The Royals and Reds made the biggest move of the non-tender deadline. Kansas City acquired infielder Jonathan India and outfielder Joey Wiemer from Cincinnati for starting pitcher Brady Singer. The Royals had space on their 40-man roster, so no corresponding moves were necessary.
It’s a swap of big league veterans between teams that expect to compete for a playoff spot. India and Singer are former college teammates at Florida who each went in the first round of the 2018 draft. Both players got to the big leagues within a couple seasons and have been solid contributors over four years at the MLB level. They’re each under club control for another two seasons.
India started his career with a bang. He won the National League’s Rookie of the Year award in 2021, hitting .269/.376/.459 with 21 homers and 34 doubles while appearing in 150 games. India hasn’t quite maintained that level in the ensuing three seasons. That’s partially due to injury, as he missed time with hamstring and foot issues over the next two years. He combined for a .246/.333/.394 slash with 27 homers in 222 contests over that stretch. That’s middling production for a player who spent his home games at Cincinnati’s Great American Ball Park, arguably the league’s most hitter-friendly venue aside from Coors Field.
He rebounded to an extent this past season. The Reds toyed with using him in a multi-positional role, but Matt McLain’s Spring Training shoulder injury pressed India back into everyday work at second base. While most of Cincinnati’s infield sputtered, India ran a .248/.357/.392 slash with 15 homers across 637 plate appearances. He avoided the injured list and turned in his best numbers since his rookie year.
India doesn’t have huge home run potential. He hasn’t reached 20 homers since his debut season. He’s unlikely to find more over-the-fence pop at spacious Kauffman Stadium. India has solid gap power and a good awareness of the strike zone. He drew walks at a career-best 12.6% clip while keeping his strikeouts to a modest 19.6% rate this year. India has hit at the top of the Cincinnati order for most of his career, a role he’ll now play in Kansas City.
The Royals got very little out of the leadoff spot in 2024. Skipper Matt Quatraro used glove-first third baseman Maikel Garcia as his primary leadoff option. Garcia hit .231 with a meager .281 on-base percentage over 626 trips to the plate. The Royals prioritized finding a more consistent on-base presence who they could plug in atop the lineup. That’ll allow MVP runner-up Bobby Witt Jr. and middle-of-the-order bats Salvador Perez and Vinnie Pasquantino to come up with more opportunities to drive in runs.
India should step into the leadoff spot, though it remains to be seen what position he’ll play. He has played the entirety of his nearly 4000 innings in the majors at second base. Both Defensive Runs Saved and Statcast’s Outs Above Average have graded him as a subpar defender over his career. Statcast felt he turned in average glovework this past season, though DRS rated him 10 runs below par.
Overall, India’s 2024 season wasn’t much better than the production turned in by incumbent second baseman Michael Massey. The lefty-hitting Massey batted .259/.294/.449 with 14 homers over 356 plate appearances while batting early-season back injuries. India gets on base more consistently, but Massey has higher power upside. They’re each middling defenders who are unlikely to win any Gold Gloves.
Acquiring India to move Massey to the bench would be puzzling. The Royals could look to bounce India around the diamond as the Reds considered last spring. He was a third baseman at Florida and in his early minor league career. The Reds could try him at the hot corner while kicking Garcia into a utility role, though Statcast has graded India’s arm strength as middling even by second base standards. (Playing him at third could free the Royals to shop Garcia to teams that might play him at shortstop.) The Royals could bump India or Massey into the corner outfield, curtailing playing time for the underperforming duo of MJ Melendez and Hunter Renfroe.
In any case, it’s clear the Royals placed a premium on getting a leadoff hitter. They’re paying a significant price to get him. Teams are generally loath to part with controllable starting pitching. Singer is a quality mid-rotation arm. His career 4.28 ERA reflects some inconsistency, but he has posted a sub-4.00 mark in two of the past three years.
That includes a 3.71 showing over a full slate of 32 starts this year. Singer racked up a career-best 179 2/3 innings with generally impressive peripherals. He struck out a decent 22.3% of opponents while getting ground-balls at an above-average 47.1% clip. Singer has always been a quality strike-thrower, and he again kept his walk rate to a tidy 7.1% mark.
Singer’s stuff isn’t overpowering. He’s primarily a sinker-slider pitcher who sits around 92 MPH with the heater. The breaking ball is his best swing-and-miss offering, while the sinker generally plays for grounders. Singer has never found a changeup to neutralize left-handed hitters. Lefty batters have hit him at a .261/.342/.442 clip over his career and teed off to a .291/.367/.488 slash this year. Singer dominated right-handed opponents, though, holding them to a paltry .208/.252/.311 line.
The platoon issues probably cap Singer’s upside to that of a third or fourth starter. That’s still a very valuable player, and Singer’s track record of durability holds a lot of appeal to a Cincinnati rotation that was hit hard by injuries this year. He’ll slot behind Hunter Greene and alongside Nick Lodolo and Andrew Abbott in the middle of the staff. Top prospect Rhett Lowder could have the inside track on the fifth starter role, while Nick Martinez is back after accepting a $21.05MM qualifying offer. Martinez is no stranger to kicking between starting and late-inning relief. He could begin the season in the bullpen and move to the rotation as injuries inevitably arise.
It’s a nice get for Cincinnati, who again had questions about where they’d have played India. McLain will be back after missing all of last season. With Elly De La Cruz at shortstop, the keystone is his best path to everyday at-bats. The Reds could’ve deployed India in a utility role between first, second, designated hitter and the corner outfield. The Reds had previously been reluctant to move India, who had emerged as a leader in the clubhouse. They’ll need to fill that void off the field, but dealing him for a mid-rotation starter more effectively balances the roster.
It’s a similar thought process for the Royals, whose lineup wasn’t deep enough to match the strength of their rotation. Kansas City still has an excellent top three in Cole Ragans, Seth Lugo and the re-signed Michael Wacha. Righty Alec Marsh could step into the fourth starter role. That’d leave Kyle Wright and Kris Bubic battling for the fifth starter job pending outside acquisitions. Wright, who posted a 3.19 ERA over 30 starts for the Braves in 2022, is returning after missing the entire ’24 season to shoulder surgery. Bubic rehabbed a ’23 Tommy John procedure and returned to action in a relief role last summer. The Stanford product excelled in short stints (2.67 ERA with 39 strikeouts in 30 1/3 innings) and could stretch back into a starting role.
On paper, Singer seems like the more valuable trade chip than India. That’s partially balanced by the inclusion of Wiemer, who’ll compete for a spot in K.C.’s corner outfield. A former Brewers’ draft pick out of the University of Cincinnati, Wiemer emerged as a top prospect thanks to a huge power-speed combination. The longstanding question is whether the 6’4″ outfielder would make enough contact to tap into that upside.
That hasn’t happened to this point. Wiemer, who turns 26 in February, has hit .201/.279/.349 with an elevated 28.5% strikeout rate in 438 big league plate appearances. Milwaukee moved on from the right-handed hitter at last summer’s deadline, packaging him to the Reds for a few months of Frankie Montas. Wiemer carried a .242/.387/.358 line in Triple-A at the time of that trade, but he finished the year with a dismal .190/.280/.229 showing in 118 plate appearances for Cincinnati’s top affiliate. That understandably wasn’t enough to warrant an extended look in the majors. Wiemer only took one at-bat in a Reds uniform.
Wiemer has one option year remaining and comes with at least five seasons of club control. He could be a long-term piece if he hits his stride in his mid-20s, but he’ll need to take a leap forward with his contact skills for that to happen.
The trade is close to a wash financially. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects Singer for an $8.8MM salary in his penultimate arbitration season. That’d likely jump into the $12-14MM range for 2026. India will make $7.05MM next year and will go through arbitration again in the following offseason. Wiemer will play for around the league minimum for at least another two seasons. Depending on Singer’s ultimate arbitration price, the Reds are adding about $2MM to their payroll.
C. Trent Rosecrans and Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic reported last week that the Royals and Reds had discussed an India/Singer framework. Robert Murray of FanSided first reported the Royals were acquiring Wiemer.
Images courtesy of USA Today Sports.
This is one of those rare rumors that later becomes real
@tigers182. I feel like India has been on the trade block for atleast three years.
Reds FO doesn’t like players who question whether or not they are attempting to compete, too the press.
Never mind that, India sucks.
@peteview. Singer is good every other year. He’s coming off his good year. Even if his peripherals suggested he got lucky. It looks even to me.
Singer pretty much the same every year. 2023 k rate down a bit but pretty consistent.
India won’t be the last one under this regime.
That, and also his salary since they had other infielders they thought would play more. Candelario’s salary is the one that needs dumped.
Nah. Looks like a clear win to the Reds for me. Not an earthshaking win, but a clear win.
Not sure who would have ever taken that contract.
I agree, I like the fact Singer is a sinker ball pitcher. Cincinnati needs either strikeout pitchers or those with a heavy sinker. That’s how you win at that ballpark. I also think it’s addition by subtraction, India is a below average defender who is a slap hitter. Being a slap hitter doesn’t take advantage of the ball flying out of the ballpark. It works better in Kansas City @ Kauffman.
Rex — Even so, wouldn’t you prefer the upside on Singer to the clunk glove and not very productive Jonathan India?
I’m really surprised the Royals pulled the trigger on this one.
@peteview. I’m not to excited about his peripherals. I’ll give you that he has more upside since he’s a pitcher. Royals probably did it for a bat, and to save some money in arbitration. Wouldn’t surprise me if they sign lorenzen to fill the gap.
@rex – I noticed that as well. Bad year coming up. Very Saberhagen.
Not using the “s” word, but I have to ask why KV would make this move. Singer is not a stud but I truly thought he was worth more. I’m just glad the Red Sox didn’t get India as had been rumored since last year.
Me too Pete.
If you’re implying the Reds “dumped” India’s salary the player they traded for makes more. The FO deserves credit for our situation not constant unwarranted criticism. Krall is trying to make this roster more balanced and better and today he accomplished that at least on paper.
@octavian8. I don’t see anyone implying that unless it’s 40 comments above mine. Especially when I said the royals, and it’s also in the article saying singer is projected to make more. I was commenting on people saying the trade is one sided. It made sense for both teams, and it wouldn’t surprise if they both have free agent signings to make it clearer.
That Candelairo deal was bad from the start. They reap what they sewed signing him
he’s a little bit better than suck
@Rex — Sign Lorenzen! To replace Singer?! After doing so well last off season what the heck is the KC front office thinking?
360 obp doesn’t suck
I remember getting a lot of flak on here for opposing that deal. Several praised the Candelairo signing after his one career year and claimed he was worth the money and better than the other options. I’ve never found him to be that good.
Where are you getting that number from? Try .279 last year. Candelairo only reached .360 OBP once, nearly twice. Unless we are talking about two different players…
Candelairo is the epitome of mediocrity.
My apologies, pretty sure you’re talking about India
YOU are an ass. One of the most humble people I’ve ever met. What a Dumb*ss
Royals made out like bandits in my opinion.
Red’s just had to wait for the right sucker willing to overpay for a 2b.
I disagree on this one Dream. I think the Royals are going to like having India. He’s a nice contrast from the players they currently have.
I won’t disagree with that. They know exactly what they are getting. Better than like they will love. Overpay though imo but many times you have to when you get that fomo.
An AWFUL deal for the Royals. They could have done so much better if they really needed to move Singer.
Agreed. And, “really need to move,’ yes, is this a salary dump, since Singer is hitting arb and India is still a year away?
BR says both are 2 years from free agency.
BR says India doesn’t hit arb until 2026 and Singer hits it next year. I checked all that before I posted on Reddit and just rechecked now.
I know that’s not free agency, but it’s still an extra year of cost control, especially with India having slipped significantly in 2023 and rebounded only mildly in 2024.
India hit arb a year ago, and signed a 2 year deal covering the first 2 eligible seasons.
Spotrac is probably better for contract stuff. Or at least another source to check.
cots is better – pulls straight from AP and/or MLBPA
I’m gonna guess there wasn’t a better offer if they did this deal…Unless you think JJ was just in love with India
KCMOWHOA —
I suggested in a recent MLBTR chat (before anyone one had mentioned Singer in trade talk) that the Giants might be willing to move Doval and/or Wade+ for Singer.
Whoever was leading the chat at the time said, “The Royals would want more than that.”
Well, the Royals certainly did not, landing India. I still can’t make sense of this deal.
I think this was the best they could get. We needed a leadoff hitter and someone to take over 2b since Massey requested to move to the OF. We are likely overvaluing Singer since no one else in the league felt he was worth more than this
Wow…..Reds make out like bandits.
Disagree. Singer could struggle at GABP
The outfielder they are trading hit 154. That is not a good part of this trade.
Weimer is just a throw in just think of it as India for Singer
Kind of like throwing in a bucket of balls
Weiner used to be a top prospect and the Royals need corner outfielders badly. He might be better than Melendez right now.
Not a chance!
Some throw ins are just to try and balance the books.
No. He wasn’t that good in the minors, and hasn’t been all that good in his brief big league time.
He isn’t going to be a starter. He will come off the bench……or be sent to AAA to work on his swing.
There’s a chance. MJ is a butcher in the outfield and hits a cool .200
He’s a possible short side platoon with Isbel in CF. He hits left handed pitching
That is my concern for a fly ball pitcher.
I believe he is a ground ball pitcher.
49.1% ground ball percentage for his career.
With a career HR/9 of 1.1
Singer’s SO/BB for 2023 was 3.15
Not too shabby
20% of ground balls at GABP go for home runs…
In addition, the Reds offense is going to be putrid next season.
LOL they get McLain back who is far better than India
If his shoulder is recovered. That was a nasty injury. Votto never tecovered.
Where was Mclain last season and at the end of 2023?
Dude casually put up a .876 ops in the AZL after not seeing live pitching for a whole year. He’ll be fine
They need to get back 3 or 4 McLain’s, that’s how bad the Offense is.
Votto is like 40 and he had a Rotator Cuff and Biceps tear. McLain had a Labral tear and is much younger….they aren’t remotely similar. Tatis also had a Labral tear as well and did pretty well this past year.
Jeimer was a dumb signing…hopefully Elly will progress.
McLain was hurt all season. should be healthy to start spring training, that is why India became expendiable
Nasty? You saw it?
He was injured you casual
McLain was 24 years old when he had his shoulder surgery. Votto was like 55 years old. A 24 year old tends to heal much quicker and better.
Brian Cashman Fan ±
He could but Singer’s still so much more valuable than Jonathan India. Royals should know better.
Yes Lori Singer would…
I wouldn’t be that happy with Singer if I was a Reds fan…….
Gator for Gator
1st round 2018 Gator for 1st round 2018 Gator
Go Gators, c’mon Gators, Get Up and Go!
Florida Man for Florida Man!
Son, you’re thinking of Jake the Aligator Man, and he wasn’t from Florida.
Stove is officially on!
Is India even an upgrade over Massey? Yikes
Good Q…India does get on base a lot but it doesn’t look like it to me.
Probably not Michael Massey is a much better second base.
Agreed, Massey has proven himself. The Royals won with him. This trade doesn’t help the team.
Yes
Massey’s xwOBA last 2 seasons: .312 and .319
India’s xwOBA last 2 seasons: .354 and .339
Sounds close enough not to trade a mid rotation arm for small upgrade.
GMoney28 —
No.
I don’t understand this trade. Singer is a very good starting pitcher and you get a very average 2nd basemen plus a player in Wiemer that is just meh.
But India is considered a team leader. I will miss his presence as a Reds fan though…
A team leader on the reds. He’s not going to come in having to mesh with his new teammates and become one of their clubhouse leaders over night. He was a much better “leader” for the reds. He will have to put up results to win over the KC fan base and clubhouse. He’s very average as a player so leadership matters more for a team he already laid roots down with in the reds moreso the royals.
LOL I was being sarcastic more than anything
India’s leadership with the Reds was a LOT more necessary when David Bell was in the dugout than it would be now that Francona is in charge.
How much are teams paying for leadership these days? I thought it was the manager’s job to lead??
I don’t understand it either.. especially since JJ Piccolo acted like he likes our rotation.
I think Noah Cameron will be in the starting rotation for KC opening day. I think that the leadoff spot has been a really bad spot in the lineup, Singer will be up for arbitration next season and Cameron pitched well at Omaha. India does get on base which is great for Witt, Jr.
Singer in the hit friendly Kauffman is inconsistent and will play much better in a Cincy’s small park where groundballs are a focus for the Reds. India may benefit from this new environment that pushes up everything except homers, so maybe a boost in BABIP. And Wiemer has an option and 5 years of control. Wiemer could easily become an interesting contributor if he finds contact; plus his speed should play up in KC.
Wiemer’s been solved for awhile. No bat to ball skills is the worst thing in a prospect. He can play D and pinch run but I doubt he’s ever a serious ML contributor.
Kinda like a Brett Phillips with a little less D.
It’s not a great chance, but there have been guys that become serviceable. The Royals’ farm doesn’t have a lot of talent at the moment in this sphere, so adding him has utility.
i think this is a great move for the Royals. They get a nice 2B and young OF with potential. The Royals can afford to let a SP go
Michael Massey is feeling pretty bad right now..
I think it’s a bad move for Royals. What does every team want? Need? Can never have enough of? Hard to get? Not cheap? It ain’t 2b it’s pitching pitching pitching.
It shows the Royals actually value hitters who get on base. India ranked 34rh out of 324 hitters with at least 250 PA’s last season.
Wiemer is likely a career minor leaguer at this point. I originally made the suggestion of India and Noelvi Marte for Singer. So I am thrilled to just give up Wiemer who we got in a throw in in the Montas trade.
You were never getting Marte. India is already an to much for a career losing record pitcher.
LOL if you think W-L is any indication of a pitchers these days.
How are you on this site and think W/L record for pitching is relevant??
I agree there are better measurements other than a W/L record for a pitcher. But, a pitcher’s Win/Loss record is still an indication to what type of year/career a pitcher has had.
The issue becomes when people with small minds (not referring to you), have to view things as all or nothing. For example, Win AND loss records are bad because something else is better. Life is not black and white. Life is often gray.
For starting pitchers, W-L records matter. It indicates if you’re pitching more than 5 innings. It indicates whether you’re pitching better than your opponent. And it pays in arbitration, and FA negotiations. You don’t win 15 games if you’re not an effective starter.
@stymeed W-L does have some value. By and large it shows a pitcher is out pitching their opponent to an extent, with the law of averages. However it can’t be viewed without looking at other statistics that are better measures of performance.
A pitcher could lose every game due to lack of run support. A solid 2 or 3 in a rotation could out of dumb luck lineup primarily against other teams aces. So although he’d be often out pitched it W/L could show he was much less effective than he actually was.
Not sure how it indicates one is pitching more than 5 innings either. Yes the longer you pitch the more likely you ll be pitcher of record. But that’s in no way an absolute.
W-L is less relevant than ever before. Starters don’t pitch complete games anymore. It’s 5-6 innings most nights and then it’s handed over to the bullpen where they can blow the game after you threw 6 strong innings.
It’s an easy stat to look at but you have about 15 other measures that are a whole lot more informative. If you have 15+ Wins today—you probably were an effective pitcher but there’s also a strong chance that there’s a bunch of guys with 12 wins who were better than you.
That’s the secret to my success. I don’t even look at w l era batting average RBI or any obsolete useless stats. It’s amazing that in soon to be 2025 so so many people still do. Heck I even think a good chunk of teams do. Some of their moves leave no other conclusion. It’s hard to believe but their decisions leave no other explanation. I do know deGrom had 2 seasons with a win loss just a hair above average 500 something and he won back to back cy youngs.
I would laugh if a agent tried using win loss to negotiate. I will say though. I am so analytical I create my own formulas. It’s a major part of my work career and even life. But when I played baseball I very very much cared about my w l. And I know closers really really care about another so called worthless stat saves.
One of those seasons for deGrom was such horrible luck. Guy was pitching team after gem and getting losses or no decisions.
India may do for the Royals what a guy named Morgan did for the Reds in the 70s.
Not talent wise, but he’s a catalyst type and he’ll like hitting in front of Witt. Kid can really turn on a fastball when he’s going good.
Gertting traded may be the thing that sets him free…he’s been the subject of trade rumors for the last several years. Hard to have that hanging over you and perform. I will miss him…
India always reminds me of a guy that if he got traded to the Yankees he would be the heart and soul of the team for the next decade.
If India got traded to the Yankees he’d be mourning the loss of his sweet sweet locks.
True, but he has trouble with consistencia. Hot then not!
Except that he’s rarely “going good.”
You never have too much starting pitching and India is nothing special. The Royals will regret this but great for Cincy.
Weaver 2.0 loading
I will be surprised if the Royals regret it all that much. I happen to think it’s a bad trade for both teams. The ballpark effect is not going to help India’s power numbers and Singer will likely struggle at GABP. Neither team is giving up all that much to have regrets
Do you really think someone traded for India’s power numbers? They traded for his OBA.
Really sad to see India go, I wish him the best with his new team.
Agreed. He’s a grinder but removed from our mostly mediocre team he’s nothing special in the grand scheme of things. Streaky, average at best defense poor range. Wanted to keep him but with McClain and Steer there capable of playing his position (and more coming up) the fact he was likely headed to the DH slot, I’ll take Singer all day long.
Don’t like this for the Royals at all.
So Lodolo and Ashcraft will now set up Diaz? Starters only need to give us 6!
I hope they won’t wish they had India later on if the injury bug or backsliding hits
We need all these guys….half of our starters I would categorize as injury prone…
I would keep Lodolo in the rotation and Martinez in the pen where he is much more effective. Martinez is very valuable as a swing man and Lodolo could be a top of the rotation talent if he can finally stay healthy.
A big if on Lodolo.
I am a Phillies fan, and every time I see Lodolo pitch, he looks dominant. He has the stuff to be at least a #2 starter, and maybe even a #1.
Agreed, but due to injuries he’s entering his age 27 season and never pitched 125 innings in a singular year of his life.
Wouldn’t be surprised if this trade is the first domino. And the next is Lodolo for an OF plus prospects.
Why do you want to trade Brady? That’ll be the third Royals jersey I have to put in the back of my closet permanently.
I’m not sure any team can afford to let a SP go.
I still don’t understand why they would trade Brady. I would’ve traded Carlos Hernandez instead.
I agree to a certain extent, but teams like the Guardians and Royals don’t typically develop great hitters. Makes sense for them to trade pitching for hitting, especially in Cleveland where their operating budget almost never changes.
Hot stove is hot
India isn’t better than Massey. Does one of them play third?
India played 3B in college
Poor Joey. Got traded to his (college) hometown of Cincinnati, and then a couple of months later, he got traded away from his (college) hometown of Cincinnati. It’s got to be tough for the Ohio native…
A good GM has to have blinders on over things like that. You should have 100% effort on winning.
Wow we got a guy who had a losing record on a playoff team. What a haul.
He can’t help his team stunk for him. He pitched well enough to win all but half dozen times.
I think I like this for the Reds more but maybe there’s something to the fact of fans of both teams not loving it that makes the trade pretty fair?
I haven’t noticed Red’s fans not liking it. “We got McClain Marte don’t need this guy”
In the first article mentioning it there were some Reds fans not happy about the idea.
I seen some but mostly their toxic fans that hate everything they do. I don’t count them. Nothing against them. Just about every fanbase has them.
Don’t understand how Reds fans can be anything but overjoyed at this deal
Who cares
Sorry
Royals fans.
Reds fans.
Fans of other teams in their divisions.
Randos who enjoy any and all Hot Stove action.
I’m sorry, who are you again?
Why apologize?
It’s schtick, don’t worry about it 😉
Good trade for the Reds. Once they resigned Espinal, India was gone. Moving Lodolo to the pen might be a good idea since he would be pitching shorter stints. It should help with his blister problem.. Now they need to go out and get one (if not two) outfielders that can greatly contribute to the offense.
Espinal is trash
Tiger22IQmatt has been muted.
What was his ERA in 2023 again? Also he was 8-13 last season for a playoff team…..
Win-loss record has no bearing on pitcher value.
Era has no bearing on pitcher value. Except for the White Sox front office. Probably many more teams… But it shouldn’t have any value.
Tell that to Verlander and Scherzer. Their W-L records is what got them $43MM! Tell that to Wacha, who just wins, but otherwise can’t be compared those Cy Young winners.
What was his ERA in 2022 and 2024?
And the rather meaningless W-L record last year was 9-13.
The Reds rotation is taking shape Greene,Abbott,Martinez,Singer and Lowder. Lodolo and Ashcraft and Burns waiting in the wings.
They will likely need that many starters waiting in the wings. if last season was any indicator.
Cat, in the four to five starter era, I like having ex-starters in the bullpen, especially with all the injuries. You have big league ready guys already on the roster.
Lodolo needs to be in the rotation. Martinez excelled in his swing man role last year, and that is where he is most valuable.
He kept having problems with blisters on his throwing hand. He supposedly changed his grip on the ball and was less effective., Maybe pitching less innings per outing will help with the blister problem or maybe they can solve the blister problem. All of that remains to be seen. Martinez really excelled at the end of the season when he started.
But…why?
(From the Royals’ persective)
There has been a shortage of 2b and teams for some reason are willing to massively over pay for a 2b that doesn’t really move the needle.
YourDreamGM — To the contrary, second basemen are usually the least expensive and the least coveted. If India were an even decent player, maybe, but he’s not. This deal is a head scratcher from the Royals POV.
Not lately. Seattle traded their closer to division rival for whatever 2b that was. Then traded for wong. Then traded for Polanco. That dude that hits for average and nothing else been traded twice. Everyone wanted Jazz. They should be lowest tier but haven’t lately. Royals just traded a mid rotation starter for just a above average at best one.
I’m not going to pretend to know how India will perform in KC but true baseball fans will appreciate the way he goes about his business. He plays hard and puts winning above himself. The guy is way better than your current perception. You can gather from the comments in this thread the Reds fans are sorry he’s leaving but most understand the reality of the situation. Give him a chance.
The “why” is OBP.
It looks like the Reds got a possible piece for 2 players that aren’t good!
Ones above average and the other used to be thought of becoming that.
Maybe 2 years ago I’d agree but not lately
Good for Average and Bad….
Royals got absolutely fleeced.
And I will never be able to get Brady’s autograph now.
You can write to the team, in care of Brady Singer. Include some cards for him to sign and a self-addressed stamped envelope. Also try sending to their Spring Training facility, they get less mail there.
You do save a few million though. India is locked in for $5M next year where as Singer likely gets $8M or so…
Based on the comments here, it appears like an even trade based on needs.
You been around long enough to know my trade grade is the only comment that matters.
Lol. Anything you say as long as you put the football slider bit to permanent rest, Roger.
Those videos are great. If you watched them you would be like me who used to be tuff on roger but stopped. Roger needs lots of support. Lots.
My mind seen more Reds won trade. The few red’s lost were from the ones that hate anything everything reds do. Seen a few that like it for kc but they think singer is bad because of wins and loses so I don’t factor them in either. I gave KC D and not a F. They knew exactly what they were getting and did it. They traded for what they thought was a bigger need. Maybe they don’t want or can’t spend in free agency. Reds have lots of potential 2b so they basically picked up Singer for free. Someone has to go to create playing time. With Red’s it’s the older more expensive guy even if he is the safer choice.
A and B at worst, not D for me.
I am well aware of how highly Yankees fans valued andujar Frazier Gylber so I am not surprised.
Looking at these comments, it is obvious who just looks at stats and who actually played the game.
Objectively, probably a good deal for both sides as both filled their want list.
The Reds need to get at least one good hitter (if not two) for the OF. The offense (weak to start with) took a hit losing India. We have a lot of potential with the bats but also a lot of unknowns. They are CES. Marte and possibly McClain. De La Cruz needs to keep improving and Stephenson and Steer need to at least repeat last year’s performance.
McLain is the real deal and even though India is valuable, McLain is much more so. All McLain does is hit, and he’s a much better defensive player.
India did not have a position in 2025 and has no positional flexibility. I love the player, and he represented himself and the team well, but the team has a surplus in the infield and he is the one that doesn’t have a seat when the music stops.
I really dont understand why people keep saying India didn’t have a place to play. Who is blocking him? The Royals are going to play India at 3b. Who is playing 3b for the Reds? Marte was awful last year. Candelaria was bad. Strand was bad. Spinal was bad. These aren’t guys you want to put in the starting lineup.
The Reds might have led all of baseball in negative WAR position players. They had a ton.
Who was blocking India at 3B for the Reds? India was. In his 4 years in MLB he has exactly 0 IP at 3B. Not a single inning. Yeah, India played 3B in college and in the minors, but with all of the injuries in any given year, and with the Marte suspension, the Reds never had him play at third once in 4 years.
Maybe India can move to 3B in KC, but he hasn’t proven he can do so in Cincy. And India is a below average defender at 2B.
India is a nice leadoff hitter, but he wasn’t going to start in front of McLain at 2B. Marte will get a chance to get right and Candelario will get a chance to get healthy. Between those two and CES, the Reds have 3B, 1B, and DH covered until proven otherwise. And if they don’t pan out they have Arroyo, Collier, and Stewart knocking on the door.
India never got a chance to play 3b in Cincy. That’s not the players fault so why are you blaming him?
McCain is coming off a series injury. Marte was downright terrible last year. Candelario was bad. Strand was bad. To count on thst group of players seems stupid.
Well said Earm!
Jonathan India has a terrible arm at 2B. He’s not going to be a decent defensive 3B.
There’s traits that you can see at one position that you can be confident won’t translate to another. Not having arm strength isn’t conducive to a move to 3B.
India hit 15 HRs last season. His expected HR total if he played in KC was 8 HRs. India will run more because that’s KC’s style and he draws walk so that’s a safe bet to continue.
Singer’s moving to a hitter friendly launching pad. But he does at least keep the ball on the ground at a solid clip. I thought the Reds would have to kick in more because controllable starters cost more. Have to like this move for them.
Was it that India “never got a chance” to play 3b in Cinci, or was it that the Reds knew better than to put him there given his poor glove?
Does India even have the arm for 3b? (Cause I know he doesn’t have the bat for that position.)
Does Maikel Garcia have the bat for 3b?
India came up as a 3b. The Reds had 3b at the time and needed a 2b. Not the first time they turned a 3b into something else(Senzel). I don’t know if he can play 3b still or not.
I can buy that India was moved to 2B because Cincy already had a 3B in MLB named Eugenio Suarez. However, the year after India’s rookie year (2022) the Reds had a revolving door at 3B. A total of 11 players had time at 3B in 2022, some appearing in just 1 or 2 games, but not India. Not one single inning, if only to facilitate a pinch hitter or runner. In 2023 it was 9 players with time at 3B, including an inning by Catcher Curt Casali (his only inning at third in 11 seasons in MLB), but not India.
India has 4,000 innings in MLB at 2B over 4 years but 0 innings at 3B. It could be some really weird anomoly or it could be that the Reds weren’t high on his arm or his defense at third.
The Reds talked about having India play in the OF or at 1B in 2024, but it never happened. He has no proven positional flexibility. We’ll see what happens in KC.
There’s a million guys who play different positions in the low minors. We have years of data and video evidence that India has a weak arm.
His arm doesn’t play at 3B in the majors. That’s why he doesn’t play there.
What next? Pete Alonso for Harrison Bader?
Isn’t Alonso a free agent?
So is Bader. It’s a free agent trade!
Harrison Ford….
Harrison Butker
A for Red’s. Singer is playoff starter solid mid rotation. For a 2b? Had to make this trade.
D for KC. No idea why you would trade a pitcher for a 2b and failed prospect. Maybe they see something and I can see that but trade something else.
Both teams know what they are getting.
Reds desperately need guys that can give you innings. Singer would have led the Reds in innings pitched each of the last 3 years!! Great trade for the Reds….
Agree. And India is safe sure thing 2b but they have guys who are cheaper with more years of control. Someone had to go. And a mid rotation arm is more valuable than a 700 ops 2b. Well except to the Royals.
India is a .764 OPS 2B, but I agree that the Reds needed to trade from their infield surplus and India was the spare, but valuable, part to be traded. Starting pitching is much more valuable than an even above average 2B.
And India is not above average on either side of the ball.
He’s above average. Obp ops ops+ all above average. Positive war. Defensively i heard he improved. From what little I seen I agree. Will he be closer to just average outside of Cincinnati? Could. We’ll see.
India can lead off. He will look great in front of Witt !
Leading off is his forte. They will likely lead him off and use him mostly at DH.
So many don’t know all the facts. Royals need lead off hitter. Worst part of team last year. India gets on base . India will play 3rd. Don’t sleep on Wiemer. Top 100 prospect 2023.
Singer is a good starting pitcher. He only pitched 1 inning during the Playoffs. He refuses to use a 3rd pitch in tough situations. Royals have some depth in pitching. Had to give up something to help set the table for Witt.
2 pitch starters historically don’t do well at GABP….so hopefully Singer starts throwing that 3rd pitch.
Wiemer barely hit .200 in the minors last year with 3 homers….you should sleep on Wiemer. Brewers seldom make bad trades and were happy to ship him to a Division Rival no less….
They can’t sign one? Have 9 spots locked down and 3b is only position they need? How good is India at 3b? He never looked good to me until recently and it was at 2b. Hopefully he can do well. Just I like Singer more no matter how many pitches he’s throwing.
He came up as a third baseman. He had an Achilles injury that limited his range for about a year and a half. He looked healthy last year. Dude plays hurt and never complains.
India has never played 3B in MLB in his 4 seasons. Yes, he played 3B in the minors and in college, but it doesn’t make sense to me that he’s never played 3B in the show, even for a game or 3, if he was solid as a 3B man.
Because he doesn’t have the arm for it!
Not a 3B. Maikel Garcia plays a great 3B. You’d lose a lot in defense with India there. Garcia needs to hit a lot more to stick but India isn’t the answer.
My phone said royals trade for jonathan india. I thought wow prospects for a proven player, nice move! Then I heard who they gave up….floored! Brady Singer is a steep price!
Ya but you get one time prospect Wiemer! The guy hit above .200 in the minors last year with 3 homers to boot!
Hmm my AL fantasy team is not winning in this deal… now have India at $5, Morel at $1… time to rebuild!
I’m not a Royals fan, so this could be an ignorant question, but I didn’t think they had a surplus of starting pitching.
I didn’t think any team did.
They don’t really have a surplus of pitching in the majors. They have a little bit of pitching in the minors, but they are still developing at this point.
I was always a fan of Asa Lacy. I hope he can pan out.
They clearly are confident in the 3+ guys they have who can compete for the last 2 rotation spots. I like to think that they feel more confident in those guys than they do in the future of Singer, which is why they made the move. A lot of commenters are ignoring how abysmal the lead off spot was for KC in 2024. The Royals just covered their need in an offseason with putrid free agent options. The front office can now focus on other things (like signing a 4th starter if they want).
Royals could have had the ideal lead off guy, LaMonte Wade Jr. from the Giants, one of the top OBP of all Major Leaguers (year after year), for Singer. And Wade could have played LF or RF for the Royals.
People say the Royals have pitching to trade but I don’t see that. Who is their 5th and 6th starters now?
I don’t see that either. Reliable starting pitching is the one commodity most teams are looking for. Unless they somehow love India, the Royals could have waited before moving Singer. What was the rush?
I guess if you think India can play 3b it makes some sense for the Royals. But the Rpyals are going to have to sign a starter or 2. A back end starter is probably easier to find than a 3b. But can India actually play 3b?
The Royals must think so.
Considering the Reds’ infield situation, they should be able to endure life without India. Kudos to them for grabbing an affordable SP so quickly. Now, they can look to fill holes that need filling.
Apparently, India played third base in college and the Royals don’t need to sign two more starters. We already have a pretty good rotation. We have Wacha, Lugo and Ragans
Who are the Royals 5th and 6th starters?
180 innings under 4 era. Dig deeper he’s even better. But who are the 5 guys who are better and the long man and 3 top 100 prospects ready to attempt to be that?
On the Flip side Singer would have led the Reds in innings pitched each of the last 3 years!!! Inning eaters are worth the money….they make your BP so much better.
I think the question is, if they didn’t make this trade, who were they going to target I the FA market to be their lead off hitter?
Royals must really believe in Wiemer
Or they project India to lead off and get on base at a 350 clip
Must be his .224 average in the Minors last year…or maybe his 3 HR’s….
Any royals fan that watched before this year knows exactly what Singer is. Last year was his best by far….he’s not that guy. He’s getting to the point where he’s going to be costing big money and I’m so glad the royals aren’t the team going to give it to him. Trust me, we sold high. I’m interested to see if India or Massey make the move to left.
Neither one is going to move to the outfield…. Unless you mean third base?
No. I mean outfield.
No arbitration player cost big $. Even the hall of fame track superstars can be had for 1 year 30m. Singer won’t even get past 20. Absolute bargain.
Anywhere close to 20 mil for singer is money wasted. Anything over 10 is money wasted. You’ll see.
You are about to be grossly unhappy with India.
That may be but I guarantee singer has peaked. Happy to sell high.
Singer wasn’t significantly better last year than any other year.
This trade clearly sets the standard for SP in the Central Division. Reds are 1-2 upgrades in the BP from fielding the best pitching staff in the division as well. And payroll currently still sets at about $90MM.
They seem to have a solid plan for 2025. Aside from bullpen upgrades, what do you think they need to do? A proven run producer?
Offensive outfielder for sure…
Wont be better than pirates. Maybe they same. Pirates have a ton depth in minors as well. Not that red’s don’t have depth. See how it plays out.
The Royals may have just gotten a bit worse, but not if they fill that rotation spot with Max Fried!
Might as well sign Soto while you’re at it
Oh it actually happened? Pretty even deal imo.
Can’t say I’ll miss him as he’s been a Cardinal killer the last few years
Hall of famer if he only played cards pirates
Im not a Royals fan but I got the opportunity to visit Kauffman for the first time last summer and one of the guys (other than Witt) I was very impressed with was Massey. Not knowing how Massey’s splits look, I’m wondering will they have an India/Massey platoon at 2B or plug in India at the DH spot.
Maybe they’ll have India play third base because that was his college position
Massey doesn’t draw walks. Is the India upgrade worth a mid rotation arm absolutely not. Someone said India will play 3b. I dunno who their 3b is but they has to be some 3b free agents or trade targets so 3b is even worse of a trade. 2b has been a black hole in free agency.
This was more about filling the need of lead off hitter than replacing Massey. That said, I think there are health concerns for both India & Massey, so platooning them could keep them fresh.
India = overrated
Singer has real value. Royals should be accumulating all the starting pitching they can get AND acquire a lead off man, not shedding a valuable rotation arm. Not seeing the urgency angle either it’s not even Thanksgiving, it’s India. Reds have been unable to move him going on 2 years. I don’t like this move this early at this price for the Royals. Hat tip to the Reds.
Unless Singer needs Tommy John, this is an awful trade for KC. For this horrible package why couldn’t the Royals throw in some bad contracts and make the reds pay to get rid of the FA signings that sucked last year.
We don’t have any bad contracts anymore Hunter Dozier was DFA in 2023 I believe
Straton and Renfroe are still there.
Hunter Renfroe was decent and we needed a outfielder
.229 and 0.0 WAR is bad and the “prospect” we got with the average 2nd baseman is a bust. I hope I’m wrong, but I really liked Singer as our 4th starter.
The Reds can’t afford someone else’s bad contracts.
Great trade to attract Soto to the Royals and show him they’re planning to be competitive.
Reds got the trade done by pulling their Wiemer out
So who moves from 2b to the OF? Massy or India?
Seen some royals fans say india 3b. If it’s 2b than massy moves to bench or off team. If he isn’t good enough to play 2b he certainly isn’t good enough for outfield.
India….he’s not a good second baseman
Nobody. I see India rotating between 2b and 3b.
I just dont get royals trading singer when he’s finally reaching his peak. India’s a wild card
But KC improved 30 Ws last yr i guess they know what they’re doing
India isn’t much better than their in-house 2b what was the point of this?
OBP
Now the Tyler Stephenson watch begins.
Doubt it…Red’s have ZERO catching depth in the Minors. Duno is like 5 years away
He has two years tops. Just watch.
I’d rather they give him an extension, but we know how they operate.
This deal was on the table for a week so nobody must had a better offer to either team. Singer is a solid four but would look like a one for one game and a rookie the next. I’m assuming the Royals think they are getting someone that can hit the outfield gaps in KC. I’m not familiar with his numbers in the ballpark.
Meh for meh
singer just put together a very nice solid year, and indias been on a decline since his ROY (although he did put up a okay 2024)
I like this trade IF the Royals are confident in the health and effectiveness of Kyle Wright coming back, and/or plan to sign another legit starter to slot in to the rotation. Bubic was great in the pen and should remain there. I love Massey, but he has back issues that need to be managed and he’s not the leadoff, OBP guy the Royals desperately needed. If he’s healthy enough, hit him 5th or 6th and put he or India at 3rd.
This. I think JJ sees it as though the FA options to sign a pitcher are better than his options of signing a lead-off hitter. Will he sign a pitcher to directly fill the 4th spot? Probably not. Will he sign an arm that could compete for the rotation along with Marsh, Wright, Bubic, etc? Maybe.
I turned on MLB network and Mlb tonight just happened to have a news story about this trade. They had Jonathan India penciled in as a DH and Maikel Garcia still being third baseman (smh) in a projected lineup.
Win for the Reds. 179 IP of well above average pitching last year, above average ERA+ for his career. IP rising every non-COVID year. India is an OK player but Singer would be in the rotation of almost every club in the majors.
Oh man, always loved India sad to see him go. I feel like he’s going to kill it in KC, go get it man
Former teammates traded for each other. How nice.
Reds won
And this one belongs to the reds
I’ll take a controllable arm over a mediocre bat any day. Well done Cincinnati.
As the writer states, I think this is a nice get for the Reds. Singer’s awful 2023 seems like an aberration, so for the Reds to get a useful, young starting pitcher for someone who wasn’t going to start for them next season is a nice pickup.
Singer was the projected #1 pick in the draft going into his last season at FL. He had a down year and fell quite a bit. Mize blew up and ended up going 1 to the tigers.
Now reds need to go get Luis Robert whom they have always coveted to anchor this lineup. Move Lodolo to pen and call it a successful offseason !
Petty and collier and throw in should get it done for Robert
Lodolo to the pen?! Nooo
That’s what they said about Hader. And that’s the perfect comp. Power lefty who can strike out everybody.
Lodolo was untouchable til he wore down then got hurt. Keep him fresh out of the pen over 60-80 innings and he will be one of best in the game !
Robert is somewhat suspect. He has only 1 season with more than 400 ABs. due to a string of injuries. When he’s in the lineup he strikes out a ton. Robert had an OPS+ of 87 in 2024, which was the worst of his 5 seasons.
And he doesn’t come cheap as he only has 1 year remaining at $15MM with 2 years of $20MM per team options.
He also plays for the white sox. Pay the price in prospects and sox should eat most they salary
Who u want them to get to anchor that lineup E ?
I don’t think we can blame Robert’s inability to stay healthy on playing for the White Sox. Nor should we expect a drastic reduction in strike outs with a change in scenery.
In a perfect world I’d love Teoscar Hernandez to fill the obvious hole in RF. If that is not doable, in descending order I’d go Santander, O’Neill (in a platoon with Fraley), and Conforto,
I expect big rebound years from CES (who hit the cover off the ball in every minor league level), McLain, and Candelario. Steer should also improve from a mediocre 2024. Friedl, if healthy, is a legit CFr.
That said, finding an upgrade in RF is the quickest way to improve this lineup.
Robert has a higher probability of performing this coming season than CES. And Hernandez has his strikeout and inconsistency as well.
I do agree the lineup will be much better this coming season, they just need to address RF somehow. Let’s hope and pray they do haha
I’ll pass. Petty maybe
On paper I dont really like this trade. The Royals already have a second baseman with similar numbers. I also feel like injuries will hit the Royals starting pitching this year and they need the depth. However, just think how many more RBIs Witt, Perez, and Pasquantino will get with a leadoff hitter with a .340 OBP vs. Garcia’s .270 OBP.
Obp is significantly better
Just my opinion but I think Brady Singer is the more valuable player. Reds did very well to get a starter of his calibur for a player who is superfluous with Matt McClain on the roster. Reds got stronger, royals did not.
It’s obvious India needed a change of scenery and Singer had a fairly good season. I think it’s good for both side.
Great trade for Reds. You can never have enough pitching.
India is a dead ringer for Frank Zappa
Pita India is finally out of the NL Central.
Seems dumb …
Royals were looking to upgrade 2B, but I had them possibly going after maybe Gleyber Torres, to get some pop from that position. I think India will turn out to be a good player, and Singer will do well for the Reds.
gonna miss india