The Braves announced the acquisition of reliever Aaron Bummer from the White Sox for a five-player package. Chicago acquires starters Michael Soroka and Jared Shuster, middle infielders Nicky Lopez and Braden Shewmake and minor league righty Riley Gowens. All but Gowens occupy spots on their teams’ 40-man rosters.
Bummer, a 30-year-old southpaw, had spent his entire career with the ChiSox. He developed from an unheralded 19th-round selection into one of the game’s more quietly excellent setup men. Bummer broke through in 2019, when he turned in a 2.13 ERA over 67 2/3 innings on the back of an eye-popping 72.1% grounder percentage.
The following February, Chicago signed Bummer to a long-term extension. Various injuries impacted him between 2020-22, as he spent time on the shelf with biceps and lat issues in his throwing arm and a right knee strain. Bummer remained effective when healthy, turning in a 2.92 ERA over that stretch.
That strong run prevention mark collapsed this past season. Bummer was tagged for nearly seven earned runs per nine over 58 1/3 innings. Among pitchers with 50+ frames, only 12 had a higher ERA than his 6.79 mark. While that’ll make this a head-scratching move for many Atlanta fans, it’s clear the front office is placing a lot more stock in Bummer’s promising underlying indicators.
Bummer struck out an above-average 29.2% of batters faced this year. He has fanned just under 27% of opponents over the course of his career. He averaged 94.5 MPH on his sinker (a solid mark for a left-hander) and missed bats against hitters of either handedness. While he’s no longer posting ground-ball numbers reminiscent of peak Zach Britton, he kept the ball on the ground at a lofty 58.2% clip. That’s the 10th-highest rate among relievers who logged at least 50 innings.
Certainly, Bummer isn’t a flawless pitcher. While he tends to keep the ball down, he gives up a fair amount of hard contact. He has well below-average control and walked over 13% of opposing hitters this past season. While an elevated batting average on balls in play was a big reason for his disappointing ’23 campaign, he didn’t do himself many favors by handing out so many free passes.
The Braves clearly feel Bummer’s results will more closely match those he managed before this year. He joins A.J. Minter and Tyler Matzek as potential high-leverage options from the left side. Pierce Johnson and Joe Jiménez are mid-late inning righties to help bridge the gap to closer Raisel Iglesias.
If Bummer returns to form, he could be a longer-term bullpen piece. He’ll make $5.5MM next season in the final guaranteed year of the aforementioned extension. He is guaranteed a $1.25MM buyout on a $7.25MM club option for 2025, while the deal also contains a $7.5MM team option (with a $1.25MM buyout) for the ’26 season.
It’s a consolidation trade for a win-now Atlanta team that can afford to target specific players it considers finishing touches to a championship-caliber roster. The White Sox are in the opposite position. Fresh off a 101-loss season, first-year general manager Chris Getz has set out to add depth to a team that has become far too top-heavy.
Trading a reliever for five players — four of whom are MLB options — is one way of doing so. While none of the four big leaguers is near the peak of their trade value, it’s easy to envision any of them playing a role on the 2024 White Sox from day one.
Soroka may be the most recognizable name. A former first-round pick and top prospect, he earned an All-Star nod and runner-up finish in NL Rookie of the Year balloting in 2019. Soroka had pitched to a 2.68 ERA over 29 starts in his age-21 season. He looked like one of the sport’s brightest young pitching talents before his career was sidetracked by horrible injury luck.
The right-hander sustained successive tears of his right Achilles tendon nine months apart in 2020 and ’21. The injuries cost him almost two full seasons. While he returned to the mound in 2023, he struggled to a 6.40 ERA over seven big league outings. Soroka had quite a bit more success in Triple-A. Over 17 starts with their top affiliate in Gwinnett, he pitched to a 3.41 ERA with an above-average 25.9% strikeout rate. Forearm inflammation ended his season in September but is not expected to require surgery.
Soroka accrued MLB service time throughout his injury rehab. As a result, he has over five years of service and will be a free agent next winter. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects him for a $3MM salary in his final season of arbitration. That made him a non-tender candidate for Atlanta, particularly since he can no longer be optioned to the minors. The White Sox are apparently willing to commit something in that range to see if he can recapture mid-rotation or better form.
Chicago has almost nothing in the way of rotation locks beyond Dylan Cease. Soroka now seems likely to get that opportunity. He could be joined by Shuster, a former first-round pick out of Wake Forest. The left-hander secured an Opening Day rotation spot with Atlanta a season ago. He struggled in his first MLB look, allowing a 5.81 ERA with a well below-average 13% strikeout rate over 52 2/3 innings.
Shuster had similarly discouraging numbers in Gwinnett. He was tagged for a 5.01 ERA through 16 starts with the Stripers. He struck out only 17.9% of hitters in Triple-A while walking 12.6% of opponents. While there aren’t many positives in Shuster’s 2023 performance, he’s only a year removed from ranking as one of the top pitchers in the Atlanta system. He’d posted a 3.29 ERA with a strong 26.2% strikeout rate in the minors in 2022, drawing praise for a potential plus changeup along the way.
Still just 25, Shuster could battle for a spot at the back of the Chicago rotation in Spring Training. He still has two option years remaining and has less than one year of MLB service. The Sox will hope he can put his tough debut behind him and reach the back-of-the-rotation projection of many prospect evaluators.
In some ways, Shewmake is a position player analogue of Shuster’s. He’s also a former first-round college draftee who’d generated some fanfare in Atlanta as recently as last spring. The Texas A&M product had a big Spring Training that led to some speculation he could open the season as the Braves’ starting shortstop. Atlanta rolled with veteran Orlando Arcia instead, a move that turned out well.
Not only did Arcia put together an All-Star season, Shewmake had a rough year in the minors. He hit .234/.298/.407 over 526 plate appearances for Gwinnett. He connected on 16 homers but hit only .264 on balls in play, keeping his on-base percentage down.
Scouts have questioned how much offensive upside the lefty-hitting Shewmake brings to the table. He’s soon to turn 26 and has only played two MLB games. Yet he’s a plus runner who went 27 of 28 in stolen base attempts in Triple-A. Shewmake can play either middle infield spot and has a pair of minor league options.
Adding middle infield talent was a necessity for Getz and his staff. The Sox had almost nothing at second base, relying on Lenyn Sosa and Romy González there. After buying out Tim Anderson, they were even lighter at shortstop. Shewmake could battle for a job, while Lopez seems likely to step into an everyday role at one of those positions.
The Sox are plenty familiar with Lopez from his days with the Royals. The 28-year-old has received elite grades for his defense at both middle infield spots and in more limited time at third base. It’s an all-glove profile, as Lopez has bottom-of-the-scale power. He’s a .228/.297/.284 hitter in 742 plate appearances over the past two seasons.
Lopez has between four and five years of service and is projected for a $3.9MM arbitration salary. That felt like a luxury for an Atlanta team that relies on Matt Olson, Ozzie Albies, Arcia and Austin Riley almost every day. It’s a more palatable sum for a team that’ll use Lopez as a bottom-of-the-lineup regular — as the Sox now seem positioned to do.
Rounding out the return is Gowens, a 24-year-old righty who was selected in the ninth round of this past summer’s draft. He pitched to a 6.30 ERA but struck out almost 28% of opponents over 12 starts during his junior year at Illinois. Baseball America praised the life on his fastball in his draft report, suggesting he could project as a reliever in pro ball.
It’s an unexpected trade made possible by the discrepancy in the organizations’ depth. Atlanta could afford to package some players who had fallen towards the back of the roster for a reliever with upside but legitimate question marks. Chicago buys low on a handful of players at positions of need, hoping that one or two can click and provide more value than they would have received out of Bummer.
Images courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Isaac Allen
Damn that’s a high price for Bummer.
Franco27
Except they all suck.
PattheBat
Yeah, none of these guys are any good. Bummer is.
Catuli Carl
He had a 6.8 ERA last season
filihok
CC
No one making these decisions cares about ERA. Neither should you
Unclemike1525
The Brewers just cleared all the crap off their roster. However if they expect Bummer to be a late inning guy he ain’t that. In big situations he gags and walks everybody in sight. The Sox need bodies anyway. This is a basic non trade.
roob
This is the best trade I’ve ever seen the Sox make.
I cringed every time Bummer came out of the pen the last 2 years. Even if it was certain that the Braves could miraculously turn him around he wouldn’t be worth half this much.
Unclemike1525
Oops I meant Braves, My bad.
richardc
*Soroka is still a project, but was once one of the best, young starters in all of baseball. He made some mechanical changes overhauling his delivery, and tried to become more of a FB guy rather than being the sinker type pf guy that made him so successful to begin with. He needs to get back to his strengths, and he could become a huge steal for the Sox.
*Lopez is one of the best defensive SS in baseball, and is a great UT backup
*Shuster is an inconsistent AAAA guy
*Shewmake is a SS/2B guy that’s decent at most things but not really good at anything other than defense.
*Riley Gowens is actually a very intriguing arm with some quality stuff. He had an excellent debut last season, albeit in a very small sample size. Still though, he has some great advanced numbers on his pitches, and I was excited the Braves drafted him.
The bright spots for the Sox are Lopez as a defensive wiz and spot starter almost anywhere, Soroka as a promising reclamation project, and Gowens as a strong starting pitching prospect.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Yeah giving up runs is not very relevant. Shame on you Carl
roob
He is horrible.
bhambrave
We knew what you meant.
roob
It’s amazing. I love Nicky Lopez.
Im hearing the Braves are also sending Acuna and Fried for Dylan Cease.
roob
Guarantee you that there isn’t any Sox fan that doesn’t have a huge smile right now.
roob
If you would have told me that the Sox back a hamburger for Bummer I would have been thrilled.
Aaron Sapoznik
Nicky Lopez will be the White Sox new Swiss Cheese Army Knife, a very versatile defender with big holes in his bat.
roob
The very best that bummer could become is a decent set up man. Which he has not been for years as any Sox fan will tell you.
I hope he becomes what the Braves want but this is an awesome deal for the Sox!
Aaron Sapoznik
I’d be more thrilled to have Jake Burger back. Apparently the Marlins weren’t biting on Bummer. Maybe Getz can trade Burger for an ice cold Oscar Colas, a tasty Peyton Pallette and Tanner Banks or a similar boatload of cash.
Catuli Carl
Effin comments in this app are so bugged
davidrocholl
Prediction: Nicky Lopez will play at least 140 games split between 2B/SS and bat .265/.340/.365 . The Sox will surprise people next year!!!
BaseballisLife
Bummer had a 2.36 ERA in 2022 and a 3.58 FIP in 2023 indicating his issues were on the fielders behind him and he is due a huge regression towards his 3.02 career ERA prior to 2023.
BaseballisLife
4 throwaways and one interesting minor league who is 24 and has never made it past low A.
For a guy that had a career 3 ERA prior to 2023 and who strikes out 12 per 9.
BaseballisLife
There are a huge amount of stupid people on the south side.
Paleobros
Weirdly, comments work better on the site than the app. At least in my experience.
Mrivers
Bummer might not be good now though.
deweybelongsinthehall
I don’t know the Braves’ depth but four probably would have been released. This allows them to protect three others they must like at least as much. Smart move on both sides.
YEP
That Swiss Cheese only played 25 games last year and had as many home runs as Tim Anderson.
stymeedone
None of those guys were any good, LAST YEAR.
First round picks have talent or they wouldn’t be first round picks. Good move by the White Sox. Bummer wasn’t going to keep them in front of KC.
stymeedone
Really?! No one cares about actual results? They will look at everything. Jose Urena kept getting opportunities because his peripherals show he throws hard and gets a.ton of grounded balls, He never gets results.though, so his opportunities are becoming rare. Don’t kid yourself that ERA is obsolete. FIP is a predictor of ERA, supposedly. If it was accurate, wouldn’t the year the Pitcher threw those numbers be more in line with the actual result?
Tdat1979
Getz knows a little something about second basemen that can’t hit.
fivepoundbass
Who are you quoting?
User 401527550
He was really bad last year.
CluHaywood
Filihok –
How about not being able to pitch in a dirty inning without giving up at least 1 run? How about his penchant for walking the 1st batter he sees nearly every time? You may not care about ERA being relevant, but he isn’t a good pitcher, especially a reliever if he is giving up basically a run every 2 of 3 outings.
UGA_Steve
Certainly makes some of the upcoming roster decisions for the Braves much easier. This is really just about the Braves clearing a glut of space from their 40-man, as none of these guys were likely to carve out significant roles this year. Even with a glut of decent talent going to Chicago, I like the move for the Braves simply because this is what contenders should do to get them over the top. Plus it clears two spots for some of the younger arms progressing through the system that look more ‘swing and miss’ types, which seem to be more valuable now that teams are going the ‘get me through the lineup twice at max-level then rest’.
Agree on your take on all of these players, though I would say Shuster really hasn’t been given enough MLB starts to call him AAAA. Through his current slate of 11 MLB games, his numbers basically match those of some guys like Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux. Glavine got better immediately with good second year numbers, but Smoltz and Maddux didn’t really improve until their third years. There re many other pitchers like that, I am just cherry-picking from the Braves because I know them better than other teams. Point being, Shuster could still end up a middle of the rotation guy or higher, though he is a couple of years older than the guys mentioned above. For his sake, I am glad, because I think he deserves a chance to be a regular in the rotation and not be trucked back and forth every week. It might make the Braves look bad, but I hope these guys play lights out for the Sox.
tedtheodorelogan
Yeah, pitchers who prevent runs from scoring are dumb. Spin rate is way more important.
User 401527550
Yes those fielders behind him that made him walk 5.6 per nine should have done better. His WHIP of an amazing 1.5 has been the same for two years.
richardc
No you’re definitely right about Shuster, it is still too early.
It was more or less just my personal opinion on him. I’ve never been very high on him, because with his lack of overpowering stuff, and lack of an above average fastball, he has to have excellent control and command of his fastball everytime out, or he got hit pretty hard.
When he’s spotting his fastball, he’s more than capable of being a quality back of the rotation type of starter, but he just seemed very erratic.
I certainly hope he’s able to make an adjustment or two, and that allows him to be more consistent. Who knows though? Maybe getting an extended look in the big leagues will help him become more consistent.
I just don’t think there was any real reason to keep him with Dodd and Winans aboard, who I’m both higher on than Shuster.
On the outside looking in, it looks like the Braves gave up quite a bit for a once quality LH reliever coming off a really bad season, but the Braves needed to clear out some space. Plus, they really needed another Lefty in their pen, so it’s a win-win.
I just didn’t like getting rid of Lopez, because now they’re going to have to go out and find another defensive minded UT player to replace him on top of their other current needs, especially since they traded Shewmake as well. Which, honestly, I’m not all that concerned with. He started to show some signs of life with his bag last season, but he was still more off than on.
marcfrombrooklyn
ERA is a rather than a projection stat. It could indicate bad luck or poor performance on balls in play. If opposing hitters are putting the balls in play with high velocities, barrel rates, and line drive rates, it’s likely the latter. Given his good strikeout and walk rates, that performance could be remedied by better pitch selection and results could improve (eg: cutter instead of slider, four seam instead of sinker, fewer fast balls and more soft stuff, etc.). If not, then perhaps the ERA reflects that he is bad at getting major leaguers out. Teams have much more analytical data that they use to evaluate these situations, some more than other.
Grantastic
Underrated comment!
Yoyosoxsox
Yeah ok have fun with bummer. U will learn to hate the name also
Move Comiskey
When I first saw that the Sox made a trade with the Braves I thought who did they give up for Charlie Morton. Then I saw the trade and I totally forgot that they don’t only trade for old former All-Stars. They go after former All-Stars that are usually hurt as well. I don’t know how I forgot that half of the philosophy.
Move Comiskey
Yes probably, but would that happen with the same garbage fielders again? Some positive regression is a virtual lock based on having players behind him who will likely avoid tripping over the wall and tangling themselves in the safety netting while chasing foul balls that have already landed.
Big Hurt
Aaron- huge difference is he can actually play strong defense at those positions, he’s not just versatile.
LSH99
I’m so glad I never have to hear another Sox fan talk about how he’s the “unluckiest pitcher in the league.”
Aaron Sapoznik
@ Big Hurt
Nicky Lopez is the anti-Christopher Morel, a versatile strong defender with a weak bat versus a weak defender with a powerful bat.
Morel does offer more upside with his athleticism and arm. With that profile he might improve his defense if given the chance to settle in at one position or grouping. His arm and bat could easily play at 3B, a position the Cubs are looking to upgrade this offseason. Allegedly, 2B is is “best” position which is not an option on the northside of Chicago but could be one on the southside. His profile might also fit CF, RF or as a team’s 4th outfielder. Morel also brings a positive clubhouse presence with enthusiasm that matches his athleticism.
Aaron Sapoznik
@LSHgg
Some of Bummer’s bad luck can actually be attributed to the White Sox below average infield defense, especially as a pitcher who induces a lot of ground balls. White Sox pitchers have also had to deal with first baseman posing as corner outfielders the past couple of seasons. Just saying…
Big Hurt
Aaron – if you think Morel is an option for the Sox at 3b, what do you expect them to do with Moncada? Would be tough to get anything in a trade, so are you thinking 2b again? Everyone raves about Moncada’s D at 3b being far superior to 2b, but the numbers don’t show him as very good at either position.
The Natural
Fantastic trade for the White Sox. Brighter days ahead on the South Side if this is an example of Getz’s guts and acumen.
Plenty of question marks, but massive upside.
Aaron Sapoznik
@Big Hurt
I stated that Christopher Morel was a 3B option for the Cubs and a 2B option for the White Sox. 🙂
The White Sox are pretty much stuck with Yoan Moncada at the hot corner. They are praying that his chronic back issues can be remedied enough for him to play a full season. He did finish 2023 very strongly, reminding all White Sox fans of his promising 2019 season.
The White Sox being “stuck” with Moncada at 3B played a big part in their decision to trade Jake Burger to the Marlins at last summer’s deadline. The front office also felt that Burger was blocked at his ideal positions, 1B by Andrew Vaughn and DH by Eloy Jimenez.
mrmackey
3.58 FIP. Walks a little high but otherwise not too bad.
filihok
Clu
Citations requested
I don’t believe it’s true that he isn’t able to pitch in a dirty inning without giving up at least one run
I don’t believe that it’s true that he walks the first batter nearly every time
Giving up a run every 2 outings would be a 4.50 ERA (assuming one run and one inning pitched). Giving up a run every 3 outings would be a 3.00 ERA (assuming one run and one inning pitched). So, something like an average amount of runs allowed.
Slow day at work
@Richardc we already have a replacement for Lopez in Squid (Andrew Velazquez), who we picked up from the Angels last year. He is a slightly better hitter with a lesser glove, but also cheaper.
richardc
We did pick up Velasquez last year, but I’m pretty sure he’s now a Minor League free agent and available to sign with any team he wants.
Slow day at work
You are 100% correct! I missed that bit of news
mrmackey
Better hitter? Velazquez? He can’t hit. 49 career OPS+ compared to Lopez’s 73.
Eovaldismemes
Mike Soroka and Nicky Lopez aren’t throwaways, what are you on
Pads Fans
With men on base the slashline against Bummer was .233/.342/.333/.675 I will take that all day long from my relievers. Especially when they strike out 12 per 9 IP.
Like Snell, go ahead and walk a guy that you don’t match up well against and strike out the next two. With the White Sux having the 2nd worst defense in baseball that might be a problem if you induce a groundball from the next batter, but on a good defensive team like the Braves its not a problem at all.
Pads Fans
ASaps, Only the A’s were worse on infield defense. Only the A’s were worse on defense period
GooseGoslinGuy
Where they are at after ’23, this is a very good trade, worth every risk that perhaps Bummer will return to form. Sox need bodies, and if they get even just a rejuvenated Soroka and contris from Lopez and Shewmake, they are the winners of the trade. Guess the Braves are so flush, they saw all those guys as deadwood..
GooseGoslinGuy
He’s 30 with bad pitch selection?
Pads Fans
They were going to be non-tendered. That = throwaways.
AL B DAMNED
Should have gotten Cease in this deal instead of Bummer, Bummer deal for Braves! Walks are not what you need from a reliever and he was around 5.5 BB/9, plus above 6.7 ERA! Not ideal stats for a pitcher that you give up 5 players for in trade value!
filihok
RE: ABravees
These takes are so bad
1) eRa
2) who cares how many players are traded? 5 players can be less valuable than one
jimrad
Moncada plays a lights out defense at third base.. As a White Sox fan I can attest to that.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Well Getz did ask for a hamburger. And he got Five Guys!
Dumpster Divin Theo
But Nickys from Naperville! I bet you didn’t know that. Now we just gotta get that other grindy Royal guy from the South suburbs. Ole watchamacallit
Dumpster Divin Theo
Imagining a sad trombone version of the Gillette commercial featuring a forlorn Aaron doing the walk of shame after walking a guy, giving up a line drive single and then a bloop that clears the bases. Instead of “Gillette- the best that man can be” the new tagline “Gillette- the best that Aaron can be: decent setup man”
filihok
DDT
Dumb take, of course
First, give up runs, not pitchers
Second, ERA measures what the team does, so it’s dumb to assign it to a pitcher
Dumpster Divin Theo
Nah No room at the inn for Burger with his 28th in league defense at the hot corner, unless youre all world elite bat like Raffy Devers or can find takers for 29th in league defense Vaughn. Don’t fault you on the dude crush tho- Jakeys good people.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Uh nah likely- but if that were to happen, geez they’d be throwing parades for him in Naperville. With his ++defense you’re talking real value there
CluHaywood
This trade had every single Reinsdorf box checked. A perennially injured, former top pick, a kid from the suburbs of Chicago, an average infielder with zero bat to ball ability and a local draft pick (bonus points if they were “just about to draft him” too) oooh and bonus points for the suburbs kid being a former Royal. Gotta keep your dog crap, inexpensive and inexperienced manager happy!
CluHaywood
It’s almost like they take that into account in his ERA…and it’s still terrible
Why take a look at how much he inflated other pitchers ERA by failing to prevent inherited runners from scoring.
CluHaywood
One begets the other. Walking everyone leads to high ERA. Just because you want to ignore a stat cause you don’t like it, doesn’t mean he is good.
If we just ignored Tim Anderson’s average, RBI, OBP and Homerun totals last year, he is great!
filihok
Clu
“Why take a look at how much he inflated other pitchers ERA by failing to prevent inherited runners from scoring.”
It’d be funny if it weren’t so pathetic
Talking up ERA while pointing out a huge flaw in it
You see the problem with ERA, what another pitcher does effects a pitcher’s ERA.
How is that a good stat?
filihok
Clu
“Walking everyone leads to high ERA.”
He doesn’t walk everyone. What are you talking about? He doesn’t walk 5 or 6 times as many as he walk.
“Just because you want to ignore a stat cause you don’t like it, doesn’t mean he is good”
Yay! You said something true! Congrats! It doesn’t mean anything. It has no bearing on the conversation. But, it’s not just outright false. Baby steps
Anyway. No. My ignoring a stat has nothing to do with how good a player is.
True fact
“If we just ignored Tim Anderson’s average, RBI, OBP and Homerun totals last year, he is great!”
Oh, I guess I spoke too soon.
What stats we look at, or ignore, have nothing to do with how good a player is
I thought you had comprehended that.
My fault for overestimating you.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Hey you know who else has an ERA of below 3 before 2023? Christy Mathewson and Pedro Martinez. Are they available?
Dumpster Divin Theo
There are a huge amount of stupid people in your maw’s basement. Ma! Meatloaf!
Dumpster Divin Theo
6.8 E.RA is good. Bummer is good.
filihok
DDT
You’re not a serious person
Muted
CluHaywood
Baseballislife:
The secret to hitting against Aaron Bummer is this; Take. His stuff is borderline unhittable…mostly because it ends up 3 feet past the right handed batters box. Watched him for 4 years. He doesn’t have command. Doubt he ever will. His movement is absurd, but that doesn’t matter against patient hitters. And when he is behind, his sinker is his primary pitch, which, yes at times, can be effective, but clearly not all the time.
Isaac Allen
I agree to an extent just not often you see a 1 for 5 trade. Braves gotta be clearing space for bigger moves. They got something cooking.
Pete'sView
Isaac Allen — That was my first thought.
roob
Nicky Lopez by himself is worth way more than Bummer ever could be. This is the biggest steal for the Sox.
Getz must have saved the life of the Braves owner. Lol
Travis’ Wood
Nicky Lopez worth more than Bummer lol good one. I’m not sure Nicky Lopez could hit a high school pitcher
filihok
RE rols
BTV has Lopez worth 5,1 million and Bummer worth 1 million
Travis’ Wood
That’s a crazy valuation. Especially for a contending team, high leverage relievers have WAY more value than backup infielders. What is Lopez gonna do for a good team in games that matter? I do like the Sox plugging him in to prop up their pitching staff but let’s not act like he can impact important games in any way. Bummer can.
JCPenny
Bummer did pitch in bad luck last year, and ATL has a way of making guys look good. But I really don’t see what this does for ATL. Chisox get flotsam and jetsam for something they really had no use for.
filihok
JCP
They get a good reliever for “flotsam and jetsam”
Why is that hard to understand what ATL gets out of it?
CluHaywood
He isn’t high leverage. He was worthless in high leverage. Everyone is so enamored with his potential and “stuff” you fail to see he doesn’t get results. He is crap. I’ve seen him pitch for 4 years. He is not good.
filihok
Clu
“Everyone is so enamored with his potential and “stuff” you fail to see he doesn’t get results. He is crap. I’ve seen him pitch for 4 years. He is not good.”
Yes. It’s hard to imagine why people trust things like data (and major league GM’s) and not some rando on the Internet saying “he is crap”.
You haven’t posted one comment on this article that should lead anyone to think that you have any idea what you’re talking about. To the contrary, all your comments come across as the middest of fans.
Atheletic Mariner’s Angel
Traded Soroka? It’s a Bummer.
roob
The Braves won’t miss any of these players but the Sox are much better now because of this deal. Much better still stinks but this is a steal for them.
Bummer has been truly horrible for years. I hope the Braves can figure out how to make him a decent reliever. It’s still an awesome deal for the Sox
BaseballisLife
roob, you don’t actually watch baseball do you?
Pads Fans
The White Sox get players that would not start on any good team and that makes them better? Is their goal to be competing with the A’s for worst team in baseball in 2024?
In 2022 Bummer had a 170 ERA+. That is exceptionally good. 70% better than the average reliever. So he hasn’t been “truly horrible for years”
He walks a large number of batters, but once they are on base the batters behind them have a .675 OPS, so that is really good.
Even last season he had a 3.58 FIP, so that points to the defense behind him being awful and it was. Only the A’s were worse on defense than the White Sox. Bummer induces nearly 60% ground balls, so the porous White Sox defense was not creating outs with men on base. Considering they were not only the 2nd worst defense overall, they were also turned 2nd lowest percentage of DP chances, that is another reason for the runs.
GooseGoslinGuy
If a rebounded Soroka is ALL they get out of that trade, it’s a good trade. But they might get some decent value out of a couple others, esp. the minor leaguer throw-in. Good job, Getz. Gotta start somewhere.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Oh like the fact they picked up a critter named Schwenke- the little ones will think the Sox picked up Chewbacca which should make Star Wars nights that much more fun
Pete'sView
Pads Fans — “The White Sox get players that would not start on any good team and that makes them better?”
In a word, yes.
Pete'sView
And Shuster?
JCPenny
Right…pretty much everyone in the deal sucks. Bummer indeed.
Degaz
Bummer isn’t cheap though. Guaranteed $8M next year including buyouts even if he sucks again
roob
Been following the Sox since 1969 and this is my very favorite trade in all that time. Even if they just got 5 okay players for the guy I hated most to see come out of the bullpen this is fantastic for the Sox.
BaseballisLife
You hated a guy that including 2023 has a .627 OPS against in high leverage situations .625 late and close, and .558 in the 9th inning?
Do you actually even watch any games? Cause if you do you must be hitting the bottle pretty heavy to miss how good he has been.
Travis’ Wood
LOL
Big Hurt
Bummer has ridiculous stuff, and when great, he reminds me of Zack Britton. High 90s with crazy movement and a big sweeper. But he gave up runs in 8 of his last 16 appearances, multiple runs 5 of those times, and walked WAY too many guys. I do think he will be much better with a good defense and a bit more luck, so he’ll add value, but I still think this is a positive first big move for Getz.
GooseGoslinGuy
You seem to enjoy asking people if they actually watch the games. Dude says he has been following Sox since 1969. He might actually have more experience watching Bummer in game situations than you.
Pads Fans
Goose, Does following the Sox mean watching the games? The stats are clear. Bummer was exceptionally good in the situations that person was mentioning elsewhere in this thread.
If you hate guys that are really good in high leverage situations I would have to question whether you watch games too.
BrianStrowman9
The idea is that the White Sox got young players for a guy with waning control coming off a down year.
The Braves needed to clear out roster and 40 man spots. It’s a good gamble on both sides here. ChiSox need bodies with any kind of potential. Their minor league system was horrible. Slightly less horrible after the sell off at the deadline
Pads Fans
The White Sox got guys about to be non-tendered and guys that have washed out so far for a guy that had a 3.58 FIP in 2023. Bummer’s ERA was high, but for an extreme GB pitcher, having the 2nd worst IF defense in baseball hurt him a lot.
The White Sox need warm bodies, but these guys are ice cold. Not one of them would make the Braves or the Padres or the Cubs or any half way decent team.
Dumpster Divin Theo
How bout breaking out numbers further, since that appears to be your jam. Tie game- OPS 1.008. Within 1 run, OPS .800. But don’t fret. He positively sparkles when the run deficit is > 4 runs: .480. And with the way the Braves pound teams into submission, he’ll be of great use in all those situations. Huzzah!
Dumpster Divin Theo
61 appearances, 14 where he blew up, giving up 2+ runs. 5 meltdowns where he gave up 3+ runs or got no one out. Not so bad for a high leverage reliever tho. Sorta like Russian roulette. Or Craig Kimbrel
Dumpster Divin Theo
Yeah don’t yuck another guys yum but asking if he actually watches any games. Pedantic stuff. Oh look at me, I can google up a baseball reference page so I’m superior to you.
Dumpster Divin Theo
But he wasn’t exceptionally good in high leverage situations. Some of us were there, in person, watching him melt down by not doing his job, getting out of situations in close games, ie high leverage. He has above average stuff, yes. Scouts have been saying that for years. But a 1.000 OPS in tie games and .800 OPS in 1 run games is not the kinda empirical evidence you’d like in a reliever set to make $18 mill/3 yrs
Dumpster Divin Theo
“These guys are ice cold and not one of them would make any half way (sp.) decent team.” Bra-vo. That’s the type of steely acumen and sharp cutting edge analysis visitors to MLBTR come to expect. Do you publish?
Kansas_City
Here in KC, we watched Lopez for years. You guys are vastly overrating him. He is a good fielder who can play any infield position, but he is a weak hitter who almost never makes hard contact. Pitchers overpower him. He can bunt, but so what. He is a good guy, but he could not be regularly in the line up for a contending team, unless the rest of the line up was the best in baseball.
Plus, he will make about $4 million in arbitration, unless the Sox get a discounted contract with him. I would not be surprised if the Sox non-tender him, seeking a reduced contract or seeing if they can trade him. If not successful, they would just let him go.
roob
The Sox are not a contending team. They’re a rebuilding team with no ML SS or 2B. I’m thrilled to have Lopez.
davidrocholl
4MM is a steal compared to what Tim Anderson would have cost them!!
solaris602
CWS can afford to muddle through a season of Lopez and Shewmake in the middle infield. Yesterday they had no one to play SS, and now they have 2 options without having to overpay a lackluster FA option for a year or two. In essence this gets Getz off the hook in terms of circling back to Anderson. That possibility is now all but dead.
In nurse follars
300 comments for what is essentially a very minor deal? Don’t understand that.
Idosteroids
Fans are hungry for action. WE WANT TRADES!!!!!!
GooseGoslinGuy
There are more Sox fans out there than you know, and a whole lot of Braves fans. ;o)
GOAT Closer Esteban Yan
I can see Bummer ending up like Diekman when he went to the Rays. He just needs a competent team and managers to get him back to form. This feels like a sneaky good move for the Braves.
vanswanson
All the players were going to be released….lol
Dumpster Divin Theo
The stoner has a point. Like that old Elvis chestnut: Love Me non Tender
Pete'sView
Dumpster Divin Theo – Not sure I agree but I like the way you expressed it.
LSH99
Is it, though? I’m no Bummer fan whatsoever, especially on a such a terrible Sox team where he’s useless, but the Braves were literally going to let Soroka and Lopez walk away. Shewmake and Shuster could very well be busts. Even if they’re, not, the Braves ultimately traded three prospects for what it probably going to be a dependable, low-cost lefty reliever in a championship window. That sounds about right.
bighiggy
Not low cost, dudes making almost 8mil with his buyout for 2025
Joeyg2033
The proper evaluation in any trade is who got the best player in the deal. Clearly Bummer is the best player. Atlanta clearly didn’t value Shu/Shew and Soroka prolly was going to be non-tendered…Good move by AA…
filihok
Jg
“The proper evaluation in any trade is who got the best player in the deal.”
LOL, no
The proper evaluation is to see how each team improved
Dumpster Divin Theo
Yeah the proper valuation is surplus value: the marginal utility of 60 innings of a mud leverage Bummer > loss of contributions of any all of the 5 for them. Goody on the Braves. The marginal utility of being able to plug 1 or 2 guys for 150-200 IP + 125 gms of +defense + 2 lottery tickets > .480 OPS pitcher when the lead is 4 runs or more. Goody on the White Sox. Potential win-win. Everyone happy?
amk1920
Do the Braves want Lance Lynn and Time Anderson next?
Braves Butt-Head
Only if we can turn back Time to before he did that Jackie interview and was still hitting .330
Appalachian_Outlaw
How badly did Sox fans want to be rid of Tim Anderson that they’re still trying to trade him AFTER he’s already gone?
Jaysfansince92
Lol. That made me laugh.
GooseGoslinGuy
LOL> Until he is signed, sealed and delivered elsewhere, Sox fans worry he might get re-signed.
aussiegiants53
My Twitter notifications have just gone bonkers. Braves must be clearing 40 man space…. Right? Ahhh right?
jdgoat
Yep. That’s a lot of 40 man manoeuvring. Something on the hot stove is boiling.
Kapler's Coconut Oil
Not boiling, just ridding themselves of non-tender candidates
richardc
This is how I view it, but I don’t understand including Lopez. They can probably get a UT/backup SS for cheaper, but not at the same quality as Lopez.
Including Gowens is also another head scratcher. He has very solid advanced metrics on his pitches, and looked like a steal in the draft.
BaseballisLife
Lopez was going to be non-tendered tomorrow. He was the Braves trash. He had zero value to them.
GooseGoslinGuy
Gowens might have been the piece that sealed it. Potential not yet spoiled.
manfraud
My exact thoughts too. Clear roster space and acquire a bounce back candidate. Although the Sox really did obtain a haul for a single reliever – I wonder if a player to be named later will be heading towards Atlanta
User 401527550
Clear the roster for bounce back candidates such as Soroka?
Ryan Barnes
That’s an overpay if I’ve ever seen it.
solaris602
HUGE overpay – I mean this is like the return the Mets got for Tom Seaver. Bummer didn’t have a remarkable season. Yes, sir, that’s a mighty high price for a non-closer.
Franco27
What??? Mostly garbage
richardc
Gowens isn’t garbage, Lopez is extremely useful for any contending team, and Soroka is a solid reclamation project with huge potential…
Not exactly garbage…
Travis’ Wood
Soroka does NOT have huge potential. 5th starter at best. Also only 1 year of control
BaseballisLife
Gowens is 24 and never got out of Low A. Soroka and Lopez were going to be non-tendered tomorrow. The other two are quad A players at best. They had no shot at making the Braves roster. They all has zero value to the Braves. The roster spots are infinitely more valuable.
stymeedone
That makes Soroka the #2 on the White Sox.
Rking
I’m glad Sox fans think they struck gold, but these guys have little to no value on a first division team. Sox are rebuilding and they can afford to throw these guys out there and see if they stick. AA did exactly what he should’ve done, consolidated assets, cleared 40 man spots and strengthened the bullpen.
Joeyg2033
You should work in the pr department for the Sox… I bet you’re great at shining shyt…
Slow day at work
@BaseballisLife Gowens never got out of Low A because he was just drafted this year! He is the only one that I think the Braves might regret trading
Pads Fans
Lopez was ON a contending team and they were about to non-tender him. Cut him loose for free. He was not useful.
Pads Fans
He was a 9th round draft pick that had a 6 ERA in college. Not sure the Braves are going to miss him.
But you are right that he is the only one of those 5 that they might miss at some point.
Braves83
The Braves have a very good chance of missing Soroka this year, and Lopez. Shewmake and Shuster a bit later perhaps. Soroka will have a very good year for the Royals, and Lopez will be great for them till they are ready to trade him (very much like Nick Anderson).
NashvilleJeff
@solaris: “HUGE overpay”? Something tells me you haven’t seen Jared Shuster pitch, you’re remembering the pre injury(s) Mike Soroka of 2018, and you’re falling for the “but Braden Shewmake was a 1st round pick” schtick. Braves just dumped 4 guys they were going to non tender and a 24 year old A ball relief pitcher for a bounce back lefty that’s at least going to fill the 6th or 7th spot in their pen. The Sox end of this reminds me of the returns the Braves used to get back in their late 1970’s and early 80’s trades —- A boatload of “just some guys that you’ve heard of” for something of probable value.
solaris602
I’m aware that most of those pieces sent to Chicago would have been non-tendered or firmly in AAA to start the season. I’m just saying Bummer is no lock for success next year. This is a huge faith move on the part of ATL.
GooseGoslinGuy
The Sox have to gamble given their situation, bringing bodies in to camp. If Soroka works out, or the Gowens guy, it’s a positive move. If they should find a frontline starter, losing a question mark like Bummer is a decent risk. He might rebound — he might not. Go Sox!
Dumpster Divin Theo
Ah the cocky optimism of Nashville Jeff reminds me of the carefree days of a cavalier Kenny Williams who would boldly spit in the eye of baseball gods as he dispensed with nobodies like Gio Gonzalez, Marcus Semien and Chris Bassitt for the “best name player” in the trade: ye olde Nick Swisher or Jeff Samardija ( he’s a gamer! He caught TD passes for the Fighting Irish). Good times!
cr4
Essentially a 40 man dump. Shuster is the only one with decent value. Hurts to say Soroka is most likely never going to be the same player and Shewmake was nothing special
Travis’ Wood
Agreed cr4, all these people just see the name Soroka and freak out like it’s 2018
Subatomicbunt
You mean S0ros not Soroka right?
Rking
Everyone loves Maple Maddux but he just isn’t the same guy after an unprecedented two Achilles ruptures. Wish him the best though and hope he comes back to something near what he once was.
Pads Fans
Yes, the White Sox did overpay for 4 guys that would not make the OD roster on any decent team, two of which were about to be non-tendered today if not traded, and a 24 year old prospect not on anyone’s lists.
Dumpster Divin Theo
How can you overpay for 5 guys when the cost is Aaron Bummer at $18 mill/3 years. That’s like saying you’re getting ripped off on the 5 piece Taco Bell combo meal for $5. Empty calories or not, it’s still $5.
Champ world champion Texas Rangers
Here we go!!! lights camera action.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Niiice. How’s the view from where you’re at? You should visit every unending inconsequential hot stove thread until March.
barrybonds1994
??? what the?
Giant Willy
Oh. Wow
mostlytoasty
that’s a haul
earmbrister
That’s a bummer
Subatomicbunt
5 players for 1 man? This guy must be truly special. I don’t know who he is but I am a fan now. Any player that good I am already sold! What HOF Pitcher does Aaron Bummer elicit most comparisons to??
sorengo99
Bill Hoffer
Subatomicbunt
Seriously high praise right there Sorengo!
unpaidobserver
Eckersley…but like…when he was an okay not great starter for Cleveland.
Subatomicbunt
Eck would have only commanded 4 other players with some cash. Shoot a tad higher..
Subatomicbunt
I am thinking 2002 Billy Wager…Even though he isn’t in the hall yet.
Travis’ Wood
Maybe now you can see that ERA doesn’t matter….
Subatomicbunt
I’ve never actually understood that as clearly as I do at this very moment haha
But if it doesn’t matter, why were the writers so hot on Snell for the CY?
unpaidobserver
Baseball writers are mostly over 70.
Baseball FO ppl mostly under 50.
Travis’ Wood
Haha wow fair enough, good on you. The writers are still years behind the teams it seems….. Makes sense since their jobs aren’t at stake. Teams dive deep to find the best pitchers. Writers just look at a few basic stats and call it a day. They finally stopped caring about wins and losses but they can’t get over ERA
GooseGoslinGuy
Good question. To baseball writers, ERA is EVERYTHING. If DeGrom posted a 8-16 W-L with a 1.66 WHIP but had a 2.03 ERA, they’d give him the CYA. I’m amazed Strider didn’t get it, the ace on the winningest team in baseball and SO leader. Snell? Meh.
roob
Except watching a guy regularly blow up the game because he’s so bad does.
User 401527550
What stat mattered the most, his 5.6 walks per nine or whip of over 1.5? Seems his era was exactly where it should have been and it did matter.
Travis’ Wood
Lol clueless take, maybe learn about FIP and xERA before commenting
Dumpster Divin Theo
He’s the new Andy Van Slyke
placido my polanco
Many fine people on both sides of this trade
BaseballisLife
Bummer is good. What the Braves traded away was their garbage. Non-tender candidates and guys that had no shot of making their roster.
Subatomicbunt
I’ll accept that.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Hey new avatar. Tricky
Dumpster Divin Theo
Except when Bummer blows up your 7th like a Kimbrel. Then maybe you wish you had said non tender candidates
Dorothy_Mantooth
What this tells me is that Atlanta is going to be active in the FA market, and possibly the Rule V draft as well. They also have a couple of interesting, lower level prospects who are eligible for the Rule V draft this year and now they have the space on the 40-man roster to protect them. I would guess they use 1 of these 3 spots to protect prospects from the Rule V draft and use the other 2 spots to acquire some new players.
I hate to see them give up on Soroka but they gave him plenty of chances to rebound and he could not.
Slow day at work
@Subatomicbunt I would compare Bummer to Randy Johnson. 2023 Randy Johnson
barrybonds1994
If this is the full trade, it feels like ATL was clearing 40 man space and they were already going to non-tender most of those players. Unclear why Shuster and Shewmake needed to be included. Kinda weird way to give up on your ’20 and ’21 first rounders.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
2019 and 2020, but they both pretty much suck.
amk1920
Carter Stewart didn’t sign. Langaliers isn’t good for a top 10 pick. Shewmake and Shuster now gone. Cusick gone too but he’s not good. Braves have been horrific round 1.
rundmc1981
Still early for Langeliers, but a career catcher is gold these days…and he was the get for Olson (not Pache). Considering what else they got in 2020, you should turn a blind eye. Waldrep should buck that trend.
Idosteroids
Agree the first round picks AA targets haven’t really panned out…..but the later round picks have been magnificent
SweetBabyRayKingsThickThighs
Sox get some back of rotation starters and bench bats for reliever too good for the team
jdgoat
A lot of spare parts going to Chicago but if they can get Soroka turned around what steal this deal will be for them.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Bummer can be useful if he learns not to walk every other batter.
labial
They can’t though.
Hey now
The braves weren’t going to tender a contract to their player. Soroka what a fall from his rookie year
richardc
Riley Gowens is the real prize for the Sox.
He’s a stud, and hate the Braves gave him up.
formegn hardgin
except there’s only one year of control
Idosteroids
That forearm inflammation is something to be nervous about. “Won’t require surgery”…but when that flares up again…could be go down for another full season?
Dumpster Divin Theo
It’s not like Ethan Katz has turned around hurt/reclamation projects before. Oh wait. Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez and Mike Clevinger say hi.
Braves Butt-Head
Clearing up 40 man space for several moves. Warren Buffett is gonna put the bucks down and make Steve Cohen look like a welfare recipient lol.
showmebb
Braves clearing salary and roster spots.
lucas0622
I don’t even think Bummer is bad, but 5 pieces? Seems like a lot
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Rare miss for AA. Michael Soroka is or at least was pretty good? Bummer isn’t a Bum but he might he compared to Soroka.
PattheBat
Soroka is awful
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Nevermind then.
rundmc1981
“Rare miss for AA”…is it ok to withhold more than an hour to determine a trade’s worth? Most of these guys (Soroka, esp) were going to be non-tendered, and AA just got a controllable southpaw with upside.
barrybonds1994
There’s gotta be at least one more player going to ATL or some $$ — very weird.
Aaron Sapoznik
The White Sox will be sending veteran southpaw SP Mike Sirotka (baseball-reference.com/players/s/sirotmi01.shtml) back to the Braves as the PTBNL as soon as they can locate him. Last I heard, Sirotka was attempting a comeback for the Broken Hill Boomerangs in Australia’s Outback Independent League.
aussiegiants53
Hahahaha! I had to laugh at that! Very good
Aaron Sapoznik
Thanks.
Btw: The 2023/2024 Outback Independent (oi) league season is underway as spring transitions to summer in the southern hemisphere.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
His coach is Liam Hendriks
rundmc1981
Non-tender deadline is tomorrow and more than likely some of these would be gone (Soroka, esp). Clearing room on 40-man and might also indicate what is to come. Shewmake didn’t have much of a future in ATL, thankfully, neither did Schuster, who looked like a horror of 1st Rd pick.
PattheBat
Teams don’t care about ERA, day 367774487
Travis’ Wood
As they shouldn’t. Countless better stats out there
Tacoshells
Holy moly. All that for a reliever with a negative 1.0 WAR last year? Is he that good?
Travis’ Wood
Who cares about reliever WAR especially over a 1 year period…. Look at his statcast page
User 401527550
Im sure the white Sox cared when they where losing games he pitched in.
Travis’ Wood
You think the white Sox cared about his reliever WAR. Got it.
User 401527550
Since all stays are tied into WAR, I definitely think they care.
Travis’ Wood
They don’t care lol why would they look at his WAR??
User 401527550
They look at all stats and scouting reports. They wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t.
Travis’ Wood
Lol
Dumpster Divin Theo
Hey it didn’t happen all that often. Since he’s a Loogy, we’ll define a blow up as giving up 2+ runs. In 61 appearances that only happened 14 times. Sure you want this guy high leverage?
bhambrave
Sorry to see Lopez go. I thought he was a keeper.
roob
Whaaaaat? I’m a Sox fan and I wouldn’t believe they could 1 decent player for this crappy reliever. Even if the Braves think they can fix him he wouldn’t be worth half that.
Does Chris Getz have nuclear weapon capability? He must have threatened them with something! Lol
Dumpster Divin Theo
That Chris Getz- he’s a baaad man
Travis’ Wood
You don’t even know the players on your favorite team… Bummer is good…
Dumpster Divin Theo
Was
Travis’ Wood
Had good statcast numbers literally last year. He’s still good
cbraves
i don’t pay attention to statcast.
Travis’ Wood
Willingly ignorant, congrats
GooseGoslinGuy
Do you pay attention to ERA and WAR?? If yes, don’t tell rols1026. At least now we are all going to be eyes on Bummer. Warning: UCL issue crops up on March 25.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Go to a game. Watch him lose command on borderline pitches in a high leverage situation. Rinse and repeat. And not the anecdotal I was at that one game. More like a dozen or so. Been hearing about how his ability to miss bats and induce grounders were the special sauce – and not just overnight- he’s been hyped up for the last several years. Always seemed to be on the edge of trouble pitching into jams. Finally came crashing down last year. He’s yours. Again good luck- he’s a good dude. Just tired of the peripherals saying he’s much better then he shows. Maybe a change of scenery win-win?
Dumpster Divin Theo
Hey have fun with him and statcast. Whee. Just hope you deploy him as your loogy and not much else. He shouldn’t be your setup. Buyer beware
Travis’ Wood
Wait it’s not anecdotal because you went to 12 games?? LOL
Travis’ Wood
Yeah I’ll take statcast over your 12 game in person sample size. LOL
Travis’ Wood
WAR is a great stat. But not for relievers in a 1 year sample…. Come on dude keep up
Dumpster Divin Theo
If you took a course in elementary statistics you’d appreciate 12/60 is a relevant sample size. Like political polling- you think they actually survey 80 million voters?
DarkSide830
1.5 WHIP two years running.
PattheBat
Nobody in a front office cares about WHIP
User 401527550
Everyone in front office cares about whip. What are you talking about?
filihok
DS
WHIP is a poor measure of pitcher performance for the same reason ERA is – both are highly dependent on defense and the stadium, not to mention batted ball variation
DarkSide830
What does the walk rate have to do with these things?
YankeesBleacherCreature
Take a look at Snell’s stats. His WHIP was almost 1.2. But he was also masterful at inducing soft-contact and K’ing hitters with runners on. Bummer is also a high strikeout pitcher and doesn’t give up a ton of homeruns. Those are the peripherals why the Braves made the trade.
filihok
DS
Less than the hit rate
If you want to talk about walk rate, BB% is right there.
But hit rate is largely dependent on defense, stadium and batted ball variance.
DarkSide830
There’s a pretty big deferment between a 1.2 and a 1.5. that’s 1 more baserunner, roughly, per 3 innings.
YankeesBleacherCreature
I get that but using WHIP definitively isn’t a good case for stating why a pitcher is bad. Perhaps the Braves can help fix Bummer using better pitch selection and sequencing.
Dumpster Divin Theo
“We can fix him” – famous last words
GooseGoslinGuy
If their WHIP is high, it means one thing: They are putting runners on base, no matter which city they are pitching in. And that is a bad, bad thing. Really good pitchers have low WHIPs almost always. You put fewer guys on base, fewer guys score, your ERA goes down, you win games, and your WAR goes up.
filihok
GGG
“If their WHIP is high, it means one thing: They are putting runners on base”.
LOL, no
Do the people commenting here even watch baseball?
Pitchers don’t give up hits, teams do
The 7 guys behind the pitcher aren’t just watching the game from really good seats. They are participating in the game. Trying to, you know, prevent hits. A pitcher with prime Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith behind them are going to give up fewer hits that if it was you and I behind them. WE would be responsible for those extra hits. Why do you want to blame the pitcher for that?
Same with stadium. Put whoever you want in Coors field, they are going to get up fewer balls than they will in, say, Fenway
Imagine thinking you’re a baseball fan and not understanding this
Dumpster Divin Theo
Wow anyone who doesn’t agree with your aristocratic world view is not a baseball fan if they don’t “understand your gobbledygook”. Pitchers don’t give up hits, teams do. Is that like guns don’t kill people. People do. Or actually I have the analogy backwards. My bad. More like pitchers don’t give up runs. It’s the bat’s fault for hitting the baseball. Hitting it where no fielder could go
filihok
DDT
It’s amazing how much overlap there is is between bad baseball takes and bad life takes there is.
Though U guess there shouldn’t be. Idiots gonna idiot.
Let me ask you some questions that you won’t answer
What do you think the 7 players standing behind the pitcher are doing?
Do you think a batting team will get more his, fewer hits, or the same amount of his with 7 bad defenders compared to 7 good defenders with the same pitcher?
DarkSide830
Anyway, I guess there goes my Rosario-WS prediction, most likely.
TheProfessor31
There has to be more to this, god I hope.
Travis’ Wood
Bummer is good
TradeAcuna
That is a weird way to spell Dylan Cease.
Franco27
The 5 players from the Braves are mostly garbage, lol.
Braves Butt-Head
Not garbage more Meh and injured
richardc
Riley Gowens definitely isn’t garbage, neither is Lopez.
Pads Fans
Lopez was about to be non-tendered. Maybe not garbage, but no value.
Gowens was a 9th round draft pick last season after a 6+ ERA at Illinois and he grades out as a 35 by BA. Not much value there either.
roob
They’re all better than Bummer.
Travis’ Wood
None are even close to Bummer
Braves Butt-Head
But I want to know who is the the utility IF bat if they are moving Grissom to LF?
steelerbravenation
Grissom is not a LFer
There are going to be other moves
The non-tender deadline is coming up
There will be an abundance of utility types available after that
Grissom should be moved for a SP or LF
melfman1
Something is missing here… two potential starters (when healthy) and a couple of first round picks for a middling lefty reliever. When is the other shoe going to drop?
Travis’ Wood
He’s not a middling reliever he’s very good and the potential starters are bad. What’s missing is your analysis of these players
HBan22
By “very good”, you must mean his strikeout rate. Because his ERA last year and WHIP the past two seasons combined have not been good at all.
filihok
HB
ERA and WHIP are terrible metrics for valuing pitchers
Both are very reliant on defense, stadium and batted ball variance
Manfred Rob's Earth Band
You don’t watch White Sox baseball
GooseGoslinGuy
Trigger warning: Man with obsession over reliever named Aaron Bummer sporting a 1.5 WHIP and a 6.79 ERA, whom he says is really good.
User 401527550
Sororka has the most upside by far of anyone I’m the trade.
havanabraves
I may not know anything about baseball, because I don’t understand this trade.
Travis’ Wood
Bummer is good. Those 5 players are mediocre at best and might’ve been non tendered tomorrow if not traded.
filihok
BTV has the White Sox’s return at $6.5 million and Bummer worth $1 million ($7.8 million production and $6.8 million salary)
Travis’ Wood
Braves probably higher on Bummer than the projections so I can see how they’d come out ahead or beak even
Pads Fans
fili still thinks BTV is worthwhile to quote. Talk about the definition of insanity.
Braves got a high leverage lefty reliever that strikes out 12 per 9 IP and induces groundballs at a 60% clip.
The White Sox got 2 players that were destined to be non-tendered and 4 that could not make the MLB roster on any team other than maybe the White Sox plus a 24 year old 9th round draft pick that had a 6+ ERA in college.
PattheBat
lol none of those guys are starters or even close
iml12
They are for the white sox
Travis’ Wood
Maybe 5th starters or swingmen but yeah they aren’t great lol
Pads Fans
Lopez and Soroka might not make the team for the A’s. Are you saying the White Sox are going to be worse than the A’s?
iml12
Right? That was an easy off-season.
bhambrave
Wondering why Gowens was included. He isn’t even on the 40-man.
HBan22
I agree, he seems like an unnecessary addition. They really had to add him in order to get the White Sox to take this deal?
GooseGoslinGuy
That was my guess. Even Chris Getz is probably smart enough to know the others come as damaged goods or unfulfilled potential. Given the risk, he asked for the throw-in. And you never know about those throw-ins!
Dumpster Divin Theo
Gowens was prolly his target all along: like Ryne Sandberg in that Bowa for Dejesus deal. The rest all an elaborate smokescreen. That Getz. He’s a baaad man!
rotofool
Gowens is a local kid, probably scouted for years by the SOX and had some admirers. His brief dominance in pro-ball make him a lottery ticket the SOX could get added as a sweetener that could potentially make a decent deal, excellent. Usually one is added in deals for vet relievers or starters, rookie ball types. This one aspect of the trade makes me far more confident in GM Getz. Schuster and Soroka would’ve been an adequate return alone for a team with the WORST major league staff.
Whether Gowens hits or misses, it’s a great return for a replaceable MR on a non-contender. Bummer will be a useful reliever for a ready to win Braves club.
Dumpster Divin Theo
I’m wondering too if new baseball pitching coordinator Brian Banister who likely saw more of Soroka and Shuster with the Giants, along with broken pitch whisperer Ethan Katz saw something they like with these projects. Another Giolito-Lopez-Dunning acquisition? Soroka already has achieved more in his young career than any of those 3 did in their cups of coffee with the Nats. Hmmm.
rotofool
I think you hit it on the head! Supposedly, ATL &CWS had a trade worked out for Bummer at the deadline, but was vetoed within the SOX FO schism. Whomever was on the ATL side of players may have changed under the new deal, influenced by Bannister, Wise, Barfield, and Getz’s preferences.
The logic of the deal certainly looks a lot like the Eaton deal with WAS. Schuster looks a lot like the Giolito portion, highly rated but never getting the true shot after a limited, lackluster debut. SOX we’re drooling for Dunning in the draft but chose Burdi, then went Dunning a pick later. This past draft, SOX took a Jake Peppers in the 9th, who had a bit of buzz, then went Gowens to ATL, with SOX taking an older senior pitcher for 10K min in the 10th…might’ve been hoping for local kid Gowens to take that slot. Shewmake another prospect failing at bit in a brief stint kinda like Lopez, albeit at another pos of need.
Nicky an obvious choice for Grifol, Soroka the obvious starter need, both as extras added by this FO, neither of whom would’ve been available at the deadline.
Franco27
If that’s true, it’s going to be a long year.
iml12
That’s a fact.
scjohn92
Is it possible that Anthony Franco heard wrong and the Braves are actually acquiring Dillon Cease? I can’t imagine what AA sees in Bummer?
Braves Butt-Head
AA moves fast be looking out for the nuclear bomb to hit I’m giving you all a fair warning something big is about to happen.
angt222
Figured Soroka would eventually get moved in a lower level swap like this.
Catuli Carl
Anthopoulos saw that 6.8 ERA and needed it at any price.
Travis’ Wood
Cause he probably didn’t even look at his ERA once while making this trade
Jeremy320
Anthopoulos probably never even watched him pitch. Not a good trade for Atl but they needed to clear space. Nothing but bad choices to be made.
Moonlight Graham
I understand the logic behind Atlanta clearing 40-man space. But the Braves couldn’t do a little better than an inconsistent reliever?
And after all that time waiting for Soroka to come back, I’m surprised they wouldn’t give him a little more time to get back up to speed. It wouldn’t be surprising if he ends up producing at the same level as whatever frontline starter Atlanta is about to give $30 million a year.
Travis’ Wood
Soroka a frontline starter?? Absolutely zero chance…. Better chance he’s out of the league within a year. 5th starter at best
filihok
rols
You’re using “literally” here to mean, figuratively, right,
Because it’s not literally 0%. It might be a very small chance, but not LITERALLY 0
Travis’ Wood
Not sure where you see the word literally….. and yes there is no chance Soroka becomes a front line starter
filihok
Rols
My bad, “Absolutely”.
Everything I said.still applies
There is some chance. Not absolutely 0
Travis’ Wood
That’s fine. There’s a .01% chance Soroka becomes an elite starter
filihok
That’s a better guess than “absolutely” 0
Travis’ Wood
Lol smh
Baseball_dude
You’re a great scout
RunDMC
Better? Not likely a day before the non-tender deadline for the group they gave up. Wait a day and you wouldn’t even get anyone that would fill one of those 40-man roster spots they freed up.
Everyone knows the clubhouse dysfunction in 2023 for ChiSox – thanks to some former players. Bummer’s ’23 FiP was 3.58, not far off from his career numbers, with high K/9 (12.0), albeit a high BB/9 rate. I’d chalk up some of that high ERA (6.79) to bad luck and bad defense, though ERA isn’t a good indicator of RP performance. His numbers are actually better (FiP) than Pierce Johnson’s numbers out of COL — and look what he did instantly putting on a Braves uni. Get out of a clubhouse full of noise and into one that seeks to maximize your potential and it’s amazing what you’ll get.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Couldn’t Soroka at least have a Mike Clevinger type bounceback season under Ethan Katz tutelage, this amount of time removed from surgery? I mean that hasn’t happened to a Mike Clevinger type guy with the Sox since…2023?
Subatomicbunt
Does anyone think that maybe the Braves should have traded 8 players for him instead?? 5 seems conservative..
Dumpster Divin Theo
3am infomercial- they prolly had Chris Getz at just Soroka, but his cat disconnected the phone and the Braves got really nervous when they heard silence on the other end, taking that as hardball tactics. But Wait, there’s more!
Subatomicbunt
You betcha! 1st person to speak loses the sale!
Dumpster Divin Theo
Second place: steak knives. Third place: you’re fired! Fourth place: you’re fired!
Subatomicbunt
Put! The Coffee!!! DOWN Theo!!! You call yourself a salesman you son of a Bauer?
AllAboutBaseball
Reading this article makes me feel like I hit my head sometime today and I’m just making up MLB the Show trades
Chad M
I know that no one the Sox are getting are superstars, but how does Bummer warrant that kind of return? Is it truly just a dump of players the Braves didn’t want to give a roster spot to? With that many players involved it seems likely that one of them could become a significant contributor. I wonder if the Braves see something in Bummer they think they can fix.
vacommish
Bummer had some solid setup years before injuries got him knocked around. Maybe they see a healthy year under their tutelage.
GooseGoslinGuy
Still seems like an awful lot for a bounce-back gamble.
RunDMC
2 guys (Soroka, Lopez) most likely would have been non-tendered and they’d receive zilch for them. Shuster is a former 1st rd pick that took a step back in ’23 and hasn’t put things together consistently above AA-ball. Riley Gowens is the most intriguing to me. Shewmake reminds me of Gordon Beckham, someone that will most likely be a career utility knife with spotty offense, not unlike Nicky Lopez.
Travis’ Wood
Bummer is good and those 5 players are not and we’re all candidates to be non tendered tomorrow
Aaron Sapoznik
True enough. We’re all candidates to be non-tendered tomorrow or at some point in our lives.
Travis’ Wood
Yeah. Gotta make yourself valuable
Appalachian_Outlaw
Funny, I haven’t seen ANY of my Major League checks yet. I need to talk to my agent. Anyone here have any idea who my agent is? I’m also concerned I’m potentially getting non-tendered tomorrow, and I don’t even know by which club!
Sigh.
I guess I get it, though. I haven’t shown up at the stadium yet.
Chopon
Two former first rounders, that is a lot of bonus money down the drain.
RunDMC
Dana Brown is not undefeated. Frankly, it was down the drain when they signed Schuster. I’m no scout, but what they saw in Cusick and Schuster at Wake is beyond me. If you’re a Braves fan, don’t look on who they passed on (Bobby Miller – 4 picks later). 2020 Draft limited scout research of picks because the craziness of that year.
vacommish
It is a something for nothing move. Many of those had to be tendered or they’d be released.
Joel P
I don’t believe those 5 guys are any good but Bummer isn’t that great and makes a lot of money. And it’s 5 freaking guys. I like this trade for the White Sox for sure. They could use the depth even if the players are meh.
stubby66
I do wonder about the first rounders that are in this deal. Now from what I understand these players signing bonuses when drafted is spread out over 5 years. So who will pay the rest. Atlanta or Chicago?
John Sewall
This trade is confirmed to have actually happened???
Bummer: three years of team control. AA is going for minor league options and years of control.
bhambrave
Watch Bummer become an All-Star and get the win in game 7 of the WS.
RunDMC
Seriously, you’re not far off. Everyone is talking about his ERA, but compare his FiP, SO/9 rate to Pierce Johnson pre-acquisition and it’s not far off. Also, take in mind the ChiSox clubhouse issues that even saw Dylan Cease take a major step back (and almost everyone else on that team not named Luis Robert Jr.) in ’23.
ChiSoxPain
Oh please. Bummer walks guys constantly in key situations… because of clubhouse issues? I don’t even care what he ends up doing down there. It was time for him to go. Just too bad they traded him a year or two too late.
RunDMC
He’s a RP — he’s not working garbage time. He’s mostly in “key situations”, so if he walks anyone, it’s usually then. Sure, to have 12.0 SO/9, you’re going to walk some guys. The raw stuff is there, now let’s just see if they can harness it. If you traded him after 2022 season, you would have def gotten a lot more quality guys for him.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Clubhouse issues did not cause Dylan to throw a lot of pitches and rarely get out of the 6th inning- even in his dominant 6th inning. Near league leader in bbs despite his filthy slider. Unless there’s some spooky Dallas Keuchel effect from 2021
Dumpster Divin Theo
Are clubhouse issues responsible for chronic injuries to Eloy, Moncada, Grandal, Robert (in 22)?
RunDMC
Clubhouse issues weren’t the reason for Bummer’s bad numbers. What had a more direct effect was ChiSox’s bad IF defense the last few years for a GB pitcher like Bummer. You don’t think they felt the need to strike more guys out b/c teammates can’t consistently field a grounder or turn a DP? Funny how his FiP was so much lower than his ERA. My point is that they had a team in disarray and it wouldn’t surprise anyone to see someone enter a more stable clubhouse like ATL’s and excel in front of a much better IF defense.
LFGMets (Metsin7) #FireCarlosMendoza&DrewSmith
The Whitesox just fleeced the Braves. Nicky Lopez is arguably one of the best defenders in the game. Hes basically a better version of Luis Guillorme. Light hitting super utility fielder with ++ defense. As for Soroka, the Braves would been better off keeping him as a bullpen piece, hes better than Bummer. Schuster is trash in my opinion, not a fan at all of his pitching. Everyone else I don’t have an opinion on. I hope Grissom gets a chance, I think he can be one of the best hitters in baseball, the Braves are just so loaded that they can never give him an opportunity. If the Braves want a package of say Baty, Alex Ramirez, and Dominic Hamel for Grissom I’d do it in a heartbeat
bc85
Grissom sucks
John Sewall
Whew. Lefty reliever insurance for Matzek.
Also, doesn’t seem like Grissom is going anywhere.
HBan22
I feel like the Braves are giving up too soon on both Soroka and Shuster. Neither may be more than back end starter material going forward, but the Braves don’t have a ton of SP depth at the moment. I get they are trying to clear out roster space, and clearly see something in Bummer. But this still seems like an overpay and that they could have got a more intriguing return for both Soroka and Shuster. Time will tell. AA doesn’t make many bad moves, after all.
roob
In exchange, Getz agreed to stop seeing AA’s wife.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Gotta be an ego boost for Bummers wife. Geez, my guy is equal to five guys
bighiggy
@dumpster divin: Their burgers are honestly not that good. I said it, and they are over priced
Dumpster Divin Theo
You’re not wrong bighiggy- do they have epic burger out by you?
Idosteroids
Gave up too soon on Soroka….lol. Is 4 years be being patient while hes sitting on the IL not enough? Feel bad for the guy but its time to move on. That turbo sinker, what he was known for, isnt turbo anymore.
hoof hearted
Braves trade 3 -1st rounders!!
Dumpster Divin Theo
For a 30 yr old 19th round pickup with decent stuff but questionable makeup and command. Yikes
getrealgone2
Have you seen any of them play? They aren’t good
steelerbravenation
Shoulda just threw in Grissom & got back Cease
jmero
The Braves love hard throwing LH relievers. I trust the Braves ability to fix Bummer’s issues the last two seasons. I trust it infinitely more than the White Sox’s ability to fix Bummer. If they fix Bummer and make him better than he was, this is a potentially great trade for them and mutually beneficial for both sides. Sox at the very least need organizational depth. None of these players will get better with the Sox based on recent track record, but maybe they’ll get lucky with health in Soroka and some natural development with a soft tosser like Shuster. They really need a LH SP as it is.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Hope it’s a win win. Aarons a great guy and despite his bouts with control and his tendency to let bad situations mushroom into 5 spots, was always accountable during postgame interviews. But woulda thought a more enterprising team would have bought low considering how things got away from him. A 5 for 1 is not buying low. That’s more like peak value return.
jmero
Don’t disagree with a thing you wrote here. I would say that the only player that was sent from ATL that could actually have a place on the 25 man would be Soroka. The Braves have more coming and that’s not even including what they could and likely will do in FA. But these players could have great value for a listless franchise on the SouthSide. Especially if they’re trying to change the culture. You inject 5 players in some capacity into your org, and they immediately make you better. If nothing else because because the Braves way is a thing. You now have 5 guys who know what a real baseball culture should be like coming into a culture where the inmates were running the asylum.
Again, I think this is win win.
Dumpster Divin Theo
The problem in Chicago is not the culture. Culture sure wasn’t an issue in 20-21 when guys like Jose Abreu and Gio were setting the example. Bad players beyond the starters once injuries took their toll, lack of advance scouting and substandard player development. And sleepy Tony. That’s the issue. So stop it with some story about the Braves way. You guys have just been rocking it with elite player development. No need to overthink it. But yes, four prospects plus Nicky will do nicely to boost the pipeline. Hope you find a use for Aaron in the 6th
jmero
You couldn’t be more incorrect on this take. I’m a White Sox fan and have been for 34 years. They have a lot of problems. Culture is certainly one of them. It absolutely is. The Braves do have a way of doing business. Anyone who follows baseball moderately knows that. You can call it what you want but to say it doesn’t exist is simply incorrect.
RunDMC
I don’t know you hear quotes from former ChiSox players (Middleton, Lynn, etc.) and think there’s not a culture problem. And that’s stuff that was said. A 60% GB southpaw with a high K-rate potential that can now pitch to contact….sure we’ll find a spot for him and turn your chicken s— into chicken salad.
GooseGoslinGuy
We will be watching the ATL and SOX spring training with a great deal of interest.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Jeez, would have taken just Nicky Lopez for Bummer, a 19th round talent who got the most out of his average stuff but lacked the makeup or command to ever be a high leverage arm. The rest is found money in the couch. If just one develops…
Travis’ Wood
Average stuff??
Pads Fans
279 of Bummer’s career 289 appearances were in the 7-8-9 innings. 150 of those were high leverage situations. In late and close games he had allowed just a .220 BA and .625 OPS. In high leverage situations a .230 BA and .627 OPS. In case you are wondering, that means he was very, very good in high leverage situations and late in close games. He is a high leverage arm.
Soroka and Lopez were non-tender candidates. Neither would have been on the Braves tomorrow if they had not been traded. They were the change in the couch cushions. Shuster and Shewmake were headed back to the minors. Both appear to be busts.
Shuster has an ERA around 5 and a FIP around 5.3 in two seasons in AAA. His high walk rate coupled with a below average K rate is not a good sign. Shewmake has hit .237 with a .697 OPS in two seasons in AA and AAA. All glove, not bat SS do sometimes make it to the majors as a utility player, but Lopez is that guy for the White Sox now. In a terrible White Sox farm system Shewmake ranks 27th and is a 40 FV. That means below average ceiling.
rotofool
Shewmake was Braves #15, now SOX #27, showing a bit of hope for CWS’ depth of farm system.
bhambrave
Shewmake’s draft was a head-scratcher the moment it happened. I think the Braves took him in the first round because they could sign him below slot and use his money on other players. I think the Braves currently have the thinnest system in baseball. They freed up ten slots on the 40-man. They’ll probably try to rebuild their system with some minor league Rule 5 picks.
bhambrave
Sucks for these players, going from the Braves to the White Sox.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Sucks to have to sheepishly do the lame tomahawk wave but hey you do you
bhambrave
The Eastern Band Cherokee tribes don’t have a problem with it.
Dumpster Divin Theo
It’s no so much the reaction of the Eastern Band Cherokee brethren , more like the pointing and guffawing from every other National league fan over 8.
formegn hardgin
they’re being paid to say it’s okay so that you can say this on the internet
bhambrave
It doesn’t change my original point. Those players are going from a perennial contender to a team that is not currently a contender. On the bright side, they have a better chance of sticking in the majors on a second-division team.
bhambrave
So it’s a win/win.
Dumpster Divin Theo
All joking aside you’re not wrong. Win win one hopes
Pads Fans
That is all you have? The Chop? Going from being on a playoff team to last place team sucks. Every time. All the time.
bhambrave
Dumpster Divin Haters gonna hate.
Dumpster Divin Theo
What’s that old English proverb, Tennyson I believe: better to have loved and lost, like the Braves. Then Padres?
GooseGoslinGuy
Not if they get a chance to actually play instead of getting shuttled between Atlanta and Gwinnett.
Rsox
White Sox get their 2B (or SS) and 2 starting pitchers for LOOGY (if only he could still be) with an ERA close to 7. Either AA knows something the rest of us don’t or you shouldn’t make trades while drinking…
BaseballisLife
AA knows a lot of things we don’t. One is probably that he was going to non-tender Soroka and Lopez tomorrow.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
This was an oddly robust trade for a bunch of deeply mediocre pitchers
Dumpster Divin Theo
Only thing I can think of is Chris Getz’ cat hit the mute button on his laptop and the Braves took the silence as Getz tried waving frantically as him playing hardball so just kept upping the ante. It’s like the Sham wow infomercial. They had me at the first sponge. But wait, there’s more!
good vibes only
Yuck for both sides
SCOTTG3
Sox win!
Datashark
Whitesox went to the meat market and picked up 80% fat ground beef. – lopez is at best late inning defensive purposes player. All the others may never be but you never know its a lot of fat they picked up for a guy that had a rough season.
Blue Baron
Bummer, man.
Camden453
eh, good trade for the Braves. Bummer will probably turn back into an elite reliever in Atlanta’s culture
The only thing they really give up is Shuster, but he’s just a 6th, 7th depth starter
Braves didn’t give up much taking a gamble
Not having Shuster for depth is not insignificant because he has options, but there’s other arms in the system they can use
Chance to get an elite reliever without giving up anything really significant? Good move
filihok
Per Statcast
Bummer had an expected ERA of 3.5 last year based on his excellent K and whiff rates, ground ball rates and ability to miss barrels..
Travis’ Wood
Also very good FIP
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
We care about expected ERA but we don’t care about ERA?
Travis’ Wood
Well it’s a significantly better stat so yeah? Its whole purpose is to improve upon ERA. If ERA was better why would xERA need to exist? Come on man
Travis’ Wood
It’s also one of many factors that point to success. Try using your brain before commenting next time
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
That’s a great reminder, thanks
Subatomicbunt
What an ignorant sob you are!!! (Lol)
GooseGoslinGuy
More commentary from Mr. Metrics. FIP or FAP?
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Heavy on the xFAP. That’s for certain. But it wasn’t until I saw last season’s xwFAPcon I was like…this guy has no more bullets left in the chamber.
HalosHeavenJJ
Getz went quantity on the return. But guys with high draft positions and grades.
He’s hoping 1 plays up to his draft slot.
Dumpster Divin Theo
This just in: turns out there was a communication snafu. Chris Getz, while looking to unload his underperforming hurler (and it being 330pm and having skipped lunch), blurted out in a cheeky manner: “you can have Bummer for some Five Guys” as his Chevy nova entered the driveway of the popular burger franchise. AA, connection fuzzy while driving over the Talahatchie bridge instantly agreed. “ Deal!!!!”
BaseballisLife
That is the most comments I have ever seen for a trade this minor
The Braves just dumped 2 guys that they were found to non-tender tomorrow, 2 guys that were headed to the minors because they would not be able to crack the major league roster and a never has been for a guy that had a career 3 ERA before 2023 and is controlled for several year on team friendly options.
Now the Braves have 3 empty 40 man roster spots and they cleared about $6 million in payroll.
getrealgone2
See you make too much sense for this site.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Or….the value of a Loogy who throws up 60 mid leverage innings, even if ‘blazing’ on all cylinders in the 6th is……. vs value of a plus multi positional infielder AND at least one potential mid to back of the rotation starter delivering 150 innings is….?
And what if said trade delivers not one starter but two?
YourDreamGM
Seems Braves just dumped their trash on Chicago and picked up a late innings reliever.
A for Atlanta
C for Chicago
Dumpster Divin Theo
B- for decent screen name.
D for simplistic conclusion.
YourDreamGM
BD better than ED.
ghost of andy sonnanstine's future
Shocked by the comments here, Bummer has been an elite reliever for years now. It might be easy to look at, but ERA is a useless stat.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Yeah giving up runs is useless. Useless I say because I’m good at math!
filihok
DDT
It’s not about being good at math
The math behind things like FIP and xFIP isn’t much harder than the math behind ERA
It’s about being good at thinking, which explains why so many people are against it
Eric Olson 2
What a bummer!
bus035
This is a really interesting trade and I love how the article nailed it exactly, great organizations like Atlanta find specific players and aren’t scared to probably over trade (on paper) to get who they feel like they need. Aaron Bummer is nasty and don’t let the inflated ERA fool you.
The White Sox are going with the upside play of a quantity of former solid prospects who don’t possess tantalizing skills. Soroka is interesting but his achillies injury history is a bit uneasy. Hopefully, one of these players turns into something.
Dumpster Divin Theo
This deal is exactly the kind of deal that Kenny Williams would have pulled off…on the other side. Fall in love with someone because you love the cut of his jib or the tools- which scouts have been touting for years and years w Bummer. Sort of I’ll send you a bunch of my surplus stuff I have no use for – for the shiny object. Hello Nick Swisher and Jeff Samardiza! Goodbye Gio Gonzalez and Marco Semsem and Chris Bassitt whoever you are- we hardly knew ya
UK Brave
It’s a good trade by the Braves.
Soroka, Shewmake, and Lopez were all getting non-tendered tomorrow to save $8.5m of 2024 salary.
Schuster is ranked around 15th in most top 30 Braves prospects lists, and that’s one of the weakest farm systems in baseball.
The other guy is an unranked 24 year old non-prospect.Sometimes those guys work out and contribute at the MLB level but not very often.
Lopez was acquired for effectively nothing midseason, so although he has good fielding skills, no team wanted him at $4m a year. The Braves will get another Lopez like player at the deadline if they need one probably for next to nothing..
The Braves get Bummer and save $3m net for 2024, if he’s decent he adds to a group of relievers for 2025 and 26 who can step in and fill the closer role as Iglesias and his $16m salary comes off the books after 2024.
This trade is warm bodies for the WS in season 2024, but boils down to Schuster for Bummer, and a hope that Soroka fills innings
Sad to see Soroka go as a young guy who’s Braves career was obliterated by the Achilles injuries. They made him change his delivery last year to put less strain on the Achilles and his pitches and command just weren’t the same. It’s hard to imagine he would have been good enough to stay on the Braves roster next season and is out of options, which is why he was going to be non-tendered.
Bummers advanced metrics look very good, a bit like Pierce Johnson’s from last season who came over from the Rockies with a horrendous ERA but was absolutely sensational for the Braves.
mlbfan
I concur, the Braves cleared off nontender players. Soroka has only one year of control left. Good trade for the Braves.
Idosteroids
I’m in awe of what AA was able to do here. Traded some pieces that would have been otherwise free agent in less that 24 hours into a big arm in the pen.
Slow day at work
I agree UK Brave, but don’t discount what the White Sox also accomplish.
They instantly got a replacement for Tim Anderson now in Nicky Lopez and also a possible longer term replacement in Shewmake.
Schuster can also be a valuable back of the rotation inning eater starter with lots of years under control.
Soroka is a 1 year renovation lotto ticket., if he works out and becomes a solid #3 starter they could flip him at the trade deadline for a decent piece, worst case scenario he’s off the books next year.
Then we get to the real wild card of the deal, Riley Gowens. Most likely he could be someone who no one will ever remember as part of this deal, or he could also be a solid pitcher who is controllable for most of his prime years,
This deal is great for both teams. The Braves get a possible valuable piece for the bullpen for spare parts that we didn’t need. While the White Sox get a bunch of low risk/high reward players for a reliever that they really don’t need
Dumpster Divin Theo
Bummer is useful. But he is not your closer. Speaking as a frustrated fan who likes Aaron as a person and has a lot of respect for the Braves as an organization but don’t want to see him thrust into potential meltdown situations. Will have to look this up- but seem to recall the teams that tees off on Bummer were patient clubs who’d wait for him to lose command tinkering around the edges- typically other AL central teams that had the book on him over the last 6 yrs
LordD99
Interesting.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Its a bummer the Braves gave up so much.
EM41
Once again Anthopoulos surprises us. I thought maybe he was done strengthening the bullpen after re-signing Jimenez and Johnson and picking up Murfee and Perdomo. Bummer gives the Braves five lefthanders for their pen, though Lee and Perdomo don’t have a guaranteed contracts for 2024.
By clearing 3 roster spots Anthopoulos now has room to acquire a starter or two and needs a utility infielder.
Braves83
You have not seen nothing yet–no one has.
I.M. Insane
If I were the White Sox, I’d have been happy with just Lopez and Soroka. The rest of the return is gravy. I don’t get what the Braves did on this one.
EM41
The Braves cleared 3 roster spots for future acquisitions – a starter is needed and a utility infielder at a lower salary than Lopez. And more Anthopoulos surprises.
Baseball_dude
Yikes
its_happening
AA must’ve thought he was in Toronto.
Great deal for the White Sox since the Braves offered it for a Bummer.
Cleon Jones
At the very least its nice to see some trade action. MLB offseason is a snoozefest compared to other sports.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Three former #1 picks, a versatile MI and a reliever with late-inning potential for a guy whose ERA number looks like the number painted on a Boeing jetliner!
Hey, AA. Christmas is still more than a month away! No need to start handing out gifts today.
All in all, “bummer” deal for the Chop House.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I have to admit I thought Getz was a bad choice. Still a long way to go to prove me wrong, but the hires of Bannister and Barfield and this trade show he’s on the right track. Great deal for the Sox!
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Exactly how many LH relievers does one team need? If the Braves were gonna give up five players, three of whom are former #1 picks, they should have used that package to acquire a new LF.
I bet Boston would have taken all five for Verdugo. LA probably would have bought that bushel of apples for Outman.
I think AA could have done better.
filihok
BCttBC
“This doesn’t make up for the businesses that went under thanks to MLB’s decision, ”
BTV values the players going to the White Sox at $6.5 million
They value Verdugo at $5 million
So, a reasonable deal
They value Outman at $43 million
So…not close
Tom the ray fan
Strictly a trade to clear 40 man roster spots
Braves83
Not yet but later in the day–yup.
wvsteve
Great trade for Sox.
BallzDeep
I think most are missing the big picture here. four out of five of these players are not making the braves roster anytime soon the exception is maybe Lopez as a utility defensive player. what this trade does is frees up 4 40 man roster spots which I’m assuming one of them will be taken up by bummer now. why do you think they are clearing the 40 Man roster? free agency and other trades…. soroka is not what he was, shuster’s ceiling seems to be AAA, shewmake seems to be another Lopez defensive stud, Lopez would have been nice to keep for utility and Owens it’s too early to tell but intriguing stuff
braves95 2
I wouldn’t have done Soroka OR Shuster straight up for him, much less throw in 3 others.
And I get it. Soroka has been hurt A LOT. But this was an overpay IMO. I hope I’m wrong.
getrealgone2
You most assuredly are.
showfeet
It doesn’t make sense on paper, but if I’ve learned anything, it’s that you really can’t question AA. He is just thinking on another level and always has an end game in mind.
uvmfiji
So they added a lefty, opened up a spot for Grissom and ensured that Soroka starts don’t cost them the NL East. Seems good?
braves95 2
Plot twist: You can think Bummer doesn’t suck while also thinking the Braves gave up too much.
Ted
This is the perfect trade if you want to identify casual fans of a team who think they’re experts.
Excellent deal for the Braves. Usually you can only turn 5 pieces of junk into a bone fide major leaguer on Xbox
I certainly wish Soroka the best but the Braves couldn’t keep him on the roster indefinitely.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
As soon as I seen the six player trade with the Braves my first thought is Vaughn Grissom is gone. Pretty sure he will be the Braves left fielder in 2024 now.
CluHaywood
A lifelong fan, I’ve become so incredibly apathetic to what this Sox organization does anymore. The moment I had heard of Nicky Lopez in KC, I knew he was going to eventually make his way to this team, because he is from suburban Naperville. Soroka also seemed like a lock for the Sox; former high draft pick that has been ravaged by injuries. The 3 others I’m not familiar with at all, and likely won’t make any impact in any capacity. The only thing that strikes me is that they got 5 for Aaron Bummer. Have fun with that dumpster fire. But if anyone could curb his penchant for walking the building when he come into a game, it would be Atlanta.
Macbeth
Trading 5 bums for 1 bum.
msqboxer
Helps clean out players the Braves have clogging up their system that don’t have high ceilings and offset some money by including Lopez. Bummer has the stuff to be lights out, just needs to harness it more often and having a better catcher will help. For CWS, this seems to be a pre-curser to a Dylan Cease trade as they accumulate additional fringy starters to go with Kopech, Crochect, Toussaint, Scholtens, Patino and Elder and hope some pan out.
sportingdissent
Bummer had a bad year last year, aided by a lot of bad luck but also by a slightly higher hard hit rate. Prior to last year, he was an elite lefty reliever. The Braves inherit quite a bit of control (1 year, 2 more option years) with little risk. They gave up two players they were going to non-tender anyway and three prospects, two of which they’ve given up on and are trending “failed”.
I honestly don’t think the White Sox got enough. Five players seems a lot, but there’s not a lot of trade value coming back to them compared to what they gave up.
RodBecksBurnerAccount
The Braves should of just signed Matt Moore and been much better off lol
YaGottaBelieveAgain
I agree with a lot of comments who believes ATL is giving themselves roster space flexibility to make other moves. No doubt some of the 5 were tough calls and they would have preferred to give more time to have better results. This is reality of current CBA rules. Analytical and in person scouting reports form a basis and then AA has to have a big picture perspective and make some tough calls that could not work out. He probably believes in the ability of his pitching coach to get the best out of bummer plus ATL has a deep talented minor league system to fill any positions needed.AA’s judgement seems to have an excellent track record, kind of like don’t trade with TB mindset but this could be a proverbial swing and a miss. As long as he passes the physical maybe just a blip not a trend.We shall see. I am sure ATL is unhappy that they have fallen short of winning the WS. This reliever might just be a piece of the puzzle in retrospect.I’m sure ATL will make 2 or 3 significant acquisitions before ST.
Guessing Gray, an OF and ? Maybe 2SPs
I hope no Soto trade with an extension.The plot thickens if LAD signs Ohtani. That would make ATLs path to WS harder
bravesfan
I’ll say it… this is a terrible deal. Terrible. Don’t give me the “Braves gave up nothing” bull or “big picture” stuff as if you actually know what you’re talking about, because you don’t. AA is not immune to bad trades and this very well might be one. The only, only positive out of this deal is it created roster space that didn’t exist and something called us a ton over the season and likely would have continued to do so
The Brokenheart Kid
Never has so much been said about about so many non-entities. Will Bummer finally find his consistency in Atlanta? Might, but I wouldn’t bet on it. The plus in Getz’s first trade is that nobody is going to remember any of the players he got back, and as Bummer will not be missed, it will be like the trade never happened. Getz’s monumental first trade will be remembered only by him, and judging by the garbage he got back, that’s a good thing.
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
As a braves fan this trade is a bummer. I know they didn’t give up any top pieces or anything, but it seems like a ton for a relief pitcher (and considering the braves already signed two relief pitchers in Pierce Johnson and Joe Jimenez.) Shuster was their first round draft pick in 2020, and untill last season had put up good not great numbers in the minors. Maybe foolishly, but I believe Soroka could put up good numbers next year. Nicky Lopez is a valuable defender and has shown in the not so distant past that he could be a league average hitter. He was not a terrible piece for the bench and there is a chance Arcia could regress next season, the braves unfortunately don’t have much SS depth. I’m not at all mad about giving up Shewmake however (other than the depth issue), he has continually showed that he can not hit like a league average player in the upper minors and he is only getting older. (Although some Braves fan last off-season gave me crap for saying his production has been disappointing for a 1st rounder and tried to convince me that he was in the running for the starting shortstop job.) Riley has the potential to be the gem of the package for the White Sox. Probably not too horrible of a trade, and my opinion may change but this is my raw reaction.
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
Then again, this clears up payroll. Soroka could have been non-tendered anyway. AA sure loves his strikeout rate relievers.
kwolf68
LOL at this thread. This trade makes sense for both teams and IT IS A GOOD return for the White Sox. They traded a 30 year old volatile reliever. Volatility is par for the course with middle innings guys
That said, it’s OK for Atlanta too. They open up roster space by trading away what looks like mostly low ceiling guys. If Bummer can find his command again he should be a very serviceable part of the Braves team. I still maintain the White Sox did better in this trade even though I see why Atlanta did it.
Saying the White Sox got total trash is foolish. If there was a prospect who pitched as well as Soroka did at AAA last year people would be clamoring to call that guy up. While Soroka pitched poorly in his few MLB starts and it appears the injuries have derailed a once promising career, remember this is a guy who was once a top level arm who is coming back from successive serious leg injuries. Perhaps he just needs more time to gather back some momentum, who knows?
Shuster is a guy who I know well having played in the ACC. Coming out of WFU I felt the Braves over bought on him about 30 picks too soon. Shuster always had the look of a legit back-rotation piece. He was pretty bad in Atlanta last year, mainly because of poor command. This has never been part of his profile. If he can hone in the command and improve on his breaking ball to keep hitters off his ordinary fastball, he can still slot into a MLB rotation in the 5-spot. If that happens alone I believe that’s a good deal for the White Sox. Teams need back end innings eaters
Shewmake is a guy with two plus tools. His a very good defense and an excellent base runner. His average is lagging behind, but he showed good pop in AAA last year. A guy with 16 homers and 27 steals who can play great defense at SS isn’t “trash”. Yea, I’d like to see the average go up, but his K rate is manageable that leads one to believe there could be more in the tank. This was a good post hype prospect to go after
Lopez can’t hit, we know that. But what I DO Like about the White Sox getting this guy is it sends a message that the White Sox culture is changing. In trading for Lopez (as well as Shewmake) the White Sox have acknowledged that fielding is now a priority. Their team defense has been dreadful for years now. This player is no world beater, but if you go out on the field and play soccer with the baseball, the White Sox have a guy who they can plug into the field who can catch it.
I don’t have anything to add on the 5th piece, but this is actually a pretty awesome trade for the ChiSox. They gave up a 30 year old relief pitcher who saw his Walk rate skyrocket last year. I do trust Atlanta to work with that and make him a workable piece, but the Sox didn’t trade Mariano Rivera here. And while they got a bunch of question marks in terms of players, if even ONE of those guys turn out, then this will prove to still be a great move for them. I don’t think it was “a great move” for Atlanta, rather a chess moving baseball move. Basically, a necessity to move all these guys for a RP.
JoeBrady
wolf68
LOL at this thread. This trade makes sense for both teams and IT IS A GOOD return for the White Sox.
=================
I didn’t need to read much more than this. You’re 100% right.
Atlanta got rid of a whole bunch of roster spots that might’ve been gone in a couple of hours anyway. And saved a few million.
The WS got rid of an RP that likely would make no impact on their season, even if he returned to form. And they got a few lottery tickets in return. This is exactly what they should be doing.
Digdugler
This is a big nothing. Win now team needs roster spots, trades mostly garbage players for mostly bad reliever. Maybe a bit of hope, one day, in a few of the young arms but not worth all the roster spots.
Non Roster Invitee
This trade enough to put Sox in tournament!
TheNextScottRuffcorn
It’s clear everyone praising Bummers peripherals did not watch him pitch. The man had an emotional meltdown any time there were runners on base or the slightest hint of trouble. A bag of baseballs would’ve been a welcome return. This was a nice surprise, even if it doesn’t move the needle much.
Pads Fans
What Bummer ACTUALLY did
2023
Men on base – .233 BA and .675 OPS
RISP – .230 BA and .649 OPS
Career with White Sux
Men on base – .230 BA and .625 OPS
RISP – .247 BA and .656 OPS
But wait, there’s more
2023 – RISP w/2 outs – .184 BA and .589 OPS
Career – RISP w/2 outs – .228 BA and .602 OPS
High leverage (meaning men on base and game on the line) – .230 BA and 627 OPS
In other words, your emotional meltdowns didn’t happened often. Did YOU watch him pitch? Because it certainly doesn’t seem like it
mushelbyman
this move puts the braves at 195.3 million before pre-arb and non-tender decisions. The Braves current roster is at 37 players
mushelbyman
The Braves need one frontline starting pitcher, a backup Infielder or starting shortstop which is a huge ask, and a starting left fielder
mushelbyman
I would love to see them trade Iglesias and perhaps do reunion for a third of his price with Kimbrel. Iglesias is going to make 16 million this year. in comparison, Ronald Acuna is going to make 17 million.
mushelbyman
I wonder who is going to be the third and the first base coach now. Eric Young went to the Angels to join Ron Washington
GooseGoslinGuy
Eric Young Jr.! He left the Nats, I believe.
cubbiemike
The White Sox traded one very mediocre player for 5 very mediocre players. The White Sox apparently are going to throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks. This is what a team in deep decline does.
Braves20
This roster clearing move virtually assures that Grissom will not be moved this off season.
PasstheTums
Braves needed to clear roster space and probably did not want to release some of the guys they would have had to release if they didn’t include them in this trade. Sending them to the White Sox gives those players a chance to compete for a roster spot.
Bummer is an interesting reclamation project. He has an outstanding ground ball rate (58% in 2023) and strikeout rate (78 strikeouts in 58 innings in 2023). He does need to cut back on the walks. He is particularly effective against left-handed hitters. In his entire major league career to date (2017-2023), he has given up a total of three home runs to left-handed hitters, and zero home runs to lefties in the last 4 seasons. There are some very tough lefty hitters in the NL East.
NoNeckWilliams
Just as predicted, Getz acquires the crappy Nicky Lopez, because he is Chris Getz 2.0.
… oh, and Bummer stinks
acoss13
This looks pretty good, maybe the White Sox can get some of these guys restarted again. Bummer is probably going to do well with the Braves, good change of scenery guy.
GooseGoslinGuy
Highway robbery for the Sox. If even just one or two of those players reaches his potential, the deal is worth it. Curious move for Braves. It’s not like they are moving out big salaries or something. If Bummer were, say, 23-24, you could maybe see it. But he’s 30, has had arm and leg issues, and his ’23 performance would indicate his best years are behind him. Guess lefty relievers are in short supply, but I bet the Braves could’ve gotten him for way less.
GooseGoslinGuy
Now NO ONE said that!
nrd1138
Meh, it is what it is, both sides getting something with potential, but knowing the White Sox FO, they’ll miss the mark, either with the Major league players they got or mismanaging and not develop any prospects. But hey at least they got Nicky Lopez, I bet Benetti creamed his shorts (as he would not shut up about him) and wishes he did not go to Detroit now.. Nicky Lopez only had good games vs the Sox, so it makes sense that Getz wanted him, that and also that he was a KC Royal as well.