With the Giants in pursuit of at least a wild card berth and maybe the NL West crown, San Francisco is looking to make some additions at the trade deadline. At least one of those possibilities is a big name, as MLB Network’s Jon Morosi (Twitter link) reports that the Giants are one of the clubs interested if Justin Verlander opts to waive his no-trade clause to join another team.
The 45-51 Mets are 6.5 games behind the Phillies for the final NL wild card slot, and four other teams sit between Philadelphia and New York in the wild card standings. While the Mets have a 9-5 record thus far in July, they may already be in too deep a hole to mount a serious charge at the postseason, and it looks like the club will be sellers in some respect at the deadline barring a big winning streak between now and August 1. Given the Mets’ record payroll, they might well wait until close to the last minute before the deadline to determine the extent (if at all) of their selloff, as the Amazins might only look to move pending free agents, or they could make a more significant move in dealing a controlled asset like Verlander.
One of the top players available in the 2022-23 offseason, Verlander signed a two-year, $86.66MM deal to join the Mets, and the contract also contains a $35MM vesting option for 2025 (Verlander gets that $35MM player option if he tosses at least 140 innings in 2024). A teres major strain near the end of Spring Training delayed Verlander’s Mets debut until May 4, and while there was some rust over his first month of action, Verlander has more recently started to display his usual form. The right-hander has a 1.74 ERA over his last five starts and 31 innings, though his strikeout rate (20.8%) and walk rate (10.4%) haven’t yet normalized.
These numbers, the large salary, and Verlander’s age (40) stand out as red flags for a possible trade suitors, though these concerns are also perhaps simply outweighed by Verlander’s incredible track record. It was just last season that Verlander won the AL Cy Young Award and helped lead the Astros to a World Series title, and even his recent outings suggest that he has plenty left in the tank. An argument can also be made that Verlander might benefit from a change of scenery, with the ideal scenario being his last stint as a trade candidate. Verlander was already pitching well for the Tigers in 2017 but his performance was kicked into a higher gear when Detroit moved him to Houston on August 31, resulting in Verlander playing a big part in the Astros’ first championship.
It is worth noting that Verlander waived a previous no-trade clause in his Tigers contract to accommodate that 2017 deal, though the Astros agreed to waive a $22MM vesting option that was included for the 2020 season. If Verlander was open to a trade this summer, he might first insist that his potential $35MM in 2025 get turned into a player option right away, without the vesting threshold. Of course, this is just speculative and Verlander might be willing to waive his no-trade protection entirely to join a contender, but it is an example of the leverage that he holds in whatever trade talks the Mets might explore with other teams.
Even taking on an extra $35MM in 2025 wouldn’t necessarily be an obstacle for the Giants, who don’t have much in the way of long-term payroll commitments on their books. Acquiring Verlander would also represent a win in the team’s longstanding search to land a face-of-the-franchise superstar, after coming up short on signing Aaron Judge in the offseason and having their deal with Carlos Correa scuttled due to medical concerns. This isn’t the first time San Francisco has been linked to Verlander, as the Giants were one of the many teams who had scouts attending Verlander’s showcase when he was a free agent in the 2021-22 offseason.
Despite the high price tag of Verlander’s contract, the length of the deal fits the Giants’ general preference for shorter-term contracts, especially for pitchers. Most of San Francisco’s current rotation consists of veteran starters on two-year or three-year contracts, and since Alex Wood and (pending a club option) Alex Cobb might both free agents this winter, trading for Verlander would provide a top-shelf upgrade both for this year’s playoff run and at least through the 2024 campaign.
Returning to the financial aspect, it is possible that Verlander’s salary might not even be the Giants’ problem, should the Mets agree to pay most or all of his salary in order to land a better prospect return. This would represent a larger-scale version of the strategy the Mets have already employed in earlier moves this summer (trading Eduardo Escobar to the Angels and temporarily acquiring Chris Flexen from the Mariners), as owner Steve Cohen has no issue in spending big, whether that means acquiring MLB talent or in using the payroll to accommodate the acquisition of premium young talent. Considering that the Mets still plan to contend in 2024, they would naturally want some big league-ready help if they moved a front-of-the-rotation arm like Verlander.
Quote:
The right-hander has a 1.74 ERA over his last five starts and 31 innings, though his strikeout rate (20.8%) and walk rate (104%) haven’t yet normalized.
104% walk rate? Oh, my goodness. No thank you.
Yeah, that walk rate definitely hasn’t normalized.
Maybe he meant “normal guy’s”?
Seems like I missed a pretty important decimal point in there. The correction has been made!
That’s what I like about MLBTR. Authors are in the chat interacting with the users and listening to users.
Big thumbs up for your work, Mark Polishuk.
Darn, you didn’t need to be so quick about it! I was really enjoying thinking about how a pitcher could walk more batters than he faces.
It’s like when you walk two dogs at once, I was thinking.
That means you have 104% poop scoop rate?
My idea is if you walk enough batters there’s some sort of penalty round.
By adding in some IBB’s..? (Well, unofficially anyway, because he wouldn’t have to “face” them.)
Don’t give Manfred any ideas.
Good on ya M.ark Polishuk
Montgomery from the cards would be better for them
I would think every team in the major leagues would want a pitcher like Justin Verlander on their pitching staff.
Not at that price tag.
Not at that inconsistent level of production. At that price, you expect Uber consistency, excellence and certainty and Verlander is anything but.
They won’t be paying that price tag. Steve Cohen has made it clear that he is willing to eat salary.
@MarlinsFanBase- I’m sure the Mets would pay at least half of that though.
I think Verlander and Scherzer are like trophies for Cohen, and he’s not going to give up what he thinks makes him superior to everyone else.
I think you want to spell—in this case—uber with a small “u.” Or are you saying the shuttle service is the cream of the crop?
@avenger65- no reason why Cohen can’t keep one. My guess is he’ll probably keep Scherzer who lives in my neighborhood now in a beautiful home. Verlander could probably net 1 top prospect, and a 10-15 prospect if the Mets pick up at least 50-65% of his contract. Thinking Cohen will probably do that.
better than Lyft
Captain-judge – and that’s why fans wouldn’t make very good gms at all. Zero reason for any sub .500 club to acquire him. Zero reason for any small market team to acquire him at anything close to that salary. And if the Mets are paying like 80% of the money they’re better off keeping him. Zero reason for any club who’s in the luxury tax to acquire him unless they’re a serious contender.
I’ve just narrowed the field from every team like you mentioned to about 6 off the top of my head.
of which the giants fit… even though they are a faux contender. and the article was about the giants, Verlander makes sense for them, no matter what. the only part that doesn’t work is their arrogant “all about me” PBO.. FZ has no interest in anything that doesn’t show him to be shrewd
Have you ever listened to Farhan’s interviews Chipsssssss? He is far from arrogant. You are completely incorrect there. He’s affable, down to earth, nerdy, giggly, pensive, talkative, and warm.
That’s quite a narrative you’ve made up Chipster.
Faux comment, Chirpee!
The truth is, the best thing for the Mets to do is likely nothing. Sometimes a good team just has a bad year, and they rebound and gel in the next season. For example, the 1986 Cardinals was largely the same team as in 1985 and 1987.
The 1988 Cubs was almost the same team as the 1989 Cubs
the 1955 Giants collaspe after 1954
1988 Giants
2005 Dodgers
1964 Dodgers
1954 Dodgers
1940 Dodgers
1971 Reds
It happens and one is best to have some faith in your scouts and the talent.
Actions speak louder than words in my book. But I’m glad you enjoy farhan so much
No Cap!
Gotta love when fans have one of the best gms who intelligently avoids giving up bad contracts and they hate him for it because his correct decisions don’t line up with your incorrect opinions
10.4
I don’t think there’s any chance that the Mets trade him. What about 2024? That would seem to be giving up.
Overall, Verlander hasn’t been that great, especially considering the price tag. Does your team really need Verlander to compete in ’24?..He’s been up and down, injured and booed off the mound at least a couple times.
The common refrain about any team that is planning to compete next season trading off controlled pitchers this month is that this year’s free agent class is rich in pitching so those teams can still restock through free agency.
He’s still good enough to be at the top of just about any rotation in baseball. Hard to put a price tag on that.
Blue skies: Cohen already did
> Does your team really need Verlander
Ack, I don’t like the Mets! Nothing that they do makes any sense to me. I did not agree with signing Verlander (his age) in the first place but now that they have him they should keep him and see if they can
lose(sorry, ahem) win 100 in 2024.One thing for sure. If any team can make it possible, it’s the LOL Mets!
Hemlock, I’m a Mets fan and nothing they do makes sense to me also! They call up Vientos again, and they have no place for him! Corner infielder- Baty at 3rd,Pete at first, and Buck says that he’ll use him occasionally. WTF Mets?
Sorry man. Eppler needs a boss or two. A president of baseball operations and a team president/CEO. I don’t know if that fixes what’s wrong but it might help a lot more in the long run than what they’ve got going on right now.
Mets are going to do Mets things.
This sort of general comment comes up often and I just want to know what different moves The Mets FO should have made off a 101 win season. Sign Rodón, deGrom, Bassitt, Walker? Who can really blame them for trying the same move of signing older HOF pitcher but on short term deal?
Looks like the Marlins got your hopes up but spiraling their way down as usual.
@Mets6986
Yep, the Marlins are spiraling down. I didn’t really have my hopes up. I was just watching as we went along, curious to see how far they’ll go this year and wondering how far along are they in their rebuild.
However, even with the downward spiral and questions of some fans being let down after having their hopes up, it could be worse. I think every Marlins fan is thankful that the team isn’t spedning well above every other single team in MLB history and having a season where hope ended in April. I can’t imagine being the fan of a laughing stock like that.
As I see it, their biggest failing was not really shoring up that bullpen with a few more proven quality arms. Old, some very old starters needed the support. Instead they keep trying the almost were, showed potential once, might be healthy guys. Buck knows this and he uses who they supply. Might have been a whole nother’ season around here, even with no Diaz.
Are you kidding me? Remember 2014 when everyone said Verlander was done?
The first two years with Houston, Verlanders contract was from the Tigers which Detroit paid quite a bit of. He did well enough so Houston extends him at a very high increase. In 2020 Verlander pitched one game. In 2021 Verlander pitched 0 games. 2022 he pitched 28 games. Verlander was paid for 2 years for nothing but the 28 games & a CY Young Award in 2022.
Houston got
1 pretty good year
2 Great years
and
2 lost years
A very, very high price per game pitched paid by Houston for his services.
87 games pitched over his 5 full seasons with Houston.
I can’t find his old contracts but I am pretty sure he was making at least $25M per year when Detroit traded him plus more when he was extended. Even at $25M x 5=$125M/87=Over $1.4M per game pitched.
I don’t think that many people remembered he lost two full seasons. His full pay by Houston was about $152M for 11.4 bWAR.
Booing off of the mound (BOM) is one of the analytics I have not considered yet.
I think I will put it between FIP and SwStr%…
And don’t forget xWOBAloney.
Might be looking to get younger in 2024. The old rotation is a common theme in the criticism.
Hold on is this coach Jesse Foppert?
farhan bootlicker 101 lol. was incredibly smug at times this year and absent during all the other times
foppert is sometimes missing because he actually works and does things with his life, unlike some on here that have no life and like to spread falsehoods and vitriol
@Chipsss Yeah the Farhan bootlickers are pathetic and annoying
@agnes gooch speaking of yourself…
#FireFarhan is grumpy after watching the Barbie movie…don’t you have a 50 minute rant video to make??
A decade ago, they just won their second championship in 3 years, maybe you should have said two decades ago..
What does the Barbie movie have to do with the subject at hand? Absolutely nothing. I’m glad you enjoyed the movie, though I haven’t seen it.
Oh wait… Were you trying to make a political reference, on a sports blog? How ridiculous. And were you to suggest that I was a republicant? If so, wrong again. Assuming makes an @$$ out of u n me
easier said than done
Trading Verlander and/or Scherzer would free up a lot of cash to retool the roster over the winter so while they would definitely be waiving the white flag on this season they wouldn’t necessarily be punting on next year
Same problems exist, no top tier SP on the farm, and the rotation would be even more full of holes. I can’t imagine being excited by a rotation of Scherzer, Quintana, Megill, Peterson after all of them having poor to terrible seasons so far. Senga has been good though. One thing has been pretty consistent about the Eppler / Cohen “strategy” and long deals for older pitchers has not been a part of it.
Scherzer can opt out at season’s end so it would probably be better to trade him instead of JV unless trade both and there’s quite a few free agent SP’s next year starting with Ohtani, Yamamoto, Aaron Nola, Urias just to name some, if the Mets trade both and Carrasco’s a free agent, than the Mets only SP’s for next year are Senga, Quintana (Peterson/Megill)
What value does Scherzer have? And why would he opt out of 43M after such a poor season? Why would Ohtani play for The Mets after this mess of a season? I’m not saying their are not SP available, just that they don’t match The Mets recent tactic. Nola, Urias will want long term deals. It just a guess, but I expect they will retain JV and Max and try and try again next year.
Ohtani would play for the Mets after this mess of a season for one reason: money. It’s that simple
No it wouldn’t. They can sign Yamamoto, Urias and/or Ohtani to replace him or Scherzer. The way the Mets spend money, a combination or all three could be in Queens next year.
Where are all those Padre fans who were laughing at the Giants this off-season? Can’t find any of em, it’s so weird.
M&B, I’ve come to really appreciate the Mute button. I’m about to use it for the second time today. I don’t have the time or energy for people like GMoney.
I know right lol. Padres no matter what they trade for or who they sign they can’t seem to put it together.
I do the opposite. I laugh because clearly it wasn’t ever going to work. Thinking the reason you couldn’t beat the dodgers was payroll and just spending to spend. Spending doesn’t equal winning. Betting against those teams is easy money every end of September nice big bonus.
@iverbure you can do both. Commend a small market team willing to spend money, while also laughing at their failure to buy a contender.
I’ll always applaud teams for actually spending — imagine what the Rays could have been the past 15 years if they augmented their deep farm with some spending, like the perennial 1st-place Dodgers. The Padres are a dumpster fire this season, but I’d rather be a Padres fan getting swept up in the excitement than a fan of the many teams who don’t even pretend to try fielding a quality team.
That’s not what I did. The padres tried to hotshot their way to the playoffs before their team learned how to win and lose on their own. If your gm can’t a build a winner through the farm and farm alone he’s got no business ever giving out a a free agent contract.
The rays wouldn’t be where they’re at if they spent. Inevitably they would’ve got stuck with an underperforming player who they probably couldn’t get rid of.
this. I commend the padres for trying as well. they have a good manager. a great city and fanbase. sure… a couple of their stars are total asshats… and as a giants fan I root against them constantly. but I wish my team tried like this team tries
Padres run the team like a fantasy league. Baseball has a lot of nuance as far as fitting complementary puzzle pieces for roster construction.
Giants run their organization properly and you want them to run it like a imbecile fan like the padres are ran lol
@iverbure I wouldn’t say ‘properly’, per say
Get a hobby? Isn’t being a baseball fan a hobby?
GMoney, unless you were an NY Giant fan, you only saw your team win 3 of those 8 championships.
@fred-3
I was thinking the same. It felt like all the Yankees fans in 2009 or the threepeat years before then, yelling “27!”. Yeah, they were there for all those years.
You’re so cool…
Does that mean you yourself need permission to speak to Yankees fans, GMoney2850?
Oh, let’s not get too serious over this.
Can we please move on from the petty warring?
It’s funny how Giants fans are so high now. A decade ago, they were a half century away from any championship. I’m guessing it’ll be 40+ more years before they get another one.
I upvoted you a couple of times because this guy you’re talking with disgusts me as a Giants fan, but no more. stop replying to losers online lol.
if they dump the cancer that is farhan this offseason then maybe not. they have a few good pieces and a few up and coming guys. before farhan can ruin them all with; platoons and bulk inning assignments, and jerking back and forth from aaa to majors just to help pump up his “value signings”, while he trades all year on the margins, giving up promising young pieces for switch hitting catchers he uses for 3 games then dfas, while he tanks games to prove small sample babip points..
you get the point.
@Chipsss valid point
GMoney, I personally think it’s funny so thank you for the laugh. Don’t really get on here anymore but decided to check out some rumors about the Giants. I think M&B naturally assumed you live on MLBTR and that somehow makes you pathetic? We all live our lives differently so pay no mind to him. Do you man and leave the bitterness to the Padres fans lol.
The San Diego Padres. LOL!
Don’t let the Mets off the hook for “window shopping” free agents.
Agreed.
Although, even if Starling Marte on the IL and Avisail Garcia on a rehab assignment, I’d probably still trade Garcia for Marte, and take on Marte’s full financial obligation.
Mets would probably take you up on that. Marte has been horrible this season and has looked completely lost at times. Still two more years at $20 mil apiece.
@rct
Can we both be GMs for just 5 minutes to make this happen!
No take-backs either!
Funny thing is it mught work for both teams and players.
Avi is a true RF defensively and may feel more confortable in the Mets lineup.
Marte would go back to CF with the Marlins, and he would have young pieces spelling him when he goes down. Also, his game fits more with what the Marlins do offensively Marlins move Jazz back to the infield.
@MarlinsFanBase – I am as big a Metfan as there is, and believe me, you don’t want Marte playing CF. His defense, which was pretty good last year, as i recall, has really slipped this year and he is in the bottom 3% (or something like that) in Defensive ratings. He is no longer even an average CF and his hitting has fallen off of the charts this season. Double plays, no power, and he doesn’t look the same as the pre-surgery Marte. I hold out hope that he will bounce back and play more like last year, when he was excellent in all areas, but I wouldn’t trade for him, especially with all the $$ remaining on his contract.
When Starling Marte is healthy I want him on my team (which he isn’t), even at his age. Let’s not be too quick to write him off.
@bigmetfan
As crazy as it sounds, I still would take a Marte for Garcia trade for my Marlins.
Both of them have two years left on their deals, but obviously Marte’s is for significantly higher AAV. I’d still take it.
While Marte is getting beat up by Father Time, Avi Garcia is showing all the earmarks of a player that may have used PEDs for his contract years and got off of them in his other years. The Marlins gave him a 4-year deal, which looks like he’ll be complete garbage until the last year of that deal.
Also, while both look like lost money, both can be salvaged because Avi at least gives the Mets a legit RF. And Avi may feel mroe comfortable batting in a lineup with Alonso, Lindor and McNeil where he’ll have less pressure.
On the other hand, Marte would be in CF with some younger pieces supporting him when he goes down, and his overall coverage will be different playing between De La Cruz and Sanchez, who both are younger and more mobile than the guys roaming in the Mets OF. Additionally, Marte would have a different role with the Marlins, which play an offensive strategy that Marte’s game is more in line with. In the Mets, he’s expected to be a different type of player that he can no longer be at this point in his career as his physical strength dwindles.
I don’t think marte’s physical strength is dwindling. Remaining strong is much easier than remaining fast. That’s what he’s losing. He’s losing bat and foot speed. That’s tough to beat.
I think the Mets would probably entertain that offer to save some cash off a clunker.
Pay all of this year and even throw ten mill to next year. Get matos or whisenhunt and another top 15 prospect (of or sp depending on which of the first two they get).
Lol. You’ll get Mason Black and Grant McCray and like it.
Don’t be too quick to move Mason Black.
I agree Pete! Mason Black might be up with the big club soon. He would probably be better than many of our options now! Farhan needs to make some room, I’m hoping he trades one or two of the “bulk innings” guys
@agnes gooch I agree, Farhan has really made some mistakes, as far as running the team goes.
Mason Black definitely looks like he has potential. So does Grant McRae
Justin has been up and down really. Salary relief is all he’ll bring. Maybe a lesser prospect is included to seal the deal.
Good one. Reigning Cy Young winner. You’re giving up a package for Verlander.
You are kidding yourself. The Astros won The WS last yr in spite of Verlander, not because of him. At this point in his career, Verlander is good half the time and mediocre, injured or bad the other half. The Astros not wanting or willing to retain him is very telling. Salary relief and maybe a mid level prospect is all he’ll bring, but that would be worth it.
Yes, a package of mid-tier prospects. He’s 40, owed a ton, and not K’ing anyone cuz your 1980s analytics group can’t figure anything out. Give him to a real organization and be grateful with what we give you.
Not with that contract you are.
He’s paid market rate to say the least.
He’s not performing as expected.
How on earth does he have positive trade value???
@GMoney2850
It’s not even 1980s analytics. Even from my generation, we all know Father Time saying hello when we see it. I also agree with your assessment of the mid-tier prospects for Verlander. All humans…ALL HUMANS…get old over night. Doesn’t matter what they did last year of even one hour ago. It’s what you see Father Time doing to them at the moment. Clearly, Verlander has had dinner with Father Time since last year’s Cy Young season.
The aging curve hits strong once it starts to grab ahold of you after you reach 40. Unless you decide to take PEDs.
Idk, his stuff looks the same to me @marlinsfanbase. Still sitting 95. Slider looks sharp. Prob just needs some minor tweaks like he did when he went from DET to HOU
Verlander, as a 40 y/o, who won the Cy Young last year, has the possibility of being paid $95.7M from now through 2025, per his contract (if his ’25 contract vests after likely 140 IP in ’24).
Don’t you think NYM wants to get out from under that? If NYM wants to pay part/much of that for a better package, then sure, but SF is in the driver’s seat. That price tag will scare of almost every other bidder that you may as well float it out there to see if you can get a Cohen nibble.
What a player gets back depends on the excess value. That’s why rentals don’t return much. With Verlander, his salary takes away from his value. This years results, along with his pay, probably remove the need for a package.
@GMoney2850
That’s wishful thinking. A lot of guys look like their stuff is the same, but there are so many factors to playing the game that go beyond stuff. There is the body being able to consistently bring the stuff, located it, bring in the same quality every single inning and batter, and so on. With aging, those parts of the game become inconsistent and unpredicatble from inning to inning and batter to batter.
Father Time beats everyone at some point.
It’s not 2022, you’re trading for a meh Verlander on a bad contract.
> Don’t you think NYM wants to
> get out from under that?
If the big slice of cheese that ran the Mets was of sound mind and made smart business decisions, then yeah, he should want to. But he never should have OK’d some of the contracts that they offered up in the first place. I think a fix for that situation (unlikely) comes first and then you can try to run the team like a smart business.
I find it all very confusing because Cohen had to make some good money decisions along the way to amassing his fortune. However, his modus operandi for running the Mets appears to be to burn his money in any way possible.
He doesn’t. He’s owed so much money that he can’t possibly have positive trade value unless he’s pitching to cy numbers. Too big of a risk for just about every team in the league.
Where fans in baseball lack knowledge the most, is the financial restraints of most clubs and thus changing the value of a player to that club. You can argue all day and night until the cows come home that owners should spend more and blah blah go cry. I live in reality and just live with how they’re going to operate and try to think like a gm with those restrictions and resources. Take TB for example. Could they use Verlander. Of course. Basically every year they could probably use an older. More experience starter in the playoffs who could mentor the staff. What they can’t ever do is afford that guy beyond one year especially when he has a no trade clause. So right away they aren’t a suitor for any of those players that contain those clauses. Why fans can’t get over that I’ll never know. Maybe they don’t like that the rays have proven them wrong for 20 year’s operating too well and too successful.
We are probably talking eating 40 million dollars and getting nothing back.
Would the Mets truly want to do that?
I doubt it.
King of Cards — If Verlander is truly available (I saw a recent quote of his saying he wants to stay with the Mets) then I’d welcome him to the Giants staff. He’s so competitive, we’d watch him catch fire for the playoff run and give the Giants a real chance in the playoffs and WS.
Jordan Montgomery might be the more measured approach but he’ll cost more in prospects.
Of course you would welcome him. You don’t pay the bills.
Would you rather have Verlander or Ohtani next year?
Exactly
Stop thinking like a fan. Think like a GM. Evaluate players and your team beyond right now. Any imbecile can say Ohtani really good he’d probably help the my favourite team. Look at the cost, money and prospects, evaluate the team, are they positioned to win this year? Fans think the team should win every year. That’s the best way to never win. Dumb fans don’t get that. Took fans forever to figure out tanking and losing on purpose was actually good.
He has actually been pitching very well recently. And on the season has 4 starts with over 3 earner runs. Three of them cam against ATL, HOu, and TB which are some of best teams in the game and also the last 2 World Series winners. The other game was @ COL which many pitchers have had bad games at Mile High.
Now had he got beat up on by DET, OAK, CWS, etc. I’d say they re would b more reason for alarm.
the chances that farhan does that are zero. no matter the stipulations. Remember how he didn’t even offer Gausman a contract.
Fire farhan. start fresh and maybe have a shot at winning in the playoffs again this decade. the current team is smoke and mirrors and will be blow .500 after august
Justin Verlander is no Mickey Lolich. Verlander becomes a thrower in the big games.
> Verlander becomes
> a thrower in the big games.
Agreed. Verlander becomes a thrower of pumpkins in big games.
WORLD SERIES:
1-6 5.63 ERA 9 starts 48 IP 45 H 30 ER 10 HR 20 BB 50 K 1.354 WHIP
I’m spite of Verlander? He didn’t lose a single game in the playoffs.
>I’m spite of Verlander? He didn’t lose
> a single game in the playoffs.
The Houston Astros won in 2022 despite Verlander.
Verlander’s 2022 postseason:
2-0 5.85 ERA 4 starts 20 IP 23 H 13 ER 3 HR 8 BB 25 K 1.55 WHIP
Not good by any definition of the word.
You call yourself a Giants fan with statements like that Chipsssssss? What a terrible place to be in your mind, to live with such negativity. You get what you ask for in this world so ask for beauty, health, love and for your team to win not lose. I can’t wait for ownership to give Farhan a 10 year extension! If you like the way Preller operates, like a complete spaz, then go be a padres fan.
If you look at next years free agent pitching class, you’d see why the Mets aren’t going to trade Verlander. There is no one close to his caliber in the next class. There aren’t really many guys worth signing in the next class. The price for starting pitchers at this trade deadline, especially for teams that don’t have any pitching depth on the farm, like the Mets, will be high if you want someone from their staff. Verlander has a no trade clause, and he’s not going to waive it to go to SF.
But the fact that there isn’t much good free agent pitching coming up next year adds to his value to the Mets. SF would have to cough up something good, and then convince Verlander the move across country, when he just moves his family half way across the country 8 months ago would be worth it. It’s not happening.
There are better pitchers in next years free agent class? Urias, Ohtani and Yamamoto all have higher ceilings at this point in their careers.
Urias.. with his 5+ERA? You named 3 guys. Does Otahni even want to come here? Yamamoto hasn’t been posted yet. It’s not about those 3 guys. It’s about what plan B is if you can’t get one of those 3. And I don’t know why you think so highly of Urias. Injury prone, and high ERA, left eye surgery 10 times. He’s a huge risk.
.
Paying 40 year olds 40 million a year is a huge risk
I root for teams, not executives. I don’t give my loyalty to wealthy business people who only care about their own image. You make some funny assumptions about me. I’ll refrain from making any about you.
“Took fans forever to figure out tanking and losing on purpose was actually good.”
@iverbure: Just because tanking is effective, doesn`t also mean it is a good thing.
I think most fans know that tanking for better draft selections is a detestable way to build a sustainably competitive ball club.
You telling me that Verlander off a cy young season is a bigger risk than a guy with 10+ eye surgeries? I don’t see that.
Please don’t project your feelings on everyone else. I think most fans are happy to see their team win games and don’t really spend a lot of time thinking about how they got to that point. Keep in mind, the people on here are not, “most fans”.
Don’t blame the teams for tanking, blame the league for making that an attractive and viable strategy.
Nope. Not doing business with SF. Forget it.
That Ruf-Davis deal made little sense, first I would have thought NYM would have wanted Wilmer back, but then it was a 3 for 1? That said doesn’t SF deserve some kudo’s for unlocking JD Davis not only at the plate but in the field. He’s been fantastic defensively, like almost unrecognizably good.
SF rarely gets credit enough for revitalizing (or for that matter, vitalizing) a batter’s career that other teams have passed up. Wade Jr., Thairo Estrada, Yaz being prime examples.
No they don’t. You could throw in a pitcher or three as well. Not even from their own fans, despite the fact players constantly talk up what they do in that regard. So many baseball fans are locked into the existing superstar mindset. Nothing else matters to them.
Right on foppert!
Could this be Coach Jesse Foppert?
I get this a lot !
No. He just has a special little place in my baseball heart. He was the first young Giant I put some emotional investment into.
He was a beast I hear, I actually played under him for a year in high school. Such a cool guy
Ha ha. That’s awesome. The world is a small place these days.
He was a far from beastly looking baby faced kid when he came up. Threw hard though. He was quickly my favourite.
Exactly. I thought Wilmer would be coming back for that package considering he was a rental at the time.
They wanted Ruf to go against lefties, and Vogelbach for righties. JD Davis was not the player for the Mets that he is for the Giants, sad to say. They never would have traded him if they could get some offense out of him. Glad he’s doing better in SF. He’s a good guy.
The point was, the Mets were so inept they couldn’t fix JDD when he was right in front of them. That he immediately went on a tear with the Giants, is likely evidence that the Mets were distorting his approach at the plate.
How about because he went back home, where he grew up, and has family. You think that may have contributed?
JDD started hitting again the day he got to SFG. I’ll give the Giants credit for not screwing him up in the field, but wrt hitting that was Davis just getting away from the Mets and however they’re screwing up ballplayers these days.
Beltran for Wheeler was a good deal
No kidding! The ghost of Darin Ruf says,”DON’T TRADE WITH THE GIANTS!!”.
Hearing Giants send a package of Thomas Szapucki, Nick Zwack and Carson Seymour.
Throw in Kate Upton and it’s a deal. Actually, just send her, forget Justin, and it’s a deal.
Uncle Steve wants Whisenhunt.
Mason Black seems fair.
Still pissed Cubs didn’t get him in 2017 he wanted to come to Chicago and bring big jugs with him
No no no no no no no! Zaidi is too smart for this. Ownership may want his name to sell tickets but he is a huge no for me! Plus we owned him in the 2012 World Series!
Winn and Beck have looked good, I would rather see them and bring up Mason Black soon too. I was hoping to see Kyle Harrison this year but he might be out with an injury.
Beck is 27 and K’ing 6.5 per 9 in relief. Pretty sure they’ll gladly part with him, lol. Winn doesn’t even try to throw a third pitch. Doubt anyone wants either of those guys
GMoney, I wasn’t saying Winn or Beck are Cy Young, I just said I’d rather see them play for us than pay Verlander or give up Black, Harrison or Whisenhunt who I’d rather see with us next year.
I’m with you, Agnes. I want to see the best of the young potential continue to develop in orange and black. At a minimum, it’s going to be an interesting week !
Totally spot on as usual foppert!
foppert1 & agnes gooch — You two always answer for me, so thanks (as usual).
GMoney, or whoever your acerbic self used to be, Agnes wasn’t talking about trading them. She’s saying she likes having them and is fine with the Giants going with them. And your nasty responses to others don’t do us real Giants favors. My guess is you once were a Farhan super critic, wanted to or did bolt the bandwagon and have crawled back on it. So do us legit fans a favor and take a bus.
Good work, Claude. Gmoney is making me cringe.
Thank you Claude!
Harrison can’t throw strikes and behind Webb and Cobb we have garbage and the bullpen. The Giants need at least one proven starter and Verlander could be a huge push in the right direction for a playoff run. We just got owned by the Nats dude. We need wins and wins come from the mound.
Dan Uggla, what is our record in the last 10? The sky isn’t falling. We were actually doing better with the opener games/bulk innings than we are with the traditional starter. The real problem now is the hitting has gone cold, too many injuries and slumps. We need a hot Yaz, Conforto, JD, Thairo, Hanny, etc. That’s a lot of power missing.
The giants aren’t going to win 7 of 10 all the time. Davis is already having issues offensively Schmitt still barely walks swings at Baez quality sliders down and away Wade’s back and hamstring are holding his production up especially defensively Flores isn’t gonna have a .800+ OPS Conforto is cold Wood gives up five in three every other week I mean should I continue?
Stripling, Manaea, and Desclafani are all toast. If Winn can demonstrate he’s a regular starter then maybe we have something but without plus production from he and Beck we need more pitching period. The Pen is gonna be spent when we need them the most. We’ve seen it before.
Dan Ugggghhh! If you are a doomer, this is your view!
He’s not wrong.
I wish I was, believe me. 10-1 last night by the way because god forbid we don’t win every single Webb start the rest of the year
You’re laying out all the problems without being mean and they still look down on you. Delusion giants fans are the absolute worst. Rather have bad players on their team with fun stories or nicknames instead of win in the playoffs. The results on the field are starting to mirror the true talent level of the team. They played over their heads for months on the back of great hit sequencing and a stellar back end bullpen. Those two things can’t hold up with an extremely weak rotation and a lineup of little power high strikeout guys who can’t even be trusted to play every day.
Yeah, that’ll happen. Let’s trade one of our key starters to one of the teams we need to pass for a wild card berth. Forget it. You want Verlader? Give us back J.D. Davis! LOL!!!!
Um…FYI…Mets are several days from selling…if anyone is dumb enough to give them anything for any of their overpriced dinosaurs.
@MFB
The marlins will be buying in a few days after watching the rox complete their 3rd straight sweep of the formerly over performing Miami club. Bad timing for you here….
NY & Miami both have a fork in them.
Marlins have a fork in them.
Yep, Marlins are done. It was a nice run though.
Let’s see where we go from here.
As for pieces to sell, I’m hoping that Garrett Cooper stays healthy through the deadline so we can move him (finally). Also, look into moving otehr pieces that don’t have a future with us.
Always better to a trade player a year to early than a year to late.
Fans don’t understand this. That’s why they’re constantly baffled at what the rays do. According to the fans the rays have lost every trade they’ve ever made sans the Archer one.
You’re right, dumb fans not understanding the genius of the ring-less Rays.
Look I get what you’re saying, the rays are well run for their limitations but they are unlikely to ever win a single championship let alone multiple rings over a decade because they can’t spend the money needed to get the best players locked up. That is what they are. Other teams (the giants included most of all) are so wealthy it should make us fans sick. They don’t need to nickel and dime with bulk inning relievers and platoon 1 WAR bats, but they are. And they know the majority of fans get tricked, somehow. I don’t get it, but that’s where we are.
Farhan got left at the alter by Judge now he wants to bail the Mets out of that awful contract.
Or he gets Cohen to pay for plenty of that awful contract. You seem to have an issue with premature ejaculation, amk. How’s our awful farm doing this year ?
You know fopp, I feel it’s time for a 100 game (almost) assessment. Yankees are 3 games out of AL wild card and 4 over .500. Judge still hurt and Yankee fans wish Rodon was. Over 7 era and throwing kisses to the fans. CaptainJudge99 and 27champyankees? Feel free to give us more lame comments about SF. And Correa is less than league average in being league average. I haven’t seen the criticisms of Kaplers bullpen management but I would like to point out that Bochys Rangers bullpen is 25th or so in MLB. Yes, we loved Bochy and still do, but this is proof that Bochy managed the core 4 relievers for SF because they were already established and easy to plug and pitch. He didn’t establish them, they kinda established him as the great bullpen manager he gets so much credit for. Now, he’s finding that he can’t be a miracle bullpen worker without the bullpen playing their part. Kapler–2021 bullpen best in baseball, 2022 bullpen horrible, 2023 bullpen great again. My point is Bochy and Kapler are only good bullpen managers if pitchers meet expectations. So, the Kapler bullpen criticism that was so prevalent here in early season was unwarranted just as much as a Bochy bullpen management criticism is unwarranted now. If Kapler had the Rsnger bullpen they’d still stink and if Bochy had the SF bullpen they’d still be excellent. Padres management has done a great job building that team but if the players aren’t meeting expectations it doesn’t matter. And Mets over spent and over expected. The Senga sign was great and Nimmo has been great but I think many of us expected Scherzer Verlander $$$ to be mistakes.
Anyway, I’m kinda rambling now but with about 60 games left, a lot can happen. Just ask the 2020 Dodgers. I expect the Padres to make a run. I expect SF to pick up a middle infielder and an arm but like you and Agnes, I don’t want to give up too much. With Angels sweeping Yankees, poor Yanks, they would would probably not trade Ohtani but could trade him to a team for current MLB players and MLB ready prospects. Otherwise Angels fans would go goofy. That would kinda leave the Giants out I’d expect…which is nice.
Good read, Claude. Texas isn’t on my radar so I learnt stuff. Like any Giants fan, I’m happy Bochy has come back with some success. I also appreciate the work Kapler and the coaches put into their moves. They don’t guess. They don’t rely on emotion. They aren’t afraid of outside the box. The players seem to respect them. I’m real good with that.
The Judge and Rodon situations are amusing to say the least. Despite the injury, I’d still rather Judge be on our IL. Rodon was never a long term Giant. Kapler diplomatically voiced concerns early on in his Giants tenure about the lack of mental discipline and resulting lack of emotional control. It didn’t get better. He got paid. That’s what he wanted. I hope he is enjoying the “invested” environment over there.
I’m hopeful, but worried about the run home. This week, my analytics Giants podcaster put the fear of God into me about the unsustainability of the clutch hitting we have enjoyed so far. That, and the way the last couple of games have gone has me on edge. Hoping Zaidi comes up with a well balanced move or two. Whatever happens, I think we have a good platform for next year.
claude raymond — Agreed. This is not the time for the Gianas to trade a slew of prospects for Ohtani (the rental). Go after him when he’s a free agent. The same can be said (to a lesser degree) about acquiring Verlander. Mets are gonna have to pay down some of that contract (possibly next years?) but SF has the money and Verlander is a unicorn (even if he’s an older one). I’m not giving the Mets a Harrison, Luciano or Whisenhunt, but I could see one or two further down the prospect list being worthwhile for THE RUN and next year.
Have you looked at Matos and Schmitt’s numbers recently? What is so impressive about your rookies. Bailey’s BABIP luck is regressing and his OPS+ is already down to average. Although his defense is good I will give you.
Yes I have. Better than that. I watch them every day. Do you ?
The fact they have led us to a very solid record while learning on the run. The potential for improvement and success the system has had in preparing them is obvious. Not a small sample either. I think it was 8 making their debut at last count. You could argue against Schmidt, but they all look like they very much belong. Not an over awed rookie in sight. Your ultra negative assessment on the Giants farm preparation system was wrong.
It’s wrong because 1/3 top prospects they called up have performed? Lmao. Giants have a respectable record but the team is streaky and way too platoon oriented
Ok. You keep on being a box score based Giants rookie expert. Time will tell. We’ll touch base at seasons end and review the situation.
Yes, you generally judge a player based on their stats. That’s how this all works
I’m thinking poise and the context available by watching is pretty important when judging a rookie’s potential impact. The fact that teams still send scouts to games despite the plethora of data available to them has me thinking that as well. But that’s ok. I’ll stick to watching and listening to Giants insiders. You stick to your stats and we will see what happens as time progresses.
amk1920 — I probably watch 135 Giant games a year. You have too quick a trigger finger when it comes to rookies. No one is more disappointed by Scmitt’s penchant for chasing than Giants fans, but he—like Bailey, Matos, and Sabol are only going to improve with time. I’ll be happy to see Schmitt as next years everyday shortstop.
Beck and Winn have also been impressive. You can’t leave them out. I think they might even have good stats !
Giants insiders won’t give you the hard truths. They’ll tell you it was perfectly fine to draft Will Bednar, Matt Mikulski, Hunter Bishop, Joey Bart with high picks.
Actually, the ones I listen too don’t do that. It’s why I listen to them.
Which ones do you listen too ?
Let me guess…..you don’t listen to any. You just know everything.
I’m sure everyone is interested in him. Now, his 43.3 million salary, on the other hand…
The best deal the Mets would ever get would be Javier Báez & Eduardo Rodriguez for Verlander & Scherzer even up.
Even Harris would laugh at my proposal & require the Mets pay half of both salaries before that trade would be finalized.
IDK…I’d be willing to give Avisail Garcia, Johnny Cueto and Jean Segura for Verlander.
It’s really sad that as bad as he’s been he’d be the third best pitcher on the Giants
Verlander has a 3.47 ERA. That’s bad???
That is pretty bad for a 43.3 million salary, yes.
If the Mets want to trade off Verlander, they either have to pay off 3/4s of his remaining salary or package him with prospects. He is a net negative. Even if he was a CY YOUNG contender, he’d still be a negative. There is a reason why no one even came close into offering him 80 mil
Watch the Mets trade Verlander straight up for JD Davis. 😉
And pay half of Verlander’s salary.
JD Davis going nowhere. His glove and arm, alone, are a reason he stays put. He’s close to Gold Glove.
As a Mets fan, I’d love that
Jd is the very definition of average. Again… smoke and mirrors for Giants fans more interested in narrative than sustainable success. JD is an amazing defensive player, but his bat has been very very bad outside of a short period when he was on fire. It all ends up looking like an average mlb player. Which is fine, but not when your whole team is made up of them. It’s like Thairo. I like Thairo a lot! He’s much more valuable than JD in my opinion, and every team should want a guy like that. But he can’t be your best player. That’s insane. And giants fans acting as if the team’s offense is bottom of the league because thairo and the oft injured (and quite bad pre-injury) Haniger are hurt are just setting themselves up for confusion when the team misses the playoffs.
Again… I don’t understand why people would rather live in delusion to the point of smugly talking down on anyone who doesn’t join in on their delusion. And I should refrain from the personal attacks, what can I say I was drunk last night. Watching that giants game will do that to you. So I apologize for saying anything bad about other posters on this site. However, anyone thinking I’m dumb or that I don’t watch the giants or understand finance info, prospects etc simply because I don’t fall in love with replacement level pitchers and journeymen infielders is …I don’t know. You all are like the delusion people on politics too. Rather be lied to than open your eyes.
Rant over. I’ve got the end of another sad giants loss to watch.
Hate this. Giolito instead please
SFBay314, so do i. This seldom gets mentioned but SF is about $11million under the tax threshold and they absolutely do not want to be over this year. So ANY trade for a high salaried player is not in their plans unless 1. the trading team agrees to pay some of the salary and 2. SF trades a player(s) with high salaries (e.g. Pederson). It’s been documented that SF plans to spend big next season and might not be worried about exceeding the tax threshold then. Plus Crawford and Pederson will be off the books and possibly Conforto. Unfortunately Stripling and Manaea will likely opt in (SF likely expected they’d opt out, like Rodon, but their bad seasons have changed that expectation). This is why I feel they plan to outbid everyone for Ohtani I’m free agency. BTW, SFBay314, were you born in Pi day? Just curious about ur username
Agreed on lux tax. No pi. It’s the section of my season tickets for giants
SF is rumored to spend big every year but never do.
Please not another ancient pitcher
I think it’s a great move for the Giants and they shouldn’t be too precious about the prospects to get this done. Maybe it’ll even show Ohtani that the wallet is open a the FO is trying to win now. For the Mets, I’d demand more pitching in return than the Giants would realistically want to give up. In theory it could help both teams but I have a hard time imagining it getting done.
Why would Mets trade their two year contracts ?
Because it was bad when they signed it and worse now
can’t see the mets selling. they’re one winning streak away from being in the thick of it come september and have so much money they can get deadline help without damaging the farm system
Dasit: I’ll be your favorite Engelbert Humperdink song is “I Believe in Miracles.” 😉
@dasit It’s not a bad idea at all. Making a run and failing with something like an 82-80 record probably leaves a better taste than dumping talent for marginal prospects and ending up 72-90.
The real question is, can they add a significant prospect(s) for what they have to offer in trade?
And another problem is, if they eat a ton of salary, say most of Verlander and Scherzer’s salaries for 2024-25, even Cohen won’t have much appetite for replacing them with strong FA starters at another $25m each, or around $90m total once you add in more LT penalties. So is he willing to punt the next couple of years, especially since the Mets farm is in fairly pitiful shape, when the alternative is to push payroll over $400m in 2024, and over $500m when you add in penalties?
Whatever package the Giants send, please oh please let it include Joey Bart. I’ll sleep better at night.
Getting rid of J.V by the Mets would be idiotic, unless they go total rebuild. He should still win close to 14 games this year, and he’ll pitch the next two easy. It would be a great pick up for the Giants if they do get him. The Mets need to get rid of the G.M who brought Rendon to the Angels, that would be the best choice for the Mets.
Pitcher wins don’t tell you much…
If the mets trade him, I don’t understand how that means they need to go full rebuild. You do understand that free agency happens every year, right? They can use any money they save to sign someone that’s not 100.
Yes but dealing off Verlander leaves them with only three starters heading into next season, and no legitimate depth behind those three.
Scherzer is clearly not Scherzer anymore. And Senga generally pitches well on long rest, and spotty or bad on normal r(for US) rest. So they’d need to sign at least 3 legitimate starters and one of those would need to be an ace.
Thats a lot considering all of the other holes that also have to be filled.
Cohen might be smart to forbid Eppler from trading anyone. Jettison him in favor of David Stearns two seconds after the last out in the world series and let Dave make the trades.
You know what poster I wish would pop his head up? MetsFan22. He was so damn obnoxious about the Mets before this season I can’t imagine he will.
Another fair weather fan, perhaps. But his dogged insistence that the Mets are the cat’s ass was amusing.
Some of the Giants “interest” may be just to bait the Dodgers into over paying for either Verlander or Scherzer
Dodgers are too experienced and professional to be concerned.
It appears they’ve started kicking it in the past week or so. They’re a money team and the final stretch has begun. Expect them do do even better in August and September.
The Dodgers don’t need any additions. Just see how they blew out one of the too teams in the AL yesterday (Texas). They have just been underperformed this year, with Buehler out and Kershaw playing on and off.
Why Verlander? Typical Zaidi. He’s no more than a “band aid fix” that offers no long term solution. Zaidi needs to focus on starting pitchers like Cease, Bieber, Giolito, Rodriguez, Keller, Montgomery, Flaherty, Gilbert. And definitely not Stroman!
Giolito is a rental. Bieber is injured. Pirates will not trade Keller. Dylan Cease is good but really only has had one great season. Flaherty is done.. Mariners tell you go away if you ask for Gilbert. Rodriguez is a #3 having the best season of his career. Montgomery is the only suggestion that the Giants would find interesting. As is Verlander.
Justin’s long lost brother, Shane, is injured.
Says verlander doesn’t offer long term solution proceeds to list 3/4 rentals and 3 guys their teams wouldn’t ever give up until their rentals. Man some people think they know what they’re talking about and have zero idea.
Giants are interested but this knucklehead tells us why they aren’t. 1.74 ERA in recent starts is why.
You’re giving Redwolves flak, he’ll rip your lungs out Mac.
Huh! I’d like to meet his tailor!
I’d like to meet James Taylor
But his hair is …perfect
Ahhh-oooo!
1.74 ERA in recent starts is why.
==================================
But with a 3.39 FIP and a 26/13 K/W in 31 IPs.
@JoeBrady Yup. Notable good luck on balls in play, by his own career standard.
Still, if you’re the Giants you wouldn’t mind having a rested Verlander (if you can manage that) as your #3 or #4 starter in a 3-4 round postseason.
Who’s untouchable on the Giants during this year’s trade deadline?
Which players does Farhan hang up the phone for?
CV, don’t you think it matters who the trade is for and the ask? I mean Harrison is probably a good answer to your posit but if Angels were trading Ohtani and Trout together, FZ likely says “Harrison? Hell yes”. Probably not a great example but you get my idea I think. In general, I’ll say Harrison, Luciano and one of Whisenhunt or Black. Sounds too restrictive maybe? Expendables should be Ramos, Bart, Fitzgerald, Matos, Hjelle, Mecklenburg, etc. There are several that teams might want. What do you say CV?
Meckler not Mecklenburg
Matos ? You are killing me, Claude.
21 going on 31. Cool as. Reportedly a good learner. Athletic. Confident body language without being arrogant. Holding his own in his first crack at it. Please no. Got to be a keeper.
I think I said Matos as a player that might keep buyer from seeking more indispensable player. “we can get matos? forget luciano” Hell, I don’t know, maybe I should stop sniffing glue. Matos’ defense is Mays like. So it would have to be to get Ohtani.
Giants always patching together a team of AAA guys rabid veterans.
Let’s hope The Giants don’t sign Goldmember.
Signing Verlander would probably take the Giants out of the running for Ohtani.
Why? Should depend entirely on the money the Mets are picking up, and how that affects the Giants in the next couple of seasons. I doubt a slight increase in payroll in advance of 2024 will affect whether they push for Shohei.
SF needs to get verlander LA gives the farm for Ohtani. The Ohtani joins SF next year… Ohtani, verlander, Webb with out giving up nothing but $$$$$
SF needs to get verlander LA gives the farm for Ohtani. The Ohtani joins SF next year… Ohtani, verlander, Webb with out giving up nothing but $$$$$$$
Apparently Steve Cohen considers upward of $50 million and a competitive balance draft pick fair value for maybe 3 or 4 prospects. Other GMs should take note.
Acquiring a 40-year old Verlander is a bad idea. I really hope that Zaidi does NOT do it. We already have a thin farm system and this would just make it that much more depleted. Every team has a “win now” attitude but the Giants are not a free agent short of being contenders so why waste the money and/or the farm. Next offseason will be HUGE for the Giants if we can just be patient.
I’d liken them to the RS. I wouldn’t mind giving up a non-premium prospect for a #3/good #4 type, but I would in no way mortgage the farm just to have a 50% chance of getting the last slot in the playoffs.
Dog days are gonna be wild in the west…
“…and it looks like the club will be sellers in some respect at the deadline.”
—The Mets would be foolish to half-arse the deadline. If they’re getting out, they should get all the way out. 2024-2025 is likely to be bad, and hanging onto the 40 year old Verlander and to Quintana and even Alonso while dealing only, say, Pham and Canha just means they’ll be snagging some contender’s #19 and #25 prospects.
Meanwhile, if you subtract Senga, Alvarez, and Baty from the Mets’ farm system listing at fangraphs, they drop from having the #6 ranked system all the way down to #23. And that’s after three years of Cohen claiming he wanted to build a Dodger-style organization. That’s not working out for you, Steve. You need real help, not someone like Eppler to carry out your insistence on building the oldest 5-man rotation in baseball history and crafting a bullpen out of DFAs and twice-failed relievers from other organizations.
When you have to eat Flexen’s salary plus penalties in order to add the likes of Trevor Gott, you know you effed up. The Mets currently have all of three relievers with both an ERA and a FIP under 4.50. That’s catastrophically poor talent evaluation.
Couldn’t agree more Jack, if they can move Verlander and/or Max, and pretty much anyone not named Alvarez, do it. Too bad Eppler will be making those moves this week, though, he’s done a lousy job with them so far.
The days of “Wheeler for Beltran” are a thing of the past. The rental market in terms of prospect return, the intrinsic/analytical value of a prospect vs that of a 2 month rental,.. you’re not necessarily going to know names, Ohtani’s situation is in some degree the exception.
Similar to Rodon’s contact last year with the “opt-out” that is hard to value vs someone who is a pure rental, JV has a vesting option + a no trade clause to overcome in addition to health concerns. He lives in FLA so not only is SF west, so is their spring training.
That said if he wants to waive his NTC I’m all about adding JV or Max Scherzer. Those pitcher should look at how SF has handled Wood, Gausman, Rodon and others and feel like they’re in good hands. Not knocking NYM but that is an organization in transition and personally I’m not a Buck Showalter guy.
Kapler is interesting as I think there is a tremendous amount of “group-think” that happens there as part of their day to day preparation. As a result I think many of the in game choices are not done in the moment. Sort of like how 49ers script plays
In a week + rosters are essentially frozen from now until end of the WS, right now the Giants are short a middle infielder, seriously why isn’t Paul DeJong a Giants yet? And a front rotation arm. Their bullpen is good and about to get better with Brebbia and Jackson due back soon. Defensive & pitching win in October, always has, always will. The Giants don’t have enough right now, but do have the $ and farm depth to get to October.
Is this a joke?
Dear Giants, we’ll give you Verlander for a pound of unripened bananas and JD Davis back. Thank you.