The Astros have made a major push to find suitors for Roy Oswalt, according to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney. It appeared yesterday that talks between the Phillies and Astros slowed down when Oswalt demanded that his 2012 option be picked up in any trade.
Olney reports that Oswalt would like the chance to pitch in St. Louis, and that preference may become a factor. Craig Calcaterra of NBC Sports reported last night that the Cardinals are, in fact, frontrunners for the righty. Meanwhile, MLB.com reports that Oswalt would love to pitch in St. Louis and might not even require that his option be picked up if the Astros work out a deal with the division rival Cards. Here are the rest of your Roy Oswalt rumors, with more to come throughout the day:
- Jayson Stark of ESPN.com talks to an anonymous official from an AL team who predicts that Oswalt will drop his demand about his 2012 option: "In the end, I don't believe the guy is going to insist on getting that option picked up. He wants out. And if he really wants out, that's going to change." Stark also notes that St. Louis has offered "two young players off their major-league roster" for the Astros right-hander.
- Zachary Levine of the Houston Chronicle reports that the Twins are showing an interest in Oswalt.
- Jamie Moyer is out indefinitely, but GM Ruben Amaro Jr. told MLB.com's Todd Zolecki that the Phils will replace him internally this weekend (Twitter link).
- Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch hears that Oswalt has told the Astros that the Cardinals are his "first choice." However, a Cards official told Goold that adding a premium player is a "longshot" at this point.
- The Cardinals want the Astros to take on a significant chunk of the $24MM or so remaining on Oswalt's contract, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (via Twitter). The Phillies are still involved in talks for Oswalt.
- The Cardinals have discussed possible Oswalt trades with the Astros, but the two clubs have struggled to find a fit, someone with close knowledge of the talks tells Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. The Astros like Shelby Miller, but aren’t sure if they want the Cardinals prospect to be the centerpiece of a deal. It isn’t easy to imagine a situation that satisfies all of Oswalt’s demands and all of the Astros’, but Rosenthal and Morosi say it’s too early to count the Cards out.
- One GM tells Jon Heyman of SI.com that the Oswalt-Cardinals talks are "very real" (Twitter link).
- Cards vice president of scouting and player development Jeff Luhnow did not call pitching prospect Shelby Miller untouchable yesterday, according to Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. That doesn’t necessarily mean anything, since Miller would be tough to obtain whether or not the Cards publicly label him ‘untouchable.’ Strauss reports that Oswalt has told acquaintances connected to the Cardinals that he would be flexible with his 2012 option if traded to St. Louis. Presumably that means he wouldn’t demand that the Cards pick it up.
- Brad Lidge tells Paul Hagen of the Philadelphia Daily News that he would call Oswalt, a former teammate, if it helps bring him to Philadelphia.
3 team trade.
You thought of that all by yourself?
Phillies have to get this deal done for Oswalt. if they have to guarantee his 3rd year, do it. this season is over if they dont get a front line pitcher. I dont think Haren is worth trading for and i dont like anybody else out there.
Totally disagree. Oswalt’s contract is a bear.. With Ibanez and Werth gone they’ll need to sign another outfielder for 2012 (or even 2011, if Ibanez is completely shot), not to mention either resign JRoll or look for another SS after 2011. Haren’s contract is expensive but worth it. Oswalt – NO.
By 2012 they should have another outfielder up through their farm system like Anthony Gose, Tyson Gillies, Domingo Santana, or Jiwan James. I’m sure they can figure something out between those four.
Or… Dominic Brown?
Domonic Brown will be playing right field. I was referring to Raul Ibanez’s replacement in left field in 2012.
By 2012 they should have another outfielder up through their farm system like Anthony Gose, Tyson Gillies, Domingo Santana, or Jiwan James. I’m sure they can figure something out between those four.
yea but this is just like ruben amaro, never gets a big deal done without tradin someone awesome, or the trade falls threw withen two days
and how are they going to do it? give up Happ and the prospects Werthless brings in? Won’t be enough.
If if Oswalt comes to Philly, we’d lose games 2-1 instead of 6-1. Can’t win many games when your offense is scoring less than 2 runs a night!
lol amen brotha. I’ve been saying this for weeks now. All these fairweather fans wanna whine about Cliff Lee, yet that isn’t the Phils main problem right now!
Turns out Chase Utley is pretty important.
Chase Utley was in the lineup throughout June, when the Phils also couldn’t score a run to save their lives.
Turns out Chase Utley is pretty important.
i dont think houston would send oswalt to StL. the stros are probably leaking that the cardinals are front runners to put pressure on philly.
Trading roy to the cards isn’t exactly trading him to a contender. Even optimistic fans put us 3-5 years from contention, so let him go to st louis, win a ring, and retire after 2012 which he keeps saying he wants, and then hopefully we bring up some talent, make some good signings after lee and lance free up some additional salary, and go for the series in 2014
Stop making me think Astro fans are intelligent and level-headed, dammit!
We can’t all be angry cubs fans. 🙂 Gotta dig into the division rivals. . . after all, it’s only been. . . a century? Yeah, about that.
Well, this’ll be interesting. Cardinals system is barren unless they’re willing to part with their #1 pitching prospect for an aging ace. Also, why should Ed Wade acquiesce Oswalt by trading him to a division rival? He had a deal in place with the Phillies that Oswalt scuttled by being a diva (“I want my option picked up if I’m going to Philly, but trade me to St Louis and I’ll work around that part”).
Its good business. Philly is a powerhouse team no doubt, but if anyone knows how good the cards are it’s roy. The phillies are a risk at 8 games out, but the cards are practically a given, especially the way their top 3 are going. Hate garcia if you want, but he’s got good stuff this year. If he’s gonna go to philly for a likely chance next year he may as well make money, but he can surpass the money for a definite shot this year. Good baseball mind, roy.
St Louis has an 8-game winning streak, all at home. They’re 20-26 on the road. Even with said winning streak, they are only 1.5 games ahead of Cincinnati…and if the Reds overtake them, Cardinals will find themselves back in the thick of that 6-team monster fighting for the wildcard. I’d say their postseason is hardly “a given.”
the reds are good this year, but until they throw the last pitch of the season I’m not willing to bet they can maintain this success. They’ll have their slump, and the cards will have their run, and then it’ll flop again, but after 162 games the cards will be on top. The redds don’t have the track record to make anyone think any differently. They’re the same team they were last year, essentially, with upgraded pitching from some young guys who probably won’t finish the season as strong when they start to tire. The cards post season is fairly comfortable
“some young guys who probably won’t finish the season as strong when they start to tire”
Jaime Garcia says hi
yeah, jaimes gonna get tired, but with carp, waino, and roy, you can afford a tired 4th guy. your 4 and 5 holes arent supposed to produce anyways, not on ace level. baseball is a game where winning 60% is a great year. the cards are more than capable of taking the division now, and would only be better with roy
Plus with Lohse possibly starting a rehab assignment next week, Hawksworth showing he can be near league average after his past 5 starts and the possibility of Penny returning at some point, they have some options if Garcia wears down or is shut down because of a need to limit his innings.
Plus with Lohse possibly starting a rehab assignment next week, Hawksworth showing he can be near league average after his past 5 starts and the possibility of Penny returning at some point, they have some options if Garcia wears down or is shut down because of a need to limit his innings.
yeah, jaimes gonna get tired, but with carp, waino, and roy, you can afford a tired 4th guy. your 4 and 5 holes arent supposed to produce anyways, not on ace level. baseball is a game where winning 60% is a great year. the cards are more than capable of taking the division now, and would only be better with roy
Jamie Garcia also says check out my ERA, which isn’t just tops among rookies, but among the entire NL.
“some young guys who probably won’t finish the season as strong when they start to tire”
Jaime Garcia says hi
the reds are good this year, but until they throw the last pitch of the season I’m not willing to bet they can maintain this success. They’ll have their slump, and the cards will have their run, and then it’ll flop again, but after 162 games the cards will be on top. The redds don’t have the track record to make anyone think any differently. They’re the same team they were last year, essentially, with upgraded pitching from some young guys who probably won’t finish the season as strong when they start to tire. The cards post season is fairly comfortable
I wouldn’t say it’s a given either. The old saying “anything can happen” applies. However, it’s safe to say that the Cardinals were the definition of under-achievers in the first half, and the Reds over-achieved by a fair margin.
For nearly the entire first half the team struggled. Holliday slumped, Pujols wasn’t the Pujols we were all used to, Freese was a pleasant surprised until his injury, NO production from SS/2B, Yadi struggled with the bat. The only position players to perform at or greater than expected were Rasmus and Ludwick (also injured).
Of course the biggest positive surprise was Garcia, but his success has largely been offset by the injuries to Penny and Lohse (who were replaced by Jeff F’n Suppan/Hawksworth/Walters).
Boggs has been great in the ‘pen, but Reyes has struggled and I will never be comfortable so long as Ryan Franklin is the closer.
“Yadi struggled with the bat”
How does this fit in with the Cards “underachieving” in the first half? All his value is in his defense – he’s not a good hitter (career .685 OPS)
His career OPS is skewed by how awful he was with the stick early in his career. He made a lot of progress the last two seasons before regressing this year.
Career, sure, but over the last two years (’08-’09) he’s been .299AVG/.745OPS, so this year has been a marked falloff from that trend. All signs had pointing to his bat finally coming around, so this year has confounded expectations.
“Yadi struggled with the bat”
How does this fit in with the Cards “underachieving” in the first half? All his value is in his defense – he’s not a good hitter (career .685 OPS)
First of all,
You can write off the first half struggles with the way they’re playing right now. They seem to be clicking on all cylinders. Sure, Pujols wasn’t hit normal .330, 30 HR, 80 RBI guy that he normall is in the first half. But he was still hitting over .300, hovered around 20 HR and 65 RBI. Hard to call those bad numbers. He’s just spoiled everyone every other year with stellar numbers so people who don’t know much mistakenly called his first half “bad.”
They historicall never have much production up the middle or behind the plate, so it shouldn’t be a surprise that it’s that way. LaRussa would much rather have defense up the middle and let his corner infielders and outfielders do the run producing, which they’re doing.
Holliday is on a tear right now and Pujols will be Pujols. Rasmus can hit, Ludwick is having a nice season, and it’s no question their SP has been the reason they’re in first place.
Adding Oswalt would make this rotation the best in the NL, hands down. Lohse is an uncertainty in my opinion, so I’m not counting on him to make much of an impact this season.
But as it looks right now, even just sitting 1.5 up, you have to think that that lead will grow even larger the second half with the team playing like they are right now.
I wouldn’t say it’s a given either. The old saying “anything can happen” applies. However, it’s safe to say that the Cardinals were the definition of under-achievers in the first half, and the Reds over-achieved by a fair margin.
For nearly the entire first half the team struggled. Holliday slumped, Pujols wasn’t the Pujols we were all used to, Freese was a pleasant surprised until his injury, NO production from SS/2B, Yadi struggled with the bat. The only position players to perform at or greater than expected were Rasmus and Ludwick (also injured).
Of course the biggest positive surprise was Garcia, but his success has largely been offset by the injuries to Penny and Lohse (who were replaced by Jeff F’n Suppan/Hawksworth/Walters).
Boggs has been great in the ‘pen, but Reyes has struggled and I will never be comfortable so long as Ryan Franklin is the closer.
St Louis has an 8-game winning streak, all at home. They’re 20-26 on the road. Even with said winning streak, they are only 1.5 games ahead of Cincinnati…and if the Reds overtake them, Cardinals will find themselves back in the thick of that 6-team monster fighting for the wildcard. I’d say their postseason is hardly “a given.”
Oswalt shouldn’t require a blue-chip prospect, unless Houston takes on a tremendous amount of salary. His age and salary are two big red flags.
IMO, Houston should expect salary relief and a package built around a raw, but potentially high-upside, prospect. The Card’s have a couple of 1B prospects that are obviously blocked who have potential big-league bats, some toolsy OF types that haven’t seen their talent reflected in their stats, and a plethora of RH relievers.
Obviously the ‘Stros will probably want more from the Cards. However, Card’s should NOT include Miller in a trade. He’s no sure thing, but with a potential monster Pujols contract the Cards will need all the cost-controlled youngsters they can get in a few years.
If it isn’t Shelby Miller, this deal is not happening. Salary relief is the tip of the iceberg.
If it isn’t Shelby Miller, this deal is not happening. Salary relief is the tip of the iceberg.
No Shelby Miller? No trade. The Cardinals’ farm system is a wreck, so Miller is a must.
I’d be seriously surprised if the ‘Stros acquired a blue-chip prospect without picking up the tab on a significant chunk of Oswalt’s salary. He’s had a great bounce-back year, but he’s soon-to-be 33 and makes a ton of cash. This isn’t back in the early 2000s where teams traded top prospects for aging high-priced vets. Salary relief is very valuable in today’s market.
I expect the Astros to send some cash (not an outrageous amount, though). I also expect them to demand a very good return for their best pitcher in franchise history having one of the best seasons of his career.
His age has been overstated in importance. The aging curve does not work the same way for pitchers as for hitters; many pitchers remain just as productive into their late 30s. More important is velocity and injury history. Oswalt’s velocity is sitting right at his career average level, and he’s made at least 30 starts every year since 2004.
The contract is also overstated in importance. John Lackey is a worse pitcher than Roy Oswalt with a worse injury history, and he got a $82.5MM over five years contract in the off-season, which is more money than Oswalt per year on average, and a lot more years.
I don’t agree with that. Age is very important in regard to pitchers – many, many more have sudden drop-offs or injuries after 30 than remain productive late into their career. Certainly Oswalt has the track record, but he’s also thrown a lot of innings/pitches. Maybe that means he can handle it, but it could also mean that he’s more susceptible to injury. The point is, there’s some risk there that’s magnified by the $16 million a year.
You raise a good point with the Lackey comp. Although, I think that contract will end up being a good example of why you shouldn’t give a 30+ pitcher that kind of money.
To a team like the ‘Stros with a ton of high-priced vets, shedding that much salary should be very valuable.
That’s why Oswalt’s contract is a good balance, though. You’re getting more than a half season rental, but you’re not getting locked into a really long term deal. Assuming he doesn’t demand his option to be guaranteed, the worst you’re looking at is one year with your payroll bogged down by his contract in the event of serious injury.
The team option is nice, too, because if he’s still healthy and productive at the end of next year, it’ll basically function like the ability to get an ace on a one year deal. And if he’s not healthy or his productivity plummets, you can get out without further damage.
A “wreck” is hyperbole. It’s been depleated of blue chip prospects, certainly, but there are still young players able to contribute on the major-league level (as has been illustrated by Jay and Craig recently), and others who have progressed well and show significant upside. Believe it or not, teams don’t just take Baseball America’s word for it, they actually scout other team’s farm systems themselves…
Correct. Jay and Craig are the most obvious examples, albeit small samples. Boggs is also very young and has been a bullpen force. Salas and Sanchez are potential closer prospects. They also have some talented young catchers with positional questions and blocked first basemen with potential big-league bats. Also, if they sign Cox and Matias is approved they will suddenly have three blue-chippers with the (unlikely) potential for a fourth should they somehow sign Wilson.
There is nothing you guys have mentioned which the Astros don’t already have in plenty. We have tons of grade C prospects without huge upside but with a chance to be decent big league contributors. We don’t need more of them; we need impact prospects, even if they are in the lower minors & far from being major league ready. That’s why the Phillies are a better fit.
My whole point is that Oswalt isn’t necessarily worth an impact prospect. He’s got the talent, but that is offset to an extent by his age and contract. With the money issues and youth movement in today’s game, getting a blue-chip guy for him is no sure thing. Especially without picking up salary.
You might be right, but just maybe. It depends how desperate teams get over the next hours and days. I’ve heard everything from “no blue chip prospects” to multiple major league ready blue chip guys involved in rumors over the last 24 hours.
But I can promise you this: If the Astros can’t get blue chip prospects (they will kick in salary if necessary), Roy Oswalt won’t be traded before the deadline this year.
Oswalt is the same age as halladay and a year older than lee, and no one complains about their salaries. granted lee is cheaper, but if he picks up his game back to form hell command a raise next year and likely make the same range as roy and doc, and if he doesn’t it’ll be because of the economy, not because he and the front office doesn’t feel he’s worth it. Neither lee nor halladay are markedly better than roy, and roys been the same player since his debut, whereas lee is just finding his stride. doc is doc. can’t argue with that.
No Shelby Miller? No trade. The Cardinals’ farm system is a wreck, so Miller is a must.
Oswalt shouldn’t require a blue-chip prospect, unless Houston takes on a tremendous amount of salary. His age and salary are two big red flags.
IMO, Houston should expect salary relief and a package built around a raw, but potentially high-upside, prospect. The Card’s have a couple of 1B prospects that are obviously blocked who have potential big-league bats, some toolsy OF types that haven’t seen their talent reflected in their stats, and a plethora of RH relievers.
Obviously the ‘Stros will probably want more from the Cards. However, Card’s should NOT include Miller in a trade. He’s no sure thing, but with a potential monster Pujols contract the Cards will need all the cost-controlled youngsters they can get in a few years.
If Oswalt goes to the Cardinals, that wouldn’t even be fair in a playoff series.
Four aces, damn.
Jejeje!! Yeah!! Wainwright, Carpenter, Garcia and, if Astros send Oswalt to St. Luis, Oswalt.
God!!!
The Four Horsemen of the opposing team’s apocalypse, I suppose.
Who’s the 4th ace there? Garcia with his 126 career IP?
lol besides Halladay he’d be an Ace on the Phillies staff right now lol
There are only a handfull of teams in that Roy O would not be the Ace.
There are only a handfull of teams in that Roy O would not be the Ace.
This season he’s been as good as anyone that’s not a big left hander with a Fish on his hat.
Garcia with only one career start pitching more than 6 innings?
Garcia has pitched five starts this season in which he went seven innings.
No, he’s not an ace. But he’s still having a ridiculously impressive rookie season, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him remain a solid no. 2 throughout his career.
May want to familiarize yourself with baseball-reference.com.
Garcia with only one career start pitching more than 6 innings?
haha Joe because if oswalt is forced to go to Philly of course he wants the option picked up for the 16 mil. no one WANTS to go to Philly, are u serious? people take pay cuts to play in St. Louis. no player chooses to play in Philly with their fickle and unappreciative fan base lol
Way to show your ignorance. Players want to come to Philadelphia because the team wins games.
lol they’ve had a good 3 year stretch no doubt, but thats like the first time Philly has been relevant in like 20 years? lol
The Phillies have made the playoffs 5 times in the last 27 years…hardly a generation of unqualified success.
how bout roy halladay?
yeah, and roy halladay… among others… eyre, blanton etc….
Not sure about the others, but Doc seemed to want to pitch there because Philly had the best bet to win the Series (outside of NY) at the time. Whether he actually enjoys the city is another thing entirely.
This is the city that threw D-batteries at J.D. Drew, shined laser pointers in Albert’s eyes, visiting fans getting assaulted in the stands/parking lots, and who have a reputation of being ruthless to their own players. To say the city’s reputation doesn’t put off some players is naive.
They shined them in Julio Lugo’s eyes. Still not right, but don’t say it was Albert.
Could have swore they also showed replays of laser dots being shined on Pujols. I’ll check it out.
They did point it at Albert, but it was first used on Lugo.
visiting fans are harassed in many stadiums, not just in philadelphia. ever been a visiting fan at shea (citi field) or fenway or even in pittsburgh. it doesn’t happen as consistently as perceived in philadelphia, however, when it does it gets blown out of proportion because of the city’s reputation. same goes for the booing – booing happens all the time, everywhere, but no one makes a big deal about it unless it happens in philly. so we want our players to play a certain way – play hard and play to win. What’s wrong with that? The fans also have a reputation as being among the most passionate and loyal fans in the country. So we criticize our players and coaches when they aren’t producing how they should. It doesn’t mean we’re fair whether fans, we just can not be happy with lousy losing play. Not to mention they get to play in front of a sellout crowd everynight.Plenty of players love the city and playing in front of the fans. Look at Pat Burrell, arguable one of the most criticized players in the city, in any sport over the past 10 years. He loved it there and never wanted to leave. He understood that the fans expected certain results, and when he wasn’t achieving those results the fans would let him know.
And why do you think Philly is so consistently perceived in this way?? People didn’t just pick a random city to pick on…they have that reputation for a reason.
You think Philly is the only city that wants their players to play hard and win?? And aren’t happy when your team loses?? Your city just takes it to a whole new, unnecessary level and everybody knows this. You’re not fooling anybody with your ridiculous argument.
Not sure about the others, but Doc seemed to want to pitch there because Philly had the best bet to win the Series (outside of NY) at the time. Whether he actually enjoys the city is another thing entirely.
This is the city that threw D-batteries at J.D. Drew, shined laser pointers in Albert’s eyes, visiting fans getting assaulted in the stands/parking lots, and who have a reputation of being ruthless to their own players. To say the city’s reputation doesn’t put off some players is naive.
Roy Halladay says hi.
Although the Phillies dont want pick up the 2012 option, they have to do it, because now Jamie Moyer is on DL. They need another pitcher, to help Halladay, Cole Hamels is inconsistent, Jamie Moyer now on DL, their Bullpen so bad lately, then………. no more words.
I personally think Haren is the better fit for Philly. He has a better record over the last couple years and has done it on a bad team. He is also healthier (no past back problems like Oswalt) and is younger.
But Haren gives up more homeruns that Oswalt. That in Citizens Bank Park would not be too good. Given the two, I think Oswalt would be better suited to pitch in CBP.
Hamels gives up more HR than Haren. Haren would cost the moon – that’s the only knock against Haren. The guy is a stud. One of 15 pitchers since 2007 to have an ERA+ over 130.
Is anyone familiar with the Rays farm system? If we were to ship Werth down to Tampa, are their prospects down there that would attract some interest in AZ?
They’re calling in lidge to close the deal…here comes another blown save.
Brilliant sir.
I know that everyone wants Oswalt or Haren to come to Philadelphia, but quite frankly, I think picking up another aging pitcher is only going to compound the problems in Philly. The Phils have had a great three year run, and in any city other than Philly, that is fantastic and worthy of high praise. It is also next to impossible to expect a team to stay competitive when their number one, two, three hitters all hit the DL for extended periods of time. I think the right deal for the Phillies right now is to trade Werth for Upton, who would solve the problem of signing another OF of the future. After Ibanez leaves, we lock up Rollins and Victorino, and the core remains intact and we work towards the future.
True, Amaro made a mistake letting go of Cliff Lee, but hindsight is always 20/20. At the time, his boss set a benchmark that he had to maintain, and he did what he thought was best. What Amaro should have done was traded Werth in the beginning of the season for bullpen or prospect help, when his value was higher than ever.
This would NEVER EVER happen how, but wasn’t a straight up trade of Werth for Daniel Bard suggested/talked about or whatever a while back?
If that was, in fact, a legit rumor, indeed, hindsight is 20/20
Amaro won’t do Werth for Upton straight up. We’d be getting hosed. If/When Werth is hot, he’s a top hitter in baseball. Yes, I know he’s “slumping” yet still hitting .285. Not too shabby.
Haren? An aging pitcher?
No kidding. Though Strasburg is technically an aging pitcher too. 🙂
Haren? An aging pitcher?
Would rather not have Oswalt anymore, he needs to hand his man card in after saying he doesnt want to play anywhere that has an “aggressive media or fan base”. Are you kidding me, stay in Houston and pitch for a losing team for rest of your career.
Although I was all about Oswalt at first, he is acting like a little b!tch now. I’ll pass.
I love how Philly fans act like trash and then can’t understand why a player doesn’t want to play there. There’s a reason players will take a discount to play in front of the best fans in baseball in St Louis.
I love how Philly fans act like trash and then can’t understand why a player doesn’t want to play there. There’s a reason players will take a discount to play in front of the best fans in baseball in St Louis.
Apparently this didn’t post earlier. Basically I said Roy isn’t a bitch for giving a hometown discount. Lots of players do it. And he never criticized the fans, though from what everyone’s saying, they’re not all that. He did criticize the media, and why not? He’s not a flashy kinda guy. He has a midwest work ethic that people on the coasts can’t understand. He lets his pitching do the talking, and isn’t all about the spotlight and chest pounding that usually equals overcompensating rather than true talent
Hometown discount: because we all know St. Louis is a city in Mississippi.
They are not even adjacent states. Read up on your Oswalt background…and US geography while you’re at it.
ok smart guy, I know roy is from mississippi, but I’m from Idaho, and we have. . . ZERO pro sports teams, so my hometown mlb team is the rockies, in colorado, also not adjacent to idaho. Missouri and mississipi are very close, and the cards would be the closest team of note, both geographically and ideologically to mississippi. not all 50 states are as well represented as emperor selig would have us believe
Actually Romeo, Atlanta is closest geographically to Wier, Mississippi which is Oswalt’s hometown. St. Louis is over 2x futher away. Cincinnati is also closer than St. Louis.
Historically, St. Louis has always been the team most Mississippians have favored but over the last 20 years, Atlanta has gotten a large following especially in the southern part of the state since they have a AA team in the Jackson area. The northern part is still Cardinal country.
True but I was trying to combine geography and mentality. My impression of cincinnati is more of an east coast mentality, and it’s hard to argue with atlanta as a mecca for the deep south, but when I think of the mississippi river area I’m much more likely to think Missouri than Georgia, especially during my time in Georgia while in the military and in Houston after my time was up.
I don’t know what your view of Mississippi and the residents of the state are but Mississippi has little in common with Missouri (mainly we share the central time zone and a border with the same river). For the most part, residents of The South are very similar in ideology or “mentality”, and geography (The South very much includes Georgia and Mississippi but not Missouri).
Missouri is a borderline state, and best I can tell from the time I spent at leonardwood its not that dissimilar from other southern states. Being from idaho I can appreciate the rural mentality, but unless you’re bordering canada or a great lake, you’re southern, though historically missouri has never really fit north or south completely. Sue me for generalizing 🙂
Hometown discount: because we all know St. Louis is a city in Mississippi.
They are not even adjacent states. Read up on your Oswalt background…and US geography while you’re at it.
Apparently this didn’t post earlier. Basically I said Roy isn’t a bitch for giving a hometown discount. Lots of players do it. And he never criticized the fans, though from what everyone’s saying, they’re not all that. He did criticize the media, and why not? He’s not a flashy kinda guy. He has a midwest work ethic that people on the coasts can’t understand. He lets his pitching do the talking, and isn’t all about the spotlight and chest pounding that usually equals overcompensating rather than true talent
Although I was all about Oswalt at first, he is acting like a little b!tch now. I’ll pass.
Cards fans cheer for everybody, he’d like it there. Besides, everyone that goes there seems to way outperform their career average. Must be the water in St Lou…
oswalt to Braves for jj. Hoover and Jose Ortegano (maybe Robinson Lopez if they don’t go for it). Oswalt to the Cards for Colby Rasmus and the braves take on some of oswalts next year salary.
LOL neither package would fly. Astros will get a decent prospect for Oswalt but no way will they get Colby Rasmus they’d be luck to get Shelby Miller.
No chance that the Cards would trade Rasmus for Oswalt. I could very easily see them dealing Miller at this point in time. Their farm system is gutted. We all know that. However, if by chance they could pull it off, they would be very hard to be in a short series playoff.
Dealing Miller for a high-priced, aging SP would be foolhardy. Especially if Pujols is resigned, the Cards will need as many cost-controlled youngsters as possible.
I’m sure the ‘Stros want a lot, but this isn’t like the Holliday situation from last year. Wallace had no place in the organization and was expendable. Miller is someone the Cardinals might have to rely on in a few years when/if Pujols signs, Wainwright gets more expensive, etc.
Taking Oswalt’s age and salary into account, I don’t think he has as much value as people think. $16 million a year + a top prospect is a tremendous price to pay. Salary relief and a package built around a raw, but potential upside prospect and some middling prospects would be as far as I would go.
Dealing Miller for a high-priced, aging SP would be foolhardy. Especially if Pujols is resigned, the Cards will need as many cost-controlled youngsters as possible.
I’m sure the ‘Stros want a lot, but this isn’t like the Holliday situation from last year. Wallace had no place in the organization and was expendable. Miller is someone the Cardinals might have to rely on in a few years when/if Pujols signs, Wainwright gets more expensive, etc.
Taking Oswalt’s age and salary into account, I don’t think he has as much value as people think. $16 million a year + a top prospect is a tremendous price to pay. Salary relief and a package built around a raw, but potential upside prospect and some middling prospects would be as far as I would go.
No chance that the Cards would trade Rasmus for Oswalt. I could very easily see them dealing Miller at this point in time. Their farm system is gutted. We all know that. However, if by chance they could pull it off, they would be very hard to be in a short series playoff.
Rasmus has – far – more value than Oswalt right now.
i agree but i don’t think the cards can afford oswalt and they wont be able to afford rasmus in a couple years. oswalt gives them more of a chance to win right now.
— plus oswalt’s win above replacement is a full 1.5 above rasmus’
Actually, with Oswalt and without Rasmus, the change would be null if not negative especially after this season.
Actually, with Oswalt and without Rasmus, the change would be null if not negative especially after this season.
Rasmus hasn’t even hit arb yet. Its premature to say the Cards won’t be able to afford him in a couple years. Top young CF’s don’t grow on trees, whereas pricey, aging SP’s are relatively common. I don’t question Oswalt’s talent, but the money and age make him a risky proposition. Rasmus will make a fraction of what Oswalt does over the next two seasons.
Interesting to see why the defensive metrics aren’t valuing Rasmus as much this year as last, but none-the-less he has equally his WAR from his rookie year in the first half, and his still very young. Lets not forget he was among the top ten in the league in OPS for much of the first half.
You don’t trade away top young CF’s.
Rasmus hasn’t even hit arb yet. Its premature to say the Cards won’t be able to afford him in a couple years. Top young CF’s don’t grow on trees, whereas pricey, aging SP’s are relatively common. I don’t question Oswalt’s talent, but the money and age make him a risky proposition. Rasmus will make a fraction of what Oswalt does over the next two seasons.
Interesting to see why the defensive metrics aren’t valuing Rasmus as much this year as last, but none-the-less he has equally his WAR from his rookie year in the first half, and his still very young. Lets not forget he was among the top ten in the league in OPS for much of the first half.
You don’t trade away top young CF’s.
In a couple more years the Cards wont have to deal with Loshes contract.
i agree but i don’t think the cards can afford oswalt and they wont be able to afford rasmus in a couple years. oswalt gives them more of a chance to win right now.
— plus oswalt’s win above replacement is a full 1.5 above rasmus’
Rasmus has – far – more value than Oswalt right now.
im sorry….as a phils fan oswalt is not worth the money…this season is shot…..trade werth for some prospects…let happ get healthy and let dom brown get some experience
I wish you were Amaro. It makes more sense that what he is trying to do.
As a Braves fan I’m praying for an Oswalt to Philly deal to go down… either A.) You trade Werth and an already struggling lineup gets weaker or B.) you keep Werth and trade from a dwindling farm. Also, adding Oswalt stretches y’alls payroll that RAJ already said was close to its breaking point
I wish you were Amaro. It makes more sense that what he is trying to do.
im sorry….as a phils fan oswalt is not worth the money…this season is shot…..trade werth for some prospects…let happ get healthy and let dom brown get some experience
Personally id rather have miller and another prospect than rasmus. Rasmus is good, but we don’t need an outfielder. What we really need is pitching, and while first round pitchers are risky, I’m still waiting for stras to turn into prior, miller and another prospect would be worth roy. I like miller and lynn or miller and descalso. Because of the risk that i s practically inherent, its not a huge pricetag for a “fourth ace”
Personally id rather have miller and another prospect than rasmus. Rasmus is good, but we don’t need an outfielder. What we really need is pitching, and while first round pitchers are risky, I’m still waiting for stras to turn into prior, miller and another prospect would be worth roy. I like miller and lynn or miller and descalso. Because of the risk that i s practically inherent, its not a huge pricetag for a “fourth ace”
I wonder if St Louis eventually backs down from Oswalt because of the asking price and turns to B. Myers instead. He seems to be a much more realistic target for the Cards anyways because of his contract and I’m pretty sure the Cards do not want to add much more salary before settling the Pujols situation.
I wonder if St Louis eventually backs down from Oswalt because of the asking price and turns to B. Myers instead. He seems to be a much more realistic target for the Cards anyways because of his contract and I’m pretty sure the Cards do not want to add much more salary before settling the Pujols situation.
would that even be a fair rotation?
carpenter
wainwright
oswalt
garcia
doesn’t matter-probably lohse
lord…thats incredible.
Cards should be saving their pennies to resign Pujols
i don’t think so. oswalt is a free agent the same time as pujols so thats 16MM freed up. same as Ludwick so tahts another 3-4million. its not like pujols is free right now anyways as he already gets 16mil. just shift things around a lil bit and its ok.
of course i’m simplifying things a bit, but just making a point that we can still add another big name and still keep pujols.
Rasmus is not available, and if he is Mo is an idiot.
Rasmus is about as untouchable as anyone on the team. Mo knows that.
any chance a 3-team trade could be worked out? just thought of this the other day.braves get:ludwickcards get:oswaltastros get:mike minoreduardo sanchez.daryl jonesseems pretty even. Ludwick is a type A so braves will get comp picks. Astros get a nice bundle of prospects. Cards get another horse.
minor and sanchez are both promising, but jones isn’t nearly impressive enough despite being ranked in the top 100 prospects. he’s 23 a and has never been above aa. 2008 was a good year for him, but 2009 saw a return to form and he’s been unimpressive this year. Scouting reports are fine, but unless the player can turn the paper into tangible results, it doesn’t matter how high people are on the kid. He should be in AAA by now, and he should be showing some improvement since he’s been in the minors for a minute. It’s a now or never time for him, but I don’t think the astros will be the team to find out, especially where he plays a position we’re relatively strong at
ok fair enough. also, jones was injured in 09′ so that has something to do with his “return to form”
sub jones for Lynn? too much pitching? maybe pete kozma?
call me hard to please, but kozma is an infield version of jones. 22, never above AA, and never a decent batting average for any length of time. not sure about the norm for minors players, but 27 errors this year, though admitedly at a busy position, still we already have a non-hitting ss in manzella and mier could always develop an acceptable bat in the next 3 years, and if he doesnt, then he’s still no worse than kozma is now. Kozma could well develop into a decent ss, but until he spends some time and has some success in AAA, and without any real success in AA, I don’t think he’s a worthwhile chip. I’d take lynn in a heartbeat, but again, all this is my untrained eye because I don’t know much about the guys in the minors outside of my own organization
you make it sound like kozma is the centerpiece of the trade.
earth to astros fans, oswalt isn’t going to net multiple blue chip prospects.
maybe not, but the only guy you listed who might be “blue chip” is minor, and he’s no ace. we should get a chance at a future ace if we’re giving up ours in the process. I think miller, lynn, and descalso.
The odds of going deep in the playoffs now with a pitcher who is pitching at his prime level despite his age, which isn’t that old to begin with, should be worth a couple gambles that would give something more than mediocre returns, because we’ve got mediocre in our own system, no sense trading for it.
mike minor and eduardo sanchez are far from mediocre. at least 1, if not both, will be top 100 specs’ next year.
and at last glance, the astros currently have ONE top 100 spec. possibly 2 if they sign Shields.
At the risk of beating a dead horse, I agreed minor and sanchez were good; it was the others I didn’t like. Though i’d prefer lynn over sanchez and like an inclusion of descalso. 3 prospects who will likely pan out, but may not, for an all star pitcher throwing better than he ever has and will practically, nothings for sure, put you deep into october. The argument that he’s old doesn’t hold water as great pitchers tend to stay great, and pitchers who fall off at 30 usually weren’t that great at 25. Roy will be effective until he decides he doesn’t wanna pitch anymore, which as of right now, it 2012.
I’m thinking Lance Lynn could be a good trade piece to the Astros for Oswalt.
I like lynn and miller with a middle infield prospect because i’m not high on mier yet or manzella at all and kepp is too old to be our 2b for more than 2 or 3 more years, though unlike most people I think he’s more than competent.
Carpenter
Wainwright
Oswalt
Garcia
Penny
………Wow
Yeah it’d be nice but the more I look at it, the less I want to send Miller.
unfortunately, lohse would take penny’s spot.
LOL Colby Rasmus.. is that a joke? Heck, Oswalt isn’t even worth giving up Shelby Miller.
Lol @ bitter Phils fans!
last time i saw the dodgers sucked too and were 4th place in the nl west
I agree, they’ve been sucking big balls of late. But that’s irrelevant. I’m not bitter that the Dodgers aren’t the front-runners to land Roy Oswalt.
Erm…why would Phillies’ fans be bitter when almost all of the ones I’ve seen posting on here want Haren over Oswalt?
the thing that angers me is why hasn’t lidge already called him once this crap came out.
I didn’t know the cardinals had 3-4 good premium prospects to give up for Roy Oswalt? As an Astros fan I would hope he goes to the Phillies. They have a good farm system over there.
No way they’ll be getting 3-4 good/premium prospects, the Stros have no leverage whatsoever and the D’Backs have lowered their demands for the more cost effective, equally consistent pitcher Haren
Oswalt has taken all their leverage away with the insiting his option be picked up at 16 mil, the man is owed over 35 mil over the next 2.2 years and has full no trade, not many teams taking on salary already limits them, him choosing his destination limits it more and his huge remaining salary more so
The Stros will be quite lucky to get a single blue chip and a couple of fill in prospects
but do you really want haren for a second half push?
So with Carpenter being the no. 1 pitcher according to the Cardinals depth chart, I guess that means Wainwright is not an ace…..
just like how smoltz wasn’t an ace because he was a #3 starter for most of his career.
at this point Waino is better than Carpenter. If the cards acquired Oswalt I’d go in the playoffs Waino Oswalt Carpenter Garcia in the world series. That way you have Carpenter if there’s a game 7.
No way they’ll be getting 3-4 good/premium prospects, the Stros have no leverage whatsoever and the D’Backs have lowered their demands for the more cost effective, equally consistent pitcher HarenOswalt has taken all their leverage away with the insiting his option be picked up at 16 mil, the man is owed over 35 mil over the next 2.2 years and has full no trade, not many teams taking on salary already limits them, him choosing his destination limits it more and his huge remaining salary more soThe Stros will be quite lucky to get a single blue chip and a couple of fill in prospects
The astros are going to end up with nobody in return for these aging players with big contracts because theyre demanding to much. THIS IS A BAIL OUT, for the ridiculous things your previous GM did. The astros have 1 prospect who will be in the top 100 at the end of the year. 1. Lyles. Ed Wade get your head out of your ass and deal these players for your future. Or next year will be the same and so will the year after and after.
well Shields might be a top 100. if he signs that is.
This needs to happen. Way overdue for the Astros.
This needs to happen. Way overdue for the Astros.
Even if Haren goes, that doesn’t lessen the market for Roy. The astros may have a disposable commodity in Roy, but they’re holding the cards. Team want him, and the fewer top pitchers available combined with said top pitchers moving to their contenders, will make Roy just that much more valuable. Same for any position out there. This time of year is a sellers market. December is for the buyers. There’s only one Haren, and there are a dozen teams who are a true ace away from contending: Meet Roy Oswalt.
Don’t bring Roy to Philly Ruben, he doesn’t want to be here. He obviously wouldn’t be able to handle the pressure of pitching for the Phillies. The guy wants the organization to pick up his $16M option for 2012 (Age 34-35) That’s Halladay money and he sure as hell ISNT Roy Halladay. I personally don’t want him here.