Despite boasting two of the most gifted players on the planet on their roster, the Angels have failed to make the playoffs since 2014 and failed to secure a winning season since 2015. As they have been for quite some time, they’ll look to change that in 2023 and return to the playoffs. While they haven’t made a splashy move, their signings of Tyler Anderson, Carlos Estevez and Brandon Drury, and acquisition of Gio Urshela and Hunter Renfroe have put them in good shape to do well this year.
Of course, a big challenge for the Angels is that they play in a division with the defending champion Astros, as well as the Mariners and Rangers, two teams that have big ambitions to compete this season. If they are to return to the postseason, they’ll need contributions across the board, but one area that the Angels will surely be leaning on as a strength is their starting rotation. The team has tended to work with a six-man rotation to preserve Shohei Ohtani’s workload in the past, and given they were linked with Nathan Eovaldi just before he signed with Texas, it seems likely they’ll add another starter before the season starts.
In the meantime, let’s take a look at the starting five for the Angels as things stand:
Shohei Ohtani: The Angels will be relying on their two-way superstar to have another monster season this year. There’s not a lot that hasn’t been said about how good Ohtani is, but for this exercise we’ll talk about him purely as a pitcher. He had his best year yet in 2022, throwing 166 innings of 2.33 ERA ball. The strikeouts were up, the walks were down, and Ohtani benefited a fair bit from leaning less on his fastball and throwing his slider more often. Angels manager Phil Nevin has already stated he plans to increase Ohtani’s workload next season, so it’ll be interesting to see how he handles that given his other duties, but if the Angels can get another year like 2022 out of their ace they’ll come away very happy.
Tyler Anderson: Signed to a three-year, $39MM deal, the left-handed Anderson is the lone new face in the Angels starting rotation. A respectable back-of-the-rotation starter for a number of years, Anderson broke out with the Dodgers in 2022, pitching to a 2.57 ERA over 178 2/3 innings. It wasn’t so much an overhaul of his pitching repertoire as it was a few small tweaks (bumping up his changeup usage slightly) that seemingly did the trick for Anderson, and he induced a ton of soft contact out of opposition hitters. If he can show 2022 was no outlier Anderson will slot in as a very reliable second option behind Ohtani.
Patrick Sandoval: The second of four southpaws in the rotation, Sandoval enjoyed his own breakout year in 2022. The 26-year-old gave the Angels 148 innings of 2.91 ERA ball, striking out batters at a 23.7% clip and walking them 9.4% of the time. FIP pegged him a 3.91, which suggests a bit of regression is due, but he also had an above-average opponent’s BABIP of .316. Regardless, even if he can’t post a sub-3 ERA Sandoval definitely has the makings of a very productive starter. He struggled early on in his career, working to a 5.33 ERA between 2019-20, but has been highly effective ever since. One change he did make in 2022 was throwing his fastball less and leaning far more on his slider.
Jose Suarez: The 24-year-old hurled 109 innings of 3.96 ERA ball for the Angels last year, showing a strong 7.1% walk rate and a solid 22.3% strikeout rate, both of which improved from a year prior. He maintained his fastball usage in 2022, but mixed in a slider to his off-speed stuff (which includes a curveball and changeup) that he’d only thrown sparingly in the past. The ERA doesn’t jump off the page, but he was elite in the second half last year, working to a 2.81 ERA over 11 starts after the All Star break. Still just 24 there’s certainly a ton of promise in this youngster, and if he can build off his showing in the second half the Angels will have a very good fourth starter on their staff.
Reid Detmers: Rounding out their five is Detmers, a 23-year-old southpaw who worked to a 3.77 ERA over 129 innings last season, his first full year in the big leagues. He had a fast rise through the system after being drafted 10th overall in 2020, and given there was no minor league season that year it makes his rise to the big leagues, and strong first full season that much more impressive. Detmers owns a 93 mph fastball, and mixes in a slider, curveball and changeup. There’s plenty of upside for Detmers to tap into over the next few years, and if he can take another step forward in 2023 it won’t take long before he’s near the top of a list like this rather than rounding it out.
As noted earlier, it does seem likely that the Angels would opt to bring in a sixth starter to deepen the rotation. That could be someone like Michael Wacha or Johnny Cueto off the free agent market, or they could go with an internal option such as Chase Silseth, Griffin Canning or Chris Rodriguez. They’ve also got top pitching prospect Sam Bachman at Double-A, and getting closer to being a big league option.
Regardless of who the sixth option is, there’s a lot to like about this group, even if they were just able to put in a repeat of their 2022 performance. But the key for the Angels is there’s also a ton of upside in this group, particularly in the back of the rotation. That’s the sort of thing that could go from making this a strong rotation to one that is up there with the best in baseball. Of course, an injury or two could derail things quickly and there’s a chance that players take a step back rather than a step forward, but the potential is there for this group to be dominant.
Wow.
Pig lipstick
You shouldn’t tall about Cohen’s offseason like that, it isn’t very nice…
Anyone who watched any Angel games last season saw solid pitching and basically Shohei and the Island of Misfit Toys in the lineup. Constant injuries and zero depth. There were games with Matt Duffy, Andrew Velasquez, and for the Love of God, Phil Gosselin hit cleanup at times. Dude hit .098 as an Angel last year. Read that again as its not a typo.
Perry is doing his job. Maddon lost his job. Arte is selling the team. Rendon needs to put on his big boy underpants and stay in the freaking lineup. Same with Trout. Its time for the stars to step up and help Shohei.
It’s crazy, I think in almost every other sport if you have two potential HOF locks and generational talents on your team you’re almost assured to be a title contender every year, if not winning titles..
Even so, I truly think Perry Minasian was an excellent hiring for the Angels, and I think he’s got them going in the right direction.
.100 is the new .200
Not for long.
-Manfred/Rawlings
In Trouts defense. A back in injury is not something you mess with. And as far as Rendon goes. I don’t how serious his injury is. But he did come back before the year ended.
Swinging a baseball bat with a bad wrist is probably for non millionaires. Rendon was front line and did stick up for his teammates with a fresh rap bandage. Kinda big boi
Rendon can change his narrative by being healthy and producing for his team this year. Thus far his medical report reads like a laundry list of ailments: oblique in 2020; left groin, knee, triceps, and hip in 2021; and the wrist injury in 2022.
Injuries happen, but there are ways to protect yourself and your body. Cal Ripken wasn’t always 100% healthy during his 2,632 straight games. I’m not asking for Rendon to be Cal, but a complete healthy season (for once as an Angel) would be nice.
Yeah wow until the injuries start. Every time a pitcher starts leaning on their slider as their main pitch like Sandoval is doing now TJS is shortly announced. He probably won’t make it past the Allstar break. Anderson reminds me of other pitchers that seemed to break out in a contract year then turned back into pumpkins. Berrios and Kyle Gibson come to mind. The Angels should have traded Ohtani for another teams entire farm. Then they would have a shot at the playoffs soon. Next year he walks for a draft pick. Any GM would have let them decimate their farm for him. Just think of the Angels with prospects similar to what the Padres gave up for Soto. Soto had eligible years left but a full year of Ohtani on a contender like the Yankees who would do their best to extend him would be just as valuable. I don’t think they would have enough to get him though without touching the ML roster. They gave up too much for Montas. Unless they included him as well whom the Angels could then flip for more prospects.
I agree on Sandoval and Anderson. We had Anderson for the stretch run in ‘21, and I was never wowed with his stuff. I don’t think he has any pitch that’s particularly impressive. This last year, he threw his Change up way more and located really well all season. It got him paid. Good for him. I expect that ERA to be considerably closer to his career average this year.
Sandoval has some nasty stuff but the guy wants a strikeout every at bat and throws waaaaay too many pitches for my taste. I mean, his results were excellent in 2022; I just don’t like calling a guy elite if you can bet the under that he makes it over 6 innings every time. You need 3-4 relievers minimum attached to every one of his starts.
1 year of ohtani does not get you a soto package sorry
They were elite the last four months of the year. The Angels couldn’t hit, the pen was awful and Nevin made a lot of mistakes.
But the top four starters pitched very very well.
Nevin or Maddon? They lost 14 straight with Maddon and he misused the bullpen. Bullpen did a lot better with Nevin.
Both.
Maddon had a 12 game losing streak. Nevin was the manager for the last two games of the 14 game losing streak.
oooh the last 2 games. Wow.
Nevin or Maddon made a lot of mistakes? Maddon had a 14 game losing streak and misused the bullpen. Nevin managed a lot better
Nevin mismanaged the pen as well. Just look at the the three games of the year. It’s like he tried to lose those games.
If the book moneyball is to be believed most organizations have data scientists determining these sort of moves and the coaches are more “middle management” types encouraging morale and providing some experienced feedback to the decision makers. If the Angels aren’t doing this that might explain a lot of the last decade.
Lineup was BEYOND AWFUL!! all the so called depth players were absolute GARBAGE!!
They also acquired Renfroe from Milwaukee.
Good spot – thanks!
Barrel-It was mentioned in the article.
Elite? Mmk
keep sleeping, this is just the beginning of the halos pitching overhaul
If they’re elite, what would that make the Astros and Mariners?
The young starters the Astros brought up behind Verlander were no flashier than the arms in this article. No pure aces (behind Ohtani), but a pipeline of effective starters.
According to the numbers it makes them older (not old but older) and at least in the second half of 22 fewer innings pitched but a better era. So they may have more upside but are already very close to equal on paper.
Wait a year or two for the A’s. Their rotation is going to be elite with Waldichuk, Hoglund, Ginn, Cusick, and Muller.
Because all pitching prospects work out.
Angels starting pitching was 6th in ERA last season and they got better this offseason.
The Astros starters were #2 and the Mariners were 11th.
I’d love to agree with you, but it’s just not true. And I promise you the Astros have so much talent that they can add a veteran ace when they come available at the deadline. If Ohtani goes down– this is what worries me, and why they need another front end arm. C-Rod isn’t even throwing off a mound yet and he probably winds up in the pen– this kid is fragile. Canning has potential, but he’s not been good. As for Silseth– who knows? Probably needs another year in the minors.
I’m not sure what all those numbers mean– it’s baseball. We can all cherry pick certain stats that look great. Look at the pitchers in the Mariners rotation– they’re better. Now maybe they won’t perform, or they get injured and the Angel pitchers all blossom. I expect Anderson to at least be at a low threes ERA, and I expect Ohtani to be better. If Sandoval does a better job of throwing strikes he can go deeper into games and help the pen. Suarez should at the very least be serviceable. Detmers has a very high baseball IQ and I expect him to throw more innings and be more consistent. So if they can land Cueto or Wacha and either pitches close to what they did last year we should be in good shape. Our offense is better than the Mariners, but not Houston.
i understand the Astros, but they lost their Cy Young ace. The Mariners didn’t have a single starter that had an ERA+ over 120 last year.
The Mariners pitch in one of the best pitcher parks. They have a good bullpen/ They did traded their highest ERA+ bullpen arm to the Blue Jays.
Starting pitching has been an issue for the Angels a long time. It wasn’t the issue last year. As the article states, the rotation is potentially elite. It was already 6th last year. The five of the penciled in starters had an ERA under 4.
Ohtani is getting more starts this year, which can possible make him a Cy Young candidate.
Sandoval and Detmers made big strides in showing their potential. Sandoval has 2 elite pitches and is one of the best kept secrets in baseball. Sandoval had an ERA under 3. Detmer should significant improvements over his rookie season. If he continues the progress as he did from year one to year two, he could could do quite well in 2023.
Tyler Anderson had an amazing season last year. Was it an outlier or did he figure something out? If he pitches like he did last year, he will be a improvement to a team that was already 6th in starter’s ERA.
Suarez started off the year poorly, he had an ERA of over 6 after month, but was sent down and come back and to post a respectable ERA under 4 for the season.
I don’t know who the 6th starter will be. It could be a FA or trade or could be whoever performs best in spring training. It should be pretty apparent that the rotation indeed has elite potential considering they were already good last year and the likes of Ohtani, Detmers, Sandoval, and Suarez are all young and have shown major progress and may continue to do so. They also added one of the best performer last year in Tyler Anderson, so yes this is a potentially elite rotation.
Un- Elite
Yeah you can go see them in Vegas.
double elite
The pitchers in the mariners rotation are not better. You literally read an article showing that. Just now. With your eyes.
And if this was true for the A’s, which it definitely isn’t, in a year or two they’ll be traded away anyways.
What a pitching overhaul! Lol.
Perry Minasian and Billy Eppler did wonderful work constructing that rotation. And there’s more on the way too.
Perry didn’t add Ohtani, Suarez, Sandoval or Detmers. Perry could fart and people would call it a divine wind.
I’m hoping he knows what he’s doing, but he’s made some really obvious mistake in the two years he’s been here, and the pen is an obvious week spot and it doesn’t appear he has not done nearly enough to address that weakness.
Has he made the mistakes or was it Moreno’s meddling?
Perry has been limited in payroll flexibility but had the Pujols and Upton contracts expire. He’s rebuilding our horrible farm system and we already have four possible high-octane bullpen arms he drafted that could be ready to play this season. Eppler did a profoundly bad job of drafting and an even worse job developing. And he signed horrible free agents. Perry has a different philosophy with these deals. He was limited by budget restraints the last two seasons.
fong – Moreno has given Minasian unprecedented payroll flexibility this offseason. I believe it’s because he’s pretending to convince Ohtani he is serious about winning and to get the highest price for the team in a sale. If one of those two components weren’t present, I think it would be business as usual at about 175m in payroll. Minasian has done a good job building a foundation that was torn down by previous GMs despite the limitations by Moreno. Previous GMs had the same limitations so I don’t necessarily blame them. Moreno has been to only constant for 19 years.
Minasian has made additions that haven’t worked out but I wouldn’t call them mistakes as some on here do. For years, pitching has been our issue so Minasian drafted 20 pitchers to have them in the pipeline. He’s done what he could with the restraints placed on him by the owner. Hopefully a new owner will continue with what we’ve seen this offseason.
Has he built a great foundation? I don’t know how you people know this. But if this team is good in 2023, very little of it will have been done by Minasian.
Halo – I know you are predisposed to hate Minasian. However, as I pointed out in my example, when we needed pitching, he drafted 20 pitchers. That’s an example of building a foundation for the future. It’s up to the players to succeed, but he addressed the pitching void and continues to do so. The bullpen is next.
I don’t hate him, but you people are blind. If this team is good this year and all he did was add depth, then man, then it’s really obvious he’s done a horrible job with the mlb roster in year one and two.
And guess what? He’s admitted he made huge mistakes. And that’s why I don’t hate him, he’s learning from his mistakes. But many fans didn’t even notice.
And what good are 20 pitches when he missed on the Angels best pick this century…and that was an obvious mistake. I’d rather he get the first pick right. That’s by far the most important one. As for the rest, who knows how that will turn out?
I thought about it over brunch and I decided that “hate” is the wrong word. I should have said you are predisposed to be critical of Minasian.
As I and many others have said, Minasian has done his best with the constraints placed upon the financial outlay by Moreno. Not every player will work out. But he has laid the foundation for the future and now, with Moreno motivated to release more payroll money, he can actually make the MLB team better.
It’s ok if we disagree, Halo. Try not to make it personal with insults.
I really don’t know of the constraints. I don’t know If it was a good draft. I didn’t like Bachman from the beginning. With his motion I couldn’t see how he could be a successful starter. I like Neto a lot. I like his depth moves this year, I don’t like he’s handling the pen.
He seems to learn by his mistakes. I hope he realizes Rengifo can’t play defense and this team needs bullpen help.
I don’t have the confidence that so many seem to have. I just don’t see it.
I’m skeptical but hopeful he knows what he’s doing. If he doesn’t show real results this year, he won’t be here next year.
Halo- I know you think he wasted that one 1st round pick. You don’t think he will make it and if he does, he won’t be a starter. I think you have to look at the draft as a whole. If someone like Silseth performs like a 1st rounder doesn’t that make it just as good. There are plenty hall-a- famers that were not first round. I like his drafts even his NDFAs. It is too early to tell for sure how they all will do. I don’t really have an opinion about Bachman, but I think it is way too early to call it a wasted pick. He had (bad back??) health issues and his velo was lower. He was not getting rocked but was just OK. in minimal innings. Let’s at least see how he does going forward. To say he is a wasted pick at this point I find premature.
I dunno, a lot of them have only had recent success and a couple injuries or down years could blow the whole thing up. Angels need to kick that past habit of overestimating the rotation and go out and get another high end pitcher to support Ohtani and give you some breathing room in case you run into some bad luck/performances.
And hindsight is 20/20… their rotation is the definition of cringe.
Reid Detmers = the next Ryan Weathers
I’m always curious about fans of other teams that come on boards of other teams and talk ignorant smack.
Detmers was a top prospect and has major league success. Weather barely cracked the top 100 and has stunk. The two are not comparable.
Isn’t that almost the exact same rotation as last year and they finished 4th? Tyler Anderson had his best year ever last year so can he back it up? Every year the Angels are supposed to be good but fail. On paper they are 3rd or 4th in their division.
The Angels finished 4th because only Oakland and Detroit scored fewer runs. It had nothing to do with their pitching staff. They were 6th in ERA. 2nd in Shutouts (17, one behind HOU), and 2nd in total WAR for Pitchers.
I have a feeling Tyler Anderson falls apart without the Dodgers run support
the guy just doesn’t strike anyone out and squeezes in QS barely making it 6 innings
I think they overpaid big time for a solid #4 or 5
Yeah they finished 4th because of the crap they rolled out to replace players like Rendon,Upton,Fletcher andWalsh when they went down or released.. Also the BP was. a train wreck
Not representative of the broader Oakland fanbase, seems like each club has always had a healthy respect for each other. I liked your announcers in the years we were both perennial contenders for division leader, they were always pleasant and seemed to enjoy the rivalry. Watched them a couple times last year and they do seem a bit more embittered these days….
One note about Detmers, he got sent down to AAA after a so so debut, he had the no hitter but the majority of his other outings were mediocre starts.
The Angels called him up for the last six weeks of the season, and he dominated, he pitched like an Ace. So the kid has some fire in his belly which is a good thing.
You moved or did Wales become independent of the UK
They’re two different people.
I haven’t heard from A’sfanUK in a while.
Is this one the angry one?
Ruff, count your blessings then. I had to mute that tool.
lol
He is a bit of an embarrassment for us A’s fans.
I just always say he’s not a real A’s fan, cause he never actually acts like one.
Tomorrow’s headline: Wales-Bails.
Yes, they are very comparable considering they both spent one full season in the bigs.
Weathers:
30G, 18GS, 94.2IP, 5.32ERA, 6.8K/9IP, 1.9HR/9IP, -0.3WAR
Detmers:
25G, 25GS, 129IP, 3.77ERA, 8.5k/9IP, 0.9HR/9IP, +2.4WAR
Regarding Detmers: He had a series of poor starts following the no-hitter. He was sent to AAA and coach there made immediate adjustment. After that, he was back on top again. His 2022 stars are a classic “ignore a few games” to see a better idea of how good he will be.
I’m thinking of a start vs TEX where he pitched 6 inn, struck out a dozen and walked 2 or 3, gave up 2 runs , and the Angels lost 5-2 because the offense was so horrific.
Detmers was sent down briefly in June, tweaked things, and came back a completely different pitcher.
After July 1st:
IP 71
K 79
HR 2 (!!)
ERA 3.04
9 starts where he gave up 2 runs or less.
At age 22.
He’s young and he’s for real.
There’s a reason the scouts thought he was a top 10 draft pick.
Elite rotation? Their rotation would be lucky to crack the top 20 in baseball. Ohtani can make a case for an ace but I would never count on him to pitch a full season due to all the stress on his body, Anderson is 3rd starter, everyone else that was named is potentially a 5th starter/Triple-A starter. MLBTR must be running out of ideas. Would be better off making an article about how much gasoline is used by these mlb team’s private jets or the amount of tiolet paper a whole team uses every year. Would be more interesting this
So what team can say that the last four months of the year they had one pitcher with a sub two ERA, one with a sub three ERA, two with mid three ERA, and added a pitcher with a mid two ERA? Not many.
Those guys were sure elite the last four months of last year.
And over the course of the year the stater era ranked 6th in all mlb. Plus there’s more upside than any rotation in baseball with their youth.
People missed how good the starters pitched last year.
I get it’s been a while since there’s been a winning season, but I think we define “elite” differently.
We could easily define elite differently. I doubt many teams had four pitchers pitch the way the Angels pitched the last four months last yea4 and they added a pitcher who pitched great last year. Damn Good may not be the same as elite, but that’s kind of semantics are not worth the effort to debate.
People who don’t understand this staff was damn good last year weren’t paying attention.
For comparison, the Astros Post All Star:
Valdez – 3.02 ERA, .241 AVG
LMJ – 2.27 ERA, .215 AVG
Javier – 1.79 ERA, .152 AVG
JV – 1.51 ERA, .170 AVG
Garcia – 3.80 ERA, .239 AVG
Urquidy – 3.75 ERA, .220 AVG
Brown – 0.89 ERA, .205 AVG
Astros are great. I hate the team, but they are great.
The Angels and Astro pitching sure had some profitable days for me on DraftKings. They were usually big discounts because of their cheap pricing, especially the Angels’staff.
I can see the Angels put together some extensive winning streaks this season, if they are all clicking.
I think having Velasquez at SS was another reason the ERA was among the best in baseball.
He’s not a good hitter, but that guy can play some serious D. He played great at 2B on shifts. I actually thought Rengifo played acceptable defense at 2B,Ss and 3B. Rengifo had a good arm at 3B.
They were 6th in ERA last season and are better now. Pay attention. There is quality baseball west of the Hudson.
East coasters think everything west of the Hudson we are running around in loin cloths and shooting bows an arrows. Aaron Judge– California native. Gerritt Cole– Cali. What percentage of baseball players are from California, or the west in general– most.
I tend to think there’s a lot from Dominican Republic but that’s just me
Baseball exists outside of NY, try paying better attention
Well, the position of the author is that it “could potentially be” an elite rotation. And it really could if they stay healthy, repeat performances, and Detmers continues to rise to his potential, which is reasonable.
The problem with the Angels from my outsider’s perspective is their bullpen & offense, both of which they could’ve added to fairly easily.
Now, people may criticize me for this opinion, but the Angels had a decent offseason (say….B-) because they did address weaknesses. But they could addressed their ‘pen (and still can) with some quality arms. If they add Cueto I believe that would be a good fit as well (or perhaps Greinke).
Also, they could add some quality IF options to facilitate offense behind their pitching. And, they can do all of this without adding big-money contracts to their books (either very short-term or low AAV). Just my two cents……
Yankee Clipper dead on. Too many haters did not read potentially elite .
The staff is young , Detmers was drafted in the first round with #2 potential (Baseball America) and threw a no hitter before his 20th MLB start, Sandoval has a top 5 change in MLB, plus fastball, and excellent slider (trending towards a solid 2), Suarez also has a top change plus fastball and trending toward a solid 2/3, all these starters are under 26.
Anderson IMHO is their #5. So if all stay healthy , the young SP continue to improve, and they have shown over the last 2 years they have, Ohtani once again is in the top 3 Cy Young voting , this season the Angels would have an Ace, plus 3 solid #2’s plus Anderson. Anderson is a sold #5. They really need to score runs this year.
They still need closer and SS.
The defense will improve this year by having Renfroe in LF as their LF defense was horrible last year, plus if Walsh returns healthy to 1b ( Gold Glove finish 2021) and Rendon at third all of the above pitchers benefit.
Renfro is playing Right Field. Taylor Ward will be moving to Left field.
Clipper, I think you are spot on. The bullpen lacks talent. Counting on talented AA pitchers to step up while sporting a 200 million dollar payroll is just flat out nuts.
SS is a big question mark, just not as big as the pen.
pirates could have an elite rotation too.
…in theory
No… they can’t. They could have an elite shortstop. An elite closer, but not an elite rotation.
why not?
Roansey and Keller are both nasty
Rich Hill has more experience than anyone in the entire league
Because nasty stuff with limited to no prior results, even though they have had ample opportunity, would not qualify as potential.
lfg – “Would be better off making an article about how much gasoline is used by these mlb team’s private jets or the amount of tiolet (sic) paper a whole team uses every year.”
Thanks for the insight into your world.
remember when ppl fell for the toilet paper crisis?
as if capitalism didn’t have that covered..
I wouldn’t say it’s elite, but it’s better than the 80% of posters saying that their pitching sucks still
The article didn’t say they were elite. They have the potential to be elite.
Next, do an article on the Pirates, Tigers and Nationals potentially elite rotations..
Every rotation could potentially be elite if they pitch at elite levels.. but very unlikely for the Angels.
@Ryan, Ohtani was a top 5 pitcher in AL, Sandoval and Anderson both pitched very well. The back end of this rotation is young and to an extent unproven. While the top 3 do not make them a tier 1 rotation. This is easily a tier 3 with tier 2 upside. With a little luck health wise this team could b surprisingly competitive.
Ohtani is a legit Cy Young candidate and elite. He won 15 games on a sub .500 team that finished 34 games out– what does he do with more help this year? Sandoval had a sub-three ERA. Detmers through a no-hitter. Suraez was mid-twos in his ERA his last 11 starts. Anderson is for real and pitched at an elite level last year– so the talent is there. Can they execute? Stay healthy? Will the bullpen be effective? Who knows? That’s why they play the games.
I think anyone who actually watched Tyler Anderson pitch last year knows he was shakey.
but the guy squeezed out some good conventional numbers and turned it into a huge overpay I’d assume
Goku, huge overpay for Tyler is comical.Get real pal, anything can happen, but most have the deal as one of the better buys this off-season.
he’s the 44th highest paid pitcher in the mlb next season.
a career 4 ERA guy is not a top 50 SP just because of one low-k season of 2.47 ERA behind a ton of early run support
Everyone’s hating but I tend to agree with the writer. Top three are solid. And the other two put together some really excellent streaks, plus, they’re both really young with room for improvement. They may not be elite as everyone has pointed out, but five starters with an ERA under four with potentially a couple under three is very good.
Elite? Probably. Wasted on a team going nowhere? Also probable.
If they’re elite they will be going somewhere with their offense– that’s the point. If they flop, okay– it’s another failed season. But if they pitch like they did last year with the new additions and more high powered offense they’ll be dangerous. O’Hoppe is a rookie f the year candidate behind the plate– the kid can hit and he’s a good catcher.
Thanks for jinxing us, ha ha.
Pretty remarkable a headline like this is possible and supportable after so many years of dreadful pitching.
I hope this holds true and that an infusion of Trash Pandas turns the bullpen elite.
I would have to agree about this rotation not being elite. Definitely a good rotation, but far from elite. I think they need another ace-type before I would call it elite. Rotations that I think would be elite, in no particular order:
– Mets (Scherzer, Verlander, Carrasco, Senga, Quintana)
– Yankees (Cole, Rodon, Cortes, Severino, Montas)
– Braves (Fried, Strider, Morton, Wright, Soroka/Anderson)
The Angels rotation pales in comparison to those guys, imo.
Last season the Angels starters listed in the article had a better ERA than any of the staffs you listed.
How could the Angels of 2022 have “had a better ERA than any of the staffs you listed”? That Mets staff is only returning 2 of their 5 starters. Yanks added Rodon, too.
I’m not disagreeing that the Angels could have a fantastic rotation, but I don’t understand how the Angels starters in 2022 had a better ERA than two staffs who have yet to pitch as a staff.
Yeah, you can’t really compare the Angels staff last season to the current staff of the 3 teams I’ve mentioned… As @rct mentioned: the Mets’ current rotation has 3 members that weren’t in it last season; the Yankees added Rodon to what was already one of the better rotations in baseball; and the Braves will have Soroka to start the year, although time will tell how he recovers from surgery, but he was one of the best young pitchers in the league before he got hurt.
I’m not saying the Angels have a bad rotation. I’m just saying that outside of Ohtani and last season’s version of Tyler Anderson, I think the Angels’ staff has too many question marks to be considered as elite. And @carllafong mentioned a few other rotations that are better than the Angels staff, although I wouldn’t call any of those elite (although Urias/Buehler/Kershaw are still one helluva top 3 if Buehler ever gets back on track after his surgery…)
The Mariners are better and so is San Diego and the Dodgers and Toronto…
As for the Mets, other than Verlander you can’t count the rest to be healthy.
Braves, outside the top 2, questions on what they will get out of them.
Yankees, can Nestor repeat what he did last season?
The Angels had a better team ERA than the Mariners.
The Dodgers, other than Urías, they have questions on how many starts the rest of the rotation will give them.
Toronto again the Angels had a better team ERA than they did this past season.
Padres, if healthy, will have a better rotation than the Angels.
I always laugh at how no one actually pays attention to the Angels. And automatically know what they need and don’t need. That be like me, trying to tell people what’s wrong with the Ducks, when I don’t know anything about Hokey
they need to win a playoff series
They all performed pretty adequately last year it seems and the Angels were still a dumpster fire
The starting rotation wasn’t the problem last season.
The Mets rotation is old. JV is okay but Scherzer will run out of gas by the end of May.
Winslow, you don’t watch much baseball, do you?
Ella- Are you saying JV and Scherzer are NOT old?
It was because of the BP and the lousy players used when a regular was hurt. Try reading the article before commenting.
It’s difficult to imagine the Angels having an elite rotation. Beginning about 12 years ago the Angels began to throw absurd amounts of money away on terrible contracts to Vernon Wells, Albert Pujols, Josh Hamilton, Justin Upton and Anthony Rendon all the while completely ignoring the one thing they really needed, starting pitching.
Now, out of the blue they have an elite pitching staff because they signed Tyler Anderson?
Granted I checked the stats of Detmers, Sandoval and Suarez and they had solid seasons last year.
I don’t mean to be a hater, but elite? Come on.
They have Ohtani for one more year and he is so out of there, and they’re back to at best a solid rotation.
Which is an improvement ever since their 2002 title and certainly since Trout’s rookie season during which time the rotation has been a joke (except for Ohtani).
“An improvement ever since 2002”?!
The Angels have had many solid rotations since 2002. Their last “elite” rotation might have been in 2012 when they had Jered Weaver, CJ Wilson, Dan Haren, Ervin Santana, and traded for Zack Greinke at the deadline.
They are probably better now than in 2012 (Santana 5.16 ERA, Haren 4.33 ERA) but Weaver was very good, and John Lackey was excellent for several years before that. Jarrod Washburn and CJ Wilson had a couple of good years. They had a good rotation in 2014 as well. But you’re right not a joke through 2014.
Wells was traded for. For the millionth time.
The Angels should sign Bauer after the Dodger release him. I don’t care what he did when he’s away from the ballpark. The Pasadena PD.Couldn’t find any reason to charge him. It’s only going to cost the Angels $700K. I don’t want Cueto or Wacha.
I want someone that can pitch and be a #1. It’s time the Angels put on their big boy pants and make a bold move.
Tbh, if the Angels did decide to sign Bauer (and Bauer does pitch as usual), then I’d be more inclined to add the Angels to the list of elite rotations…
Thats a move that I think would cost the team in the long run. Majority of MLB players (particularly free agents) are family men and most of their wives will not want to associate with an organization that would knowing employ someone who has a reputation of being violent towards women.
wrong. theyre mostly all frat boy jocks with fake “family first” appearance.
ya family first, right after hooking up with a different girl every city
but a couple million and a prenupt can make people say you’re wonderful family man.
Bauer was targeted by the MLB for his comments against the league
Would you care it it was your sister or daughter? On second thought your take on the issue would no doubt be one or both of them should be willing to take one for the team,
Bauer is scum and I highly doubt many players want to share a clubhouse with him. Of course you Xbox and fantasy league know it all types have it all figured out.
Bauer is toxic and even though he hasn’t announced it you can consider him retired.
All’s quiet regarding Shintaro but he could fit nicely as #6/long relief.
Dylan Bundy was going to lead an elite rotation in 2021.
Keep guessing and eventually you’ll be right.
What percentage of these pitchers who had career years statistically last year will repeat or improve?
What percentage will regress to their career norms?
I agree it could be a very good rotation, but I think expecting it will be a very good rotation is expecting a repeat of last year, which is improbable, statistically.
The Angels have a habit of overpaying for players after career years.
…
But sooner or later it has to payoff.
No one thought Bundy was ever going to lead any kinda of elite rotation.
This article is delusional as can be…for whatever reason, MLBTR is really hyping the Angels this season when in all actuality they should be disbanded for malpractice. Due to how the team has absolutely wasted not one but TWO generational talents in Trout and Ohtani, the Angels deserve all the criticism coming their way.
A rotation containing Detmers and Jose Suarez is most assuredly not elite.
Disappointing that MLBTR is on the take.
I don’t think it’s right that Shohei has to be the #1. It’d be better if they had other arms that bumped him down to a guaranteed #2 or #3 to take the pressure off.
Elite Roatation WTF?
If all elite wrestling (AEW) can call themselves elite then the Angel’s pitching staff can call themselves elite.
The Angels didn’t write the article. Again the article says the Angels rotation has the POTENTIAL to be elite. Reading is fundamental.
I feel as though Detmers could definitely be a top arm in the next few years.
By elite does the writer mean solid to good? Elite would be Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz-Avery/Neagle or Palmer-McNally-Cuellar-Dobson or Bender-Plank-Coombs (even Kluber-Carrasco-Bauer-Salazar-Clevinger). Or does elite now mean good and there is a new word for elite?
Reading is hard. “Potentially Elite” is different than “Elite”
And FYI the Angels starters last year Ohtani/Sandoval/Detmers/Suarez/Lorenzen/Syndergaard posted a 3.62ERA.
2017 Cleveland (Kluber-Carrasco-Bauer-Salazar-Clevinger) 3.57ERA That’s a HUGE difference.
People who mostly observe the Angels’ ongoing failures from afar often miss the things that sink this team the most. The rotation was *very* good last year, despite an ongoing presumption that it’s what holds them back. With Trout and Rendon’s health constantly being a problem, and Stassi and Walsh’s huge regressions, plus nagging injuries for Fletcher, they *really* tested their total lack of depth last year and it was ugly.
Even if none of the offseason acquisitions are “sexy,” they gave 6 players 100+ PAs last year with *negative* WARs. Including more than 1100 combined between 3 of them. Replacing multiple -0.5 guys with even 2 WAR guys can easily net a team 10 or more wins.
At that point, they’re banking on partial bounceback campaigns from the regressed players, slightly better health, and another step forward for young guys. The talent *is* assembled for once. It just needs to hold together.
Cant wait for the “Marlins potential juggernaut offense” article
We’d love to read your articles instead. Not.
Yet, here you are reading and crying about what I have to say.
What a hard-hitting, insightful article. Fangraphs must be quaking in their boots.
We’d love to read your articles instead. Not.
Ok MLBTR writer burner account
“Elite” is really subjective, just like truth in the world we like in today. There are really only a few pitching staffs you can look at and truly say, that is an “elite”staff.
A few examples:
The Dodgers. Last year there were points in the season their starters were absolutely ridiculous!
The Padres. Musgrove and Gore before the All-Star game were basically unhitable for a period of time. Their bullpen except for a couple guys all threw like 900mph, lol.
The Mets, when fully healthy? Good night!
Atlanta, good luck facing them when they were on!
I could go on and on. If we were to start breaking down stats I’m sure I’d get shut down and told how I’m wrong and the Angels had better this and that.
But I’ll say this and I’m going to sound super old school and like, “get off my lawn guy!” Stats are great and yes, important but, stat driven baseball is boring! That’s what Angles pitching is stat driven, it’s boring! You go to a game and outside of Shohei, it’s painfully boring! I don’t give a rip about the stars of a team that’s consistently 30+ games out every year!
Every pitching staff I mentioned above is exciting! They win, consistently! They’re competitive! Their brand of baseball is way more exciting even when they lose!
I grew up an Angels fan. My first game was with Reggie Jackson in the outfield. I was at the wild card series in ‘02 when the Angels beat the Yankees, I think I stil have my thunder sticks. I still hate Mo Vaughn and have nightmares about the Disney days and blue pinstripes.
But there came a point about 8yrs ago I couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t be the stat apologist and argue the bad signings, bad ownership, the stupid name change, etc… I gave up, I didn’t cry like the day Donnie Moore lost that game for us in ‘84 RIP Donnie. I walked away and began a new misery as a Padres fan!
It was 1986 when the Angels gave it up to the Red Sox. I was at the infamous game when Donnie Moore gave up the HR to Hendu.
@BBTB the Angles lack the fire IMO. They’ve had some opportunities with talent but ownership doesn’t care. Such a waste the CA Angeles are
You spelled the Angels wrong 2 different ways. Hilarious.
Phil Nevin is a bush league manager and a raging hot head. That ownership and upper management doesn’t see the need to improve at manager and coaching shows they are clueless. The Rangers hired Bochy a HOF manager. The Angels are the fourth best team and going nowhere.
4th place team.
Ohtani is an elite pitcher. He has elite stuff which makes it more likely he can repeat it year in and year out as long as he is healthy.
Anderson on the other and doesn’t have elite stuff but was extremely good. As a padres fan I waited all year for him to go back to sucking but he never did. Can he continue his extremely good ride or will he regress. I’d expect regression but maybe he has figured something out that he can carry over to another season.
Guys like Anderson are the reason you can say potentially elite. Though the stuff isn’t there 1-6 to believe in it too much yet.
Also era isn’t the best stat to use to see how a pitcher is performing or better yet should perform in the future. Without having spent any time examining the underlying numbers it will be interesting to see how they do.
Everybody seems pretty grumpy. Going back to work today ??
Elite?
Potentially elite. Can’t you read?
Nothing about that rotation is even “Potentially” elite. Outside of Detmers and Ohtani, they don’t have anything. The other 3 are just guys. Easily replaceable guys.
Is there any particular reason you’re choosing to weigh in with certainty on a topic you clearly haven’t bothered to look into at all?
The rotation was 6th in the majors in ERA last year, *before* adding Anderson. Every starter who is returning put up *minimum* 2 WAR. With Anderson on board, 3 of the 5 projected put up 3.5WAR or better, and none of those 3 is Detmers, the one you named, and who likely has the most room to progress. Definitionally 2-4 win pitchers are not “easily replaceable.”
If you think the Angels’ rotation was the problem, you just flatly didn’t pay attention. Which is fine. But just… Don’t weigh in on it then?
If this is elite, lol, then I’m starting to feel a lot better about the Giants.
Potentially elite. Can’t you read?
Nothing about that rotation is even Potentially elite. Put the rose colored glasses down. Everyone in that rotation aside from Ohtani is a #3-5 type starter.
Sandoval had the 11th highest pitching WAR in the AL last year. How is the #11 pitcher in a league of 15 teams a “#3-5 type starter?” Tyler Anderson played in the NL, but in the AL his WAR would have made him #7.
Just stop embarrassing yourself. The potential is clearly there, you’re just an ignorant hater.
I still believe the Astros rotation headlined by Javier, Valdez, Garcia, urquidy is better and more experienced than this angels rotation. Angels rotation compares more favorably to the Mariners, but I would still take Seattle and Houston’s rotation over Anaheim’s rotation.
Lmfao? What? The Mariners have a top 5 rotation in baseball. Castillo, Ray, Gilbert, Kirby, Flexen/Gonzalez blows that Angels rotation out of the water.
Oh…so this is the year.
Since this article is about the Angel’s starting pitching, they do have some players at the back end that have the potential to take that next step, it’s still just potential. The Angel’s will need these players to keep progressing in order to make the playoffs in 2023. It’s going to be tough for all of them to improve but it’s possible. Some good luck will be needed, so Good luck Angels!
The Angels aren’t close to an elite staff. They have an elite pitcher, that’s it.
What part of potentially elite don’t you understand? Can you even read?
They aren’t potentially elite either, azzweepay.
What happened to Canning and Rodriguez last year? TJ surgery? The story mentions them as internal options but neglects to mention neither threw a pitch in organized baseball last year. Internal options yes, but i wouldn’t classify either as reliable internal options. Real wild cards, if you ask me.
They should both look at second properties on the IL
Canning did throw early but pain persisted in his back. Found to have a a stress fracture and shut down.
C Rod? Shoulder surgery. If… he can continue his career and stay healthy, the bullpen has to be in his plans. Too bad if he can’t stay healthy, this kid’s stuff is for real..
The mojo isn’t there. Sell off every player & start over.
Wow, 4 lefties in that rotation. How often do you see that?
I hope so. It’s been tough eatching their supposedly strong starting staff ever since Nick Adenhart died.
Angel’s elite pitching staff ? That’s an oxymoron