The Braves’ main offseason goal is to add at least one outfielder and it seems like they’ll acquire one via trade, according to MLB.com’s Mark Bowman. Here’s the latest on the Braves’ search for an outfielder plus other hot stove notes:
- The Braves appear to have shown interest in Pat Burrell, but he may be too expensive for Atlanta. One reason Burrell fits in Atlanta: he’s right-handed and the Braves are looking to complement the team’s lefty-heavy lineup.
- B.J. Upton may be available, but the Braves don’t seem interested in taking a chance on the Rays center fielder.
- The Braves will have a better idea of their spending power once they determine whether they can trade Kenshin Kawakami. Multiple Japanese teams showed interest in the right-hander earlier in the offseason.
- Not surprisingly, the Braves seem reluctant to consider trading Jair Jurrjens.
- Javier Vazquez will become a target if they need to fill a rotation spot. Vazquez excelled in Atlanta in 2009, but the Braves already have Jurrjens, Kawakami, Tim Hudson, Tommy Hanson, Derek Lowe and Mike Minor.
They can’t trade Jurrjens until Tehran and/or Delgado (or some of the other young guns) are ready… Seems more likley they would trade him as FA approaches bc he is a Boras client. As much as I’d like to see JJ for Kemp or Rasmus, it seems unlikely. At least until some of these prospects are ready.
The Braves have enough pitching that they can stand to lose JJ, imo. Jurrjens was the fourth best starter this year, and if he stays he may even be the fifth best next year with a full season of Minor. Hudson/Hanson/Lowe is a good 1-3, and the Braves can easily find another #4-5 guy to fill in in the event of a JJ trade. They could even use Minor and Beachy in the 4-5 spots if absolutely necessary, but I don’t know about giving two spots to rookies. Still, it’s an option.
The point is that, if the right deal can be made (i.e. Kemp or Rasmus), the inclusion of Jurrjens should not be a dealbreaker. The Braves need offense much more than they need pitching, and if Jurrjens is the one who has to be dealt to do it, then it should be done.
I would take Kemp or Rasmus as well. But it seems unlikely. Plus consider that lowe and huddy won’t be around too much longer and are both old. JJ had an off year bc of his injuries, but he’s a #2 based on talent. His 2009 numbers are much more indicative of what he can do. Minor and beachy have not proven themselves yet. While I would endorse trading JJ for Kemp (assuming we could extend his contract and not lose him in 2 years), I’m simply saying I would doubt that Wren will trade JJ until some of these younger golden arms are closer to being ready. Otherwise… We are much more prone to nightmare scenarios.. Huddy gets hurt and Lowe returns to being ineffective. Suddenly Hanson is our only good pitcher. So I get a JJ trade.. I just think we’re 2 years early on it. More likely would be a lesser pitcher for Rajai Davis.. Beachy for Davis as an example. Doesn’t hurt anyone too much. Adds 50 steals to our lineup.
If you’re not making any moves because of fear of a pitcher injury, then you’re never going to make any moves. For an example of what this looks like, look at the Atlanta Braves. They have an embarrassing amount of pitching, yet the only guys on the entire 40-man who can be expected to do anything close to productive offensively are Heyward, McCann, and Prado. Chipper is nice as well, but every play/at bat he’s involved in is basically a game of Russian Roulette. He’s just one misplaced dirt clod away from an oblique injury that sidelines him for 5-10 days.
I admit that a Kemp deal may be an unlikely, and a Rasmus deal even moreso, but if you’re always waiting for prospects to be ready before you deal pitching, then you’ll always be waiting on prospects. Hudson and Lowe’s impending FA should have no bearing on a JJ deal. They’re both here for at least two more years, and by that time JJ will probably be getting expensive as well. He’s still under team control technically, but he’s probably going to get very expensive through arb, especially with Boras.
I think if we wait two years, then it will be two years late. At that time, JJ will either have a large amount due to him through arb because he’s pitched well, or he won’t because he hasn’t pitched well. Either way, he won’t have as much trade value because A) He’s expensive or B) He isn’t as good as everyone thought back in 2010.
Your points are well taken. I’m not saying don’t make any moves because of fear of injury. That’s simply one thing to think about when deciding to trade away our only other good young established arm. That’s more my point. Huddy and Lowe are fine but have question marks and are not long term solutions. Hanson and JJ are the only established young arms we have. Generally if you have guys like that you build around them. But bc JJ is a BOras client, I get that he may not be around beyond 2014. If we can’t get a Kemp/Rasmus or even Ellsbury type guy, then there isn’t even anything worth trading JJ for. And there’s no reason to think he isn’t as good as his 2009 numbers indicate. I’m not saying we have to wait for Tehran/delgado/Vizcaino (sp?) to be cy young contenders. But none of these guys are ready to even make a spot start. It’s minor/beachy and pray for rain.
I totally agree the offense is not enough. The Phills have 3 stud arms to match up with hanson/hudson/JJ or Lowe and three times the hitting, even without werth. So if we could get a 4 year star hitter, I’d do it right now. But since that seems unlikely, I think it’s more realistic that they might trade one of the younger non-tehran arms for something like Willingham or R. Davis.. Which would be helpful without crushing our pitching depth or current rotation.
You are right that if JJ’s numbers decline he won’t have as much appeal.. but prior to this fluky injury riddled year, he had done nothing to suggest that he wasn’t going to be a very solid #2 pitcher for a long time. If his skills remain constant we will be able to trade him even if his price tag rises. We just won’t be able to trade him for 3 years of Matt Kemp… More likely it will be a deal for one big time prospect, like Sabathia for Matt Laporta kind of deal.
So I guess it boils down to trade JJ now or trade him in 3 years… Bc unless something weird happens, no one seems to think he will be around for the rest of his career. Which is sad. Losing Hanson would be sadder.
On the flip side, if we do trade JJ now, they could prob bring Javy V back for a small amount of money to bridge the gap for a year.
Sorry I rambled.
I’m just saying unless they can get back a stud who isn’t going to be a FA after 1 season (thank you JD drew and Mark Teixeira), then they wont trade JJ now. They’d instead trade a lesser guy for a lesser guy.
“…..but prior to this fluky injury riddled year, he had done nothing to suggest that he wasn’t going to be a very solid #2 pitcher for a long time..”
I disagree. JJ is a good pitcher but nothing spectacular. His xFIP ERA in 2008 was 3.94 and in 2009 it was 4.34. Last year it was 4.47. His ’08 season was really the “fluky” season. He had an abnormally low BABIP of .274 which postively affected his other stats. JJ has no “out” pitch and relies on his defense to get him out of tough situations. My guess is that he will never be much more than a #3 type pitcher or even a #4 on a really good team. Many Braves fans think of him as an “ace” but he is far from it. If the Braves could get back Colby Rasmus for him a couple of upper tier prospects I would be leaping for joy.
you are right – he is more a very solid #3… But since he’s so young I think there’s room for upside. He’s never going to be a cy young guy. Perhaps tim hudson is a nice example of what he could be. Sinkerballer with great control. I would also be leaping for joy in that Rasmus scenraio, it just seems so unlikely. Maybe Hunter Pence? Otherwise, just keep him. I guess the lesson I’m learning is that his value is only likely to go down. Right now he is cheap and that makes him appealing to other teams. But I would still only trade him right now for someone on the Rasmus/Pence level. Otherwise it would behoove the Braves to keep him and try to let their deep rotation be an asset. If only the Braves could play defense.
I like the idea of Pat Burrell in LF for the Braves, but I’d rather see them go for someone like Josh Willingham.
Don’t see any reason why the Nats would trade Willingham, and don’t see whythey would trade him to an intra-division rival. As solid as his season was last year, the Nats should be asking for a proven SP and a minor league bat to replace him.
Willingham is likely not in the Nats long-term plans and they likely won’t be contending next year. Front office has already stated that they want to get younger and more athletic, and given the state of the OF FA class this year, Willingham is going to attract a lot of attention from clubs who can’t get in on Crawford/Werth. And yeah, they’re going to want a solid return, but he’s only got one year left on his contract so I don’t think teams are going to have to overpay for the guy. As for trading him to a division rival, I honestly don’t think they care with only one year left on his contract. If they can get some solid young arms(which the Braves have plenty), they’ll likely pull the trigger.
Should we throw in Zimmerman too?
Eh? Zimmerman is obviously in the Nats long-term plans and he’s twice the player Willingham is.
Zimmerman is signed through 2013.
If the Nats offer arbitration to Willingham (that’s a given), he’ll be with the Nats through 2011, or he could get a 2-3 year deal this winter. It’s not like the Nats have a flood of minor league talent coming to push Willingham out of left field. Sure, there’s Harper, but one player isn’t exactly a flood.
Why is it for the Nats to not call Willingham a long term piece, but it’s OK for the Braves to want the same player for a few years?
I’m just going by comments I read from the front-office and the fact that they shopped Willingham a bit last year. Let’s be realistic, Willingham isn’t exactly a stud player, but he’s likely going to be expensive and I don’t see him giving the Nats a discount. Is it worth it for a team, who wants to get younger and more athletic, to give multiple years to a player who’s an injury risk and likely to start regressing?
It’s ok for the Nats to want to hold onto him, that’s fine. But the Braves are likely contenders next year and he’d have more value to the Braves than the Nats. That’s all I was getting at.
Josh isn’t the most athletic player on the team, but he is a serviceable left fielder, and is the second best hitter on the team, now that Dunn is gone. And if Dunn doesn’t return, Josh will be better than any of Dunn’s replacements.
Personally, I’d offer him a 3/$15M deal to start and be willing to bump it to 3/$24M.
With the lack of hitters here in DC, I could argue that he’s more valuable here, especially since we have at least 1 year of control.
I want Willingham, but Rizzo wants a top-10 talent, and I don’t think he’s worth that for only one year. If an extension comes with it, i’m all for it. Maybe send a few pitchers over, maybe that would get it done.
thats because rizzo is a shaky GM at best
So, Rizzo is shaky because he won’t trade a good player to a division rival for a bargain basement price? Why should Rizzo not get a Top 10 talent for Willingham?
Are you one of those guys that think since the Nats lost 90+ games last year, they should trade away their major league talent for minor leaguers that will help them down the road?
Not sure about Shaky, but when you ask for outrageous returns for inter-Division or even Inter-League teams, you lose respect. Why not just say, “I’m not looking to trade him” or “he’s not on the block unless I get blown over.” Everyone wants talent like Willingham, because they aren’t exceptional and can be believed to be had for little. There’s nothing wrong with asking for the moon for a very decent player, but it’s not always wise if you want to be taken seriously. I think it happens because people keep asking, so he’s in high demand.
Because Willingham isn’t worth Top 10 talent. He’s good and better than anybody the Braves could throw out there, but c’mon.. he isn’t exactly Manny Ramirez with the bat.
Given that even a top 10 talent is not a sure thing, I think you’d have to give up a top 10 prospect for a hitter like Willingham whose 2010 OPS was .848 (.841 for his career). His 2010 OPS would have lead all Brave regulars (excluding D. lee’s time in ATL and back up catcher David Ross). To add a guy like Willingham who would be one of your best hitters, you’d have to pay the piper…
You are greatly overvaluing Willingham. There is no team who would give up a decent starting pitcher or even a top prospect for a defensively challenged LF who has one year left on his contract.
Rizzo is shaky because he has made some strange decisions, like asking for the moon for Adam Dunn who will be a free agent this winter. He could have probably gotten a boatload of good prospects for Dunn from a team like the White Sox but he idiotically was asking for players like Gordon Beckham or Alexei Ramirez instead.
And he isn’t going to get a top ten talent for Willingham either. Would you wanted the Nats to give the Braves a top ten talent for Matt Diaz after the 2009 season?
I would hope if I’m a Braves fan Burrell is plan C or D. I mean I understand why he could be a fit. But aren’t there better options? What about Magglio? He’s coming back from an injury, but the Tigers are said to be still interested in bringing him back. So he can’t be that bad. But if I’m a Braves fan and Burrell is in LF come opening day, I’m not bummed, but I’m not exactly thrilled either.
You will be bummed once you watch him play defense.
I agree. No reason to give up prospects to a division rival when there are perfectly viable options on the FA market.
Carlos Quinten???
The Cubs would love to unload Kosuke Fukudome…
No thanks, the Mets are under a new front office.
Not even if we throw in Alfonso Soriano and the $72M remaining on his contract?
Hmm as long as we can add Oliver Perez and Bobby Bonilla’s contract until 2035.
Wow. OK, you got me there!
The Cubs would have to eat nearly all of his salary if the Braves were to fit him into their payroll. He makes about $12 million a year more than he is worth.
Damn you smart baseball people. Where is Neil Huntington when Jim Hendry needs him?!
Stay away from Burrell. The Braves defense is bad enough and I just don’t buy his numbers in 90 or so games with the Giants.
Josh Willingham, Luke Scott, BJ Upton. If the Sox sign Werth or Crawford, I can see Ellsbury being available, although they probably want him to prove to be healthy first. Same goes for the Yankees and Brett Gardner.
If Werth and Crawford are out of the equation(which is pretty likely), my preference would be either Luke Scott or Josh Willingham for LF. If they can get a consistent OBP bat with some pop in LF, they can afford a platoon in center field. Nate McLouth is already under contract, and Matt Young will probably get a long look in ST.
Martin Prado
Chipper Jones
Jason Heyward
Brian McCann
Luke Scott/Josh Willingham
Nate McLouth/Matt Young
Alex Gonzalez
Freddie Freeman
Honestly not a bad lineup. McLouth hit well since re-joining the team, so hopefully he can get back on track next year.
Why is McLouth and Young above Gonzo and Freeman?
Gonzo is one of the least patient guys on the team. McLouth, despite his struggles this year, is still a better hitter than Gonzalez. Freeman is a rookie, and considering they started Heyward in the #7 hole last year when he was the #1 prospect in baseball, I can’t see them starting Freeman above that for 2011.
But the lineup probably won’t be in that order regardless. No idea how Fredi is going to construct it. All I know is Chipper needs to be in the #2 hole, not the #3 spot. His best asset is the walk, not producing runs.
Since McLouth does have an eye, he’d be great for the 8-spot. That way when they want to pitch around him, he wont swing. Gonzo has more pop in a spot where we need it over OBP. Freeman is an good unknown quantity, so I see him in the num 7 spot.
Yea, I think Freeman will start lower, with the opportunity to move up in the order. And I completely agree with the Chipper not being a #3 hitter anymore. I actually had him in my line-up prediction as 5 or 6 hole hitter, but 2 would be fine as well because he gets on base.
As of Chipper not in the #3 hole, I think he’d be fine there, because of the walks. Num 2 spot seems more ideal, it all depends on if Heyward can hit like a num 3 guy. Capitol Avenue had him @ num 1. That way he could get a lot of walks. We don’t have any1 who can run well aside from Heyward anyway. I personally like Prado leading off. He is very aggressive. He wont walk much, but he will hit more and for more power.
Because everybody knows that having power is a primary trait for a leadoff man.
Rickey Henderson wants me to tell you that stealing is a great way to get to second base, but pounding a double to the warning track is okay, too.Prado’s career OBP is .350, and he’s probably good for about 60 XBH a year – most of them doubles. Atlanta could do much worse than batting him first.
I agree with you guys. Prado should be batting lead off assuming the Braves don’t acquire someone that would make more sense for that role. NL_E_R was making it sound like it was good Prado should be hitting leadoff BECAUSE of his power. It is obvious that Braves could do much much worse than having Prado bat lead off, such as having McLouth do it…
Sorry, I am not the best at putting things. I only meant to say that Prado gets his power mostly from batting lead-off and not the other way around.
When the power comes from batting 1st and not from anywhere else, then yes. Prado is a stereo-typical num 2 hitter, but he showed us last year what he could do leading off.
I really like BJ Upton, but he’s so frustrating to watch at times. The guy has a world of talent, but plays when he feels like it. He’s had issues with attitude and hustle the last few years, and to his credit, he’s gotten better this year, but he’s wasting talent and future monies.He seems to have little respect for Maddon, so sometimes he dogs it and he knows there won’t be any real repercussions. It’s a shame because Atlanta would have a perfect fit for him. I’m guessing after the incident with Ramirez, the Braves would rather not have another potential player with an ‘attitude’ issues playing for Fredi Gonzales. If he ever sees the light he can be a real star like his counterpart Crawford.
jair should be traded for a top tier center fielder under team control. We need another bat really bad and without jair our staff is not that much worse. We as braves fans have become accustomed to waiting till next year for something to pan out when we never go out and get anything to make us better. Wren do something to prove me wrong because im tired of watching the phils out do us .
Jurrjens is not going to net the Braves a top-tier center fielder. He’s coming off a season riddled with injuries and he’s always been overrated. I’m a Braves fan, but the guy is likely a good 3rd starter. They’d have to include Minor or Delgado, or another top arm.
He could if that said centerfielder is having similar problems that JJ is having. Until last year, he was a flat out STUD, maybe not big name Ace, but could be a top of the rotation guy. Yes, he’s coming off an injury season, but there are some top tier center fielders that are coming off of seasons with questions as well. (i.e. Upton, Kemp, Rasmus)
I can see a Jurrjens/Upton swap, especially if the Rays trade one of their starters like they’re expected to. Then again, we don’t even know if Upton is available, especially with Crawford leaving. They’ve got Jennings ready, but losing two starting outfielders probably isn’t wise with their payroll.
I don’t see the Dodgers pulling the trigger on a Jurrjens/Kemp trade. Kemp had a bad year and has attitude issues, but he’s got a world of talent and the Dodgers have no solid replacement for him.
I don’t even consider Rasmus remotely available unless the Cardinals are blown away and get another outfielder in return. They just got rid of Ludwick, have no in-house replacement for Rasmus, and likely won’t be able to go after a top FA outfielder due to throwing the world at Albert Pujols soon. There’s really no reason for the Cardinals to shop a cheap player who’s under team control for at least 4 more years and projects to be an top-tier outfielder, if he’s not already.
I’m not saying necessarily a straight up trade for any of those guys, but a trade centered around JJ would at least be a good starting point. As far as Kemp and the Dodgers go, who knows what is going to happen in LA. Rasmus I actually can see a little bit, and by that I mean something with JJ and maybe Schaefer. The Cardinals need some pitching help, one of their biggest holes last year. Wainwright is a stud, but Carp has had injury problems and is getting odler. The rookie was good, but who knows how long that will last, and then after that is a big question mark. If you can get a relatively low cost young pitcher and a replacement OF with a high ceiling, then it’s something to at least take a look at.
“Wainwright is a stud”
Yes he is, and where did said stud come from? Oh that’s right, the braves. The Braves should not and will not trade any more of their potential pitching gems to the Cardinals after the JD Drew debacle.
Wainwright was in the minors if I remember right, or just a prospect. JJ at least has been in the MLB and you have a better idea on what you are getting. Wainwright could have been a flop like many prospects are, just happened he turned out. And JD Drew isn’t the the same type of player we are talking about with Rasmus either. JJ isn’t as good as Wainwright, and Rasmus is in terms of value at age and price better than Drew. So we’d be trading less for more. Not to mention that Drew was a one year deal and Rasmus is under control for 4 more.
Oh I understand all of what you say. Wainwright was a prospect, but he was a TOP prospect, similar to the one(s) the Braves would have to give up to pry Rasmus away from the Cardinals. And JJ isn’t the focal point in a deal for Rasmus, we’re talking Tehran and much more just as a starting point.
And I am not sold on Rasmus, 148 K’s last year is a big increase from the year before. Not saying he’s not talented, but I don’t want to see the Braves feed the Cardinals their farm system for him.
he can strike out 180 times next year and i won’t care if he makes the same amount of progress. He went from 16 to 23 homeruns, thats an increase in 7. same linear increase means he gets 30 next season. His defense is above average. Speed is above average. Their is a legit shot he has a 30/30 season next season(depending on where he bats in the order because Tony doesn’t let guys steal bases ahead of AP and Holliday).
Haha chill. I would love to have Rasmus on my team, think he’s gonna be an all star for years to come. However, the cost of getting him is not what I would want, and I guess I am just looking for any sort of negative part of him.
did u just say the cardinals biggest hole last year was starting pitching? they were 3rd or 4th in ERA, that was their biggest strength-try again. Their biggest need is middle infield help and the only one worth while on the Braves that would be enticing enough to pry rasmus away is Prado.
When they fell apart at the end of the season he had to do with starting pitching. They had some at the top, but even those guys began to falter. Not to mention how the only guys that lasted late into ballgames were Wainright and Carpenter which eats away at your pen. (Along with the management of the the pen by LaRussa, but that’s another point) Why do you think they gave up Ludwick, a productive player for Westbrook (an innings eater)? It was because you need SP to go deeper into games to save the pen. This is my “try again”. ERA isn’t the only determination of a good rotation.
Schaefer has a high ceiling?
If you’re a hobbit.
Unfortunately the Braves play in Turner Field and not in the Shire.
Just two years ago (the year before Heyward) He was the Braves top Prospect, and the only thing that really slowed him was a hand injury. The talent is still there and if i remember right he is 22 or 23, so still young.
He was the Braves top position prospect and still has that ability as you said. Hanson was our top prospect. I hope Schafer’s hands get better and he starts producing again. I hate to see a good player go down because of 1 injury.
But the key word is “was.” Until he rebuilds his value I dont see why any team might be interested in him as part of a trade as a “high ceiling center fielder” as you called him.
If he regains that status, the Braves would have no reason to trade him. They’d just plug him into CF.
Just like Rasmus “was” in good graces with LaRussa, things change, but it doesn’t mean that the player isn’t still there. And if you look back, he wasn’t the center of the deal, JJ was, he was just a prospect that has a chance to be very comparable to Rasmus if he pans out. If he doesn’t you still have a proven comodity in JJ.
Well the Braves did basically the same thing, only with their SS. He was having a bad first half and the manager didn’t like him, so he got swapped for Alex “This is What it Would Look Like if Francouer was an Old Hispanic Guy that Played Shortstop” Gonzalez and a prospect that we turned into Rick Ankiel and Kyle Farnsworth.
The only difference is that Rasmus didn’t have a bad half season.
Kemp’s the only real option there…Rays don’t need another MOR arm, and Rasmus would cost JJ AND Minor. Young stud CF team-controlled for 4 more years.
The problem with Kemp is he’s Milton Bradley Lite. Dunno if the Braves want to trade a guy as valuable as JJ for that.
Rasmus would cost a lot more than JJ and Minor.
Probably, but not much more. They need an upgrade at 2B, so I think if they were intent on moving Rasmus(seriously doubt they are), he could be had for Jurrjens, Delgado, and Infante. Braves definitely won’t move Minor AND Jurrjens, wouldn’t make any sense until Delgado, Vizcaino, or Teheran are ready.
But Rasmus isn’t going anywhere.
Yeah, if the Braves are in the business of trading pitchers this offseason, I think they should try to pull off a deal trading Minor.
Saw him pitch in college a whole lot. He’s got okay stuff, but I think his minor league K rates last year are a blip on the map. If they can some how sell high on this fact, they might be able to get some good value. And he’s a lefty (which I realize the Braves need, but I just don’t see Minor panning out to be anything more than a #4 starter).
i’d think they would ask for Prado,Minor, and Schafer. seems to fill the cardinals needs better than Jurrjens/delgado/infante.
That might fill your needs more, but for the Braves right now, I think Prado is as likely to get traded as Pujols. (Note: In no way am I saying Prado is as good playing wise as Pujols)
They should trade Infante. As much as i want him on our club his value couldn’t be higher.
And we don’t have the room for him. That is unless our team gets hit with a million injuries again.
Don’t have room for him? Chipper Jones is the Braves 2011 3rd baseman, you can probably see what I’m getting at here. He’s an injury risk and Infante is his backup, a perfect backup really. Plus, Infante alone isn’t going to bring in much value in a trade. Teams aren’t going to line up top talent for a super-utility guy, All-Star or not.
Chipper is playing 3rd, Gonzo can be an unknown quality while @ the Ted. Infante can play CF in emergency. I think we need him. Besides, Chipper’s best years have been with time spent on the DL.
I don’t understand why the Braves would go for Burrell unless they just want to make a move for making a moves sake. His D will kill you when he goes into one of his slumps and will drive the fans nuts. There are better options, especially on the trade market.
Either this story is flawed or the Braves are fooling themselves. They can afford Burrell and Upton should be on everyone’s radar. Something doesn’t jive here. The Braves can’t pass up on these two if not presented with a better option.
I think Braves have more money then they let on… but sadly I doubt they want to spend it. I am very curious at Burrell’s asking price right now. Wren will still probably sign another reliever too. I just hate that we have passed over Dunn, Abreu, and Damon, Soriano because of a few million dollars.
Abreu, old and declining, not the defender he used to be. Damon, left-handed, not GREAT at anything anymore. Soriano (I assume you are talking Alfonso), yes because the Braves want more bad contracts on their books.
Dunn is the only good one that we have “passed on” and he’s also a lefty, and essentially worthless in the field.
It appears I didn’t make my point clear enough. I was talking about the FA market over the past few years from 2007. Also in not keeping Rafael when we had the money to keep him, yet Wren decided to pocket it for Liberty instead.
You are absolutely right you didn’t make your point clear. You never said anything about 2007. You just said that the braves passed over them, and my thinking is that you meant last off season, seeing as the braves were in the exact predicament as they are in now (needing a right handed LF).
And when throwing in “Soriano” at the end of a list of 3 OF’s that are not on the Braves, yes that is unclear that you are referring to Raphael.
One big ambiguous post.
MY point was that I am happy we have not invested any of our money in those players. Except maybe Dunn.
My apologies for being ambiguous. I think those guys would have been better than GA and the outfield we compiled last year. Granted we did save some money, Wren learned he could just pocket the money.
I just wish there were FA’s out there worth spending money on. Braves need to trade their pitching depth, but it seems like no one cares for pitching in this era.
Except for the team that just won the fall classic…
yeah, I just wish teams cared to acquire pitching and are able to give up and decent bat for it. If Giants had a bat or needed a pitcher we’d be able to make a trade.
Scott Hairston ir free agent.
When will the Braves stop lying to their fans? Wasn’t their pay-roll suppose to not drop down. It hasn’t been this low since 2000. It wouldn’t be a problem if they acquired decent players instead of spending on players like Garret Anderson and calling it a day.
Wouldn’t be shocked to see a deal based on Jurrjens for Rios.
I would. Dude was non-tendered last year. He had a decent year at the plate overall in 2010, but posted an OPS of .684 in the second half. Not that Jurrjens faired any better last year, but Jurrjens definitely has more value. I’d rather them just sign Andruw Jones than go that route.
I can maybe see a Jurrjens/Quentin swap.
First off, Rios was never non-tendered.
Secondly, Quentin is a joke of an NL player. He clearly needs to DH.
Lastly, Rios is a good defensive, speedy, and above average power for a CF. Would be an excellent fit.
My bad on the non-tender. He was claimed through waivers, correct?
And I think you’re overvaluing Rios. Yes, he has speed, but he was thrown out almost half of his SB attempts last year. And his 2010 season could easily be a fluke, and judging by his second-half numbers…..it likely was. Let’s face it, 2010 was his best year since 2007 and he STILL posted a sub .800 OPS. In fact, he only had one month where his OPS sat above .800 last year.
I would be…the White Sox depth is at Starting Pitching with Danks, Floyd, Buehrle, Peavy, and Jackson. Also, it took forever for the Sox to find a 5-tool CFer, they’re not going to let Rios out of their grasp…
I think the only way it happens is if the Sox acquired Rasmus like what was rumored earlier.
Then the Sox just move Rios to RF and CQ to DH where he belongs…but I don’t see Rasmus coming to the Sox…
How would the Braves fit Rios into the budget? He is owed about $50 million over the next four years. Maybe if we could trade Derek Lowe for Alex Rios. That is a lot of money for a player with a career OPS under .800.
I think the Braves are going to look real hard at the A’s. Dejesus makes their outfield very crowded. I think Billy Beane might move Rajai Davis or Coco Crisp cheap.
That makes sense, but I don’t think it will be as cheap as you think…one of their outfielders will be moved for sure though.
The cost might not be peanuts, but I think it will certainly be much cheaper than surrendering a king’s ransom for Upton, Kemp, or Rasmus. The Braves could then find a platoon partner for McClouth in left. Davis would give us a legit leadoff hitter with speed.
I know this is a braves feed and this is random/far fetched but what would it take for the Phillies to go after Upton? Can he play left or right field? They could move gold glove Victorino back to right. I like the idea of watching an Upton Victorino and Brown outfield. Plus I think he would be accepted in the Phillies clubhouse very well with Rollins and Howard as the key leaders of the team. I would love to see them eat half of Ibanez’s deal and pair him with Rizzoti and another low prospect to the Rays. I know, far fetched.
Rollins
Polanco
Utley
Howard
Upton
Victorino
Brown
Ruiz
Halladay
The Phillies would be wise to stay away from trades for a while. Their farm system is still relatively decent, but they can’t afford to keep trading away prospects, I don’t care what their budget is.
And the Rays aren’t going to want Ibanez, even at half price. Their payroll is going down for next year and I doubt they want another aging, defensive liability in LF.
The Phillies are losing Werth, but they’ll have the same team next year. It’s not like they’re gonna be losing ALL of Werth’s production. Brown and his platoon partner should be good for 20+ HR, 70+ RBI. Phillies just need to add a couple of relievers and bench players and they’re likely set.
Who is the Braves’ firstbasemen in 2011? Isn’t that a bigger hole to fill?
Freddie Freeman. Expect his name to be in 2011 ROY conversations.
Just like Brandon Wood’s last year??…oh wait nvm.
let’s hope not my friend. Without prospects though, we’d just have a bunch of aging veterans that aren’t worth a thing.
Like Jermaine Dye? But he says hes worth more than $1.5 million.
well, he’s done more in the Majors than any prospect has. I’m sure there are some prospects out there worth 1.5 mil.
I wished Wren would be smart and either keep D. Lee or go get Adam LaRoche, who Wren SHOULD’VE kept LAST off-season, instead of signing Troy Glaus.
I wished Wren would either keep D. Lee OR go out and get Adam LaRoche, who he should’ve kept LAST off-season, instead of going out and signing Troy Glaus.
Freddie Freeman
Freddie Freeman.
Edit: 2 slo
How many times has Wren made a move that had been speculated on before hand? I cant think of one. I dont expect the Braves to bring in a big name. I dont even see it being that important. Would it be great if they did? Sure. Can they win 90+ games again next year if they dont? Absolutely. Heyward is going to be better next year. Freeman can have a year similar to what we saw out of Heyward. Gonzales cant be as bad as what they got out of him/Escobar for the whole season (Gonzo hit 23 homers in ’10, the Braves got 6 from the SS position all year I think, you’d have to imagine it gets better.) Whoever plays CF next year cant be as bad as Nate was for most of last year (.170ish BA before being sent down?). The pitching staff will be solid again next year. Jurrjens was hurt a few time and under performed, Hanson was up and down, but had a good season. Lowe and Huddy will in somewhere around 15 like they always do. I project good things out of this team, regardless of who they bring on board this off season. LF and CF are definitely areas that need improvement, but its not as if they cant be competitive without a big name slugger out there. The pitching will ensure that they compete.
I disagree about Gonzalez. I don’t see any reason he will play as well as he did in Toronto. He is not that type of player. I would expect him to revert to the kind of guy he has always been. Not much power, not much defense, doesn’t get on base.
Exactly. Gonzalez is lousy and has always been lousy except for that fluky start to last season in Toronto.
I think you are taking too much away from him. I didnt intend to imply he would do what he did in Toronto, I just stated that it would have to be better than what the Braves had at SS last season. He hit 6 home runs with the Braves last year, that is 6 more than their starting SS hit for them before Gonzalez got there. If he hits 10 next year, that will be 4 more than the Braves got out of the SS position in 2010. Its not going to take much to best Escobars .238/.332/.284 that he put up. So my point was just that a full season of Gonzo will be an improvement over the 2010 output for Braves SS’s. I dont expect him to hit 25 long balls. The team won 91 games with all their holes last season. His career avg stats wont kill them next year.
There is considerably more to a players value than how many HRs they hit. Gonzalez has a career .294 OBP. Escobar was horrible in Atlanta last year, but he still walked and rarely struck out. I still can’t see how Gonzalez is an improvement. His value is in his price tag, which is cheap. And the Braves are going to get what they’re paying for.
They need to go after Delmon Young or Michael Cuddyer.
Ugh good lord no. Cuddyer is very expensive and is a one year rental. Delmon Young is a huge defensive liability and the Twins will probably be looking for a sizable return for him after he put up great numbers in 2010. I would much prefer Denard Span or some of the Twins great outfield prospects.
Rajai Davis would be perfect IMO. Still has some upside, won’t cost a boatload of prospects and has got game changing speed. If you can pry him away from Oakland and maybe sign Maggs then everybody else can fall into place, Rajai leadoff, Prado in the 2 hole, J-Hey down to 3, Maggs 4, Mac 5, Chipper 6, Freeman 7, Gonzo 8
I say trade for CoCo Crisp plug him in the leadoff spot and in center field,Sign Magglio Ordonez to a 2yr/16 mill deal and in the late innings replace him on defense with McLouth,Sign Jaoquin Benoit,Sign Rich Harden to a minor league deal and sign Javier Vazquez who will be cheap considering the year he is coming off of and sign Ty Wiggington who can backup Chipper at 3rd and can give him days off
1-Crisp
2-Prado
3-Heyward
4-Ordonez
5-McCann
6-Jones
7-Freeman
8-Gonzalez
Bench-Wiggington,Infante,McLouth,Ross
Rotation-Hudson,Hanson,Lowe,Jurjens,VAzquez/Minor/Beachy
If the Braves are going to spend ~$10mil on Burrell (or Ordonez for that matter), I don’t see why they don’t just spring a few extra bucks for Werth. Anything can happen, but it’s not like a short term deal for Burrell or Ordonez is going to help them in the long run because the FA market for OFs in 2012 doesn’t look much better than this year.
I’d actually hope the Braves are at least looking at Bautista or even Beltre. I have no delusions that Bautista could put up 40-50 HRs again, especially in the Ted, but he’s probably good for 30-35 which is about twice as much as anybody currently on the roster could be expected to hit. And there’s the obvious Chipper Jones insurance/replacement as well.
Werth is going to get overpaid and will be the Jason Bay of this off season if he goes to a team where he is expected to be “the guy.” I think he was a product of the lineup he was in for the most part. That being said if a team like the red sox picks him up, he’ll probably be worth the money they pay him. But I don’t think he would be a good fit for the Braves.
The Braves are not going to spend $10 million on Burrell or Ordonez. They are going to try to spend less than $5 million on one of them. It will be just like 2008 when we wanted to sign Bobby Abreu but the Angels offered him $6 million so we were stuck signing Garrett Anderson instead.
You almost always have to overpay for proven talent. The only time top hitters aren’t overpaid is when you develop them yourself from the farm level (something the Braves are terrible, terrible, terrible at doing) or when you’re just buying low on a guy who has had a bad year/is old/an injury risk/terrible defensively or some combination of the above. Either way it’s a risk that doesn’t always pay off: See again, the Braves.
So you either A) develop top tier hitting talent yourself, B) trade from a strength to get cheap top tier talent from another team, or C) overpay for it on the FA market.
Even if the Braves weren’t awful at A, it’s still not an option for this year because the best hitting talent they’ve got is a SS/3B in the rookie leagues. No help there. B is certainly an option, but the Braves tend to be overly hesitant in trading for actual talent. They’d rather give up less for a lower tier guy, who inevitably ends up being just that – a lower tier guy who provides lower tier production. The Braves have that in excess.
That leaves C. Someone is going to overpay, the Braves are no exception. I can understand not wanting to overpay for Werth because you think he’s unproven, a product of his park and/or lineup, a fluke, etc., but the point is that top tier talent is always overpaid. In hindsight, anyway. Very few guys at that level are actually worth what they’re actually being paid.
Chipper Jones, Andruw Jones (pre-sucky days), Brian McCann, Jason Heyward, Javy Lopez, Ryan Klesko, Martin Prado…I could go on.The Braves have developed PLENTY of good hitters, they just have no one in the immediate future for the other two OF spots. Hell Freeman is going to be the next good hitter that the Braves have developed.I realize open market FA’s are all overpaid, but I am saying in specifc to Werth’s case that I don’t think he can put up his numbers outside of an already really good lineup.
The Braves should hold onto JJ a while longer. He could net a much bigger return at the 2011 or 2012 trade deadline than he will right now. There are tons of free agent outfielders available this year. They aren’t as good as the guys we might be able to acquire via trade, but we don’t really have the payroll flexibility to add a guy like Matt Kemp anyway.
LOL. I love how this site about Bowman’s blog has more comments then Bowman’s blog, lol. U SUCK BOWMAN
this isn’t a site about Bowman’s blog. This is a site about all things trade rumors. There are four main writers whereas Bowman is the only writer on his blog, so there are always things to read and talk about here.
Edit: Check out Bowman’s MLB articles on braves.com. Those have more comments than this article.
Anyone else really jaded by the idea of Gonzalez at SS for an entire year? I really would like to trade him away. Gonzo and Moylan (maybe low prospect too) for Stephen Drew?
We have Infante to fill in at times if needed. It is a bit disturbing, but it is our worst spot. Maybe if Pastornicky does well in AAA, he can come in a little before August.
How about JJ and a bullpen arm (Moylan? Dunn?) for Franklin Gutierrez? Or instead of the arm, Infante? Then sign Jose Lopez on the cheap as a backup. I’m betting he has a resurgence in the NL, and could even end up starting.
Love Gutierrez, hate Jose Lopez. I don’t think we should, or would have to, give up JJ to acquire him. He has a team friendly contract but at the same time he dropped off offensively in 2010.
Any ideas on who the Braves would be willing to part with and the Mariners would want for FG?
Delgado + C. Johnson + Young sounds like a strong trade.
Very fair. But I doubt they’d do it. Their park is huge and he’s godly with the glove. Plus he’s signed dirt cheap. The only way I see them possibly doing it is if they dump Chone’s contract in there too.
Infante, Delgado, +, +…something like that. Then we could play Chone in LF and move him to 3B when Chip’s done.
Guttierez
Prado
Chip
McCann
Heyward
Gonzo
Freeman
Chone
KK + Delgado + Young for Guttierez + Chone + 4 mil for 2 seasons?
You need to bat Heyward behind Prado so he gets some pitches to hit. Prado performed considerably better while hitting in front of Heyward last year than anywhere else in the lineup.
you didn’t put Chone low enough. What a bust he was
This might sound ridiculous to some, but I wouldn’t mind putting together some pretty strong packages to build us a incredible outfield.
What about something based around Arodys Vizcaino or Randall Delgado, McLouth (plus half to 2/3 of his salary, plus pick up his buyout. Just give him to them as a stop-gap), a B level and a C level prospect to the Cardinals for Rasmus?
Then maybe Vizcaino or Delgado (whichever the Cards don’t take), Jurrjens, JJ Hoover, and a C level prospect or 2 (probably take 2) to the Brewers for Braun? He would have to waive his no-trade clause, but I don’t think he would have too much holding him in Milwaukee considering they probably won’t be very good after 2011. They would have to be willing to part with him, but for a great return like that I don’t think they could turn it down. Sounds like Teixeira Trade ’11, but we would have Braun for what? 6 years? Rasmus for 3+?
We draft so well and have a major load of prospects coming up, plus a lot of guys already under contract that sending away so many prospects would be tolerable. Look at the possible lineup!
Prado
Heyward
Chipper (though in all honesty, I think Chipper should hang it up and let Wren use the money to go after someone like Beltre… :::drool::: or move down in the lineup so Heyward can hit 3rd…)
Braun
McCann
Rasmus
Gonzalez
Freeman
That’s crazy good… SCARY.
The rotation would still be
Hudson
Hanson
Lowe
Minor
Beachy/Medlen/one of many young guys
Horrible. The Braves will be terrible in 4 years instead of amazing if we did this.
That is an awesome ATL Lineup, but highly unlikely. And I am not ready to see number ten hang it up. Every player has at least one more great season left in them.. Frank Thomas, Clemens, plus if Wren would just ask, chipper would eat some salary, he did it before. I am almost positive we will have a heyward, mcclouth, burrel/shafer/cody johnson outfield.
And I wouldnt mind a cheap resurgent andruw jones contract.
I don’t want to see Chipper go any more than you do, but the fact of the matter is he’s most likely going to be a REALLY sub-par defender with that knee and he needs to hit like he did in ’09 in ’11 for people to believe he isn’t washed up. It’s unfortunate, but true. I wish we could have him forever. It just isn’t happening, obviously. Just as the Yankees must prepare for a Jeter-less lineup, so must we prepare for a Chipper-less one.
If Chipper hits like he did in ’09, .264/.388/.430, it could be a long year. I think you mean ’08, where he gave his bid to hit .400. Either way, personally, I would let Chipper play for as long as he wants if he’s willing to take some sort of pay cut. He still has one of the best eyes in the game. Even in the “bad” (by his standards very bad) ’09 season, he still had 101 walks. Basically, until he loses his ability to have a high BB rate, he should keep playing. And I think that as long as his knee is healed and ready to go that his defense will be just fine — the Prado/Infante/Conrad trio sure hope so at least.
Whoops! Yeah… my bad. Definitely meant ’08.
How much do you think the Astros would want for El Caballo? Now THAT is some RH LF power. We prolly wouldn’t have a farm system left though and contract the disease known as “PHillies Syndrome”. The main symptoms are nausea, restlessness, trouble sleeping and lack of a workable farm system.
If we were willing to pay Lee’s entire contract, the Astros would give him to us and send Prospects to make it more fair. That is an atrocious contract that no NL team would trade anything for. MAYbe an AL team would give up a C+/B- prospect, split the contract with Houston, and make him a DH. I’d rather trade for Soriano than Lee.