In the midst of a season that has been an unmitigated disappointment for Blue Jays fans where the club has fallen to last place in the AL East and sold off pieces at the trade deadline, club president and CEO Mark Shapiro spoke to reporters including Sportsnet’s Ben Nicholson-Smith and MLB.com’s Keegan Matheson about the club’s plans for 2025 and beyond.
Shapiro did not mince words while describing the organization’s failures this season and acknowledged that the team’s performance this year has represented the “biggest disconnect from expectations” he’s overseen during his tenure at the helm of the club, which began in August of 2015. Even as he called this season the “biggest disappointment” of his time in Toronto, however, Shapiro seemed disinclined to entertain parting ways with GM Ross Atkins. While he prefaced his comments by emphasizing that he does not comment on his employees’ job statuses while the season is ongoing, he also made a general case for continuity within the organization:
“I’m a huge believer in stability and continuity and those are competitive advantages in professional sports,” Shapiro said, as relayed by Matheson. “Reacting and changing don’t necessarily mean improvement. We need to be better. We have to be better. Stability, continuity and making adjustments are where I’m focused right now.”
Parting ways with Atkins, who has been the club’s GM in each of Shapiro’s nine seasons at the helm in Toronto, would certainly be considered a move away from that message of continuity and stability. The Jays have seen some success with the duo of Shapiro and Atkins making decisions, as they’ve made the playoffs in four of their nine seasons with the club. The team only advanced beyond the Wild Card round of the postseason once, however, and that came all the way back in 2016 during their first season with the club.
Since then, the Blue Jays rebuilt and constructed a young core centered around stars Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette before supplementing that group with veterans such as George Springer and Kevin Gausman. Solid as that strategy may have seemed on paper, however, the results on the field have left something to be desired for a club that has failed to win the competitive AL East even once while going 423-338 since the 2019 season where Guerrero made his MLB debut. Now, both Guerrero and Bichette are entering their final seasons of arbitration eligibility, and the possibility of losing one or both in free agency next winter looms as a distinct possibility.
Of course, it’s possible that Toronto could ink one or both of their stars to an extension before they leave town. Shapiro declined to comment on the possibility of extending specific players, though he did acknowledge that it’s “certainly easier” to build a championship-level roster with players of Guerrero’s and Bichette’s caliber in the fold “for extended periods of time.”
An extension for either player would surely require a considerable financial investment, however. Guerrero in particular has re-established himself as one of the league’s premiere offensive talents this year with a fantastic .317/.391/.537 slash line, 29 doubles, and 22 homers in 112 games this year. With the slugging superstar set to hit free agency following his age-26 season next year, he appears to be in good position to cash in on a significant payday in free agency.
On the other hand, Bichette has dealt with injuries and under-performance this year as he’s been limited to 79 games while slashing just .223/.276/.321. With that being said, he’ll be coming off his age-27 campaign when he’s expected to reach free agency next winter and that combination of youth, a strong offensive track record (he was a career 127 wRC+ hitter entering the 2024 campaign), and his ability to play a premium defensive position should allow the shortstop to do quite well in free agency as long as he rebounds to something closer to his previous career levels in 2025.
Fortunately, the club figures to have plenty of payroll flexibility this winter with which they can look to sign the pair long-term while retooling the rest of the roster. The club’s final payroll is expected to land (per RosterResource) just over $218MM, with their estimated payroll for luxury tax purposes sitting just over $241MM. That’s a little more than $4MM over the first threshold of the competitive balance tax, although it’s worth noting that publicly available payroll estimates are just that. For his part, Shapiro suggested (per Matheson) that the Jays currently expect to come in under that $237MM threshold though he did acknowledge that the situation is “fluid.”
Regardless of where the club ends up in terms of final luxury tax calculations this year, they have plenty of money coming off the books this winter. RosterResource indicates that they have just over $124MM committed for 2025, and while arbitration raises for players like Guerrero and Daulton Varsho figure to push that figure up significantly—the Jays’ 2024 arb class cost the club just over $44MM—even that would leave the club with a payroll in the $170MM range, giving them around $50MM to work with this winter if they match this year’s payroll in 2025. Shapiro was vague about Toronto’s exact plans in terms of payroll for next year, however. While he did say that he doesn’t expect there to be a “large-scale pullback” in payroll, he also notes that the difficult season has impacted the club on the business side of things.
Of course, long-term deals for Bichette and Guerrero wouldn’t necessarily impact 2025’s payroll given that Bichette is already under contract for $17.5MM next year while Guerrero is already expected to command a hefty salary in his final trip through arbitration. That being said, if the Jays have their sights set on retaining either or both of their homegrown duo long-term, it’s easy to see that impacting the club’s willingness to sign other top-of-the-market talents to long-term deals this winter. That could create a complicated puzzle for the club as they attempt to return to contention next year while balancing an apparent desire to retain Guerrero and Bichette long-term against the need for significant upgrades to the current roster.
They both have to go
Huge mistake. Both are generational talents. Assuming you’re basing your comment on Bichette’s down year and constant sky high expectations for Vlad, Jr., you will definitely be disappointed with whatever replaces them.
Bo Bichette is not a generational talent, and sadly, to this point in his career neither has Vlad. Say they’re very good, fan favorites, etc. but in a generation that has Ohtani, Trout, Soto, Judge, Harper, Acuna, Elly, Witt, Betts, Yordan, Gunnar, Julio, and Tucker I’m not sure Bo Bichette stands out as the generational talent.
Ah, but a 25-year-old figuring it out isn’t someone to dismiss because he was less impressive in previous seasons. Vladdy has been improving all season, to the point that he’s been hitting on Judge’s level over the past six weeks or so.
The generational talent we saw in 2021 has re-emerged, and is arguably now even better.
Bichette, not so much. Even at his best, he is very good but great.
Generational talent doesn’t seem to be in the projectional cards, but both are high quality major leaguers.
I don’t think he was talking about vlad and Bo, I think he was talking about atkins and shapiro
And he’s right blue jays ownership should fire both
Reading is not your strength Holden. He was referring to Atkins and Shapiro. Also, generational talents? I guess you do live in a fantasy world. Delete your comment, and the racist ones from a couple days ago to me, and save face.
And grammar is not yours. “They” is a pronoun. With no antecedent, it’s just as likely he meant Vlad and Bichette, as much of the article focuses on their future. Bug off, moron.
You mean the ones where multiple posters identified you as a racist?
Did they, Holden? Bad look not to admit you did what you did. On top of that, you’re calling people names when they had every right to question your baseball acumen. If hatred is what you carry, there is no question here who’s correct.
If the Jays call up Votto, they will exceed the CBT and face stiffer penalties if they try to sign a QO’d free agent
That’s a joke and unnecessary at this point
There is zero reason to call up a 40 year old 1B hitting .212 in the minor leagues. The fact he’s even wasting his time playing still is sad, should have not let his ego get in the way of a young team on the rise (lol, or so they thought heading into this year) & retired as a Red.
When he stresses continuity, I think he’s talking about himself. I don’t think he’s defending Atkins as much as he’s making a public plea to keep his own job.
Not up to the public it’s up to Roger’s and we have no clue how they measure his performance. Maybe they are ok with it who knows? That’s the big problem with corporate ownership. Not a word from Rogers brass ever. Unlike some egomaniac billionaire who wants a WS
Technically it’s an improvement over the years they weren’t even a playoff threat. The focus on FA starting pitching gave them some good years, though not much else has worked out.
Or both, right?
Just listened to this media availability. I don’t think that Shapiro is talking upwards here to save his job. From how I heard it, the continuity bit definitely seems to be about Atkins and maybe other execs but not necessarily about the lower level dudes-the pitching scouts and development staff look to be on shaky footing. At the end of the availability, it sure sounds like Shapiro is confident he has the support of ownership.
He definitely gave himself an out that he could change personnel (such as Atkins) at the end of the season but just doesn’t seem like Shapiro has the appetite for it.
Bleak
“Stability and continuity” is great and all, but that just leads to the ceiling where they got to. There should have been a head that rolled after last season, and that’s after making the postseason. There has to be accountability for the disaster that happened this season, especially since it wasn’t all that unpredictable. The reality is that this team peaked from 2021 to 2023, and although there was a lot of success in those seasons, they still weren’t close enough to the top teams. I don’t think Atkins is the guy to make those decisions to reach the top.
At the very least, I’m expecting a change in approach. This “fun prevention” style of baseball is absolutely horrible. Invest in a bat that will be a contract that is going to age poorly at the end or someone who needs to play a little ugly defense. Don’t be half in half out acquiring 40 year old stopgaps.
If they want to contend next year while Vlad I’d still here play him at 3b as much as possible and hope the D is decent and get another power bat at 1b, DH and OF. Need to think outside of the box but not holding my breath
Vlad shouldn’t play the field. I understand the thinking of squeezing another bat in the lineup with him at third but health and 4 AB’s minimum per game, like schwarber or Yordan is his path to success. Keep him healthy and focused at the plate and minimize any injury potential.
Unless Guerrero cuts the Tim hortons out of his diet he is not fit at all for 3rd
IMO they should treat him like Miguel Cabrera
Treating him like Cabrera would mean moving him to 3B for a big bat, like Prince Fielder. This years equivalent might be signing Pete Alonso
I will “continue” to avoid buying tickets until Shatkins is replaced. I will also “continue” to enjoy my freedom from tv evenings. Once the fans start to wander, it takes double the effort to bring them back. Sorry Front Office…I’m not buying the same old shtick.
He sounds like a politician. Gaslighting the Toronto fan base. Both need to go. At least Atkins. But Shapiro has his fingerprints all over it with his yes man. Came here so he could play with personnel too. Just take care of operations and put Click in as GM at the very least
Shapiro was awful in Cleveland and now in Toronto. Time for him to go and take Atkins with him. Shouldve never let AA go
He won Executive of the Year in 2005 and 2007 in Cleveland. The main criticism was his lack of FA spending, which isn’t within his control as a non-owner. Yes, he lacks a championship as a GM or president, but you can say that about 95% of those who’ve tried. He’s had more success than many.
And AA left on his own accord. He didn’t like his new role. In Atlanta, he’s been a part of an international signing scandal but also built Atlanta to a place where they can spend and win consistently.
AA was not part of the international signing scandal. AA took the job a result of that scandal and he came in having to clean up a lot of the Braves reputation around the league that had been torpedoed by John Coppolella, a young GM who was left unchecked.
AA inherited a great system and severe IFA restrictions and has turned Atlanta into the second or third best franchise in baseball since he took over, behind only the Astros and arguably the Dodgers.
AA wasn’t AA in Toronto, he gave one shot (2015) where they could’ve won it all but sacrificed everything in the future for that one shot and then left for Atlanta when the jays were about to get into a rebuild
Holden Bases the signing scandal is how he got his job in Atlanta. He was with the Dodgers while that was happening. Now that I look that up and see Coppolella has been reinstated by the league, I’d love if they gave him his chance to come back. That organization had such a strong foundation by the time he got banned.
AA was not part of the scandal. He was hired thanks to the opening from said scandal. Rather slanderous to say he was part of something when he was with another organization.
My apologies- that was his gap year with the LA Dodgers. My main point was to say that Toronto didn’t let him go; he left them. He’s an excellent executive- this year, his club has had an absurd amount of injuries.
Apology accepted but you do not know what you are talking about.
AA never sold the future, the guys the Jay’s traded for David Price had a couple.good years, but were out of the league pretty quickly.
And you’ve added nothing to the convo, so similar sentiment.
Shapiro wasn’t awful in Cleveland but he also wasn’t very well liked. Part of that was trading away two reigning Cy Young award winners and coming away with Carlos Carraco and Michael Brantley and then botching the Victor Martinez trade. Granted he hit on Kluber and a few others, but those we “don’t mess this up trades.”
He was/is a poor evaluator of MLB talent. I just don’t think he has what it takes to build a solid year in year out contender.
My man went to the Brendan Shanahan school of telling people I’m gonna fall on my own sword, blaming everyone else for the mistakes made while your in charge and claiming consistency is important even though
Your organization has been consistently middling (hardly making expanded playoff middling) and then brining the band back together next year dispite promising change.
He’s mastered corporate double speak
As long as Shapiro remains, their future is bleak.
I’m not one to crap on Shapiro and Atkins…but Shapiro’s “continuity” comment is fresh coming from the guy who walked in and gave AA a talking to because he didn’t like his approach.
It was referred to as a scolding. And AA’s approach had more success than any of Atkins years in control.
I don’t know if I’d call making the playoffs in four of nine seasons with only one ALCS appearance a good measure of success.
To be honest, if there was a World Series of two teams that always seemed to be a potential contender but never an actual sustainable winner, it’d be a great series between Toronto and San Diego.
I feel like you have to break down their tenure into three sections. The team they inherited, the rebuild, and now trying to compete. It’s hard to credit them too much for the 2016 ALCS, just like it’s hard to fault them for needing to rebuild. 2020 was baby steps, 2021 was good even though they somehow missed the playoffs with 91 wins, and 2022 was good. They then let a bloop single off the bat of JP Crawford pretty much ruin any progress they were making towards building a contending team.
You can fault a team for a questionable rebuild process. You can also fault a team if there was a miscalculation of prospects traded or held too long.
There was more than the bloop single in that 2022 game.
I think the biggest miscalculation under Atkins has been selling off the bats to turn this team into a glove first team. Defense in baseball is overated, there’s about 25 balls put into play a game and 23 of those are routine.
Teoscar, Gurriel, Moreno never should of been traded.
2016 was the 2015 hangover, 2020 they placed 7th out of 8 teams.
There is no need of the 3-section breakdown. The front office didn’t break the glass ceiling whether its philosophy, culture or talent in finding/building talent.
Who would win in a WWE free for all, mark shapiro, Josh Shapiro, or Ben shapiro?
I’m going with Josh. Mark is past his prime, and Ben is a garden gnome.
Putting biases aside
Mark would be the first to exit he has no meat on his bones but Josh and Ben would be a real battle
Josh would probably win Ben is younger but has zero muscle and Josh would have the superior dad strength
Definitely Ben , Josh is a traitor to his own people.
Oh, teddyj! You rascal!
Atkins and Schneider are both likely out the door when the season ends.
They should be and I hope Rogers makes sure that happens. I don’t think Atkins fires his buddy, I think they’re a package deal.
He should be discussing his own future.
shapiro opened his mouth on TV yesterday and Spewed More Lies….!!!
shapiro and his Useless GM atkins must go….!!
‘ Stability and continuity’ are only ‘ a competitive advantage in professional sports’ if you are on a path to continued success and the Jays are on bu such path. It’s fine to build around a couple of young stars like Vladdy and Bo by adding some key vets while your farm system supports that with some solid home grown talent but the Jays are at a place where their farm system is practically barren and a lot of the vets that they added didn’t pan out. George Springer for example is a black hole in the lineup and his contract is taking up too much of the budget. The question is, do you trust Shapiro and Atkins to right the ship? I certainly dont and I don’t think many Jays fans do at all. The entire organization needs to be gutted. There is clearly a lack of good development happening on the farm. Is it scouting or coaching or both? The Jays have had a huge problem with young pitchers having arm troubles going back to even before Shapiro and Atkins. That needs to change now. How long is Paul Walker going to keep his job? He’s been the Jays pitching coach for what? A decade or more? How many hitting coaches have they gone through in that time? A half dozen or more? The problem here is that when you have a team owned by a corporation, they look at the bottom line above all and since Shapiro has the team making lots of profit, it’s easy for them to be satisfied with the job he’s doing. Satisfaction and contentment breeds mediocrity. But from a fans perspective mediocrity breeds dissatisfaction and discontentment. Discontentment leads to a disconnect and then a lack of interest. And I know a bunch of Jays fans who just plain lost interest in the team this year. That will snowball unless the team starts contending again. Most fans of the Jays have loved Vlaady and Bo for a half a decade now….but most would also rather win a world series without them than continue to flounder with them. Vladdy is having a good year, but you have to recognize that he’s a first baseman who isn’t going to hold up well with a 10 year mega contract. Bo is having a bustbof a year but should bounce back to being a top hitter again but even as a top end hitter he’s misplaced as a SS so what should an extension for him look like? There are multiple paths back to contention whether they extend Vladdy and Bo or trade them for other pieces. There are some good bones in the rotation and bullpen to try and compete next season of that’s what they want to do, but they would have to commit the resources towards that and I’m doubtful Rogers would do that coming off a dreadful season. More likely, they retain the status quo while hyping the guys that they have brought up the past couple of seasons and the young players that they recently acquired and have another season of disappointment. Players like Schneider, Clement, Barger and Horwitz all look like platoon/ bench guys. Martinez is suspended and has proved nothing. Kirk is not the answer behind the plate. There is no every day SS on this roster or coming up through the system. Varsho is not developing as a hitter and despite his great defense, is miscast as an every day player. Springer is dead weight. How do you acquire a starting catcher, starting SS and at least two starting OFers to help move this team towards contention without gutting the farm or bloating the payroll too far? I just don’t see Atkins and Shapiro being capable of getting the job done.
Well summarized
Well said and I too am enjoying my jays free evenings this year. As more and more fans begin to drop off, Rogers brass may become less complacent. Shapiro has shown he’s great at a rebuild… unfortunately it’s rogers center and not the team I speak of. Rogers center is done and so too is his job and he should take his trusty little sidekick with him.
He did say Revenues are down, so if the bottom line matters it’s moving in the direction to let him go.
How hard is it to get pitching coaches all through the organization, get the pitchers slow motion video, sit down with them every screw up pitch they have thrown and explain the Grip, Tilt Wrist action so they understand that Football Slider. *Gyro, Sweeper) and then when they understand it tell them how to make adjustments to it?
Hire Roger Beshens Football Slider, Yesterday.
It’s rather funny that certain “Jays fans” come here, make comments about the very front office they enthusiastically supported while trashing people who saw some red flags early on with this regime. Although big credit to JDGoat for continuing to make excuses and raising mediocrity to look like success.
Shapiro did all he could to make it look smooth. Stability and continuity starts with culture. Rogers destroyed it starting in 2001. Scouting needs to be better, development needs to be better, philosophy needs to be addressed, and maybe stop allowing the Keith Law-types to dictate baseball decisions when they are not baseball people. Less calculations and data, as they can be blown to pieces in a variety of ways. Build baseball players.
Jays did a pretty terrible job at the deadline. Honestly should have traded as many assets as possible and kickstarted the rebuild.
I’m with you. What they did was a plan B that could become plan debacle. Because if they are serious about 2025 they need to land two bats and some bullpen arms. Bo should be moved to 2B which will not happen. We are in for some trouble ahead.
I’m a believer Atkins is gone and you need to leave players in place for the new GM. Imagine the mess the new GM would’ve walked into if they sold off everyone. I’m fine trading everyone amd rebuilding, but Ross Atkins shouldn’t have a stranglehold on that process.
What a joke of an owner. Yea let’s just throw the whole team under the boss then hint that the GM is going nowhere. Dude sounds as out of touch as Jerry Jones
Atkins isn’t the owner. Rogers keeps their mouth shut on this.
I hope owners start respecting the American citizen again and stop handing out ridiculous contracts.
We look completely misguided and unfocused to the rest of the world. How can they look to Americans for leadership when we talk about over half a billion dollars for Soto?
It’s a shame what we are doing and no one really seems to care….
It’s a free market. Yes. Despite the vindictive nature of the disciplinary actions MLB employs, it is in essence a free market devoid of any moral compass.
In all honesty. The one that personally I think needs replacing is Atkins. Shapiro in his role as president has actually oversaw infrastructure changes that will support the Jays as an organization for quite some time. Dunedin alone to me would’ve been enough proof of his ability to perform his duties. Atkins however it’s a tried and failed issue. He inherited 2016, tried his philosophy of pitching/defense > offense and it failed. It’s time for a fresh approach/ideas in that position. Other black marks to me were letting Bo/Vlad run this long without extensions (look at other teams young stars) and allowing Schneider to completely wear the playoff disaster last year with zero accountability.
It’s all on shapiro, atkins is his lackie !!
I don’t think Shatkins is anything special, but they haven’t been as bad as folks make them out to be. Bichette & KK took a huge step backwards, and Manoah buried them. Just imho, but I’d give them 2025 to see if they can right the ship. It’s kind of a cut-off year with Vlad and Bo anyway.
Forgot all about Manoah
The problem is that there isn’t much depth to do anything about guys who take a step back. They had almost everything go right for them in 2023, it was hard to see that happening again in 2024. Obviously a good and healthy Bo makes a major difference in a season and would be very hard to replace, but all teams deal with injuries and performance issues. Most teams don’t fall off so drastically all at once because of it.
The guy that commented about depth is the same guy that told Jays fans to “trust the process” for a very long time. Very rich for the guy that questioned those who questioned the front office over the very depth that’s been exposed for 3+ years has had an about face when it is safe to do so.
Joe, the Jays problem is Boston is not a weak team, Tampa can still make noise in 2025, Baltimore is loaded and we can never count out the Yankees. If the Jays played in any other division I believe they could right the ship.
Lol who’s burner account is this? I’m still not over that Berrios decision last year…there needs to be accountability, that was the dumbest baseball decision I’ve ever witnessed and it will be the last taste of playoffs this team is going to have for at least 5 years.
Atkins ruined this team by trading his offense and going all in on a glove first approach.
Scissors not sure if you’re talking to me or not. I agree with the Berrios decision and it wasn’t the first time. Shoemaker, no hitter and 28 pitches through 3 innings against Tampa in 2020. Schneider was not the manager.
I’m in total agreement over the hitting being replaced by gloves and never replenished. All designed to re-allocated dollars. Because the Jays haven’t developed or traded for controllable players with young prospects, they’ve spent their way into mediocre success. But at some point fans need to look at ownership who pick the same type of leadership that breed frustrating results.
They need to be fired. High payroll, a terrible team to watch and a very poor farm system. Shapiro also went on record at the trade deadline in 16 and said he wouldn’t have done the Andrew Miller trade if he was still in charge by the Indians.
It’s telling that they see this year as a disconnect from expectations when it was pretty clear in the off-season that this team was a downgrade over last years team, which was a downgrade from the year before. The offence has been a major problem and there’s been nothing significant done to address it. It’s good that recognize it now, but they sure get paid a lot of money to not see the reality in front of them that fans and media can easily spot.
If Shapiro truly believes in stability and continuity and those are competitive advantages in professional sports, than he should consider firing his gm which has destabilized this ball club.
This club is at a competitive disadvantage with these idiots in office.
Fire them both.
And the Assistant GMs, and the scouting director. But bring in people who can clean up the ground floor. There are too many guys with iPads going over data who aren’t baseball people making baseball decisions. The very same type of people who allowed Oakland to lose every October because of their rigid gameplan that is exploited by strong teams.
I can forgive having a bad year. That happens. But the terrible farm system is not forgivable. As Shapiro said himself, they have failed in their development of pitching.
Instead of having the guys they have learn from their mistakes, maybe they should bring in some people that actually know what they are doing.
Blue Jays should discuss Shapiro’s future. Clean house
My thoughts on these two executives over the years is clear. Like I said and repeated since 2016 “the BlueJays will never win anything with Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins at the helm.”
A big market franchise like the Toronto Bluejays requires an elite executive which Shapiro and Aktins aren’t. Shapiro is a brilliant business guy but keep him away from all baseball operations and personnel..
There are two elite executives currently not employed in MLB: Derek Jeter and Pat Gillick. Gillick wants to stay retired that leaves hiring Jeter to run the show and build an organization. Fire James Click and Tony Lacava as well. Clean house time.
Mark Shapiro. More like Mark Shapyro. Amirite?
My goodness. “Solid as that strategy may have seemed on paper” is NOT PROPER ENGLISH. You can’t just leave “as” out to start the sentence because you feel like it; it’s grammatically necessary. You’re a paid writer, so start writing like one.
Call me old fashioned, but I believe you need to get rid of players that struggle to get enough hits to have a >200 ba.
Varsho is a great glove NO HIT outfielder. I don’t believe that is something a team needs. A superstar glove SS/2b who can’t hit can help your team enough in the field to make up for their crater in the lineup. I don’t believe any OF’er makes enough of a difference to make up for not being able to hit. Varsho is only viable if you have a strong, very strong lineup, where he can hit 9th and be a almost certain out. The fact that sabremetrics love him is the best condemnation of sabremetrics I can think of.