Imagine the Red Sox without David Ortiz and Jonathan Papelbon. Heading into the 2010-11 offseason, it's hard to do, but not utterly impossible. As you'll see below, it now looks like both will be back in Boston next year…
- David Ortiz told Mike Petraglia of WEEI.com that he'd like to retire in Boston, but he realizes it's out of his control. "Sometimes, I feel like I'm part of the family and I'm going to stick around longer but I'm not the one who takes that decision," Ortiz said. The Red Sox can bring Big Papi back for $12.5MM next year, though he has expressed interest in a long-term deal.
- Red Sox GM Theo Epstein told John Tomase of the Boston Herald that he'd like to bring back Daniel Bard and Jonathan Papelbon in 2011. “Having two really good pitchers is better than one,” he said. “Sometimes you don’t want to overcomplicate things.” Both pitchers are under team control, but Papelbon has struggled this year and will make an eight-figure salary in 2011, so he's a trade candidate.
I gotta think 90% percent of Paps struggles comes down to his ego. Hopefully it got punctured a little and he can rebuild in the offseason.
Kind of agree with this, see my comment below. Hopefully this is the case and he can work out some kinks during the off-season.
The only issue is remember what happened last season? The way it ended was brutal, and he said he used that as “motivation” while working out. Look at how much good that did…
As a die-hard Sox fan though I have to keep some faith.
maybe that explains why he is overthrowing his pitches more than ever
Yo! How about doing some running and spending time in the gym this winter, to work 3-4 inches off the mid-line. Perhaps, then it won’t take until the middle of May to get the bat around to hit a fast ball successfully. Oh, by the way, a few hours a day hitting pitches tossed by a decent left hander might be a help too, Papi…
He’s talking about Papelbon
they gotta rid themselves of papelbon… are the downward trending numbers not a clue to what 2011 will bring? and you know he’s getting a raise through arbitration.
If he agrees to it, I think a 2 year deal for Ortiz around $15-$16 million would be a good idea. It guarantees him job security for 2 seasons, and it keeps the organization from investing a lot of money in a single year, like his current option.
As for Papelbon, as bad as he’s been he’s still got good stuff. I’d hate to see him go to a team like the Yankees, or any other AL team for that matter. The large issue here is obviously his contract, and I really have no suggestion for that problem.
As much as everyone hates him, I think he still has the ability to be a hall of famer some day.
Why in the world would the Yankees go for Papelbon? With the exception of their own homegrown, Hall of Fame closer, who have the Yankees spent big money on in recent memory to fulfill bullpen needs? Marte at 4 million might be the most. The Yankees have shown they do not spend big on bullpen, bench, or the extra pieces. Period.
Ortiz only on a low base high incentive contract. If he isn’t willing then it says a lot about his own perception of his ability. 2 mill base with up to 8 mill in incentives gives him a chance to be highly compensated but allows the Sox to replace him with no pain if he doesn’t work out…
Ortiz only on a low base high incentive contract. If he isn’t willing then it says a lot about his own perception of his ability. 2 mill base with up to 8 mill in incentives gives him a chance to be highly compensated but allows the Sox to replace him with no pain if he doesn’t work out…
WHIP, k/9, bb/9, BAA… they’re all right there where they were last year.
Yet his ERA and BS/L are up.
All his stats are well worse than his career averages, but it’s not like he’s fallen off the table from last year. The guy is still a high-end closer; he’s just not fulfilling all-world expectations.
It’d be a mistake to let him go and think they could improve on the position with a guy not named Soria or Rivera…
Yes, i agree. There is no way they will be able to upgrade the position unless they either A. catch lightning in a bottle with a trade of some sort or B. trade for Soria (b/c they’re not getting Rivera obviously).
I also think it’s funny that folks think that they can just throw Bard in there and they will be getting the type of production they got from Papelbon from 2006 to 2008. It’s no gaurantee that they will be getting even a good closer in Bard.
Most people don’t realize that since Bard has come to the big leagues he has 4 saves and 9 blown saves.(YES NINE!!!) I am not saying that either Bard is not a good pitcher or that he can’t be a good closer in the big leagues, but it is not even close to a sure thing….
Keep Paps for one more year, see what happens. sing ortiz for 2 years 16 million if he will take it. they’ve given what could be seen as an “extra year or so” before to favorites (Lowell, Schilling, Tek etc.)
Ok, to be clear, I think the Red Sox should keep Papelbon one more year but I disagree with almost everything you have said…
“Most people don’t realize that since Bard has come to the big leagues he has 4 saves and 9 blown saves.(YES NINE!!!) I am not saying that either Bard is not a good pitcher or that he can’t be a good closer in the big leagues, but it is not even close to a sure thing…. ”
This is extremely deceiving. The whole saves vs. blown saves as a non closer is a joke. He is never in a position to get a save and always in a position to blow it. Bard has been one of the best relievers in baseball this year, easily top 5. I don’t know that anyone is saying Bard is a “sure thing”…there is no such thing as a sure thing. But Papelbon isn’t a “sure thing” either, actually far from it. People are right, Bard is much better than Papelbon at this point, but I think the bullpen is better off for one more year with Papelbon closing and Bard setting up than Bard closing and who knows setting up.
WHIP, k/9, bb/9, BAA… they’re all right there where they were last year.
Yet his ERA and BS/L are up.
All his stats are well worse than his career averages, but it’s not like he’s fallen off the table from last year. The guy is still a high-end closer; he’s just not fulfilling all-world expectations.
It’d be a mistake to let him go and think they could improve on the position with a guy not named Soria or Rivera…
As much as I dislike Pap, that stare down is nasty and worth another year of him. I still wonder though, if Bard’s ready to take over as closer, why not transition him back to starting ? He can’t be any worse then Joba was at it and they can always transition him back.
Unfortunately the staredown does not help with BB or blown saves…
I’ve been a big Papelbon fan since he came up but hes downward trend is alarming.
This may be a crazy idea, but wth were fans we can do this, Rays need a closer since it looks like Soriano is departing. How about Papelbon goes to Tampa and grab a top prospect or two? They have a GREAT farm system. I know it is far fetched, but both teams would fill needs, Boston gets young major league ready prospects and Tampa gets a closer with a solid track record.
Tamp is cutting payroll. Won’t happen.
Whoops, I meant have Paps go back to starting. Bard is great at the back end, but a bullpen is pretty easy to make without making a prime asset stay there.
That is the problem. Look what happened to Chamberlain. They took a perfect late inning reliever, tried to make a starter out of him and now they have a pitcher who has no clue. No longer throws 98+, can’t throw strikes even any longer either.
Boston let Bard start when they 1st drafted him out of NC State and just go look at the results, nearly a walk an inning, it was a miserable test.
He is doing something now that very, very few pitchers can do and succeeding exceptionally well at it. Only a team desperate for starters would try that and Boston is flush with them right now and needs relievers, not starters.
Not trying to dice on you, but Boston has the perfect closer of the future with him that throws 3 pitches for strikes, upper 90’s and has exceptional control, a very rare commodity for somebody that can throw as hard as he does.
Hate to break it to you, but Chamberlain’s numbers have been ridiculous lately. He has turned things around completely. Even watching him on a post game interview the other night, it looks like the guy may finally be starting to mature. This was always the problem. His stuff has always been there. He was just constantly acting like kid. In the last three months, something has happened for the better. Once his maturation is complete, I have feeling he is going to be fireballing for some time out of the Yankee pen. Sometimes, it just takes longer for some players to grow up.
Ha! Apparently you missed last night’s game.
What? Start who? Papelbon or Bard? Either way, that is a horrible idea that will never happen. Besides the obvious reasons, the Red Sox are 6 deep in the rotation (7 if you include Wakefield), so why would you thin your weakest spot (the bullpen) to gamble on trying to make Papelbon a league average starter? Just no…more likely that they put Youk at catcher and Pedroia in centerfield.
Maybe tek at SS? Or even francona to the in left! Papi to third, and Lester catching, he does have a better arm than Victor.
Or we could just leave Paps in the pen. But at least we have options!
I don’t think their is any options with Papelbon though…you can either get rid of him for very little in return, or have him return as the closer. That’s really all the options there are. I think the Red Sox roster has very little options within it actually.
im sure you know that was sarcasm but i think papelbum is better for the team in the pen instead of the rotation. Paps is putting the sox in a tough spot. we have to assume is his contract was over he would be gone or if his salary was lower he would be traded. tough spot for both sides so as for now he is and will remain the closer.
Ortiz and Paps should return. Ortiz on an incentive deal is a joke. He’s going to hit 30-100+. His OBPS is fine. Incentive deal? Right… name one player with those numbers who would go with an incentive deal. As for Paps, it’s one bad year. He’s proven his worth and he should rebound, he’s young. Boston needs to start treating their own as their own, like the Yankees do. Ortiz deserves a 2 year deal at 16-18MM. Paps deserves to return. Unless of course, someone knocks our socks off with a trade offer, and that’s not going to happen for a closer.
“Boston needs to start treating their own as their own, like the Yankees do.”
What does this mean? What about World Series MVP Hideki Matsui, or Johnny Damon? The Yankees are constantly turning over their roster. They make decisions based on what is best for their team and have never made emotional signings for their key guys…you could argue Posada was, but he was coming off a great year at a premium position. They’ll end that with Jeter this offseason and give him a crazy deal though, but the overall point is its dumb to say the Red Sox don’t take care of their own while the Yankees do.
That’s false. This is his first bad year, and define “bad”… he still has decent numbers despite being “bad”. Hes young. He’s not on the downward spiral. Ridiculous. And who cares about his raise. We aren’t the KC Royals.
Since when is 30 young? Its not old, but its definitely not young. The life of a closer isn’t long…
DH’s are no longer worth what Ortiz would make if his option were to be exercised. If he wants some security, he should take a two-deal worth around $16MM.
Holy hell, when is it going to get through Ortiz’s head that no one on this earth especially the red sox are going to give him anything more than a two year deal at this point in his career.
Let’s not pretend that if you were in Ortiz’s shoes you wouldn’t be looking for a secure 2 year deal.
Sign Ortiz at 3/7mil per year with incentives, that will give him security and red sox a fairly priced DH and a club house favorite.
As for Paps, I think he should def return to the closer role next season but on a short leash, They have a very good chance at the playoffs next year and if Paps cant convert the saves you have to go with Bard. His stuff is electric! Paps is still IMO an above average arm out of the bullpen and i fully expect him to return to form next season.
No team is going to want to trade for Papelbon given his downward trending performance this year and his big, big, big salary arbitration case this offseason.
nevermind his ego…
nevermind his ego…
No team is going to want to trade for Papelbon given his downward trending performance this year and his big, big, big salary arbitration case this offseason.
Sox should keep PapelBUM and hope he wakes up and realizes he’s in a walk year. With all the talk that he wants to test the market as a FA after the Sox “made” him a closer and cost him millions, you know he’s gonna be motivated to cash in after 2011.
Give Bard another year of setup duty with occassional closing, then he takes over in 2012.
Can you imagine how long a game would take with Papelbon starting?
Is it correct for me to assume anyone who uses nicknames like papelBUM or A-ROID knows nothing about baseball?
Is it correct for me to assume that you’re a toolbag for asking a question like that?
Not at all. But I still say I’m right
Not at all. That’s all you’re right about. Don’t respond in the future. You don’t add anything. Thank you.
Not at all. That’s all you’re right about. Don’t respond in the future. You don’t add anything. Thank you.
Not at all. But I still say I’m right
Is it correct for me to assume that you’re a toolbag for asking a question like that?
Paps will stay with the Sox. No one is going to offer them the equivalent of 2 top draft picks and the Sox can afford one more year of Paps. After next season Paps easily projects to be a type A free agent, who has said time and time again that he want’s a huge multi-year deal (he want’s to “set the bar for closers”). Again, the pen is better with Paps and Bard than Bard and anyone else who is available. Even with Paps and Bard, the pen needs work this off-season. I don’t see Atchison posting numbers like this year again (sub 4 ERA)
I think the Sox have larger issues to worry about at SS and catcher to be honest. Scutaro has two holes in his hands and a noodle arm and well, catcher, man….I know they have the prospects for those positions now, but that’s still a full year out in my opinion. If I were the Sox, I’d plan for 2012 when they will have that team that many will want to watch again. I read something yesterday, maybe on the boston globe, quoting fans who have had zero interest in following the team this season. There are no superstar players. No hall of famers, really just a bunch of pieces. I’ll give credit where due, Youk and Pedroia are a hell of a start.
Scutaro is fine. I’ll take .272/.332/.381 from my SS. And don’t read the Globe lol. Fans who would say that aren’t worth being fans of a team. They are just bandwagoners who won’t be missed. There is plenty on this team to be excited about and watchable.
Shocking but true: scutaro and jeter are bout the same batting wise.
If Ortiz’s is back, fine. But I’d explore other things first. I’d like to have a RH DH though.
If Papi ever got two years I don’t even want to think how long it would take into ’11 before he played himself into shape. We saw him at his best this year. He looked as lean as I’ve ever seen him but he was fighting for one last deal.
Put papelbon and elsbury in a package for David wright.
DAVID WRIGHT WILL NOT BE TRADED.
give it up
The only way the mets get good is if they dump bad contracts, and sign Crawford, lee and good F/A. Not gunna happen. Or u could trade Reyes and wright who have value and start getting good prosects. Keep wright and u guys will still suck!
That’s way too much for Wright. His numbers are deceiving. He’ll go 3/4 against bad pitching and 0/4 when facing quality hurlers. The last two years he’s become much too streaky and disappears during crunch time. I wouldn’t make that trade.
That’s way too much for Wright. His numbers are deceiving. He’ll go 3/4 against bad pitching and 0/4 when facing quality hurlers. The last two years he’s become much too streaky and disappears during crunch time. I wouldn’t make that trade.
I think there is really only one possible outcome with Pap and it’s that he will be the closer for 2011 and then sign with another team as a free agent. This is the best-case scenario for the Red Sox unless they somehow are able to find a team willing to trade top prospects for him, which is highly unlikely due to his expected 2011 salary.
I think there is really only one possible outcome with Pap and it’s that he will be the closer for 2011 and then sign with another team as a free agent. This is the best-case scenario for the Red Sox unless they somehow are able to find a team willing to trade top prospects for him, which is highly unlikely due to his expected 2011 salary.
Yes, Pap has been worse than usual as his secondary pitches have been inconsistent. But a lot of teams would take 36/43 in saves – very respectable – and he has given up 51 hits in 63 IP while striking out 70 and walking 24. Sure, his ERA is a lot higher than his career norm, but c’mon no one is perfect. He isn’t going anywhere.
There’s nothing wrong with Papelbon’s arm, so the problem has to be with his head, pitch selection, and/or mechanics. In any case, the Red Sox have SO many underperforming pitchers, you have to wonder if it isn’t time to find a pitching coach who is able to fix them. The current one, much as he seems like a great guy, clearly isn’t up to the task.