The increase in Adrian Gonzalez trade chatter is the biggest news out of Fenway Park today. Here's a bit of extra news about those rumors plus some other Boston notes…
- Josh Byrnes tells WEEI.com's Alex Speier that the familiarity between the Red Sox and Padres front offices may actually be a hindrance in making a deal happen.
- Heath Bell's name has been mentioned in some of the Padres/Red Sox trade talks, tweets ESPN's Buster Olney. Top Boston prospects Casey Kelly and Anthony Rizzo are two of the names discussed in a potential package to San Diego, writes Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe.
- Olney also tweets that if Adrian Beltre's first preference is really to return to Boston, then admitting so probably cost him some leverage with the Athletics.
- Boston is Gonzalez's preferred trade destination, tweets Sports Illustrated's Jon Heyman, possibly due to the fact that the Sox are contenders and they can afford "to give him [a Mark] Teixeira deal."
- Are the Red Sox one of the teams interested in Russell Martin? Heyman tweets that Boston has "always liked" the former Dodger catcher. With Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Jason Varitek behind the plate, Heyman speculates that Martin could fill a utility role for Boston.
- Tim Wakefield talked to the Boston Globe's Peter Abraham about how 2011 will "probably" be his last season and how he's now more comfortable about losing his rotation spot.
- If the Red Sox had been successful in signing Mariano Rivera away from the Yankees, Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com reports that the Sox would've non-tendered Jonathan Papelbon before last night's deadline. Given the Bell-from-San Diego rumor noted earlier, you wonder if a Papelbon move is yet to come for the Red Sox this winter.
So Bell and AGon? That would be something! Maybe the Padres tried to include Bell to get Iglesias?
I was thinking that…
Maybe Rizzo/Lowrie/Kelly/Iglesias for the duo.
Personally, I still wouldn’t want to see the Sox trade away Iglesias. I wouldn’t be overly surprised to see maybe Kelly, Rizzo, Doubront, Pimentel to the Padres, Paps to the Braves and Braves prospects to the Padres, with AGon and Bell coming to Boston.
I’m hoping the Sox can keep at least 2 of Iglesias, Kalish, Lavarnway.
We don’t want Papelbon.
Papelbon doesnt want the Sox, so the question is…who DOES want Papelbon? ever since he “tweaked” his delivery, he has no deception, he can give that stupid look everytime he is about to throw but he throws grapefruits.
how about the Red Sox keep all three of Iglesias,Kalish,and Lavarnway, the deal is a slid three piece offer of Rizzo, Kelly,and Raymond Fuentes, San Diego is going to pry away two untouchable prospects from Theo, Fuentes is going to be the steal in the deal and Rizzo is going to be solid, the guy had Adrian like power. This is a great trade for both teams, sems like a Hanley like deal, where you guys win now and then watch the cost controlled player become a superstar for someone else.
Rizzo, Kelly, Pimentel, Iglesias. For the pair? I think if the Sox give up Iglesias they would want to keep Lowrie for infield help. Scutaro has only either 1 or 2 more years left on his deal…
Not enough to get the deal done. Heath and AGon are both all-stars.
So were Derek Jeter and Omar Infante…
the padres all starts were worthy.
I say it’ll be something close to Rizzo + Lowrie + Kelly + Lavernway + Doubront. Couple strong young arms, solid first base prospect, great catching prospect, and a middle infielder with good pop.
You have to think that Heath Bell and Adrian Gonzalez would both be type A free agents next year, so you have to start the deal by matching 4 compensation picks. Kelly and Lowrie were both first round picks. Rizzo was a 6th rounder, but has shown promise like a top 2 round pick. Lavernway is the exact same.
So you’re giving the 4 picks (2 first rounders, 2 supplemental picks), you’re taking out the signing bonuses that the Sox have already ponied up. You’re taking out the risk of these players not having the head for the bigs, they’ve all already proven that they’ve got what it takes, Kelly and Rizzo just need a year or two to develop, and then you’re getting Doubront on top of that.
That seems like a lot, but makes sense. I feel like you might have to add more to it still though. Maybe Rizzo, Lowrie, Kelly, Lavarnway, Doubront, and Tejeda?
i think thats the first time i’ve heard Oscar Tejeda’s name mentioned in these talks, and i’m not sure what the reason for that is. i feel like he would maker sense for the Padres.
I figured they need middle infield prospects, and Tejeda had a breakout year. Obviously he is a few years away still, but he could push the aforementioned deal over the top.
Yeah you may have to add another prospect. Navarro would do the trick, if you ask me. Possibly Kolbrin Vitek instead of Lavarnway and leave it at Rizzo, Kelly, Lowrie, Vitek, Doubront? Vitek looks like he’s going to be a stud.
Vitek does look good, but can’t be traded until June because he just signed this past year.
Vitek was just drafted last year, thus he cannot be traded.
5 star post. This trade you mentioned makes sense to both Sox and Padres.
I only leave out Lowrie because he’s just 1 year away from arb and the earlier article mentioned all minor leaguers.
Yeah, but you can probably sign him for 4 years/18mm or so. He’d be very affordable based on his injury history. Last year, though, it looked like he was starting to figure it out and get back into the swing of things. That’d be tough for Theo to stay with him through all his lows, then when he was finally becoming the player Theo saw in him, he gets dished. As is life, though.
Personally, I’m looking forward to seeing him on the Sox in 2011. I think he could really help against LHP (.338/.420/.606 line versus lefties in 81 PA’s last year)
I see multiple players involved in the near future.
I don’t see A-Gonz going to the Red Sox this offseason
I think we will soon see a resolution to the Gonzalez saga, because the Sox will probably have to make a big push to sign Beltre if they can’t get Gonzalez. They can’t go into the 2011 season without at least one of the Adrians.
Don’t see Beltre coming back unless he takes a 1-2 year deal. Just doesn’t make sense with AGonz, Fielder and PujOls possibly hitting the market next summer.
Heath Bell too?? Dammit, Olney! Keep your mouth shut, you’re giving away all of Theo’s Christmas presents!!
Seriously, though. That’d be huge. In reply to Spandemonium, I don’t think the Sox will give up Iglesias and Lowrie. I think they’ll try to deal Lowrie, but if Iglesias is the deal breaker, we’ll deal him.
I bet the deal will be Rizzo + Lowrie + Kelly + Lavernway + Doubront. Something to that effect.
I’d say yes to that deal. On both sides.
I agree, deal works for both sides.
Ellsbury, Pedroia, Crawford/Werth, AGonz, Youk, Ortiz, Saltek, Drew, Scutaro/Iglesias
Wow.
Jed obliviously wants some major league pitching if he is willingly to give away Bell to Sox in a package deal. Ellsbury/Doubrant/Rizzo/Iglesias/Miller for Bell/Gonzo imo.
But in all honestly, Red Sox just signed a boat load of free minor league agents, so the positions that they signed could foreshadow of who is on the bus to San Diego.
Miller was non-tendered and I don’t see Ells being included in the deal (at least not going to the Padres, maybe to a 3rd team though). If a 3rd team were to be involved, i’d be ok with that trade though (aside from Miller)
Sox would have a massive hole if they traded Ellsbury. Everyone figures that if the Sox sign Crawford, Ellsbury is on his way out. What happens in 2012, though? Cam – gone. Drew – gone. Ellsbury – gone. So we have Kalish and Crawford? That’s it. Reddick hasn’t shown much promise. Westmoreland has a long road ahead of him. Reymond Fuentes is only 19 years old, but has shown a lot of promise, but again, he’s only 19. I just don’t know who fills the gap in 2012?
Would it really be worth it to trade Ellsbury instead of saving him for a Crawford – Ellsbury – Kalish outfield? That would be an incredible OF.
Ellsbury won’t be traded, not in this deal at least. The only way Ells will be traded will be for another outfielder, but I don’t think Theo would swing two blockbuster trades in one offseason.
The Sox would probably have to go with Che-Hsuan Lin (OBP machine) barring a FA addition. That being said, I would like to see Ells stay with the team. The outfield you mentioned would be amazing (assuming Kalish lives up to the hype)
Or possibly Reymond Fuentes?
Fuentes is too far away. He’s not even close to ready for the 2012 season (He’ll be 21)
What about Daniel Nava?
I just can’t see Nava as a starter on a championship team. Not saying the Sox are or would be a championship team, but that would be the goal. Nava would make for a decent 4th OF option, especially since the starters could all cover CF is need be.
Nava was brutal defensively, had virtually no power (4 doubles, zero triples & homers in his last 70 at bats), pitchers quickly learned how to pitch to him (.185 BA, .568 OPS after the all-star break), and he doesn’t have much speed. He was a nice story when he first came up, but he is not a major league caliber player.
I like the idea of Cameron and Kalish as the 4th & 5th outfielders respectively.
The Sox wouldn’t stunt Kalish’s development by having him serve as the 5th OF. He would be playing every day at AAA.
Nava is solid, the guy was given a chance to show what he has because of injuries and proved he is a viable player, he wouldnt of even been in the majors last year yet showed he belonged.It brought his value up thats for sure.
I think it makes sense. We could replace Ellsbury with Crawford. Crawford will only make about $19M more next year. Instead of starting Iglesias, we can resign Scutaro for $6M/yr. The replacements for these two players for similar talent would be about $21M more per season PLUS the extension for AGonz will be $20M. Just not worth $21M per year to have AGonz one year sooner.
Crawford doesn’t have much experience in CF and doesn’t feel comfortable playing the position, and he also doesn’t want to bat leadoff.
That doesn’t leave him as much of a candidate to replace a CF’er/leadoff hitter.
So no one will replace Ellsbury on the team? If Ellsbury goes, Sox need an OF. KAlish could play CF but they still need a LF too.
You know I was saying it would be stupid to trade Ellsbury right?
There is one prospect nobody is mentioning…Drake Britton.
lol, yeah… That kid has a very high-ceiling.. hot damn. He looks like the second coming of Jon Lester.
Second coming of Lester? Sox must be dying to unload him for a guy coming off surgery who can easily be had by the Sox for nothing but $$ in about 12 months.
Good call. Now that you mention it, he could very well be involved given the knowledge the Padres have of the Sox system. Kid looks like he could be a stud.
I think there could be a third team involved if Bell comes to Boston. The Papelbon-to-the-Braves suggestion above makes sense. Another team that might make sense (until someone explains why not) could be the Pirates.
The hell it does. We’re not paying Papelbon the money he’d get via arb or in free agency. We’ve got our closer, and his name is Craig Kimbrel.
No one said the Braves would be paying his entire salary (although I suppose no one said that they wouldn’t be either, to be fair)
And we’re on a budget and close to the max we can spend anyways. Unless the Sox are paying him to play for us, it’s a no-go. Even then, Wren won’t move his prospects for a one-year rental closer.
Fair enough. I was just thinking that you had some quality arms to replace in Saito and Wagner. I’m not overly familiar with the Braves situation.
We do have some quality to arms to replace, but Craig Kimbrel and Jonny Venters are a pair of young studs that should be at the back-end of our bullpen for years to come. Peter Moylan is a solid groundball specialist and a steady arm we can rely on. Eric O’Flaherty has quietly become one of the better lefty relievers in baseball and can hold his own against righties. Scott Linebrink was acquired today to be a veteran mentor to Kimbrel and Venters. The other two bullpen spots will be decided by a competition between last year’s long man Christian Martinez, veteran Scott Proctor, and relief prospects Cory Gearrin and Stephen Marek, both of whom have some decent upside themselves. And Kris Medlen will come back close to the end of the year from Tommy John surgery.
On top of that, with the number of high-end pitching prospects we have, there’s very talented guys like Brandon Beachy and JJ Hoover that are likely going to have to become relievers if they want a shot at our roster.
I had been thinking that Wagner was retiring, thus freeing up almost $7M, helping to fit in Paps. I completely forgot about the deal for Uggla taking up that money.
If Kimbrel becomes the closer I will make sure his 18k/9inn end up on my fantasy baseball team.
Not saying I think it does or should happen but Theo almost seems to like paying people to play for other teams…
That’s the great thing about being GM of the Red Sox, you can screw up royally (ie: Lugo, Renteria) and still be able to get rid of your “mistake” by absorbing the cost.
Maybe the screw up was letting the MVP go in the first place.
Money? That’s the only reason I could think of. Depends how much the Sox would chip in I guess.
Trade Papelbon, Kelly, Ellsbury, Anderson and some AA schmuck or two for Bell & Gonzo contingent on Gonzo signing an extension. Then Sign Werth to play LF and split CF between Cameron & Kalish, move Youk to 3rd and voila…
I do NOT want the Sox to trade Kalish OR Iglesias.
Why would the pads wants ellsbury and papelbon, or even andserson? Ellsbury is going to demand a lot of money and has boras, and papelbon is already costing you a ton of money, he probably makes more then agon/bell combined! And as said earlier the padres have a 1st basement htey like, and would demand rizzo anyways.
Ellsbury is still under team control for 3 years. Very similar to Crawford. Trading him and replacing him with Werth would be crazy.
except Crawford has some power and an OPS higher than .700 away from Fenway
Yeah you right. Crawford is good for about 5-7 more home runs.
Ellsburys home/away splits were very similar for 2009.
Are you telling me that Crawford is worth $48M more than Ellsbury over the next three years?
you disgust me.
The Padres are probably not going to be able to afford Gonzalez or Bell in the near future what makes you think they will want Papelbon (which would be a 1 year rental around 11 million dollars), Ellsbury when they recently traded for Cameron Maybin to play CF, and Anderson who over the last few years has dropped off. The deal starts with Kelly and Rizzo and if it includes Bell with Gonzalez may end with Iglesias and another prospect whether you want it to happen or not.
This isnt playstation 3 dude, they have real people who know real talent when they see it, the “package” you just mentioned would probably net you Adrian’s left leg, here is a fun fact for you, the Padres are trading Gonzo away because they think 6.5 million is a lot of money to spend on a player, pop quiz: how much money does Papelbon make? bonus question…how long does Papelbon play in a game? see how he is eliminated? Lars Anderson is by far the worst name ever mentioned in an Adrian trade, weird how the Padres went for Rizzo and skipped right past him huh? second the AA schmuck comment is why people dont like Red Sox fans, a trade is supposed to be in sportsmanlike conditions that is supposed to address both of the teams needs, not you take my garbage and i will take your all-stars, that only happens in the video game world where i can get Albert Pujols on the Orioles for Luke Scott.
The Padres might not have a major hole in thier OF but Kalish is exactley the kind of player that Hoyer loves. Athletic and can do multiple things well….I think if it’s both Gonzo and Bell it needs to be something like:
Kalish, Iglesias, Kelly, Lavarnway, and a mid level prospect
Only Kalish is MLB ready, so I think it would cost a little bit more and that’s why Hoyer doesn’t want MLB ready talent, he can get more if he goes younger…Because by the time all these guys are finally in a Padres uniform Gonzo would have already signed an 8-year deal to stay in Boston for a while. So both sides benifit. Plus, Boston has the resources to reload thier farm system faster than the Padres do….
No. Kalish will replace Drews $15M per season next year.
Not worth it. AGonz will be a FA in 12 months and can be had for a draft pick and a large dump truck of cash.
DO NOT trade for Heath Bell!!
Offer Soriano 3/$30M and he will be signed tomorrow. Based on the contracts given to closers last season I think as low as 3/$24M is fair. Even if you have to over pay…you keep your young CHEAP talent in the system.
DO NOT give up the farm for AGonz!!
I absolutely want this guy in a Sox uniform…in 2012. Like AGonz already knows, Boston will be the only team offering Tex like contracts next offseason. AGonz, Fielder and 1% chance Pujols will be free agents. There are quite a few stop gap options for 2011. Plus AGonz just had surgery, no hurt in giving him time to heal and making sure he is the same guy before decimating your farm system.
I know people will rip me apart about this. I’m a Red Sox fan and want these two players as much as the next guy BUT we can have it all if we wait just one year.
Say the Sox do not trade for Gonzalez then he gets traded somewhere else and signs the big extension. There goes signing him in 2012 without giving up prospects.
Find a team that will offer AGonz the same deal that Tex got. Why would AGonz settle for less when he knows the Sox have a lottery size check sitting in their office with his name on it.
Plus Fielder is a fallback option to play 1B.
Or Pujols…
Not if someone else trades for him and signs him to an extension.
Tell me a team that will give up top prospects for AGonz, then extend him for 7/$140-$154
Angles and Cubs are the first teams to come to mind
Also, as much as I love Soriano, I can’t see him taking a non-closing job.
If Sox got Soriano, Papelbon would be traded. Bard would pitch in 8th.
Tell me a team that will give up 2 top prospects for Paps? Because that’s what the Sox would be giving up on if they didn’t hold onto him for this season.
You obviously haven’t read this entire thread.
Papelbon with get 2 first round level guys back if the Sox chip in a couple mil to get him down to market value. Papelbon having two firsts attached to him helps his value tremendously.
And you obviously hadn’t read the other postings on mlbtraderumors when you asked me who else could look to trade for AGon. I’ve been on this thread since the start, maybe you should read the whole thread.
I find it great that you can’t handle it when someone turns your own question around to you though.
Jonathan Papelbon for Mike Napoli and Juan Rivera
I don’t even see why the Red Sox would make this deal. Sign a one year rental 1B for 2011 in Adam LaRoche/Derrek Lee/Jorge Cantu and be patient and wait. Gonzalez is a free agent after the 2011 season and the only team that will pay him Texiara type money is the Red Sox; not to mention I’m sure he wants to play for Boston anyway. Save your farm system and especially hold on to Iglesias because that kid is a flat out stud with the glove, future gold glove winner I’d say.
Plus, why overspend on Heath Bell when you have Daniel Bard just waiting for the opportunity in 2012? I just think since they have the funds to do so, wait a year and then go get Gonzalez while keeping that farm system full of high prospects.
There are a couple players I don’t think make sense to trade in an AGonz deal.
Ellsbury – Pretty comparable to Crawford. Crawford is looking for a 7/$140M type deal. Ellsbury is basically on a 3/$12M deal. I think I will stick with Jacoby. I actually want Crawford and would like to see Crawford/Ellsbury/Drew in 2011, Crawford/Ellsbury/Kalish in 2012. I just wouldn’t give up a young talent to have to replace him with a $15-20M/yr FA. Now AGOnz is essentially costing $36M a year when he signs his new deal.
Papelbon – I want to trade Papelbon. I wanted to trade Papelbon before last season. I don’t like his attitude and he is only a shell of the lights out guy he used to be. If you trade him, you are also giving up 2 first round picks as well. If traded, I would like to see two first round pick talent back in return. Sox may need to chip in $3-5M to get him to market rate. I wouldn’t mind giving up a couple of top prospects for AGonz if proper compensation was returned for Papelbon. If you can’t get the same comp back that you would when he leaves for FA , then it’s not worth trading him.
honestly couldnt have said it better
Jonathan Papelbon to another team for 2 top prospects and a Major League ready talent reliever or utility player
Marco Scutaro, Anthony Rizzo, Casey Kelly, Junichi Tazawa, Josh Reddick and one prospect acquired in Papelbon trade for Bell and Gonzo
lol Johnathan Papelbon isn’t work 1 top prospect. No one wants to pay relievers 11million dollars unless its Mariano Rivera, even if he does bounce back.
Then the Sox keep him and get two first round picks next year.
I’m sure SD would jump all over this. Scutaro?
This is a completely off the wall idea, but, trading Youk away for prospects, use those prospects plus Kelly/Rizzo to get Adrian Gonzalez from SD, and sign Beltre to 4 years while grooming Vitek to take over third.
why not just keep youk at first and third. his versatility and hitting are better than bell-tray.
Youkilis has a relatively team friendly extension with 2 or 3 more years on it so there is some value to be had, Beltre is lights out at 3rd and with the Adrians providing stellar defense at the corners that only helps your pitchers. Again it’s a crazy off the wall idea
I agree, it is completely off the wall
Ummm I’d take Youk and his contract over AGonz and the contract he will get.
Prospects on top, absolutely not. Youk is worth the same if not more on the open market. Similar numbers, team friendly deal.
I want to throw this out there too, Red Sox fans, yes he built up his value but stop throwing Lavarnway’s name out there in trade proposals, you should be excited about that guy as in being your Catcher in a couple of years, he is solid and the excitement should be him starting in Fenway not him going for this guy or that.