The Yankees and Guardians have agreed on a trade that will send outfielder Estevan Florial to Cleveland in exchange for right-hander Cody Morris, per an announcement from both clubs.
The trade ends Florial’s tenure with the Yankees, with whom he signed out of the Dominican Republic back in 2015. After posting solid numbers in the lower levels of the minor leagues during his teenage years and reaching the High-A level before his 20th birthday, Florial began getting buzz as a consensus top-50 prospect throughout the sport prior to the 2018 season. Unfortunately, things came off the rails for Florial somewhat from there as the outfielder struggled at the High-A level in both 2018 and 2019. He made his big league debut during the shortened 2020 season and since then has served as a depth outfielder for the big league Yankees, with 48 appearances in the majors total in his four-year big league career.
While Florial, 26, has managed a slash line of just .209/.313/.296 across his 134 career plate appearances in the majors, his time in the minor leagues has seen him improve substantially in recent years. Fl0rial sports a career slash line of .265/.358/.490 at the Triple-A level, with an even more impressive .284/.380/.565 slash line in 101 games at the level in 2023. Given Florial’s extremely limited big league exposure to this point in his career, it’s easy to imagine him finding some level of success in Cleveland, where he should have a clear path to at least semi-regular at-bats. The Guardians put forth the third-worst outfield unit in the majors last year by measure of wRC+, as the club’s outfielders collectively hit just .250/.312/.342. Florial could challenge the likes of Ramon Laureano and Myles Straw for regular playing time alongside Steven Kwan, who appears locked into left field entering the 2024 campaign.
In exchange for Florial’s services, the Guardians are parting with Morris. The 27-year-old right-hander was the club’s seventh-round pick in the 2018 draft and first made his big league debut in 2022, where he performed well in seven appearances (five starts). While Morris posted an elevated walk rate of 12% that pushed his FIP up to 4.34, he struck out a respectable 23% of batters faced and managed an excellent 2.28 ERA in 23 2/3 innings of work during his first season in the majors.
In the minor leagues, Morris was even more impressive, with a career 1.68 ERA and a 37.8% strikeout rate in 80 1/3 innings of work between the Double-A and Triple-A levels as the 2022 campaign came to a close. Morris opened the 2023 season on the injured list due to a teres major strain but returned to action in June. While the right-hander put up respectable numbers at Triple-A, including a 3.23 ERA in 39 innings of work across 21 appearances, he struggled badly across six relief appearances in the majors with a 6.75 ERA over eight innings of work.
Despite Morris’s struggles with injury and ineffectiveness at the big league level last year, he provides the Yankees with an interesting, optionable arm who has experience pitching both out of the rotation and in the bullpen with strong numbers at the minor league level and some small-sample size success at the big league level. That type of arm would surely be attractive to just about any club, but could be particularly appealing to the Yankees after the club shipped cost-controlled pitchers like Michael King, Randy Vasquez, and Jhony Brito to San Diego as part of the package that landed the club Juan Soto earlier this month.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
“big changes”, hal claimed.
I thought Florial was a top prospect. Is Morris any good? If so, it could be to reinforce the farm with another pitcher given the Yankees’ recent trades and Rule V losses.
Florial was out of options so they needed to get something for him or DFA him.
Wasn’t he already DFA’d once?
yes and he cleared waivers (no one else wanted him)
I guess his stock as a top prospect has taken a hit …
Yes. Last spring I believe.
He was placed on waivers after 40 man rosters were set and just before the start of the season. Claiming Florial would have required a change to the 40 man after an off season of setting it. Placing him in waivers at that moment was not coincidental – it was a move that all but guaranteed that he wouldn’t be claimed and so would continue to be a call up option. Florial at his worst was better than anyone the Yankees paraded out to left last season. Saying no one wanted him ignores the carefully time placement.
That’s true. However, it’s also true that every other team considered him to be a worse option that the least player on their ML roster. Of course, that’s not just a matter of Florial’s perceived talent, but also the risk that he would not achieve that talent at the ML level in 2023. But there are quite a few crappy teams who normally would try out high risk high reward prospects at the ML level in the hope that they would pan out, and none of those took a flyer. Florial had a solid year at AAA in 2023, which increased his stock, which is why they were able get someone who could lengthen their pitching,
Also have to remember that Florial carries the stolen birth certificate stink when he tried to claim to be 16 when he was 18. Good chance several teams still don’t want to touch him. He was supposed to be one of the top signers that year and the Yankees got him cheap when his BS was discovered.
Maybe 3 years ago
Morris has good stuff, but he literally is made of paper mache. He can’t stay healthy
Literally?
Yeah, it’s nuts how many people don’t understand the meaning of the word.
Maybe he’s an infinite layer of paper mache. You dont know!
illiterately.
Maybe because they recognize that the proper term is “papier-mâché”?
Chris Traeger(Rob Lowe)in Parks and Recreation would use the word “literally” that way.Hilarious!
It’s the millennial definition of literally. It used to mean unequivocally or absolutely. The millennials came along and said it also means figuratively.
“Was” is the key word. He can play defense, but his offense never developed like they hoped. A Change of scenery can’t hurt him. But like Frazier, and Andujar before him, its far from a sure thing.
Andujar was a sure thing – but never recovered from the injury & surgery… Frazier was on the cusp of being one but never recovered from the concussions… Florial was rushed to MLB because of Covid and the interruption to his progress set him back but even without so he’s basically a AAAA player.
@28rings: In other words, they were sure things until they weren’t.
no, they were prospects…. sure things are different. like most prospectors searching for gold never found anything.
Morris had a lot of hype as a prospect, but he’s never been able to stay healthy consistently. He’s quite solid in terms of ability. I was a bit disappointed as a Guards fan that Florial is all we got back for him, but I’ll take it.
You will be very happy with Florial playing everyday for a change.
There wasn’t much chance Florial would make the Yankees major league roster, but once they acquired Trent Grisham from the Padres there was no chance.
Florial is a superior defensive center fielder with power and speed. He will always strike out too much and hit for a lower average, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he becomes a very solid everyday player for Cleveland given an extended chance to play. I wish him good luck and regret that he wasn’t able to overcome all of his injuries with the Yankees.
i expected a return of “cash considerations” so this is a win. yankee fans have been following him forever and hoping he’d take the next step but he never lowered his k-rate. good guy, great athlete, i wish him well
“cash considerations” or “international bonus pool money”
It’s like high school recruiting and the “stars” thing – ok to glance at, nothing to take too seriously. Like seriously, what are the credentials of the people doing the ranking – the didn’t play or weren’t any good, couldn’t graduate to the big leagues of writing like covering a college or pro team and are resigned to ranking kids for Internet clicks. Maybe it’s not fair to compare baseball the high school recruiting because it’s that bad. Just a thought feel free to roast me
No one wants to play for the Yankees voluntarily. Judge should have signed with the dodgers. He’s stuck like Trout on a team that no one wants to play for.
They gave him over 300 million reasons.
I was hoping for Shane Bieber & Emmanuel Clase back.
Yanks are stupid. NEVER trade an everyday player for a situational reliever. Indians traded Brian Giles for Ricardo Rincon….ask John Hart
Florial hasn’t proven that he’s an everyday player.
He will never be nothing more than a fourth outfielder.
Morris is a great pickup if he can stay healthy.
Morris is a very good arm but even minor injuries become long DL stays. Has stuff to be high leverage reliever or mid rotation arm but just can’t get on the field.
@DarkSide830: Lots of guys would be great pickups if they could stay healthy.
Even more would be if they could throw strikes or hit the curveball.
Interesting, Florial was once a well regarded prospect so I could see why the Guardians would take a chance on him. I was surprised to see he has never played more than 20 games at the Major League level. He can’t be much worse than Myles Straw right? The Yankees get a prospect for a guy who clearly wasn’t in their immediate plans, could be a good move for both parties involved!
Not really a prospect acquisition for the Yankees. He is 27 and has some experience. Surprised they gave up Florial for a minimal return though. Guess it is a depth trade ro get another fresh arm for the rotation or bullpen.
Suggest this means Yankees remain in on Bellinger. Kiermaier’s off the table but Belli always made sense if they whiffed on the really big fish, which they did.
They have Judge, Soto, Verdugo, and Grisham in the OF with Stanton at DH…. Unless they plan to play Bellinger at 1B and use Rizzo off the bench why would they remain in on Bellinger?
No they won’t be. All signs point to them starting with Soto in RF, Judge in CF, and Verdugo in LF. And then there is Dominguez coming off the shelf this summer.
The Yankees are concentrated on pitching upgrades at this point. They already got 3 left handed hitters this off-season so there’s no need to spend $200m on a position that’s already solidified.
I don’t think trading for Soto and Verdugo is considered whiffing on the big fish.
You kidding right? Vertudo could be dealt or Soto goes to DH and Stanton to the bench. Perhaps Stanton waives his no trade clause knowing his days as everyday player are over.
@Anthony… Judge called Verdugo as soon as the trade was finalized. Verdugo shaved his beard right away. The man is excited to be playing for the “enemy” and motivated in his walk year. The chances of him being dealt are slim I’d say this offseason. Perhaps at the trade deadline when Dominguez comes back.
And Dominguez should be back around the AS break.
Judge should be in right. He won’t stay healthy in center. They probably should trade for or sign a centerfielder move Judge to right and play Soto in left. They can use Verdugo as a 4th outfielder if he’s not part of a trade to get a centerfielder.
@cuffs They already have an excellent CF in Trent Grisham who was part of the Soto trade. Playing Judge in CF is the best option offensively and defensively until Dominguez returns. Verdugo and Soto will play the corners. That leaves Grisham and Oswaldo Cabrera off the bench.
Judge can play center well.The problem is that the demands of the position will cause him to miss 40 or 50 games a year. Last year ĝate injury was directly cause by him being in Center.
Cuffs: He was injured while playing right field last season.
@cuffs It’s a valid point. CF is more physically demanding. I think Boone will give him a lot more DH days to rest. Stanton can spot start in the OF as well and there’s no sense in babying him. He’ll either get hurt one way or another or not at all.
Yankees made Florial available to the league for free last year and no one took him
But that was in the spring when every team was crunched for roster space. and sending guys down.
He’s 25 years old. still a prospect or suspect?
26. That prospect shine on him disappeared over three years ago. I hope Cleveland can make some good use of him since the Yankees has had no plans for him.
tantalizing skills but he’s had 2000 minor league at-bats to lower his k-rate and hasn’t done it
You just can’t get much for a guy who only hit in the upper levels as a repeater. Once you get the dreaded AAAA tag…
Still, Cody Morris’ upside is 5 good starts, then he’s out for 2 months.
Yankees had 9 outfielders on the 40 man roster. Someone had to go. Florial was out of options, and was at best 5th on the depth chart, 6th if you count Jasson, 7th if you consider Stanton might play now and again. And that’s not counting he still could have been beat out by two guys who will might end up at AAA, Pereira and Cabrera. On the other end, Cody Morris stands a really good chance of making the ML bullpen, and still has two options left if he doesn’t.
And the Yanks forgot to trade him at the _____ deadline for key pieces for an October run.
@More Relievers: Straw has batted .244 and accrued 7.8 WAR since 2018.
A lot of players don’t reach that level, so of course Florial can be worse than Straw. Significantly worse.
@blue baron
I get your point but straw has an ops under .600 in more than a 1,000 ABs since 2022. At that point I really don’t care how good your defense is. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think Fiorial can hit better than that.
@More Relievers: Unless and until he proves he can consistently hit MLB pitching, it’s a big stretch.
Not really considering his career .609 OPS in the short time in the majors is already better. He had an ops in the .800s in triple last year. What is your definition of a “big stretch”? You don’t think he can have an ops over one of the 5 worst hitting players last season with an ops on the .500s? Interesting.
Florial has -0.1 WAR in 115 ABs.
Straw has 7.8 WAR in 1,760 ABs.
Until Florial puts up similar numbers over at least 1,500 ABs, there is no basis to compare the two, which makes it a huge stretch.
Why do you have such a hard-on for Straw?
The Yankees didn’t think he could.
You obviously don’t get that WAR is game dependent. There is scant chance Florial, if given 1760 AB’s going forward, won’t meet or exceed Myles Straw. And that’s all CLE fans care about, what happens from this point onward. Trust me, Myles Straw has had many negative WAR stretches of 115 AB’s in his past and will have many more in his future. Insinuating that Florial’s WAR over a mere 115 AB’s in the majors can be extrapolated to compare with Straw is the worst kind of analysis.
But it’s true unless and until he proves otherwise. He must first play well enough to earn all the opportunities those ABs represent.
Assuming anything can be extrapolated from nothing doesn’t even qualify as real analysis so much as wishful thinking.
Please find me one minor league season where Myles Straw came anywhere close to hitting .284/.380/.565/.945 across an entire minor league season where he was younger than the average player in the league like Florial did last year.
Please, find me one. Now look at what Straw has “hit” the last two years in the majors. And recognize that while Florial may not carry Straw’s glove, he’s still recognized as a gifted defender.
Please, don’t try and tell CLE fans that there is any risk here. Straw has been godawful.
Doesn’t matter what Straw did in the minors. He’s done enough in the majors to earn some PT in Houston and Cleveland. That’s more than can be said for Florial.
You have no idea how each player is regarded for personal attributes such as work habits and coachability. These things inform PT decisions as well.
What has Straw done to you to make you want him replaced by a more marginal guy like Florial?
Because Straw shouldn’t even be close to an everyday player. Florial has more upside and is still a good defender even if he hits slightly better than Straw (which most players do)
First of all I don’t have a “hard on” for straw , he seems like a very good person and I want him to succeed. Secondly, I’m talking about the past two seasons and OFFENSE, you can talk about career war all you want but I’m talking about the player he has been of recent, if you do want to talk about career WAR I’d like to remind you that his WAR is almost certainly caused by his fantastic defence and base running ability, everyone knows that he has a great glove, but that’s not what this conversation is about. Thirdly, his numbers have dipped down even farther since he joined cleveland. I have no idea why you think it’s a “big stretch” for this guy to have an ops over .590, almost every player in the league does. By no means am I saying that Fiorial is going to be this all star offensive powerhouse all im saying is he’ll probably put up less abysmal OFFENSIVE numbers than straw. Huge stretch I know.
Straw has proven he can no longer hit big league pitching. A sub .600 OPS over his last 1000 abs really drives that home. He’s a defensive replacement/pinch runner.
Aside from his 250 PA’s after first coming to Cleveland he hasn’t shown much of anything with the bat in the bigs. They extended him too early and have to pay the money.
The Guards don’t have sure bets at 2/3 outfield slots. Aside from Kwan, there’s nobody that should have a guaranteed spot in their OF.
Then it sounds like they need to make a move for a more substantial player. Florial certainly won’t move any needles.
Very true, except the Guardians seem to be content with having a terrible offense almost every year
@blue baron
I’m certainly not arguing that, Cleveland should most definitely be adding major league pieces, it seems like every year they have a couple decent bats and then a bunch of subpar bats. Florial probably won’t be anything too substantial but at least they didn’t give up much. Good talking to you Blue!
Problem with Florial is his whiff rates in the minors. He’s also 26 now so not so much a prospect any more.
That being said, he’s fast and has some power when he connects. And can play anywhere in the OF.
Trade makes perfect sense for the Yankees who just got Grisham and traded away a bunch of SP/RP to the Padres.
I do think this is a good move for both players though. Neither were likely in their former teams plans
nice move by Cashman to get SOMETHING for Florial (after he cleared waivers last spring)… Morris has 2 option years remaining so he can be called up to either spot start in case of injury or a doubleheader or help out the bullpen when they’re overtaxed.
Except that Cody Morris isn’t a starter or a closer. He’s a 2 out reliever and not a very good one and is injured often, same as all Yankees.
Should have included him in the Padres deal. Padres need a center fielder and also need lefty hitters.
He’s out of options so he’d either be breaking Padres camp or DFA’d. I’m not so sure Florial is a MLB regular and the Padres were probably thinking the same.
Padres have very little depth. They could use him he wouldn’t have to start.
Its amazing how the same is true of Kelenic, but Braves fans talk about five years of control instead of waiting for a DFA. The difference is Florial was never given an opportunity, while Kelenic has had many and failed each time.
@stymeedone: The other difference is that Kelenic is considered to have a higher ceiling than Florial.
Yeah because he’s been given so many at bats to prove himself as a regular? Smh
Probably because he’s considered to have greater potential.
Ok CaptJudge, it’s not like the Yankees had a plethora of OFs to where Florial wasn’t given a fair shot. Now we have to deal with him in Cleveland. Thanks.
Padres have a roster crunch.
@Exile the Padres do not have a roster crunch at all. They only have 34 players on their 40 man roster and only 2 of them are OF (Tatis, Azocar). Most teams have a full 40 players rostered right now.
SD consolidated talent by trading prospects for MLB talent but a lot of those players are leaving via FA. Now they have so much open roster space that they’re waiver claiming their former prospects when they get DFA’ed (Marcano, Patino).
The Padres should have asked for one of the 3 top young Yankees OF prospects in that Soto deal.
Can’t understand that.
Yankees wanted Soto badly.
It would not have killed the deal.
I wanted the Guardians to put Morris in the bullpen full-time because his stuff could go from really good to downright great in shorter stints, and because he’s had huge problems staying healthy. He can probably be a solid high-leverage guy, but he’s probably a backend starter if they leave him in the rotation. Tons of upside though.
I’m not entirely sure what makes the Guardians think they can unlock Florial when they’re not exactly good at developing most of their own hitters, but he’s still young and obviously worth taking a chance on because the tools are still there. Maybe a change of scenery helps him too. They already have way too many lefty bats, but most of them aren’t great so at this point I’m not about to get too picky.
Florial is out of options and they picked up that 3rd baseman in the Rule 5 draft. Assuming they see it as a low risk move if they don’t work out?
Obviously, they gave up on Cody Morris. Like you, I thought he could develop into a great bullpen arm. With options still remaining, he seems like the better bet to keep around, but I haven’t really understood the Guardians’ moves this year.
My takeaway from this is that they weren’t sold on Morris (whether it was because of his health or otherwise) and wanted to at least take a chance on a hitter. Florial and De Los Santos both seem like low risk cheap flyers that they’re taking a chance on, but I doubt they expect either of them to be legitimate contributors. I think they’re just throwing a few options at the wall to see if any of them can stick.
That’s exactly what they’re doing. Florial is just another OF in the mix who can’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag. Maybe they’ll include him in another deal, but they need 2 right-handed bats who can drive in runs, and Florial does nothing to fill that need.
As if “two right-handed bats who can drive in runs” grow on trees. The entire league is turning over rocks trying to find guys like that to trade for, sign, or develop. Wake up…these guys are rare, and you think we’re finding two?!?
I think the Ben Lively Major League deal made this move happen. Morris became expendable. I thought Morris was going to be in the bullpen this year. Guess not
@ Michael Chaney
There is zero evidence that being a bullpen arm rather than a starter has any affect whatsoever on “preserving” a pitcher’s health. You could just as easily argue the opposite. The truth is Cody Morris is immensely talented, but can’t stay on the field. Florial is a supremely talented, but flawed hitter. It’s a completely logical deal for both teams.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35040985/
There’s a study.
This was a minor league study, where pitchers are handled entirely differently than they are in the major leagues. There’s really no comparison in their usage whatsoever.
Apart from that, the study found there was no difference between starting and relieving with respect to elbow injuries, but there was one with regard to shoulder injuries? At best this study was preliminary and not conclusive with respect to pitcher roles. Regardless, any conclusions are not applicable to the major leagues where usage and physical maturity come into play as significant contributory factors.
Florial for Morris and Jose Ramirez? Florial big time Yankees prospect. Maybe the Yanks can throw in Stanton to offset the funds.
If you’re joking, well played. If you’re serious, please seek help.
Take a guess there Michael! My name should give it away…
It’s very hard to tell nowadays so I gave you the benefit of the doubt but I wasn’t sure at all lol
And maybe you can lay down the bail to get Wander Franco out of jail? If you can do that I’d be impressed.
Or just acquire a bunch of juice heads to win a world series like in 09. Funny how every since the league has really cracked down on roids, the Yankees haven’t even been back to a world series. Def not a coincidence or anything right?
Probably could’ve gotten Ramirez or Soto for Floral, Andujar and Frazier 2.5 years ago. What a waste of top prospects.
Maybe he is a part for other moves? Does not seem like he adds value to what they already have and they don’t open a 40 spot. Cant see him making the 26 so why?
I agree he’s not making the OD roster. I’m probably dreaming here, but maybe this signals that they’re planning to move Straw in another deal. Florial is basically a lefty version of Straw. Can’t see a platoon because neither one of them can hit.
Cashman needs to get Blake Snell or Corbin Burnes and it’ll be a good off season. Cashman still needs to get another pitcher or else the Soto deal will be trivial as they need another pitcher to supplement Cole
Not Snell for sure. And they’ve spent so much prospect capital I’d be surprised if they make a deal for a front line starter.
Snell just won his 2nd Cy Young. You’d rather have Montgomery? Talk about overrated
Snell by far has the nastier stuff, but a lot of fans prefer Monty because: 1) he’s already been tested in New York, and 2) he can go deeper into games. Snell doesn’t usually last past the 6th inning.
That being said, I’d be OK with either one of them. This team needs starters.
All Yankee fans hated Montgomery and called him average up until this year when he had a miraculous and fluky post season. He’s always sucked and has a history of giving up lots of runs and hits.
Some team is going to pay him a contract for a rarely spectacular season and whichever team it is will be eating the contract or packaging him with a prospect to salary dump
When the Yankees got Stanton he had just won the NLMVP. How has that worked out?
Since I am a Yankees fan, “all Yankees fans hated Montgomery and called him average” is a load of BS. I nor many of my fellow Yankees fans ever felt that way.
Stanton had a history of injuries
I got news for you about Montgomery. He’s still averaged at best. Just had a good postseason run I promise you he will come back down to earth as soon as he signs a lucrative deal with a team that’s going to overpay him.
So does Snell
Finally someone with a brain
Snell has more CYs than Cole. Doesn’t make him better.
I never said anything about Cole nor did this have to do with comparing Snell to anyone else
An ERA over 6 with the Yankees is proven? ChatGPT, is that you?
Most of us were questioning the logic behind those the Months and Montgomery – and with good reason.
He proved he could be a better than solid #3 and I felt like every time he went out there they had a chance to win.
He’s always sucked
=====================
How about the career 116 ERA+? Does that suck?
How about the the 121+ over the past three years? Does that suck?
He is the prototype of a #2. Throws a lot of innings. Has a good ERA. Is pretty consistent.
Regardless of whether one thinks they should go after Snell, it is highly unlikely that they will, given his contract expectations, Yankees remaining needs, and his agent. For the same general reason (length of desired contract coupled with costs) I highly doubt a Hader deal.
In my humble opinion, I would suggest a high leverage reliever (I’ve always been a huge fan of a Jordan Hicks to the Yankees, especially under Blake’s tutelage, although I understand the risk).
The Yankees will not pay for Snell, imo, whether you feel they should or not. To be clear, I am not a fan of a Snell acquisition at his expected contract – I think he has a strong possibility to be an albatross and the Yanks have/had too many of those.
What I can see occurring is a Monty pickup for the right price (he’s a solid #3 or #4 guy for most rotations), or an acquisition of someone with higher potential that hasn’t met said potential recently, such as a Cease (but the prospect price is too high right now), or Bieber.
(he’s a solid #3 or #4 guy for most rotations)
=========================
By definition, a #3 will have a league average ERA and a league-average # of innings. Monty exceeds both those.
Good point, JoeBrady. He should be a solid #2 then with #3 as a regression level.
It’s at the point where Florial was entirely blocked except for fill in work and was never going to get the AB’s or starts to establish himself- he has never been given that chance. Guys like Oswaldo Cabrera and a few other less hyped prospects have been given way more time to establish themselves while mostly scuttling after spring training, than Florial has gotten in total,
Florial is clearly not the kind of player the Yankees thought he’d become, so even if he does establish himself and peak, I am guessing he will be, at best, a 2.0 WAR, .250 average, 15 HR type of player.
On a mid-level team like the Guardians, Florial will be given the time and support to establish himself and becoming a average or just slightly above average player could give him a real career- whereas on the Yankees he’s been designated Quadruple-A and that’s all he’d ever be.
good trade for the Guardians. like Morris but totally worth a flyer on Floral after he hit a career high in HR in the minors last year. now that clearly came as a result of selling our for power as his MLB stats from last season show, but if they can find a guy who can be a 270avg, 15/15 guy that could be useful. certainly more than Straw
Honestly, with his stellar defense even a .250 guy with 15/15 is a steal. Not too many of those floating around MLB right now.
The odds of Florial hitting .250 at the MLB level at about 0.1%. If a club felt that was possible, they would have picked him up for free when he went through waivers.
Guards got an outfielder! Only need 17 more. Then if they all hit exactly 1 hr each they will Match last year!
Better return for the Yankees than expected. Good gamble for both teams.
Yeah, Florial had no chance of playing time on the big league team, and with Cleveland he’s going to be given every opportunity to do so.
You’ve never been more correct. Hopefully Florial tears it up for the Guardians.
The problem with the deal is that Cody Morris gets hurt so much he has no upside. I don’t expect Florial to turn into a competent regular but it’s not impossible.
It is impossible for Morris to stay on the field enough to return that much value.
It’s a fair trade and both side have no risks.
That would only be true if both players had no value.
Unless you like just giving things away, of course.
Good for him (Florial). As long as he was a Yank he was never going to get a chance. For some reason he was on the bad boy list. He’s a five tool guy who has never had more than a few dozen ABs in the majors. Strikes out, yes. But also has power. And speed. And good defense. Could amount to something and is a good pickup by the Guardians.
@Rollo Martins Florial didn’t get a chance because he didn’t make one.
He strikes out 30% of the time at AAA. That translates to 35% in the majors, even before scouting reports make the rounds, which means he’s not putting the ball in play enough to be even a bad major league hitter.
The Yankees told him he’d get a chance if could cut down the K rate, but he never did. It’s always around 30% in AAA. They didn’t expose him in the majors because there was no point wrecking what modest value he still had (cf Cody Morris).
Can the Guardians help him get it under control? Maybe, but at 26 it’s doubtful. He’d be a rare hitter to make zero progress on the thing that’s keeping him in AAA, then to suddenly turn that around in his mid-20s. The Guardians have to hope the Yankees just weren’t teaching him properly.
He is not a 5 tool guy lol. He has a career k rate of 30% in the minors at the AAA level. That is a kiss of death for any player.
I wonder how many names over the years the Yankees could have had if not for the hesitancy to include can’t miss Florial.
One-third of a name?
Florial didn’t get out of A ball until he was 23, and it was a weak year, something like 219/310/420 with a 30% K rate. He was limp in 2019 in high A. At what point was he going to get a fabulous return from a team that was paying attention—the 2017-2018 offseason was probably the only time.
Love this deal. The Yankees get a pitcher with three above average pitches for Florial, a post-hype prospect at best.
Our pitching coaches excel at raising a player’s floor and acquiring guys like Morris plays to that strength. Now Cashman needs to take a page from Stearns across the bridge (indeterminate) and start building out the 40 man roster with some volume acquisitions. Relying on players of Calhoun or Bauer’s caliber again is not a viable option.
This team needs a serious wakeup call over the depth issue and how much other hitters’ production was dependent on Judge’s presence last year. I was ok with an overpay for a contact hitter like Verdugo, but smashing the piggybank for Soto, another power hitter with declining range in the field, was moronic.
Is this guy trolling? Gotta be
Don’t look in the mirror when you type, pride boy.
He doesn’t understand that they aren’t paying any more for Soto than they did the completely useless Josh Donaldson, who had a total commitment last year of $31MM. They’ve spent less money on offense this year by getting Soto and letting the offensively anemic players walk, but raised their offensive production by 300% or more.
Soto is projected for $33 million this year before the luxury tax bill. I guess our definitions of “less” are just different.
Okay, what about the other bats they let walk? You just discounting those? And, do you really think the possible 2MM for Juan Soto over Donaldson is not negligible? What MLB are you watching….
Oh, and you said, “breaking the piggybank” for Soto… for $2MM?! Seriously? I guess we have a different definition of a lot of things….
Soto, Verdugo and Grisham are all projected for higher salaries than Donaldson, IKF and Bader respectively. The team is a repeat luxury tax offender which increases the rate. The team has crossed a new luxury tax tier which will raise the rate on a portion of payroll higher. By any measure payroll increased.
Okay, you said smashing the piggy bank for Soto, but let’s dissect this based on projected numbers:
Soto: $33MM; Verdugo $9MM; $4.5MM for a total of… $46.5MM
Now, let’s look at the other hitters:
Donaldson: $31MM; IKF: $6MM; Bader: $5.5MM for a grand total of………. $42.5MM!!!!
A $4MM difference…. Really?!!!! Gimme a break, man. And that’s NOT including Floral ($720K), Bauers ($720K), and Higgy, ($1.5MM). Include them and you’re at $45.5 MM. Then dead weight like Cordero? How about Calhoun? Goodness, guy, it’s a losing argument all day.
Again, “breaking the piggybank” is a joke. It’s a negligible difference and the anticipated production has skyrocketed.
I should have clarified it as the young pitching piggybank. I do not approve of the front office’s current strategy of repeatedly trading large quantities of young talent for a single player. Cashman has weakened the rotation, bullpen, bench and farm system to fix the outfield.
Verdict was a justifiable overpay given the black hole in LF. Soto remains an elite power hitter, but his defense is declining precipitously. Cashman has tried this formula enough times to know better. There doesn’t appear to be any learning curve in the Bronx.
DankYank: on your points here, we completely agree. It is borderline criminal how Cashman has developed the Yankees roster. He has performed horribly, imo, which has necessitated significant overlays in both prospects and money to simply maintain a winning club.
Also, you are including luxury tax calculations for Donaldson(it was $25 million, not $31 million per Spotrac), while excluding them for Soto, Verdugo and Grisham. As discussed earlier, rates will be significantly higher.
Jeimer Candelario is a switch hitter with strong platoon splits from both sides of the plate. Unlike DJLM, he doesn’t derive his value as a hitter from Judge’s presence in a lineup; Cashman made absolutely no effort to sign him.
To clarify, the $31MM figure was his $25 + the $6MM buyout figure, which they owed him.
Nonetheless, yeah, DJwas popular, but not a good signing, imo. We didn’t need DJ, we needed pitching and guys like Harper or a true 3B like Machado. But, for the same money they paid DJ, they could’ve paid JT Realmuto, who was needed far more than another aging IFer.
Cashman has repeatedly made terrible decisions with signings and we shouldn’t need Soto at all. We shouldn’t have Stanton, we shouldn’t have DJ, we shouldn’t have had to deal with Hicks for so long. It’s been a perpetual cycle of bad contracts, or contracts to players we didn’t need.
Cashman should’ve been fired, imo. His acquisition of Soto is certainly not redeeming. He’s missed more than he’s landed.
@dankyank Agreed. Dealing significant value for the right to pay $33m for a 4-5 WAR DH in 2022-23 who’ll be put in the OF because he has leverage, was the embodiment of Cashman’s “look busy” style of GM’ing—the same approach that led the Yankees to lunge at Rodon last year. That Cashman actually traded away pitching this offseason after Rodon cratered, Cortes’ collapsed, and German departed, is bizarre.
Couple this to dealing Montgomery for the production of a backup OFer and there’s something seriously wrong with how Cashman thinks about the value of pitching.
You can’t get most people to actually think about the Soto deal. Without Grisham it’s close to a fiasco, particularly for a team whose pitching is in serious decline.
Jack: You do realize the biggest area of failure for the Yankees, thus their biggest needs are offense and LH hitters, right? So acquiring one of the best LH hitters in the league for the same as what we paid Donaldson you feel is…..bad?
But that wasn’t even the argument. It’s not whether they should’ve acquired Soto for those prospects- his argument is that it was “breaking the bank for Soto” which it’s clearly not. He just refuses to accept it.
Back on your point, the fact that the Yankees are in this position of need in the first place is because they repeatedly cut corners to save on their finances, hence needing to pay more now. Regardless, if they don’t pay, they end up with the same production which has been subpar and cost them any shot at advancing.
No point in using facts to dispel someone’s own narrative full of strong biases.
Now watch the Guardians trade Naylor and get rid of the only other power bat they have
Neither player will likely amount to much. Florial has been the typical overhyped Yankee prospect and Cody Morris just can’t stay healthy. I would have kept Morris, but I trust the Guardian front office..
Florial legitimately looked good for about a year. Say mid-2017 to mid-2018, when the bloom began coming off the rose. As a 19 yo he excelled in A ball except for the K rate closing on 30%.
Then he fluffed 2019, saw no action in 2020, and was weak in 2021. I wonder how much the missing minors in 2020 cost him?
I don’t think 2020 matters that much. Many prospects of the era missed that season. His level today is relevant and it’s not high level.
Maybe Cleveland thinks there is potential to unlock. Just as maybe, their front office collects LH batting OFs.
I don’t see how/where Florial fits. Possibly they trade Straw for… well,.. to…uh, in a package to dump his salary ! Then….no…I don’t see it. Period.
I can see Morris making NY bullpen and pitching 55-75 innings.
Suck for suck. Great trade.
2021
Morris threw 61 IP.
2022
45 IP
2023
47 IP
No matter how good you may be, you are no good when you can’t play.
Florial has piled up a lot of XBHs in AAA….134 in 1124 at bats, along with 77 SBs in 280 games.
He hasnt gotten much opportunity in NY, 115 at bats over three seasons….and he wouldn’t get any if he remained there.
Either he is a AAAA player…a bust prospect…or he is legit. In Cleveland he will find out, although just about the last thing the Guardians lineup needs is another LH bat.
From either POV…meh.
Also florial play up until last month of last season was sporadic at best .. he would get a week then sent down then come back up for a couple days maybe one or two at bats and def fill in then sent back down.
While he didnt show himself in mlb they never really gave him an opportunity, but the funny thing the Yankees have had other top prospects that produced the same if not worse and got those 60 at bats within a monthish and not over 3 years and they produced even less. I think he just was in the doghouse for some reason.
Will he be great im guessing not as his development was all over the place, but i think he could be a regular atleast 4th or def outfielder if not better
I love the trades the yanks have made this offseason. They moved some controllable players but it was for a top talent in Soto. Then moved some post hype overrated prospects in Trey Sweeney and Florial and got back a lefty infielder (Vivas), a lefty RP (Victor Gonzalez), and a young pitcher (Morris) they can use as a swingman and transition into a starter.
This makes zero sense from the Yankees side. Surely they could’ve received a better offer elsewhere.
For a guy who already passed through waivers and no one wanted?????
Yep.
@Stl fan Soto is a 4-5 win DH unaccountably playing the OF. The Yankees have lost, traded, or watched seriously decline 4 starting pitchers since the 2022 season, and just threw King,two useful MLB arms, and their best AA starter on the bonfire of Soto’s $33m borderline stardom.
A shockingly bad deal for the Yankees unless they plan to spend another $50-60m on pitching for 2024.
Borderline stardom? The dude gets on base at a .421 clip and slugs north of .550. I gotta know how it feels to just argue for the sake of arguing. It really has to suck for that to be the way you entertain yourself.
Soto is an interesting case. He’s probably one of the most over rated, but still really good players I’ve seen. He’s a very good hitter, but as Jack mentions, he’s a dh who has no business in the field. As soon as his bat starts to slip, his value craters (Even with a very good wRC+ of 145 in 2022 he was a only a 4 win player). Due to age, he probably will get a deal around $500m/15 years, but I wouldn’t want my team to go anywhere near that.
Morris started off good when he first got called up from Cleveland but sense last 2 years injury bug has cought up to home. Last 2 yrs he has had high era and has walked alit of batters.
2 change of scenery guys. Morris has good stuff but couldn’t stay healthy long enough to secure a job whether pen or rotation. Florian should easily surpass Straw on the depth chart.
Morris? Man the Yankees stink. They can’t sign anyone. No one wants to play for the Yankees voluntarily. They can only trade for scrubs. 6.75 era? How does that help?
The trolls are out in force on this one, geez.
They usually are.
Also a bunch of other guys who like Florial. I’m glad that this chapter of the book is over.
I like Florial too. I thought the Yankees should’ve played him everyday over the likes of Calhoun/Cordero, if for nothing else than because he put his time in and wasn’t far (if at all) behind their production. But facts are facts, and he couldn’t hit ML pitching consistently.
I can’t believe the number of people defending him and calling the Soto deal an overpay.
But, who do you guys see as the next acquisition? Who would you prefer? Bieber, Cease, Hicks, Hader, someone else?
I’d love it if we sign Snell or Montgomery, then Hicks, and heck, might as well get Hader too.
My realistic guess is we’ll trade for Bieber, sign Hicks plus another pen arm, and then round out with roster invites.
@Clip The brass thought otherwise. He was banished to AAA similar to when they did the same to Kei Igawa. He couldn’t handle major league hitters. I dunno, man… I’m kind of bummed out about YY like you are. If they sign Hicks or Hader, I think they’re just gonna roll with what we’ve got. Maybe bring back Montas. I’d love for them to trade for Burnes it’s really going decimate the farm.
Yeah, I agree with you guys. I’m thinking it’s going to be either Bieber, Montas or Monty and Hicks, at the most. I don’t see a Cease trade due to the asking price.
As bad as the Montas experiment was, I think if / when healthy, he could be an excellent 4 or 5. But he HAS to e healthy, and shoulders are finicky.
Alright, Yankees fans.. what do you think of Florial’s defense and arm?
Florial has always sported great defense and a solid arm. He’ll be a good late-inning replacement.
The Guardians got themselves a bargain.
Still a good prospect, if they can get Florial to drop his k rate under 20%, they have a potential star.
He hasn’t been a prospect for YEARS. After 8 years in minor league ball he has never dropped his K rate below 30%. Now he is going to do it at 26 at the MLB level? They had a chance to have Florial for FREE and they passed.
You have a better chance of being a star than Florial.
Just get Wonder Franco. Who cares if he slapped someone a few times it’s not like he slept with a minor.
I’m not a fan of Cashman at all…..but one thing this regime has done well is grab relievers nobody wanted anymore and turn them into studs. Hope this is more of the same.
Too bad those studs couldn’t prevent those 80 loses last year
They had the top bullpen ERA in the majors, moron. This is another pen piece.
I swear, some of the ignorant children on here just come to vent their PMS.
Maybe with better coaching and a team that believes in him he will blossom
Remember the Yanks thought Monty was not a great pitcher
They didn’t believe in him since the Guardians could have gotten Florial for free on waivers and didn’t want him.
You have no proof of what you are saying
They may not have been able to grab him or they just missed the opportunity
Why did they give up a player if they don’t believe in him
@deej
This is a tiresome argument many Yankee fans are making here. Waivers are always circumstantial, dependent on time of year and the roster situations teams face. And Florial was not coming off a full AAA season of .284/.380/.565/.945 last spring was he? You put him on waivers now, and that guy’s getting claimed, so please, no more ridiculous references to “no one wanting him.” Florial was still younger than the average AAA player last year and performed pretty well. Whether any of it translates to the majors is anyone’s guess.
Tuna Sandwiches for dinner..In case anyone was wondering.
P.S. With crinkle cut fries.
I have a feeling Florial is gonna be a monster for cleveland. He tore up the minors last season and barely got a shot with the Yankees. This may be a very regrettable trade for New York.
One can only hope. But my optimism is guarded; I mean, why didn’t the Yankees give him any kind of extended shot? Their outfield play was terrible and I would have thought they’d want to give him one last look. Since they didn’t, I can only conclude their deep thinkers believe he’s got nothing to offer.
He has some tantalizing tools, but strikes out waaaaay too much, which includes his minor league ABs. If they can get him to make more contact somehow, he will be a good pickup. He strikes out too much for the Yankees and they don’t care about strikeouts.
He’s got excellent defense, a good arm, and a lot of pop though.
He’s always been a tool shed with one fatal flaw. Can’t recognize a breaking pitch. Mid 20s, repeating AAA for a third time, and still K’ing at a 30% rate.
More than I thought they’d get for Florial, who now enters the Greg Allen phase of his career.
I feel like greg allen may be offended
He doesn’t look too happy about going to the Guarindians!
Another “can’t miss” Yankees prospect “flames out” and is dealt for a few cases of beer and peanuts.
?!
No surprise here.
Pleas,e someone post all the MLB Trade deals that Cashman refused to complete .because he would not include future Hall of Famer Estevan Florial in the deal?!
(And similar Yankees prospects Cashman was hoarding instead of getting producing players back who could have helped the NYY win more games)…
CLE traded a lottery ticket for a lottery ticket, but it would have made more sense if florial hit RH.
How do we continue to have top 50 prospects and higher ranked prospects, especially hitters, who on a regular basis totally collapse the moment they get to the big leagues and then they’re done?!
Yanks “hot” prospects R super over hyped n manufactured 2B glossy, dripping w/potential “…next mantle”, best run organizations know their own players real value most of all n dont fall victim into believing their own inflated hot air PR, given cash-mans reverse midas touch w/transactions last decade or so I like Florial 4 AL ROY now
I guess the Guardians answer to the no-clout outfield is quantity over quality