The Cardinals are facing a major obstacle as they attempt to retool their roster towards a younger (and cheaper) product for the 2025 campaign: they’ve been unsuccessful to this point in their attempts to move on from veteran third baseman Nolan Arenado. It’s against that backdrop that president of baseball operations John Mozeliak revealed yesterday (as reported by Katie Woo of The Athletic) that the club’s payroll situation may not be quite as dire as it seemed earlier this winter.
“(Chairman Bill DeWitt Jr.) is giving me a little bit of flexibility because we haven’t been able to accomplish what we thought we would by now,” Mozeliak said, as relayed by Woo. “He’s been very understanding about what that might look like.”
Mozeliak went on to describe moving a different significant salary like that of left-hander Steven Matz or righty Erick Fedde as not something the club would have to do if they’re unable to deal Arenado. While he acknowledged that making such a deal would be “helpful” from a payroll perspective, he also emphasized that he was not interested in making a deal “for the sake of just trying to get to a number.”
That the Cardinals’ front office won’t necessarily be forced to slash payroll in other areas of the roster if they’re unable to move on from Arenado and his salary is surely a relief for fans in St. Louis who are hoping to see the team compete in 2025. RosterResource currently projects the club for a $148MM payroll in 2025, which represents a $35MM haircut relative to the club’s 2024 payroll. Moving most of Arenado’s contract, which calls for the Cardinals to pay him $27MM in 2025, would come close to doubling the gap between the 2024 and ’25 payrolls. That would surely provide the club with the room below even their lowered payroll capacity to add talent to the bullpen and bring in a right-handed bat who can help balance a lineup that figures to revolve around Lars Nootbaar, Nolan Gorman, and Alec Burleson in 2025.
With that said, it seems as though Mozeliak is not interested in dealing away salary from his rotation in order to make those upgrades to other parts of the roster happen at this point. When he spoke at the Cardinals’ Winter Warmup fan event yesterday, Mozeliak made clear that he values the depth the club currently has in the rotation. With that being said, St. Louis has reportedly expressed some level of interest in reuniting with veteran right-hander Kyle Gibson throughout the winter, and it’s at least plausible to imagine a scenario where the club manages to trade away Matz or Fedde before turning around and re-signing Gibson for a lower salary than that of the starter they dealt. That could create some additional room in the payroll to sign a reliever or bench bat even in the event the club is unable to trade Arenado.
If the Cardinals do end up dealing from their rotation mix this winter, there’s one player in the organization in particular who could be poised to seize on that opportunity: southpaw Matthew Liberatore. A former top prospect who the Cardinals traded for in the deal that sent Randy Arozarena to the Rays, the lefty was mostly used as a reliever in 2024. While he made six starts for the Cardinals in the majors last year, only one of those outings saw the southpaw finish the fourth inning. That’s not stopping Liberatore from stretching back out in 2025, however, as John Denton of MLB.com relayed this afternoon that the lefty plans to work towards starting in Spring Training and throughout the 2025 season.
As Denton notes, it’s hard to imagine Liberatore finding success in the rotation over the long-term without substantial improvement against right-handed hitters, as he’s been torched to the tune of a .292/.368/.510 slash line throughout his career when pitching without the platoon advantage. That held true in 2024 as well, as Liberatore surrendered an ugly 6.16 ERA with a 5.22 FIP against right-handed batters this past season while limiting lefties to a 1.98 ERA and 2.59 FIP. If the lefty can sort his platoon issues out, however, he could be an option worth considering for the club’s rotation mix alongside right-hander Michael McGreevy in the event that the club deals from its rotation without bringing in Gibson or another veteran arm.
Nothing even matters anymore. F the dodgers
Oh, ye of little faith…
Go watch another sport then and stop whining on MLBTR.
Let’s calm the eff down. They overspent on Scott, who isn’t even the best option to close in that bullpen. The league will be fine.
The interesting discussion would be who is the likely starter Saggese at 2B with Donovan in OF or Scott in OF with Donovan in IF. Or is it both with Arenado on Halos?
For all the knuckleheads who yesterday said that Arenado didn’t request a trade. Why would Mozeliak say he’s not interested in “making a deal just to try to get to a number” if the motivation for dealing Arenado wasn’t that he requested a trade?
i do agree. arenado said trade me here, here or here, and nobody is biting. my take is he would be okay playing in stl, they actually still have some promising talent even though it hasnt been good. he could see a zimmerman type path where he wins with a retooled team around him towards the 2030s if he doesnt go somewhere he wants to
I think if he’s going to accept a trade he wants to be sure he’s going to a better situation. The Astros are on the decline and at the time had just traded away their best player. I don’t blame him for not wanting to go there. He wants to go to the Dodgers. If Muncy has a big injury like he did last year I guarantee you a deal will get done. I still think a deal might get done. Mets and Yankees also make sense. He wants to go to a team with a giant payroll that is considered a favorite.
Liberatore has been coming for like 7 years now. At this point he’s like John Cleese in Monty Python and the Holy Grail where he’s running towards the castle and then it cuts and he’s back at the beginning like 5 times. Is he ever gonna make it? Inquiring minds wanna know.
You can distinguish Liberatore’s curveball before it leaves his hand. Until he solves that, he is a lefty specialist.
The most productive power hitter in the lineup will be Wilson Contreras, the lineup will revolve more around him than Gorman. Walker, Winn, Burleson, Nootbar, Donovan, the catcher spot, and yes even Arenado, all seem more important than Gorman.
He hasn’t had a legit chance. 180 innings over 3 years spread out where he gets placed in a role then removed from it for no real reason at all. And if you look at his FIP for his career it’s 4.35 which really isn’t bad. Pretty sure it’s better than Kyle Gibsons without looking it up.
I am not saying he’s a sure thing big league starter. But he certainly could be if given a chance.
Liberatore has a career FIP of 4.35 when given limited opportunities over the last 3 years. Hes not some flawed pitcher he’s already decent and could be better with more support and opportunity.
Who knows what Gorman and Walker will do in 2025. Both have huge offensive potential but both weren’t good last year. Who knows. I do agree Conteras is the teams best hitter.
If Contreras is your best hitter, Sucking is in your future.
Gorman will strike out over 200 times if he gets over 600 PAs. And that’s almost guaranteed. Walker needs to go to a team that doesn’t waste his talent and impede his development.
Liberatore is a flawed player so the Rays found an easy target in the cardinals, because they cant identify or develop talent.
Pretty much right on. Tampa can evaluate pitching. Both he and Gorman have been buses. Still hoping they can live up to the hope and promise, but I have serious doubts.
Both Winn and Burleson should not be in your grouping. Many teams would die to have them.
Maybe you are right, but 2025 will be the test, but I have my doubts.
Did you just call Liberatore Python Sir Lancelot?
@BITA What do you mean no real reason? Liberatore has been given a few different chances, and every time Liberatore has been removed from the starting rotation, it’s been because he sucked.
Also, FIP doesn’t matter much compared to actual results. It’s a decent prediction tool, but that’s it. Even then, its predictions aren’t believable when you have a decent sample size of MLB results that show otherwise like with Liberatore and especially Gibson.
@Unclemike1526 What’s wrong with a guy with a 140 wRC+ last year who only missed time due a couple of freak injuries and still only 32 years oid being the team’s best hitter?
Yeah, I really don’t know why the Dodgers would hesitate adding him. Muncey is more than willing to move to second. When did money become a problem. Want a great opinion, just ask Tommy Edman!
Loberatore has not had a legit shot hes been jerked around.
FIP is the best predictor for future performance. And that’s what we are trying to do here.
Liberatore has 180 innings pitched and should be getting better. Gibson is old and is most likely getting worse.
Finally challenge to stat heads. MLB front offices pay little to no attention to them. They know more!
I think Contreras will be better than Burleson at the plate. I think Winn will regress at the plate a little but given his defesive position and speed, he might be the most valuable overall of them all.
Lan
Uncle Mike and many Cubs fans diss Willson Contreras because as a Cubbie, Willson really sucked as a defensive catcher. I always figured that as a DH or 1B, Willson could become a top hitter. We’ll see if it is true.
Personally, I see the Cardinals as a 4th place team, maybe 5th place if the Pirates bring up a couple of their young prospect pitchers and Bednar gets his act together. Cubs, Brewers and Reds all seem like 83-84 win teams to me right now. But the Brewers always exceed my prognostication and the Reds fall short. I had the number of games that the Cubs would win within two games each of the past two years. I see St. Louis and Pittsburgh as maybe 77 win teams.
Gibson > Liberatore > Lance Lynn (for 2025) IMHO
Not even certain Lynn will be back for 2025
@BITA Wrong! Liberatore has had 2 or 3 legit shots at the rotation and failed miserably every single time! Just last year, he was given a legit shot when either Lynn or Matz was injured and couldn’t hold the job. Then Pallante got a shot and pitched well to keep the job instead.
FIP is NOT the best predictor at all, and it’s not even a decent predictor when a pitcher’s track record consistently proves otherwise.
Those 180 IP are enough to have shown that Liberatore is NOT getting better, as he struggled to get righties out even as a reliever. Even a Gibson who is a litter worse than last year is still a MUCH better starting pitcher than Liberatore, not that the Cardinals have any reason to resign Gibson, anyway.
Liberatore made 3 starts last year. That’s not a legit shot.
If he gets an extended opportunity, which he very well might this year, wait and see.
No, it’s because Willson Contreras is the main reason why John Lester demanded that the Cubs sign David Ross to be his personal C. Lester couldn’t stand all of Contreras hopping around behind the plate, Crazy wild throws to every base that broke Lester’s rhythm and his constant way of catching every pitch back handed thus sweeping a LH slider completely out of the strike zone. Pitchers hate him. And as far as his hitting goes yeah as a C he’s a decent hitter. As a DH or 1B, You’re going to find him an expensive but sub par solution there but hey enjoy that if you like him. I’m happy he’s all yours. Oh yeah, he’s been rated one of the worst framers in history.
@Joel Again for about the 20th time, are you going to provide a link or any evidence of Arenado requesting a trade??
You also claim elsewhere in these contracts that the attendance they report is nor true… You just dismiss anything you do not like to hear and try and change facts. Are you delusional???
I consider Willson’s poor pitch framing as part of his poor defense as a Cub. I think Willson is a talented hitter and I would not be surprised to see him hit 0.270 with 28-29 home runs. Willson might have the best 2025 hitting stats of any NL Central 1B. But yes, overpriced salary if used as a 1B.
That’s because he didn’t request one as far as we know. All they’ve said is that he’s open to a trade, unlike Contreras and Gray.
The motivation is that he is indeed open to it, and it’s easiest way to clear a bunch of payroll while opening up more playing time for guys like Gorman and Saggase. It also gives more IF playing time Donovan, which indirectly opens up more OF playing time for Walker and the glove-first CF duo, Siani and Scott.
Although, given Arenado’s still excellent defense and the uncertainties surrounding the development of Gorman and Walker, keeping Arenado likely makes the team quite a bit better, and I do hope the Cardinals are forced to keep him.
Exactly! I figure when the GM say number 1 2, and 3 are the goals, he is as good as gone. I will miss watching the greatest defensive 3rd baseman of all time!
Sorry but that was Mr. Brooks Robinson. But Arenado is a decent 2nd with Mike Schmidt.
He requested a trade. It’s very clear.
BITA;
in reply from all of us knuckle heads on the Arenado trade request debate, the following quotes are from articles written by Cardinals beat writer, Katy Woo of the Athletic.
Nov. 26; k.w. Mozeliak will not trade Arenado solely for the sake of moving him.
Dec. 9; John Mozeliak/k.w. “these decisions are not something we ever take lightly”, Mozeliak said.
“Arenado is not demanding a trade. He’s not telling me I have to do it, but I think in the best interest of both sides, I’d like to try to find him someplace to land. From a financial standpoint, we’re trying to move our payroll. There are certainly other ways we can do this, but moving Arenado would be a big help”.
He’s not telling him he has to do it. He’s not demanding it.
Sounds like he still asked for it. There was an article earlier in the offsesson where Mozeliak said 1 player requested a trade.
Who do you think that player was????
I will say it again. Why are they trying to move Arenado and haven’t traded anyone else all offseason? Why? If the goal is shedding payroll and only shedding payroll someone else could and would have been traded by now. They havent.
BITA; Good lord man, you even argue with quoted statements from the people themselves. Re-read Mozeliak’s statement from Katie Woo’s Dec. 9th article, it’s spells it out in black & white why they are trying to move Arenado. I know you can read and write, however I do have reservations about your comprehension. Seems like you like to argue for arguments sake, so, no sense in keeping this charade up with you any longer!
Who here is arguing for the sake of arguing? You aren’t even a Cardinals fan.
Your right. The Dodgers are buying their team even more now. Time to play more golf and not worry about baseball. Mo needs to go too.
DeWitts need to go*
If the cardinals would take Jeimer Candelario from the reds I’d love to see Arenado play 3rd base for Cincinnati
They aren’t looking to add money.
Candelario is terrible the Cardinals don’t want or need him. And Arenado isn’t leaving the Cardinals to go to the Reds he wants to go to a winner.
“Arenado isn’t leaving the Cardinals”
Fixed it for you. The teams Arenado wants to play for are teams that have no interest in him playing for them. Hard to make a trade under those circumstances
You are a Red Sox fan. It wouldn’t shock me if he ends up on the Red Sox. I don’t think they are his first choice but they are clearly trying to win and making moves and spending to help that goal. He’s an intense dude I think his personality would work well in Boston and he’s an extreme pull hitter so he could take advantage of the green monster.
That probably only happens if either A) the Cardinals eat a decent chunk of Arenado’s remaining salary, or B) they take a bad contract like Yoshida back in the deal.
For all of Breslow and the front office’s talk about spending to build a winner, aside from Crochet they haven’t done much to convince anyone that that is the case
I don’t think Arenados contract is underwater. And they certainly don’t want or need Yoshida. I agree Boston could spend more thats why I am suggesting they trade for Arenado. They can pay for his contract. They can unload Yoshida on someone else and save some money doing that.
Yup!
Liberatore can succeed if given a chance. He’s pitched a total of 180 innings in 3 years. That’s part of the problem he hasn’t been given a legit opportunity. There have been times where he had a good start or 2 then the team would skip his spot and he wouldn’t pitch for 10 days. He really hasn’t had a fair shake.
If the Cardinals were to trade someone and then sign someone outside the organization I don’t want Gibson I want Scherzer.
Nah. Liberatore hasn’t been good since he was a teenager. He is a loogy in a time when they are obsolete.
Another poor cardinals trade.
No, he’s been given a few different legit opportunities in the rotation already and sucked every time. I’m just glad he’s finally found a home as a decent reliever.
Any times he had a start skipped (without a minor injury) were extremely rare and wouldn’t have affected his overall development. Also, I don’t think he’s ever had two good starts in a row for the MLB team.
One time Liberatore has a chance to start 6 games in a row on normal rest. He got 3 starts another time. Thats not a legit chance for a former top 50 overall prospect.
They should have let him start last year instead of Lynn or Gibson.
BITA, I agree that the team has not given Liberatore a true test in the rotation. However the team has been so frustrating with how they change their plan so quickly on any number of moves. He is a starter, no a reliever, Contreras is our catcher, no he isn’t, Herrera is the heir apparent, no not now maybe never, Walker will be our RF today but tomorrow he is in Memphis. The same with Gorman. Mean what you say and say what you mean. The players have no trust in what they hear from the management and lose confidence and direction.
Yeah I hope that kind of stuff starts to change this year. As you said too much indecision and this hurts players development.
The Cardinals are not a poor franchise by any means, this seems more like playing down to the rest of the division/playing the poor midwest team act than anything else. This team dove head first into free agency last winter and because they didn’t get the desired result, threw a tantrum and cry no money. Get rid of Marmol and you’ll probably have better results with the roster you’ve got
The money issues are coming from 2 places the tv deal which is a mess and lower attendance. These attendance numbers they put out there are false nobody has been going to games lately. I do think Marmol sucks and he will be gone soon.
It’s not the manager. It’s the strike outs of Gorman and little production out of third and first baseman. And not nearly enough production from the outfield. If they can’t hit how’s that the fault of any manager? These people can’t manage their own bank account but the first one they want to blame is the manager. Not his fault people!
Part of the outfield production problem last year stemmed from the manager running ONeill out of town. ONeill outproduced all of the Cardinals outfielders in 2024 and he did it while missing a bunch of games.
The manager does not trade people I just roll my eyes at peoples actual lack of baseball knowledge here.
Marmol did a good job last year with the roster he had. They may not have had a winning record with a lesser manager.
Anyway, they still have a pretty sizable payroll. They just realized that they needed to put more focus back into player development to consistently get back over the hump instead of relying on free agency band-aids, and the lower revenue this past year didn’t help.
I agree Marmol had a good year but I am still ready to move on if the team isn’t at least decent.
Liberatore is closer to a lefty specialist than a starter. 300 point OPS difference is crazy.
Makes sense to me too. Move Deavers. Arenado is a much better player than you think.
Wut
Target next year is Vladdy.
That complicates things
lol Sox aren’t giving 300+ mill to vlad. Not sure why people keep saying this.
Terry Francona kinda looks like uncle fester
That was uncalled for.
Sorry
Francona would probably laugh at that. He’s got a helluva sense of humor.
His ballpark’s a museum,
Cuz no one comes to see ‘em.
He’s got a lousy te-um….
.
(I) haven’t been able to accomplish what (I) thought (I) would by now. Things going pretty, pretty poorly if MoTie let that one slip out. Hard to imagine a proud organIzation like the Cardinals would punt on an entire season and role with a lame duck GM.
You have to remember, they are HQ In Missouri.
Not sure I know what that means. But if you would elaborate, I have an arguement for you.
They’re not punting. That’s why they’re keeping guys like Helsley and Fedde.
It’s more like they’re going for it on 4th Down. If they make it, great. If not, they’ll turn over the roster on downs at the trade deadline and try to do better when receiving the 2026 kickoff.
As for the President of Baseball Ops (not the GM, Girsch, who is staying), does he really count as a lame duck when they already have his planned replacement in house preparing to take over next year?
Trading Fedde doesn’t do much to cut salary, especially if they’re talking about re-signing Gibson.
Yeah trading Fedde only makes sense if the team is rebuilding same with Helsley.
Profitability is sweeping many clubs. Cut payroll and pocket cash. Past big spenders are just that. Some clubs are mortgaging the future for the present, but very few. Building a sustainable pipeline has become many teams mantra. All of it emulates the Rays model. Trade players when they begin to get expensive.
Why unload Yoshida? He has three years at 18M per left and has hit .285/.340/.425 over his first two seasons, not great power numbers but he is going to give you good contact, good OBP, his power numbers can only improve. His contract is about market value, I wouldn’t say it’s underwater.
That defeats the purposes of trading Arenado, cutting most of his salary and opening up more playing time for their young infielders. They’d be better off just keeping Arenado, as he’s still the better overall player.
Cardinals have no clue what to do. They’re stuck with a High payroll they can’t afford because the TV revenue loss. Trying to win now is out the door, trying to survive financially is. No real leadership anymore
If they have a suckie TV deal that is their own fault.Their TV audience is off the charts. They had a chance to create their own. Their payroll is not extreme. Who knows what results 2025 will bring? A test year for sure. But I wouldn’t bet against, Donovan, Winn, Burleson, Contreres, Nootbar, Palante, Sagesse, Gray, Herrera. Pages, Fedde, or Helsley.
Well..I hate to say it but this is going to be a last place team as it is currently constructed. Get creative and shake things up.
Well. if you’re going to finish in last place, do it with a small payroll.No sense in finishing last with a 140 million payroll when 125 million will get you the same thing.
Then it’s a good thing they’re still a much better team than either the Pirates or the Reds.
Cards spinning wheels again
Not sure where all the hate comes from for NA. If the cardinals thought he was that bad on the field or was bad in the club house they would eat money to move him. Anyone who takes him is only on the hook for 21 mil a season and most importantly only has to take on a 3 year commitment. As a cards fan I only want them to trade him so we can get some young guys on the field while the club goes through a rebuild. However, I feel like with him on the team this year the team could compete for the central, which isn’t saying much for the division.
Knowledgeable comment! To be honest, I have no idea why trading him is so difficult to team that is trying win. Clubhouse problem? Only he hates to lose, and is no fun when they don’t, and never does he blame others. I was the same. One thing I know for sure, no matter what happens, he will perform daily at the highest level of his ability!
It’s difficult because teams view him as if he’s cooked. Guys get old quick sometimes
Why in the world would Gibson sign for less than what Fedde or even Matz are making this year?! (This also assumes that they wouldn’t have to eat any of Matz’s salary to move him, which is unlikely.) With the way free agency has gone for decent or better starting pitchers so far, surely Gibson can get a deal for more than a $12M AAV.
Face it, Liberatore has failed as a starter and is only a reliever now. He’d probably even be a LOOGY if it weren’t for the three batter minimum we have now.
After McGreevy, I’d rather see Zack Thompson get another shot at the MLB rotation or try one of the other prospects like Rom, Roby, or Graceffo before circling back to Liberatore.
The Cardinals are not a baseball club that is going broke. They have more money than they know what to do with. They are laughing all the way to the bank because they know this fan base they have are gullible.
Why would dealing Fedde, making $7.5 mil, be financial relief?
He can be replaced by someone making $800K