Twins catching prospect Wilson Ramos, according to Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus, became "one of the better trade chips in baseball" when Joe Mauer signed his eight-year extension. Goldstein ranked Ramos #65 overall among prospects. Baseball America put him at #58, while ESPN's Keith Law has him at #42.
In their 2010 Handbook, Baseball America wrote that Ramos is "almost big league-ready and has significant upside." All three outlets consider him an aggressive but above-average hitter with a cannon for an arm. Though Ramos missed almost three months with injuries in '09, he hit .317/.341/.454 at Double A and played well in winter ball.
Asked what the Twins should do with Ramos, Law recently said, "Trade him. And I don't mean for Heath Bell." Austin Jackson, Tim Alderson, Carlos Carrasco, and Jason Donald, Chris Perez, and Aaron Poreda are examples of prospects ranked in the #40-60 range on 2009 prospect lists who were recently traded for veterans. Each deal had its own nuances and additional parts, but the prospects named were typically headliners. They were used to acquire Curtis Granderson, Freddy Sanchez, Cliff Lee, Mark DeRosa, and Jake Peavy, veterans with varying contract situations.
Clearly Ramos can help bring in a major piece for the Twins. As Law indicates, it's not worth spending that chip on a reliever. A third baseman or an ace starting pitcher would make more sense, but at this point I can't find an appropriate name for the Twins to pursue. They may choose to let Ramos spend all of 2010 at Triple A and evaluate their needs in the offseason.
Match up with the D-Rays?
the other problem is that now that the twins have locked up a bunch of money, they’re not going to be able to throw money at a newly acquired 3b/ace. all the other names you have listed were due for pay raises/hitting free agency.
The type of trade that the Twins are going to have to make in this situation is going to be very different from all the others you have listed – to a point that a package that involves heath bell could make sense.
Heath Bell is due for an arbitration pay raise next year, too. Do the Twins want to pay Bell and Nathan $10+MM each in 2011?
Id love to see the Red Sox try and trade for him. Although Im not sure what the Twins would ask for from the Sox.
Bucholz?
Id be tempted. With Lackey, Beckett and Lester all locked up and Kelly, Stomly, Doubront etc in the minors, Buchholz is potentially expendible.
From what I read about Ramos, his only real weakness right now is his plate discipline, which can be worked on.
Strong on offense AND defense. I dream of the Red Sox having a catcher who can throw runners out again.
Aha. That’ll be the day.
I’m sure it would be starting pitching but they would be extremely reluctant to deal Kelly or Buchholz. So who would that leave? Bowden? Stolmy Pimental? Felix Doubront? I figure one of those would be a starting point.
METS GET – Wilson Ramos
DIAMONDBACKS GET – John Maine
TWINS GET – Connor Jackson(who can play 3rd)
You are obviously a mets fan. That trade is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
The diamondbacks aren’t going to give up Conor Jackson. He’s too important to the Diamondbacks’ offense. The Diamondbacks’ offense really suffered last year with out his 370ish OBP.
When was the last time Conor Jackson played 3B? In AA? High school? It amazes me how people are so quick to just move guys all over the diamond. That deal would never happen.
A Heath Bell for Ramos deal makes the most sense for both teams. Bell fills what is currently a major hole, and Ramos gives the Padres a young catcher (considering Nick Hundley probably won’t amount to more than a back-up).
If Nathan returns 100% next year (a long shot considering it generally takes 18 months to fully recover from Tommy John surgery), I have no doubt the Twins could find a taker for Bell’s services. Teams like the Diamondbacks, Nationals, Marlins, Cubs, Cardinals, Indians, Orioles, and Blue Jays all need upgrades at the closer spot.
Make it Oliver Perez instead of Maine and you have a deal.
Maybe they match up with the Pirates for Pedro Alvarez? Although, they would only do this if Andy Laroche could stick at 3rd, which isn’t looking like to big a possibility at this juncture.
The Rays may be a good match here for someone like Reid Brignac, who could play 2B for Minnesota.
The Pirates already have a nice catcher coming up by the name of Tony Sanchez.
Ahhh, totally slipped my mind. Oh well, thanks for the headsup.
Sit on him for a year.
On the off chance that Mauer gets hurt Wilson can play in MN, otherwise he can play in Rochester and improve. In the offseason he can be traded for someone to replace Pavano or Hudson or Valencia (if he craters) or Cuddyer or Young. In general, see who is leaving this winter and move Ramos for a young replacement. We’re waist-deep in young OF and pitchers but utterly missing good infield candidates.
Bill Smith doesn’t really seem willing to pick up a contract in a deal, the Twins would much rather trade young for young and swap even talent levels. Given the recent deal with Milwaukee, I see a Ramos for Gamel trade as a very distinct possibility, specially if Casey McGehee can put up a respectable first half.
Either way, I don’t think anything happens until July.
Don’t think you are looking at ace material here. I would think a pitcher in the 3/4 slots is much more likely. And with the Twins they already have enough of those types of guys. Don’t see him being moved for pitching.
3rd would be a nice opportunity for an upgrade but who’s available? Nobody terribly exciting. Maybe another blocked prospect?
I think Bell would be a nice move but you have a problem come next year. You would need to move either Bell or Nathan or have the most expensive set-up man/closer combo in baseball. Not likely for a team like the Twins.
I can see the Reds and Twins matching up.
Wilson Ramos for Yonder Alonso.
That is a great trade suggestion there because the reds need a catcher for the future and Alonso is a slugging first basemen who has been tryin to learn the outfield and even a little third but i dont think he would good at third he is to big and he is lefthanded
I thought of that too, but Alonso falls into the same problem with the Twins – blocked by Morneau.
Ramos for Lowell straight up.
Yes, that was entirely, 100% tongue-in-cheek. It depresses me that I know having this disclaimer right here is completely necessary, otherwise I’m going to have about forty people spouting “Typical Red Sox fan…” in about fifteen minutes.
OMG TYPICAL RED SOX FAN!!1!u
You know what’s sad? You are correct…
I would bet money that no less than three people got a good few sentences into a rant about it before noticing the followup.
How about for Cliff Lee mid-season if the M’s are struggling?
This site needs a “dislike” button.
With the stocked far system the Twins have, they should take their time with this one. There really is no challenge in the division this year for them unless the Tigers get hot and as the year moves on they will be better able to identify their needs and address them. If this is any other division in baseball you might have to make a move earlier, but not in the Central.
I really don’t think the Twins will be looking for starting pitching.
Currently they have : Scott Baker, Kevin Slowey, Nick Blackburn, and Francisco Liriano who are all multiple years away from Free Agency. And Kyle Gibson will probably be in the rotation by Summer 2011. With long-term holes at 2nd and 3rd, I would think they would try for something there.
Not necessarily. They could go for a top of the rotation guy. That’s a lot of young talent, but not all of them are sure things (I really like Baker and Slowey though).
Are there any young, top of the rotation guys, who ARE sure things – who, furthermore, are available?
No.
What’s your point? So yes, top of the rotation talent is scarce, and aren’t guarantees. So? I mean, the Marlins will probably be wanting to deal some guys like Johnson and Nolasco just to name a few. Boston might let go of some pitching, although unlikely. Just because they are rare, doesn’t mean they are not present altogether.
I actually threw out nolasco as a possible fit. I’m just saying its a bit silly to say “trade him for a young cheap proven ace”. The very few that match that profile aren’t easily moved.
He’s not worth an ace, you are correct, but a package with him in it is conceivable. The Red Sox might me enticed to give away Casey Kelly for him with the right package.
The I’m embarrassed to be a Met fan after reading the post that said Maine for Ramos.
The Red Sox or Rays seem like the most logical trade partners because of their depth in pitching prospects, but how about possibly Fernando Martinez? I love Martinez, but catcher is a much harder position to fill than OF. And please don’t feed me that “oh he’s a bust, look at Milledge, Escobar, etc.” The guy is 21, was Caribbean WS MVP and had an amazing spring training.
Anyone know the Twins outfield depth?
Josh Thole says hi !
Twins OF is deep. Two of their top prosepcts + Span have it covered well into the next decade.
Outfielders are the last things the Twins need. Right now they have Delmon, Span, Cuddyer, Kubel. With Tosoni and top prospects like Ben Revere and Aaron Hicks in the minors.
Twins should package Ramos along with Blackburn, Baker or Duensing add in another mid level prospect and look to deal for a legitimate Ace. Zack Grienke anyone 😉
You are out of your mind if you believe the Royals would take that package.
What about the red sox as a fit? If he’s supposedly ready soon, he could be the 2011 opening day catcher, resign V-Mart and shift him over to first, Youk back to third. We all know V-Mart won’t stick at catcher for the entire duration of his next contract, why not get a catcher of the future now who can supposedly throw out baserunners (something Martinez is a liability at) and preserve his bat and the length of his career by shifting him to first? Youk easily slides over to third, the position he came up playing and played a significant amount of innings last season. Question is who would Boston give up? Papelbon is not an in season trade candidate, even though Bard might soon be ready, Boston’s a contender and cannot afford to see him fail at closing. Then again you could trade Bard, but Ramos would not play yet because he’d be blocked by Beltre, and in the end they’d be giving up a valuable piece of the 2010 contending roster for a player who would only be making an impact in 2011. Would a prospect-for-prospect deal work out?
No.
The best catching prospect in the game not named Buster Posey or still too young to buy a pack of cigarettes will not be moved for prospects.
Why not? A prospect for prospect swap could benefit both teams. It’s not like Ramos is the best prospect in the game and I’m proposing a Heyward for F-Mart swap. Now that I look at the Sox farm system, no one other than Casey Kelley really matches up with Ramos, the rest of their good prospects are outfielders, and I’d rather hold on to Kelley. And Ramos is absolutely NOT the best catching prospect not named Posey. Carlos Santana, Jesus Montero and Jason Castro all say hello… not to mention Ramos has never played a game in AAA or hit over an .800 OPS at any level in the minors once (unless you count the five total games in Rookie ball last season)
I was thinking KC… can Ka’aihue play something other than first though?
This is pretty much what I’ve been saying for weeks. Ramos can bring in a much bigger fish for a much bigger hole than closer. Plus, right now, we’re only down a closer for one year (though no guarantee on Nathan being effective/good when he gets back). We’re down a 2nd baseman and an ace for possibly years to come.
There is zero reason to rush on this. Ramos likely won’t lose any value playing in AAA, but he could greatly gain value doing so. Plus, if Mauer gets hurt, we’re not screwed.
Frazier or Lawrie?
Ramos stays in AAA all year and hopefully builds up value, then maybe the Twins can try to make him the center piece in a deal for Josh Johnson if the Marlins decide to shop him.
No chance, it’s not like they JUST signed him to an extension.
There is no way the Twins trade Ramos. Catching is a premium position that many teams just throw someone in there who can play decent defense, manage pitchers and hit low in the batting order. They will use Ramos along with Mauer starting after June 1 when Ramos loses a year of MLB eligibility. Ramos will catch some games and Mauer will DH when they need to give Kubel or Thome the day off. In a few years expect to see Mauer spelling Morneau at 1b when Ramos catches. The Twins rarely trade their top minor league players for established MLB one’s and won’t start now that they have extra revenue coming in.
No. Ramos needs to play, and there are already guys sitting on the bench waiting to hit. (Thome doesn’t need a day off. All his days are off already. He needs to find days to play.) Plus they have Jose Morales already, a good hitting backup who can catch well enough but isn’t going to get a lot better. Ramos isn’t near his ceiling, but the other backup candidates are, so Butera is going away when Morales’ hand heals, and Ramos is going to stay in Rochester and play every day so he continues to improve.
Nolasco?
Just throwing it out there. Haven’t actually done much research into it yet.
Fish are having discussions with Nolasco about an extension. They’ll make an offer if he has a solid 2010.
Interesting though, since Nolasco’s last year of arb is 2011. He’s also a potential ace with serious K/9 rates. Meanwhile, Skipworth hasn’t panned out so the Fish have no real prospects at C.
Ramos stays in AAA this year, then MN moves Delmon Young in the off-season, Kubel moves to the OF and Ramos and Mauer move between the DH and C position, with Morales on standby/PH duties.
Hell, if we’re gonna put Ramos at C and move Joe out from behind the plate, I’d rather have him in left than Kubel. I love Jason but he’s a DH.
I’m getting kind of annoyed that people are forgetting about Morales too. That kid can hit just fine and he’s ACTUALLY the backup for Mauer. Ramos is at best 3rd, probably 4th behind Morales and Butera…
this was the first blocked prospects article in 2 years…wow
How about Alex Gordon for Ramos