodgers would require a premium return
on top of the already high return since they are competitors in the same market.
The Dodgers have the premium young talent @ AAA, AA, A
and on the major league team to make the Angels serious
AL West Division and Wild Card Contenders for the foreseeable future.
Ohtani and 3B Anthony Rendone to the Dodgers for:
1
Diego Cartaya C
2
Bobby Miller RHP
3
Miguel Vargas 3B
4
Michael Busch 2B
5
Ryan Pepiot
6) OF Andy Pages
By the averages, one of those prospects will end up being a MLB average player or better. Because they were so highly rated, maybe that one becomes an all star.
AJ Preller was enamored with Ohtani when he came to the states and he still is. He obviously felt having Ohtani for 2 playoff runs was worth that.
When he didn’t get Ohtani he pivoted to Soto and gave up pretty much the same players. Seems he felt that a proven superstar is worth that many good but unproven prospects.
How fans of any team likes their owner? I seen tons of Yankees Cardinals Red Sox fans complain they don’t spend enough money. Only fans I don’t often see complaining are dodgers and mets padres last few years.
Yeah, it’s very easy to arm chair gm/owner and also to spend other people’s money.
YourDreamGM: “How fans of any team likes their owner? I seen tons of Yankees Cardinals Red Sox fans complain they don’t spend enough money. ”
Angels are in a big MLB market with a very loyal fan base. We haven’t had a winning season since 2014. We haven’t won a playoff series since 2009. I think this is a bit different.
Yes, he spends–he spends money foolishly, for the most part.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. We are so hosed.
god damnit, today was already rough and now its worse.
The rest of the Moreno family must be bummed out. Daddy was about to have billions of dollars in cash to give out; instead he has at best a .500 MLB team that probably loses money.
Are you kidding? The team has over $500 million in revenue. He is raking in profits hand over fist.
What he does have is a $300 million bill for stadium improvements that if he sells must be paid immediately if the team is sold. If he stays, he can stretch out not paying it until the lease is up in 2029.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
lol
Great way to start the week. Yay…
Well, from some Angel fans prespectives, that’s unfortunate.
Please go away arte
Sell the team… in THIS economy???!!! (Bourgeois laughter)
he could have gotten a palette of eggs.
Maybe this is a sign he’s going to change his name to Arte MorenOhtani and give Shohei $600M
What? Now that’s odd.
It doesn’t matter, the Angels will still be more or less irrelevant.
What won’t change is that this is the Year of the Mariner, at least by my lunar calendar, which hasn’t been wrong yet.
My condolences to Angels fans.
The most Monday post possible
Great news as I don’t like change and he tries to make the right moves. The way to go is to sell minority interests to investors and keep majority control. Hire professionals to rework the Real Estate Deal with some public infrastructure and affordable housing benefits to the Community.
You are a NY fan. Mets I think. So please. To win the Angels need Arte gone.
Angels are my AL Team on the West Coast.
Then you should be incensed that we are cursed with more years of Arte.
@outinleftfield he is no Mets fan more of a Mets hater, I live and work a few miles from the BigA. Arte voted against Cohen so he did not endear himself to Mets fans. As a long time Mets fan who goes and roots for the Angels for the last 12 years out here, doesn’t conflict and if it did a good problem to have, everyone Angel Honk knows Arte is the problem!
Meant Robrock. He is a Mets fan.
Yes, Arte is the problem and now we are cursed with more years of his profit taking instead of winning.
You don’t like change–even when it is direly needed? He tries to make the right moves–and he often fails. He needs to sell.
Outside of Vernon Wells I can’t find fault with any of his moves. They were well intended and proper some just haven’t worked out.
Josh Hamilton was an addict and they are great deceivers as I have learned from experience. He cut him which was the right call.
Rendon has been injured but prior with the Nats he was great.
I would have hired Joe Maddon in a heartbeat having won a WS with the Angels in 2002 and breaking the curse with the Cubs after a great run with the Rays. Still scratching my head on why he failed.
There is a cultural issue in the Organization however that needs to be changed.
Culture rolls downhill. It starts at the top. That is Arte. The problem is the culture Arte breeds is one of profits, not winning. The only way to change that culture is to change where the culture rolls down from.
He did draft Mike Trout and woo Ohtani to the Angels which are monumental accomplishments you have to give him that and he signed Vlad and fielded a playoff powerhouse throughout his first 10 years.
He didn’t draft Trout. Arte has nothing to do with the draft.
He didn’t woo Ohtani. Eppler did that. Masterfully. Unfortunately, Arte overrode Eppler’s decisions over and over again. He refused to allow Eppler to sign a pitcher to a multi-year deal. Eppler wanted to go all in on pitching in 2020. Arte chose to sign Rendon over his objections. Eppler wanted Showalter. Arte gave the job to Maddon. Eppler wanted the Houston bench coach. Arte refused and signed an “experienced manager” he was familiar with in Ausmus instead. There was the Upton override before that.
There was a reason that Dombrowski turned down the opportunity to even interview for the Angels job after Eppler was fired.
Arte is the problem. To win, he has to go.
Fine credit Eddie Bane and Greg Morhardt then for drafting Trout but who signs their paychecks and credit Arte for twice extending him.
Maddon was the right hire but I don’t understand why it didn’t work.
Has Buck ever won a WS? His teams do after he leaves however.
The Angels were in the playoffs for 7 of the 1st 10 years Arte was the owner. Then Reagins got tired of his meddling and quit
Thanks for reminding me of Reagins who was responsible for the Vernon Wells trade.
He was fired. He didn’t quit.
Actually Arte signed 2 HOF 1st Ballot FA’s in Vlad & Pujols, the latter happening miraculously before Christmas at the winter meetings when my Mom survived 13 hours of surgery for pancreatic cancer at Mount Sinai hospital. He goes the extra mile to win.
Last year was depressing for him and us and perplexing as I liked the team early on great energy things were clicking then the losing streak and the season folded. That plus the Skaags story and the collapse of his Stadium deal and I can understand why he felt it was time to throw in the towel and cash out, But Arte is a fighter and decided to keep fighting to bring home a Championship.
To clarify Vernon Wells was a very nice well spoken individual I had met him but he was the worst contract in MLB at the time what I refer to as a JP Ricciardi special which should have been avoided.
Josh Hamilton signing I originally was ecstatic about and he had a very successful time with Texas and he had a nice story as a recovering addict and human nature is you want to believe in them conquering their vice, but this isn’t really true and Arte got burned but we learn,
It is better to go out on top and not on a low is my sentiment.
Get up, dust yourself off, and get back in the game and keep fighting.
Reagins resigned. latimes.com/archives/blogs/sports-now/story/2011-0…
Funny this word “resigned”, call it what u want, but it’s called, resign or be fired.
In Reagins case, it was “let me do what has been successful and stop f’ing meddling or I am gone”. Then when Arte would not agree to let him do his job without interference, he quit.
Reagins wasn’t going to be fired. He wanted more money to be spent on scouting and development and control of the team he was building.
Moreno wanted him to trade for Wells, and Reagins thought it was a mistake. Moreno refused, so at the end of the season he quit.
Reagins was right. Wells never put up even a league average OPS+ and he had a -13 DRS in the OF over those 2 seasons. The $47 million the Angels paid him hamstrung that team from pursuing other players. But to Moreno putting behinds in seats with a star player was more important than if he was good.
Napoli put up a 143 OPS+ over the next 2 season and Rivera outperformed Wells.
Napoli’s replacement on the Angels, Hank Conger was a complete fail. Bad defense combined with injuries and a 81 OPS+ in 2011.
That trade is one of the worst trades in the modern era of Major League Baseball
I was wondering what that distant groaning sound I heard outside was.
Gotta win more if you want to up the price.
As the sage Homer Simpson once said, “D’OH!”
Once? By my wild estimate, he is well into 4 digits on that quote.
I guess that’s no happy trails.
Being an Angels fan is a living hell. That said Arte has never ever met a star player walk. I’d prefer a new owner over signing Ohtani, that’s how awful we think he is.
F
I knew this would happen. Arte is way too stubborn.
Basically, no one wanted to buy the Angels at the price he wanted with Ohtani on his way out is how I take it.
the bids haven’t submitted yet
I’m neutral with Arte. Pros, He spends money and wants to win. He doesn’t bring in known cheaters and brings in players that he believes have good character.
Cons…. He thinks he knows more about what it takes to win than baseball people. In that aspect, he’s a fan, like us, but he has power. Like most of us, he thinks he knows how to run a team, but doesn’t.
I simply think the Angels don’t know how to build a bullpen or know that a good pen can make or break a team. I’m not saying I know how to build a pen, but I do know it can make or break a team.
Building a pen is easy. Either spend a lot of money or find good pitching developers and pick up a ton of dfa guys that weaker teams couldn’t teach control. It’s really hard if you aren’t in that stretch where you have that right staff or can’t won’t spend over 200 million.
Building a pen is a lot easier than building an infield or outfield, or pitching staff. But you have to try. The Angels don’t even try.
I been trying to help them but they won’t listen to me. I told them to sign Tyler Anderson for 3 straight years. The year I wouldn’t recommend him is the year they signed him. Not the worst move and I like what they done this year so might be hope for them moving forward.
I’m not crazy about Anderson. I expect a four ERA. Sandoval and Suarez are great against LH batters, but have real struggles against RH batters. That’s has to turn around. But still, I’ve got them as #3 and #5 starters.
I think Detmers is going to be very good.
Halo11 – One thing people tend to forget about Anderson is that most of the time before the Dodgers was in Colorado. and a soft contact in the air kind of pitcher in that thin air.
Let’s hope Anderson’s ERA is closer to 3 than 4.
@YourDreamGM Angels literally spent more money than anyone on their bullpen last year. They spent almost all their available budget on the bullpen. It didn’t change Angel’s fortune. They signed some of the best available. A lot of if could be contributed to the struggles of Iglesias. The Angels had to go to a closer by committee and struggled. Iglesias was great again once he was in Atlanta.
The Angels have successfully put together a bullpen in the minor leagues, which is something they haven’t successful at in about 15 years, so at least there is cause for optimism.
As for Angerson, it is better they signed him after the season with Dodgers. They have a track record of “fixing” pitchers. The Angels on the other hand do not. If you think Angerson would had the same season he had last year if he signed with the Angels, then you are mistaken.
@GoogleMe When you spend big money you still have to spend it wisely. Maybe they did and it just didn’t work out. I always thought of the Angels as being one of the worst teams at player evaluation. I see a lot of relievers get big money and I would rather sign 2 or 3 cheaper guys.
It is hard to put it on player evaluation when then have a couple of the best players in the game. They arguably have the best OF in the game. and a vastly underrated rotation. There are plenty of reasons the Angels have been bad.
1. Big FA signings that have turned out horribly, Pujols, Hamilton, Rendon, Gary Matthews, etc.
2. Couple #1 with cheaping out on everything else including filling out the rest of the roster, scouting departments, and minor leagues. It wasn’t until Perry got there when he implemented a pre-game meal at all levels of the minor leagues.
3. Complete neglect of pitching through free agency and the draft. You can attribute that directly back to Arte, whom once said he has trouble paying a pitcher $20M when he only plays every 5th day.. Weaver and Syndergaard are the only only ones to make just barely 20M per year for the Angels as a pitcher.
4. Angels abandoned the international market in large part because of the Baldoquin debacle.
The above are not really applicable to the past 2 seasons. There has been plenty of steps in the right direction in recent years, including drafting pitchers, new international scouting, and development management. Things were looking up until today when Arte announced he is staying.
All those are factors but so is player evaluation. It’s incredible they have 2 of the best players on the same team. But I still never thought of them as a smart organization. They made some of the worst signings in history and player evaluation is critical in signing free agents. Other teams have tons of good and great players. I see the Braves Dodgers Astros Cardinals and am like where do these guys keep coming from. An assembly line of talent. I am not a Angels fan and don’t have anything against them. Just a neutral opinion. My favorite teams are Atl Cle Hou Pit Tam. If LA starts operating as efficient as those teams I hope I notice and add them to my list.
They do seem to be significantly improved with the new gm.
GoogleMe – I think part what you saw was the Dodgers coaching staff, but a lot I think goes to scouting too. A steady four something ERA starter looks a lot better when you see he is a soft contact type pitcher with lots of those in the air. Put him in LA or Anaheim you should have improvement.
They tried last yea4. They didn’t try I 2021 or 2023. And the spent more on Thor than their pen.
Simply not true.
Iglesias, 4 years / 58M
Loup 2 years / 17M
Tepera 2 years / 14M
Bradley 1 year / 3.75M
Syndergaard 1 year / 21M
I stand corrected. Last year they tried. This year they haven’t. So last year Perry tried and failed.
Does that make you feel more or less comfortable? Serious question.
Six months ago it made me feel more comfortable. Since he scrapped trying, I’m less comfortable.
No, I am not exactly comfortable and would like to add at least another arm. I would like Chafin, but with Moreno in place, I understand why they might not add another bullpen arm.
I probably feel a little more hopeful then most. I know the projections have them at the bottom of the barrel, but projections are rarely correct especially when it comes to bullpen.
I think a key part early will be if Estevez can be an effective closer. This will allow Tepera and Loup to have more defined roles. They seemed to struggle when their role kept changing day to day. Estevez is a huge unknown since he never has been a closer, but he did put up some decent numbers playing in Colorado and in the NL West last year. I don’t like pinning the hopes on an unknown, but it is probably the only hope.
Zach Weiss has a 9.3 inch break on his slider, which is way above average. He has a 47.5% whiff rate on his slider, which is outstanding. His issue is walks, same with Quijada. If either of them finds control, they can have breakout seasons.
Herget is the one that didnt seem to care where he pitched from day to day. He put up great numbers last year and has great movement. Hopefully, he can repeat what he did last year.
The one that concerns me the most is Barria. He goes from good year to bad year, back to good. Right now, he is coming of a good year.
If the offense scores runs with the added pieces, it will take a ton of pressure off the bullpen. Most people don’t understand how much easier it is to pitch without the stress or pressure that if I give up one run, we lose. A better offense will go a long way to making a better bullpen.
They signed a ton of depth and have of a ton of arm itching to make the big leagues, Bachman, Bard, Ingram, Torres, and Murphy can all be back end bullpen arms by the end of the year.
Nice Google, I to think this BP will be solid. The BP arms are there, and more coming. As I said before, this teams projected 26 opening day team is as good as any. That said, they’ll still need good health, even with there added roster depth. Simply because there 40 man isn’t deep enough as like a handful of the top teams.
With all the Simpson’s references and your comment I’m not sure if the fans are saying if Arte is a Dunning-Kroger personality type of Ralph Wiggums?
What a fn joke
Arte longa, vita brevis.
Poor poor Angels fans and Trout and luckily for Ohtani he’ll be out the door soon.
Trout just wanted that money. He is doing just fine.
DreamGM is right. Trout never cared about winning. That’s why he re-signed in Anaheim.
I don’t know how he feels about winning. Just it’s not as important as money. I am extremely competitive and would have done the same. That was a great extension contract. I would also be more expressive about my desire to win. I’m probably more suited for nba nfl.
His only “positive impact on the team” is to sell to the highest bidder. He has handcuffed the team for years and cannot be trusted to run an organization.
F ####### CCCC KKKKKK!!!!!!!!! So long Ohtani. So long contending.
Nooooo Arte why laughingstock of baseball
These are the three top stories listed right now under the “Recent” heading:
“Arte Moreno No Longer Pursuing Sale Of Angels”
“Krall: Reds Unlikely To Make Further Roster Additions”
“Sorting Through The Athletics’ Rotation Options”
It’s like today is Bad Owners Day.
Lol that’s funny, I noticed that trend today too.
As Bob Nutting holds up his hands in “peace” symbols and tells the Pirates faithful: “I am not a crook.”
Hi Clipper. A rare Nixon reference that probably only you and I are old enough to remember. Cheers.
Haha! I hope not! I hope you’re doing well too, Prov. I was actually seeking you out in this thread earlier to see what your thoughts are in this 180 from Moreno and what it means for the Halos’ future.
Here is the comment I made about this:
“I’ve said all along that I won’t believe the team is for sale until the team is sold. Moreno has a history of pulling the plug on deals. This is typical for Moreno. I’m disappointed but I’m not at all surprised.”
I don’t think we’ve done enough this winter to make up enough ground for a play off run. We still need bullpen help, a legit starting shortstop, and a starting catcher…all key pieces. I predict that we will be hovering around .500 by the ASB and Ohtani will be traded by the deadline. Perhaps we can make him an offer in free agency if his new team doesn’t lock him up after a trade. But Moreno has a 20 year track record of not doing enough to put a winning team together. I think this means we lose Ohtani.
Yeah, Prov, I agree. Although I can’t see Ohtani being traded by the deadline – not because it’s illogical because it makes perfect sense; but more so because it’s so hard for me to envision the Halos (any team) would trade him. It just seems so….surreal(?). But, I certainly trust your informed perspective more than my baseless feeling. If I were the Angels FO I would trade him too if I thought he was moving on. That trade would obviously yield an excellent return, perhaps the best return seen in a trade for a half-season rental.
You left out the Pirates.
I don’t write the headlines or the reports, Winslow.
LOLAngels
Me standing outside the Big A tonight like that woman at the Trump inauguration… “Noooooooooooooo!!!!”
I agree, UNFINISHED BUSINESS
I am glad he is staying
Go Arte
I’m going to jump off the top of the Big A!
F N Artie.
With his ego he must believe the Big A is named after him!
Big A$$
Angels fans getting swerved.
He probably wanted Dodgers money and there were no takers. Once again realizing that the Angels will always be the Clippers of MLB.
The clippers have a championship? Had no idea!
Bringing up a championship from 20 years ago during the steroids era lol.
You made the comp to a team that hasn’t ever sniffed a championship. Fine by me. Whatever.
But can Arte pitch?
Ohtanimania;
Maybe you need to look at their pitching depth.
You don’t know anything about the Angels. Everyone who looks at this team thinks their starting pitching has a chance to be pretty good.
Do you realize the Angels have three starters who had a sub three ERA last year?
Yes, just joking about pitching as that is always the most common thing said on Angels non pitching transactions. In terms of the negotations falling apart, I would think the pending lawsuit involving Skaggs death decreased the value of the Angels a considerable amount. I’ve been concerned about the potential monetary damages here and hope it is settled soon.
I think they are pretty free from Skaggs. Moreno is about as straight laced as they come. They don’t even bring in known PED users. He 100 percent didn’t know, or couldn’t know, there was a dealer in the woodshed.
Hamilton. Vaughn.
Doesn’t really matter if Moreno personally knew that Kay was providing players with drugs, because the Skaggs family is not suing Moreno. They are suing the Angels organization.
100% is a number I would not use. Moreno is very hands on with baseball operations and the Kay court case showed that others in the organization were at least aware of what was happening.
Unless they find emails or memos in discovery, its doubtful that proving Moreno had personal knowledge of what was going on with Kay and other players will be possible. That would still not absolve the Angels of responsibility.
I would use 100%. Hamilton was a born again Christian and a recovering addict. Two different things. And Vaughn? I’m lost. Elaborate please.
Mo Vaughn was pre-Arte
Condolences to Angels fans.
“During this process it became clear that no one actually wanted to purchase this dumpster fire for the exorbitant amount we were trying to squeeze out of this sale” is what Moreno meant to say
What he said: “Our hearts remains with the Angels.”
What he means: “We didn’t get offered enough money.”
Pretty much.
Or does it mean that Moreno won’t be charged as part of the government corruption investigation?
I doubt that’s a factor. I suspect the much larger one is uncertainty about the status of the lease with the city, which of course was only made worse by the shifty dealings behind the scenes. The unknown future of the stadium probably lowered the selling price Moreno hoped to get. Probably he thinks he can get that situation squared away over the next couple of years and sell out for more. Follow the money.
I can’t even put into words how badly this sucks.
Too bad for Angels fans close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
A Frank Robinson quote.
I feel for ya, Angels fans.
Get ready for a budget cut
Arte Moreno: I’m selling the team, SIKE!!
Just when I thought I was out he drags us back in. What a dick. Not welcome. Was looking forward to changes. Now Trent lodge and halo honks, calling all Angels, minasian, gubizas keys to the game will all be back. I’m done.
Skip- Get your hands on spell check and do us all a favor.
Wow! I feel for you Angel’s fans. As a Mets fan I am now experiencing the other side of bad ownership and its the best.
Hopefully Moreno wakes up and decides to hire good people to run the show, then let said people actually run the show or, he realizes next offseason he made a huge mistake (as usual) and decides to sell again.
Cohens_Wallet;
You haven’t been watching….
Arte DID hire good people to run the show..and they’re doing a great job!.
@Samuel
I must have missed that part, that’s my bad.
I really do hope Arte sells, the Angels organization is way too valuable to be kept in chains the way it has for 2 decades now.
The one smart move Arte did is to fire inEppler and now look where he is 🙁
@Cano
That’s the problems, under bad ownership everyone looks bad. In reality the head is always in charge. It’s the ol (the fish stinks from the head) phrase.
Perhaps one of the potential Angels buyers will give Jerry Reinsdorf a ring. A guy can hope, right?
Why why why why. JUST LEAVE!
You can’t let a potential MVP and CY Young winner walk and be considered a serious baseball owner. Shoehei Ohtani can write a blank check and somebody will cash it. I’m expecting Cohen to do exactly that, tell Shoehei to write an amount and he’s gonna take it and say done. You don’t mess around with franchise altering players and think you have prospects ready to take their place. The Angels can’t lose Trout or Ohtani but if one must go because of finances you trade Trout. If Juan Soto can be dealt, so can Trout.
@kingbum
Soto was traded before he signed a long term contract. Trout already has signed his, and has a no trade clause. Plus with the money he is now owed, there is very little surplus value. You wouldn’t like how little you would get back.
Sty, first thing. The Angels will never trade Trout, so who cares about his no trade clause.
And 2nd, that said thou meaningless. Trouts trade value is still huge. His guaranteed years and money owed, is a lot less than the deals that are now being handed out. Once again, it really doesn’t matter thou, he’s not going anywhere.
Enter Mutombo..no,NO,no! Lol
Didn’t get offered his price, huh?
@suffer
That’s my thought as well. When Cohen bought the Mets the sale should have gone through the year before but the Wilpons backed out, they ended up selling the following year to Cohen anyway. Hopefully the same happens with the Angels.
The nightmare continues.
Sorry Rod Carew you’re still not welcome by Angel ownership.
Baha Baha. Sucks to be an Angel fan. Almost as bad as McCourt.
ALMOST
The budget cuts to places other successful teams find necessary to pay for the team payroll will continue unabated. Hooray!
If the name stays LA, they will never win.
I feel the same way about the LA misnomer. Either move the team to LA or change the name to the Anaheim Angels.
How do you feel about the New Jersey Giants, New Jersey Jets, Irvine Cowboys and Arlington Rangers?
angels are the original l.a. team until the dodgers hightailed from n.y.
aragon – Orange County used to be part of LA County but if he wants the name recognition. why not just go back to California Angels? California is known all over the world and has kind of a good fun relaxed vibe..
What bothers me is that the city gave the team the naming rights to the stadium in exchange for naming themselves the Anaheim Angels. I think the team has been very dishonest.
Hell yeah! I agree, Go back to the California Angels.
Hahaha can’t say I’m surprised!
Horrible news. Can’t get out of the way of his own ego. This will go as well as the last 15 or so years. Mediocre at best with 2 of the top players in the game.
Mets fans are Lucky
Were not that lucky we got the guy Arte fired, inEppler Arte’s one smart move!!
Cano- Why do you always put inEppler?
For those putting Ohtani in a Dodger jersey already, not so fast.
James Midway;
Other than me you’re the one fan on here that gets it.
Hardly. I don’t see the Dodgers going after him at all.
Not surprised by this decision based on his “baseball decisions”. Horrible, what a egomaniac. Worst owner on the West Coast, including Oakland.
I’m good with Artie! It’s hard to put a winner on the field when you have three gigantic contracts totaling 60% of your payroll. Flipping to Rendon when Garret Cole snubbed us put the team in a bad spot financially going forward! He will resign Ohtani and pay the luxury tax for the last three years on Rendon’s contract. We are one starter and reliever away from making the playoffs this year!
Artie is a fan like the rest of us and needs to allow his GM to run all aspects of the baseball team!
rottenboyfriend;
I feel very good about the Angels chances to make the playoffs in 2023, and know the Astros should take the NL West.
Trout has to stay healthy enough to start 140 games.
delusional much?
Not a snowball’s chance in hell Ohtani signs with the Angels
Rotten, ARTE made those signings. He made the decision to sign those guys. The Angels have a higher revenue stream than the Braves and we know the Braves were at $545 million this past season. Arte can afford to spend a lot more on players. He chooses to spend money on a handful of stars that keep the seats filled instead of the player that would actually help the team win. Then he pockets the rest of the money.
The Angels are not a couple of players away from contending. The record last season was not a fluke and nothing that has been done will result in the 10-12 wins that would be needed to move into playoff contention. A bunch of band aid moves that will result in a .500 record, not a playoff berth.
The Angels pitching is not an issue this season. It was good last year, 9th in ERA, and Minassian’s moves made it both better and deeper. Ohtani, Anderson, Sandoval, Detmers, and Suarez with Canning, Barria, Silseth, and Diaz as depth is a solid rotation even if injuries hit to anyone not named Ohtani.
Add the 105 mph man Ben Joyce coming to the back end of the pen soon and Chris Rodriguez returning from injury and the bullpen is solid and deep.
Overall the pitching good. The best and deepest the Angels have had in a long time.
The offense and defense were the problem last season. The Angels were 21st in wRC+, 22nd in OPS+, and 23rd in OPS last season.
The Angels were 17th in DRS and OAA as a team last season, and the two best defensive players are either gone, Marsh, or relegated to the minors in 2023, Velasquez.
Minassian was able to make band aid moves, but because of the uncertainty with the sale of the team, all of those fixes are short term. Renfroe, Urshela, Drury. He was unable to even try to fix the biggest issue, shortstop.
Rendon being hurt is a given. If he is healthy, he is still in his age 33 season and not likely to rebound tremendously from the 97 OPS+ we have seen the last 2 seasons. Considering the Angels production from 3B was dead last in 2022 with a .59 wRC+ and .555 OPS, we would welcome a league average Rendon in 2023.
At SS the Angels were 27th in bWAR and 29th in wRC+, OPS+, and OPS in 2022. Rengifo’s league average production is an improvement with the bat, but a huge step backward with the glove. Overall its not much of, if any, improvement.
You say their record was no fluke yet when they traded Iglesias, got Trout back and then got Fletcher back, and then had Rengifo break out with some pop, with Soto coming up and taking off the bench, suddenly the Angels had a winning record after the trade deadline, and even had a 7 game winning streak in September. What we were seeing was their young rotation coming together, along with what their offense could do when healthy and some added depth. Take that 14 game losing streak out and they’re 73-75. They were also .500 team after the trade deadline. Add Renfroe, Urshela, Drury, and Estevez in the bullpen on top of that, without losing anything significant to free agency, and not only is there the possibility their record was a fluke, but also the possibility that the Angels might actually be a playoff team at least on paper right now.
Agreed RyanWKrol, last year’s team hit there floor I believe. Almost all pro baseball critic’s had them at .500 or a few games better. They had it right, there’s at least a a 10 game swing on injuries and performance. Not even the least talented teams lose 10 in a row, let alone 14. I’d bring the bar up a few games this year to 86 wins. With the normal 10 game swing either way.
Las Vegas had them at 77.5 wins. Their 2022 W/L based on runs scored vs runs allowed was 78 wins. Vegas had it pegged.
They lost an extra 5 games from either bad luck or bad management, you chose which you prefer.
They would have needed another 14 wins to get to the 87 needed make the playoffs last year and with the improvements by their competition in the offseason, I think that the number will be closer to 90 wins this coming season.
The changes the Angels have made don’t add up to 14-17 more wins.
Who said anything about Vegas. Everyone on MLB and Baseball tonight had them at .500 or slightly better. but anyway, thanks for telling what I didn’t see or hear…lol
The Angels were predicted to win between 76 and 78 games last season depending on if you like the pundits online or Las Vegas. Tey lost 14 straight. It happened. They weren’t unlucky. They sucked.
The guys they added made the team better, but the season will still hinge on injuries. Unless Rendon and Walsh are both healthy and play much better this team is not a playoff team.
It has to be more than a 10 game swing because, #1 – they won 73 games and needed to win 87 to pass the Rays for the wild card, and #2 – the Mariners were already better and the Rangers got better.
34-36 in the 2nd half.
14-15 in August
14-12 in September
2-3 in October.
That is not a playoff caliber team.
outinleft- A few things you should consider about the Angels is that they lost A LOT of close games. Mostly this is due to back of the bullpen in late pressure situations and low run production. At one point they lead the majors in runs scored injuries hit and not only did they lose those players but the replacement players had trouble just with situational hitting, like getting runners in from 3rd with no outs. The replacement players were Really bad for the most part. The bullpen was weakest late high leverage spots. I think part of the problem might have been that when Raisel Iglesias was having problems the other late innings guys were put in unfamiliar roles that changed.
The Angels were kind of the anti-Mariners who were super good in close games due to great bullpen and were great at scraping out runs. The Angels the opposite. Those are an amazing contrast especially when you see that in head-to-head the Angels won the season series winning some close games.
I saw were Fangraphs had formula that takes the hitting and pitching numbers to get a projected record. This was not the runs scored against allowed. They had the Angels last year as a .500 team. They really just need to fix those two problems. I think they have improved the lineup and REALLY improved the depth. Look at WAR added this year. They also will have a lot better options on the way in the minors . The closer is the most critcal part for me, but I think even with some injuries the depth is an average at least major league talent. This makes a big difference and could start winning close games THAT could mean a bit increase in wins.
Tim Stewart: “A few things you should consider about the Angels is that they lost A LOT of close games…This makes a big difference and could start winning close games THAT could mean a bi[g] increase in wins.”
Baseball tends to have a lot of close games. The better teams win a lot of them and the lesser teams lose a lot of them. You think finishing 33 games out was some kind of fluke? Is 162 games not enough to show each organization’s true colors?
Sealbeach Comber – Not a fluke.at all. It is just that there are a few areas that the Angels were really bad in those areas and really improved parts of that. It is easier to make big improvements to really weak areas. The fact that they lost so many close games mostly due to those weakness means that the potential for increased wins is pushed up. This is the same as if the Mariners had the Angels depth and the Rangers or Angels bullpen from 2022 this year, I would expect them to go from winning a lot of close games to losing them.
In California, 3 of the other 4 teams played in more 1 run games. The Dodgers blew out more teams so they are the one that was out of the ordinary.
The number of 1 run games the Angels played was not extraordinary. They just lost a ton of them because they were bad on offense. The bullpen had a 3.95 ERA as a whole and the backend of that pen was very good last season with a 3.49 ERA in the 7-9 innings. So no, it wasn’t on the bullpen.
Have you ever known FG to be right in their projections? How often have you known Las Vegas betting lines to be far off in theirs?
The Angels added a net 7.3 bWAR to the roster this year. That is not enough to get us to the 90 wins it will take to make the playoffs this season.
Tim, We didn’t make major improvements, we made marginal improvements.
Replace Marsh 1.6 WAR with Renfroe 2.7 WAR. 1.1 WAR improvement.
Replace Rengifo 2.4 WAR with Urshela 3.1 WAR as utility guy and injury replacement. 0.7 WAR improvement.
Replace Fletcher 1.1 WAR with Drury 2.6 WAR. 1.5 WAR improvement.
All of those are short term deals, 1-2 years.
No earth shattering improvements. Arte didn’t allow a replacement like Correa 5.4 WAR for Velasquez and Soto 2.1 WAR combined. Instead Rengifo will probably start at SS. Ouch.
The only big win was replacing Barria’s 2.0 WAR with Anderson 4.3 WAR. A 2.3 WAR improvement.
outinleftfield – I see it a lot differently of course. They are more so replacing the weakest links. The players they replaced were closer to zero or negative WAR. This is maybe marginal if everyone is healthy. They now have the ability to withstand a lot more injuries to the position players. That was one of the problems in one run games. Parts of the lineup were so weak that teams to just pitch around or at least not give in when someone got in scoring position. Fletcher and Soto can at least get men over and get them in from 3rd. You won’t have situations like last year when fletcher was starting game that he could not swing the bat and could only bunt or take pitches. They will be in a position to pinch hit or run in close games. They also will AT LEAST have better options like Soto who has a high floor. Neto could be a call away in Salt lake. The one thing I most disagree with is that the back end of the bullpen was not a problem. In late and close high leverage games they had to be pretty poor. Not sure where to find this but I am sure this is the case. That is the area where they can improve with the most bang for the buck, or rather WAR. (Reliable closers can be costly) I think if the Angels can convert a high % of late leads to wins, they are going to win a lot of games.
I wrote down exactly who they are replacing in the lineup. Not some hypothetical scenario.
The back end of the bullpen was good. I gave you the stats late in the game. The guys coming back are even better than that.
I think the Angels will win more games than last season. I am also realistic enough to know that the marginal improvements made will not result in the 14-17 additional wins it will take to get to the postseason.
I also realize that all the moves other than Anderson were short term bandaids. Next offseason the team will be right back in the same position but Ohtani will be on his way out the door. .
outinleftfield – I was talking more about roster than just lineup. I am not sure how, what, who or amount of playing time at SS. But with the roster you wrote “Replace Fletcher 1.1 WAR with Drury 2.6 WAR”. Fletcher then replaces someone else and he might replace someone else. The biggest upgrade is better options all the way down the line. Fletcher is still on the team. Remember the boost he gave to the lineup when he returned from the IL. Then got hurt again and kept him starting dispite not being able to swing the bat other than to bunt or take a pitch. That shows just what type of talent was there to replace him. Some of this improvement is not just new players but improvements to the upper minors. Players like Soto give more options with much higher floors. AAA will have much better options for promotions.
The bullpen was OK. When I said late and close high leverage games that is different than just innings 7-9. I did try to look at the Angels ERA in late high leverage games, but the ERA was blank for some reason. I did see they had a 1.38 WIP (21st in MLB), A .248 OPBA (23), 0.89 GO/AO (23),8.70 SO/9 (24). They also blew 27 of 65 save opportunities 58%. That kind of shows what I’m talking about. I think they have improved the lineup, but the biggest upgrade is the floor and the likelihood of a higher ceiling. The starting rotation has 1 thru 5 looks solid and they have a number options with upside that could be the 6th. The bullpen I think could be better and with more good probably starting the year at AAA. The bullpen has a lot more question marks. I the bullpen can get closer to say 90 % save completion they will win alot of games.
This is not rocket science.
Who played each position last season? What was their combined production.
Who will play it this season? What was their production last season.
Nobody said the bullpen was great. They were just better in the 7-8-9.
The bullpen allowed exactly the same .27 BA and a 5 point higher OPS in high leverage situations .700 as they did in medium leverage. .695.
Opposing batters hit for a 96 OPS+ in a high leverage situation vs a 98 OPS+ in medium leverage situations.
baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=p&te…
Save opportunities include being up by 3 in the 5th and giving up the lead. Terrible way to judge effectiveness. No team saved 90% of opportunities.
outinleftfield – I think the biggest improvement is to the position players floor. The position players in 22 had -8.5 WAR from players with a negative WAR. When someone is replaced in 23 it should mean less of guys like Gosslin (-9) and Rojas (-1.1). They will have a lot more better options even at AAA. In close games they can’t just be pitched around any time they pose a threat. The bullpen I still think they is the area they can improve the most in close games. I wish I could find close late high leverage ERA. Those OPS numbers are helpful, but they also don’t indicate improvement in those situations. The WIP ,OPBA, GO/AO, SO/9 can lean towards a decline in that area more so when you look at where they ranked in those stats , 21th, 23th, 23th, 24th. The Angels mapped out Iglesias,Loup, Tepera, Bradley as the late high leverage guys to start the year. and ended with WAR totals of .2 ,-.9, .6, -.4.. That was a -,5 between them. I am not saying I have enough to prove my points, but I at least you can see what I’m talking about.
Who played each position and what was their TOTAL combined production?
Who will play that position this season and what was their total combined production last season?
THAT tells you what the potential improvement is and its incremental. Improvements to be sure, but marginal. Definitely not enough to add 14-17 wins to the total.
You can try to spin it any way you want, that is the bottom line.
No one wanted to pay market price for the team apparently.
Put me in the camp of I’m fine with Moreno as an owner going forward … with two conditions.
1. He stays out of baseball operations decisions
2. He keeps payroll in line with the market / revenue (which being at or above the luxury tax level feels right).
My biggest gripes come from him making GM decisions. He’s be fine besides that and being a little stingy on the spending.
“During this process, it became clear that we have unfinished business….”
Yeah, the lawsuit by the Skaggs family against you, that’s his “unfinished business” and most likely the reason why he couldn’t come to an agreement to sell the team.
Its not the only pending lawsuit. The city filed in November asking for him to make the $300 million in improvements to the ballpark stipulated in the new lease agreement.
If Arte wanted the new owners to take responsibility for those liabilities, he would not find many willing buyers.
This is very disappointing, but I guess disappointment is what Arte is good at
lolololol why in a million years would Ohtani resign here. Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Giants etc. prepared to pay him a stupid amount of money, and he deserves it.
Did you think he was going to sign for an “unstupid” amount of money?
Double down, he’ll yes!
Lol. I laughed. And I don’t laugh a lot.
Arte (auto-correct keeps converting that to Rate) Moreno just cannot keep from making baseball blunders.
He’s very successful and buying the team was financial genius. But he can’t help forevermore tripping over his baseball ding ding. Feel for Angel fans who briefly had hope.
I don’t laugh that much but I laughed
This is yet another example of why baseball needs a strong commissioner. Arte not selling the team isn’t just bad for the Angels but bad for baseball overall. A strong commissioner would make sure that it happened.
And yes, I realize that a strong commissioner would also have had the A’s and Rays stadium situations resolved long ago so that MLB could expand to 32 teams. And yes, I realize that the owners are too insecure to have a strong commissioner who might actually push back on them once in a while.
The Commissioner works for the 30 owners. He is an employee serving at their pleasure, and can be removed at their will. A strong Commissioner above the owners is not possible.
And for whom would this “strong commissioner” work?
If the other 29 team owners wanted Moreno to sell the team it would get sold. If they aren’t pushing for it, then it’s because their financial interests aren’t being served by whatever offers Moreno was getting. It’s all about the money, and when it isn’t about the money, it’s still all about the money.
So now we know how it works.
What RobM said.
Arte Moreno narrowly edges Carlos Correa for the newly established 2023 award named after George Santos aka Anthony Devolder aka Kitara Ravache
usatoday.com/story/sports/2022/05/29/angels-future…
Artie Moreno no longer looking for Grecian Formula.
I bought this lottery ticket for nothing?!?
Maybe he can sell the team to Saudi Arabia
I’m grateful for his efforts. Hopefully he’ll put a team together that will shine. Soon we’ll be the best team.
Let’s go Angels !!
So they gave Ohtani a 25 million raise for nothing? There would be some value for goodwill to a new owner, but there is no point if they don’t get him. Even then, he would like be a Pujols/Upton/Hamilton/Rendon… type overpay. The list goes on and on.
So the offers were lower than they expected.
Wow bring Doug Rader back
Moreno also has many revenue streams with Japanese companies who advertise on both radio and TV because of the large Japanese audience and our Asian fanbase. Arte is a cheap owner. He allows his minor leaguers to live in squalid conditions and they live beneath the poverty line.
But the players accepted to such an offer to play baseball. Aren’t they adults, capable of making decisions for themselves?
All teams do not just Arte.
RIP Angels
The best news this winter. A Rangers fan.
Arte wants every last penny for an asset. You will have to take Showtime and the Angels franchise from his cold, dead hands. He ain’t trading/selling either.
What a tragedy. Thoughts and prayers to Angels fans.
IMO, either his lawyers have told him he’s not going to be prosecuted, or he’s found a way to ‘influence’ the newly elected members of the Anaheim City Council or he isn’t getting the price he wants.
He would be an idiot (would be???) to make a new deal with Anaheim. Red flags would fly everywhere…and I don’t mean Angel red. And everybody…California Justice Dept, FBI, CIA,. Interpol…should jump on this to see why it smells…and it will
I’ve said all along that I won’t believe the team is for sale until the team is sold. Moreno has a history of pulling the plug on deals. This is typical for Moreno. I’m disappointed but I’m not at all surprised.
It’s a mixed bag for me, if he spends like this season, that Xtra 30/40m and at the tax line, I’m ok with him. That little extra money for depth goes along way. I believe this season you’ll see why… Playoffs! Playoffs!
Also just a hunch, added on to the above. Arte just might have a belief he can get the Ohtani extension done. He doesn’t want a new owner to get that credit…haha. if so, he better be willing to go over the tax line for 3/4 years to stay contending.
The city wept.
::returns life savings to the bank::
Some of my friends, for instance, think these Morenos are annoying meddlers. Other of my friends think these Morenos are greedy fools. How are we going to come to a consensus? You ought to hear the arguments around my house; “they’re annoying, they’re meddlers, they’re greedy, they’re fools!” Brothers, sisters, come together! Can’t we once just join hands and think of them as greedy annoying meddling fools? -With all due respect to Bill Hicks
Ok, so this being the case, are they gonna rethink the Phil Nevin extension? Time to start the office pool for the date he’ll be canned this season
RIP playoff Mike Trout. We hardly knew ye.
My sincere condolences to Angels fans. May your playoff dreams and hopes for keeping Ohtani RIP.
I called this right off the bat! I knew it wasn’t going to be that easy to get rid of the greedy little nerd. Looks like another year where I won’t spend a dime that could end up in his pocket.
I like this team. To keep it in perspective, Perry has done just about as much as he possibly could of for depth, and also keep it under the tax line. The Starting 26 is as good as any in BB. But even with the extra depth, it’s not like the top 5/6 teams in the league. Those teams 40 man rosters are a lot deeper. Stay healthy my friends, stranger things have happened.
Keep in mind, they did the right thing by spending a little more and staying under the cap. That is if your on board with extending Ohtani. Why go over before u even try to extend him.
I wonder if Arte consulted his peers (other owners, business owners, etc.) and got some advice that gave him some perspective. He’s given the Angels a franchise record $220 million dollar payroll that would’ve been almost $30 million over the luxury tax just a couple years ago. So he’s got a lot more room to make those middle of the roster moves the Angels should’ve been making years ago. And the reports I’m seeing tell me the Halos could still go over anyway. So I see something different here. Gotta let it play out. Because the main thing is giving Shohei Ohtani a reason to stay.
If he was giving Ohtani a reason to stay he would have brought in a top SS and an Ace starter or he would have sold the team, As it was he allowed Minassian to make a handful of short term pickups that make the team marginally better.
What a mess. Here’s my 2 cents Werth. As long as Phil Nevin is the manager and Rendon has a roster spot this team is a .500 team at best. I don’t have personal feelings towards or against Moreno. Here’s hoping that he locks up Ohtani for 10 years and then sells the team.
Next time spend the 2 cents on spelling. It will be WORTH it.
Yeah good luck with that.
Better break out that Rally Monkey. Gonna need somethin’.
Well. Welcome to the Doyers Ohtani!
as long as arte owns the angels ohtani won’t be wearing doyers jersey.
I think as long as arte owns the team he will be a doyer. I understand arte appreciates a star and knows ohtani has $ worth internationally but The guy already has shown signs he wants to sell, (although it seems was to be a show for the trouble he got the mayor of anaheim into with whole real estate scam) that aside he doesn’t want to spend $ to build the whole team. Will it be easier to sell with the price tag it will take to keep ohtani and trout+rendon contract? He could be flipped at seasons end and all the money the doyers have for him will be an easy move come free agency. But come on, when was the last time an Angel star has been traded away at the deadline?? Last star traded maybe Edmonds, but that was off season. Go angels!
Josh Hamilton coming back for his next extension
Good thinking. Sell them after a playoff appearance. LOL
I like what the Angels have done to build the team the last 2 years. I think they might surprise some in the AL West. They have a decent team.
Cant even complete a sale.
Worst. Managed. Franchise. In. Sports.
“Mr. Ciepto? It’s the Pittsburgh Pirates on Line 1 , and the Houston Texans are still holding on line 2.”
As a baseball fan this is so upsetting. I feel like it should be for all fans of the game, not just Angel fans. This could happen to you too one day and there are no benchmarks or guidelines to protect you.
Whale oil beef hooked
Just imho, but the Angels should not think they are built around Ohtani. If/when they win, it will be because of the rotation. I’d offer Ohtani $500M/10, but if he says no, I’d move on, and dump everyone that has an expiring contract. Give Adell 600 ABs to prove/disprove himself. Promote some kids. Finish 4th.
extending ohtani is the most unwise thing. with trout, rendon and ohtani will take up $120 mil plus. should have traded him earlier this offseason.
TRADE OHTANI! The Dodgers (or someone else) will give them a franchise altering haul of MLB ready prospects for him which sets them up to compete this year and in the future. Bobby Miller, Vargas, Cartaya, Stone, etal… The list goes on. The Dodgers are the most obvious suitor but there are others. If you can get two good pitchers and a gaggle of future all star position players for one star pitcher/star hitter combo why wouldnt you? You still have your homegrown hero in Trout and plug your holes long-term. Playoff potential for the next 5-10 years or just this year because he ain’t staying with the Angels if he reaches free agency and SD and the Dodgers are going to try to outbid each other for him and drive up the price. Cash in on him or he’ll cash in on himself next offseason and they’ll get nothing.
Trading Ohtani to the Dodgers is the last thing the Angels would. do.That’s like splitting up with a hot GF that lives in the same apartment complex and watching her date other guys. Leykis 101 say’s that a no no.
That sucks, the guy spends money on the team, but he doesn’t spend it wisely. Plus he intervenes way too much in the baseball side of things. I’m sorry Angel fans I hope you do eventually get a better owner.
Trout to Yankees locked
dumdum.
Cashman does not have the prospects to seal the deal.
Be Careful what you’re smoking isn’ laced with feytenal
Made the playoffs a couple times? they won the Division 6 times in between 03-14. this more than a couple times
Imagine having two of the top superstars in the game and being top 10 in payroll in baseball and failing to make the playoffs year after year after year….. must be miserable being an Angels fan.
Not when you live in SoCal. It’s always Sunny
If you talked to me a week ago I would have said it seemed like it would never stop raining. We got absolutely pounded for a few weeks there.
Won’t complain much, because we needed it badly. Now lets hope it stays cool so thee snowpack stays on the mountains until spring.
It has been raining since like December.
Saved a lot of water by turning off the sprinklers
Playoffs? PLAYOFFS! Are you kidding me, PLAYOFFS? They’ve had 7 straight losing seasons. Looking for a Sportsbook giving odds on probability of #8. I might just want in on some of that action, baby.
Who cares if you have a .500 season and still miss to reach the postseason. If anything that just makes it worse. The Angels need to hire competent people to run their baseball department. Seems like they are ages behind in player development and love to throw money away at aging veterans.
Ballys.
Really wanted Vince McMahon to buy them!
Thanks Arte we knew u wouldn’t sell the ego is way too big …. I knew Perry couldn’t pull the trigger Arte had the gun the whole time and just like Christmas u get all your hopes and dreams up just to figure out Santa ain’t coming is it really because I live in an apartment in Westminster pay 3,300/mo and have no chimney…. Come on man spend the money!!! U are out of time and u can’t take all that cash with u…. It’s not too late I seen an old Santa costume at goodwill off state college … do the right thing Arte … get in the costume and don’t forget your wallet again
Spent last 2 weeks, and probably the next 50+ weeks, working on an AI project for a healthcare data and tech company and the founder gave me an interesting perspective on the Angels sale while we sat at Bill Botts Field eating lunch and watching some Little Leaguers last week.
1st a time frame.
In late-May, the Anaheim city council voted to kill the deal to allow Moreno to buy the stadium and land around it. Moreno’s SRB Management had a $3.5 billion master plan for the area surrounding the stadium and that vote put the kibosh on all of that. SRB made tens of millions in investments in the area in anticipation of that deal being approved. If the team is sold, what would happen with that investment and would it be part of the sale of the team?
In August Moreno announced he was exploring the sale of the team.
In November, an Orange County judge ruled that the lawsuit against the Angels by the family of Tyler Skaggs to go forward. The case will be heard beginning in Oct 2023 an could take a year or more to litigate. It has the potential of being a 9 figure settlement or much higher if it goes to a jury.
In November, the city of Anaheim announced they were considering litigation to force Moreno to pay for an estimated $260-$300 million in deferred maintenance and scheduled upgrades to the stadium prior to any sale of the team. The Angels’ lease requires the team to pay the “sole expense” of ballpark maintenance and upgrades. An interesting line in the lease states the team must maintain the stadium “at least equal to first class professional baseball stadiums, such as, on the date hereof, Kansas City and Dodger stadiums.” Since the lease was signed for Anaheim Stadium. the Dodgers have spent more than $350 million on renovations. In January, they voted to go forward with a study on just how much money Moreno will have to pay for deferred maintenance and upgrades before any sale of the team.
The bottom line is that with that much potential financial liability on Moreno and the Angels, the founder of the company my company is doing work for said that he would not have gone forward with the purchase of the team until that litigation and the stadium issues have been finalized.
Moreno will eventually sell the Angels and get his $2.5 billion and maybe a little more, but none of that will happen until all the uncertainty about the Angels financial situation is cleared up. The best guess of the billionaire I was talking about this situation with was 2025.
said that he would not have gone forward with the purchase of the team until that litigation and the stadium issues have been finalized.
============================
You can always buy your way out of the uncertainty, but the money would have to come out of Moreno’s take.
A prospective buyer might easily see $100M of improvements having a positive return, another $100M being deferred maintenance, and another $100M being a shakedown by Anaheim.
The lawsuit my the Skagg family might be covered by liability insurance. One of the companies I worked for took a lower price in order to have no environmental studies done, and covered 3 years of product liability.
It’s a bit like buying a house where the home inspector uncovers some defects. You can have the current owner remedy the defects, or ask them to reduce the house price, and then you take the risk of paying for the remedy.
But if there is a motivated buyer and a motivated owner, you can contract away the uncertainties.
The point was that he was not willing to move forward with all the financial uncertainty and Moreno was not willing to eat that money upfront to make a sale happen now.
The city is saying that the number is $260-300 million and they are spending over a million for a study to find out exactly what the real number is.. The Angels said it was $130 million in 2013 during the negotiations to buy the stadium and nothing has been done since 2013. I can see it easily being double that amount by now.
From comments by city council members, it seems the city is more.concerned about Moreno selling without doing the agreed upon work to bring it up to today’s standards than with shaking down the team. The prospective buyer I had those conversations with agreed with you that the cost for bringing the stadium up to today’s standards should be borne by Moreno..
Not sure liability insurance covers crimes by employees that result in the death of another employee. Mine doesn’t. You may be right about that. It was a huge concern in the mind of the business founder I am referencing. He said the Skaggs litigation could last years and cost both hundreds of millions and be a continuing PR hit for the team.
The investments made by SRB in area near the stadium and agreements they made being transferred to the new ownership were also a sticking point in his mind.
My net worth is $2.475 billion short of what it would take to buy a $2.5 billion MLB team, so I can only go off what others that have that kind of net worth to inform me about what they think is important.
Pads Fans
#1 Okay what improvements did they make around the stadium ? Ive haven’t seen any. And why would they spend that kind of money if the they didn’t know for certain the city council would vote in favor of the Angels?
#2 The Dodgers own Dodger stadium. OF course they’re going to spend money enhancing it.It’s cheaper than building a new ballpark. McCourt owns the parking lot.
That’s the point Winslow. None have been made since 2013 when the Angels estimated the stadium needed $130 million in upgrades and deferred maintenance. The city is saying it will cost $260-300 million to do that today.
It doesn’t matter who owns Dodgers Stadium. What matters is the contract says that the Angels have to keep the Angels Stadium up to the standards of Dodger Stadium. Whether it will cost the same amount of money to bring Angels Stadium up to the Dodger’s Stadium level is for someone else to say.
Pads- In your original statement you said “SRB made tens of millions of investments in the area” When you say “area” are you talking about spending money on infrastructure? Or stadium improvements? And like I asked before what improvements did they they make in the area?
Arte has spent millions on stadium improvements since he bought the Angels. And they have estimated it’s going to $300M to bring Angel Stadium up to standards.
Dude, he is talking about the area around the ballpark, not money spent on the stadium itself.
SRB is a real estate investment company Arte put together to develop the area around the ballpark with hotels and restaurants and retail and housing after he bought it. Try to keep up.
Arte has spent $54 million on ballpark maintenance total since he bought the team in 2002. The big renovation happened in 1997-1998, long before he bought it. and Disney spent that money.
Pads Fans and outinleftfield are the same guy Winslow. And he doesn’t have a $25m net worth.
SRB made investments in property surrounding the stadium in order to develop the surrounding area.
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure you did. And we’re also sure you sat next to A. J. Preller and Scott Boras at some restaurant and sat next to Dan Lozano on a plane. *wink*
Hey I got a link on the in’s and hefty on the out’s this that real circus act real talk that chatter box overheard u hear …. DUDE “Just TRUST ME on This One” ….. lol
Worst possible news!!
I won’t spend a cent on an Arte owned team.
Native-you probably never did to begin with.
Arte, John Carpino has to go. Bring in new blood knowledgable with actual baseball experience and INTEREST. Like a POBO.
That would be a great 1st decision in your renewed tenure.
If you find the right guy it would take so much off your shoulders and allow the team to grow again. This needs to happen.
You’ve established a reputation, bringing someone in willingly will unfortunately be difficult.
Arte is the constant here. He thinks he’s smart financially to cut corners in scouting, facilities, coaching staff, etc which guarantees the Angels organization will always be second rate. He builds showy structures on sub-standard foundations.
My take is that there are a lot of buyers out there.
Normally, it is a “seller’s market” for a pro sports team in the 2nd largest city and TV market in the country.
However, the Buyers may be attempting to dictate the Sale Terms to Moreno
( Are buyers playing “hard ball” with Moreno and the Angels.?!
BECAUSE of the Uncertainty with various legal issues with: the Angels, Moreno, the City of Anaheim, Ohtani etc…
And, are the Buyers trying to make Moreno “indemnify them” against any losses relating to the various legal issues with the team and/City/County/MLB etc…?!
Rather than make a “bad deal” that exposes Moreno and his family to future legal liabilities and “cash calls:,
it is likely that Moreno is passing on the deals presently on the table.
When Moreno, the Angels, the City, the County get their legal issues resolved,
then I can see Moreno selling the team quickly.
The Angels and Moreno have very likely vetted some of the bidders already.
It could lead to a faster deal in a 1-3 years when things calm down on the business and financial sides of the team.
In a “Sellers Market” for limited MLB teams, both Moreno (Angels)
and the Nats ownership have run into a few roadblocks to selling their teams.
The Nats have a major, long, contract dispute with the Orioles regarding TV rights.
Moreno and Angels have many, obvious legal issues:
Stadium, development land, lawsuits, liabilities and financial exposure.
Buyers may want Moreno to “indemnify” (make them whole financially)
regarding those obvious, potential, legal liabilities.
And, potential legal liabilities could affect the sale price and net returns to Moreno.
Moreno is either “all in” or “all out” regarding continued ownership and/or sale of the team.
Moreno and his family do not want to be “on the hook” for future legal liabilities
and potential “cash calls”…or to lower their asking price substantially etc..
I am thinking that Moreno will still sell the Angels when he can clear up some of the legal issues involving the team:
land, stadium deal in Anaheim or somewhere else in LA area, lawsuits, Ohtani issues etc..
It is not as bad as the situation in Oakland and Tampa,
but some Angels legal issues may need to be worked out or
just find a new buyer who will overpay for this “trophy/hobby for billionaires…owning an MLB team in the 2nd largest media market in the country.
is Steve Ballmer a baseball fan?!
Posted this earlier, but somehow it did not get picked up by this site.