Andrew McCutchen hopes to return for an 18th season in the big leagues. “I want to continue to play. I think I’m still capable of doing that,” the former MVP tells Jason Mackey of The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
McCutchen has spent the past three seasons playing on one-year deals with the Pirates. The franchise icon has previously suggested he plans to remain in Pittsburgh until he retires.
Asked by Mackey whether he still wants to be a Pirate, McCutchen replied that he “(wants) to win” and added that he needs to show he’s capable of playing well enough to be part of that. While the “(wants) to win” response will be viewed by some as a shot at an organization stumbling to yet another last-place finish, McCutchen concluded by saying he needs to “show that (he) was able to have a good year and still can play the following year and not (fill) in a spot.” Readers are encouraged to view Mackey’s post for the full scope of McCutchen’s comments.
In any case, it’d be a surprise if McCutchen were anywhere other than Pittsburgh next season. The Bucs have not considered trading him at either of the past two deadlines even though he could’ve helped a contender as a bench bat. If McCutchen actually had any interest in leaving the Pirates, they’d presumably have accommodated him in trying to arrange a trade to a playoff team.
The 38-year-old has a slightly below-average .239/.326/.370 slash line with 11 home runs through 437 plate appearances. His numbers have trended gradually down over the past three seasons. It’s not strong production for a full-time designated hitter. Yet he’s far from the biggest problem in a completely punchless lineup. The Pirates have had 17 different hitters take at least 50 trips to the plate. Not a single one has turned in an above-average offensive showing, as measured by wRC+.
Among the team’s position players, only Oneil Cruz and Nick Gonzales have been worth at least one win above replacement, according to FanGraphs. Baseball Reference WAR has impending free agents Isiah Kiner-Falefa and Tommy Pham as the team’s two most valuable position players. It’s a bleak picture.
Even if McCutchen shouldn’t be an everyday designated hitter, the Pirates could surely find room for him on the roster. He told Mackey he still believes he’s capable of playing the outfield despite only starting seven games there this year. McCutchen has had a nice season against left-handed pitching (.282/.359/.398), so perhaps he’d fit best in a part-time DH/corner outfield role that allows whomever is managing the 2026 team to use him more selectively. McCutchen has signed for $5MM in each of the past three offseasons.
As long as McCutchen is willing to play for $5 million (or less) Nutting will keep signing him
As he should.
Cynics here post that Cutch has regressed and shouldn’t return next year, he leads the team in walks.
He’s always drawn more than his share of walks.
Even as a 38 year old, no less
He can still hit LHP. Is it Cutch’s fault the roster is abysmal and he plays nearly everyday?
I agree completely.
Cutch doesn’t play every game because Kelly changes the lineup in the same fashion as his mentor, Derek Shelton.
I think that if he wants to play, he should. He’s earned it. Just not sure if he should be sentenced to playing here
And yes, he has regressed a bit. He’s still likely the best hitter option they have
Kelly again doesn’t have Cutch in the lineup in today’s game. Reynolds is the alternative DH.
Who was demoted to bring up Oviedo?
…..and that’s a damn shame, taking advantage of a long time, loved Pirate. the fact that he’s ok with it is irrelevant.
$5m and a starting job is as much as anyone else would give him. It has been 7 years since he had a 2 WAR season. He will be 39 years old this off season. In the last 6 years he’s had over 2,800 plate appearances and produced 4.4 WAR.
The Pirates traded McCutcheon at the right time.
He has played well for them this time but it could get much worse next year and it would be a shame.
Sorry Pirates fans.
Why he’s one of their best hitters.
Which tells you all you need to know since he is below average across the board and declining consistently.
his 2 doubles, 5 hits, homer and 6 runs batted in over the last 3 games says otherwise
Paul-It was against the Rockies.I hope that he continues it but their pitching staff is one of the worst ever.
Nothing to be sorry about as far as Cutch goes. Dude’s a Pittsburgh legend. As long as he’s either willing to accept a smaller role or the Pirates don’t sign anyone better, he should come back.
He is a waste of a roster space. Pirates need to go in full rebuild mode and see what anyone in the system has to offer as opposed to a soon to be 39 year old taking a spot on the roster. When pirates fans love to complain that the pirates dumpster dive and never make any good moves. Rolling Cutch out is just purely to appease the fans who ironically are demanding change. Offer Cutch a coaching job like 3B coach if his influence in the clubhouse is so important. Obviously his influence the past 3 years on his comeback tour hasn’t done anything.
They literally just did a rebuild.
Pirates have been in a rebuild for the better part of 3 decades (sans the small window that they were actually competitive between 2013-’16).
In reality he isn’t blocking anyone from getting a roster spot. The Pirates have solid pitching prospects but the position players are a ways off
Jeez,when did baseball fans become so cold to sentimentality? Old timer wants to stay in the game, that’s awesome. And besides, when he retires, I’m gonna feel hella old, so we can’t allow that 😉
What happens if he hits 180 next year and wants to keep on playing through the year?
I believe that if Cutch doesn’t have it next year he has the integrity to retire
Are you saying retire in mid year?
“What happens if he hits 180 next year and wants to keep on playing through the year?”
He’ll fit in perfect with everyone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying
Paul-Then as long as long as they have that understanding with him and he agrees to it and they cannot find anyone better then I would not disagree with it.
But DH is an important hitting and power position and for the team to get better I think that the team with all due respect needs to do better than what wil be projected to be the 2026 version of Cutch.
Fans aren’t the brightest of the population. Grown adults rooting for other grown men. Forget sentimentality, Cutch is one of their best players. Look at Pirates stats whatever ones you think are important Cutch will be top 13 probably top 6. Not far off the lead in many other than strike outs. Not hitter is getting mvp roy votes. Heck none even sniffed the all star game. Just being slightly above average makes you a stud on the Pirates.
All you hear about is how cheap Nutting is. How he could spend more. Cutch will get another 5m. Who cares if he declines. Nutting can afford it according to fans not named Richard.
You can’t discount the PR angle in this. Nutting can’t afford another PR disaster
I doubt that he would care but the PR disaster is real if Cutch comes out of Spring Training and hits 180 for the first 30 games.
I don’t know, Mendoza. The bricks. The Clemente sign. The bobbneheads disaster. A lot of negative feelings from even casual fans these days
I don’t think the Pirates care about true baseball fans and old timers who know the game. Their targets are the younger fans so come with friends and family for the PNC experience. To them, Cutch is a “local” hero.
The Pirates should let him play as long as he wants. It’s one of the very few things they are doing right.
McCutchen is one of best players that they brought up and developed into a star player.
This attitude is what makes the Pirates the Pirates.
Its deeply impressive that his career has persisted as long as it has, considering that his last all-star season was a decade ago. His stardom was brief, relatively speaking.
He was a star for 7 seasons – ROY, 5x AS, MVP, 37.6 WAR. Most players don’t even last that long for a career.
He has little to no value for a winning team. They should have a better dh or use it to rest players. So back to the Pirates it is.
Who are the Tigers using as DH vs LHPs? I’m sure Cutch could fit in with some winning team.
No idea. I think they use a rotation of their position players?
5m is a lot for a weak platoon dh only. Not like Cutch is a 900 ops or even 800. Soon to be 39 years old. Seems like a waste of $ to me.
Perfect full time dh for pirates though. They stink. And Cutch is a super star in Pittsburgh. Anywhere else he is just a likable has been. And giving away his cheap bobblehead head isn’t going to put buts in seats.
Cutch farewell tour. Gold glove Cutch bobblehead. All star Cutch Bobblehead head. MVP Cutch Bobblehead. That’s 3 nights Cutch can bring in a crowd. Add final home series as well. Come see Cutch one last time? Friday fireworks. Saturday a Cutch tribute drone show. Sunday Cutch #22 kids bat. Easily worth 5m in Pittsburgh.
And he loves Pittsburgh. Doesn’t want to go anywhere else. Doesn’t need the $. A real contender isn’t likely to want him. Even if they did like you said are they going to pay him 5 6 7 million to be a weak platoon dh? And would Cutch want a ring so bad to do that and have such a small role? And at trade deadline they would be looking to replace him. A 700 something ops weak platoon if he doesn’t decline any at 39.
His comments in yesterday’s PG took Nutting and Cherington to task. How refreshing. The vibe one got was he still wants to play, but not necessarily for the Pirates
I mentioned this the other day that Rumbunter had posted an article that Cutch was unhappy with the lack of contention this season and Dream said that RB didn’t have any credibility
Jose Negron of DK Pittsburgh Sports is the source. It’s fine rumbunter used his reporting but that’s all they did. Fine you read them. But they report the people reporting the news so not a source of anything. When you said it was rumbunter I simply asked where they get it from because they don’t have reporters as far as I know.
It was in the PG yesterday too via Jason Mackey. It’s not far fetched. The guy is at the end of his career and wants to play for a contender. The guy makes his home here.
But it’s logical to think he can play elsewhere for a couple years and retire in the area. Why not?
He’s likely still their best player whether he’s lost a step or not and whether he’s not the hitter he once was. I’d take Cutch over Cruz any day as the heart and hustle are what I like to see, something you never see from most of the young guys
If apathy and looking aloof are your bag, along with pierogi races, this is the franchise for you
I don’t think many or any contenders would want him. And if they do it won’t come with as much playing time as he gets here. I wouldn’t want him. Grichuk Tauchman Hays Pham went for same or cheaper and better and can play field. 39 no thanks. Great for Pittsburgh though
AI-You are thinking like Bob Nutting.
That may very well be the reasons for him not having any qualms about resigning Cutch.
Poor man’s Harold Baines.
Cutch career WAR–49.1
Baines–38.8
I compare him more to Dale Murphy. They are about equals,
And the Pirates will squeeze Skenes for all the booty they can while he’s young and cheap. Run home, Jack!
Does Pittsburgh retire his number with all his crazy loyalty?
They will 100% retire it with a special commemorative bobblehead and fireworks show that night followed by a concert by the Clarks. Every yinzers dream come true. They will probably play the Brewers and for good ol’ times, the Brewers will unleash a flashback of that 20-0 beat down for memories of April 22, 2010 when McCutchen went 1-4 and ironically Daniel McCutchen was the Pirates starting pitcher for that game and batted 8th in the starting lineup.
There is just something about McCutchen ….. As a Phillies Fan, I was shocked to see he only played 1/3 of the games in the 2 of the 3 years he was here. He was just such a big personality and part of the team….it’s just shocking looking back he was not on the field more. I still recall his Rock/Paper/Scissors with the 3b Coach after HRs. He is definiltey a huge clubhouse value add, especially if you have a younger roster. He should 100% be in the Pirates HoF.
Completely agree. Watching Cutch is one of the only joy of being a pirates fan
Good for him. Playing for the love of the game (unlike Anthony Rizzo). That said, considering his last two seasons were basically league average, he should get paid the league minimum… I was also hoping that he was closer to 3,000 hits, but he’s only at 2,223. And at age 38, there’s probably no way that he even gets close.
League avg would equate to league avg pay wouldn’t it? Not league minimum.
I lve McCutch, but to be the Devil’s advocate…At this point, he is DH only, so his utility it lower. We can also assume continued regression.
The reason I want him around and why his value is higher than paper indicates is who he is…his clubhouse presence, how he lifts those around him. If here was a HoF for Humans, he would be a 1st Ballot Candidate. Can never have enough of those..
How much as his leadership helped the Pirates though?
He has hit reasonably well and has been a plus.
But I doubt that his clubhouse presence has helped all that much.
Peguero credits Cutch for his 3 home run game in Colorado
I’d give credit to the altitude in Colorado as a bigger reason he hit 3 homers. He hasn’t hit a single home run since then, August 2nd. Guess that Cutch advice wore off…or we aren’t in Colorado anymore…
Peguerro credits Cutch with working on his swing.
Of course you’ll respond with yet another moronic answer
And what a moronic take to think it isn’t hard to believe the altitude in Colorado played no factor in hitting 3 homers. It’s almost like it’s a big secret with the air out there.
And if Cutch is that good he should be the hitting coach too.
They could certainly use a good one.
Colorado and hrs is a myth. If Colorado makes any scrub hit hrs then they would rank much higher in hrs since they play half their games there. If they just cleared by a few feet than maybe it was Colorado.
Colorado helps more with average ops because the outfield is so big to keep hrs reasonable.
But what has Peguero done since?
No idea. I don’t watch the garbage pirates.
He is 2 for 11 (2 singles) with 4 strikeouts in his last 5 games. Amazing how Cutch’s advice doesn’t work well when not in Colorado weeks later.
Colorado has nothing to do with it. You can hit 3 hrs anywhere and a lot of not good mlb players have done so. Arenado still hit 30 some hrs in STL even in 30s. He didn’t hit 90 some in Colorado even though that’s where he was for his prime years. It helps but nothing crazy. One could easily look at where Colorado ranks in team hr leaders so scrubs aren’t just bashing hrs just because they play in Colorado. Go look. Don’t take my word for it.
96 wRC+
-0.1 fWAR
Basically a novelty act to bring in fans at this point.
Did you know that 20 years ago WAR was never a stat that determined how good a player was?
TM
Of course
Stats don’t determine how good players are.
They measure their performance
What I could never figure out is if 1 WAR is worth $8M then what is -0.1 WAR worth?
ML
“what is -0.1 WAR worth?”
Minor league contract
Good answer
Three days ago in an interview with José Negron of DK Pittsburgh Sports. Cutch discussed a uncertain future with the Pirates and the state of the current organization.
I’m here for your comment.
He can play as long as his legs hold out. And if Kelly doesn’t rest him 2 days a week. I can never figure why Kelly would rest a DH that often. Makes no sense,but then cherrington and Kelly and nutting dint make sense.
He is resting some of the regulars including Reynolds or giving at bats to younger players being evaluated.
Reynolds rarely gets sat even when he is in the midst of a massive slump
Cutch on the other hand gets sat at least twice a week
Jason Mackey is a great beat writer.
One of the few left.
He is no longer a beat writer.
Bonds #1?
Bonds was a pathetic cheater.
Not until he went to San Francisco.
Sidney-Do you know any of the Pirates who are in the HoF?
Is he better than any of them?
Or did life start for you with Sidney Sweeney?
only someone who calls others a cheater is telling us about how he’s lived his life
As a cheat
Best Pirates all time.
1 Honus
2 KG
3 Blackbeard
4 Clemente
5 Stargell
It’s on talent, what they meant to team, what they meant to fans. Seems many fans weren’t fans of Bonds Parker especially after they left as free agents. They blamed the player instead of blaming the historically bad baseball city Pittsburgh where not enough fans showed up to afford to keep them. Cutch I’d put #6
Nope.
Clemente
Bonds
Stargell
Maz
Captain Flint
Charles Vane
AI- I would go with the HOFers first.
Cutch will never be a HoF.
He did not have enough outstanding seasons to make the grade.
He may go down as the second best Pirate in your lifetime, but not 2nd best ever.
Honus Wagner (120.3 bWAR), Roberto Clemente (95.0 bWAR), Willie Stargell (57.6 bWAR) and Barry Bonds (50.3 bWAR) are just 4 of the 11 guys with more career bWAR during their Pittsburgh tenure than McCutchen’s 42.7 bWAR.
Good to hear. MLB fans need a little Cutch.
Al Oliver and Vada Pinson too. Outfielders with similar numbers.
If he could only play outfield 1-2 days a week and not DH. I would bring him back. He can’t do that and is taking at bats from younger player who can’t either perform as good or better I would not. Need to turn the page. Just like Ralph Kiner, we can finish in last place with or without you
Which younger players is he talking playing time away from?
Suwinski plays in the outfield and doesn’t DH
Canario plays in the outfield and doesn’t DH
The only other player who they use as the DH is Reynolds
When Cruz is healthy and miscues plays in the outfield, they use him as a DH in the the following game
Paul- I know that you are very loyal to him but he is not the future of the Pirates.
It was a feel good story and he has done a good job but it should stop on a good note.
They could use that position next year for Reynolds and to rotate young players on audition and give them regular playing time to see if they can improve.
He has been too good of a Pirate to end on a bad note.
Kelly is rotating younger players now.
Simon, Canario and Suwinski.
None have stood out as potential replacements for Cutch.
There’s no one in the minors threatening him either.
I agree that he isn’t the future of this organization but other than Horowitz or Cruz, there’s not many other players that are the future of this franchise
I hope neither of those guys are the future, either, my friend
Cruz needs to be traded now while he has decent value.
I think Keller loses trade value with every start
Yeah, I’m all for burning it all down but aside from Cruz and Keller (and Skenes) who here brings back better prospects?
bad note?
you mean like 2 doubles a homer and 6 runs batted in over the last two games?
Against the Rockies?
The bad note would be for next year.
It would be a PR disaster too.
We can see how he finishes the year and whether he gets any outside offers and whether the Pirates have any other options for next year.
Sooner or later he will crash and you and him will be the last to know.These older players can hit the cliff very quickly.I would hate to see the Pirates have to release him mid year like the Astros had to do with Jose Abrau.
even Tommy Pham at 37 is playing well
Many posters on here especially the negative ones could not stand Pham through the first two and a half months but I knew that he hustled and was a good left fielder and that he was better than he had showed.
His fine record over the last two months when averaged out pretty much shows where he should end up for the year.
I think that there is a chance that he can be signed again as he seems to like it here.
I have watched several interviews of him and he seems to be a fairly bright guy unlike his persona that preceded him and which may have hindered Cherington from getting a decent young player for him.
How this guy plays at this level with the eyesight problems he has is a future movie script
Might have to leave out the strip club stabbing and fantasy football slap.
Makes for a good drama
Paul is 100 percent right. Yes Paul is loyal and loves Cutch but that’s irrelevant. He is one of their best players. Could say he is their best. Whoever has better stats they aren’t better by much. He isn’t blocking anyone. Not even blocking Reynolds at DH. The Pirates outfield is so awful Reynolds has to play there.
I’m a ice cold mercenary. They could put Cutch down right on the field like a old lame horse and Nutting could sell him as glue for all I care. First 20k fans get a Cutch chilli dog topped with your delicious MVP. But he ain’t blocking anyone.
Cutch played right field for several games earlier in the year and looked fine out there. He is a better right fielder than Reynolds anyway. Don’t know why he isn’t out there more often.
Same reason they pinch run for him.
As a DH I don’t think he is worth much anymore if you are trying to win. If however you look at the Pirates continuing to carry guys like Canario, Triolo and Suwinski then hell yes bring him back. He is still better than the deadheads they keep on the roster. He also serves as another coach and probably has more influence on the younger players than do the coaches, since he is still in the trenches with them. If he returns, I hope they play him a little more in the outfield which will increase his value.
At least we know the 1 move the pirates will make in the offseason
At best, a bowel movement.
It’s time for the team and the player to move on. Hanging around Pittsburgh doesn’t do either one of them any good
It makes Cutch 5m richer. Adds to his we need to put someone in the hall this year hey cutch is a nice guy. Kids get to see him play in MLB. Nutting can make a ton of $ off him. He’s stupid and so is Williams so they might not. But they could.
Did he reject her advances? What’s the story?
So you have Cutch over Clemente?, since Honus Wagner is the greatest Pirate of all time.
I loved Bonds when he was here, before PEDs. But over Clemente? Are you just too young or is ignorance your thing?
Bonds superior talent compared to Clemente other than throwing. Bonds just wasn’t a pirate long enough and didn’t win a championship.
Bonds didn’t win one with SF either
I was a kid when Clemente played. Still remember his play and especially the ‘71 series
Bonds was the greatest player I’ve ever seen and been truly cognizant of in Pittsburgh
VanSlyke is the greatest defensive center fielder I’ve seen here. Decent stick, too
I’ll put Madlock as the best 3rd baseman I’ve seen here. Total player.
Stargell, Parker, Maz all are worthy candidates for. GOAT list. And Cutch? Sure he belongs
Old- Bonds was awful in the playoffs.
Clemente was great in both World Series.
I’ll take Clemente.
Yes. No doubt about that
AI-Bonds was very talented but how much did the juice increase that talent?
You did not see Clemente play.I did.
Only thing that Bonds did much better was hit home runs.
He had an awful arm. A Little Leaguer could have thrown Sid Bream out at home plate.The Braves knew that and that is why he was given the go ahead.
Clemente had the best arm that I have ever seen.
They were both very talented players but I do not think that it is clear which one was more talented.
I agree with 90% of this, my friend
But Bonds didn’t juice while he was here
And he and Griffey Jr had the sweetest swings I’ve ever seen
Yeah pirates bonds no juice. Bonds was better hitter. If he focused just on hitting he would have had even better averages but power and walks is superior to average. Arm is by far the least valuable tool.
It’s crystal clear Bonds is the better player. Faster so covers more ground, runs bases better, steals bases. Defense just as good or better with the better speed. Hits, hits with power, takes walks. Should have won 3 straight MVPs but sports writers were apparently restarted back then and gave a scrub the mvp just on batting average.
Except when you need to throw a slow runner out at the plate that a Little Leaguer could do to keep the playoff game tied.
Outfield is good now then. They all have arms
The Venus de Milo outfield
That’s for Mendoza and TheMan, Dream. I think it’ll go right over your head
Mendoza’s right, it was a pathetic throw. I get that seeing Bream going home may have provided an initial shock, but even a marginal throw should have done the trick
And again, let’s not forget Lind’s boot for putting them in that position
You and Mendoza either just like to complain or were 5 tool stud baseball players who always done everything perfect never made a weak throw but quit the game early because you were so great it was boring.
Bonds throws him out majority of the time.
No mlb team would draft clement over bonds. Not even non roid bonds. Not even close. They don’t care about arms. It’s a bonus. They don’t even care about defense. It’s all about the bat.
If I was a five tool player I would have been a gardener because I was not one in high school baseball.
Now second level softball in my early thirties?
Probably.
Bonds had a candy arm and you may be the only one who does not accept that fact.
Him and Van Slyke and Bonilla came up real big for the Pirates under playoff pressure.
They all hit clearly less than 200.
They would have been better off bringing Mendoza back for the playoffs.
Clemente any day of the week.
AI thinks that Venus is a song by Frankie Avalon from 1959.
Bonds was bad under pressure.
I wonder if there is a new age stat for plays under real life playoff pressure.
Bream would have never been given the green light if Bonds would throw him out the majority of the time.
I know that it occurred in the Dark Ages but the Braves had a very good fundamental team and they knew how bad his arm was.
I have to agree with Mendoza about Bonds as much as I thought he was a great player here. And VanSlyke was arguably my favorite player but together with Bonilla, they sure weren’t playoff performers here
I dunno. I get that a 3rd base coach will gamble sometimes and go for it but I think they believed a one legged runner had a better than even shot with Bonds out there at that time.
We talk about Pirates greats and although they were right fielders, Bream has a solid stop sign with Roberto or Parker out there. Big time players come up big at the big moment
5 tool basketball player, maybe
5 tool coach? Definitely
Where did I say Bonds had a cannon again?
They did fine in playoffs. Good years and bad. Was only 3 years and they never won a series so not a lot of sample.
You’re just a Bonds hater. He had a accurate arm and was known for his quick release. He did great in playoffs at the plate 2 out of 3 years. Guy made 1 famous throw that was off target.
You guys are just old and look at batting average.
Bonds 1990 .375 obp
1992 .433 obp
Never seen money ball?
And he stole some bases so turned those walks into doubles. Didn’t get thrown out either. Even hit a hr. And that speed that stole bases covered a lot of ground in the outfield.
In 2002 world series he hit .471
Bonilla .448 in 1991 .300 average
You guys are just haters on the early 90s pirates.
pulling Drabek who was pitching a superior game for Stan Belinda didn’t help matters either
Chico Lind’s error was the back breaker
Drabek looked gassed to be. Problem why was Belinda closer. Year 3 of contending. The final year before Bonds went bye bye. They should have went all out and stacked the roster especially a cheap easy area like the bullpen.
Real problem is the Braves had more $ and were superior team. Braves deserved to win.
It was a shame that those three players came up so short in the playoffs because they were clearly at least fine players.
But it happened three years in a row for Bonds and Van Slyke and two years for Bonilla so it seems like more than a coincidence.
They obviously met very good pitchers in the playoffs especially on the Braves.Management there turned their team around immediately because they were awful in 1990 when Dave Justice was ROY.
I wonder if the new Pirates GM will be able to make that kind of improvement.
I was a guard who couldn’t shoot but had a very quick first step and hustled on defense with good hands.Only a reasonably good small high school player who was first guard off the bench my senior year.
Probably a 2 1/2 tool basketball player who did play pickup games until I was 35.
Pirates drafted second the year Griffey came out and got Mark Merchant who was one of two second picks since the draft started who never made the ML’s.
I did not see any reference to the word cannon.
You love Bonds.
I loved Gary US Bonds.
Don’t know where you were checking but I see with Pirates a 191 average with 1 home run and 3 rbis in 20 games.
Those sound more like Mendoza stats than a HOF.
And Bream would not have been sent if Bonds had an accurate arm with a quick release.
He stunk with the Pirates in the playoffs.
Sorry I forgot that the Pirates made the World Series in 2002.
Internet is incorrect.They lost to the Braves in 1991 also.
But the 191 average which of course is a meaningless stat because you say so is accurate for 20 games which is three years.And the 1 home run for the team’s power hitter which may or may not be a meaningless stat in 20 games does not bring back memories of Henry Aaron.
Ashame braves didn’t win more than 1 world series.
I don’t think there will be a new pirates gm. Cherington gets 1 more year.
If there is a new gm they will be irrelevant for at least 5 years. This teams fate will be determined by Cheringtons players.
No one wanted Mitch Keller. I heard them names the Pirates asked and got rejected for. Sure they could get a top 100 but top 20 30 nope. Reynolds even less value. Cruz should pull something interesting but that will be 1 prospect.
No matter who the gm is it’s Cheringtons team the rest of the decade.
Oh but new gm can make trades. Sign free agents! Trades with Cheringtons prospects. And Cherington problem hasn’t been trades. Nutting giving new gm $? Come on now. And Cherington free agents haven’t been problem. Free agents needed for impact are hard to get and expensive.
Cherington only real problem was development. Now it’s not a problem. No reason to get rid of him. It certainly won’t make a difference.
Remember I fired Cherington in October. So tells you what I thought of him. Amazing what a year can do. He had a amazing year. Just look. Only thing we can complain about is not getting high enough ranked players in Bednar trade. And trading a scrub 5th starter.
The Pirates were our team so we did not hate them.
Bonilla had a bad 1990 and you are correct a good 1991 playoffs.
And both Old Timer and I admit our mistakes if the facts prove otherwise.
Not everybody does.
I was a small forward who was too small for NBA. Didn’t play senior year. Baseball was my ticket to college and football basketball baseball was too much. And got beat up more playing basketball than football.
More tools than me. I could throw a baseball football about it. I was a fake 5 tool player. I can do everything average even above average or good but truly only excelled at throwing.
Bonds arm was weak. But accurate usually and lighting quick release. That makes up for a lot. His throw easily beat bream. It was just a foot too much towards 1b. Really a yard but a foot bream would have been out. Amazing play by catcher to make it so close.
Stan Belinda never was close to the fine closers that the Pirates have historically had in Roy Face,Dave Giusti,Kent Tekulve,Mark Melancon,and even Felipe Rivero.
I used to cringe when Belinda came into the game.
They were both fine equal teams.Either team deserved to win.
And Belinda was mediocre and the perfect reason why any contending team needs a fine closer.
For the Pirates over 20 games their home run hitter hit one home run which equates to 8 over a full season.
The facts prove that Bonds was poor in the playoffs over a three year period and you can argue all day otherwise.
I don’t look at average or rbi. I care about obp ops. Bonds wasn’t great there but respectable. It was 3 weeks. If he was awful or hall of fame it wouldn’t matter because it is 3 weeks worth of data.
We may be old but we have common sense which is not all that common anymore.
Batting average doesn’t equal wins. Why arraez won’t be paid close to what tucker gets
Unfair to compare Bonds to them and quite frankly even today with the supposed better athletes I do not see many fine arms.
But there is a minimum requirement to be able to throw out a relatively slow footed runner when you are running in with your momentum in medium left field.
I was an uncoachable, trash talking street court player playing in leagues around the city in uh, questionable places
I could care less about Moneyball.
That was probably my favorite era, Mendoza, even more than the WS team of ‘79. I liked what AJ brought to the Pirates in his era but yeah, again, VanSlyke is likely my all time favorite and those teams, my favorites.
Disagree with AI. I thought they gave Drabek too early of a hook
But even so, the big 3 were really playoff letdowns
Yeah, Mendoza, and nostalgia ain’t what it used to be
I know that it is the new argument not just in this thread how important walks are.
But should we compare Barry Bonds to Eddie “walking man” Yost?
It is a very important stat for the first and second hitters to get on base and now the eight and nine hitters to keep from making an out.
Not so much for the six and seven hitters if they are good average or power hitters.
But I do not think it important for the three,four,and five hitters because they are the run producers.
Now I know that that reasoning is passé with the Aaron Judge’s of the world leading off.
But that is another argument that I have had regarding O’Neill Cruz.
Many times pitchers will pitch around hitters like Bonds and they are almost forced to accept walks.So it really depends on whether the subsequent hitters are good enough to knock him in.
Well you should care about money ball. It’s because of teams like Oakland and that book that teams stopped using your beloved batting average rbi pitching wins loses. That book made the data you love obsolete garbage. You should hate it but care greatly.
That’s a better athlete than most.
I would have played baseball for nothing since I loved it so much but never had the upper body and arm strength to hit any where near good enough.
One of the worst days of my life was walking up the hill going home after my last American Legion game when I was 19 years old and I realized that my baseball career was over.
I am glad that I had a seven year softball career where I really did excel and surprisingly with power and average.
I enjoyed the team atmosphere and camaraderie that came with it and miss that to this day.
That was Mike Lavalliere aka Spanky who was a very underrated catcher for the Pirates.
Over the big picture maybe.
But to us Pirate fans it signified the start of one of the worst periods for any ML team in history.
And you remember Bonds mostly for his absolutely great years with the Giants.
It is a real shame that guys like him and McGuire and Clemens would resort to those enhancements since they were all HOF’s any way.
That is why Griffey Jr is so admired because he did not resort to that and realized that he did not need to.
Made you tough though.
And you had to learn to play better to have the respect of the other players.
I think that we all agree that we would like to go out and play like that just one time to remember the good times.
I hated to give up Tony Pena but that was a great trade for Pittsburgh.
They got a young pitcher who was really good his first year but faded quickly into obscurity.
They got Spanky to replace Peña and who was a pretty good player.
And they got Van Slyke who solidified the defense and was a pretty good hitter too.
It surprised me that he went downhill fairly quickly after he left the Pirates.
Disagree.
Those stats show a record much better than the M I C K E Y M O U S E stats that are used today.
The problem is that there are these other new stats that everyone but the Rockies use to predict the future.They go into the weeds much more with data and are based on technology that had not been invented until the last twenty years.
The major difference is the data revolution that provides much more data and information in an organized manner that every team would be stupid not to use.But to use this data blindly without proper verification and scouting is doom for the GM stupid enough to exclusively use it.
Can you spell Matt Klentak?
Getting back to the basic historical data,they are still useful to see in general see how a player is playing.It just needs to be verified by some of the other modern data now available.The historic stats are no longer the absolute most respected information that they were the last century.
But they are still useful.
To many people except you.
Yeah I wasn’t too bad. Still not. If I wasn’t a drug addict alcoholic womanizer I probably could at least been a back up qb backend starter. I have as good of arm as anyone who’s ever walked this planet.
I am very realistic though. Why I can fairly evaluate my favorite team as well as myself. I am fast but not NFL wr rb fast. I could hit and with power but not .300 30 hr level. Arm is my only special tool unfortunately.
Not old enough for Bonds Pirates. Apparently he was tired of being the best player and not seen as that because of roid guys. Before roids he was a hall of famer. Easy to see when you started using them.
I would still play. All my friends got married though and wives don’t let them out to play. Got fat and lazy. I’m in better shape now than any time in my life. Friends were done well before 30. Most of them.
Completely useless to me. They would have told me hill Santana stunk which would have been a lie.
I was the phenom pitcher with great control
And that was impressive while the kids with heat struggled with control at the young ages. Problem was for me that they developed control by high school and my heater just didn’t
And I wasn’t a stick
Goodbye baseball. Hello hoops
He longed to be a home run hitter. I’ll never understand that group—Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Canseco—and the juice. And Clemens.
Bonds clearly had an attitude problem with the Pirates.It was well documented.Probably because he was so talented.
He almost certainly would not have wanted to stay in Pittsburgh.But he loved the Giants and always wanted to play for them because his father came up with them and played there for a number of years.
My guess is that he saw others use them and still wanted to be the best player and needed to do so in order to be.
You are basing your decision on one or two data points.
I am basing mine on the sum total but with conditions.
You were the Thomas Harrington of your area.
They wanted to be the best and earn the most money and were greedy about it.
Who knows what the long term physical ramifications are.
I got fat and lazy but not until my 60’s.
Pretty much corresponded with the end of my tennis playing days and retirement.
You spend 90% of your money on wine,women,and song,and waste the other 10% on food and rent.
Yeah pretty much had to do steroids or you were disadvantage. First few people cheated the game but after that if you didn’t take them you cheated yourself out of $ and legacy. Worse is after that. Players crystal clear new they were a no no but still took them and still are today.
Mazeroski won 8 consecutive Gold Gloves at second base and holds the major league record for most double plays by a second baseman
In 1966 he and fellow shortstop Gene Alley set the major league record for most double plays with 215 for a season
We all know Cutch loves the city of Pittsburgh, but i hope he signs with a contending team next year and does well. I think he’s had it with ownership/front office… the Bucs are never going to improve to the point of contending, certainly not in ’26.
Cutch made Pittsburgh his home after he got married to a woman from DuBois.
He’s a local legend but I kind of agree, he should sign with a contender next year.
That would blow the minds of the front office and disappoint his local fans
Maybe that’s what Nutting needs to open his eyes to the damage he’s doing to this once proud franchise
Bucs-That would be the best case scenario to give him a chance at a World Series ring.
But what contender would sign him?
Bessett, the Jays pitcher in today’s game has 8 strikeouts in just 4 innings
Simon, who doesn’t belong in the majors has 2 looking
Even Jack has struck out looking as has Reynolds
But let’s rest Cutch so Simon can prove he shouldn’t be playing in Pittsburgh or Jack who’s too inconsistent to be in the lineup
Paul-I would say that Jack is unfortunately very consistent.
Suwinski, the obvious player of this team’s future struck out 3 times today, once looking and the other two on missed swings
Yet Kelly never thought to pinch hit using Cutch because having a one run lead is good enough
Kelly isn’t the answer but then again, the entire franchise needs a re-structure. What’s going on in the minors were fundamentals, game knowledge and professionalism are concerned? Apparently not much
They are four games under 500 under Kelly.
That is not bad with maybe the worst hitting team this century.
If AI gets his wish and Cherington comes back Kelly will return too as long as the team does not quit and they maintain the record to near 500 under him.
Not my wish. My wish was to fire him a year ago. But since Nutting didn’t and he had an amazing year might as well stick around for 1 more that he is most likely under contract for. I’m a reasonable person. Earn your pay keep and he did so. The dream new gm we are looking for is 2025 Cherington. It took him this long to fix player development but he done it.
Everyone but me wants to fire him. I think I might have given Mendoza enough information to get on board keeping him. Everyone else looks at win loss record. Nutting didn’t provide enough resources for mlb team to win. Nutting said he did though so if he isn’t a lying sack of it he has to fire Cherington right? Nutting provided the resources and Cherington failed. Would be so Nutting too. Development finally after 30 some years got to where it needs to be and he fires the guy who did it.
I think this team can win with Cherington. I mean Skenes Bubba Keller Barco Burrows Ashcraft. What teams pitching you trading this for? Hernandez replaces Skenes or Keller. KG should be mlb ready 2026. Heck looks ready now. Low and high A is loaded with talent. Best the Pittsburgh farm system has been in a long time maybe forever. I’m not a historian and before the draft it was the wild west. KG best prospect since Bonds. And with Bubba Hernandez in system they don’t have to trade Alou for Zane Smith.
I think they keep everything in place for another year. Nutting fiddles as the Pirates burn
Yeah, they have pitching in the farm. They have KG. Anything else?
I am not on board with Cherington but I do understand your point.
Sometimes it takes awhile to do that.
For what it is worth I do look at the minor league team records and although not a true barometer they have clearly improved this year.
I am not convinced that the minor league development team still is any good but perhaps the changes that he evidently made at the beginning of last year may be yielding better results.
And,yes,keeping Shelton that long was a bone head decision.
And yes,maybe the lower levels are loaded with talent but will it be developed unless it is the pitchers.
I saw his weekly interview yesterday and he is a bright guy who has no one really experienced in the organization to bounce things at his level off of.He seemed down thinking that it may be his last month ever as GM of a ML team.
But he still does dumb things many of which I have mentioned.
You are correct in saying for the last three years that you need to have someone in advance to replace him.
If Nutting does not as he is often clueless maybe you will get what you said.
I will then have to plead the fifth to Old Timer if they do not fire him as I have believed Dejean K in this regard.
Oh yeah. Handful of above average to good hitting prospects. 2 no doubt ss who could hit just maybe not with power. Couple power bats. Defensive catcher who could hit. Best farm ever been.
But will they be developed?
They have been so far.
Scoops was a fine player.The rare one who became a decent center fielder after being a fine first baseman.
I liked Oliver despite his constant carping about being platooned. Some exciting teams during his stay here
The proof will be when and if they become at least reasonably good ML players.
Before then it is just conjecture.
And the track record is not good.
Once you unplug the sentimentality, an extra million or two could land a more productive player. Not that I put a ton of faith in SportTrac, but if Cedric Mullins is available between $7 to $8 million, I’m more apt to want him than Cutch.
However, if you really feel compelled to have a righty, those bats are pretty thin, Cutch may very well be the best available, only Goldy has comparable numbers among players in the same relatively price range.
My question to Cutch would be to hear his wishlist for players to bring in. It’s not like the upcoming class is chock full of great players. The few good ones who might be available are $25+ million AAV guys who are going to want term, opt-outs and player options — all things that would prevent the Pirates from even attempting to lock up any of their young talent.