David Ortiz says he is still hoping to sign a multi-year deal with the Red Sox and insists that he remains an elite hitter despite the perception that he’s in decline. Big Papi told Rob Bradford of WEEI.com that he won’t be pleased if the Red Sox exercise his $12.5MM option for 2011 instead of offering more security.
"I'm not comfortable coming back just for one year because it's going to be the same roller-coaster that I had this year," he said.
Ortiz’s representatives will meet with the Red Sox next week and Big Papi may drop in for part of the discussions. Ortiz says he wants to stay in Boston and the Red Sox figure to pick his option up even if they don’t offer a multi-year deal, so he’s not going anywhere for now.
Ortiz considers himself “one of the best hitters in the game” and you can’t deny that he’s still one of the best designated hitters around. The 34-year-old was among the American League leaders in slugging (8th, .529), OPS (8th, .899), home runs (5th, 32) and walks (9th, 82) this year.
“You tell me, how does a guy who is declining finish in the top 10 best hitter in the league,” Ortiz asked. “How does that happen? Put it this way, the past two years I have 60 homers, and I have over 200 RBI. Is that bad?"
It’s quite good, but it may not be enough for the Red Sox to offer an extension. Even though Ortiz is tired of proving himself year after year, the Red Sox can simply exercise his option and postpone discussions about 2012 and beyond until next winter if they aren't completely comfortable guaranteeing more years.
David – if you didn’t like the contract, why did you sign it? Sorry, no sympathy.
I will probably get grilled for this, but anyone that offers him more than one-year deals shouldn’t have a job.
Then again, I can’t talk, since the Braves offered a three-year deal with an option for a 37-year-old player. And a four-year deal to a 35-year-old.
You’re right. Hes at the stage where Im not comfortable offering him more than one year at a time. Cant afford for him to keep taking a month or two to get going, and he is pretty terrible at hitting lefties too now (just .222/.275/.324 last year).
Im quite happy to let him have one last hurrah next year for the $12.5m option.
I wouldn’t put it that strong. I would still give him a multi-year deal, just depends on the money you put in the deal. 3yrs/12 mil sounds fine by me. or 2yrs/9mil. However, that is probably not the money he is looking for and that is where you make a good point. Anyone giving him a new multi-year deal for the money he is paid now should not have a job.
Sure…he should take 12 million over 3 years instead of 12.5 over, um, one year.
exactly, if i was Ortiz i would stfu, its a blessing he is going to get 12.5 for one year, if he gets his way and has the Sox decline the 12.5 million, he shouldnt cry when he gets a 3 year 15 million deal.
If Papi is smart he’ll realize he can do the same as Andy Pettitte. Take each year one at a time knowing he’s with an organization that will always re-sign him as long as he can play decently. No Bosox fan wants to see a club without him as long as he can still contribute.
A-Rod and his crazy contract excepted, it’s financially prudent because a player should always get higher dollars on a one year than on a multi-year.
Willie Stargell did the same with the Pirates his last few years.
Different Era, but so did Yaz Bench Schmidt also. That was when loyalty actually meant something and those days left decades ago with those players and Dwight Evans finishing his 23 year career with the orioles instead of retiring kind of proved that when he could no longer play at a MLB level his last season.
If David Ortiz was probably not the worst MLB defender at his supposed MLB defensive position that there is, then no reason to give him a multi year contract for *maybe* 2/20, BUT he cannot play 1B at all with any range, cannot field a ground ball hit right at him and his bat has to be suspect at least judging from April to early May the last 2 seasons.
Epstein should not piddle around with Ortiz’s ego in this and come out early with a low ball figure and just get it over with. If ortiz don’t like it? Fine, Have him with the 12.5M option and he pulls that early season struggles this season, bench him/platoon him right off against all L/H pitchers, or flat out release him come June.
2/25M is far and above what any DH makes. This is not a charity organization.
Yes, you’re right about all those guys. My memory would’ve never offered up Johnny Bench or Mike Schmidt, but Yastrzemski, yes. He was so clearly a part of the Red Sox, he could’ve been part of the Green Monster. Like Stargell, he saw no need to consider playing elsewhere. Each year he wanted somewhat fair dollars to continue with the franchise where he made his name.
I know it is a different era, but we still might see some more players go this way. It’s sometimes in the players best interest.
sorry David, but you were not among the top 10 or hell even top 20 hitters this year, keep dreaming
Looks like you didn’t see the stats, blind NY fan. Yes, he was in fact a top 10 productive hitter.
I know you’ll dismiss this as hate from a Yankee fan but if you look at power, obp, speed and contact hit ability you can say the following had better years than Ortiz..
Jose Bautista
Evan Longoria
Robinson Cano
Adrian Beltre
Carl Crawford
Paul KOnerko
Miguel Cabrera
Josh Hamilton
Shin-Soo Choo
….and if you factor in defensive value (being able to play a position adequately), or look at players who had shortend seasons due to injury or being a part time player then you can argue these guys were better than Ortiz as well….
Nelson Cruz
Jim Thome
Kevin Youkillis
Mark Texeira
Justin Morneau
Alex Rodriguez
Nick Swisher
That’s only in the AL. Ortiz should just hope they pick up his $12 mil option because I don’t think any other team would pay him that for 2011. If anything he sounds a little insecure in his own ability to produce next year. He’s one year removed from his worst as a Red Sox player. And since 2008 he hasn’t been able to hit lefties very well. I wonder if having Manny bat behind him as a RH somehow made lefties more likely to throw him strikes in fear of walking him? And maybe w/o Manny pitchers are more likely to make him chase pitches outside of the strike zone?
Another post from another blind NYY fan. Compare Ortiz’s numbers from last year to any of the others on those lists that are CONSISTENT hitters and then compare salary numbers. Just looking at Arod’s and Tex’s numbers from last year it looks like Ortiz should get a big jump in pay, right?
While Ortiz will never win a gold glove at 1b he is hardly an embarrassment. If the Yankees can make the playoffs with Posada’s defense then maybe defense is over-rated.
See, Sox fans can be haters, too. Or maybe we could all just look at things objectively and admit that David Ortiz is still a MAJOR part of the Red Sox lineup that the Sox would be better off retaining for the near future. 2 years/$22.5 m wouldn’t be a bad deal for a guy that has proven, year after year, that he is one of the best in the majors.
See….it’s so easy to dismiss what I say because I’m an obvious Yankee fan. If my comments were blinded by what team I root for then I would tell you to sign him to a 3 year deal.
I was simply disproving the statement from Ortiz that he is a top 10 hitter. I just named you 9 guys that were clearly better than him in 2010 and 7 guys who were just as good or better if you factor in their defensive value and injury shortend seasons and that was just in the AL. If I went to the NL I could rattle off Agonz, Howard, Pujols, Votto, Cargo, Fielder, Dunn, Braun, TUlo, etc. I can argue that Ortiz isn’t even a top 10 1B/DH. The arguement isn’t Ortiz @ $12 mil vs Tex @ $22 mil or anyone else. It’s Ortiz @ $12 mil vs Ortiz @ 2 or 3 years @ “x” amount of dollars. The sooner focus on what the issue is rather than who is making the arguement and the sooner you can have an honest discussion.
You can hate on the year Tex had and that’s fine, no Yankee fan will dispute that he had an off year but how is that relevant to Ortiz when Tex is in the early stages of a 7 year deal and Ortiz is on an option year? It’s stead of talking about “blind Yankee hate” how about we talk about “blind nation love” dude?
Smart move is to bring him back for 2011 at the $12 mil and then worry about 2012 and beyond after the season is over.
Bautista —1 year wonder
Longoria —About equal offensively
Cano —Slightly better
Beltre —One year wonder but better
Crawford —Worse and what kind of contract will he get?
Konerko —Better but probably the best comp to Ortiz. What kind of contract…
Cabrera —Better and what does he get paid?
Hamilton —Better and what would he make as a free agent?
Choo —worse
Ok, so out of all the team MVP’s that you listed, I’ll give you 5 that had a better year that were not total one year wonders. Even tho the Red Sox don’t throw as much “stupid money” around as the Yankees, they can still afford to spend some on players that have been VERY productive over a LONG period. If they can afford J.D. Drew @ $14 m+ I think that they can afford Ortiz @ 2 yrs/$25m.
A lot of this has to do with “respect”. For fun maybe we should run Jeter’s 2010 numbers next and see how much the Yankees should pay him. He certainly doesn’t deserve more than year to year contracts at this point in his career, riiiiight? Ortiz for 2 years (or even 3 years) at the production levels he has had wouldn’t cripple the Red Sox at all when it comes to payroll or offense. I wonder how much the Yankees would offer him if the Sox declined his option. 2 years/$30m? More?
See, when ppl don’t have anything to say they bring up issues that have ZERO relevance. Did Ortiz say who had a better career or did he say he was a top 10 hitter last year? Did I say the Sox should NOT bring Ortiz back or did I say they SHOULD bring him back and wait until after 2011 to offer him another deal.
Furthermore, Jeter’s situation has NOTHING to do with Ortiz’s. Apples and orangatangs is how different they are. I don’t want to take up too much time in a Boston related post to talk about Jeter but since ppl keep on interjecting him into this conversation.
All Yankee fans and personell know Jeter will be obscenely overpaid. Here’s the difference…
-Jeter doesn’t have a 2011 option. Ortiz does.
-Jeter is closer to being a top 10 SS than Ortiz is from being a top 10 1B/DH.
-Jeter is being paid for an up and coming milestone (3,000 hits) and for his relevance as a top 5 (arguably) Yankee icon (Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mantle, Berra, Mattingly in the conversation). I’ll let Sox fans decide where Ortiz ranks among other greats (Williams, Yaz, Rice, Boggs, Foxx, Cronin, Doerr, Conigliaro). It’s not my place to define his importance.
I clearly feel that ppl are not understanding the point I was making and what many are saying. Would Ortiz get $12 mil per on the open market? NO. Should the Sox pick up his option anyway? YES. Should they sign him to an extension NOW? WHY? He has zero leverage. He might go into 2011 unhappy and be unprofessional ala Manny but he can’t LEAVE Boston in 2011 unless Theo wants him to. So why not play it safe, see how he performs in 2011 and see what his health is, etc?
If you were one of the main offensive weapons for a team for many years and were still productive for that team and they slapped you in the face would you rather resign with them for the next contract or would you rather go to their biggest rival and help them destroy the team that showed you no respect? Ortiz’s leverage comes from what he would do if the Sox don’t extend him. What kind of numbers do you think Ortiz would put up in pinstripes in 2012? THAT is why the Red Sox should extend him for more than market value for 2012 and even 2013. The Yankees aren’t the only team that can spend money you know.
Theo isn’t asking Ortiz to take a pay cut. In fact, I have no idea what Theo is thinking but it sounds like he’s more than willing to honor the contract they have and pick up Ortiz’s 2011 option. Not sure how that’s a slap in the face. Ironically, isn’t this situaiton similar to that of Manny? Wasn’t Manny asking for an extension and when Theo refused to negotiate while in the middle of their current deal Manny started being “extra Manny”? DISCLAIMER: I DOUBT ORTIZ WOULD ACT THE WAY THE UNHAPPY MANNY DID. But why is management wrong for asking a player to honor the deal and play it thru to the end of the deal before offering another one? Not even the Yanks renegotiate with their vets as we saw this year with Jeter, Mo and Girardi.
“Ortiz’s leverage comes from what he would do if the Sox don’t extend him”.
What could he do? Theo can pick up his option and Ortiz would have to play. If Theo declined the option then Ortiz can find out for himself how difficult it would be to get $12 mil from another team. Meanwhile, look at this…..
Ortiz @ $12 mil for 2011
2010 FA DH’s and what they signed for….
Vlad 1/$5.5 mil w/ a $9 mil mutual option.
Thome 1/$1.5 mil
Matsui 1/$6 mil
Huff 1/$3 mil
And then look at guys available this year who they can probably sign for the same or probably less (NOT THAT I AM SUGGESTING THEY SHOULD OVER ORTIZ).
Berkman, Dunn (on a multi-year deal ), Konerko, Lee, Pena, Thome, Matsui and possibly Vlad (has an option).
Again, you mentioned Ortiz has leverage in 2011 when he clearly doesn’t. The option is the club’s not the player’s.
I agree that Ortiz has little choice but to play out his 2011 final contract year with the Red Sox if Theo exercises the team option. He could ask for a trade but even then the Sox could refuse to trade him. What I am saying is that he doesn’t even have to consider any offer the Red Sox would make to him for 2012. He could either make himself available to the highest bidder or choose to go with “a team that gives him a chance to win another championship” (Yankees?). I, as a Red Sox fan, would HATE to have to face the Yankees with Ortiz as their DH 18 or 19 times a year. Yeah, the Yankees might not be interested in his services but if he continues to put up the numbers he has for the last 8 years I can’t imagine that they wouldn’t be interested (especially if it meant taking him away from the Red Sox. Kind of like what happened with Texiera).
As I have said numerous times, the Sox have the money and Ortiz does a great job for them. Pay the man. I doubt he wants anything crazy. He has been more than fair with his previous contracts, he just wants to know that he has a home with the Sox for more than next year.
J.D. Drew makes $14 or $15m a year that will be coming off the books after 2011. Cameron and Scutaro’s time will be up after the 2011 season. I don’t think that extending Papi for 2012 for $10m or $12m would put the Red Sox in a bind. For crying out loud, use some of the $9m that you don’t have to pay Lugo to play somewhere else to extend him.
I also realize that there will be other options at DH that would be cheaper. How many of them have played in a very high pressure environment like Boston or NY and produced like Ortiz? We aren’t talking about a team with a Tampa type payroll. The funds are there. Ortiz wants to stay. Extend him and lock him up for 2012 with a club option for 2013.
The Red Sox could go the bargain basement and pray route but why if you don’t have to? Ortiz has proven over many years that he is one of the most productive hitters in the game and he has proven it while playing in the Boston fishbowl. I say pay the man. I’m sure Theo will do everything he can not to. That way he can resign JD Drew for $16m+ instead… or maybe he will go hard after Lugo again…
Please stop. People like you are the reason people hate Red Sox fans so much.
I wish I knew what that meant. Because we love our team? Because I won’t agree with a YANKEE fan who is worried about how much MONEY the Sox might spend even tho the Yankees spend money like water? Whatever. I think they are wrong and I’m willing to back up my opinion.
I’m certainly not going to dismiss this because it is, in part correct. I don’t think its fair to compare most of these players with Ortiz because mostly they are in their primes, playing defense, and the elite of the AL. Many are making more, or soon will be making more, than Papi is. Maybe Thome and Konerko are fair comparisons. Berkman would be a fair comparison. I mean, we are talking about an aging DH, who does (by statistics) still hit very effectively on an overall basis. Would anyone else pay him $12.5MM? You’re right … the answer is no. Should we? Yes. Will the Yanks do something similar for their aging FA’s? Definitely. Watch Jeter and Mo get far more than their true market values just to finish out their careers in pinstripes. As far as going more than 1 year on Papi, I wouldn’t. I think he’s in a year to year contract situation from here on out.
Towards the end of this season, Papi demonstrated he is not so susceptible to your final argument. He showed he remains pitch selective and has the ability to turn quickly on a rocket fastball. I watched him turn on a 98 mph inside fastball against the White Sox during the last home series against them. There’s still some juice left in his tank. There’s just no accurate gauge to figure out precisely how much longer that juice will last.
I don’t think its fair to compare most of these players with Ortiz because mostly they are in their primes, playing defense, and the elite of the AL.
-ORTIZ made the arguement that he had a top 10 year, we didn’t. Therefor, if he states that he had a top 10 season then why can’t I look at hitters that clearly had better years?
Many are making more, or soon will be making more, than Papi is. Maybe Thome and Konerko are fair comparisons. Berkman would be a fair comparison.
-How does money become relevant to this discussion? Whether or not they made lge minimum or $23 mil isn’t a factor in whether or not he had a top 10 season as he stated. Keep in mind. $12 mil is a HELL of a lot more than what Thome, Vlad, Matsui or Damon got last year and way more than what Konerko and Berkman will get his year. It’s not like people are saying drop his option and sign him for 1/$5 mil. What most ppl, or at least me, are saying is to pick up the 1/$12 option and discuss a deal for 2012 and beyond after you see what you get in 2011. Even the Yanks have a stance of not renegotiating new deals new deals w/ vets until the old one runs out.
I mean, we are talking about an aging DH, who does (by statistics) still hit very effectively on an overall basis.
-Overall, IMO, means he can hit both LH and RH pitchers adequately and that simply hasn’t been the case over the last 3 years. 2008 (.221/.308 w/ 5 hrs), 2009 (.212/.298 w/ 6 hrs) or 2010 (.222/.275 w/ 2 hrs). You can argue that he shouldn’t even hit vs lefties and in a league that could potentially have Sabathia, Price, Pettitte, Lee (if he stays in the AL), Cecil, Matusz, Kazmir, Wilson, Liriano, etc that’s a big deal. Can you imagine how much of a disadvantage the Sox would be in if their main lefty hitter can handle the Yanks and Rays best pitchers?
Would anyone else pay him $12.5MM? You’re right … the answer is no. Should we? Yes. Will the Yanks do something similar for their aging FA’s? Definitely. Watch Jeter and Mo get far more than their true market values just to finish out their careers in pinstripes.
-No one disagrees that the Sox SHOULD pick up the option.
As far as going more than 1 year on Papi, I wouldn’t. I think he’s in a year to year contract situation from here on out.
-That’s the point most of us are making.
Towards the end of this season, Papi demonstrated he is not so susceptible to your final argument. He showed he remains pitch selective and has the ability to turn quickly on a rocket fastball. I watched him turn on a 98 mph inside fastball against the White Sox during the last home series against them. There’s still some juice left in his tank. There’s just no accurate gauge to figure out precisely how much longer that juice will last.
-Not sure how to answer that. I can’t go by “I saw him do this in game 158 last year”. I do know that he struck out more than any other season in 2010. I do know that his GB/FB ratio was the highest of his career. I do know his LD% was the 2nd lowest of his career. Pitchers are throwing him more FB than any other time since 2005. He’s making less contact % and less strike zone contact than league average (as per fangraphs).
The Red Sox pay Renteria $10m+ to go play for someone else. They pay Lugo $9m to go play for someone else. I think they can afford to pay Ortiz $12.5m to actually play for their own team.
AND THEY SHOULD!!!!!!!! Hahaha. PLEASE show me where I said the Sox shouldn’t pick up his $12.5 mil option. Go ahead. I’ll wait…haha. Know why? Because I never said it. DARN PPL!!!!!!
No, you just keep saying that they shouldn’t extend him. Why not? He is still incredibly productive, he is a main part of their offense, they have plenty of money to do so, he has earned local hero status. Why NOT extend him even at $12.5m for 2 extra years? Because it is going to degrade the team the Sox have in any way? I highly doubt it. From someone who is a fan of a team that pays the left side of their infield more than some TEAMS payroll that rings a bit hollow.
If you would like to overpay Ortiz because the Yanks overpay Jeter and Arod then by all means do it. Haha…sign him to a 4 year deal if you would like to. Yanks have put themselves in an unenviable situation for two iconic players. Or you could just pick up the option and have this conversation next winter. What happens IF…IF…he was a horrible year where he hits .240/.235 w/ 25 hrs and can’t hit lefties like he did in 2009? Still want to pay him 2/$25 mil then? Imagine if the Sox manage to sign Beltre to a multi year deal this winter @ 3B. You have Youks at 1B already. Then after 2011 you might possibly have Fielder, Pujols, Agonz, Uggla, Abreu, Ibanez, Beltran and possibly Bautista on the market? Wouldn’t you like to have the option to add one of those guys and let Ortiz walk w/o fear of being tied to him for 2/$25 for 2012-2013?
I’m not saying to get crazy and sign him to a 4 year contract. All I am saying is to extend him thru 2012 guaranteed for $10m with a team option for 2013 for $10m. That way Ortiz knows that he will be in Boston for the foreseeable future as long as he keeps producing. That’s all he wants. Security.
IF he has the “horrible” year that you mention in 2011 (which would probably still be better than a ton of other DHs) then all you are on the hook for is his 2012 contract during which you could platoon him if he is a total liability against lefties. I don’t think having a partially productive Ortiz @$10m in 2012 would make it impossible for the Red Sox to field a competitive team especially when they should have all of the minor league talent coming on line that we are supposedly “bridging to” in 2010 and 2011.
The problem with a lot of the guys that you mention is… would they be solely a DH? I don’t know that many of them would. I also honestly don’t know if Fielder is even going to hold up physically for that long. He faded pretty badly at the end of last season and his numbers were no better than Papi’s at the end of the season. I may be mistaken but I think that with all the contracts coming off the books after 2011 (Drew, Cameron, Scutaro) that the Red Sox should have ample $ to compete for any of those guys that actually make it to free agency. On top of that, what if none of them makes it? Then what?
Give me a break here now YFS78. Not going to say anything about the defensive side, but really.. ARod is owed 250M, Tex 150M. You think that is a deciding factor in this? I myself would gladly give Ortiz right now 2/25M rather than take on even 150M of ARod’s contract and acquire him and not saying that in a mean spirited way either. it is pretty clear with that hip surgery he is not going to be playing 3B in any meaningful way his last 5-5 years and where is that 25M per salary going to be slotted to and the bat everyone has to hope is putting up ortiz like numbers.
That was a bit over the top there my friend.
Does anyone even understand the arguement here? Why are ppl bringing up salary? Ortiz said he had a top 10 season last year. He didn’t quantify it by saying he had a top 10 year from a pool of players earning between $10-$14 mil did he? I didn’t even argue that based purely on offense that any Yankee other than Cano had a better year than Ortiz. I pointed out that 9 guys had a better 2010 offensive season than Ortiz and that if you factor in defensive value, being able to play a position average or above average, (Arod, Tex, Swisher) , guys who were having great seasons but got injured and missed time (Morneau, Cruz, etc) and part time players such as Thome that Ortiz wasn’t even in the top 10 in the AL.
LET ME SAY AGAIN….Sox SHOULD pick up Ortiz’s 2011 option and THEN consider whether or not to give him an extension. It befuddles my mind that some of you, especially you John, are arguing w/ me on that and bringing up irrelevant issues like salary, when most you were calling for him to be released or traded early 2010 and at the end of 2009.
If he has a solid 2011 then fine sign him for 2012. If he’s making claims that he’s a top 10 hitter then clearly he values himself as that. Does anyone really think he would jump at a 3/$15 deal (as some have suggested)? WHy would you insist on tieing yourself to Ortiz beyond 2011 when you don’t have to do that now because you have leverage?
I must have misinterpreted what you were posting above there YFS. Afrer reading it, it does appear to look like it is an OK to go ahead and pay a (possible) DH a large sum and if I did misinterpret it and offended YOU, one of the not large amount of NYY fans here that a nice, fair and intelligent conversations with, then I humbly apologize.
Also agree with you on tying him to any kind of contract beyond 2011, unless it is 100% in the teams best interests as i also posted earlier above. Boston gave him that contract, ortiz signed it and he can live with it (if Epstein does not kick it) or make up his mind next year what other team will give him a Vlad like 7-8M 1 year deal IMO.
No problem dude. I’ve had worse conversations w/ Sox fans and you and I have always had pleasant disagreements. This one wasn’t a disagreement at all just maybe you misunderstoof my position.
Even though Ortiz is tired of proving himself year after year…
David, this is the MLB, not a handout line. You have to prove yourself — but hey, if you’re that tired of it you can always retire.
60 HRs and 200+ RBIs over the last two years qualifies for “proving yourself”, I believe. With that said, no way the Sox offer him a multi-year deal – just not smart business at this point.
Yeah I don’t think anyone is arguing that he wasn’t productive. I think the arguement is regarding the top 10 hitter remark and his desire for an extension. If I were Theo I would have no problem picking up the $12 mil option because even if he regresses in 2011 it’s only a 1 year deal.
“The 34-year old…” should read “The *supposedly* 34-year old…”
does nobody remember what this guy did for us, how he nearly single handedly carried us on his back for long stretches. I have no problem giving him a 3 year deal if he takes a little less per year . You not only get a very solid lefthanded hitter who in a pinch can play a passable 1B, you get the heart of the team, a guy who always has a welcoming smile and hug for any new players who come to the Sox, there are many players who want to come here just because of the loose and fun environment he has created. Additionally, when you turn your back on a veteran player you send a message to your current players that loyalty means nothing to the organization.
Brian – what are you smoking – its all about money – can’t play first – if the Sox want to hire a greeter the cost would be lower. The guy is done.
He hit .270, 102 RBIs, and hit 32 hrs. HE IS NOT DONE! Imagine what his numbers would have been without the slow start, maybe .290, 40hr, & 115 RBIs is not out of the question.
Im not saying we should give him 20mil per, but geez guys he had a pretty good year. I would love to have papi back for a couple of years, maybe this year full time DH and the following season part time DH and pinch hitter.
3 yrs 15 mil would not be a bad contract, heck 3 yrs 18 mil wouldnt be bad. The guy can rake when he is hot.
You have to remember he was coming off an injury from last season into this season and it takes time to adjust and get your timing down when facing major league pitchers, i dont care who you are.
I think 3yr/15 would be good….. for the sox. But, do you really think Ortiz would sign that? This is the same guy who thinks Rafael Soriano deserves a 5 year deal. His perception/reality number is a bit on the high side. I just don’t see a way that the Sox and Ortiz will both be satisfied with a multi-year deal now. Ortiz would need to explore the market and find out that his worth is in that 3/15 range at best. I doubt a three year deal at any amount would actually happen for him though. Most he could hope on would be a 2-yr deal.
I agree it’ll be tough for Ortiz to take that deal, with his kind of pride. But I think what Boston needs to make him understand this year is that they want to keep him, but they’re not going to overpay to do so, and that he needs to adjust what he thinks his value is. Because they can just pick up his option and find someone else next year, he knows that. So what I would hope the Red Sox do is offer said 3/15m, maybe 3/18, and tell him that this is where they honestly think he’s worth in todays market. If he really wants the security, he’d take it. If he just wants to get lots of bucks, he’ll get his option picked up and move on after 2011.
I agree it’ll be tough for Ortiz to take that deal, with his kind of pride. But I think what Boston needs to make him understand this year is that they want to keep him, but they’re not going to overpay to do so, and that he needs to adjust what he thinks his value is. Because they can just pick up his option and find someone else next year, he knows that. So what I would hope the Red Sox do is offer said 3/15m, maybe 3/18, and tell him that this is where they honestly think he’s worth in todays market. If he really wants the security, he’d take it. If he just wants to get lots of bucks, he’ll get his option picked up and move on after 2011.
I think 3yr/15 would be good….. for the sox. But, do you really think Ortiz would sign that? This is the same guy who thinks Rafael Soriano deserves a 5 year deal. His perception/reality number is a bit on the high side. I just don’t see a way that the Sox and Ortiz will both be satisfied with a multi-year deal now. Ortiz would need to explore the market and find out that his worth is in that 3/15 range at best. I doubt a three year deal at any amount would actually happen for him though. Most he could hope on would be a 2-yr deal.
I think you have to erase the warm and fuzzy feeling regarding Ortiz. In this situation the Sox have an option on Ortiz that probably pays him a little more than market value for 2011. No one is telling him to kick rocks this winter. Also, it sounds as if Ortiz values himself as being a $10 mil a year player so I doubt he would sign a 3/$15 deal right now. I see nothing wrong with at least waiting until after 2011 to offer him a new deal. As a Yankee fan I certainly understand the “legacy deals” that iconic players get but I’m not sure if Papi is that guy to do that with, and certainly not this winter.
I agree! I was just stating what I thought he would be worth to the sox. I am no dummy, I know he wants pujols money and thinks he is worth it, he is not! However I was making the point that he is not done and can continue to play at a relatively high level.
I think you have to erase the warm and fuzzy feeling regarding Ortiz. In this situation the Sox have an option on Ortiz that probably pays him a little more than market value for 2011. No one is telling him to kick rocks this winter. Also, it sounds as if Ortiz values himself as being a $10 mil a year player so I doubt he would sign a 3/$15 deal right now. I see nothing wrong with at least waiting until after 2011 to offer him a new deal. As a Yankee fan I certainly understand the “legacy deals” that iconic players get but I’m not sure if Papi is that guy to do that with, and certainly not this winter.
“Imagine what his numbers would have been without the slow start, maybe .290, 40hr, & 115 RBIs is not out of the question.”
Yes, imagine. Imagine Ortiz not going on 35 years old, next year could be even better!
Wow guys give me a break. Read what i wrote, I said he had good numbers but could have been better without the slow start.
The sarcasm is stupid! I never said he was elite, never said he deserves a 10mil a yr contract for 5 yrs!
Once again, he had a good season and would be worth a 3 yr/ 15mil contract. Thats it, there is not a lot of risk there for the sox!
I do know that he will not accept that offer but I think would be more than fair due to his decline at the plate, but by no means is the guy DONE, which was my entire point of the first post.
I dare someone to argue that he is done according to last years numbers. If he is then 60% of all MLB players will need to retire!
…end of rant
More like 90% should think about hanging it up if that’s the case
your def of “done” is comical. I’d take 10 “done” players who hit .270-30-100. So would any team on the planet.
An aging 34 DH is not in postion to demand a multi-year deal. His value is in the home run and ops. He needs to realize that baseball is getting away from players that can only provide some pop and little else. sure a high ops is great but what about average. He has been regressing since his 2007 campaign and is no longer a 3 hole hitter. i feel he needs boston as much as boston needs him, meaning he benefits from there strong lineup with balanced righty and lefty hitters. Vladdy produced at the same level as ortiz this past season and got half of what ortiz will get next season. One year 12.5 million is a great deal for both parties considering age with a league valuing a dh around 6 to 6.5 million in this market.
If he honestly thinks he can still hit, then he ought to have no problem going year-to-year with his contracts. All he has to do is produce, and if he does he’ll get another deal next winter.
Seems to me that the 10 best hitters in the league can hit same-handed pitching.
So David, you are a top 10 hitter yet you had a roller-coaster year? Take the 12.5 and enjoy another year being worshipped in Boston! Poor guy!
Again; compare him to Teixeira’s season. Mark has some points in his defense, like slightly better overall numbers in 2010, contributes on defense, etc. But really, Ortiz was pretty close to Mark this year, at least with hitting, and the structure of the season mirrors pretty nicely too. Both had horrible starts to the season, both really picked it up in the middle, and both struggled some down the stretch (Ortiz had that cold patch earlier, and warmed up again right at the end while Mark was pretty strong right up to the finish line, where he started to peter out right around his toe injury). Now why does Mark Teixeira, with a 20+mil yearly salary, get almost no flack for his “roller-coaster” season, and Ortiz, who was only a notch or two below Teixeira this year, only is earning 12mil, gets attacked? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a rabid fan who will argue Ortiz is the best DH ever, all the time, I thought he had lost it last year. But come on folks; this was a good year. Why does he get so much criticism?
Because Ortiz wants a new contract and Texeira doesn’t. Also Tex’s D gets him mad points. Oh, and Texeira didn’t state that he was one of the 10 best hitters last year.
Because Ortiz wants a new contract and Texeira doesn’t. Also Tex’s D gets him mad points. Oh, and Texeira didn’t state that he was one of the 10 best hitters last year.
Tex has gotten flack for his season. His usual slow start was longer than usual and it did not go unnoticed. ALso, I think you greatlt under estimate the value of a GG 1B vs a DH only. The MAJOR difference is the Yanks are not in any position to do anything about it and the Sox ARE in a position to make a choice.
Again; compare him to Teixeira’s season. Mark has some points in his defense, like slightly better overall numbers in 2010, contributes on defense, etc. But really, Ortiz was pretty close to Mark this year, at least with hitting, and the structure of the season mirrors pretty nicely too. Both had horrible starts to the season, both really picked it up in the middle, and both struggled some down the stretch (Ortiz had that cold patch earlier, and warmed up again right at the end while Mark was pretty strong right up to the finish line, where he started to peter out right around his toe injury). Now why does Mark Teixeira, with a 20+mil yearly salary, get almost no flack for his “roller-coaster” season, and Ortiz, who was only a notch or two below Teixeira this year, only is earning 12mil, gets attacked? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a rabid fan who will argue Ortiz is the best DH ever, all the time, I thought he had lost it last year. But come on folks; this was a good year. Why does he get so much criticism?
Notice most of the negative comments come from Twins (jealous they didn’t keep him) and NY (just plain old mouth poppers) fans?
Notice most of the negative comments come from Twins (jealous they didn’t keep him) and NY (just plain old mouth poppers) fans?
“You tell me, how does a guy who is declining finish in the top 10 best hitter in the league”
Answer: HgH
You tell me, how does a guy who is declining finish in the top 10 best hitter in the league,”
A: HgH
Well that was childish.
Really? I thought Arod’s guy was in jail.
David, if you really want security, you should take a significant yearly pay cut. 2 years, 10 million is about your value at this point in your career.
I’m not convinced until he proves he isn’t a black hole in the DH spot for the first 2 months of the season.
By that standard everyone should be worrying about Mark Teixeira too. He had a below .200 avg for the first two months, and while I’m too lazy to look up any other stats, I know he was hitting as bad or worse than Ortiz during that stretch.
Now yes, Ortiz also did this last year while Teixeira hasn’t had that rough of a start before, and you could argue that Teixeira in the field still brought something to the team. But the point I make is that a lot of good hitters started off slow this year, but the only one who seems to really get a lot of criticism for it is Ortiz. And thus, why he’s getting fed up with it.
Texeira is also younger and not in a contract year.
True. Oh I know, there are plenty of reasons to prefer Teixeira over Ortiz, I’m not saying Papi is really on the same level. I just meant this one year, in terms of production, they are pretty close.
Although yes, I understand that Ortiz gets more attention because of the contract year and all that. Just trying to find some perspective, cause it feels at times like he’s getting attacked more than is deserved.
And he won Jeter a Gold Glove last year.
Texeira is also younger and not in a contract year.
Lots of hitters get to slow starts. Alot of hitters are gonna get off to slow starts and prolonged slumps. That’s not a forgone conclusion. However, in Ortiz’s case, in a division that is the toughest in baseball that if your not careful, teams are gonna take off as we saw with the Yanks in ’09 and the Rays in ’08. The Red Sox simply cannot afford to have someone that is vital to their production like Ortiz to take a slump like his, there are no excuses, and I haven’t even brought up Ortiz’s sub-.600 OPS vs LF pitching in a division that headlines LF aces like CC and David Price. The only reason the Yankees got by with Tex slumping is mainly because of Cano and Swisher’s consistensy.
I’m not convinced until he proves he isn’t a black hole in the DH spot for the first 2 months of the season.
Security? C’mon Dave. Ordinary fans don’t give a sheet about your security. The rent is too damn high.
Security? C’mon Dave. Ordinary fans don’t give a sheet about your security. The rent is too damn high.
His cumulative numbers are impressive but his .599 OPS against lefties last year is not. It is just too easy to neutralize him late in close games. You could probably even make the case he should sit against lefty starters. That all affects his value.
Also, some of the contracts being suggested on this thread are ludicrous. When he says he wants security, I doubt he means 3 years for $15M considering he is already potentially under contract for 1 yr and $12.5M. He probably wants something like 3 years $30M in which case Theo would have to be high as kite to offer him that.
I think that two years at $19M will eventually get it done. Maybe with a team option for a third year.
The guy definitely sounds a bit insecure. If he’s one of the top 10 hitters in baseball what is he afraid of?
12.5 million is a lot of money. Go have another top 10 season and you’ll likely get another contract for that amount the next season.
It sounds like he wants financial security for the lean years he knows are coming. Once he stops hitting HR’s, he’s a 3-4 million player before he’s done in the league.
Considering half the teams in the league (NL) can’t even employ him on a full time basis, he should be thankful if the Sox pick up that option.
That said, his petulant sense of entitlement in the press every other day in regards to his long term deal for big money is tiresome.
Interjecting Texiera into a conversation regarding whether or not the Sox should give Ortiz an extension or pick up his option for a very well above market 1/$12 mil deal shows that SOME Sox fans are just not able to deal with the reality of the business of baseball. I guess the same can be said about Yanks fans and Jeter, even though Jeter’s situaiton has more hostorical relevance (3,000 hits, capt of team, debatably a top 5 yankee, etc, etc).
Try looking at it this way… how much is a really productive, free agent, 3 slot hitter worth these days if the Sox had to replace him?
I give up. You somehow have lost track of things. I clearly have said at least 10 times that the Red Sox should pick up his 2011 option @ $12.5 mil. WHy you keep acting as if I said something different is puzzling. All I said was is that there isn’t any reason to extend him at this point.
There isn’t any reason NOT to extend him at this point. They have the money, he does his job, he doesn’t cause trouble, etc. It’s easy. Just extend him a year or 2.
He hasn’t played more than 100 innings at 1B since 2004, and he’s had only two positive UZR seasons in the past eight years. I think it’s safe to say he’s somewhere between well below average and terrible defensively. He’s also one of the slowest players in the MLB – remember him getting forced out at 2B in the allstar game by Marlon Byrd? Yeah. There is no way he should get multiple years, and I think he would be making much, much less money if he didn’t play for the Red Sox (or Yankees).
I commented on this guy way before this story and i mentioned the Sox would decline his 12.5 million option, back then it would be a slap to his face, now its funny that Ortiz is insisting on them declining it, if i was Theo, it would already be done and I would tell Ortiz, hey your a free agent, lets see what other teams are going to pay you on a multi year basis and we will compete with it to keep you in Boston. and in the end you get Ortiz with his multi year security and Boston only paying him 15 million for 3 years, its a win win situation here.
And the Yankees would pick him up to DH for them and DESTROY the Red Sox (and everyone else) next year.
Yanks don’t need another lefty that can’t hit LH. We just corrected one and in his name is Granderson. Plus, Yanks don’t need another DH when you have Posada, Montero, Arod and possibly others in the mix.
Btw, I seriously doubt that Theo won’t pick up Ortiz’s option.
and makes it easy to DFA him 1 and a half years into his contract.
The Sox should pick up his option and restructure the deal so that Papi gets a 625K contract for 20 years. Then, when he’s done in two years, he can still receive some of this money later in life. You know, the Bobby Bonilla approach.
If they intend on serious post-2011 offers to FA’s Agon,Puljos,Fielder they should not extend Ortiz. They need the flexiblity to move people around.
This is the only valid argument I have seen as to why they shouldn’t extend him but I think with all the other contracts expiring they should have more than enough to make a serious run at any of those players even if they extend Ortiz at his current rate (which I doubt they would have to do)
I Think one year is def enough for david. With the Troubles at the plate he’s been having early in the year, it’s only a matter time before he just dosn’t break out of that early slump. If he wants a multiyear deal really badly, knowing epstein his time in boston might be over.
Tough luck, Ortiz. If the Sox want to pick up your option (their RIGHT, which you agreed to when you signed), you’re just going to have to “prove” yourself all over again. Don’t like it? Go back home and see if you can pull in $11M somewhere else.